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CNN Connie Chung Tonight

Murder Indictment Sought for Alleged Oregon Child Killer

Aired August 26, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: The DA says he'll seek a murder indictment in the case of the two missing Oregon girls.

ANNOUNCER: A heartbreaking discovery in Oregon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES MATHEWS, FBI: The Oregon state medical examiner has positively identified the remains discovered yesterday as the body of Miranda Gaddis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Now this man is the focus of the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARD WEAVER, SUSPECT: I had a lot of contact with both girls. So I expect to be looked at.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Why weren't the cases solved months ago? If it were up to his ex-wife, they would have been.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI SLOAN, FORMER WIFE OF WARD WEAVER: The FBI knew about the suspicions five months ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: New allegations against the man accused of kidnapping and murdering Samantha Runnion. Tonight: One of Alejandro Avila's co-workers says she was stalked and sexually harassed before the Runnion case.

Students caught cheating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA RUSSELL, FORMER GUIDANCE COUNSELOR: Cheaters were found to have copied word for word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: And their parents are defending them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL: Basically, somebody went to bat for them and said, "Well, it wasn't intentional."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Crisis in the classroom: Is cheating a national epidemic?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSSELL: Intentional or not, it has to be that you can't do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Let's hear it for the home team. The Louisville Sluggers, the Little League world champs, get a hometown celebration.

This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, Connie Chung.

CHUNG: Good evening.

Tonight in Oregon, the Clackamas County distract attorney's office says it will seek a murder indictment in the case of two sets of human remains found on the property of Ward Weaver. Weaver had already described himself as the primary suspect in the disappearance of two Oregon City girls, Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond, but he denied any involvement.

The two girls disappeared two months apart early this year. Weaver is currently in jail on a rape charge.

On the story in Oregon City tonight: CNN's James Hattori.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMES HATTORI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Nearly eight months after two teenage girls disappear without a trace from their Oregon City apartment complex, a weekend of intense searching yields the answers everyone wants and dreads.

MATHEWS: The Oregon state medical examiner has positively identified the remains discovered yesterday as the body of Miranda Gaddis.

HATTORI: Saturday, investigators found the remains of Miranda Gaddis' body in a shed behind a house rented by neighbor Ward Weaver; Sunday, a second set of remains, this time buried beneath a concrete slab in Weaver's backyard. They are presumed to be those of the other kidnapped girl, Ashley Pond. (on camera): Last month, Weaver, who knew both girls, even had them over to his house, told reporters police considered him a suspect in the kidnappings. But he insisted he was not involved. If he was involved, it's something of a copycat crime, Ward Weaver borrowing a page from his father's rap sheet.

(voice-over): Weaver's father, Ward Weaver Jr., is on California's death row for killing a young couple more than 20 years ago. According to court records, he beat an 18-year-old man to death, then raped and strangled the man's fiancee. He later buried the woman in the backyard of his Oroville, California, home and sealed the grave with concrete.

The prosecutor in the case tells CNN the elder Weaver, a long- haul trucker, may have been involved in up to 26 other unsolved hitchhiker murders.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: That's James Hattori's report in Oregon City.

Now, one of the people with the greatest stake in a police investigation is Terri Duffey. The remains of her niece, Miranda Gaddis, were identified yesterday. How Miranda died and what happened to her remain unclear.

Terri Duffey joins us live now from Oregon City.

Thank you, Terri, for being with us. We appreciate it.

Terri, what have the police and the FBI told you regarding this investigation?

TERRI DUFFEY, AUNT OF MIRANDA GADDIS: They haven't really told us anything, other than the same things they've told you guys. We happened to know about the remains being found maybe a half-an-hour before the press release and about knowing that they were Miranda's remains about a half-an-hour before the press release also.

CHUNG: And have they told you the status of Ward Weaver, whether he'll be charged with murder, because he is the prime suspect?

DUFFEY: Actually, I had not heard anything about it until I heard the press release today about it also.

CHUNG: I see.

Michelle, your sister, was, of course, told that the remains that were found did belong to her daughter. Can you tell us how she's coping and how the rest of the family is coping?

DUFFEY: We're taking it a little at a time. There is not really any words to describe how we're feeling. There is roller-coasters of emotions. We want to blame, but we don't know who to blame. We want to yell and scream, but there is no point. We want to hold and touch Miranda again and we can't. And it's just an extremely emotional, difficult time. When they said they found the first remains, it's kind of like you knew that it might be one of the girls. But when you actually hear the words, it's a completely different world.

CHUNG: Yes. I can imagine, Terri.

Do you and your family think that investigators should have moved more quickly?

DUFFEY: No.

I mean, we don't know the details of what evidence they had before, what they needed to be on that property. And, for whatever reason, it took them this long to get here. And we're confident in them and the FBI and the detectives and the police department here. And we continue to support whatever decisions they choose to make.

CHUNG: Terri, you're probably aware that -- just a few weeks ago, I talked to Kristi Sloan. And she's the ex-wife of Ward Weaver. And she said that she had told the FBI five months ago to look into the backyard of Ward Weaver.

And she said that there was a concrete slab there and he was putting in a hot tub. And this was in the middle of winter. She's actually very angry that the investigators did not dig up the backyard five months ago. How do you and your family and your sister Michelle in particular feel about that? Are you also angry?

DUFFEY: In the beginning, in the initial shock of knowing that your child is gone, I'm sure there is a lot anger. And it's really easy to blame the immediate people, which would be the detectives and the FBI.

But, like I said, we don't know what laws they have to go through and what rules they have to follow to be able to. And I know that she has said that she told them that. And I'm not saying -- maybe they did listen to her. But they just can't just start digging in the back of somebody's backyard just because somebody tells them too, you know?

We have to trust that they did what they could to get to the backyard as fast as they could.

CHUNG: Sure.

I remember your sister telling me that Miranda would never get into the car of a stranger, but that it may be very possible that she would get into Ward Weaver's car, because she knew him. Is it your belief that Ward Weaver may very well be the person who abducted your niece?

DUFFEY: Yes.

She was good friends with his daughter. I can -- if he could have said that his daughter was hurt or any number of things to get her in his car or in his house right here at the top of the driveway.

CHUNG: And, Terri, and take it one...

DUFFEY: And she probably went ahead and went.

CHUNG: And one step further, do you believe and does your sister believe that Ward Weaver may, allegedly, have killed Miranda?

DUFFEY: We don't know what evidence they have against him. And I guess that, at this point in the grieving stage, we don't want to think about her being dead. Even still, it's even difficult to think about now.

But they're found in his backyard. The evidence is pointing to that. So, as far as we know, yes. And they have decided to go after an indictment for him, so, yes.

CHUNG: All right.

Terri, I know, in this hour of grief for you and your family, it's so difficult, but tell us just a little bit about Miranda before I say goodbye to you.

DUFFEY: Well, I'm still waiting for her to come running up and say: "What is everybody crying for? I'm right here," laughing, giggling, making jokes, funny faces, whatever to make us feel better. And I guess those are the memories we keep in our mind of her right now.

She had beautiful dreams and a beautiful heart. And we're sick that she's not able to follow those through. But we hope that, through us and our children, we can do what we can to live with her in us.

CHUNG: Yes.

OK, Terri Duffey, thank you so much for being with us. And please give our regrets to your family and particularly Michelle and her other sisters.

DUFFEY: Thank you.

CHUNG: Bye-bye.

DUFFEY: Absolutely. Thank you.

CHUNG: Not only did this weekend's discoveries come almost eight months after the first disappearance, but police had gotten tips about Weaver well before the search.

His son Francis, whose girlfriend claims Weaver raped her, told police that his father told him that he killed the two girls. And Weaver's ex-wife appeared on this program two weeks ago, as we said, and said she told police to look in Weaver's backyard.

I spoke with her again early tonight. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: Joining me now from Portland, Oregon, is Kristi Sloan, ex-wife of Ward Weaver.

Kristi, the last time we talked, you told us that you had called the FBI. You met with them and told them that they should look in Ward Weaver's backyard. And now the authorities have found two sets of remains in the backyard of Ward Weaver's home. When you found that out, what did you think?

SLOAN: I was disgusted, really disgusted and frustrated with the FBI that this could have been taken care of five months ago.

CHUNG: Do you really believe that Ward Weaver buried those girls in the backyard?

SLOAN: Yes, I do. There is no doubt.

CHUNG: What made you suspicious in the first place that you would call the FBI and signal them to Ward Weaver's backyard?

SLOAN: What made me suspicious is, three days after the second girl, Miranda, came up missing, there was a hole dug and filled with cement, the concrete slab along the backside of the house. And he said it was for a hot tub.

CHUNG: Now, Kristi, when I talked to you on Saturday night, you were so upset. Why were you so upset?

SLOAN: The first remains were found in the back shed. We had no idea that that's where one of the bodies would be found. And we just found out today or yesterday that it was the remains of the second girl that came up missing.

CHUNG: Miranda Gaddis.

SLOAN: Correct.

I was hoping, in a way, that they would be found, so the family would have closure. But I was hoping, in a way, too, that they wouldn't be found, hoping that they would still be alive.

CHUNG: I know that just the thoughts were racing through your mind. What were you thinking?

SLOAN: If only people would have listened to me five months ago and tried to understand why I was so frustrated and why I was trying to get that attention on him. It's not because I'm an ex-wife and because I have hate against him.

When the first remains were found, I was hysterical. I was crying so much, I couldn't talk. My aunt is the one that drove me up to Ward Weaver's house up in Oregon City, because I could not drive. And I wanted all the news media to know my frustration with the FBI and why it has taken five months for this investigation to be cleared up.

CHUNG: When I talked to you last Saturday night, you had so many what-ifs in your head and in your mind. What was going through your mind, knowing that the remains of two individuals were found in that backyard?

SLOAN: Somebody does not become a killer at the age of 39. So, it makes me wonder if he has killed anybody else or if any other people's children has been victims of his alleged abuse, sex abuse.

CHUNG: Are there a lot of what-ifs?

SLOAN: There are more what-ifs than anything.

What if they would have taken Ashley's allegations of sex abuse against Ward? Would they have checked into it a little bit more? And would he be in jail before these two girls came up missing? What if, when Miranda came up missing, and I reported that concrete slab, would they have dug it up a little bit faster?

CHUNG: Do you know why authorities finally did go into that backyard and dig it up?

SLOAN: There has been no say, but I honestly feel, deep down in my heart, that Ward confessed.

CHUNG: Why do you believe that?

SLOAN: On Friday night at 11:20, there was an FBI news conference stating that they have got the proper authority to search the property.

Pieces of cyclone fencing went up right then around the house and tarped off the back concrete slab and then tarped off the back shed. And they went right to the shed on Saturday morning, when they started searching. And that's where the first remains were found. And then, yesterday, when they dug up the concrete slab, the second remains of a body were found.

CHUNG: Kristi, what is so eerie that is Ward's Weaver's father is on death row for committing a crime not unlike the one that's being described that Ward Weaver might be accused of. And that is, Ward Weaver is on death row for killing a girl and burying her in his backyard.

What do about know about your former father-in-law?

SLOAN: Ward told me about his father and what he did. He was a truck driver. And there was a young guy that was 18 years old with his girlfriend, that was in her early 20s, that were broken down. And he stopped on the side of the road to pick them up.

He, the 18-year-old male, was a cadet. I believe he shot him there and took his girlfriend and kept her for two days, while he continually raped her and then killed her. I believe he buried them in the desert and then, six months later, went back and got her remains, and then buried her under a concrete slab in his backyard.

CHUNG: All right, you were really angry when I was talking to you on Saturday. Can you express really whom you blame for not being able to find these remains until now?

SLOAN: I blame the FBI and the Oregon City Police Department -- and not specifically the Oregon City Police Department, but really the FBI. I really feel that there are certain areas that they didn't go through with that they should have.

CHUNG: Kristi, the families of these two girls do not seem to be upset about the pace of the investigation. What do you make of that?

SLOAN: I don't -- I can't speak on their part. I've never met either of them. And my condolences and my thought and prayers really go out to the mothers. And I'm really glad that at least one of them finally has closure.

They're probably happy that at least Miranda for sure that we know of has been found and that could be laid to rest now. I can't say what they feel and what I feel, because we're on two different standpoints here. I'm just really frustrated, because I feel that this is something that should have been taken care of five months ago and that these mothers should have had closure five months ago.

But if they're happy with how the search went, then I'm happy for them, too. But I'm still frustrated on my part.

CHUNG: All right, thank you so much, Kristi. We appreciate your being with us.

SLOAN: Thank you, Connie.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: We should note, in the news conference tonight, the Oregon City police said they searched the property of Ward Weaver as soon as they were legally entitled to.

When we come back: What kind of person could kill two young girls? If Ward Weaver actually is a killer, could his father's history have had an influence on him? -- right after this.

ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: the man charged in the Samantha Runnion case now accused by a former co-worker of sexual harassment.

CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: As one family waits for identification of remains, another question is also unanswered. What kind of person would commit this crime? And what does it mean that the lead suspect's father is a convicted killer as well?

Joining us now from Washington is criminal profiler Pat Brown, CEO of Sexual Homicide Exchange.

Pat, thank you for being with us.

PAT BROWN, CEO, SEXUAL HOMICIDE EXCHANGE: Good evening.

CHUNG: Ward Weaver is a primary suspect. He's not been charged in connection with these killings at all. But he apparently gave permission to authorities to search his backyard. Does this make sense?

BROWN: Well, my guess is, he gave authority at the point he knew he was already losing the battle.

A lot of time, serial killers, when they know they've lost the game, want to be in control of the game and play it out for the rest of the way, so they can be in charge. And I think this is what happened in the case. He didn't give himself up. He just knew he had already lost the game.

CHUNG: Well, if indeed Ward Weaver, allegedly, was involved in these killings, and indeed buried these girls in his backyard, is that unusual that these were in his own backyard, right next to his house?

BROWN: Well, actually, a lot of killers have buried bodies in the yard. And they think it's smart, because if you can't get a search warrant, you can't find on their property to find the bodies.

What they're worried about is, if they drop the bodies off in the woods, for example, a hiker or someone walking their dog is going to stumble upon the bodies and that will catch them. So, they think, "Oh, I'll put them in my backyard and I'll take care of them." Again, "I can control the situation."

In this case, his daddy did the same thing and it didn't seem to work too well for dad. So you kind of wonder why he didn't learn from that mistake. But apparently...

CHUNG: Well, you're right.

Yes, his father was convicted of killing a woman and a man, and buried the woman in his backyard as well. And it was the son of the current suspect, Ward Weaver, who reported to police in the first place that his father told him that he had killed these two girls. Now, that son indeed may be concerned about any genetic component.

I'm sure you've probably done studies and seen studies on the question of whether or not murder might be genetic.

BROWN: I don't buy the genetic murder theory at all. I think that would be like saying every one of us turns out exactly like our parents. And we don't. We have choices in life.

But what does happen is, parents are a great influence on lives naturally. We grow up in the environment with our parents. We gain a lot of our behaviors from them, through watching them and seeing how they work for them. And that, along with your own personality and your decisions in life, is what makes you -- can make you a serial killer. So, no, I wouldn't say there's anything genetic. But Ward Weaver's son, hopefully, has learned the opposite from his father and from his grandfather that this is not the way to treat people, and he wouldn't do any such thing like this in his future.

And he could turn out to be the exact opposite of his father, if he chooses to do so.

CHUNG: Well, that's apparently what people who know him say that he feels, certainly, that one can make choices and that he's determined to bring back the family name.

BROWN: Absolutely.

CHUNG: Now, the cause of death might be difficult, I would assume, for these two girls, because they've been buried so long. Or is that a misconception?

BROWN: Well, it all depends exactly how they died, whether it was a strangulation that might show some damage in the neck area, or whether it was stab wounds that could have nicked a bone or something like that. It may be difficult to determine, but there might, again, be some signs of what actually caused their deaths.

CHUNG: All right, Pat Brown, thank you so much for being with us.

And coming up: an unusual twist in another case involving a missing girl.

We'll be right back.

ANNOUNCER: Coming up: a student cheating scandal in Kansas. Is cheating a national epidemic?

CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Serial killer John Wayne Gacy was caught in 1978 when detectives noticed a foul odor in his home outside Chicago. They were investigating a single young man's disappearance and had no idea just what they had stumbled on to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 1978)

LARRY RODERICK, WGN REPORTER: Investigators know there are bodies or parts of bodies still to be dug out of this muddy crawlspace on West Summerdale.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: All told, investigators found 27 bodies under his home, two more buried on the property, and four dumped in nearby rivers. Between 1972 and 1978, Gacy had lured 33 men and boys to his home and killed them all. Some of them were never identified. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 1994)

BILL KUNKLE, COOK COUNTY PROSECUTOR: We're happy to report to the victims' family and to the hundreds of people that his horror reached out to and whose lives were affected for all time, that he is dead. He got his just-desserts punishment. And justice has finally been served.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Gacy was executed in 1994, but he left behind hundreds of jailhouse paintings and drawings. What happened to them and to the notorious clown suits Gacy wore to entertain local youngsters?

The answer when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Serial killer John Wayne Gacy was executed in 1994. But what happened to his many paintings and the clown suits he wore to make local kids laugh? Gacy painted everything, from clowns to Disney characters, to Jesus Christ. Memorabilia hunters sought them out, but at a protest shortly after Gacy's execution, many of them were torched in a bonfire.

As for his clown suits, Jonathan Davis, the leader singer of Korn, bought the Pogo the Clown suit and more to exhibit in a serial killer museum.

CHUNG: We'll continue now.

(NEWS BREAK)

CHUNG: Still ahead: America's Little League world champion safe at home.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: The man accused of killing and sexually molesting 5-year- old Samantha Runnion is now being accused of sexual harassment at his old job.

Alejandro Avila has pleaded not guilty to kidnapping, molesting and killing Samantha. Now a lawsuit filed by a former co-worker Gwendolyn Green claims that Avila repeatedly harassed her with comments and inappropriate contact. Avila's attorney did not return calls for comment. Green is also suing the company, Guidant Corporation. The company has denied any wrongdoing, but tonight declined our request for further comment.

And joining me now from Los Angeles with details of Green's claims is her lawyer, Neville Johnson.

Mr. Johnson, thank you for being with us.

NEVILLE JOHNSON, ATTORNEY FOR GWENDOLYN GREEN: Thank you.

CHUNG: Tell us, how did Gwendolyn Green know Alejandro Avila?

N. JOHNSON: He worked on an assembly line with her. They made catheters together.

CHUNG: And she claims that he only not sexually harassed her, but even stalked her. What exactly did he do, according to your client?

N. JOHNSON: Over a five-month period, he habitually made extremely lewd comments to her that she repeatedly complained about to the company. And, on one occasion, at 4:00 in the morning, she believes that she was stalked by him in his automobile.

CHUNG: That's when she was leaving work? Is that correct?

N. JOHNSON: Leaving work, right.

CHUNG: Now, when she complained to the company, what was the response?

N. JOHNSON: The allegations of the complaint are that they basically did nothing. They just wanted to, more or less, sweep it under the rug, and told her, "You should try and get along with him."

And, at one point, she asked that he be moved away from the line. He was actually moved literally next to her. And she says, on that day, and more than one day: "I said: 'I have to go home. I can't be near this person.'"

CHUNG: I understand she also complained to human resources and discovered that there were other complaints against Avila as well. And what happened?

N. JOHNSON: Well, that's our understanding, is that there were other complaints about him. And she's saying simply that, despite her repeated protestations, nothing happened.

CHUNG: Well, was this type of harassment -- did she feel it was really crossing the line or was she just being -- as you well know, in these sexual harassment cases, was she just being sensitive?

N. JOHNSON: Look, it would gross anybody out to even have to repeat the stuff that was said to her. It was absolutely horrible. And there was offensive touching as well, according to her.

CHUNG: When Avila was finally arrested for the Samantha Runnion case in connection with her murder and kidnapping, that is apparently when your client quit her job and filed the lawsuit. Why did she take so long to do so? Why didn't she just immediately quit her job and file this lawsuit?

N. JOHNSON: Well, I'm sure you understand, there's a lot of people who have jobs, and they want to keep their jobs. And they just try and take it as long as they can. After she complained about him then and had told him, "I've made notes," she's saying that, when she would write a note just for her work on the assembly line, they would say: "What are doing? Why are you writing that?" And, basically, the straw that broke the camel's back is that she was asking for a shift change to go on the night shift, which we understand was not attractive to most people, and they just sat on it for months and months, and repeatedly said, "Aren't you going to quit?"

CHUNG: So, can you say if her lawsuit is, in any way, connected to the fact that he was charged with murder? In other words, was that, essentially, also an impetus for her to file the lawsuit?

N. JOHNSON: I don't think it was the precipitating factor. It is certainly a factor. But the bottom line is that work ultimately became intolerable for her. And that's what it's about.

CHUNG: And what was that factor? You're saying that it was a contributing factor?

N. JOHNSON: It was a contributing factor, sure.

CHUNG: In what way?

N. JOHNSON: Well, they totally have disrespected her from -- is what she's saying. They've just totally disrespected her. And when she wanted to make a reasonable accommodation most lately, they have just refused to do that.

CHUNG: All right, Neville Johnson, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it.

What's the next step with your -- with the lawsuit?

N. JOHNSON: Well, we'll start the discovery process and we'll see what they have to say.

Thank you.

CHUNG: All right, thank you. Appreciate it.

Again, as we said, Avila's attorney did not return calls for comments. And attorneys for Guidant declined to comment as well.

Coming up: As America's kids go back to school, are they leaving their ethics behind? Why cheating is so prevalent -- right after this.

ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: The Little League world championship returns to the U.S., an emotional homecoming -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Tonight, we begin our series "Crisis in the Classroom" with a question: As you send your kids back to school, what is more important: learning or good grades?

Teachers report mounting pressure to give good grades. And, as a growing percentage of kids head to college, grade competition is fierce. That may explain, partly anyway, why a survey last year found three out of four high-schoolers cheated on at least one test.

We are going to hear from the man who took that survey and from an educator who took a stand.

First, CNN's Jeff Flock puts one notorious instance of cheating in focus.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LAURA JOHNSON, HIGH SCHOOL STUDENT: This is my lease.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Laura Johnson is not a cheater.

L. JOHNSON: This is my bibliography.

FLOCK: When she used outside information on her sophomore botany project, she credited it.

L. JOHNSON: My grade was 101 percent, an A-plus.

FLOCK: But some of her classmates here at Piper High School outside Kansas City apparently plagiarized their projects. When their teacher, who warned the students and teachers they would get zeros if they cheated, tried to fail them, the parents went to the school board. And the superintendent made teacher Christine Pelton change the grades.

Pelton quit. So did nearly a third of the staff in protest.

RUSSELL: It has to be that you can't do that.

FLOCK: Guidance counselor Linda Russell was one of those who resigned. She showed us her scrapbook of all the headlines, a newspaper cartoon depicting the school board as worms, and a letter addressed "to the home of the cheaters." "Fax your list of students so we'll be sure not to hire these future crooks," it said.

RUSSELL: Yes, they may have gotten by with something at this point. But, at some point in life, those consequences are going to be there for them. And many times, later, they're much more severe.

FLOCK: We couldn't find a student accused of plagiarism who wanted to go on television. But one family told us off camera it was never proved their child cheated. And they challenged the Web site TurnItIn.com that the teacher said proved plagiarism.

Now in the midst of a difficult pregnancy, Pelton is refusing interview requests. Hollywood is pursuing her story. And she's agreed to eventually tell it. Meantime, just this month, the Piper superintendent resigned under fire and members of school board said to support the grade change face recall.

LEONA SIGWING, TEACHER, PIPER HIGH SCHOOL: We don't want to be represented by people who won't do what's right when it's hard.

FLOCK: Teachers Association President Leona Sigwing points to a tough new plagiarism policy at the school as something positive, but says everyone has been a loser in this, mostly the children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then it was affecting the students when they would go in public. And that still upsets me.

FLOCK: Indeed, some are taunted as cheats. And because of the controversy, the project's impact on the overall class grade was reduced. As a result, the final grade of students like Laura Johnson went down.

L. JOHNSON: I was really angry, because I could have had a better grade. I could have had a better GPA. And the people that supposedly plagiarized, their grade went up and mine went down it.

FLOCK: It was supposed to be about botany, but ended up being a painful lesson in life.

I'm Jeff Flock, CNN, in Chicago.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: And joining me now from Kansas City, Missouri: a veteran of the Piper High School cheating scandal, former Vice Principal Terry Gerstenberger; and here with me, Rutgers Professor Donald McCabe, who founded the Center for Academic Integrity.

Thank you, gentlemen, both for being with us.

Terry, let's start with you.

I'll tell you, when I heard about this story, I was completely shocked. Now, you're an educator. You've been in education for so many years. Were you shocked?

TERRY GERSTENBERGER, FORMER VICE PRINCIPAL, PIPER H.S.: I was originally shocked at the number of students that were involved. But the fact that you find students occasionally who are actually caught at cheating wasn't particularly shocking. It's something that I've dealt with on an annual basis, not to this degree. But it's something that you have to deal with.

CHUNG: I can agree with you that the actual cheating might not be that surprising, but the result, the reaction from the parents was just extraordinary. Was that extraordinary to you?

GERSTENBERGER: I was surprised and taken aback by the level that this whole issue arose to. I was surprised by some of the approaches people took to try and solve it. I was certainly surprised by how long it's continued, and surprised by the overall magnitude of it. CHUNG: But, I mean, did you expect the lines to be drawn so clearly: that the parents would basically support the kids and ask that changes be made, and this teacher who I think all of us would agree did the right thing ended up disappearing from that school, having to leave? And you even quit your job.

GERSTENBERGER: Yes, I was surprised, again, by how big the thing got. I was surprised that there were parents who, even though we showed them exactly what the deal was, or they were shown the exact issues of plagiarism, that they decided to take the approach that they did, that it went to the board, certainly that the board decided to go ahead and make the change, and the resulting impact of that.

So, it was unusual in the sense that you saw that level of fervor attached to trying to solve what was a difficult problem.

CHUNG: All right, we'll get back to you in just a minute.

But, Professor McCabe, you've been studying cheating for more than 20 years. And what do recent surveys show you?

DONALD MCCABE, CENTER FOR ACADEMIC INTEGRITY: Well, recent surveys show that there is an awful lot of cheating going on, both at the high school and the college level.

CHUNG: More than so than before?

MCCABE: Definitely.

There's not a lot of data that talks about longitudinal trends. But what is available certainly show dramatic increases, particularly in test and examination cheating.

CHUNG: And what are the statistics that will probably shock us?

MCCABE: Well, at the high school level, we're now up to the point where basically three-quarters of the students admit at least one serious incident of cheating on a test or exam in the past year.

CHUNG: Three-quarters of high school students.

MCCABE: Exactly.

CHUNG: And?

MCCABE: And that's the number that are admitting it. I'm sure the number is actually a little bit higher than that.

If you include all forms of cheating, copying homework and things of that nature, you get very close to 100 percent. And in my most recent survey, it was 97 percent.

CHUNG: Oh, my gosh. That's horrifying. It really is.

Now, why do you think it's so prevalent? MCCABE: Well, I think, especially when you get to the less serious forms of cheating, I think it's so prevalent because students don't consider it cheating. They're quite comfortable with what they're doing. And it's everybody else's fault that they're cheating.

CHUNG: For instance? What do you mean?

MCCABE: For example, teachers giving assignments that are inappropriate, teachers who grade too hard, college admission counselors who put too much emphasis on GPAs.

CHUNG: So that's the excuse?

MCCABE: That's the excuse -- and also other students who cheat.

I personally think that's one of the major factors. You'll have a student sitting in class who will see some somebody else cheating, a teacher who elects not to do anything about it. And that student will say, "I would be foolish to sit here and be honest while they're letting that other student's GPA be higher than it should be."

CHUNG: Terry, are you aware of the fact that kids are actually saying they're not aware that this, X, Y or Z, is cheating? Did your students have that kind of reaction when accused of cheating?

GERSTENBERGER: I think most of the kids know the difference between right and wrong. Most of them, by the time they're sophomores in high school, in this particular instance, know the difference between cheating, copying, plagiarism and not.

I have a fourth-grade son who knows that he can't copy things literally out of a book or out of a magazine or whatever the case may be. And that's not to suggest that all these students did that. But I think, clearly, by the time a kid is 14, 15, 16 years old, they know the difference between right and wrong. They know how to construct their own sentence. They know not to take other people's thoughts and use them as their own. They have a pretty good idea about what's acceptable and what's not.

CHUNG: Well, then, Don, what are you talking about in terms of how oblivious these kids are?

MCCABE: I don't disagree that they understand what's right and wrong.

But what they do is find a variety of different ways to justify doing what other people might consider wrong and justify it for themselves that it's not wrong in the particular instance that they've done it.

CHUNG: I see.

One of the most fascinating parts, I think, of what you have to tell us is the connection with corporate malfeasance today. Is there a connection? And do we, as just the general public, believe that, when we see something like this at that level, that it tells the students something?

MCCABE: Well, certainly the students tell me that it tells them something.

I'm always intrigued, when I do a survey -- and I've been doing them over more than the last decade now -- and depending on when I do that survey, I can predict whose name I'm going to hear quite often. At the moment, I'm sure in a survey I'm going to be doing this fall, I'll hear Enron mentioned many times. A couple of years ago, I did a survey. I heard President Clinton's name mentioned, Donald Trump's, Michael Milken's.

So, you pick a period time and the students are something, "If people can get away with things that are that serious, and if society chooses to look the other way, what's the big deal with a little bit of cheating?"

CHUNG: Terry Gerstenberger, do you think that there is basically a problem with integrity, with honesty, with how parents bring up their children today? Is that is what's part of the problem?

GERSTENBERGER: I think really the bigger issue comes down to personal character, personal integrity, the issues of choices, accepting responsibility for those choices and the consequences therein.

I think oftentimes, in our efforts to help nurture our kids, we want do what's best for them. We want to try to protect them from getting into trouble. And in our efforts to do that, which are well- intentioned, we sometimes cross the line between allowing them to make mistakes and suffer whatever consequences for the decisions that they make and being overprotective, and, in the end, sort of, not crippling them, but putting them in a position where it's difficult for their kid to really grow and develop.

It really comes, in my view, down to the issue of personal integrity, personal responsibility, and personal choice.

CHUNG: How much responsibility should the teachers have in terms of teaching this kind of morality?

GERSTENBERGER: That's a very difficult thing.

I think teachers, by their very nature, are extremely concerned with trying to get kids to respect one another, to play within the confines of the rules of the game. They're concerned about the individual integrity of their students. And they want them to make the right choice.

But, ultimately, when you get right down to it, as much talking and preaching as you may engage in, it is going to come down to that individual making the choice to either play the game the right way or to not play the game.

CHUNG: In the last 15 seconds we have, agreed?

MCCABE: I would agree.

I would add one factor, that surveys I've done of high school teachers -- which have been somewhat limited -- but those surveys suggest that many high school teachers, because they know the reaction they're going to get from the parents if they accuse a child of cheating, elect to just let it go.

CHUNG: You mean the parents usually just stand by their child and say, "No, my son or daughter couldn't have done it"?

MCCABE: They certainly do in places around the country other than Piper, Kansas. That's for sure.

CHUNG: And there's a very small percentage that will say, "All right, my child was caught and we're going to do something about it"?

MCCABE: I think it's minority. I'm not sure it's small, but certainly I think it's the minority.

CHUNG: All right, thank you.

Don McCabe, we appreciate it.

Terry Gerstenberger, we appreciate your being with us as well.

GERSTENBERGER: Thank you.

CHUNG: And, as part of our "Crisis in the Classroom" series, we're also going to focus on some of the priceless resources to be found in America's classrooms: teachers -- some of the best according to their peers, their students, and professional associations, men and women who represent -- pardon the pun -- the best in the class, teachers who deserve recognition for the good work they do.

Each night this week, we'll introduce you to one of them. And tonight we go to Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL BERANEX, THIRD-GRADE TEACHER: What is this whole process called, again? Everyone.

CLASS: A life cycle.

CHUNG (voice-over): At Western Hills Elementary in West Des Moines, Iowa, these third-graders are learning about metamorphosis, and, at the same time, teacher Michael Beranex is imparting a far more valuable lesson.

MICHAEL BERANEX, THIRD-GRADE TEACHER: I always start out the beginning of my year with bugs and how to collect bugs. Bugs are a very interesting activity. And it helps them to understand how a life cycle works and how they fit into their world as they progress through their life cycle.

CHUNG: Beranex's classroom approach has been rewarded. He's won several awards, including being a finalist last year for the Disney's American Teacher Award. And he credits his students for providing him with the inspiration.

BERANEX: They're making me continue to be a lifelong learner. And, as I teach them to be a lifelong learners, they're giving that back to me and showing me that it's important for myself to expand my thoughts and my horizons.

CHUNG: And after 15 years of teaching, his devotion to education remains unwavered.

BERANEX: I have a strong belief that all children can succeed and it's my responsibility to find the opportunities and the path for each child in my classroom to succeed.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: A hero's welcome tonight in Louisville, Kentucky, for the baseball team that captured the Little League World Series over the weekend. The team arrived home after their 1-0 victory over a team from Japan on the strong arm of 12-year-old pitcher Aaron Alvey, who also hit a home run.

This is the first American team to win the Little League World Series since a squad from Toms River, New Jersey, took the title in 1998. And here is one elated coach.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TROY OSBORNE, LOUISVILLE MANAGER: This one sport where you're representing the whole world now. We're the World Series champs and not just United States champs. So that means a whole lot. And these guys earned every bit of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHUNG: Then it was on to the celebration, where thousands of fans had gathered at Louisville's Cardinal Stadium. These true boys of summer won't have too much time to celebrate. They all head back to school tomorrow.

Take that, you pro players, who want to strike.

Tomorrow: On the eve of Michael Skakel's sentencing for the killing of Martha Moxley, we'll have a preview.

And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Ellen Levin, whose daughter Jennifer was murdered by the so-called "Preppie Killer," Robert Chambers, 16 years ago.

Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.

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