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CNN Connie Chung Tonight
Ward Weaver's Son Speaks Out; Princess Diana's Death a Conspiracy?
Aired August 28, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: One after another, a judge threw out Michael Skakel's requests for a new trial. Now it's time for punishment.
ANNOUNCER: The Kennedy cousin, Michael Skakel, about to be sentenced to prison for the murder of Martha Moxley. Tonight, Connie asks Martha Moxley's friends, will justice be done?
His grandfather convicted of murder, his father now suspected of killing two girls in Oregon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FRANCIS WEAVER, SON OF WARD WEAVER: I wanted to believe in my heart that it wasn't my father, the person who gave me life, who brought me into this world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, Francis Weaver reveals to Connie his struggle over turning in his own father for murder.
Princess Diana: Five years after her sudden tragic death, allegations that she was killed by a conspiracy survive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMED AL-FAYED, FATHER OF DODI: The person who have executed this terrible crime is Prince Philip.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight, Mohamed Al-Fayed, whose son Dodi died with Diana, says their deaths weren't an accident.
Worker morale goes down the toilet. The Jim Beam Distillery wants to limit staff bathroom breaks. Employees at the Kentucky bourbon giant say, when you got to go, you got to go.
This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening. Michael Skakel lost every single argument his lawyers put forward seeking a new trial in the murder of Martha Moxley 27 years ago. The last-minute attempts pushed back Skakel's sentencing to tomorrow.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick has been on the story at the courthouse in Norwalk, Connecticut.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Michael Skakel headed back to a high-security prison. He had changed out of the dark suit he wore in court and back into his khaki prison uniform.
It was an emotional day for the 41-year-old Kennedy cousin, as he listened to the mother of Martha Moxley, the girl he's convicted of beating to death with a golf club, tell the judge how much she missed her child and how she felt Skakel should get the maximum sentence.
DORTHY MOXLEY, MOTHER OF MARTHA MOXLEY: We were sentenced to a life without Martha. And so I think it's just fitting that Michael is sentenced to a life without his little boy also. And he will be able to be out of jail and get back into his son's life, where Martha will never come back.
FEYERICK: Skakel choked up as Dorothy Moxley and her one surviving child, John Moxley, spoke. But Skakel's tears were heaviest when his own friends described how much of an impact he had on their lives.
DAVID BANGSBERG, FRIEND OF SKAKEL: We're dealing with a very worthy person here with a profound sense of humanity and compassion. And the Michael Skakel that I know is incapable of doing what allegedly he's being charged with.
FEYERICK: The judge received dozens of letters from Skakel's family and friends, all asking for leniency. One letter from cousin Robert Kennedy Jr. describes how Skakel, a former alcoholic, helped Kennedy get sober two decades ago.
The judge will consider the letters and statements in deciding Skakel's prison sentence. Skakel was defeated earlier in the day when the judge denied his lawyers' motions to toss out the jury's guilty verdict and get a new trial, Judge John Kavanewsky saying he was not persuaded by defense arguments.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FEYERICK: Connie, while this is a big one for prosecutors, it is not a total loss for the defense team. What they succeeded in doing today is really setting a clean record as to why they're going to appeal this case. The arguments that they felt were made that shouldn't have been made, the rulings that the judge made that they disagreed with, all of that, that is now on the record, so that they can go ahead in the coming months -- Connie.
CHUNG: Deborah, do you think there was a different feeling in the courtroom in anticipation of the sentencing?
FEYERICK: Oh, there was no question there was a different feeling in the courtroom. It was very, very tense.
When Martha Moxley's mom got up to speak, Michael's sister Julie got up and left the courtroom. And then, at one point, when one of his aunts passed John Moxley, she mumbled something and then called him a son of a -- so it was really very emotional. And John Moxley said: "We are two sides of the same coin. Both of us feel just as passionately about why we're here today and what we hope to achieve."
CHUNG: Now, I know the judge had received a good number of letters of support for Skakel asking for leniency. Can you tell us anything about those letters?
FEYERICK: The letters were all very emotional. They show how Michael Skakel changed so many different lives by being sort of a bastion of support for so many people.
But, interestingly, it also shows a family snapshot. And we haven't seen that before, at least not coming from the Skakel family. But it portrays Michael Skakel as having a horrible childhood, his father being an alcoholic. At one point, when Michael was only 6 years old, after a Christmas party, his father repeatedly kicked him while his mother tried pulling him off. The letters basically say that Michael was really the brunt of his father's rage, as was an older brother, Tommy Skakel.
CHUNG: And a quick question: Who is expected to testify tomorrow? Because there are more impact statements.
FEYERICK: Two big things happening tomorrow: We are going to hear from about three more Skakel family representatives. Possibly Michael Skakel himself will also make some sort of a statement.
But then his defense team, after the sentencing, is going to ask that Skakel be allowed out on bail. The reason for that is because of a Supreme Court ruling two weeks ago which basically said that the judge has discretion to let somebody out on bail while they're waiting for an appeal. So they're going to try that tack tomorrow.
CHUNG: All right, Deborah Feyerick, thank you so much -- Deborah in Norwalk, Connecticut.
Now, the trial, along with tomorrow's sentencing, has drawn a lot of attention. But it's also drawn together people who were still somewhere between childhood and maturity in that early fall of 1975.
Mei Versailles and Christie Kalan were best friends with Martha. Jennifer Allen was the best friend Martha had left behind when her family moved from California to Connecticut. If Martha had not been killed, Jennifer might have met Mei and Christie at Martha's wedding some day. Instead, they met for the first time during the trial of their friend's killer.
Thank you all for coming here and being with us. Jennifer, it has to be bittersweet for you, because you're meeting Martha's friends for the first time, but the reason is this trial.
JENNIFER ALLEN, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF MARTHA MOXLEY: We've all thought about that.
Like you said, we should have been meeting at her wedding or her baby shower or any number of things, not sitting on a hard bench in a courtroom watching her murder trial. That is just not the way we ever should have met.
CHUNG: Or envisioned it, huh?
ALLEN: No.
CHUNG: Christie, you heard Deborah Feyerick describe Skakel's reaction when the Moxleys were testifying, and that he kind of choked up. I have the distinct impression this is a completely different Michael Skakel that you saw today, compared with the other parts of the trial.
CHRISTIE KALAN, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF MARTHA MOXLEY: Much more subdued, I would say.
During the trial, he was animated. He was writing notes. He was making eye contact with people. And today, he was very subdued. His head was down. He did pick his head up. And I believe, if I remember correctly -- if you guys remember -- he looked straight at Dorthy when she was making her statement. But I think, the rest of the time, he pretty much had his head down. And he was very quiet. The whole defense team today was very quiet.
CHUNG: Mei, you had a distinct reaction to Michael Skakel during the trial. What was your view?
MEI VERSAILLES, CHILDHOOD FRIEND OF MARTHA MOXLEY: During the trial, as Christie said, he was much more animated. Today, you could just see his whole appearance had changed.
CHUNG: All right, let me go on to something else then. You had dinner last night with Dorthy Moxley.
VERSAILLES: Yes.
CHUNG: The mom of Martha.
And she said something that really is quite extraordinary. Tell us.
VERSAILLES: Well, we had dinner at our restaurant in Greenwich. And she...
CHUNG: Oh, you're wondering what I mean.
It's how she views her future, that she had put all of her effort into this moment, this trial, to get what she really thought she and her family and Martha deserved.
VERSAILLES: Right.
When the trial had ended, she said to me, she said, "I just don't know what I'm going to do now." And then I spoke to her a few days ago, before I saw her last night. And she said, "I just can't wait for this to be over." And it seemed like so many different -- such a different view from before.
CHUNG: So many emotions for her.
VERSAILLES: Because she's put so much into this over the years.
CHUNG: Yes.
Isn't it funny? What's so bizarre to me -- and the reason why I thought it was extraordinary -- was that she had put so much into it that it was almost like, "What am I going to do now?"
VERSAILLES: Right.
CHUNG: OK.
Jennifer, you had been in California, right, when Martha was killed. And you were only, what, 15?
ALLEN: Fifteen, yes.
CHUNG: How did you learn the news that your best friend had been murdered?
ALLEN: My parents told me. They didn't tell me that day, that day that we found out. They actually told me the next day.
They sat me down in the kitchen, mom on one side and dad on the other. And I was talking about this today. I can visualize everything. I can tell you where the sunlight was coming in. I can tell you how the curtains were drawn. I can't remember a single word that they said. After that, they told me that I went and locked myself in the bathroom for the rest of the day.
CHUNG: Oh, my goodness.
Mei, what has this done to the Skakel family, because -- I'm sorry, to the Moxley family, because you have stayed close to them? What do you think these 27 years have done to them?
VERSAILLES: Well, it's brought them together. But one thing that came up today was how sad it was that David, Mr. Moxley, never saw this.
CHUNG: Martha's father.
VERSAILLES: Yes, because they really -- everybody believes that her death really killed him. But John and Dorthy have just totally come together. And it was after David's death that they really put all their efforts into finding -- getting justice.
CHUNG: Christie, what sort of sentence do you think Michael Skakel should receive?
KALAN: The maximum sentence, 25 to life.
CHUNG: Really?
KALAN: Absolutely.
CHUNG: Why do you feel so strongly?
KALAN: Martha did absolutely nothing wrong and she received a death sentence. And he has hurt so many people. And I think it's only fair that he pays for it with a maximum sentence.
Also, parole is involved. We understand that there might be time off for good behavior and other things. And so I think he should get the maximum and cut back from there, depending on what happens with the parole board.
CHUNG: What do you think, Mei?
VERSAILLES: I have said this before, but we feel that Mickey Sherman put it best.
CHUNG: The defense lawyer he had before.
VERSAILLES: Correct.
He said he thinks that the killer, the convicted killer should rot in hell. And we think that that would be a just sentence.
CHUNG: Jennifer?
ALLEN: I also agree, maximum sentence. Justice has been delayed for 27 years. And 27 years would be a very appropriate place to start.
CHUNG: All right.
And before I leave you, I'd love for each of you to remember something special for us about Martha, something different.
Jennifer, why don't you start?
ALLEN: Oh. Martha was my best friend. And we used to do everything together.
And one of my fondest memories is, we used to go out in the neighborhood and we'd catch snakes. And we'd bring them back home to show her mom. And her mom was, like, always: "Oh, that's wonderful, girls. Now go show Mrs. Allen."
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: All right.
Christie.
KALAN: Well, I hadn't thought of this, but when you said it -- we used to go outside in the rain and catch worms.
(LAUGHTER)
KALAN: So, I'll guess I'll throw that out.
CHUNG: There you go.
Mei.
VERSAILLES: I just have great memories of all the things we did together, skiing together, basketball team together.
CHUNG: She was a California girl and she was beautiful too, wasn't she?
VERSAILLES: Yes.
CHUNG: Had a lot of boyfriends.
Well, I thank you so much for being with us. And, tomorrow, you'll be at the sentencing, won't you?
VERSAILLES: Yes, I will.
ALLEN: We're looking forward to it.
CHUNG: Yes. Oh, I can imagine. It sort of gives me chills, though, I have to tell you.
When we come back: A father claims his son was murdered by the British royal family to stop him from marrying Princess Diana. We'll hear from Mohamed Al-Fayed in a surprising interview -- coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Five ago, the nation watched another long-delayed trial of a once-young man. Alex Kelly had been an 18-year-old wrestling star at Darien High School in Connecticut. Then two teenage girls came forward with similar stories: He had raped them just days apart in the backseat of a car.
Just days before his trial, Alex Kelly fled the country. Officials said that his wealthy parents helped finance his run from the law, as he spent the next eight years skiing and hang-gliding his way among Europe's jet set. Then, in 1994, one of his alleged victims hired a private detective to track him down. He turned himself in to Swiss authorities the next year and returned to the United States.
What was the ultimate fate of fugitive Alex Kelly? The answer when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: He's accused of rape and suspected of murdering two girls in Oregon. And now the investigations into Ward Weaver are widening. Prosecutors are already seeking to indict him for the murders of Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond, the two girls whose remains were found at Weaver's home over the weekend.
Now police in Northern California and elsewhere are reviewing past cases to determine if Weaver might be involved. Weaver is being held on charges he raped his own son's girlfriend. Today, it was revealed that a teenage relative of the girlfriend claimed she too was sexually abused by Weaver.
Weaver's son Francis, who turned his father in to police, came to New York at our request with his girlfriend. She declined to be interviewed. And though he declined to discuss the newest allegations when I spoke to him earlier, he said he does believe his father is a murderer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Francis, do you believe that your father killed Ashley and Miranda?
FRANCIS WEAVER, SAYS FATHER WARD IS GUILTY OF MURDER/RAPE: Yes, I do, without a doubt at all. I do believe that he did.
CHUNG: Why are you so sure?
WEAVER: From the beginning, I always had a doubt. You know, I shouldn't have had any doubt at all.
CHUNG: You had doubt about what?
WEAVER: Doubt that he didn't do it.
CHUNG: That he didn't do it?
You mean, you actually suspected that he might have been involved?
WEAVER: Yes. And I wondered, you know, why I could think that and stuff. But it was because of how I was treated and, you know, the things that I've seen my father do.
CHUNG: What do you mean when you say, the things you've seen your father do?
WEAVER: The abuse against my mother, you know, a supposed woman that he loved. You know, just the abuse that he, and anger and hatred he showed towards my mother, towards me, towards my younger brothers.
CHUNG: You thought to yourself that maybe your father was involved. But when did it come to a head that you were convinced?
WEAVER: When he did what he had done to my girlfriend, because I just -- you know, I knew if he could do something that sick, you know, that really all my (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in my mind was washed away. You know, any of my doubt that I had. Even though it was imprinted in my mind that, you know, he was the one.
CHUNG: All of this emerged because your girlfriend was attacked by your father and you then called 911 and got the police.
What did your girlfriend tell you that your father had done?
WEAVER: Your father raped me and tried to kill me.
CHUNG: Do you have any idea of what might have been going through your father's head?
WEAVER: I don't. Like I keep trying to, like, you know, comprehend how he could think like that and anything, but I don't even want in any way to try to understand. You know, I think normal people like us, you know, with hearts, just can't -- we couldn't even contemplate something like that. I don't know how to even understand how someone can do that.
CHUNG: So when you actually told the police that you thought your father did kill these two girls, there had to be a terrible conflict going on inside you.
WEAVER: There was.
CHUNG: Can you describe that?
WEAVER: It was kind of like I was torn between just everything, you know, between not wanting it to be my dad, not wanting it to be the person who I -- that people, you know, as a society we look up to. Boys look up to their fathers, you know. That's their, like, role model, that's the person that they look up to.
And I remember just growing up, I've always had to, like, try to make my dad look better than he really was. You know, like just -- he really wasn't that great of a father at all, ever.
CHUNG: Have you spoken to your father since he was arrested?
WEAVER: No, I haven't.
CHUNG: Do you have any desire to do so?
WEAVER: Not really, I don't.
CHUNG: Do you intend to testify against your father if, indeed, he is formally charged and goes to trial?
WEAVER: Most definitely, you know, if I need to -- if they don't have enough evidence, the FBI and the detectives, to put my father away and they need my testimony, then, yes, I will, by all means, testify.
CHUNG: By all means? WEAVER: Yes.
CHUNG: That would be very difficult, though, would it not?
WEAVER: Yes, it will be really difficult. But like I said, we can't let people like that back out on the streets.
Your grandfather apparently killed two people, at least, and is on death row for those murders. I'm sure that you see the eerie similarities between the crime that your grandfather committed and the one that your father is accused of.
WEAVER: Yes, almost as though as it's like a copycat, you know? Like he was trying to prove to his father something, like he could do it and get away with it or, you know, just -- or even -- I don't know what he was thinking. I don't know why he would do that, why he did the way he did it the way he did it.
All I do know is that, you know, he wasn't going to stop.
CHUNG: Why do you believe that?
WEAVER: Because with my girlfriend, you know, he didn't just attack her, he was actually trying to -- he was going to kill her.
CHUNG: Is there something that you want everyone to know out there?
WEAVER: Yes, there is. I'd like to ask everyone, you know, all the people who are good-hearted people, and even the people who aren't, you know, the ignorant people who would say things like they do, a lot of people have, you know, been ridiculing my younger brothers and saying, you know, murderers, you guys are freaks like your father, stuff like that while they're walking down the street with their girlfriends or while they're walking to the store to get something to eat. And I would like people to not, you know, feed into that ignorance and, you know, to use their brain a little bit more and think.
CHUNG: Why did you turn your dad in? Is there something that you wanted for the families?
WEAVER: I turned him in because once, like I said, what had happened with my girlfriend, all the denial, all the -- you know, everything that I had built up that was saying, it wasn't my dad, it couldn't have been, even after what I knew, you know, no, no, it wasn't him, please Lord, you know; you know, my dad's not that sick. He can't be that sick, you know.
And once I knew that he really was, you know, it's just that I didn't want those girls -- those girls had to be properly buried. You know, I didn't want to -- I didn't want their families to have to go through life always wondering, you know, what happened with their daughters, still having that hope, well maybe they'll come back, you know? Maybe they just ran away.
You know, I needed them to have the closure.
CHUNG: Do you still love your father?
WEAVER: I do have love in my heart, but I can't really have any feelings for -- I love who my father was. I love, like, you asked me, do I still love my father now?
No, I don't love my father. You know, after -- I can't love him, because it's not my father.
My father, I try to think of as all those good times, you know, just those little good things that he had done for me and for my brothers and stuff. And I try to dwell on those things instead of all the bad things, you know?
CHUNG: Does your girlfriend have anything that she wants to say through you?
WEAVER: Just that, you know, she couldn't believe that he would try to do something, you know, so evil. That she even said, you know, in his face that it was like he was possessed, you know, that it wasn't him, that it was just -- I don't know.
CHUNG: Are you going to be OK?
WEAVER: Yes, I'm going to be fine. I'm going to be OK.
I just, you know, I want to just, like I've tried to stress a lot is give my love and my family's love to the families of those girls, to Ashley and Miranda's families.
CHUNG: Francis, thank you so much. I really appreciate talking to you and I'm so glad to meet you.
WEAVER: Well, thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: My interview earlier tonight with Francis Weaver.
Although prosecutors are seeking to indict Weaver for the deaths of Miranda Gaddis and Ashley Pond, he has not been charged and remains only a suspect.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: A bourbon bottler bathroom break brouhaha. Can an employer restrict when workers can go to the toilet?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT continues in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: We'll continue.
(NEWS BREAK) CHUNG: Still ahead: Would anyone have the audacity to tell you when to go to the bathroom? Well, we know a company that actually did that to its employees. You're not going to believe it.
ANNOUNCER: Next: accusations that the British royal family, U.K., French and U.S. intelligence agencies conspired to assassinate Princess Diana.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL-FAYED: They have murdered them, unfortunately.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: August 31, 1997: It was five years ago that a Mercedes roaring through a Paris tunnel slammed into a pillar, killing its driver and two passengers, Dodi Al-Fayed and Diana, princess of Wales. French judges have ruled the crash an accident fueled by driver Henri Paul's speeding and the alcohol and anti-depressants in his blood.
But Al-Fayed's father, Harrods owner Mohamed Al-Fayed, to this day claims it was no accident, but a conspiracy led by England's Prince Philip, involving British and French intelligence agencies and possibly the cooperation of U.S. intelligence. Why? To prevent his Muslim son from becoming stepfather to the future king of England, Prince William.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Mohamed Al-Fayed joins me now from London.
Thank you for being with us.
Let's start with the happy times, before the accident occurred. Can you describe the relationship that your son Dodi had with Diana?
MOHAMED AL-FAYED, FATHER OF DODI AL-FAYED: It was a beautiful relationship, just two beautiful persons with the most beautiful love story you can ever see or you can ever watch between two people, with extreme affection to each other, extreme happiness.
As you know, Diana was married for 20 years, suffered a lot during her marriage. We just can't believe that the day she starts to see the light and see that God has blessed her with a person who can compensate all the suffering she had gone through during her terrible marriage, it's just something you can't imagine. And the time she had spent with me and with my family in my summer place in France, you can imagine the pleasure she gave to my family and also to my children, especially she have two kids with her, Prince Harry and Prince William.
Unfortunately, when they saw this happen, the royal family, especially Prince Philip, and they understand that this is going to be a serious relationship, they have murdered them, unfortunately. And the person who have executed this terrible crime is Prince Philip.
CHUNG: Mr. Al-Fayed, that is a shocking accusation. And I know you believe it quite strongly.
The French inquisition found that the cause of the accident was indeed a combination of alcohol and drugs and the fact that the driver lost control of the car. But you claim and you believe so strongly that it was Prince Philip, in a conspiracy, who ordered the murder of Dodi and Diana.
AL-FAYED: That's true. And this is 100 percent, I'm certain of that.
He will not accept my son with different religion, Egyptian, with different culture can be connected with the royal family.
CHUNG: You're saying that Prince Philip knew that Dodi and Diana were going to get married.
AL-FAYED: Definitely. And Diana herself told the press openly -- and the surprise that she was pregnant, right.
CHUNG: Were you able to verify the fact that Princess Diana was pregnant?
AL-FAYED: It is well known. It is all documented in the hospital.
One thing, just to prove to you: Why they mummify Diana's body before she left the hospital in Paris? They removed all her organs because they don't want her to come to London. When she arrived, she had to see the British coroner to do her autopsy. And they don't want to have any proof in her body that she is pregnant. Why did they do that? Only that the flying time is 50 minutes, one hour from Paris to London. There was no need at all to mummify her body.
CHUNG: You said that Diana was so happy with Dodi and with your family.
Many people had described Diana as somewhat troubled and insecure. And even you said that her marriage to Charles was very difficult for her. Did you think that she was troubled and insecure and having a difficult time with her life?
AL-FAYED: Definitely. Because she married so young, she don't have real-life experience. She find herself living in such unbelievable, completely controlled environment. She straight away discovered that Prince Charles have relation with another woman, Camilla Parker Bowles. And she's just being used as a person. She was needing love, needing care when she was 19, 20 years old.
CHUNG: Would you share with me, how did you find out that the accident had occurred? AL-FAYED: I was just talking to Dodi and Diana half-an-hour before they left the hotel. And Dodi told me that: "There is hundreds of paparazzi just waiting for us. I want to go to the apartment, spend the evening. I have a bottle of champagne. I have the engagement ring."
I told Dodi: "Please, for heaven's sake, stay, because, in the hotel, you have a lovely place you are in now. Don't go out, because you're going to be followed up and it will be very serious."
He say: "OK, dad, I think I will take your advice."
I say good night. Forty-five minutes later, one of my security people call me. He say: "There was a terrible accident in Paris. And Dodi have passed away and Princess Diana has been taken to a hospital, is very, very sick. The driver, Henri Paul, also been killed. And the security guard, Trevor, he is also very heavily injured, being taken to a hospital." It was just shocking.
CHUNG: Mr. Al-Fayed, to this day, is it difficult to accept your loss?
AL-FAYED: Yes.
For a father who lost a child, especially if you believe that this is not God's wish, it is evil, racist thug who eliminates life of such beautiful people, innocent people, you think it is easy to recover? It is very, very difficult.
CHUNG: How long will you carry on your investigation?
AL-FAYED: Until I get to the truth and uncover those gangsters who have executed such a horrendous crime.
CHUNG: I know that you kept the apartment of your son in France in Paris...
AL-FAYED: Yes.
CHUNG: ... exactly the same as it always was.
AL-FAYED: Yes.
CHUNG: Why have you done that?
AL-FAYED: I believe Dodi, his soul is living on those places. I go always from time to time, sit there. And I pray and I remember all the happy days he give me.
CHUNG: Mr. Al-Fayed, how will you honor your son and Diana on the anniversary of their death?
AL-FAYED: Just praying to God to help me to find the terrorists who have taken their life.
CHUNG: May I just say I appreciate your being with us, and I thank you so much for sharing your thoughts. And I wish you well. And I hope that you'll be able to conclude your investigation to your satisfaction.
AL-FAYED: Thank you very much for giving me a chance to talk about my tragedy and talking what happened to me. Thank you.
CHUNG: Thank you, Mr. Mohamed Al-Fayed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: And we should remind you that the British royal family and various intelligence agencies deny any involvement in the crash or in any subsequent cover-up. And the French inquest found no evidence of such activities.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: We all agree that life is not the same since September 11. We want to know how yours as changed. Did you move, change jobs, volunteer? Whatever it is, we want you to tell us about it on videotape. Send your tapes to CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT, P.O. Box 5138, New York, New York, 10185.
For more information, log on to CNN.com/CONNIE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: When the Jim Beam Distillery in Kentucky decided that workers were exploiting the policy of break times, they consulted with doctors and announced a new policy. Listen to this. You've got to listen to this: four bathroom breaks, three of them prescheduled, one of them unscheduled, in each 8 1/2-hour shift. Workers can be disciplined for taking more and potentially fired after six incidents.
Now, in a statement, Jim Beam called its policy fair, reasonable and respectful, and said workers who need additional breaks are accommodated.
Now, as you might imagine, not of all the workers are satisfied.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM BEAM EMPLOYEE: If you got to go to the bathroom, you got to go to the bathroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Right. Right?
So we're joined now by Jo Anne Kelley, president of the United Food and Commercial Workers Local, who worked for Jim Beam for 34 years.
Jo Anne, thank you for being with us.
JO ANNE KELLEY, FORMER JIM BEAM EMPLOYEE: Thank you for having me.
CHUNG: All right, lay those rules on me just one more time, because, I tell you, I can't believe it.
KELLEY: Well, the Jim Beam policy says, basically, that you're allowed to go to the bathroom when you have your scheduled break in the morning, which is approximately two hours after you come to work. And then you're allowed to go to the bathroom again at lunchtime. And you're allowed to go to the bathroom approximately two hours later, when you take an afternoon break.
And other than that, you can go to the bathroom one other time.
CHUNG: At your -- whenever you ask for it; is that right?
KELLEY: Yes, that's correct.
CHUNG: OK.
And then there's something else called the potty police, that the workers were calling the potty police. What's that?
KELLEY: Well, under Jim Beam's policy, their supervisors are required to keep count of every time you go to the bathroom. They actually have a sheet that they're given every day that they mark down each employee that's working on their line that day. And they have to mark down when you go to the bathroom. And, at the end of the day, they have...
CHUNG: You're kidding.
KELLEY: No.
And, at the end of the day, they turn that into human resources. It is kept on spreadsheets. And each day, they tally the number of the times that each employee goes to the bathroom. And the ones that have gotten over their limit, then they get counseled or disciplined in some way.
CHUNG: And someone could actually be fired?
KELLEY: Yes. I have one employee who is at her final warning stage. We say she is one potty break away from discharge.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: I'm sorry. I hate to laugh. It just sounds so ridiculous.
I have to ask you, are there a bunch of pinheads running Jim Beam? (LAUGHTER)
KELLEY: I'm not going to comment.
CHUNG: OK, Jo Anne. You don't have to. We'll go on to another question.
Have you ever heard of any other company doing anything like this?
KELLEY: Not to my knowledge.
CHUNG: All right.
KELLEY: I'm sure there are other plants that have policies. But to go into this much detail and just, basically, as you said, act as potty police, and watch every move that you make, and keep up with every potty break that you take, I doubt if there's another company that has gone to this much trouble.
CHUNG: So why does Jim Beam say it's doing this? Why do the people who are running it say this is necessary? What's their goal?
KELLEY: I'm not real sure. They keep talking about the policy that we had before, that people abused it.
To my knowledge, we really didn't have a policy in the past. There was a practice that was in place that had been in place probably for 50 years, whereby people rotated off the line and relieved each other, or there was a relief person provided to relieve people on the line. And they talk about it being abused. And I really can't say that it has been abused any more in the past three or four years than what it was 30 years ago, probably not as much.
CHUNG: Well, Jo Anne, what do you suggest for -- if there is abuse of this privilege, what would you suggest doing?
KELLEY: If there are abuses, we already have guidelines in our collective-bargaining agreement that gives them a right to discipline individuals who they feel is abusing any kind of policy. We have language...
CHUNG: But the company says -- let me take their side of it for a minute. They say that this is a unique setting, this is a unique work setting, because it is on the assembly line, and it doesn't apply to other people. So what do you have to say about that?
KELLEY: I don't understand what would be unique about it. There are assembly lines all over the country, whether they're making food products or bottling other products or making automobiles. I just don't understand why they would think that this was a unique situation.
CHUNG: What if you have a medical problem?
KELLEY: Well, if you have a medical problem -- and I've got to tell you that they are forcing people to say they have a medical problem just to be able to go to the bathroom, when they really don't have a medical problem. It's just Mother Nature. But they do -- they make a big showing of saying that they will accommodate you if you have a medical problem and you cannot conform to their schedule.
CHUNG: Now, I know, Jo Anne, that there was a hearing this morning, right, concerning this. And I just want to know, did any of the Jim Beam lawyers or representatives at the company have to take a bathroom break?
KELLEY: I think everybody in that room took a bathroom break at one time or another.
CHUNG: Well, then, we rest our case, right, Jo Anne Kelley?
Thank you so much for being with us.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Now an update on a story we've been following: The penalty phase has started in the trial of David Westerfield, who was convicted last week of kidnapping and murdering 7-year-old Danielle van Dam. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty. Today, Danielle's mother and father both testified and tried to describe to the jury what they lost when their daughter was taken and what she meant to them.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDA VAN DAM, MOTHER OF DANIELLE: She was one of the most precious gifts anyone could ever receive. And I was so happy the day I found out I was pregnant, because, before, I had a miscarriage between Danielle and Derek. And I so wanted another child. And I was so happy when I found out I was pregnant.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUNG: Tomorrow, defense lawyers will call their own witnesses in an effort to spare Westerfield's life.
Tomorrow: Will baseball players go on strike and will it be the last strike for America's pastime?
Coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": more on the sentencing of David Westerfield. Larry's guests include Marc Klaas and Court TV's Nancy Grace.
Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and see you tomorrow.
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