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CNN Connie Chung Tonight
A Child's Living Hell; Pregnancy Discrimination at Work?; Tony Blair Argues the Case Against Iraq
Aired September 24, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight, a painful story: unspeakable cruelty against a defenseless 7-year-old girl.
ANNOUNCER: A horrid discovery in Florida: a 7-year-old locked in a room for months, allegedly neglected by her mother. She weighed only 29 pounds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DETECTIVE JOHN YARATCH, TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT: This child was kept in an 8-by-maybe-10 size area with absolutely nothing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight: Who could do such a thing and why?
Pregnancy discrimination? This woman says her boss made her pay the price because she became pregnant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA MYERS, PROFESSOR, SAM HOUSTON STATE UNIVERSITY: When I told him I was pregnant, I told him that I would be needing the leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: She says she was forced back to work the day after giving birth. But did it save her job?
Britain's Tony Blair makes his case against Iraq, saying Saddam poses an immediate threat to the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: He has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And tonight, Iraq fires back.
A Russian beauty queen loses her crown. Did Miss Universe fall from grace or was she pushed? This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight, we start with a story that is very difficult to believe, difficult to stomach. It may be too hard for some of you to watch. It is the story of a 7-year-old girl. She was living -- if you can call it that -- with her mother and her mother's boyfriend in Tampa. She had no bed and no warmth, no toys and no compassion.
Instead, police say, her mother and boyfriend gave her cruelty and so little food that her hair had begun to fall out from malnutrition. Her ordeal ended two weeks ago after a New York judge gave custody to her father and he went to Tampa to claim his little girl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): When Daniel Sims arrived with a court order to this Harold (ph) Street address to get his 7-year-old daughter, he was shocked. His little girl weighed only 29 pounds. Normally a child her age weighs twice that much. For weeks, police say the girl had been imprisoned in a barren bedroom, her existence a living hell.
YARATCH: The room was foul with the odor of urine and feces because the child was only allowed to use the closet as a restroom. This child was kept in an 8-by-maybe-10 size area with absolutely nothing to do. No food was provided, or very little food.
CHUNG: The girl's mother, Connie Warrington, and her boyfriend, David LaPointe, are in jail, charged with eight counts of child abuse, including caging, food deprivation and medical neglect.
YARATCH: The child has no shape to her hips. Her arms are extremely slender in shape. And the ribcage is exposed slightly. And then the left side of the child's hip, the bruising here is where the human bite mark was that the child has attributed to the defendant, David LaPointe.
CHUNG: Police photos reveal the depths of the abuse the girl suffered, abuse they say started years ago when the couple lived in New York. Investigators believe Warrington's boyfriend hated the little girl and gave his two children superior treatment, including nicely furnished bedrooms filled with toys.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: We're going to go now to Albany, New York, where we're joined by the man who found the little girl living in squalor: her biological father, Daniel Sims, with his attorney, William Canale.
Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us.
Dan, tell me, how is your daughter, physically and emotionally? DANIEL SIMS, FATHER OF ABUSED GIRL: She's doing a lot better than she was. She's talking more. She's playing more, just having more fun than she normally would have.
CHUNG: When you took her to the doctor, does she have any serious medical problems that can't be solved?
SIMS: No.
CHUNG: Basically, has she eaten more now?
SIMS: Yes. She's gained about six pounds.
CHUNG: Oh, that's wonderful.
OK, let's go back, then. It was your estranged wife, Connie, who called you one day and said your daughter wasn't eating for her and that she wanted you to come down and pick her up. You went down to Florida with your mother. And when you came to her house and you opened the door to her room, what did you find?
SIMS: Well, actually, I wasn't allowed in the room.
CHUNG: Oh, you weren't?
SIMS: I was allowed into the living room. And that was as far as I was allowed to go.
CHUNG: All right.
So how did it come about that you were actually able to see your daughter? Was she brought out of the room?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: And how would you describe her?
SIMS: She was upset. She was very scared. She was just all- around afraid.
CHUNG: How did she look to you?
SIMS: She was really skinny. And you could tell that she hadn't been fed and she wasn't eating right off the bat.
CHUNG: Did she recognize you?
SIMS: Yes, she did.
CHUNG: Immediately?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: Did she smile when she recognized you?
SIMS: Yes, she did. She gave me a big-old hug. CHUNG: Aww.
And did she say anything to you at that time?
SIMS: No, she didn't.
CHUNG: Did she appear frightened of her mother, your estranged wife, and her mother's boyfriend?
SIMS: Well, he was there, but he walked out of the room the minute I come in the door. And she was a little bit scared of her mother, but it really -- she didn't really seem like she knew what was going on.
CHUNG: Did you tell her that you were going take her with you?
SIMS: Yes, I did.
CHUNG: And what was her reaction?
SIMS: She just gave me a big-old hug.
CHUNG: So, was it right at that moment that you scooped her up and took her home?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: So you were back in New York. And you took her to the hospital. And that's how authorities got into this picture.
Let's go back a little more, then. What we have learned and probably what you have learned is that she really was treated horribly, just horribly. In fact, she was quite abused -- allegedly abused, certainly -- by your estranged wife's boyfriend. Are you aware of the fact that he's accused of putting a bead in her ear?
SIMS: Yes, I am.
CHUNG: What can you tell us about that?
SIMS: Not very much, to be honest with you.
CHUNG: But you had her taken to the hospital so you could have the bead removed?
SIMS: Yes, I did.
CHUNG: Tell me, did she describe any of her treatment to you?
SIMS: She's been giving us little bits and pieces here and there.
CHUNG: What has she told you, Dan?
SIMS: I really cannot get into that.
CHUNG: All right.
There was another incident that we were told about. And that is that your estranged wife's boyfriend allegedly bit her in the back and that you could see the bite marks.
SIMS: Yes, that's true.
CHUNG: It is.
Did she remember that?
SIMS: Yes, she did.
CHUNG: Oh, dear.
Now, can you tell me what her daily routine is? Are you able to create a relatively normal life for her?
SIMS: Yes, I am, actually.
She gets up in the morning. She wakes me up. "Daddy, it's time to get up, time to get ready for school." And we take her -- or she gets on the bus for school. And then it's just pretty much a routine day.
CHUNG: And she eats three square meals, I would imagine?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: Is your mother helping out?
SIMS: Yes, she is.
CHUNG: Now, Daniel, I understand that you had tried to get custody of her over the years. Is that correct?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: In the beginning, it was perhaps six months after you and Connie were married that Connie apparently left. Then you tried to get custody. What was the problem? I know you had visitation rights for a time.
SIMS: Yes, I did. Basically, we fought back and forth over visitation, basically.
CHUNG: Did you have any idea that, during that period, that she might have been abused?
SIMS: No, I did not.
CHUNG: Any of the time that your daughter and your estranged wife were still living in New York, did you receive any reports from social services, from any hospitals that she might be having some problems?
SIMS: No, I did not.
CHUNG: She was actually in the hospital -- actually, a psychiatric hospital, as we understand it -- because of problems of bed-wetting. Were you aware of that?
SIMS: Yes, I was.
CHUNG: And what did you learn about that? I mean, did it seem like just a normal problem -- it's something that does happen to kids -- or were you really concerned that it suggested something bigger?
SIMS: Well, I was concerned that it suggested something bigger. I went to the medical facility and I visited her. Not more than two days afterwards, Connie took her out of there and left.
CHUNG: And that's when she went to Florida, right?
SIMS: No.
CHUNG: Oh, no?
SIMS: She moved to -- well, I think it was around that time. I'm not sure.
CHUNG: OK.
Tell me, what is your estranged wife like, Connie? She's 23 years old. How old are you?
SIMS: Twenty-six.
CHUNG: All right.
What is she like?
SIMS: She was a very nice person. She was kind. She was sweet, all around a nice person.
CHUNG: Did you think she was a good mother?
SIMS: At the time, yes, I did.
CHUNG: What you saw, what you observed?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: Well, what -- do you have any idea what happened?
SIMS: No, I don't.
CHUNG: Do you know the boyfriend, David LaPointe?
SIMS: No, I don't.
CHUNG: He reportedly hated your little daughter. And he's allegedly -- well, he's accused of allegedly putting her in this situation and practically caging her. Any knowledge about that?
SIMS: No, none whatsoever.
CHUNG: Dan, what have investigators told you about the status of the case? As we understand it now, Connie, your estranged wife, and her boyfriend are both being held, accused and charged with child abuse.
SIMS: You want to take this one?
CHUNG: All right, we'll talk to your lawyer, William Canale.
WILLIAM CANALE, ATTORNEY FOR SIMS: Yes.
It's my understanding that they're charged with felony child abuse, very serious in the state of Florida, very serious anywhere.
CHUNG: And have they admitted, do you know, to any abuse?
CANALE: I'm not familiar -- I'm not privy to the facts of the investigation or the process of the case. I do know that they're incarcerated. They haven't made bail.
CHUNG: I see.
Back to Dan: Had you noticed any behavioral problems by your daughter at any time when you would visit her?
SIMS: No.
CHUNG: OK.
Well, do you think you'll be able to take care of her now and give her a normal life?
SIMS: I'm hoping so.
CHUNG: And you now have custody of her?
SIMS: Yes, I do.
CHUNG: As far as the courts are concerned and as far as you're concerned?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: What do you think happened to your wife?
SIMS: I have no clue what happened to her.
CHUNG: All right, well, Daniel Sims, we thank you so much for being with us. I'm so happy and I'm sure the viewers are happy to hear that your daughter is OK and she's gaining weight.
And thank you, William Canale, for being with us.
CANALE: A pleasure.
CHUNG: OK.
Joining me now from Tampa, Florida: police detective John Yaratch, lead investigator on the case.
Good evening, Detective. Thank you for being with us tonight.
I know that you have actually interviewed the little girl. Can you tell me about the interview? You flew up to New York. And you're from in the Tampa area. What did you find? Was she able to talk to you?
YARATCH: Well, she was very shy at first, very withdrawn, and very troubled. You could tell she was very angry.
I tried to build a rapport with the little girl, as we normally do in these situations. And it was very difficult. But she did finally start answering our questions, initially by shaking her head yes and no. I was able to solidify some of the responses that had been obtained previously, before my arrival in New York.
Once dad came into the room, she opened up a lot more. She was smiling. She became very -- much more happy and cooperative. And her whole attitude changed and just brightened up.
CHUNG: Oh, that's good.
Can you tell us, what do you think her story is? What happened to her?
YARATCH: Well, I think it is a terribly tragic story for her.
I believe that this is a situation of a man who was very jealous of the affections that were given to this little girl, did not want to deal with that, and wanted that little girl out of the picture, basically, for his relationship. He felt threatened in some manner. From my investigation, I've been able to obtain statements that individuals say he was a very jealous individual.
And in our conversations with him after his arrest -- or prior to his arrest, I should say -- he admitted that he hated this little girl. And the problem was that the mom had opportunity to remedy this situation, did not, and became a part of this and allowed it to go on.
CHUNG: When you talked with the little girl, did you feel that she was getting physically better and even emotionally better? I'm sure it will take her years and years to get better. But what was your sense, because you've had a lot of experience in child abuse cases and sex crimes? That's your specialty.
YARATCH: Yes, ma'am.
Well, I hadn't seen the girl prior to my arrival in New York. So I could only go by what I saw in the pictures that were faxed to me. When I got to New York, I obtained the photographs that had been taken by the child protective services up there. And, obviously, just looking at the little girl, she was in much better condition. Her hair was even starting to fill back in already, in a short period of time.
But she was still very meek, very petite, and very vulnerable still. But she did pick up strength from her father. And I could see that there was a bond between them and a very strong love between them.
CHUNG: Were you able to get an answer from her as to what she thought the problem was; why was she being treated so poorly?
YARATCH: No, I did not go into that with her. And I don't believe she could give me a reason for that.
I don't believe a 7-year-old child is going to have the ability to understand why someone would do this to her. She was a little girl that watched the other children in the home be played with, be held, basically given all the love in the family, had all the toys, the clothes. And she is standing on the outside looking in. I'm sure she probably wondered why it was different. But I don't know if she could formulate that in her mind. In her mind, she was just a bad girl, as Mr. LaPointe had kept telling her, that she was a bad girl and that he hated her.
CHUNG: Detective, that's just heartbreaking. Have you ever seen or heard of anything like this?
YARATCH: Well, unfortunately, we've dealt with thousands of these cases, similar to this.
This is the first one I can say that the extent of the starvation, the malnutrition was as great as this. And it truly had a happy ending, whereas possibly and in a very short period of time, this little girl would no longer be among us. And I think we're very fortunate that she's still with us.
CHUNG: All right, Detective Yaratch, thank you so much for being with us. And we appreciate it.
Still ahead: The prime minister of Britain lines up behind the White House against Iraq. Or does he?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: She lost her job. She says it's because she had a baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MYERS: I didn't feel that there was support for a woman in my position of having a child, or any person who had a child, for that matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Was it pregnancy discrimination? -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): Demeaning comments, calling her "mama," remarking on the weight she was gaining, and making sarcastic remarks about how they too would like maternity leave. Her doctor recommended eight weeks of maternity leave. But Myers says she felt such pressure from Dean Ward to get back to work that she taught a class by teleconference just one day after giving birth to her daughter.
MYERS: When I told him I was pregnant, I told him that I would be needing the leave. And he says, "Well, we'll deal with it when it happens." And then when it happened, it was, "You need to be here." And they made no accommodation for the birth or anything that I would have to be doing during that maternity leave.
CHUNG: Two months after she gave birth, Dean Ward dismissed her from her job. According to Myers, Ward said that he wanted someone with greater flexibility, someone who did not have a baby, this despite Myers' contention that she was available full-time and relied on her husband, a stay-at-home dad, to take care of the children.
MYERS: My initial question is...
CHUNG: Myers was reassigned to the position of research director and had to take a $21,000 pay cut. Dean Ward and Sam Houston State University declined our request for an interview, citing pending litigation, but sent a letter pointing out that Myers received a promotion this year to full professor even after she filed her discrimination case.
Myers still makes $13,000 less than she did as assistant dean. The issue has polarized students on campus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like, as a parent, she should concentrate more on her child as opposed to her job.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I totally think she was discriminated against. Just because she had a baby, she shouldn't be demoted from a position that she was well qualified for, from what I understand.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Laura Myers joins us now from Houston, along with her attorney, Gaines West. Thank you for being with us.
Professor Myers, tell me, what did the dean say to you when you told him you were pregnant?
MYERS: He said that he was going to have to find some other way to handle the position. He was going to replace me. And I said, "I can do the job."
And he said, "Well, let's see. Let's see if -- when the time comes, what happens."
CHUNG: And you literally went back to work the day after you gave birth? Did you feel you were obligated to do so? Or did you feel as if it was an order, that you had to do it?
MYERS: I had to do it. He made it very clear that I would lose the position if I didn't do the work. And so the very next day after giving birth, I was teleconferencing my class to make sure that my class was covered.
CHUNG: Has your performance ever been questioned?
MYERS: No, my performance has never been questioned. In fact, I'm the top-performing professor in the college.
CHUNG: According to whom?
MYERS: According to our faculty-evaluation system and the associate dean.
CHUNG: You know how I think outsiders, people who are not directly involved in your case might say: "Well, she's just a troublemaker. She probably is some kind of feminist who has held people up time and time again back years ago." Are you a troublemaker?
MYERS: Not at all.
I've been doing this job for a long time. I love what I do. And I'm just trying to do my job. I'm just a professional working person and trying to do the best I can possibly do. I'm not an activist. I'm not a feminist.
CHUNG: Mr. West, according to the university, they tried to settle this case. And they claim that you and she were making outrageous demands.
GAINES WEST, ATTORNEY FOR MYERS: That's not true, Connie.
What we were doing was trying to make sure that someone, any other person in Dr. Myers' position, would never, ever have to face this kind of situation again. We were quite reasonable, trying to get this matter resolved before we had to resort to the courts. And, unfortunately, that's where we're having to go now. We're hopeful that it will get resolved by the good people of Walker County there in Huntsville through a jury trial.
CHUNG: All right, Professor Myers, as some people might say, because you are the breadwinner in your home, if it were a man, he could come back to work the next day, of course, because he's able to. So you can't have it both ways. In other words, you're the breadwinner. You have to go to work the day after you give birth. You want the job, you want it all, that's what you have to put up with.
MYERS: And that's what I did. I did go back to work the very next day. I did do the job. I did everything that I was asked to do. And I still was fired from the position. That's what I don't understand. I did what I was expected to do.
CHUNG: You know, I was a little surprised when I heard some of the quotes, the claims that you made of what was said to you. Was it really the old boy's club at work here?
MYERS: Yes, definitely. And I was quite shocked. It was amazing that people would say things about a woman, in this day and age, having a child and trying to work in a professional work force.
CHUNG: Well, what exactly did they say to you?
MYERS: Talking to me like I was a second-class citizen. They referred to me as "mother," "mama" in professional meetings. They would joke about my weight. And, really, the bad stuff was when they said things like they wished they could take maternity leave and take time off, too, like I was getting all this free time and being paid.
CHUNG: Now, some people might say you were taking it too seriously, you know: "You just don't have a sense of humor. Why can't you take a joke?"
MYERS: If it was a joke, it would have just happened a few times. This went on and on. It was continual. It happened in professional situations, in official situations. It was done in a very demeaning manner. And it just went on and on. If it had stopped or if it had been once or twice, I could see it being jokes. But it seemed very intentional.
CHUNG: All right, Laura Myers...
WEST: Connie...
CHUNG: Yes, quickly, sir.
WEST: If I could add, I have three daughters of my own. And when Dr. Myers came to me, this struck a chord in my life, to be sure that someone like Dr. Myers, my daughters, other women who go into the workplace are not discriminated against. She's sticking out her neck. And we're trying to help her make sure that there is a difference here.
CHUNG: All right, we appreciate that. We really do.
Thank you, Gaines West. And thank you, Laura Myers. It was really a pleasure to have you on. Thank you.
MYERS: Thank you, Connie.
WEST: Thank you so much.
CHUNG: Still ahead: British Prime Minister Tony Blair makes his case for Iraq to disarm. But what about getting rid of Saddam?
Stay with us. ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: Why did Miss Universe lose her crown? We'll take you to Russia to see if she jumped or was pushed -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: We will continue in a moment.
(NEWS BREAK)
CHUNG: And still ahead, you'll meet the new Miss Universe. But was the old one given the boot or was she walking on her own?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up: Could Saddam be only 45 minutes away from deploying chemical and biological weapons?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: The inspectors aren't needed to clean up the old remains. His weapons of mass destruction program is active, detailed and growing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, on the secret file on Saddam -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: With the U.N. expected to vote this week and the U.S. Congress expected to vote as soon as next week, the issue of war with Iraq is on the front burner. Today, the heat came from London, where Prime Minister Tony Blair pressed his case for Iraq to disarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: his chemical, biological and nuclear weapons program is not an historic leftover from 1998. The inspectors aren't needed to clean up the old remains. His weapons of mass destruction program is active, detailed and growing.
Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shi'a population, and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.
Again, I defy anyone to say that this cruel and sadistic dictator should be allowed any possibility of getting his hands on chemical, biological and nuclear weapons of mass destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CHUNG: Joining us now from London is CNN chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.
Christiane, what was the prime minister's speech effective in swaying Parliament and the British public to support action against Iraq?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is being described as having been an effective speech.
Indeed, obviously, as you know, there was quite a lot of talk about how he faced an open rebellion, people were saying, amongst his own party and backbenchers. It turned out that there was no substantive vote taken in the Parliament. There was a technical vote taken at the end of a marathon day of debate in a specially recalled Parliament; 53 of his own Labor M.P.s opposed war with Iraq. But that's out of a total of 410 Labor M.P.s in Parliament. The opposition Tory Party, the conservatives, by and large supported him. The Liberal Democrats didn't support his case for war, they said.
But, on the whole, his own speech was considered successful. His dossier was considered less of a smoking gun and less of a -- what they call the killer evidence for immediate action to overthrow Saddam Hussein. The people of Britain have not yet been polled since this speech. However, in a poll released before the speech on Tuesday here in London, it appears that some of the people are moving more towards the idea of military action. It is up by about four points over last month.
But, significantly, 86 percent of all of those people polled in Britain say that Britain should not go to war or take any military action without explicit support from Parliament and the United Nations.
CHUNG: Christiane, he did not ask for a regime change. Do you have any intelligence on why and what impact it might have on the international community?
AMANPOUR: Well, it was significant.
This is the U.S.' most staunch ally in this whole operation. But, unlike the United States, as you say, Blair did not make a case for regime change, and nor did he attempt to draw any link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda or any kind of global terrorism.
What he hewed very, very strictly to was the idea of disarmament, because that is what the people of Britain care about. And that is what Europeans mostly care about. And he was very clear to stick to that. He was very clear that it was about disarmament. He made his case that Saddam Hussein had violated human rights in the extreme, but that this was all about disarmament and making sure he never managed to get his hands on a proper capability of weapons of mass destruction.
CHUNG: All right, very quickly, the Iraqi response was quick, a hodgepodge, it said, of half-truths, lies and naive allegations. But the Iraqis also promised U.N. weapons inspectors would have -- and this is the key word -- unfettered access.
AMANPOUR: Yes. Well, that is, I think, the most important headline that came out of the Baghdad press conference today by a senior adviser to Saddam Hussein.
Of course, the British, in their dossier, have said that -- and this is the latest and the newest intelligence that was provided in that dossier -- was that, ahead of any U.N. weapons inspections, they felt they had evidence that the Iraqis were already hiding documentation and equipment, they said, sensitive documentation and equipment.
So that raises a dilemma. Was that Blair sort of leaving the door open to possible military action or does it leave the ball in Iraq's court? If Iraq is able to be successful at hiding things and also giving the U.N. weapons inspectors unfettered access, then where does that leave the United States and others who feel that military action should be taken? So, yes, that is the dilemma that we'll see to be resolved, or not, once the inspectors go back.
CHUNG: All right, Christiane Amanpour in London, thank you.
And we have this program note. Beginning tomorrow, Wolf Blitzer will host a new hour titled "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ," focusing on a potential war with Iraq. "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ" starts at noon Eastern.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: Miss Universe is stripped of her crown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: Oxana is a very nice person, but she just wasn't able to fulfill her duties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But did Miss Russia's firing have more to do with her waistline than her travel schedule?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT is coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Margaret Thatcher became England's first female prime minister in 1979. She held on to the job for longer than any of her 20th century's predecessors had. She started off in office as a revolutionary, cutting taxes, cutting government services, and privatizing huge government companies, including British Telecom and Rolls-Royce.
Never universally popular at home, it was on the world stage that Thatcher truly flourished, developing a mutual admiration with U.S. President Ronald Reagan, earning the grudging respect of the Kremlin, which nicknamed her the "Iron Lady," and winning the Falklands War against Argentina. But her reluctance to let England submerge itself into the European Union contributed to her political fall at home. And, in 1990, she resigned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 1990)
MARGARET THATCHER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Ladies and gentlemen, we're leaving Downing Street for the last time after 11 1/2 wonderful years. And we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very, very much better state than when we came here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: She may not have gotten full agreement from some critics of England's transportation and health care systems. But what has Thatcher done since she stepped down? The answer when we return.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: What has former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher done since resigning in 1990? Thatcher, now Baroness Thatcher, remained a powerful political force in British politics. Labor candidates have used her as a boogeyman in their campaigns. Some Tory candidates have had a tough time emerging from her shadow. After September 11, she advised her countrymen to follow the lead of President George W. Bush.
Then, this year, after a series of small strokes, her doctors ordered her to retire from public life. Though she still writes and makes her opinions known, at the age of 76, she says she will never again give a public speech.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Did Miss Universe quit or was she fired? And what exactly was the reason for the Russian beauty queen's downfall? Was the Miss Universe workload just too heavy? Or was she?
We're going to ask her successor and the president of the Miss Universe Pageant in just a moment.
But first, CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Doherty fills in the ugly details of the world of beauty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): A beauty queen's crown or a police captain's badge: That was the choice says Oxana Fedorova, explaining why she is no longer Miss Universe.
OXANA FEDOROVA, FORMER MISS UNIVERSE (through translator): I found that the duties really interfere with my education. That's the only reason I decided to give up the crown.
DOUGHERTY: But that's not how the pageant's organizers explain it. They say she was fired for refusing to perform her duties as Miss Universe, costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars.
"The New York Post," which broke the news, quotes unnamed insiders who think Oxana might have secretly married her boyfriend, gotten pregnant, and gained about 15 pounds, seven kilos. "No way," Oxana tells Russian TV.
FEDOROVA (through translator): Far as rumors about my being married and pregnant, those are wonderful rumors. I want a family. I love family life. And it is what most important in life. But at the moment, that's only my dream and not at all true.
DOUGHERTY: In real life, Oxana is a police officer and a post- graduate law student. The director of her St. Petersburg-based Interior Ministry University tells CNN she wrote her dissertation and has to defend it in October in St. Petersburg.
"They won't let her continue her studies," he says. "She wants to study and have a future. Next year, they'll select another Miss Universe and then what will she have?"
So Oxana Fedorova loses her crown and her perks, including a New York apartment. She says she still considers herself to be Miss Universe and is proud a Russian woman carried the title. But she claims she never realized the demands of being crowned the most beautiful woman in the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY: So Oxana says she had to make a choice and, actually, it wasn't that difficult. The crown, she says, just wasn't worth it -- Connie.
CHUNG: She's a well-educated woman. Did she honestly fail to recognize what the demands of the job were?
DOUGHERTY: You know, she says that, up until the last minute, when she was crowned Miss Universe, she really didn't understand all of the requirements of the job. And then, when she finally did, she thought: "Well, I have my career back home and I want to be Miss Universe. Something has to give. And I can't do both equally well." So she gave up the crown.
CHUNG: Well, of course there was a lot of national pride when she was crowned, because she was the first Miss Universe from Russia. But now is everyone upset?
DOUGHERTY: Well, there are a lot of people who are really disappointed, especially back in St. Petersburg, where she comes from.
But you're hearing a little bit of questioning about why she took on this type of job if she really wasn't going to follow it to the end. And that's just beginning. But, of course, basically, it's real disappointment.
CHUNG: Jill, so, does she disappear into oblivion?
DOUGHERTY: Well, she of course goes back and defends her dissertation and then gets her degree. But I have to tell you, I was watching an interview with her and she was hinting broadly that maybe she might want to do something connected with television, Connie.
CHUNG: Ah, tsk, tsk.
CNN's Jill Dougherty in Moscow.
And joining us now: the new Miss Universe as of today, Panama's Justine Pasek; and the president of the Miss Universe Organization, Paula Shugart.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Paula, this woman is an educated woman. She is a police officer and she is a graduate law student. She's interested in her education and her career. Isn't this the type of role model that you're looking for?
PAULA SHUGART, PRESIDENT, MISS UNIVERSITY ORGANIZATION: Absolutely. Oxana is a very intelligent, very smart and very beautiful woman.
CHUNG: But she's history?
SHUGART: Yes, she is.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: You felt she had to be dismissed?
SHUGART: Yes. She was not able to fulfill the obligations of a Miss Universe, as spelled in the contract.
CHUNG: Justine, now, I think Paula and the Miss Universe Organization flew you to the United States, right -- I mean back to New York, I guess.
JUSTINE PASEK, MISS UNIVERSE: Yes.
CHUNG: But they didn't tell you. Why?
PASEK: Well, they have explained to me now that they were afraid it would get out of my hands and into the press before they were ready to announce it. So that was the reason. And I can understand that.
CHUNG: So, the ride from the airport to the hotel or wherever you were going, did Paula tell you?
PASEK: Exactly.
(LAUGHTER) PASEK: Just as soon as I got in the car, she told me the situation and that that made me the new Miss Universe, which was a huge shock for me at first. But it has all gone smoothly. And I'm very happy to have this opportunity.
CHUNG: I know it isn't the way you dreamed, right? But it's just fine, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
PASEK: Yes. And my experience of doing the three weeks of the pageant in Puerto Rico were very positive. And that night at the broadcast, I had so much fun that I felt really satisfied by the result. So I had that satisfaction there.
And to become Miss Universe afterwards in a different situation, it has all -- it's pretty interesting for me. It is different, though.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Yes, very different.
Well, congratulations.
PASEK: Thank you very much.
CHUNG: You are beautiful, and the most beautiful woman in the world. So thank you so much for being with us.
Paula, thank you.
SHUGART: Thank you.
CHUNG: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tomorrow: another set of twins joined at the head. This time, the odds against them are even higher. We'll talk with their doctor.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Senator John McCain on attacking Iraq.
Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Tony Blair Argues the Case Against Iraq>
Aired September 24, 2002 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight, a painful story: unspeakable cruelty against a defenseless 7-year-old girl.
ANNOUNCER: A horrid discovery in Florida: a 7-year-old locked in a room for months, allegedly neglected by her mother. She weighed only 29 pounds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DETECTIVE JOHN YARATCH, TAMPA POLICE DEPARTMENT: This child was kept in an 8-by-maybe-10 size area with absolutely nothing to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Tonight: Who could do such a thing and why?
Pregnancy discrimination? This woman says her boss made her pay the price because she became pregnant.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA MYERS, PROFESSOR, SAM HOUSTON STATE UNIVERSITY: When I told him I was pregnant, I told him that I would be needing the leave.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: She says she was forced back to work the day after giving birth. But did it save her job?
Britain's Tony Blair makes his case against Iraq, saying Saddam poses an immediate threat to the world.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: He has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And tonight, Iraq fires back.
A Russian beauty queen loses her crown. Did Miss Universe fall from grace or was she pushed? This is CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.
CHUNG: Good evening.
Tonight, we start with a story that is very difficult to believe, difficult to stomach. It may be too hard for some of you to watch. It is the story of a 7-year-old girl. She was living -- if you can call it that -- with her mother and her mother's boyfriend in Tampa. She had no bed and no warmth, no toys and no compassion.
Instead, police say, her mother and boyfriend gave her cruelty and so little food that her hair had begun to fall out from malnutrition. Her ordeal ended two weeks ago after a New York judge gave custody to her father and he went to Tampa to claim his little girl.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): When Daniel Sims arrived with a court order to this Harold (ph) Street address to get his 7-year-old daughter, he was shocked. His little girl weighed only 29 pounds. Normally a child her age weighs twice that much. For weeks, police say the girl had been imprisoned in a barren bedroom, her existence a living hell.
YARATCH: The room was foul with the odor of urine and feces because the child was only allowed to use the closet as a restroom. This child was kept in an 8-by-maybe-10 size area with absolutely nothing to do. No food was provided, or very little food.
CHUNG: The girl's mother, Connie Warrington, and her boyfriend, David LaPointe, are in jail, charged with eight counts of child abuse, including caging, food deprivation and medical neglect.
YARATCH: The child has no shape to her hips. Her arms are extremely slender in shape. And the ribcage is exposed slightly. And then the left side of the child's hip, the bruising here is where the human bite mark was that the child has attributed to the defendant, David LaPointe.
CHUNG: Police photos reveal the depths of the abuse the girl suffered, abuse they say started years ago when the couple lived in New York. Investigators believe Warrington's boyfriend hated the little girl and gave his two children superior treatment, including nicely furnished bedrooms filled with toys.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: We're going to go now to Albany, New York, where we're joined by the man who found the little girl living in squalor: her biological father, Daniel Sims, with his attorney, William Canale.
Thank you, gentlemen, for being with us.
Dan, tell me, how is your daughter, physically and emotionally? DANIEL SIMS, FATHER OF ABUSED GIRL: She's doing a lot better than she was. She's talking more. She's playing more, just having more fun than she normally would have.
CHUNG: When you took her to the doctor, does she have any serious medical problems that can't be solved?
SIMS: No.
CHUNG: Basically, has she eaten more now?
SIMS: Yes. She's gained about six pounds.
CHUNG: Oh, that's wonderful.
OK, let's go back, then. It was your estranged wife, Connie, who called you one day and said your daughter wasn't eating for her and that she wanted you to come down and pick her up. You went down to Florida with your mother. And when you came to her house and you opened the door to her room, what did you find?
SIMS: Well, actually, I wasn't allowed in the room.
CHUNG: Oh, you weren't?
SIMS: I was allowed into the living room. And that was as far as I was allowed to go.
CHUNG: All right.
So how did it come about that you were actually able to see your daughter? Was she brought out of the room?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: And how would you describe her?
SIMS: She was upset. She was very scared. She was just all- around afraid.
CHUNG: How did she look to you?
SIMS: She was really skinny. And you could tell that she hadn't been fed and she wasn't eating right off the bat.
CHUNG: Did she recognize you?
SIMS: Yes, she did.
CHUNG: Immediately?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: Did she smile when she recognized you?
SIMS: Yes, she did. She gave me a big-old hug. CHUNG: Aww.
And did she say anything to you at that time?
SIMS: No, she didn't.
CHUNG: Did she appear frightened of her mother, your estranged wife, and her mother's boyfriend?
SIMS: Well, he was there, but he walked out of the room the minute I come in the door. And she was a little bit scared of her mother, but it really -- she didn't really seem like she knew what was going on.
CHUNG: Did you tell her that you were going take her with you?
SIMS: Yes, I did.
CHUNG: And what was her reaction?
SIMS: She just gave me a big-old hug.
CHUNG: So, was it right at that moment that you scooped her up and took her home?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: So you were back in New York. And you took her to the hospital. And that's how authorities got into this picture.
Let's go back a little more, then. What we have learned and probably what you have learned is that she really was treated horribly, just horribly. In fact, she was quite abused -- allegedly abused, certainly -- by your estranged wife's boyfriend. Are you aware of the fact that he's accused of putting a bead in her ear?
SIMS: Yes, I am.
CHUNG: What can you tell us about that?
SIMS: Not very much, to be honest with you.
CHUNG: But you had her taken to the hospital so you could have the bead removed?
SIMS: Yes, I did.
CHUNG: Tell me, did she describe any of her treatment to you?
SIMS: She's been giving us little bits and pieces here and there.
CHUNG: What has she told you, Dan?
SIMS: I really cannot get into that.
CHUNG: All right.
There was another incident that we were told about. And that is that your estranged wife's boyfriend allegedly bit her in the back and that you could see the bite marks.
SIMS: Yes, that's true.
CHUNG: It is.
Did she remember that?
SIMS: Yes, she did.
CHUNG: Oh, dear.
Now, can you tell me what her daily routine is? Are you able to create a relatively normal life for her?
SIMS: Yes, I am, actually.
She gets up in the morning. She wakes me up. "Daddy, it's time to get up, time to get ready for school." And we take her -- or she gets on the bus for school. And then it's just pretty much a routine day.
CHUNG: And she eats three square meals, I would imagine?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: Is your mother helping out?
SIMS: Yes, she is.
CHUNG: Now, Daniel, I understand that you had tried to get custody of her over the years. Is that correct?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: In the beginning, it was perhaps six months after you and Connie were married that Connie apparently left. Then you tried to get custody. What was the problem? I know you had visitation rights for a time.
SIMS: Yes, I did. Basically, we fought back and forth over visitation, basically.
CHUNG: Did you have any idea that, during that period, that she might have been abused?
SIMS: No, I did not.
CHUNG: Any of the time that your daughter and your estranged wife were still living in New York, did you receive any reports from social services, from any hospitals that she might be having some problems?
SIMS: No, I did not.
CHUNG: She was actually in the hospital -- actually, a psychiatric hospital, as we understand it -- because of problems of bed-wetting. Were you aware of that?
SIMS: Yes, I was.
CHUNG: And what did you learn about that? I mean, did it seem like just a normal problem -- it's something that does happen to kids -- or were you really concerned that it suggested something bigger?
SIMS: Well, I was concerned that it suggested something bigger. I went to the medical facility and I visited her. Not more than two days afterwards, Connie took her out of there and left.
CHUNG: And that's when she went to Florida, right?
SIMS: No.
CHUNG: Oh, no?
SIMS: She moved to -- well, I think it was around that time. I'm not sure.
CHUNG: OK.
Tell me, what is your estranged wife like, Connie? She's 23 years old. How old are you?
SIMS: Twenty-six.
CHUNG: All right.
What is she like?
SIMS: She was a very nice person. She was kind. She was sweet, all around a nice person.
CHUNG: Did you think she was a good mother?
SIMS: At the time, yes, I did.
CHUNG: What you saw, what you observed?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: Well, what -- do you have any idea what happened?
SIMS: No, I don't.
CHUNG: Do you know the boyfriend, David LaPointe?
SIMS: No, I don't.
CHUNG: He reportedly hated your little daughter. And he's allegedly -- well, he's accused of allegedly putting her in this situation and practically caging her. Any knowledge about that?
SIMS: No, none whatsoever.
CHUNG: Dan, what have investigators told you about the status of the case? As we understand it now, Connie, your estranged wife, and her boyfriend are both being held, accused and charged with child abuse.
SIMS: You want to take this one?
CHUNG: All right, we'll talk to your lawyer, William Canale.
WILLIAM CANALE, ATTORNEY FOR SIMS: Yes.
It's my understanding that they're charged with felony child abuse, very serious in the state of Florida, very serious anywhere.
CHUNG: And have they admitted, do you know, to any abuse?
CANALE: I'm not familiar -- I'm not privy to the facts of the investigation or the process of the case. I do know that they're incarcerated. They haven't made bail.
CHUNG: I see.
Back to Dan: Had you noticed any behavioral problems by your daughter at any time when you would visit her?
SIMS: No.
CHUNG: OK.
Well, do you think you'll be able to take care of her now and give her a normal life?
SIMS: I'm hoping so.
CHUNG: And you now have custody of her?
SIMS: Yes, I do.
CHUNG: As far as the courts are concerned and as far as you're concerned?
SIMS: Yes.
CHUNG: What do you think happened to your wife?
SIMS: I have no clue what happened to her.
CHUNG: All right, well, Daniel Sims, we thank you so much for being with us. I'm so happy and I'm sure the viewers are happy to hear that your daughter is OK and she's gaining weight.
And thank you, William Canale, for being with us.
CANALE: A pleasure.
CHUNG: OK.
Joining me now from Tampa, Florida: police detective John Yaratch, lead investigator on the case.
Good evening, Detective. Thank you for being with us tonight.
I know that you have actually interviewed the little girl. Can you tell me about the interview? You flew up to New York. And you're from in the Tampa area. What did you find? Was she able to talk to you?
YARATCH: Well, she was very shy at first, very withdrawn, and very troubled. You could tell she was very angry.
I tried to build a rapport with the little girl, as we normally do in these situations. And it was very difficult. But she did finally start answering our questions, initially by shaking her head yes and no. I was able to solidify some of the responses that had been obtained previously, before my arrival in New York.
Once dad came into the room, she opened up a lot more. She was smiling. She became very -- much more happy and cooperative. And her whole attitude changed and just brightened up.
CHUNG: Oh, that's good.
Can you tell us, what do you think her story is? What happened to her?
YARATCH: Well, I think it is a terribly tragic story for her.
I believe that this is a situation of a man who was very jealous of the affections that were given to this little girl, did not want to deal with that, and wanted that little girl out of the picture, basically, for his relationship. He felt threatened in some manner. From my investigation, I've been able to obtain statements that individuals say he was a very jealous individual.
And in our conversations with him after his arrest -- or prior to his arrest, I should say -- he admitted that he hated this little girl. And the problem was that the mom had opportunity to remedy this situation, did not, and became a part of this and allowed it to go on.
CHUNG: When you talked with the little girl, did you feel that she was getting physically better and even emotionally better? I'm sure it will take her years and years to get better. But what was your sense, because you've had a lot of experience in child abuse cases and sex crimes? That's your specialty.
YARATCH: Yes, ma'am.
Well, I hadn't seen the girl prior to my arrival in New York. So I could only go by what I saw in the pictures that were faxed to me. When I got to New York, I obtained the photographs that had been taken by the child protective services up there. And, obviously, just looking at the little girl, she was in much better condition. Her hair was even starting to fill back in already, in a short period of time.
But she was still very meek, very petite, and very vulnerable still. But she did pick up strength from her father. And I could see that there was a bond between them and a very strong love between them.
CHUNG: Were you able to get an answer from her as to what she thought the problem was; why was she being treated so poorly?
YARATCH: No, I did not go into that with her. And I don't believe she could give me a reason for that.
I don't believe a 7-year-old child is going to have the ability to understand why someone would do this to her. She was a little girl that watched the other children in the home be played with, be held, basically given all the love in the family, had all the toys, the clothes. And she is standing on the outside looking in. I'm sure she probably wondered why it was different. But I don't know if she could formulate that in her mind. In her mind, she was just a bad girl, as Mr. LaPointe had kept telling her, that she was a bad girl and that he hated her.
CHUNG: Detective, that's just heartbreaking. Have you ever seen or heard of anything like this?
YARATCH: Well, unfortunately, we've dealt with thousands of these cases, similar to this.
This is the first one I can say that the extent of the starvation, the malnutrition was as great as this. And it truly had a happy ending, whereas possibly and in a very short period of time, this little girl would no longer be among us. And I think we're very fortunate that she's still with us.
CHUNG: All right, Detective Yaratch, thank you so much for being with us. And we appreciate it.
Still ahead: The prime minister of Britain lines up behind the White House against Iraq. Or does he?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Next: She lost her job. She says it's because she had a baby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MYERS: I didn't feel that there was support for a woman in my position of having a child, or any person who had a child, for that matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Was it pregnancy discrimination? -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG (voice-over): Demeaning comments, calling her "mama," remarking on the weight she was gaining, and making sarcastic remarks about how they too would like maternity leave. Her doctor recommended eight weeks of maternity leave. But Myers says she felt such pressure from Dean Ward to get back to work that she taught a class by teleconference just one day after giving birth to her daughter.
MYERS: When I told him I was pregnant, I told him that I would be needing the leave. And he says, "Well, we'll deal with it when it happens." And then when it happened, it was, "You need to be here." And they made no accommodation for the birth or anything that I would have to be doing during that maternity leave.
CHUNG: Two months after she gave birth, Dean Ward dismissed her from her job. According to Myers, Ward said that he wanted someone with greater flexibility, someone who did not have a baby, this despite Myers' contention that she was available full-time and relied on her husband, a stay-at-home dad, to take care of the children.
MYERS: My initial question is...
CHUNG: Myers was reassigned to the position of research director and had to take a $21,000 pay cut. Dean Ward and Sam Houston State University declined our request for an interview, citing pending litigation, but sent a letter pointing out that Myers received a promotion this year to full professor even after she filed her discrimination case.
Myers still makes $13,000 less than she did as assistant dean. The issue has polarized students on campus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like, as a parent, she should concentrate more on her child as opposed to her job.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I totally think she was discriminated against. Just because she had a baby, she shouldn't be demoted from a position that she was well qualified for, from what I understand.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Laura Myers joins us now from Houston, along with her attorney, Gaines West. Thank you for being with us.
Professor Myers, tell me, what did the dean say to you when you told him you were pregnant?
MYERS: He said that he was going to have to find some other way to handle the position. He was going to replace me. And I said, "I can do the job."
And he said, "Well, let's see. Let's see if -- when the time comes, what happens."
CHUNG: And you literally went back to work the day after you gave birth? Did you feel you were obligated to do so? Or did you feel as if it was an order, that you had to do it?
MYERS: I had to do it. He made it very clear that I would lose the position if I didn't do the work. And so the very next day after giving birth, I was teleconferencing my class to make sure that my class was covered.
CHUNG: Has your performance ever been questioned?
MYERS: No, my performance has never been questioned. In fact, I'm the top-performing professor in the college.
CHUNG: According to whom?
MYERS: According to our faculty-evaluation system and the associate dean.
CHUNG: You know how I think outsiders, people who are not directly involved in your case might say: "Well, she's just a troublemaker. She probably is some kind of feminist who has held people up time and time again back years ago." Are you a troublemaker?
MYERS: Not at all.
I've been doing this job for a long time. I love what I do. And I'm just trying to do my job. I'm just a professional working person and trying to do the best I can possibly do. I'm not an activist. I'm not a feminist.
CHUNG: Mr. West, according to the university, they tried to settle this case. And they claim that you and she were making outrageous demands.
GAINES WEST, ATTORNEY FOR MYERS: That's not true, Connie.
What we were doing was trying to make sure that someone, any other person in Dr. Myers' position, would never, ever have to face this kind of situation again. We were quite reasonable, trying to get this matter resolved before we had to resort to the courts. And, unfortunately, that's where we're having to go now. We're hopeful that it will get resolved by the good people of Walker County there in Huntsville through a jury trial.
CHUNG: All right, Professor Myers, as some people might say, because you are the breadwinner in your home, if it were a man, he could come back to work the next day, of course, because he's able to. So you can't have it both ways. In other words, you're the breadwinner. You have to go to work the day after you give birth. You want the job, you want it all, that's what you have to put up with.
MYERS: And that's what I did. I did go back to work the very next day. I did do the job. I did everything that I was asked to do. And I still was fired from the position. That's what I don't understand. I did what I was expected to do.
CHUNG: You know, I was a little surprised when I heard some of the quotes, the claims that you made of what was said to you. Was it really the old boy's club at work here?
MYERS: Yes, definitely. And I was quite shocked. It was amazing that people would say things about a woman, in this day and age, having a child and trying to work in a professional work force.
CHUNG: Well, what exactly did they say to you?
MYERS: Talking to me like I was a second-class citizen. They referred to me as "mother," "mama" in professional meetings. They would joke about my weight. And, really, the bad stuff was when they said things like they wished they could take maternity leave and take time off, too, like I was getting all this free time and being paid.
CHUNG: Now, some people might say you were taking it too seriously, you know: "You just don't have a sense of humor. Why can't you take a joke?"
MYERS: If it was a joke, it would have just happened a few times. This went on and on. It was continual. It happened in professional situations, in official situations. It was done in a very demeaning manner. And it just went on and on. If it had stopped or if it had been once or twice, I could see it being jokes. But it seemed very intentional.
CHUNG: All right, Laura Myers...
WEST: Connie...
CHUNG: Yes, quickly, sir.
WEST: If I could add, I have three daughters of my own. And when Dr. Myers came to me, this struck a chord in my life, to be sure that someone like Dr. Myers, my daughters, other women who go into the workplace are not discriminated against. She's sticking out her neck. And we're trying to help her make sure that there is a difference here.
CHUNG: All right, we appreciate that. We really do.
Thank you, Gaines West. And thank you, Laura Myers. It was really a pleasure to have you on. Thank you.
MYERS: Thank you, Connie.
WEST: Thank you so much.
CHUNG: Still ahead: British Prime Minister Tony Blair makes his case for Iraq to disarm. But what about getting rid of Saddam?
Stay with us. ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: Why did Miss Universe lose her crown? We'll take you to Russia to see if she jumped or was pushed -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: We will continue in a moment.
(NEWS BREAK)
CHUNG: And still ahead, you'll meet the new Miss Universe. But was the old one given the boot or was she walking on her own?
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up: Could Saddam be only 45 minutes away from deploying chemical and biological weapons?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: The inspectors aren't needed to clean up the old remains. His weapons of mass destruction program is active, detailed and growing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: CNN's chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour, on the secret file on Saddam -- when CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: With the U.N. expected to vote this week and the U.S. Congress expected to vote as soon as next week, the issue of war with Iraq is on the front burner. Today, the heat came from London, where Prime Minister Tony Blair pressed his case for Iraq to disarm.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BLAIR: his chemical, biological and nuclear weapons program is not an historic leftover from 1998. The inspectors aren't needed to clean up the old remains. His weapons of mass destruction program is active, detailed and growing.
Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shi'a population, and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.
Again, I defy anyone to say that this cruel and sadistic dictator should be allowed any possibility of getting his hands on chemical, biological and nuclear weapons of mass destruction.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CHUNG: Joining us now from London is CNN chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.
Christiane, what was the prime minister's speech effective in swaying Parliament and the British public to support action against Iraq?
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is being described as having been an effective speech.
Indeed, obviously, as you know, there was quite a lot of talk about how he faced an open rebellion, people were saying, amongst his own party and backbenchers. It turned out that there was no substantive vote taken in the Parliament. There was a technical vote taken at the end of a marathon day of debate in a specially recalled Parliament; 53 of his own Labor M.P.s opposed war with Iraq. But that's out of a total of 410 Labor M.P.s in Parliament. The opposition Tory Party, the conservatives, by and large supported him. The Liberal Democrats didn't support his case for war, they said.
But, on the whole, his own speech was considered successful. His dossier was considered less of a smoking gun and less of a -- what they call the killer evidence for immediate action to overthrow Saddam Hussein. The people of Britain have not yet been polled since this speech. However, in a poll released before the speech on Tuesday here in London, it appears that some of the people are moving more towards the idea of military action. It is up by about four points over last month.
But, significantly, 86 percent of all of those people polled in Britain say that Britain should not go to war or take any military action without explicit support from Parliament and the United Nations.
CHUNG: Christiane, he did not ask for a regime change. Do you have any intelligence on why and what impact it might have on the international community?
AMANPOUR: Well, it was significant.
This is the U.S.' most staunch ally in this whole operation. But, unlike the United States, as you say, Blair did not make a case for regime change, and nor did he attempt to draw any link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda or any kind of global terrorism.
What he hewed very, very strictly to was the idea of disarmament, because that is what the people of Britain care about. And that is what Europeans mostly care about. And he was very clear to stick to that. He was very clear that it was about disarmament. He made his case that Saddam Hussein had violated human rights in the extreme, but that this was all about disarmament and making sure he never managed to get his hands on a proper capability of weapons of mass destruction.
CHUNG: All right, very quickly, the Iraqi response was quick, a hodgepodge, it said, of half-truths, lies and naive allegations. But the Iraqis also promised U.N. weapons inspectors would have -- and this is the key word -- unfettered access.
AMANPOUR: Yes. Well, that is, I think, the most important headline that came out of the Baghdad press conference today by a senior adviser to Saddam Hussein.
Of course, the British, in their dossier, have said that -- and this is the latest and the newest intelligence that was provided in that dossier -- was that, ahead of any U.N. weapons inspections, they felt they had evidence that the Iraqis were already hiding documentation and equipment, they said, sensitive documentation and equipment.
So that raises a dilemma. Was that Blair sort of leaving the door open to possible military action or does it leave the ball in Iraq's court? If Iraq is able to be successful at hiding things and also giving the U.N. weapons inspectors unfettered access, then where does that leave the United States and others who feel that military action should be taken? So, yes, that is the dilemma that we'll see to be resolved, or not, once the inspectors go back.
CHUNG: All right, Christiane Amanpour in London, thank you.
And we have this program note. Beginning tomorrow, Wolf Blitzer will host a new hour titled "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ," focusing on a potential war with Iraq. "SHOWDOWN: IRAQ" starts at noon Eastern.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Still ahead: Miss Universe is stripped of her crown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP: Oxana is a very nice person, but she just wasn't able to fulfill her duties.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: But did Miss Russia's firing have more to do with her waistline than her travel schedule?
CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT is coming right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Margaret Thatcher became England's first female prime minister in 1979. She held on to the job for longer than any of her 20th century's predecessors had. She started off in office as a revolutionary, cutting taxes, cutting government services, and privatizing huge government companies, including British Telecom and Rolls-Royce.
Never universally popular at home, it was on the world stage that Thatcher truly flourished, developing a mutual admiration with U.S. President Ronald Reagan, earning the grudging respect of the Kremlin, which nicknamed her the "Iron Lady," and winning the Falklands War against Argentina. But her reluctance to let England submerge itself into the European Union contributed to her political fall at home. And, in 1990, she resigned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 1990)
MARGARET THATCHER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Ladies and gentlemen, we're leaving Downing Street for the last time after 11 1/2 wonderful years. And we're very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very, very much better state than when we came here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: She may not have gotten full agreement from some critics of England's transportation and health care systems. But what has Thatcher done since she stepped down? The answer when we return.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: What has former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher done since resigning in 1990? Thatcher, now Baroness Thatcher, remained a powerful political force in British politics. Labor candidates have used her as a boogeyman in their campaigns. Some Tory candidates have had a tough time emerging from her shadow. After September 11, she advised her countrymen to follow the lead of President George W. Bush.
Then, this year, after a series of small strokes, her doctors ordered her to retire from public life. Though she still writes and makes her opinions known, at the age of 76, she says she will never again give a public speech.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHUNG: Did Miss Universe quit or was she fired? And what exactly was the reason for the Russian beauty queen's downfall? Was the Miss Universe workload just too heavy? Or was she?
We're going to ask her successor and the president of the Miss Universe Pageant in just a moment.
But first, CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Doherty fills in the ugly details of the world of beauty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): A beauty queen's crown or a police captain's badge: That was the choice says Oxana Fedorova, explaining why she is no longer Miss Universe.
OXANA FEDOROVA, FORMER MISS UNIVERSE (through translator): I found that the duties really interfere with my education. That's the only reason I decided to give up the crown.
DOUGHERTY: But that's not how the pageant's organizers explain it. They say she was fired for refusing to perform her duties as Miss Universe, costing them hundreds of thousands of dollars.
"The New York Post," which broke the news, quotes unnamed insiders who think Oxana might have secretly married her boyfriend, gotten pregnant, and gained about 15 pounds, seven kilos. "No way," Oxana tells Russian TV.
FEDOROVA (through translator): Far as rumors about my being married and pregnant, those are wonderful rumors. I want a family. I love family life. And it is what most important in life. But at the moment, that's only my dream and not at all true.
DOUGHERTY: In real life, Oxana is a police officer and a post- graduate law student. The director of her St. Petersburg-based Interior Ministry University tells CNN she wrote her dissertation and has to defend it in October in St. Petersburg.
"They won't let her continue her studies," he says. "She wants to study and have a future. Next year, they'll select another Miss Universe and then what will she have?"
So Oxana Fedorova loses her crown and her perks, including a New York apartment. She says she still considers herself to be Miss Universe and is proud a Russian woman carried the title. But she claims she never realized the demands of being crowned the most beautiful woman in the world.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOUGHERTY: So Oxana says she had to make a choice and, actually, it wasn't that difficult. The crown, she says, just wasn't worth it -- Connie.
CHUNG: She's a well-educated woman. Did she honestly fail to recognize what the demands of the job were?
DOUGHERTY: You know, she says that, up until the last minute, when she was crowned Miss Universe, she really didn't understand all of the requirements of the job. And then, when she finally did, she thought: "Well, I have my career back home and I want to be Miss Universe. Something has to give. And I can't do both equally well." So she gave up the crown.
CHUNG: Well, of course there was a lot of national pride when she was crowned, because she was the first Miss Universe from Russia. But now is everyone upset?
DOUGHERTY: Well, there are a lot of people who are really disappointed, especially back in St. Petersburg, where she comes from.
But you're hearing a little bit of questioning about why she took on this type of job if she really wasn't going to follow it to the end. And that's just beginning. But, of course, basically, it's real disappointment.
CHUNG: Jill, so, does she disappear into oblivion?
DOUGHERTY: Well, she of course goes back and defends her dissertation and then gets her degree. But I have to tell you, I was watching an interview with her and she was hinting broadly that maybe she might want to do something connected with television, Connie.
CHUNG: Ah, tsk, tsk.
CNN's Jill Dougherty in Moscow.
And joining us now: the new Miss Universe as of today, Panama's Justine Pasek; and the president of the Miss Universe Organization, Paula Shugart.
Thank you so much for being with us.
Paula, this woman is an educated woman. She is a police officer and she is a graduate law student. She's interested in her education and her career. Isn't this the type of role model that you're looking for?
PAULA SHUGART, PRESIDENT, MISS UNIVERSITY ORGANIZATION: Absolutely. Oxana is a very intelligent, very smart and very beautiful woman.
CHUNG: But she's history?
SHUGART: Yes, she is.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: You felt she had to be dismissed?
SHUGART: Yes. She was not able to fulfill the obligations of a Miss Universe, as spelled in the contract.
CHUNG: Justine, now, I think Paula and the Miss Universe Organization flew you to the United States, right -- I mean back to New York, I guess.
JUSTINE PASEK, MISS UNIVERSE: Yes.
CHUNG: But they didn't tell you. Why?
PASEK: Well, they have explained to me now that they were afraid it would get out of my hands and into the press before they were ready to announce it. So that was the reason. And I can understand that.
CHUNG: So, the ride from the airport to the hotel or wherever you were going, did Paula tell you?
PASEK: Exactly.
(LAUGHTER) PASEK: Just as soon as I got in the car, she told me the situation and that that made me the new Miss Universe, which was a huge shock for me at first. But it has all gone smoothly. And I'm very happy to have this opportunity.
CHUNG: I know it isn't the way you dreamed, right? But it's just fine, isn't it?
(LAUGHTER)
PASEK: Yes. And my experience of doing the three weeks of the pageant in Puerto Rico were very positive. And that night at the broadcast, I had so much fun that I felt really satisfied by the result. So I had that satisfaction there.
And to become Miss Universe afterwards in a different situation, it has all -- it's pretty interesting for me. It is different, though.
(LAUGHTER)
CHUNG: Yes, very different.
Well, congratulations.
PASEK: Thank you very much.
CHUNG: You are beautiful, and the most beautiful woman in the world. So thank you so much for being with us.
Paula, thank you.
SHUGART: Thank you.
CHUNG: And we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CHUNG: Tomorrow: another set of twins joined at the head. This time, the odds against them are even higher. We'll talk with their doctor.
And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Senator John McCain on attacking Iraq.
Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night.
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Tony Blair Argues the Case Against Iraq>
