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CNN Connie Chung Tonight

Police Link Latest Shooting at Virginia Shopping Center to Washington Area Sniper; Police Have Description of Suspicious Person

Aired October 15, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This a CNN special report.
Live from Washington: Connie Chung.

CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.

Police today linked the latest shooting at a Virginia shopping center last night to the 10 others by the Washington area sniper. Late today, police, based on eyewitness accounts, say they have a description of a suspicious person or people at the scene. Eyewitnesses also gave police partial license plate information.

In addition, a new description and composite of the sniper's van has been released today as well. And this late development: The Pentagon is getting involved, agreeing to lend its airborne surveillance capabilities to the hunt for the sniper. We'll have full details on all aspects and every angle of this story.

But first, let's get right to CNN's Ed Lavandera at the scene of last night's shooting in Falls Church, Virginia, at the Seven Corners shopping mall -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, the Home Depot parking lot is the structure that you see behind me.

It was almost 24 hours ago Linda Franklin was murdered by what authorities now believe is the D.C. area sniper that has been terrorizing this area for the last 13 days. And as you mentioned off the top, in this case, they have strong witnesses. They have found -- gotten information on partial license plate information, which could be a very significant break, if that is able to come through for authorities.

But, at this point, it's not enough to pass on to the public. So authorities here continue to do their investigation. They've been working the area here, combing the area, working for -- looking for clues and evidence that might be around this area. Sources have told CNN that the sniper or the suspect's vehicle was leaving the area. And there's more information on that that we've learned from sources throughout the day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): When the sound of a single rifle shot echoed through the Home Depot parking lot, witnesses say everyone around knew instantly what happened. Perhaps that's why investigators are saying they have a good number of strong witnesses, something they haven't had in the other sniper killings.

TOM MANGER, FAIRFAX CO. POLICE CHIEF: There was some additional information that we were able to get from last night's case. And I am confident that, ultimately, that information is going to lead us to an arrest in this case.

LAVANDERA: The Home Depot parking lot appears well-protected. Concrete walls and a restaurant building block the view through the sides of the two-story parking structure. The best view of where Linda Franklin was murdered is from across Route 50.

Sources tell CNN it's believed the suspect's vehicle left the scene driving east on Route 50 toward downtown Washington, then made a U-turn and disappeared on to the 495 Beltway. Despite surveillance helicopters and roadblocks, where every vehicle was stopped, the sniper got away again.

MANGER: There are a fair number of ways to leave that area. We had officers in the area as quickly as we could in an attempt to get any information we could about folks that were in that area.

LAVANDERA: Witnesses at this scene describe seeing a light- colored Chevy Astro van like this one, with a ladder rack and the left rear taillight out.

But at task force headquarters in Montgomery County, Maryland, investigators also released composite images of a van seen at the Exxon gas station shooting in Fredericksburg, Virginia, last Friday. Authorities are looking for one vehicle, but witnesses had different takes on what that van looked like. It's evident authorities have found some of the most useful witnesses since the sniper killing started. But despite this, there is still not enough to release a sketch of a suspect.

CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: If we have information that we feel needs to be in the public arena, would be helpful in the case, we will present that information.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Now, Connie, to give you an idea of what the situation was like here last night just after the shooting had occurred, we talked about the rapid police response that came into this area.

But most of the traffic that was backed up and where the inspections were going on, the roadblocks had been set up, was on the eastbound part of Route 50 heading into downtown Washington. We drove out to this scene last night on the westbound part of Route 50 and had no trouble getting here, as traffic was -- there was no one along the way blocking driving maneuvers along that part of the highway -- Connie, back to you.

CHUNG: All right, Ed Lavandera in Falls Church tonight, thank you.

Now on the new development: that police believe they have enough to go on to put together a possible description of the sniper or snipers. As for the motive, could it be terrorism? Well, the Bush administration says it's not ruling out such a link, but local police seem to be.

CNN's justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, broke this story about a composite sketch that might emerge later.

Kelli, what can you tell us about it and how police have been putting it together?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, law enforcement sources tell us that they have three separate accounts from two different locations, one of those locations being the site of last night's shooting, where witnesses described seeing a male, an olive- to dark-skinned male in a white van.

One of those witnesses, though, described seeing two dark-skinned males in a white van. They are working with investigators, trying to get a sketch put together. But I have to say that law enforcement sources have warned us along the way that these individual -- the individual or individuals may have absolutely nothing to do with the sniper attacks. They are people that witnesses saw on the scene.

They may have very legitimate reasons for being there. They have to get a sketch together, figure out who it is that they are dealing with, and then try to figure out what that person was doing at that location at that time.

CHUNG: Question them, at least.

ARENA: Yes.

CHUNG: Now, I think that something that has been on the minds of all of us is, Washington, of course, was a target on 9/11. There was the anthrax attack. Could this be a terrorist organization, even al Qaeda, somehow connected with it?

ARENA: They're not closing the door. Officials are not closing the door on that. However, there is absolutely no evidence, not one shred of evidence to suggest that this is a terror-related attack, terrorism as has been defined in the last 12 months, since September 11.

Investigators point out two issues. They say, No. 1, al Qaeda terrorists do not leave tarot cards on the scene with, "Dear Policeman, I am God" on it.

CHUNG: Although -- may I interject -- that may not have been the actual sniper.

ARENA: Right. It might not have been, but they are operating on that belief that it was. And secondly, usually by this time, if it is a terror organization involved, someone takes credit. They are fighting for a cause. They are attacking for a reason. So they will communicate in some way to say: "Hey, this is why we're doing this. This is what we're about." They've had no communication. So investigators do not believe that that is what we're dealing with at this time, although they have not closed the door -- but no evidence. And that's really what we have to deal with.

CHUNG: And very quickly, just in five seconds, the FBI is not heading up this investigation, as we understand it. The FBI is helping. Why isn't it coordinating and overseeing this investigation?

ARENA: Well, state, local and federal law enforcement are equal partners in this effort. You have 400, though, FBI agents. This does not mean that you don't have the full force of the federal government involved in this investigation: 400 agents, 250 ATF agents and analysts. You have Secret Service, you have DEA, you have the U.S. Marshals all involved in some capacity in this investigation, either providing manpower or laboratories or equipment to bring to bear here.

So they are equal partners, state, local and federal, are involved.

CHUNG: Kelli Arena, thank you.

We mentioned earlier that the Pentagon will be assisting in the search for the killer. It's a highly unusual step and it's being shrouded in a good deal of secrecy.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr broke this story as well. And she's here to tell us about it. We obviously have received the word from Secretary Rumsfeld that the military will be connected to it.

But here's Barbara Starr's report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The plan calls for the military to provide reconnaissance and surveillance equipment that might be used to try and quickly find the sniper within moments of a next attack. In addition, advanced communications gear will be used to allow the authorities to react faster.

Law enforcement authorities will request the equipment as needed but the military will have a tightly-controlled role. Troops will only operate the equipment, passing data to law enforcement authorities who would be alongside. It would be up to civilian authorities to chase and arrest any suspect.

Under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, the military is prohibited from any role in domestic law enforcement. This is not the first time the military has assisted in law enforcement, however. For several years, troops have worked alongside civilian authorities in drug interdiction, looking for suspects but not participating in actual arrests.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Now, Connie, tonight the Pentagon has said they are going to use airborne reconnaissance and surveillance platforms. But they have asked the news media not to reveal any specific details about the exact type of equipment being used for fear of jeopardizing the investigation.

And they emphasize that civilian law enforcement remains completely in charge of this investigation. But if the sniper does strike again, the military is now ready to join the hunt -- Connie.

CHUNG: Barbara, how rare is this?

STARR: Well, as our report indicated, there have been these types of assistance activities, specifically in drug interdiction. But there's never been a law enforcement case exactly like this one.

The military, we now know, had been working on this package of assistance for the last couple of days. They wanted to wait until civilian law enforcement really felt they needed it. And now apparently that has happened. And we expect to see some of this to begin being offered up as soon as possibly as tomorrow.

CHUNG: All right, thank you, Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon.

The nerve center for the sniper hunt is in Montgomery County, Maryland. CNN's Wolf Blitzer has been there in Rockville covering the investigation every step of the way today. And he's there tonight.

Wolf, tell us, you just heard Kelli Arena report that police are trying to put together a composite sketch of someone they would like to question. Have you received any word about it? That story is from sources. Have you received any definitive word from Montgomery County?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they would love very much to be able to release a picture, a composite illustration, of the suspect or suspects involved in this. And they've got some eyewitness accounts of the individual or individuals who may be involved in these sniping attacks.

But, at this point, they don't have enough hard eyewitness accounts that could justify releasing a sketch of an individual. And, as a result, they haven't done it yet. But you better believe they would love to do that. They did release here today in Rockville, Maryland, two photographs of these two vans that we're seeing. These are images, sketches of the Chevy Astro van, as well as Ford Econoline, with these luggage racks on top that were described variously by eyewitnesses.

Remember, Connie, earlier in the week, they released this box- like truck that was also seen at one of the shootings. So they have got various vehicles they are looking for, but they don't have a good illustration of a suspect yet. Once they do, they'll be releasing that. You can count on that.

CHUNG: Wolf, there are so many agencies involved in this investigation. You have Maryland, Virginia, D.C., ATF, FBI. How is Chief Moose of Montgomery County managing all of these organizations? As we just heard, the FBI is not taking it over.

BLITZER: The Montgomery County police chief, who works right behind me here in Montgomery County, he's in overall charge. Remember, the first five deaths occurred right here in Montgomery County.

There have been four others since then, one in the District of Columbia, three now in Virginia. But he's in overall charge. He has got an enormous amount of assistance from the ATF, the FBI, as well as all the other jurisdictions, all of the other counties. But he's taking the lead right now. There's apparently no desire, no inclination to go ahead and put the FBI in charge.

The FBI agent in charge here in Montgomery County, Gary Bald, says repeatedly that they are not considering that, at least not now. And that has not changed as a result of the death today -- last night, actually -- of Linda Franklin, an FBI analyst, who was killed by coincidence at that Home Depot out in Virginia.

CHUNG: All right, Wolf Blitzer, thank you.

Coming up: the eyewitness accounts, what they saw, why so many questions remain unanswered; plus, a talk with one woman who can tell us about the latest sniper hit -- when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: One reason police exhibited a new level of confidence today was that the sniper has, too. By opening fire in a more heavily-trafficked area, the sniper increased the odds that someone would see something. They did.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve has more now on the valuable witnesses and what they saw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw her on the floor laying down and she covered and her cart behind here with the stuff from Home Depot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We went outside and offered to help because we're in the medical profession and the police said there's nothing left to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw them go after a guy in a van that was parked down across the street.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this investigation, eyewitnesses are as valuable as gold, and the shooting in a crowded parking lot provided a wealth of them.

MICHAEL BOUCHARD, ATF: Witnesses are becoming more aware of what's going on and we're getting more information each time.

MESERVE: Witnesses Monday night have provided vehicle descriptions, partial license plate numbers, and according to law enforcement sources, are working with officials to come up with a composite drawing of a man acting suspiciously at the scene. Eyewitness testimony from earlier sniper slayings resulted in graphics of a white box truck and two white vans.

CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: We'd like to be real clear, sir, that they are composites, that when you deal with victims that we don't all see the world the same.

MESERVE: And that is just one of the limitations of eyewitness testimony. Some studies have shown that high levels of stress can impair a witness' memory, that, when a weapon is used, witnesses focus on the weapon, rather than the shooter, and that there is little or no correlation between a witness' confidence in their memory and the accuracy of the memory. Investigators in this case acknowledge different people have different powers of observation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Specifically, when you conduct an investigation and you receive information from a witness, you not only just take their information, but you evaluate how strong their information is, how reliable the information is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: It helps that, in the Falls Church shooting, there are several people to talk to. As one law enforcement official told me, one person may not see what another person does, but if you collect enough stories, you can put together a pretty accurate picture -- Connie.

CHUNG: Jeanne, are authorities concerned about witnesses being influenced by what they see in the media?

MESERVE: Yes, they talked about that specifically today in relationship to the release of those composites of the two white vans. Chief Moose spoke of the possibility of memory contamination. And research shows that really does take place.

They've taken research subjects and they have shown them a significant forensic event on videotape or in a slide show. They then have fed them some misinformation. And then later, they give them a memory test and they find that people do absorb the bad information. It does affect what they remember -- Connie.

CHUNG: All right, Jeanne Meserve, at the update desk, thank you.

I know Jeanne actually was at that parking lot at Home Depot in Virginia just last weekend. We'll turn to a woman now who was at the parking lot last night, when the sniper claimed his next victim.

Joy Zucker, thank you for being with us.

JOY ZUCKER, WITNESS: Thank you. CHUNG: You arrived just minutes, two minutes after the shot was fired. What did you see?

ZUCKER: Well, it's interesting. I was actually up on the upper deck doing errands at some other stores and came around the bend to come down to a lower parking lot and was immediately passed by a police officer who was at a high rate of speed with his lights on. In fact, I had to stop to avoid being hit by him.

And it was uncanny, because I really didn't think anything of that at the time. I went down to the lower deck, pulled right into the lot. And, as I got out of the car and went to walk away from my car, I noticed...

CHUNG: So you were going to Home Depot.

ZUCKER: Going to Home Depot, had an errand to run.

And, as I walked away from my car, I noticed that there was a police car with its lights on parked in one of the lanes, just the lane over from where I was parked. So I walked across, tried to look between the cars to see what I can see, and, in fact, saw that the police car was parked in front of what seemed to be the victim.

CHUNG: And it appeared to you, of course, that she had already passed away?

ZUCKER: I couldn't see the entire body at that point, but it was already covered with what we've come to know as that covering.

CHUNG: You were able to talk to witnesses?

ZUCKER: Yes.

CHUNG: And what did they tell you?

ZUCKER: Well, eyewitnesses were inside the store. In fact, when I, at that point, turned and looked to the front of the store, that entire glass enclosure at the front of the entrance was just mobbed with people. There had to be 25 to 30 people just standing there looking in disbelief down that lane.

And as I went inside and asked: "What happened? When did this happen?" they said: "It just happened. You just missed it." I had no other idea, because I had never heard the shot.

CHUNG: Right. They heard the shot.

ZUCKER: Well, there were a couple of people. And of the eyewitnesses that I spoke with, one had said that he just was walking to his car, had just passed her, and he heard a sound. He initially thought it was a tire that had blown out. He turned and looked and in fact saw the woman fall to the ground.

CHUNG: Oh, my gosh.

ZUCKER: And at that point, he realized it was in fact a gun shot.

There was another eyewitness who was walking out of the store at the time, gave the exact same description, and said that, as she was walking toward that very same area, heard the sound, saw the woman drop to the ground. And these people were -- they were shocked and they were mesmerized. It was one of those, "It's unfolding in front of my eyes." And you see that at crime scenes.

But this was different. This was -- the magnitude of it hit every one of them. And every one of them had the word sniper on their mind.

CHUNG: I was born and raised in Washington and then also lived in the suburbs. And I have friends and family here who are genuinely fearful. Could you feel the fear there?

ZUCKER: It was palpable. You know, it was interesting. There were a few people who were anxious to leave. They just wanted to get home.

CHUNG: Could they, though?

ZUCKER: No. Police were very quick. It was amazing how quick Fairfax County police had shut down that lot, cordoned off the area, prevented anybody from walking back to their cars and disturbing what might have been the crime scene, in terms of beyond the actual area where the victim was.

You heard the helicopters. You saw the activity on the major arteries that are adjacent to that store. And you could see their presence immediately. And it was intense. It was not just Fairfax County. You saw the other jurisdictions. You saw the federal officials. And it was amazing that the people -- outside of the few people who really just wanted to get home to their kids or get home because they were tired, no one else wanted to move.

They were going to play their part...

CHUNG: And help.

ZUCKER: ... and help. And these were committed residents, Falls Church and other areas, that -- they were not going anywhere. They want this man caught, and they will do what they have to. And there were people who even expressed, if he were there, they would take him down themselves. These were not vengeful vigilantes. These were concerned citizens who said: "Now you've hit home. Now you've hit home."

CHUNG: Absolutely. I was watching last night. And it was a rather unprecedented show of force, and quick.

ZUCKER: I'll tell you something. First of all, these residents were told at one point: "You're not going to be able to get in your cars tonight. You're going to be here a while. We need to talk to all of you. So make the calls you need to make. Let them know you're not coming home right away. But we have to maintain the integrity of this."

These people stood there and there was no question. They knew that they were well-protected. They knew that they, living in this community, had law enforcement support. They knew that the magnitude of this investigation was going to -- they're going to merit the finding of this man. There was no question of that. And they were very secure in that knowledge.

CHUNG: OK, Joy Zucker, thank you so much for being with us.

ZUCKER: Thank you.

CHUNG: Glad you are safe.

Still ahead: communities living in fear.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: As the hunt for the sniper continues, individual communities are struggling with the fear generated by the shootings.

Joining us now are: from Richmond, Virginia, Lieutenant Governor Tim Kaine; also Mayor Fred Robinson of Bowie, Maryland; and Washington Mayor Anthony Williams.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate it.

Mayor Robinson, can you tell us, what are the residents there telling you in terms of their fear, in terms of their ability to move around?

FRED ROBINSON, MAYOR OF BOWIE, MARYLAND: Well, they're very concerned. And they're obviously anxious. They're concerned about their children. Obviously, the incident occurred in one of our middle schools. So they are showing that concern by walking their children to school and paying attention.

And they are staying away from some of the restaurants and those things. But they're cautious, but optimistic that the police will resolve this fairly quickly.

CHUNG: Lieutenant Governor, I know that you also have children in the system. And you have been concerned about what your citizenry have been reporting to you. But, in addition to that, I know that you have friends who own gas stations. Tell us about them.

LT. GOV. TIM KAINE, VIRGINIA: Friends and supporters all up and down the interstate between here and Washington own gas station right near the interstate. I frequently stop at the station that's the Exxon in Massaponax, where the shooting was on Friday.

And they are very, very concerned about safety and what to do to keep their customers and their employees safe. It is paralyzing the whole region with sort of a psychological intimidation. And that's why we need to move quickly to catch the suspect.

CHUNG: Yes, sir.

Mayor Williams, I know that there are a lot of surveillance cameras around Washington, D.C. Is there any sense that these will be able to be useful in perhaps detecting the sniper or at least at keeping the sniper away from the Washington, D.C. area?

ANTHONY WILLIAMS, MAYOR OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: I'll put it this way. I think surveillance cameras and the density of an urban situation may be helpful in some ways.

But I got to tell you, our citizens, our children, are certainly emotionally involved. We lost a person. And any loss in this community is really like a loss to family. There's an impact on business here...

CHUNG: I was just about to ask you that.

WILLIAMS: Yes -- that's palpable, because people are wondering, "Well, should I invest?" We're encouraging them to. And so far, we haven't seen major cancellations. But it's a big, big worry.

CHUNG: And what about retail sales? Have you a pulse beat on that?

WILLIAMS: Well, the sense is, you've heard from -- I can't speak with intimate knowledge, but I've certainly had reported to me and briefed to me that retail sales throughout the area have gone down.

They've talked personally to merchants in some places here in the city where they are not what they have been. We've struggled to come back from 9/11 and the anthrax attack. Now we're hitting this. It's really trying to reassure people, and especially children.

CHUNG: Mayor Robinson, is there an economic impact in your area? Because I might point out, we looked into whether Michaels craft stores have been impacted. And, indeed, we were told by a spokesperson that sales have been impacted by all of this. And, also, retail across the board has been impacted.

ROBINSON: Well, I think we've noticed a drop off in patronage at the restaurants. Some of the restaurants are actually even closing earlier than they normally would. And it's clear, from looking at the parking lots, that the malls and things are less populated than one would expect.

CHUNG: Lieutenant Governor, the same for you?

KAINE: The same in Virginia. But, you know, just this evening, our governor was on television announcing a series of budget cuts because we, like most states, are facing serious budget challenges. This is an expensive investigation, to coordinate it between state, local and federal law enforcement authorities.

But one of the few areas of the budget that's not being cut is public safety funds, because we need to make sure that we invest the resources necessary to solve this.

CHUNG: Lieutenant Governor, the governor of Maryland has ordered a ban on hunting to prevent reports of hearing shots and having authorities go out on those runs. Do you know if the governor in Virginia is thinking of doing the same thing?

KAINE: I think that would be highly unlikely in Virginia. I haven't spoken directly with Governor Warner about that as an option. But the areas where the shootings have occurred in Virginia are so built up that there are not areas where there's a lot of hunting occurring. And so that shouldn't be a factor that would cause any confusion in the investigation.

CHUNG: All right, Lieutenant Governor, I know that you are on the Virginia Anti-Terrorism Task Force.

KAINE: Yes.

CHUNG: What can you tell us about any of the meetings that you've had with the task force?

KAINE: Well, we had a full task force meeting today, which was our monthly meeting, and talked about this incident and about sort of what the definition of terrorism is. And, obviously, there's a question about the perpetrator. Are they connected with terrorism, just the whole notion of what terrorism is?

Certainly, part of this crime seems to be to intimidate millions of people, in addition to the victims who have suffered so grievously. In some sense, that is exactly what terrorism is: an attempt to injure and also inflict psychological damage.

CHUNG: Thank you, sir.

We had talked earlier about the question of whether or not there might be a terrorist organization connected. But, of course, the federal government is currently saying there seems to be no connection. Have you been given any information, Mr. Mayor, as to what could possibly be behind this?

WILLIAMS: I have not been given that information formally or informally. But I'll tell you, I agree with the president that this doesn't seem to be or appear to be the act of an official terrorist organization. But I think everyone would agree that this has a terrorist impact in the level of uncertainty and fear that it causes in our community and families.

CHUNG: Without question.

We appreciate your being with us, Mr. Mayor. And we appreciate your being with us, and Lieutenant Governor Kaine as well.

KAINE: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: Up next: If it's not terrorism, what drives the sniper to kill? Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Terrorism: It's just one suspect of speculation about the sniper. There are plenty of other theories. Is the sniper a tarot card enthusiast, a psychopath who wants to instill fear in the communities? Is he motivated by the sight of victims dying? Are there any meaningful geographic patterns? Where did the sniper learn to shoot? For every question, the answer right now is, we don't know.

Joining us now from New York to help figure out what we can do and what we do know is former New York City homicide detective Bo Dietl and criminologist Casey Jordan.

Thank you both for being with us.

Bo, you just heard us talking about the whole question of whether a terrorist organization might be involved, even to go as far as al Qaeda. And we were told that that was dismissed, partly because they would have taken responsibility, and that's the pattern. However, I think it begs us to ask, nothing fit a pattern on 9/11. We were surprised at everything that occurred, the tragedy that occurred there. So why couldn't this be a terrorist connection?

BO DIETL, FORMER NEW YORK CITY HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: You know, being a detective, first of all, you don't eliminate anything. But I'm saying, as far as the no responsibility being taken, we're into two weeks into these shootings.

And they are not snipers. They're homicidal maniacs that are shooting people. I don't like to give these people any credit. I think it's more than one. But to say that it's terrorists from the Middle East, they would have taken credit. They would have frozen our country and nobody would want to leave their houses. It's a perfect time to take credit for it and they haven't. And that's of their modus operandi.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Let me just jump over to Casey Jordan.

Do you think it is one or two or more individuals?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: My initial reaction was that this was the work of a lone gunman. But as time has passed and different eyewitness accounts have come in, I certainly would argue that it's conceivable that it's two. Right now, I'm pretty much on a 50/50 split. And I don't think that it really matters whether it's one or two. It matters, of course, that we catch them.

CHUNG: And back to Bo.

Why do you think it is more than one?

DIETL: Well, Connie, on October 3, when the four shootings in a matter of two hours, four homicides in two hours, that's when I felt as though there was more than one.

We've investigated a lot of homicides. And once a person is shot, they get whatever thrill they get; second one shot, thrill. But now you're going to four different people in a matter of two hours. It's like one person pushing the other person.

The other thing is the randomness of who is being shot: man, woman, black, white, Indian, a little boy shot in the back. You have such a random shooting. You always look for a motive, means and opportunity when you're investigating a homicide case. My thing always comes...

CHUNG: But, Casey Jordan, is there a motive that you can think of? Or does it even matter what the motive would be?

JORDAN: I think that it's pretty much a waste of time at this juncture to focus on what could be the motive. There is something, a phrase we use in criminology, called the X factor. It is the unknown issue that is very specific to the psyche, to the mind of the shooter himself. We can't know it. It could be any of 100 things.

And while you can always speculate and you have to be wondering, at the same time, in this case, you have to go on the hard evidence that you have and use that to try to catch him, because psychological profiling is probably not going to get us very far in this particular case.

CHUNG: Why not?

JORDAN: Because, again, as Bo said, the randomness of the crime indicates that there is no pattern. In fact, everyone says, what's the pattern? I say it's the randomness.

The fact that he is all over geographically and there's no consistency with regard to the victim -- the consistency is with, of course, the weapon of choice, the one-shot signature. This indicates that there is something that, in my mind, this shooter or shooters is trying to prove, probably to himself or to an imaginary enemy that could be as simple as society in general.

CHUNG: Bo Dietl, I know that you have the theory that this is someone who has played those violent video games. On what basis do you have that opinion?

DIETL: Well, you have to look at the investigation in the Columbine case.

In the investigation of the Columbine case, these kids were very actively involved with a game called "Doom," which is a sniper game, shooting people. And in that game, there is a game called "I am God," where you take -- where you can't get shot. It sounds like a joke as far as what I'm saying about video games.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: It does, actually, frankly. I have to tell you that it sounds like an improbability.

DIETL: OK. But what I'm trying to say is, do you know what the psyche of these adolescents playing this game? They play for six, eight hours a day. Then, all of a sudden, they became this person.

Obviously, the people who are doing this crime are not very out, forward persons. They're good to shoot from 100 yards away. They can't confront the person. They're cowards, in the sense that they can shoot from far away and they don't want to face anybody.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Are you suggesting that they played these video games years ago and that they are now in their 20s or 30s?

DIETL: I'm suggesting that they are possibly 17-, 18-, 19, 20- year-old kids that are not in the mainstream of the other kids. And they are possibly loser-type people. And this game now they're living out in real life. And they're out there.

It's obvious that they are on a frenzy now. There's no means or any kind of direction there. You could get any profile you want. You're not going to figure them out. They are out there committing murders. You have got to look at a motive. And that is a motive, believe it or not, that they want to be able to shoot from far away and body count. Everyone wants a body count.

It's known from a lot of people that investigated the Columbine case that the whole thing was, all these other homicides, they want to have more body counts, get more numbers. There's nothing here...

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Let me jump over to Casey Jordan.

JORDAN: I don't...

CHUNG: Yes, go ahead.

JORDAN: I don't disagree. I would argue that we have to be a little bit careful in terms of linking it as a cause.

But can violent video games be a contributing factor that might actually serve as a springboard for unstable people? Yes, I absolutely agree that it can be. And people who say don't blame video games are certainly not unstable people who are susceptible to the power of such popular media images.

CHUNG: But I have to believe, Casey Jordan, that this is much bigger than that or much -- I can't imagine that this is the core of what the sniper has been mulling over.

JORDAN: Not the core.

CHUNG: Go ahead. JORDAN: Connie, this person may have snapped and begun with this horrifying spree, as Bo pointed out, four deaths in two hours. But he or they were not created overnight. They are a product of an environment that's probably been years in the making of the actual circumstances which led to the events.

They may not have begun the shootings for the purpose of seeking attention and having a major strategic chess game with law enforcement and the media, but that's what has happened. And I think that they've been seduced by it and now that could be a contributing factor as well. It's so complex, you cannot isolate one factor and blame it solely.

CHUNG: All right, great.

Casey Jordan, thank you.

Both Dietl, thank you as well.

And still ahead: focusing on what we do know. The weapons, the ballistics, the telltale markings, will they lead us to a killer?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: While speculation multiplies about the Washington sniper's identity, motive and methods, very few pieces of hard evidence exist. Perhaps the most important of those pieces are the deadly bullets themselves, .223 caliber. What do these bullets tell police? And how much do we know about the gun that's being used?

Mike Brooks is a former Washington police detective who now serves as our law enforcement analyst.

Mike, thank you for being with us.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good evening, Connie.

CHUNG: Tell us, is there new information about the weapon itself?

BROOKS: Well, there's not any new information. Law enforcement believes that it could be from a number of different weapons. But they are focusing on one particular weapon. And that's a Colt AR-15 type weapon that does fire a .223 round.

What I have here is an actual Colt AR-15, which is the civilian version of the M-16, which we've seen over the years and is in movies and with the military. It's a standard-issue weapon of the U.S. military.

CHUNG: But is it easily accessible to a civilian?

BROOKS: There was a ban on these back a number of years ago. But there are some versions of these that are out there, sporter models, other models of this particular weapon that people can buy at gun shows and also through catalogs.

CHUNG: Mike, are you relatively certain that it was not a hunting rifle? Or is that your assessment?

BROOKS: Well, talking to law enforcement, some of the shell casings have had some marks on it -- we'll talk about that in a second -- which would lead them to believe that it was a semiautomatic similar to the AR-15.

CHUNG: All right, let's get to the bullet and the shell casings. What can you tell us?

BROOKS: Well, the bullet that's being used is -- the round, I should say -- is the .223 Remington round. It doesn't look very big. It's kind of a version of a .22, which a lot of people are familiar with.

The velocity is approximately 3,000 to 3,500 feet per second, which makes it a high-powered weapon. And, as you see, the shell casing is fairly large, but the projectile itself is fairly small. It's about from this point in the shell casing up. And that's what actually is fired out of the weapon.

Now, there have been two shell casings that have been recovered so far, Connie, one down in Spotsylvania County, Virginia, at the Michaels store in the parking lot there, where the woman did survive the shooting, and the other at the Tasker Middle School, where the 13- year-old boy was wounded. Now, there's a lot of things you can get from a shell casing.

CHUNG: All right, let me just pick up on one question, which I'm sure gun enthusiasts know the answer to. But for those who don't, can you fire an AR-15 from a driver's seat with the steering wheel right in front of you? Is that possible?

BROOKS: Oh, that's very possible. In fact, the inside of a vehicle, you can rest it on the edge. It makes a great shooting platform for any shooter. And it's very possible that the shooter can be shooting from inside of the car. And that would also be one of the reasons that there haven't been many shell cases that have been recovered on the scene, because the shell casing would go inside the car.

CHUNG: I see.

Let's talk about the scope, then. Tell us.

BROOKS: Well, this particular weapon has a scope, which we're seeing. There's a number of different scopes. There's all kinds of technology nowadays. This particular scope is a 20-powered scope.

Now, a lot of scopes, there are some on the market called an aimpoint, which is very, very easy to learn how to use. You basically look through the optics of the scope, look through and you see a little dot. You line that dot up with your target and you pull the trigger. It's very easy to do once you get the scope itself zeroed in on the target.

CHUNG: All right, I have one final question for you, Mike. We have talked about the vehicle that authorities are looking for. But, apparently, there is this white van or white box truck. Why would the sniper keep using the same vehicle, if indeed it is the sniper who is driving this white vehicle?

BROOKS: Well, that's a good question. And that's a question that law enforcement keeps asking themselves: Why would this person use this?

Now, the box truck that the composite came out on Saturday evening from Montgomery County, now, that vehicle is only being used and they are only looking for that vehicle in relationship to the shootings in Montgomery County. Now, the vehicle that they put out -- the two composites that were put out today that we're seeing, one is for a Chevy Astro van and the other for a Ford Econovan, both with ladder racks on top of the vehicles.

Now, if you'll recall, the shooting in Spotsylvania County, they said it was a white Chevy Astro van with a ladder on top. So we see this. Last night, they said it was a cream color. But that could be because of lighting. But people should keep an open mind. They believe that these are involved. They have also mentioned other vehicles. So they should keep that in mind, if someone is nearby one of the shooting scenes.

CHUNG: All right, Mike Brooks, CNN law enforcement analyst, we appreciate your being with us. Thank you.

BROOKS: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: And still ahead: She was a mother of two, a cancer survivor, and she died with a single shot to the head just about 24 hours ago. Who was Linda Franklin?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: By all accounts, the sniper shot down Linda Franklin last night, just about 24 hours ago, at random. So we wouldn't know. He did not care, possibly, that Linda Franklin spent her days helping protect America against terrorism or that she spent her days trying to make America safer for families just like hers.

CNN's Bob Franken now with more on why we should care about a woman who was nothing more to the sniper than a target.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Linda Franklin lived her life in quiet anonymity, a 47-year-old mother of two adult children, but her life was taken in the unspeakable, incomprehensible way that has traumatized the area, and once again left a family in agony. BILL MURRAY, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: The Franklin family is devastated by this tragic event. Linda's family is shocked by the senseless loss of life.

FRANKEN: Her death was laden with tragic irony. Linda Franklin worked for the FBI, an intelligence analyst for the Infrastructure Protection Center. Sources say, however, that there's no indication her killer knew that. FBI officials joined family and friends throughout the day, trying to offer comfort to at least one of the adult children and her husband, Ted, a civilian computer engineer who was by her side when she was gunned down.

Federal Bureau of Investigation Director Robert Mueller called Linda Franklin a dedicated employee whose death has left her colleagues deeply shocked and angry. The Franklins were planning to move from their condominium to another residence this Friday, and it was widely believed that it was at least possible the preparations made the fateful trip to the Home Depot necessary. She was looking ahead after a double mastectomy and she was still undergoing physical therapy in her battle against breast cancer.

(on camera): After all that, her life was suddenly snuffed out, her death made all the more unbearable by the question her family and the entire community are asking: Why?

Bob Franken, CNN, Arlington, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Tomorrow, we'll have the latest on the search for the sniper.

And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Why have Harry Belafonte and Colin Powell been feuding in public lately?

From Washington, thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and see you tomorrow.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com




Washington Area Sniper; Police Have Description of Suspicious Person>


Aired October 15, 2002 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This a CNN special report.
Live from Washington: Connie Chung.

CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.

Police today linked the latest shooting at a Virginia shopping center last night to the 10 others by the Washington area sniper. Late today, police, based on eyewitness accounts, say they have a description of a suspicious person or people at the scene. Eyewitnesses also gave police partial license plate information.

In addition, a new description and composite of the sniper's van has been released today as well. And this late development: The Pentagon is getting involved, agreeing to lend its airborne surveillance capabilities to the hunt for the sniper. We'll have full details on all aspects and every angle of this story.

But first, let's get right to CNN's Ed Lavandera at the scene of last night's shooting in Falls Church, Virginia, at the Seven Corners shopping mall -- Ed.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, the Home Depot parking lot is the structure that you see behind me.

It was almost 24 hours ago Linda Franklin was murdered by what authorities now believe is the D.C. area sniper that has been terrorizing this area for the last 13 days. And as you mentioned off the top, in this case, they have strong witnesses. They have found -- gotten information on partial license plate information, which could be a very significant break, if that is able to come through for authorities.

But, at this point, it's not enough to pass on to the public. So authorities here continue to do their investigation. They've been working the area here, combing the area, working for -- looking for clues and evidence that might be around this area. Sources have told CNN that the sniper or the suspect's vehicle was leaving the area. And there's more information on that that we've learned from sources throughout the day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): When the sound of a single rifle shot echoed through the Home Depot parking lot, witnesses say everyone around knew instantly what happened. Perhaps that's why investigators are saying they have a good number of strong witnesses, something they haven't had in the other sniper killings.

TOM MANGER, FAIRFAX CO. POLICE CHIEF: There was some additional information that we were able to get from last night's case. And I am confident that, ultimately, that information is going to lead us to an arrest in this case.

LAVANDERA: The Home Depot parking lot appears well-protected. Concrete walls and a restaurant building block the view through the sides of the two-story parking structure. The best view of where Linda Franklin was murdered is from across Route 50.

Sources tell CNN it's believed the suspect's vehicle left the scene driving east on Route 50 toward downtown Washington, then made a U-turn and disappeared on to the 495 Beltway. Despite surveillance helicopters and roadblocks, where every vehicle was stopped, the sniper got away again.

MANGER: There are a fair number of ways to leave that area. We had officers in the area as quickly as we could in an attempt to get any information we could about folks that were in that area.

LAVANDERA: Witnesses at this scene describe seeing a light- colored Chevy Astro van like this one, with a ladder rack and the left rear taillight out.

But at task force headquarters in Montgomery County, Maryland, investigators also released composite images of a van seen at the Exxon gas station shooting in Fredericksburg, Virginia, last Friday. Authorities are looking for one vehicle, but witnesses had different takes on what that van looked like. It's evident authorities have found some of the most useful witnesses since the sniper killing started. But despite this, there is still not enough to release a sketch of a suspect.

CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: If we have information that we feel needs to be in the public arena, would be helpful in the case, we will present that information.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: Now, Connie, to give you an idea of what the situation was like here last night just after the shooting had occurred, we talked about the rapid police response that came into this area.

But most of the traffic that was backed up and where the inspections were going on, the roadblocks had been set up, was on the eastbound part of Route 50 heading into downtown Washington. We drove out to this scene last night on the westbound part of Route 50 and had no trouble getting here, as traffic was -- there was no one along the way blocking driving maneuvers along that part of the highway -- Connie, back to you.

CHUNG: All right, Ed Lavandera in Falls Church tonight, thank you.

Now on the new development: that police believe they have enough to go on to put together a possible description of the sniper or snipers. As for the motive, could it be terrorism? Well, the Bush administration says it's not ruling out such a link, but local police seem to be.

CNN's justice correspondent, Kelli Arena, broke this story about a composite sketch that might emerge later.

Kelli, what can you tell us about it and how police have been putting it together?

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, law enforcement sources tell us that they have three separate accounts from two different locations, one of those locations being the site of last night's shooting, where witnesses described seeing a male, an olive- to dark-skinned male in a white van.

One of those witnesses, though, described seeing two dark-skinned males in a white van. They are working with investigators, trying to get a sketch put together. But I have to say that law enforcement sources have warned us along the way that these individual -- the individual or individuals may have absolutely nothing to do with the sniper attacks. They are people that witnesses saw on the scene.

They may have very legitimate reasons for being there. They have to get a sketch together, figure out who it is that they are dealing with, and then try to figure out what that person was doing at that location at that time.

CHUNG: Question them, at least.

ARENA: Yes.

CHUNG: Now, I think that something that has been on the minds of all of us is, Washington, of course, was a target on 9/11. There was the anthrax attack. Could this be a terrorist organization, even al Qaeda, somehow connected with it?

ARENA: They're not closing the door. Officials are not closing the door on that. However, there is absolutely no evidence, not one shred of evidence to suggest that this is a terror-related attack, terrorism as has been defined in the last 12 months, since September 11.

Investigators point out two issues. They say, No. 1, al Qaeda terrorists do not leave tarot cards on the scene with, "Dear Policeman, I am God" on it.

CHUNG: Although -- may I interject -- that may not have been the actual sniper.

ARENA: Right. It might not have been, but they are operating on that belief that it was. And secondly, usually by this time, if it is a terror organization involved, someone takes credit. They are fighting for a cause. They are attacking for a reason. So they will communicate in some way to say: "Hey, this is why we're doing this. This is what we're about." They've had no communication. So investigators do not believe that that is what we're dealing with at this time, although they have not closed the door -- but no evidence. And that's really what we have to deal with.

CHUNG: And very quickly, just in five seconds, the FBI is not heading up this investigation, as we understand it. The FBI is helping. Why isn't it coordinating and overseeing this investigation?

ARENA: Well, state, local and federal law enforcement are equal partners in this effort. You have 400, though, FBI agents. This does not mean that you don't have the full force of the federal government involved in this investigation: 400 agents, 250 ATF agents and analysts. You have Secret Service, you have DEA, you have the U.S. Marshals all involved in some capacity in this investigation, either providing manpower or laboratories or equipment to bring to bear here.

So they are equal partners, state, local and federal, are involved.

CHUNG: Kelli Arena, thank you.

We mentioned earlier that the Pentagon will be assisting in the search for the killer. It's a highly unusual step and it's being shrouded in a good deal of secrecy.

CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr broke this story as well. And she's here to tell us about it. We obviously have received the word from Secretary Rumsfeld that the military will be connected to it.

But here's Barbara Starr's report.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The plan calls for the military to provide reconnaissance and surveillance equipment that might be used to try and quickly find the sniper within moments of a next attack. In addition, advanced communications gear will be used to allow the authorities to react faster.

Law enforcement authorities will request the equipment as needed but the military will have a tightly-controlled role. Troops will only operate the equipment, passing data to law enforcement authorities who would be alongside. It would be up to civilian authorities to chase and arrest any suspect.

Under the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, the military is prohibited from any role in domestic law enforcement. This is not the first time the military has assisted in law enforcement, however. For several years, troops have worked alongside civilian authorities in drug interdiction, looking for suspects but not participating in actual arrests.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STARR: Now, Connie, tonight the Pentagon has said they are going to use airborne reconnaissance and surveillance platforms. But they have asked the news media not to reveal any specific details about the exact type of equipment being used for fear of jeopardizing the investigation.

And they emphasize that civilian law enforcement remains completely in charge of this investigation. But if the sniper does strike again, the military is now ready to join the hunt -- Connie.

CHUNG: Barbara, how rare is this?

STARR: Well, as our report indicated, there have been these types of assistance activities, specifically in drug interdiction. But there's never been a law enforcement case exactly like this one.

The military, we now know, had been working on this package of assistance for the last couple of days. They wanted to wait until civilian law enforcement really felt they needed it. And now apparently that has happened. And we expect to see some of this to begin being offered up as soon as possibly as tomorrow.

CHUNG: All right, thank you, Barbara Starr, at the Pentagon.

The nerve center for the sniper hunt is in Montgomery County, Maryland. CNN's Wolf Blitzer has been there in Rockville covering the investigation every step of the way today. And he's there tonight.

Wolf, tell us, you just heard Kelli Arena report that police are trying to put together a composite sketch of someone they would like to question. Have you received any word about it? That story is from sources. Have you received any definitive word from Montgomery County?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they would love very much to be able to release a picture, a composite illustration, of the suspect or suspects involved in this. And they've got some eyewitness accounts of the individual or individuals who may be involved in these sniping attacks.

But, at this point, they don't have enough hard eyewitness accounts that could justify releasing a sketch of an individual. And, as a result, they haven't done it yet. But you better believe they would love to do that. They did release here today in Rockville, Maryland, two photographs of these two vans that we're seeing. These are images, sketches of the Chevy Astro van, as well as Ford Econoline, with these luggage racks on top that were described variously by eyewitnesses.

Remember, Connie, earlier in the week, they released this box- like truck that was also seen at one of the shootings. So they have got various vehicles they are looking for, but they don't have a good illustration of a suspect yet. Once they do, they'll be releasing that. You can count on that.

CHUNG: Wolf, there are so many agencies involved in this investigation. You have Maryland, Virginia, D.C., ATF, FBI. How is Chief Moose of Montgomery County managing all of these organizations? As we just heard, the FBI is not taking it over.

BLITZER: The Montgomery County police chief, who works right behind me here in Montgomery County, he's in overall charge. Remember, the first five deaths occurred right here in Montgomery County.

There have been four others since then, one in the District of Columbia, three now in Virginia. But he's in overall charge. He has got an enormous amount of assistance from the ATF, the FBI, as well as all the other jurisdictions, all of the other counties. But he's taking the lead right now. There's apparently no desire, no inclination to go ahead and put the FBI in charge.

The FBI agent in charge here in Montgomery County, Gary Bald, says repeatedly that they are not considering that, at least not now. And that has not changed as a result of the death today -- last night, actually -- of Linda Franklin, an FBI analyst, who was killed by coincidence at that Home Depot out in Virginia.

CHUNG: All right, Wolf Blitzer, thank you.

Coming up: the eyewitness accounts, what they saw, why so many questions remain unanswered; plus, a talk with one woman who can tell us about the latest sniper hit -- when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: One reason police exhibited a new level of confidence today was that the sniper has, too. By opening fire in a more heavily-trafficked area, the sniper increased the odds that someone would see something. They did.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve has more now on the valuable witnesses and what they saw.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I saw her on the floor laying down and she covered and her cart behind here with the stuff from Home Depot.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We went outside and offered to help because we're in the medical profession and the police said there's nothing left to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw them go after a guy in a van that was parked down across the street.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In this investigation, eyewitnesses are as valuable as gold, and the shooting in a crowded parking lot provided a wealth of them.

MICHAEL BOUCHARD, ATF: Witnesses are becoming more aware of what's going on and we're getting more information each time.

MESERVE: Witnesses Monday night have provided vehicle descriptions, partial license plate numbers, and according to law enforcement sources, are working with officials to come up with a composite drawing of a man acting suspiciously at the scene. Eyewitness testimony from earlier sniper slayings resulted in graphics of a white box truck and two white vans.

CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: We'd like to be real clear, sir, that they are composites, that when you deal with victims that we don't all see the world the same.

MESERVE: And that is just one of the limitations of eyewitness testimony. Some studies have shown that high levels of stress can impair a witness' memory, that, when a weapon is used, witnesses focus on the weapon, rather than the shooter, and that there is little or no correlation between a witness' confidence in their memory and the accuracy of the memory. Investigators in this case acknowledge different people have different powers of observation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Specifically, when you conduct an investigation and you receive information from a witness, you not only just take their information, but you evaluate how strong their information is, how reliable the information is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: It helps that, in the Falls Church shooting, there are several people to talk to. As one law enforcement official told me, one person may not see what another person does, but if you collect enough stories, you can put together a pretty accurate picture -- Connie.

CHUNG: Jeanne, are authorities concerned about witnesses being influenced by what they see in the media?

MESERVE: Yes, they talked about that specifically today in relationship to the release of those composites of the two white vans. Chief Moose spoke of the possibility of memory contamination. And research shows that really does take place.

They've taken research subjects and they have shown them a significant forensic event on videotape or in a slide show. They then have fed them some misinformation. And then later, they give them a memory test and they find that people do absorb the bad information. It does affect what they remember -- Connie.

CHUNG: All right, Jeanne Meserve, at the update desk, thank you.

I know Jeanne actually was at that parking lot at Home Depot in Virginia just last weekend. We'll turn to a woman now who was at the parking lot last night, when the sniper claimed his next victim.

Joy Zucker, thank you for being with us.

JOY ZUCKER, WITNESS: Thank you. CHUNG: You arrived just minutes, two minutes after the shot was fired. What did you see?

ZUCKER: Well, it's interesting. I was actually up on the upper deck doing errands at some other stores and came around the bend to come down to a lower parking lot and was immediately passed by a police officer who was at a high rate of speed with his lights on. In fact, I had to stop to avoid being hit by him.

And it was uncanny, because I really didn't think anything of that at the time. I went down to the lower deck, pulled right into the lot. And, as I got out of the car and went to walk away from my car, I noticed...

CHUNG: So you were going to Home Depot.

ZUCKER: Going to Home Depot, had an errand to run.

And, as I walked away from my car, I noticed that there was a police car with its lights on parked in one of the lanes, just the lane over from where I was parked. So I walked across, tried to look between the cars to see what I can see, and, in fact, saw that the police car was parked in front of what seemed to be the victim.

CHUNG: And it appeared to you, of course, that she had already passed away?

ZUCKER: I couldn't see the entire body at that point, but it was already covered with what we've come to know as that covering.

CHUNG: You were able to talk to witnesses?

ZUCKER: Yes.

CHUNG: And what did they tell you?

ZUCKER: Well, eyewitnesses were inside the store. In fact, when I, at that point, turned and looked to the front of the store, that entire glass enclosure at the front of the entrance was just mobbed with people. There had to be 25 to 30 people just standing there looking in disbelief down that lane.

And as I went inside and asked: "What happened? When did this happen?" they said: "It just happened. You just missed it." I had no other idea, because I had never heard the shot.

CHUNG: Right. They heard the shot.

ZUCKER: Well, there were a couple of people. And of the eyewitnesses that I spoke with, one had said that he just was walking to his car, had just passed her, and he heard a sound. He initially thought it was a tire that had blown out. He turned and looked and in fact saw the woman fall to the ground.

CHUNG: Oh, my gosh.

ZUCKER: And at that point, he realized it was in fact a gun shot.

There was another eyewitness who was walking out of the store at the time, gave the exact same description, and said that, as she was walking toward that very same area, heard the sound, saw the woman drop to the ground. And these people were -- they were shocked and they were mesmerized. It was one of those, "It's unfolding in front of my eyes." And you see that at crime scenes.

But this was different. This was -- the magnitude of it hit every one of them. And every one of them had the word sniper on their mind.

CHUNG: I was born and raised in Washington and then also lived in the suburbs. And I have friends and family here who are genuinely fearful. Could you feel the fear there?

ZUCKER: It was palpable. You know, it was interesting. There were a few people who were anxious to leave. They just wanted to get home.

CHUNG: Could they, though?

ZUCKER: No. Police were very quick. It was amazing how quick Fairfax County police had shut down that lot, cordoned off the area, prevented anybody from walking back to their cars and disturbing what might have been the crime scene, in terms of beyond the actual area where the victim was.

You heard the helicopters. You saw the activity on the major arteries that are adjacent to that store. And you could see their presence immediately. And it was intense. It was not just Fairfax County. You saw the other jurisdictions. You saw the federal officials. And it was amazing that the people -- outside of the few people who really just wanted to get home to their kids or get home because they were tired, no one else wanted to move.

They were going to play their part...

CHUNG: And help.

ZUCKER: ... and help. And these were committed residents, Falls Church and other areas, that -- they were not going anywhere. They want this man caught, and they will do what they have to. And there were people who even expressed, if he were there, they would take him down themselves. These were not vengeful vigilantes. These were concerned citizens who said: "Now you've hit home. Now you've hit home."

CHUNG: Absolutely. I was watching last night. And it was a rather unprecedented show of force, and quick.

ZUCKER: I'll tell you something. First of all, these residents were told at one point: "You're not going to be able to get in your cars tonight. You're going to be here a while. We need to talk to all of you. So make the calls you need to make. Let them know you're not coming home right away. But we have to maintain the integrity of this."

These people stood there and there was no question. They knew that they were well-protected. They knew that they, living in this community, had law enforcement support. They knew that the magnitude of this investigation was going to -- they're going to merit the finding of this man. There was no question of that. And they were very secure in that knowledge.

CHUNG: OK, Joy Zucker, thank you so much for being with us.

ZUCKER: Thank you.

CHUNG: Glad you are safe.

Still ahead: communities living in fear.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: As the hunt for the sniper continues, individual communities are struggling with the fear generated by the shootings.

Joining us now are: from Richmond, Virginia, Lieutenant Governor Tim Kaine; also Mayor Fred Robinson of Bowie, Maryland; and Washington Mayor Anthony Williams.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate it.

Mayor Robinson, can you tell us, what are the residents there telling you in terms of their fear, in terms of their ability to move around?

FRED ROBINSON, MAYOR OF BOWIE, MARYLAND: Well, they're very concerned. And they're obviously anxious. They're concerned about their children. Obviously, the incident occurred in one of our middle schools. So they are showing that concern by walking their children to school and paying attention.

And they are staying away from some of the restaurants and those things. But they're cautious, but optimistic that the police will resolve this fairly quickly.

CHUNG: Lieutenant Governor, I know that you also have children in the system. And you have been concerned about what your citizenry have been reporting to you. But, in addition to that, I know that you have friends who own gas stations. Tell us about them.

LT. GOV. TIM KAINE, VIRGINIA: Friends and supporters all up and down the interstate between here and Washington own gas station right near the interstate. I frequently stop at the station that's the Exxon in Massaponax, where the shooting was on Friday.

And they are very, very concerned about safety and what to do to keep their customers and their employees safe. It is paralyzing the whole region with sort of a psychological intimidation. And that's why we need to move quickly to catch the suspect.

CHUNG: Yes, sir.

Mayor Williams, I know that there are a lot of surveillance cameras around Washington, D.C. Is there any sense that these will be able to be useful in perhaps detecting the sniper or at least at keeping the sniper away from the Washington, D.C. area?

ANTHONY WILLIAMS, MAYOR OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: I'll put it this way. I think surveillance cameras and the density of an urban situation may be helpful in some ways.

But I got to tell you, our citizens, our children, are certainly emotionally involved. We lost a person. And any loss in this community is really like a loss to family. There's an impact on business here...

CHUNG: I was just about to ask you that.

WILLIAMS: Yes -- that's palpable, because people are wondering, "Well, should I invest?" We're encouraging them to. And so far, we haven't seen major cancellations. But it's a big, big worry.

CHUNG: And what about retail sales? Have you a pulse beat on that?

WILLIAMS: Well, the sense is, you've heard from -- I can't speak with intimate knowledge, but I've certainly had reported to me and briefed to me that retail sales throughout the area have gone down.

They've talked personally to merchants in some places here in the city where they are not what they have been. We've struggled to come back from 9/11 and the anthrax attack. Now we're hitting this. It's really trying to reassure people, and especially children.

CHUNG: Mayor Robinson, is there an economic impact in your area? Because I might point out, we looked into whether Michaels craft stores have been impacted. And, indeed, we were told by a spokesperson that sales have been impacted by all of this. And, also, retail across the board has been impacted.

ROBINSON: Well, I think we've noticed a drop off in patronage at the restaurants. Some of the restaurants are actually even closing earlier than they normally would. And it's clear, from looking at the parking lots, that the malls and things are less populated than one would expect.

CHUNG: Lieutenant Governor, the same for you?

KAINE: The same in Virginia. But, you know, just this evening, our governor was on television announcing a series of budget cuts because we, like most states, are facing serious budget challenges. This is an expensive investigation, to coordinate it between state, local and federal law enforcement authorities.

But one of the few areas of the budget that's not being cut is public safety funds, because we need to make sure that we invest the resources necessary to solve this.

CHUNG: Lieutenant Governor, the governor of Maryland has ordered a ban on hunting to prevent reports of hearing shots and having authorities go out on those runs. Do you know if the governor in Virginia is thinking of doing the same thing?

KAINE: I think that would be highly unlikely in Virginia. I haven't spoken directly with Governor Warner about that as an option. But the areas where the shootings have occurred in Virginia are so built up that there are not areas where there's a lot of hunting occurring. And so that shouldn't be a factor that would cause any confusion in the investigation.

CHUNG: All right, Lieutenant Governor, I know that you are on the Virginia Anti-Terrorism Task Force.

KAINE: Yes.

CHUNG: What can you tell us about any of the meetings that you've had with the task force?

KAINE: Well, we had a full task force meeting today, which was our monthly meeting, and talked about this incident and about sort of what the definition of terrorism is. And, obviously, there's a question about the perpetrator. Are they connected with terrorism, just the whole notion of what terrorism is?

Certainly, part of this crime seems to be to intimidate millions of people, in addition to the victims who have suffered so grievously. In some sense, that is exactly what terrorism is: an attempt to injure and also inflict psychological damage.

CHUNG: Thank you, sir.

We had talked earlier about the question of whether or not there might be a terrorist organization connected. But, of course, the federal government is currently saying there seems to be no connection. Have you been given any information, Mr. Mayor, as to what could possibly be behind this?

WILLIAMS: I have not been given that information formally or informally. But I'll tell you, I agree with the president that this doesn't seem to be or appear to be the act of an official terrorist organization. But I think everyone would agree that this has a terrorist impact in the level of uncertainty and fear that it causes in our community and families.

CHUNG: Without question.

We appreciate your being with us, Mr. Mayor. And we appreciate your being with us, and Lieutenant Governor Kaine as well.

KAINE: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: Up next: If it's not terrorism, what drives the sniper to kill? Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Terrorism: It's just one suspect of speculation about the sniper. There are plenty of other theories. Is the sniper a tarot card enthusiast, a psychopath who wants to instill fear in the communities? Is he motivated by the sight of victims dying? Are there any meaningful geographic patterns? Where did the sniper learn to shoot? For every question, the answer right now is, we don't know.

Joining us now from New York to help figure out what we can do and what we do know is former New York City homicide detective Bo Dietl and criminologist Casey Jordan.

Thank you both for being with us.

Bo, you just heard us talking about the whole question of whether a terrorist organization might be involved, even to go as far as al Qaeda. And we were told that that was dismissed, partly because they would have taken responsibility, and that's the pattern. However, I think it begs us to ask, nothing fit a pattern on 9/11. We were surprised at everything that occurred, the tragedy that occurred there. So why couldn't this be a terrorist connection?

BO DIETL, FORMER NEW YORK CITY HOMICIDE DETECTIVE: You know, being a detective, first of all, you don't eliminate anything. But I'm saying, as far as the no responsibility being taken, we're into two weeks into these shootings.

And they are not snipers. They're homicidal maniacs that are shooting people. I don't like to give these people any credit. I think it's more than one. But to say that it's terrorists from the Middle East, they would have taken credit. They would have frozen our country and nobody would want to leave their houses. It's a perfect time to take credit for it and they haven't. And that's of their modus operandi.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Let me just jump over to Casey Jordan.

Do you think it is one or two or more individuals?

CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: My initial reaction was that this was the work of a lone gunman. But as time has passed and different eyewitness accounts have come in, I certainly would argue that it's conceivable that it's two. Right now, I'm pretty much on a 50/50 split. And I don't think that it really matters whether it's one or two. It matters, of course, that we catch them.

CHUNG: And back to Bo.

Why do you think it is more than one?

DIETL: Well, Connie, on October 3, when the four shootings in a matter of two hours, four homicides in two hours, that's when I felt as though there was more than one.

We've investigated a lot of homicides. And once a person is shot, they get whatever thrill they get; second one shot, thrill. But now you're going to four different people in a matter of two hours. It's like one person pushing the other person.

The other thing is the randomness of who is being shot: man, woman, black, white, Indian, a little boy shot in the back. You have such a random shooting. You always look for a motive, means and opportunity when you're investigating a homicide case. My thing always comes...

CHUNG: But, Casey Jordan, is there a motive that you can think of? Or does it even matter what the motive would be?

JORDAN: I think that it's pretty much a waste of time at this juncture to focus on what could be the motive. There is something, a phrase we use in criminology, called the X factor. It is the unknown issue that is very specific to the psyche, to the mind of the shooter himself. We can't know it. It could be any of 100 things.

And while you can always speculate and you have to be wondering, at the same time, in this case, you have to go on the hard evidence that you have and use that to try to catch him, because psychological profiling is probably not going to get us very far in this particular case.

CHUNG: Why not?

JORDAN: Because, again, as Bo said, the randomness of the crime indicates that there is no pattern. In fact, everyone says, what's the pattern? I say it's the randomness.

The fact that he is all over geographically and there's no consistency with regard to the victim -- the consistency is with, of course, the weapon of choice, the one-shot signature. This indicates that there is something that, in my mind, this shooter or shooters is trying to prove, probably to himself or to an imaginary enemy that could be as simple as society in general.

CHUNG: Bo Dietl, I know that you have the theory that this is someone who has played those violent video games. On what basis do you have that opinion?

DIETL: Well, you have to look at the investigation in the Columbine case.

In the investigation of the Columbine case, these kids were very actively involved with a game called "Doom," which is a sniper game, shooting people. And in that game, there is a game called "I am God," where you take -- where you can't get shot. It sounds like a joke as far as what I'm saying about video games.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: It does, actually, frankly. I have to tell you that it sounds like an improbability.

DIETL: OK. But what I'm trying to say is, do you know what the psyche of these adolescents playing this game? They play for six, eight hours a day. Then, all of a sudden, they became this person.

Obviously, the people who are doing this crime are not very out, forward persons. They're good to shoot from 100 yards away. They can't confront the person. They're cowards, in the sense that they can shoot from far away and they don't want to face anybody.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Are you suggesting that they played these video games years ago and that they are now in their 20s or 30s?

DIETL: I'm suggesting that they are possibly 17-, 18-, 19, 20- year-old kids that are not in the mainstream of the other kids. And they are possibly loser-type people. And this game now they're living out in real life. And they're out there.

It's obvious that they are on a frenzy now. There's no means or any kind of direction there. You could get any profile you want. You're not going to figure them out. They are out there committing murders. You have got to look at a motive. And that is a motive, believe it or not, that they want to be able to shoot from far away and body count. Everyone wants a body count.

It's known from a lot of people that investigated the Columbine case that the whole thing was, all these other homicides, they want to have more body counts, get more numbers. There's nothing here...

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Let me jump over to Casey Jordan.

JORDAN: I don't...

CHUNG: Yes, go ahead.

JORDAN: I don't disagree. I would argue that we have to be a little bit careful in terms of linking it as a cause.

But can violent video games be a contributing factor that might actually serve as a springboard for unstable people? Yes, I absolutely agree that it can be. And people who say don't blame video games are certainly not unstable people who are susceptible to the power of such popular media images.

CHUNG: But I have to believe, Casey Jordan, that this is much bigger than that or much -- I can't imagine that this is the core of what the sniper has been mulling over.

JORDAN: Not the core.

CHUNG: Go ahead. JORDAN: Connie, this person may have snapped and begun with this horrifying spree, as Bo pointed out, four deaths in two hours. But he or they were not created overnight. They are a product of an environment that's probably been years in the making of the actual circumstances which led to the events.

They may not have begun the shootings for the purpose of seeking attention and having a major strategic chess game with law enforcement and the media, but that's what has happened. And I think that they've been seduced by it and now that could be a contributing factor as well. It's so complex, you cannot isolate one factor and blame it solely.

CHUNG: All right, great.

Casey Jordan, thank you.

Both Dietl, thank you as well.

And still ahead: focusing on what we do know. The weapons, the ballistics, the telltale markings, will they lead us to a killer?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: While speculation multiplies about the Washington sniper's identity, motive and methods, very few pieces of hard evidence exist. Perhaps the most important of those pieces are the deadly bullets themselves, .223 caliber. What do these bullets tell police? And how much do we know about the gun that's being used?

Mike Brooks is a former Washington police detective who now serves as our law enforcement analyst.

Mike, thank you for being with us.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Good evening, Connie.

CHUNG: Tell us, is there new information about the weapon itself?

BROOKS: Well, there's not any new information. Law enforcement believes that it could be from a number of different weapons. But they are focusing on one particular weapon. And that's a Colt AR-15 type weapon that does fire a .223 round.

What I have here is an actual Colt AR-15, which is the civilian version of the M-16, which we've seen over the years and is in movies and with the military. It's a standard-issue weapon of the U.S. military.

CHUNG: But is it easily accessible to a civilian?

BROOKS: There was a ban on these back a number of years ago. But there are some versions of these that are out there, sporter models, other models of this particular weapon that people can buy at gun shows and also through catalogs.

CHUNG: Mike, are you relatively certain that it was not a hunting rifle? Or is that your assessment?

BROOKS: Well, talking to law enforcement, some of the shell casings have had some marks on it -- we'll talk about that in a second -- which would lead them to believe that it was a semiautomatic similar to the AR-15.

CHUNG: All right, let's get to the bullet and the shell casings. What can you tell us?

BROOKS: Well, the bullet that's being used is -- the round, I should say -- is the .223 Remington round. It doesn't look very big. It's kind of a version of a .22, which a lot of people are familiar with.

The velocity is approximately 3,000 to 3,500 feet per second, which makes it a high-powered weapon. And, as you see, the shell casing is fairly large, but the projectile itself is fairly small. It's about from this point in the shell casing up. And that's what actually is fired out of the weapon.

Now, there have been two shell casings that have been recovered so far, Connie, one down in Spotsylvania County, Virginia, at the Michaels store in the parking lot there, where the woman did survive the shooting, and the other at the Tasker Middle School, where the 13- year-old boy was wounded. Now, there's a lot of things you can get from a shell casing.

CHUNG: All right, let me just pick up on one question, which I'm sure gun enthusiasts know the answer to. But for those who don't, can you fire an AR-15 from a driver's seat with the steering wheel right in front of you? Is that possible?

BROOKS: Oh, that's very possible. In fact, the inside of a vehicle, you can rest it on the edge. It makes a great shooting platform for any shooter. And it's very possible that the shooter can be shooting from inside of the car. And that would also be one of the reasons that there haven't been many shell cases that have been recovered on the scene, because the shell casing would go inside the car.

CHUNG: I see.

Let's talk about the scope, then. Tell us.

BROOKS: Well, this particular weapon has a scope, which we're seeing. There's a number of different scopes. There's all kinds of technology nowadays. This particular scope is a 20-powered scope.

Now, a lot of scopes, there are some on the market called an aimpoint, which is very, very easy to learn how to use. You basically look through the optics of the scope, look through and you see a little dot. You line that dot up with your target and you pull the trigger. It's very easy to do once you get the scope itself zeroed in on the target.

CHUNG: All right, I have one final question for you, Mike. We have talked about the vehicle that authorities are looking for. But, apparently, there is this white van or white box truck. Why would the sniper keep using the same vehicle, if indeed it is the sniper who is driving this white vehicle?

BROOKS: Well, that's a good question. And that's a question that law enforcement keeps asking themselves: Why would this person use this?

Now, the box truck that the composite came out on Saturday evening from Montgomery County, now, that vehicle is only being used and they are only looking for that vehicle in relationship to the shootings in Montgomery County. Now, the vehicle that they put out -- the two composites that were put out today that we're seeing, one is for a Chevy Astro van and the other for a Ford Econovan, both with ladder racks on top of the vehicles.

Now, if you'll recall, the shooting in Spotsylvania County, they said it was a white Chevy Astro van with a ladder on top. So we see this. Last night, they said it was a cream color. But that could be because of lighting. But people should keep an open mind. They believe that these are involved. They have also mentioned other vehicles. So they should keep that in mind, if someone is nearby one of the shooting scenes.

CHUNG: All right, Mike Brooks, CNN law enforcement analyst, we appreciate your being with us. Thank you.

BROOKS: Thank you, Connie.

CHUNG: And still ahead: She was a mother of two, a cancer survivor, and she died with a single shot to the head just about 24 hours ago. Who was Linda Franklin?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: By all accounts, the sniper shot down Linda Franklin last night, just about 24 hours ago, at random. So we wouldn't know. He did not care, possibly, that Linda Franklin spent her days helping protect America against terrorism or that she spent her days trying to make America safer for families just like hers.

CNN's Bob Franken now with more on why we should care about a woman who was nothing more to the sniper than a target.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Linda Franklin lived her life in quiet anonymity, a 47-year-old mother of two adult children, but her life was taken in the unspeakable, incomprehensible way that has traumatized the area, and once again left a family in agony. BILL MURRAY, FAMILY SPOKESMAN: The Franklin family is devastated by this tragic event. Linda's family is shocked by the senseless loss of life.

FRANKEN: Her death was laden with tragic irony. Linda Franklin worked for the FBI, an intelligence analyst for the Infrastructure Protection Center. Sources say, however, that there's no indication her killer knew that. FBI officials joined family and friends throughout the day, trying to offer comfort to at least one of the adult children and her husband, Ted, a civilian computer engineer who was by her side when she was gunned down.

Federal Bureau of Investigation Director Robert Mueller called Linda Franklin a dedicated employee whose death has left her colleagues deeply shocked and angry. The Franklins were planning to move from their condominium to another residence this Friday, and it was widely believed that it was at least possible the preparations made the fateful trip to the Home Depot necessary. She was looking ahead after a double mastectomy and she was still undergoing physical therapy in her battle against breast cancer.

(on camera): After all that, her life was suddenly snuffed out, her death made all the more unbearable by the question her family and the entire community are asking: Why?

Bob Franken, CNN, Arlington, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Tomorrow, we'll have the latest on the search for the sniper.

And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": Why have Harry Belafonte and Colin Powell been feuding in public lately?

From Washington, thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and see you tomorrow.

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Washington Area Sniper; Police Have Description of Suspicious Person>