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CNN Connie Chung Tonight

Police Use New Tactics in Hunt for Washington Sniper; Military to Take Part in Search

Aired October 16, 2002 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: how the sniper changed his tactics and how the police have changed theirs, too.

ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT: "Sniper on the Loose," two weeks of terror, the search for a killer, a community in fear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm just sick, sick to my stomach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are very scared. Everybody's scared. We're scared to go to the store. We're scared to pump gas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am definitely not taking her out until this guy is captured.

DOUG DUNCAN, MONTGOMERY COUNTY EXECUTIVE: We are all struggling together to get through this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT: "Sniper on the Loose. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.

CHUNG: Good evening.

Authorities investigating the sniper shootings in the Washington, D.C. area tonight have some tantalizing new information to work with. CNN has learned that they have a number of people under surveillance as they track possible leads in the case. And the latest incident Monday, night's killing of Linda Franklin in a Home Depot parking lot in Falls Church, Virginia, provided many of the new clues police have.

The sniper appears to be getting bolder. He apparently was a lot closer than ever to his victim on Monday night. Some witnesses say they saw a man with a weapon. There are some hints about the weapon used and part of a license plate number. Tonight, we'll have details on all of this, as well as new information from the Pentagon today about how they are helping in the church. But first, CNN's Jeanne Meserve is at the evidence desk in Washington with the latest on what investigators have pieced together -- Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, investigators know a lot more after the Falls Church shooting than they did before, but they still don't know enough. The evidence is sparse. And although there are common threads, there are inconsistencies, contradictions, and puzzles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): In Falls Church, for the first time, we're told, there were witnesses who provided descriptions of the shooter. But they didn't agree on what he looked like. And so authorities had no sketch to release.

CAPT. NANCY DEMME, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Fairfax County police worked with their witnesses. And, unfortunately, because of darkness and distance and perhaps excitement and adrenaline at the time, they were unable to come up with a composite.

MESERVE: Witnesses also provided partial license plate numbers, only partial. They described a van with a ladder rack which resembles the description of one seen at last Friday's shooting in Fredericksburg, Virginia. But it doesn't match the composite of a white truck that other witnesses said was seen in the initial spree of shootings two weeks ago.

Even so, Falls Church brought more clues than any time since a school child was wounded in Bowie, Maryland, where investigators found a single shell casing and a tarot card like this with a handwritten message, "Mr. Policeman, I am God," the most tantalizing clue yet. The tarot card has undergone extensive laboratory analysis. Whatever investigators found, they've kept to themselves. They've also reviewed surveillance tapes from several crime scenes -- again, no word on whether they've produced any useful picture of a suspect or a vehicle.

The victims appear to have been chosen at random and there appears to be no discernible pattern to the nature of the shootings. In Bowie, investigators found the shell casing and tarot card 140 to 150 yards away. But in Falls Church, investigators say, the sniper stood only 30 yards from his victim.

And the layout of some of the other crime scenes suggest the shooter may have had to have been relatively close by. One of the first victims, mowing a narrow strip of grass, was shot down in the middle of a side street that is only one block along. Others were killed in busy commercial areas, with little cover for hiding.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Some of the common threads: There have been four shootings at gas stations, four in parking lots, and several at or near Michaels craft shops. The one common thread is this: .223- caliber ammunition fired from the same gun. A witness in Falls Church told police he recognized that gun as an AK-74, a relatively rare weapon. But investigators are holding out the possibility that the witness got it wrong -- Connie.

CHUNG: Jeanne, there must be, what, more than a dozen agencies and jurisdictions involved in this investigation. How is it being coordinated?

MESERVE: Well, it's a mixed picture.

I'm told that the coordination between the federal agencies and between the federal agencies and the local jurisdictions is going quite well, the results of 9/11, the lessons learned. However, I'm told that, between the local jurisdictions, there are some jealousies. There are a lot of people here who are used to being the top dogs.

Someone compared it to the Pentagon to me. They said, you have got the Air Force, the Army, the Navy, Marines, all with their own jealousies, even though they have a common mission. There was a meeting today in which they tried to hash some of this out. I'm told that some of the chiefs from Virginia in particular were upset that they felt some information was being held from them. The response was: "Be more active in the task force. You'll learn more" -- Connie.

CHUNG: All right, Jeanne Meserve in Washington, thank you.

We're going to interrupt our coverage of the sniper shooting for a late report, a late development from John King at the White House. We'll have that just a little later. It involves sources telling us that North Korea has acknowledged that it has a secret nuclear weapons program. We'll have more on that in just a moment.

Now the shooting of Linda Franklin in Fairfax County Monday night may prove to be a breakthrough for investigators, yielding the first eyewitnesses and even partial license plate information.

CNN national correspondent Bob Franken is at the shooting scene in Falls Church, Virginia, tonight with more on what is known about Monday night's murder.

Bob, as I understand it, the investigators believe that they have the most witness information, bar none, of all of these incidents from Monday night's shooting. And they have even been able to sort of piece together exactly what happened. Can you show us what you believe that the police know?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what the police have been told by several witnesses, the witnesses who would be coming here, as they are now, shopping at the Home Depot, is that they were able to watch where the sniper operated from, according to the witnesses.

Now, it really strikes you how close it is. You will see behind me that flat part which marks the spot where Linda Franklin lost her life, where the sniper shot her. Now, I want to walk up. It's just 30 yards away. And we're walking from that spot up here right now in the parking garage to the precise point that the witnesses said that he parked.

And that point was right here, right where you are seeing, right outside the parking area, with his van, the Astro van or the Ford van -- they are not sure which -- facing to the West, facing to my left, facing in that direction. And, according to witnesses, apparently what happened, they watched him fire from behind the van, outside the van, by the way, and then hop into the van and take off down this very, very short road to the stop sign you can see down there, take a right, and immediately go on the access road which runs parallel to this parking garage.

It's probably about a quarter-of-a-mile up to the intersection. He could take a quick left and then get on highway 50, which is the roadway which runs through here, get on that and melt into traffic, melt into the night, which is precisely what happened. Of course, it would take just about a minute, probably no more than that, much faster than anybody could even get over the shock of what just happened, and, of course, Connie, much longer than the arrival of the police.

So it happened very quickly. And most people believe that it just shows how methodical in planning that the sniper or snipers, their methodical planning is.

CHUNG: Bob, that is just so extraordinary. Now I can really see what was happening.

Now, you said that the shooter was outside the van and then got into the van. Did the witnesses, from what you could get from your reporting, say that he got into the back of the van or the driver's seat or the passenger's seat?

FRANKEN: We don't have any precise information like that. And Jeanne Meserve was reporting about a problem. And that is, is that, even with that information, there is a lot that's really unclear. There are various descriptions, various descriptions of what happened.

Of course, the question always comes up: Was one person seen or two people seen? All that they report is that he got into the van and took off down that way, which would have been the way out of here, and was able to, as I said, quickly melt into the night.

CHUNG: All right, Bob Franken, thank you so much, from the scene of the sniper's latest attack.

Now we're going to turn to the nerve center of the investigation in Rockville, Maryland, where CNN's Kathleen Koch joins us.

Kathleen, what's the latest from the command center?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Connie, this is the very first day since these shootings began back on October 2 that we did not get a briefing from Montgomery County police Chief Charles Moose, who has become a nationally known figure since the shootings started.

We were told that today he was in a strategy planning session with other members of the task force, the FBI, the ATF, local police chiefs. We don't know whether or not this means they are going to start pursuing a new tactic in trying to catch the killer, a tactic that perhaps would be more successful than what they've pursued so far -- Connie.

CHUNG: Kathleen, as I understand it, there have been something like 69,000 tips and 15,000 alone from last Monday's shooting. How can they manage this number of tips? Do they have enough people to ferret out the information?

KOCH: Well, Connie, they have -- just answering phones alone at the FBI facility where the calls are coming in, they have 75 officers and then hundreds more from there. There are hundreds of investigators working this case. And so they are going out throughout this county and surrounding counties and pursuing the leads that they find credible.

We have been trying to figure out: Well, how do you describe and determine a credible lead? And they say it has to be a lead that has some nugget of truth, some nugget of interest, something that sets it apart, that makes it worth assigning an investigator to. Now, as Kelli Arena was reporting earlier tonight, now they have people under surveillance. They say that's because of the flood of clues that are coming in.

But they say these people aren't suspects. They are checking them. They are talking to them. They are watching them, checking their activities during the nights of the shootings and the days of the shootings and trying to find out if there is a match and eliminating many of them. But, clearly, all of this is because people are calling in. And the police, though they are swamped with calls, they don't want anyone to stop, because they believe that the public will really be critical in solving this case.

CHUNG: Kathleen, how are they holding up, all those law enforcement people? I think the pressure must be enormous.

KOCH: The pressure is enormous. Many of them also live obviously in this area. They have families. They have wives, children, parents who could be potential targets of this killer. So it's very stressful. They are working long hours, 12, 16 hours.

But they're truly determined. The police chief has said at one briefing, when I ask them: "How are you doing; how are you holding up?" they say, "What else can I do?" Obviously, the shooting Monday a week ago of that young boy at the middle school, that really steeled their determination. And they are more optimistic now than ever before, because, as has been pointed out in this show, the killer is getting sloppier. The killer is getting bolder.

They're getting more and better witnesses every time he strikes. So they're hopeful and they're determined, but they are certainly tired -- back to you.

CHUNG: Kathleen, you mentioned that 13-year-old boy. And I just want to quickly, in five seconds, find out, is he still in critical condition, do you know?

KOCH: As far as we know, yes, he's still hospitalized at Children's National Medical Center, one of the best pediatric facilities in the country, where he's getting the best care possible. But he has got a long road ahead of him, Connie.

CHUNG: All right, Kathleen Koch in Rockville, Maryland, tonight, thank you.

The Washington area sniper is the target of a breathtaking number of agencies, as we just said, local and federal, including the Secret Service, the Customs Service, the Marshals Service, the CIA, U.S. Park Police, and postal inspectors. And then there are the hundreds of local police on the front lines.

One of the leaders in the investigative task force is Spotsylvania County Sheriff Ronald Knight, who joins me now from Spotsylvania, Virginia.

Thank you, sir, for being with us.

RONALD KNIGHT, SPOTSYLVANIA COUNTY SHERIFF: Thank you.

CHUNG: Yes, we appreciate it.

Now, there were two victims in your area. I know one of them was October 4, a woman who was in the parking lot of a Michaels craft store. And she survived. How is she doing?

KNIGHT: She's mending quite well. And we are certainly thankful that she's doing as well as she is.

CHUNG: And with the sniper still on the loose, how would you say people are holding up, as you look around your area?

KNIGHT: Well, they are certainly tentative and pensive about going out, of course. And we're doing our best to quell those fears as much as we can. Of course, we're covering all the public and private schools in the county. And the day-to-day answering of calls and stuff is really stretching us out. So we're averaging 14 to 16 hours a day, seven days a week on this.

CHUNG: Sheriff, I don't know how anyone can sort of lead a normal life. I would think that everyone, from law enforcement to retailers, to just regular people, parents, kids going to school, have to be just so tense.

KNIGHT: Well, it is. They are very mindful of their surroundings. And that's what we keep telling them when they go out: to be observant and be watching out for anything strange. However insignificant it might be, we just ask them to be mindful, and, if they see something, please call us and we'll do our best to get there as quick as we can.

CHUNG: Based on what you know about the investigation, do you think that a composite sketch will be released soon? KNIGHT: Well, as you know, with witnesses, are inherent sometimes being off because either they are scared or frightened or whatever. And that's why we don't want to put anything out to the media until we are really and fairly sure that that's what we want to show, because, remember, the integrity of this case is just as important, because it is a criminal case.

And when this person is brought to justice, they are going to have their time with defense attorneys. And everything that we've done until now is going to be scrutinized. So we don't want to lose a case because evidence is suppressed because we did something wrong. And that's why we are trying to be as careful as we can as to what we do release.

CHUNG: Sheriff, give us a sense. Do you think that the sniper is getting close to being caught?

KNIGHT: Well, I would hope so. We certainly pray that nobody else gets hurt.

But we think the way this is going, he's either getting bolder or he's getting sloppy, or both. And we're getting some more witnesses each time that are seeing different things. And, of course, the common thread right now is the white van with the ladder rack, of course.

CHUNG: You are so right about being bolder and sloppy. What's extraordinary is that he was so close to the victim, as we reported, in this latest shooting on Monday, and yet he was outside the van, as far as one witness is concerned. And it just doesn't make sense, does it?

KNIGHT: Not really.

And, of course, I'm not smart enough to be able to tell you what's in his mind, of course. But, in our case, we feel fairly certain that the shot came from within the van, rather than somewhere else. So, again, we're consistent on the van for sure right now.

CHUNG: All right, Sheriff Ronald Knight, thank you so much for being with us.

Now, before we continue our coverage of the D.C. sniper story, we have some late developments I had mentioned before involving North Korea, a country that President Bush has labeled as part of a -- quote -- "axis of evil," along with Iraq and Iran.

A senior administration official said this evening that North Korea has told the United States it has a secret nuclear weapons program, in violation of an agreement with the U.S.

Senior White House correspondent John King has details -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Connie, officials telling us this startling revelation: The admission from North Korea that it has a nuclear weapons program active today came on October 4, 12 days ago.

The assistant secretary of state, James Kelly, was in Pyongyang meeting with a top aide to the North Korean president, Kim Jong Il. Secretary Kelly told the North Koreans the U.S. had firm intelligence that North Korea was back building a nuclear weapons program. The North Koreans did not dispute that evidence, even conceded that was the case.

U.S. officials say they were startled by that. They were expecting a denial from the North Koreans. That set off a series of high-level meetings throughout the administration, culminating in a National Security Council meeting here at the White House yesterday -- U.S. officials now involved, Connie, in urgent consultations with Tokyo and with Seoul, Japan and South Korea, we are told, to look for statements from those governments in the next several hours.

This could have major ramifications. And it comes, of course, at a time when North Korea has been trying to end its isolation, acknowledging the kidnappings of Japanese citizens, trying to have more ties across the demilitarized zone with South Korea. U.S. officials say it is still unclear how they will proceed from here. They say a lot of that depends on how North Korea responds now and what the governments of Japan and South Korea want to do, along with the United States -- Connie.

CHUNG: John, is there any official White House reaction?

KING: No official word yet. We're getting this word tonight from senior administration officials. We are told, because the 1994 agreement, struck during the Clinton administration, the parties to that involve the two key U.S. allies in Asia, Japan and South Korea. The White House wants to have consultations with those governments before deciding how to proceed and is waiting for those governments to make public statements first because of their proximity, of course, to North Korea.

President Bush, though, is scheduled to meet with Prime Minister Koizumi and Prime Minister Kim, those three leaders scheduled to meet later this month at the annual Asian Pacific Economic conference. Look for the developments to culminate at that meeting.

CHUNG: All right, John King, at the White House, thank you.

Once again, this administration learning that North Korea has a secret nuclear weapons program.

We'll be back with more news in a moment.

The United States military joins the hunt for the sniper. How? Some of it is secret. We'll tell you the rest of it in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: The American Civil Liberties Union says it's taking a hard look at the Pentagon's role in the search for the sniper. The Posse Comitatus law, passed after the Civil War, prohibits the military from doing domestic police work. Now civil libertarians are concerned that Congress has removed some of the barriers that keep the military from being used again American citizens.

And today, CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has learned more about exactly what resources the U.S. military is bringing to bear against the sniper stalking suburban Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Army reconnaissance planes will fly over Washington, D.C., military eyes in the sky. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke about it for the first time.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We are leaning forward and have agreed to provide some assistance of various type.

STARR: The RC-7 known as the airborne reconnaissance low, can operate day or night in all weather staying aloft for several hours.

The plane with a crew of seven was originally designed to be used by the military for drug surveillance operations. It is packed with sophisticated sensors that can survey the ground and record imagery, pictures of what is happening below. It will be able to track vehicles on the move. Communications gear will allow that information to be transmitted quickly to hundreds of law enforcement personnel on the ground.

A U-21 beach craft like this one with advanced reconnaissance equipment and a crew of eight will also be part of the mission. Pentagon officials again emphasize the operation is run by law enforcement. The military will operate the aircraft and pass intelligence to an FBI agent that will be on board. But the FBI will decide if any of that information represents a target to pursue. That will ensure the entire operation is within the law.

(on camera): Pentagon officials disclosed the operation knowing that these planes would be seen in the congested airspace around Washington, D.C. But they still do not want to openly discuss exactly what these aircraft are going to do. They hope to be ready to move in if the sniper strikes again.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: Hunting from the air isn't the only way to find the sniper. Investigators are also trying to find him from the inside out by trying to get inside his mind.

Joining us now to talk about the mind of a sniper: criminal profiler Pat Brown, CEO of the Sexual Homicide Exchange in Washington; and former sniper and trainer of snipers, Stuart Meyers, once a member of the Montgomery County SWAT team. And he joins us from Denver.

Thank you both for between with us. Stuart, I'll start with you. One of the witnesses apparently says that he or she believes that the weapon was an AK-74. But we've also heard that the likelihood is that the weapon is a Colt AR-15, it's called, a civilian version of the military M-16. So, first, the difference between the AK-74 and the Colt AR-15, and, secondly, could there be a military connection?

STUART MEYERS, FORMER MONTGOMERY COUNTY SWAT TEAM MEMBER: I would think there's not going to be a military connection. We train law enforcement and military officers around the world through my company at Operational Tactics.

The AK-74 is primarily a Russian weapon system, very, very uncommon in this country. The AR-15, on the other hand, shoots a .223-caliber round and is a very common weapon system in this country.

CHUNG: And why would a civilian buy one?

MEYERS: Could buy one probably for target practice. I would think that this person, who is not a sniper, but is more along the lines of a weapons aficionado, likes to go to the range to fire, probably a hunter. It's also used occasionally in hunting.

CHUNG: All right, thank you.

Pat Brown, the sniper has apparently changed his behavior. In this last shooting, he was but 30 feet away from the victim. What does that say to you?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, first of all, we have to be absolutely sure the witness reports are right that he was 30 feet away.

CHUNG: Sure. There's always that danger.

BROWN: Right.

If we go with the assumption that this is correct, he may have had some other issues going on. One possibility is that he made his decision...

CHUNG: You know what? I just noticed. It's 30 yards away.

BROWN: Yes, 30 yards away, right.

CHUNG: Go ahead.

BROWN: OK.

He might have decided -- when he arrived at the scene, perhaps he had another idea in mind. And when he got there, he found out he couldn't actually pull that off. And that was frustrating to him, because that night, he really wanted to get that shot in. His excitement had built up and he was ready to go. And the plan wasn't quite working. And that's when serial killers tend to get kind of careless. When their original plan goes out the window, then they say: "Oh, the heck with it. I'll go do something else." So he may have moved in for that particular reason.

And there's another possibility: that he wanted to get closer to the excitement. So we're not so sure which one it could be, if he has actually, indeed, been that

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: All right, Stuart Meyers, is there another possibility, that he really is not that good a marksman?

MEYERS: I think that is a distinct possibility.

Up to this point, he's demonstrated proficiency with the weapon system that he's using. That weapon system is designed to be accurate out to several hundred yards away. I think what's happening is, he's stepping up to many challenges that have been issued to him. He was originally issued a challenge that kids are safe, and he goes out and shoots a kid.

He was then issued a challenge that law enforcement is saturating the counties in that area, and he shoots somebody with a law enforcement officer. I've heard several experts issue challenges, so to speak, that he hasn't been taking head shots. I think that he might have wanted to get that close to ensure a head shot. But his skill is not that of a professional sniper.

And it's important for people to understand, too, that professional snipers are out there to save lives. Their primary function is observation and intelligence gathering to save hostages' lives on tactical operations, as well as soldiers' lives in combat operations.

CHUNG: All right.

Pat Brown, the military has been brought in, surveillance. Do you think that this is scaring the sniper?

BROWN: Well, I think it's an interesting possibility, because, right now, he's been used to working on the ground. That's where his comfort zone is, driving around, sneaking around behind bushes or behind his van.

He knows the ground. He knows how the roadways work and where the police cars are coming from. And now he's got an interesting problem on his hands. If suddenly he thinks people are looking down at him, then he has a new problem. Is he going to be able to function under this kind of stress and will he think that he is going to be observed?

CHUNG: So will he cease and desist?

BROWN: Well, that's all our hope that he would do that, because maybe he thinks it's getting a little too dicey for him.

CHUNG: Is it likely that he will, Pat?

BROWN: Well, it's hard to say likelihood in any of these cases, because some serial killers can go on for quite a while and some serial killers, when they feel the pressure gets too much, will say to themselves, "Hey, this is a good time to stop, sit back, and just wait and see what happens."

CHUNG: Would he stop, sit back to wait to see what happens, or would he kill himself?

BROWN: I don't think he's going to kill himself. He's enjoying this too darn much.

Now, what he might do is, sit back, never do it again, and just live in the past, saying, "Look what I did once upon a time." Or he might cease and desist for a while and return six months later or a year later, when everybody is thinking, well, we didn't catch the guy and it's all over. So what we hope is that he stops long enough for the police to finish their investigation, actually go after all these persons of interest that they have, have enough time to actually dog down all the information and identify the guy before he shoots someone again.

CHUNG: Stuart Meyers, I know you were making the point -- and it's important to know -- that people who are trained snipers do not obviously go around doing things like this. But the question is, you have a company that trains snipers. Could he have possibly have gone to your company for training?

MEYERS: No. We exclusively train law enforcement and military snipers. We have trained law enforcement officers from almost every state in the United States. We've trained special forces military snipers. And we've trained some international counterterrorist teams.

I would tell you with a virtual certainty that it is impossible for him to have gone through our company. However, there are other companies out there, for a price, will train anybody.

CHUNG: All right, Stuart Meyers, Pat Brown, thank you for being with us.

And coming up: Why hasn't President Bush supported ballistics registration, even though police say it will help them catch criminals?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: The Bush administration today signaled that it may soften its opposition to a national registration of the unique markings or fingerprinting, as it's called, that every gun leaves on the bullets it fires. The sniper attacks have given new urgency to calls for such a national system, which would apply to guns being sold, not guns already in the hands of private owners.

CNN's Michael Okwu explains the technology police say will help them fight crime.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Investigators say one of the best ways to connect gun crimes to criminals is ballistic fingerprinting. And to understand how ballistic fingerprinting works, we talked to a former ATF Agent Pete Gagliardi of Forensic Technology, a ballistic cataloging company for law enforcement. Gagliardi says you start at the beginning, the ammunition.

PETE GAGLIARDI, V.P. OF U.S. OPERATIONS, FORENSIC TECHNOLOGY: You have the bullet. You have the cartridge case that contains propellant. You have the primer, soft metal, softer than the base of the cartridge case. And it's shock sensitive.

OKWU: When a gun is fired, any gun, it leaves unique markings on all these. For example, the firing pin released from that hole when a gun is fired leaves microscopic marks on the primer.

GAGLIARDI: And the cartridge case is pushed back against the breach face. So what you have is, you not only have a firing pin impression in the primer, but you have breach face marks surrounding the firing pin impression.

OKWU: As the bullet moves through the barrel, it scrapes along grooves or rifling, produced to maximize its accuracy and velocity. We've lit this barrel so you actually can see them. Each groove contains unique microscopic impressions caused by the tool used to create the rifling. These, in turn, leave marks on the bullet, making every bullet fired distinct and potentially traceable.

Companies like Forensic Technology already keep digital records of guns and ammunition used in crimes. Gun safety advocates now want the unique markings of all guns catalogued so that, in the event of a crime, those unique characteristics could be matched to a bullet fingerprint on file.

MATT BENNETT, AMERICANS FOR GUN SAFETY: We have the technology. And infrastructure is there as well. There's more than 200 of these imaging systems that have been distributed to law enforcement around the country. They're ready to go. But we need a national law that requires that every new gun sold is submitted to this kind of test.

OKWU: Gun shop owners are against any kind of ballistic fingerprinting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And all anybody would have to do, if they wanted to change that, they would just change the barrel. And you would take a barrel and change the barrel in a Colt and a magazine, and it would be just like an entirely different gun. OKWU: With the sniper on the loose, it is a debate that may reach a crescendo.

Michael Okwu, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: And joining me from now Washington with two very different angles on this debate are John Lott, author of "More Guns, Less Crime," a former Yale law professor now at the American Enterprise Institute; and Bob Ricker, an attorney who works for companies in the firearms industry and has worked for Forensic Technology, the ballistics identification company just mentioned in that report.

Let's start with Mr. Ricker.

If this technology had been in place prior to this sniper shooting spree, would this sniper still be on the loose?

BOB RICKER, ATTORNEY: Well, that's a good question, Connie.

And I think that what we would need to look at is the type of weapon that the sniper is using and whether or not that was the type of firearm that was going to be imaged and data taken on that particular firearm.

CHUNG: Well, Mr. Lott, don't you believe that, since the casing was found and some bullet fragments were found in this particular case, that it could help, in other words, that there could be some kind of match, information could occur, would emerge?

JOHN LOTT, AUTHOR, "MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME": Well, Maryland has this for handguns now. The law went into effect the beginning of 2001. And there's been no cases that have been solved in Maryland as a result of the rules that they have for handguns. In New York state...

RICKER: Well, John, that's not quite correct. There have been two cases where this system has been used to gather evidence in a crime. There hasn't been a conviction, but it's been used on two occasions.

LOTT: Well, as of today, the state attorney general's office, when we called them up, said that there had been no crimes that had been solved. Now, maybe they were referring to violent crimes and you're referring to a theft of a gun that had occurred.

But, in New York, which has also had this law since March 2001, the state police there say, as of today, that there has not been a case that's been solved as a result of this technology. These are costly systems. The state of New York spent well over $4 million.

(CROSSTALK)

RICKER: The problem here is, you have two well-known firearms manufacturers, one of the largest in America and one of the most well- known throughout the world, that have already bought into the technology. We know the technology works. It's just a matter of building an additional database to run the system.

LOTT: That's a little bit of a

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: You know what? Mr. Lott is not the only one who has expressed some kind of skepticism. Let's just listen to what Ari Fleischer had to say, the White House spokesperson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The more a gun is used, the less accurate the tracing can become. The ability of somebody who's obviously in the business of committing crimes and therefore wants to figure out ways to protect his ability to commit a crime without being caught. To alter the barrel of a gun.

Such things as a simple nail file put down the barrel of a gun can alter the amount of tracing that's on a bullet, and therefore change the accuracy of the fingerprinting, very unlike any fingerprinting of human beings. A nail file can not alter the fingerprint of a human. A nail file can alter the fingerprinting of a weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHUNG: Mr. Ricker, it does seem as if the technology is not foolproof.

RICKER: Well, Connie, it's not foolproof. But just like fingerprints, for years, criminals have known that they simply have to wear a pair of gloves and they're not going to leave their fingerprints at a crime scene. That still doesn't stop law enforcement from dusting for fingerprints or maintaining a fingerprint database.

(CROSSTALK)

LOTT: But this is quite different. People's fingerprints don't change over time.

CHUNG: Mr. Lott, let me just bring one more point in, because I can appreciate what Mr. Ricker is saying.

But let's take a look at what the ATF has studied. This is a ballistics identification technology report. And it says that, according to the ATF: "Marks on firearm evidence have been consistent through thousands of firings. And while not particularly difficult to alter a weapon, the instances of this occurring were exceedingly rare and were not successful. And links between crimes can be easily confirmed."

That sounds rather convincing. (CROSSTALK)

RICKER: It is convincing, Connie. It's very convincing. It's being used right now in this sniper case. And I think that the issue is: Are we going to expand our database from just crime guns and crime cartridges and bullets that are collected at crime scenes, or are we going to expand it and see if we can find a valuable law enforcement tool that law enforcement can use?

LOTT: You know what? This would be great if it worked. But you have a tradeoff. You have to say, we have millions of dollars that we're going to be spending on this in Maryland. How many police could we have hired? What's going to be the effect on the number of crimes by taking money that we could have used for police on something that hasn't solved any crimes there?

(CROSSTALK)

LOTT: Sir, if I could just finish the thought here, OK?

RICKER: You can't take a one-year time period on this type of technology and say that it has failed. We need to go much longer.

LOTT: No, no. The Clinton administration for years was arguing about time to crime, talking about it being less than three years. We have almost two years now in which the law has been in effect. You would think that there would be a sizable number that would fit into that.

RICKER: John, you know we have less than a year that casings have actually been collected and imputed in Maryland and New York.

LOTT: In New York, it's been a year-and-a-half.

(CROSSTALK)

LOTT: Look, I don't mind having another year or so of testing. I'm willing to bet you, though, even if you go to the full three years, as opposed to a year-and-a-half or a year-and-three-quarters, you're going to get numbers that are going to be fairly similar to what we're already facing here.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Just one last question, Mr. Ricker, in about five seconds: Most guns that are used in crimes are stolen. So what good does it do to go back to the original owner?

RICKER: Well, because what you do is, through the testing on this database, you can provide a lead to law enforcement. You can go back to the first retail purchaser.

And let's say this case, for example. If law enforcement could go back to that first retail purchaser of that AR-15 or that AK-74, that would be a tremendous lead in this case. It's not going to identify the criminal, if the gun was stolen, but it would be a very useful law enforcement tool that we shouldn't just, out of hand, reject.

CHUNG: Bob Ricker, thank you. John Lott, thank you both for being with us. We appreciate it.

LOTT: Thank you.

CHUNG: Still ahead: an area that's home to almost 3.5 million people living in the crosshairs, living in fear.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: According to the Census Bureau, almost 3.5 million people live in the sniper's hunting grounds. Police are giving them advice about how to live their lives. If you are outside, they said, keep moving. Stay in a dark area, if you can. Zigzag while you walk and don't do many of the things you would normally do, or at least do them differently.

As CNN's Jason Carroll reports, that's what it means to live in the crosshairs.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ann Henson, a housewife from Alexandria, Virginia, used to pump her own gas, but not anymore.

(on camera): Tell me why you've been avoiding the gas station.

ANN HENSON, VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Well, for the obvious reasons. There have been murders at gas stations, yes. And you just try to be as careful as you can.

CARROLL (voice-over): Henson knew the Guardian Angels would be at this Texaco to pump and give us a sense of protection.

JOHN AYALA, GUARDIAN ANGELS: We're getting a really good response. And people are telling us they come here only because we are here.

CARROLL: The sniper has attacked 11 people. But his actions affected millions. Glenn Warner says business at his Texaco is down.

GLENN WARNER, GAS STATION OWNER: Everybody has the apprehension of not knowing where the next target is. Business dropped off about 15 percent.

CARROLL: Driving in this community has changed, too, if you happen to be behind the wheel of a white van.

(on camera): I also couldn't help but notice that you are driving a white van.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A white van. CARROLL: It's popular.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually got stopped in Montgomery County.

CARROLL (voice-over): At the Home Depot in Falls Church, Virginia, where Monday's shooting took place, a memorial just a few feet from the store's entrance -- shoppers slowly returning, one with an odd sense of safety.

HARRIET ALPOS, SHOPPER: I felt kind of safe, because I don't think he's going to do it here again.

CARROLL (on camera): So that's why you felt it was safe to come out?

ALPOS: I feel safer at this one than any other one.

CARROLL (voice-over): About a mile from the Home Depot shooting, a police car sits and waits for school to let out. Parents like Jo (ph) and Roland Drum volunteer at the school where their son attends the seventh grade.

CARROLL (on camera): Explain for people who are not from this area, if you will, how things are different now than they were before.

ROLAND DRUM, PARENT: Everybody I know is scared to go to the gas station, is scared to go to a parking lot that has stores in it.

CARROLL: Well, what about inside school? Can you give us a sense of what it's been like for you and some of your classmates?

HOLDEN DRUM, STUDENT: Well, we aren't allowed to go out to recess or anything. But we stay calm and just manage our day.

CARROLL: (voice-over): The questions that the Drums cannot answer for their son is when things will be the way they used to be. Much of that, they say, depends on when or if the sniper is caught.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Falls Church, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: For some, the worst fears were realized. And when we come back: the father of sniper victim Lori Lewis-Rivera.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: One way the sniper has spread fear is by turning ordinary locations, such as parking lots and gas stations, into places where death can strike instantly, without warning.

Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, a 25-year-old woman, was vacuuming her minivan at a Shell station in Kensington, Maryland, on October 3 when the sniper fired a shot, a single shot, through her back. Lori Lewis- Rivera died.

Left behind to mourn her are her husband Nelson (ph), their 3 1/2-year-old daughter Jocelyn and the rest of her family, her mom and her dad. And tonight, her father, Marion Lewis, joins us.

Thank you so much for being with us.

I'm so sorry about your loss.

MARION LEWIS, FATHER OF SNIPER VICTIM: Thank you.

CHUNG: Why don't you tell us about Lori?

LEWIS: She was a beautiful young woman. She didn't have any enemies. She loved people. Her biggest thrill was her daughter Jocelyn. She decided in junior high that she was going to be a nanny.

CHUNG: Isn't that something.

LEWIS: How many kids make up their mind what they are going to do and realize their life's ambitions?

CHUNG: Right. So she pursued it?

LEWIS: She did. She went to the Northwest Nannies Institute in Portland, Oregon, and graduated. She was near the top of her class. They had a placement. And she did several interviews. And the interview that she did that brought her to Washington was, she talked to them and liked them, and they liked her.

CHUNG: So that's when she became their nanny?

LEWIS: Yes.

CHUNG: Tell me, did you -- were you concerned when you heard about the sniper shootings, that your daughter might be in danger, because you knew that she lived in this area. Did it connect for you at all?

LEWIS: I didn't know anything about it.

CHUNG: Ah, because you're living in...

LEWIS: I was working out in the hills, in the desert. And I wasn't watching the news at night. So I didn't know anything about the sniper shootings.

CHUNG: How did you, then, find out that your daughter had been shot by a sniper?

LEWIS: My wife called me after we came in from work one evening.

CHUNG: You had to have been just incredibly shocked.

LEWIS: I'm still in a bit of shock. It's...

CHUNG: And how are her husband and little Jocelyn, 3 1/2 years old?

LEWIS: Nelson's doing fair. He's been devastated.

CHUNG: Sure.

Tell me, sir...

LEWIS: Jocelyn...

CHUNG: ... one last question, what do you think of this sniper?

LEWIS: I think he can't spell very well.

CHUNG: What do you mean?

LEWIS: Well, his tarot card, it said, "I am God." He spelled it backwards. He's an animal. I call him a dog -- very reluctantly, because there's lot of people that like dogs. Yes, I'm trying to insult the man. I don't consider him a man. But other than that, I don't know what thoughts to tell you about him.

CHUNG: Well, you take care. And I thank you so much for coming in and talking about Lori, because I think you did bring her to life to our viewers, all right?

LEWIS: Yes.

CHUNG: Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Appreciate it. And will you give my best to your wife as well?

LEWIS: I'll do that.

CHUNG: OK.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Tomorrow, we'll bring you the latest developments in the hunt for the Washington sniper.

And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": A former forensic director from the FBI talks about the clues: plus, the theft trial of Princess Diana's former butler. Will Prince Charles and Prince William be called to testify?

Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Military to Take Part in Search>


Aired October 16, 2002 - 20:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CONNIE CHUNG, HOST: Good evening. I'm Connie Chung.
Tonight: how the sniper changed his tactics and how the police have changed theirs, too.

ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT: "Sniper on the Loose," two weeks of terror, the search for a killer, a community in fear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm just sick, sick to my stomach.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are very scared. Everybody's scared. We're scared to go to the store. We're scared to pump gas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am definitely not taking her out until this guy is captured.

DOUG DUNCAN, MONTGOMERY COUNTY EXECUTIVE: We are all struggling together to get through this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is a special edition of CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT: "Sniper on the Loose. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York: Connie Chung.

CHUNG: Good evening.

Authorities investigating the sniper shootings in the Washington, D.C. area tonight have some tantalizing new information to work with. CNN has learned that they have a number of people under surveillance as they track possible leads in the case. And the latest incident Monday, night's killing of Linda Franklin in a Home Depot parking lot in Falls Church, Virginia, provided many of the new clues police have.

The sniper appears to be getting bolder. He apparently was a lot closer than ever to his victim on Monday night. Some witnesses say they saw a man with a weapon. There are some hints about the weapon used and part of a license plate number. Tonight, we'll have details on all of this, as well as new information from the Pentagon today about how they are helping in the church. But first, CNN's Jeanne Meserve is at the evidence desk in Washington with the latest on what investigators have pieced together -- Jeanne.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Connie, investigators know a lot more after the Falls Church shooting than they did before, but they still don't know enough. The evidence is sparse. And although there are common threads, there are inconsistencies, contradictions, and puzzles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): In Falls Church, for the first time, we're told, there were witnesses who provided descriptions of the shooter. But they didn't agree on what he looked like. And so authorities had no sketch to release.

CAPT. NANCY DEMME, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Fairfax County police worked with their witnesses. And, unfortunately, because of darkness and distance and perhaps excitement and adrenaline at the time, they were unable to come up with a composite.

MESERVE: Witnesses also provided partial license plate numbers, only partial. They described a van with a ladder rack which resembles the description of one seen at last Friday's shooting in Fredericksburg, Virginia. But it doesn't match the composite of a white truck that other witnesses said was seen in the initial spree of shootings two weeks ago.

Even so, Falls Church brought more clues than any time since a school child was wounded in Bowie, Maryland, where investigators found a single shell casing and a tarot card like this with a handwritten message, "Mr. Policeman, I am God," the most tantalizing clue yet. The tarot card has undergone extensive laboratory analysis. Whatever investigators found, they've kept to themselves. They've also reviewed surveillance tapes from several crime scenes -- again, no word on whether they've produced any useful picture of a suspect or a vehicle.

The victims appear to have been chosen at random and there appears to be no discernible pattern to the nature of the shootings. In Bowie, investigators found the shell casing and tarot card 140 to 150 yards away. But in Falls Church, investigators say, the sniper stood only 30 yards from his victim.

And the layout of some of the other crime scenes suggest the shooter may have had to have been relatively close by. One of the first victims, mowing a narrow strip of grass, was shot down in the middle of a side street that is only one block along. Others were killed in busy commercial areas, with little cover for hiding.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Some of the common threads: There have been four shootings at gas stations, four in parking lots, and several at or near Michaels craft shops. The one common thread is this: .223- caliber ammunition fired from the same gun. A witness in Falls Church told police he recognized that gun as an AK-74, a relatively rare weapon. But investigators are holding out the possibility that the witness got it wrong -- Connie.

CHUNG: Jeanne, there must be, what, more than a dozen agencies and jurisdictions involved in this investigation. How is it being coordinated?

MESERVE: Well, it's a mixed picture.

I'm told that the coordination between the federal agencies and between the federal agencies and the local jurisdictions is going quite well, the results of 9/11, the lessons learned. However, I'm told that, between the local jurisdictions, there are some jealousies. There are a lot of people here who are used to being the top dogs.

Someone compared it to the Pentagon to me. They said, you have got the Air Force, the Army, the Navy, Marines, all with their own jealousies, even though they have a common mission. There was a meeting today in which they tried to hash some of this out. I'm told that some of the chiefs from Virginia in particular were upset that they felt some information was being held from them. The response was: "Be more active in the task force. You'll learn more" -- Connie.

CHUNG: All right, Jeanne Meserve in Washington, thank you.

We're going to interrupt our coverage of the sniper shooting for a late report, a late development from John King at the White House. We'll have that just a little later. It involves sources telling us that North Korea has acknowledged that it has a secret nuclear weapons program. We'll have more on that in just a moment.

Now the shooting of Linda Franklin in Fairfax County Monday night may prove to be a breakthrough for investigators, yielding the first eyewitnesses and even partial license plate information.

CNN national correspondent Bob Franken is at the shooting scene in Falls Church, Virginia, tonight with more on what is known about Monday night's murder.

Bob, as I understand it, the investigators believe that they have the most witness information, bar none, of all of these incidents from Monday night's shooting. And they have even been able to sort of piece together exactly what happened. Can you show us what you believe that the police know?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what the police have been told by several witnesses, the witnesses who would be coming here, as they are now, shopping at the Home Depot, is that they were able to watch where the sniper operated from, according to the witnesses.

Now, it really strikes you how close it is. You will see behind me that flat part which marks the spot where Linda Franklin lost her life, where the sniper shot her. Now, I want to walk up. It's just 30 yards away. And we're walking from that spot up here right now in the parking garage to the precise point that the witnesses said that he parked.

And that point was right here, right where you are seeing, right outside the parking area, with his van, the Astro van or the Ford van -- they are not sure which -- facing to the West, facing to my left, facing in that direction. And, according to witnesses, apparently what happened, they watched him fire from behind the van, outside the van, by the way, and then hop into the van and take off down this very, very short road to the stop sign you can see down there, take a right, and immediately go on the access road which runs parallel to this parking garage.

It's probably about a quarter-of-a-mile up to the intersection. He could take a quick left and then get on highway 50, which is the roadway which runs through here, get on that and melt into traffic, melt into the night, which is precisely what happened. Of course, it would take just about a minute, probably no more than that, much faster than anybody could even get over the shock of what just happened, and, of course, Connie, much longer than the arrival of the police.

So it happened very quickly. And most people believe that it just shows how methodical in planning that the sniper or snipers, their methodical planning is.

CHUNG: Bob, that is just so extraordinary. Now I can really see what was happening.

Now, you said that the shooter was outside the van and then got into the van. Did the witnesses, from what you could get from your reporting, say that he got into the back of the van or the driver's seat or the passenger's seat?

FRANKEN: We don't have any precise information like that. And Jeanne Meserve was reporting about a problem. And that is, is that, even with that information, there is a lot that's really unclear. There are various descriptions, various descriptions of what happened.

Of course, the question always comes up: Was one person seen or two people seen? All that they report is that he got into the van and took off down that way, which would have been the way out of here, and was able to, as I said, quickly melt into the night.

CHUNG: All right, Bob Franken, thank you so much, from the scene of the sniper's latest attack.

Now we're going to turn to the nerve center of the investigation in Rockville, Maryland, where CNN's Kathleen Koch joins us.

Kathleen, what's the latest from the command center?

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Connie, this is the very first day since these shootings began back on October 2 that we did not get a briefing from Montgomery County police Chief Charles Moose, who has become a nationally known figure since the shootings started.

We were told that today he was in a strategy planning session with other members of the task force, the FBI, the ATF, local police chiefs. We don't know whether or not this means they are going to start pursuing a new tactic in trying to catch the killer, a tactic that perhaps would be more successful than what they've pursued so far -- Connie.

CHUNG: Kathleen, as I understand it, there have been something like 69,000 tips and 15,000 alone from last Monday's shooting. How can they manage this number of tips? Do they have enough people to ferret out the information?

KOCH: Well, Connie, they have -- just answering phones alone at the FBI facility where the calls are coming in, they have 75 officers and then hundreds more from there. There are hundreds of investigators working this case. And so they are going out throughout this county and surrounding counties and pursuing the leads that they find credible.

We have been trying to figure out: Well, how do you describe and determine a credible lead? And they say it has to be a lead that has some nugget of truth, some nugget of interest, something that sets it apart, that makes it worth assigning an investigator to. Now, as Kelli Arena was reporting earlier tonight, now they have people under surveillance. They say that's because of the flood of clues that are coming in.

But they say these people aren't suspects. They are checking them. They are talking to them. They are watching them, checking their activities during the nights of the shootings and the days of the shootings and trying to find out if there is a match and eliminating many of them. But, clearly, all of this is because people are calling in. And the police, though they are swamped with calls, they don't want anyone to stop, because they believe that the public will really be critical in solving this case.

CHUNG: Kathleen, how are they holding up, all those law enforcement people? I think the pressure must be enormous.

KOCH: The pressure is enormous. Many of them also live obviously in this area. They have families. They have wives, children, parents who could be potential targets of this killer. So it's very stressful. They are working long hours, 12, 16 hours.

But they're truly determined. The police chief has said at one briefing, when I ask them: "How are you doing; how are you holding up?" they say, "What else can I do?" Obviously, the shooting Monday a week ago of that young boy at the middle school, that really steeled their determination. And they are more optimistic now than ever before, because, as has been pointed out in this show, the killer is getting sloppier. The killer is getting bolder.

They're getting more and better witnesses every time he strikes. So they're hopeful and they're determined, but they are certainly tired -- back to you.

CHUNG: Kathleen, you mentioned that 13-year-old boy. And I just want to quickly, in five seconds, find out, is he still in critical condition, do you know?

KOCH: As far as we know, yes, he's still hospitalized at Children's National Medical Center, one of the best pediatric facilities in the country, where he's getting the best care possible. But he has got a long road ahead of him, Connie.

CHUNG: All right, Kathleen Koch in Rockville, Maryland, tonight, thank you.

The Washington area sniper is the target of a breathtaking number of agencies, as we just said, local and federal, including the Secret Service, the Customs Service, the Marshals Service, the CIA, U.S. Park Police, and postal inspectors. And then there are the hundreds of local police on the front lines.

One of the leaders in the investigative task force is Spotsylvania County Sheriff Ronald Knight, who joins me now from Spotsylvania, Virginia.

Thank you, sir, for being with us.

RONALD KNIGHT, SPOTSYLVANIA COUNTY SHERIFF: Thank you.

CHUNG: Yes, we appreciate it.

Now, there were two victims in your area. I know one of them was October 4, a woman who was in the parking lot of a Michaels craft store. And she survived. How is she doing?

KNIGHT: She's mending quite well. And we are certainly thankful that she's doing as well as she is.

CHUNG: And with the sniper still on the loose, how would you say people are holding up, as you look around your area?

KNIGHT: Well, they are certainly tentative and pensive about going out, of course. And we're doing our best to quell those fears as much as we can. Of course, we're covering all the public and private schools in the county. And the day-to-day answering of calls and stuff is really stretching us out. So we're averaging 14 to 16 hours a day, seven days a week on this.

CHUNG: Sheriff, I don't know how anyone can sort of lead a normal life. I would think that everyone, from law enforcement to retailers, to just regular people, parents, kids going to school, have to be just so tense.

KNIGHT: Well, it is. They are very mindful of their surroundings. And that's what we keep telling them when they go out: to be observant and be watching out for anything strange. However insignificant it might be, we just ask them to be mindful, and, if they see something, please call us and we'll do our best to get there as quick as we can.

CHUNG: Based on what you know about the investigation, do you think that a composite sketch will be released soon? KNIGHT: Well, as you know, with witnesses, are inherent sometimes being off because either they are scared or frightened or whatever. And that's why we don't want to put anything out to the media until we are really and fairly sure that that's what we want to show, because, remember, the integrity of this case is just as important, because it is a criminal case.

And when this person is brought to justice, they are going to have their time with defense attorneys. And everything that we've done until now is going to be scrutinized. So we don't want to lose a case because evidence is suppressed because we did something wrong. And that's why we are trying to be as careful as we can as to what we do release.

CHUNG: Sheriff, give us a sense. Do you think that the sniper is getting close to being caught?

KNIGHT: Well, I would hope so. We certainly pray that nobody else gets hurt.

But we think the way this is going, he's either getting bolder or he's getting sloppy, or both. And we're getting some more witnesses each time that are seeing different things. And, of course, the common thread right now is the white van with the ladder rack, of course.

CHUNG: You are so right about being bolder and sloppy. What's extraordinary is that he was so close to the victim, as we reported, in this latest shooting on Monday, and yet he was outside the van, as far as one witness is concerned. And it just doesn't make sense, does it?

KNIGHT: Not really.

And, of course, I'm not smart enough to be able to tell you what's in his mind, of course. But, in our case, we feel fairly certain that the shot came from within the van, rather than somewhere else. So, again, we're consistent on the van for sure right now.

CHUNG: All right, Sheriff Ronald Knight, thank you so much for being with us.

Now, before we continue our coverage of the D.C. sniper story, we have some late developments I had mentioned before involving North Korea, a country that President Bush has labeled as part of a -- quote -- "axis of evil," along with Iraq and Iran.

A senior administration official said this evening that North Korea has told the United States it has a secret nuclear weapons program, in violation of an agreement with the U.S.

Senior White House correspondent John King has details -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And, Connie, officials telling us this startling revelation: The admission from North Korea that it has a nuclear weapons program active today came on October 4, 12 days ago.

The assistant secretary of state, James Kelly, was in Pyongyang meeting with a top aide to the North Korean president, Kim Jong Il. Secretary Kelly told the North Koreans the U.S. had firm intelligence that North Korea was back building a nuclear weapons program. The North Koreans did not dispute that evidence, even conceded that was the case.

U.S. officials say they were startled by that. They were expecting a denial from the North Koreans. That set off a series of high-level meetings throughout the administration, culminating in a National Security Council meeting here at the White House yesterday -- U.S. officials now involved, Connie, in urgent consultations with Tokyo and with Seoul, Japan and South Korea, we are told, to look for statements from those governments in the next several hours.

This could have major ramifications. And it comes, of course, at a time when North Korea has been trying to end its isolation, acknowledging the kidnappings of Japanese citizens, trying to have more ties across the demilitarized zone with South Korea. U.S. officials say it is still unclear how they will proceed from here. They say a lot of that depends on how North Korea responds now and what the governments of Japan and South Korea want to do, along with the United States -- Connie.

CHUNG: John, is there any official White House reaction?

KING: No official word yet. We're getting this word tonight from senior administration officials. We are told, because the 1994 agreement, struck during the Clinton administration, the parties to that involve the two key U.S. allies in Asia, Japan and South Korea. The White House wants to have consultations with those governments before deciding how to proceed and is waiting for those governments to make public statements first because of their proximity, of course, to North Korea.

President Bush, though, is scheduled to meet with Prime Minister Koizumi and Prime Minister Kim, those three leaders scheduled to meet later this month at the annual Asian Pacific Economic conference. Look for the developments to culminate at that meeting.

CHUNG: All right, John King, at the White House, thank you.

Once again, this administration learning that North Korea has a secret nuclear weapons program.

We'll be back with more news in a moment.

The United States military joins the hunt for the sniper. How? Some of it is secret. We'll tell you the rest of it in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: The American Civil Liberties Union says it's taking a hard look at the Pentagon's role in the search for the sniper. The Posse Comitatus law, passed after the Civil War, prohibits the military from doing domestic police work. Now civil libertarians are concerned that Congress has removed some of the barriers that keep the military from being used again American citizens.

And today, CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr has learned more about exactly what resources the U.S. military is bringing to bear against the sniper stalking suburban Washington.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Army reconnaissance planes will fly over Washington, D.C., military eyes in the sky. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke about it for the first time.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We are leaning forward and have agreed to provide some assistance of various type.

STARR: The RC-7 known as the airborne reconnaissance low, can operate day or night in all weather staying aloft for several hours.

The plane with a crew of seven was originally designed to be used by the military for drug surveillance operations. It is packed with sophisticated sensors that can survey the ground and record imagery, pictures of what is happening below. It will be able to track vehicles on the move. Communications gear will allow that information to be transmitted quickly to hundreds of law enforcement personnel on the ground.

A U-21 beach craft like this one with advanced reconnaissance equipment and a crew of eight will also be part of the mission. Pentagon officials again emphasize the operation is run by law enforcement. The military will operate the aircraft and pass intelligence to an FBI agent that will be on board. But the FBI will decide if any of that information represents a target to pursue. That will ensure the entire operation is within the law.

(on camera): Pentagon officials disclosed the operation knowing that these planes would be seen in the congested airspace around Washington, D.C. But they still do not want to openly discuss exactly what these aircraft are going to do. They hope to be ready to move in if the sniper strikes again.

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: Hunting from the air isn't the only way to find the sniper. Investigators are also trying to find him from the inside out by trying to get inside his mind.

Joining us now to talk about the mind of a sniper: criminal profiler Pat Brown, CEO of the Sexual Homicide Exchange in Washington; and former sniper and trainer of snipers, Stuart Meyers, once a member of the Montgomery County SWAT team. And he joins us from Denver.

Thank you both for between with us. Stuart, I'll start with you. One of the witnesses apparently says that he or she believes that the weapon was an AK-74. But we've also heard that the likelihood is that the weapon is a Colt AR-15, it's called, a civilian version of the military M-16. So, first, the difference between the AK-74 and the Colt AR-15, and, secondly, could there be a military connection?

STUART MEYERS, FORMER MONTGOMERY COUNTY SWAT TEAM MEMBER: I would think there's not going to be a military connection. We train law enforcement and military officers around the world through my company at Operational Tactics.

The AK-74 is primarily a Russian weapon system, very, very uncommon in this country. The AR-15, on the other hand, shoots a .223-caliber round and is a very common weapon system in this country.

CHUNG: And why would a civilian buy one?

MEYERS: Could buy one probably for target practice. I would think that this person, who is not a sniper, but is more along the lines of a weapons aficionado, likes to go to the range to fire, probably a hunter. It's also used occasionally in hunting.

CHUNG: All right, thank you.

Pat Brown, the sniper has apparently changed his behavior. In this last shooting, he was but 30 feet away from the victim. What does that say to you?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, first of all, we have to be absolutely sure the witness reports are right that he was 30 feet away.

CHUNG: Sure. There's always that danger.

BROWN: Right.

If we go with the assumption that this is correct, he may have had some other issues going on. One possibility is that he made his decision...

CHUNG: You know what? I just noticed. It's 30 yards away.

BROWN: Yes, 30 yards away, right.

CHUNG: Go ahead.

BROWN: OK.

He might have decided -- when he arrived at the scene, perhaps he had another idea in mind. And when he got there, he found out he couldn't actually pull that off. And that was frustrating to him, because that night, he really wanted to get that shot in. His excitement had built up and he was ready to go. And the plan wasn't quite working. And that's when serial killers tend to get kind of careless. When their original plan goes out the window, then they say: "Oh, the heck with it. I'll go do something else." So he may have moved in for that particular reason.

And there's another possibility: that he wanted to get closer to the excitement. So we're not so sure which one it could be, if he has actually, indeed, been that

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: All right, Stuart Meyers, is there another possibility, that he really is not that good a marksman?

MEYERS: I think that is a distinct possibility.

Up to this point, he's demonstrated proficiency with the weapon system that he's using. That weapon system is designed to be accurate out to several hundred yards away. I think what's happening is, he's stepping up to many challenges that have been issued to him. He was originally issued a challenge that kids are safe, and he goes out and shoots a kid.

He was then issued a challenge that law enforcement is saturating the counties in that area, and he shoots somebody with a law enforcement officer. I've heard several experts issue challenges, so to speak, that he hasn't been taking head shots. I think that he might have wanted to get that close to ensure a head shot. But his skill is not that of a professional sniper.

And it's important for people to understand, too, that professional snipers are out there to save lives. Their primary function is observation and intelligence gathering to save hostages' lives on tactical operations, as well as soldiers' lives in combat operations.

CHUNG: All right.

Pat Brown, the military has been brought in, surveillance. Do you think that this is scaring the sniper?

BROWN: Well, I think it's an interesting possibility, because, right now, he's been used to working on the ground. That's where his comfort zone is, driving around, sneaking around behind bushes or behind his van.

He knows the ground. He knows how the roadways work and where the police cars are coming from. And now he's got an interesting problem on his hands. If suddenly he thinks people are looking down at him, then he has a new problem. Is he going to be able to function under this kind of stress and will he think that he is going to be observed?

CHUNG: So will he cease and desist?

BROWN: Well, that's all our hope that he would do that, because maybe he thinks it's getting a little too dicey for him.

CHUNG: Is it likely that he will, Pat?

BROWN: Well, it's hard to say likelihood in any of these cases, because some serial killers can go on for quite a while and some serial killers, when they feel the pressure gets too much, will say to themselves, "Hey, this is a good time to stop, sit back, and just wait and see what happens."

CHUNG: Would he stop, sit back to wait to see what happens, or would he kill himself?

BROWN: I don't think he's going to kill himself. He's enjoying this too darn much.

Now, what he might do is, sit back, never do it again, and just live in the past, saying, "Look what I did once upon a time." Or he might cease and desist for a while and return six months later or a year later, when everybody is thinking, well, we didn't catch the guy and it's all over. So what we hope is that he stops long enough for the police to finish their investigation, actually go after all these persons of interest that they have, have enough time to actually dog down all the information and identify the guy before he shoots someone again.

CHUNG: Stuart Meyers, I know you were making the point -- and it's important to know -- that people who are trained snipers do not obviously go around doing things like this. But the question is, you have a company that trains snipers. Could he have possibly have gone to your company for training?

MEYERS: No. We exclusively train law enforcement and military snipers. We have trained law enforcement officers from almost every state in the United States. We've trained special forces military snipers. And we've trained some international counterterrorist teams.

I would tell you with a virtual certainty that it is impossible for him to have gone through our company. However, there are other companies out there, for a price, will train anybody.

CHUNG: All right, Stuart Meyers, Pat Brown, thank you for being with us.

And coming up: Why hasn't President Bush supported ballistics registration, even though police say it will help them catch criminals?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: The Bush administration today signaled that it may soften its opposition to a national registration of the unique markings or fingerprinting, as it's called, that every gun leaves on the bullets it fires. The sniper attacks have given new urgency to calls for such a national system, which would apply to guns being sold, not guns already in the hands of private owners.

CNN's Michael Okwu explains the technology police say will help them fight crime.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL OKWU, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Investigators say one of the best ways to connect gun crimes to criminals is ballistic fingerprinting. And to understand how ballistic fingerprinting works, we talked to a former ATF Agent Pete Gagliardi of Forensic Technology, a ballistic cataloging company for law enforcement. Gagliardi says you start at the beginning, the ammunition.

PETE GAGLIARDI, V.P. OF U.S. OPERATIONS, FORENSIC TECHNOLOGY: You have the bullet. You have the cartridge case that contains propellant. You have the primer, soft metal, softer than the base of the cartridge case. And it's shock sensitive.

OKWU: When a gun is fired, any gun, it leaves unique markings on all these. For example, the firing pin released from that hole when a gun is fired leaves microscopic marks on the primer.

GAGLIARDI: And the cartridge case is pushed back against the breach face. So what you have is, you not only have a firing pin impression in the primer, but you have breach face marks surrounding the firing pin impression.

OKWU: As the bullet moves through the barrel, it scrapes along grooves or rifling, produced to maximize its accuracy and velocity. We've lit this barrel so you actually can see them. Each groove contains unique microscopic impressions caused by the tool used to create the rifling. These, in turn, leave marks on the bullet, making every bullet fired distinct and potentially traceable.

Companies like Forensic Technology already keep digital records of guns and ammunition used in crimes. Gun safety advocates now want the unique markings of all guns catalogued so that, in the event of a crime, those unique characteristics could be matched to a bullet fingerprint on file.

MATT BENNETT, AMERICANS FOR GUN SAFETY: We have the technology. And infrastructure is there as well. There's more than 200 of these imaging systems that have been distributed to law enforcement around the country. They're ready to go. But we need a national law that requires that every new gun sold is submitted to this kind of test.

OKWU: Gun shop owners are against any kind of ballistic fingerprinting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And all anybody would have to do, if they wanted to change that, they would just change the barrel. And you would take a barrel and change the barrel in a Colt and a magazine, and it would be just like an entirely different gun. OKWU: With the sniper on the loose, it is a debate that may reach a crescendo.

Michael Okwu, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: And joining me from now Washington with two very different angles on this debate are John Lott, author of "More Guns, Less Crime," a former Yale law professor now at the American Enterprise Institute; and Bob Ricker, an attorney who works for companies in the firearms industry and has worked for Forensic Technology, the ballistics identification company just mentioned in that report.

Let's start with Mr. Ricker.

If this technology had been in place prior to this sniper shooting spree, would this sniper still be on the loose?

BOB RICKER, ATTORNEY: Well, that's a good question, Connie.

And I think that what we would need to look at is the type of weapon that the sniper is using and whether or not that was the type of firearm that was going to be imaged and data taken on that particular firearm.

CHUNG: Well, Mr. Lott, don't you believe that, since the casing was found and some bullet fragments were found in this particular case, that it could help, in other words, that there could be some kind of match, information could occur, would emerge?

JOHN LOTT, AUTHOR, "MORE GUNS, LESS CRIME": Well, Maryland has this for handguns now. The law went into effect the beginning of 2001. And there's been no cases that have been solved in Maryland as a result of the rules that they have for handguns. In New York state...

RICKER: Well, John, that's not quite correct. There have been two cases where this system has been used to gather evidence in a crime. There hasn't been a conviction, but it's been used on two occasions.

LOTT: Well, as of today, the state attorney general's office, when we called them up, said that there had been no crimes that had been solved. Now, maybe they were referring to violent crimes and you're referring to a theft of a gun that had occurred.

But, in New York, which has also had this law since March 2001, the state police there say, as of today, that there has not been a case that's been solved as a result of this technology. These are costly systems. The state of New York spent well over $4 million.

(CROSSTALK)

RICKER: The problem here is, you have two well-known firearms manufacturers, one of the largest in America and one of the most well- known throughout the world, that have already bought into the technology. We know the technology works. It's just a matter of building an additional database to run the system.

LOTT: That's a little bit of a

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: You know what? Mr. Lott is not the only one who has expressed some kind of skepticism. Let's just listen to what Ari Fleischer had to say, the White House spokesperson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The more a gun is used, the less accurate the tracing can become. The ability of somebody who's obviously in the business of committing crimes and therefore wants to figure out ways to protect his ability to commit a crime without being caught. To alter the barrel of a gun.

Such things as a simple nail file put down the barrel of a gun can alter the amount of tracing that's on a bullet, and therefore change the accuracy of the fingerprinting, very unlike any fingerprinting of human beings. A nail file can not alter the fingerprint of a human. A nail file can alter the fingerprinting of a weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHUNG: Mr. Ricker, it does seem as if the technology is not foolproof.

RICKER: Well, Connie, it's not foolproof. But just like fingerprints, for years, criminals have known that they simply have to wear a pair of gloves and they're not going to leave their fingerprints at a crime scene. That still doesn't stop law enforcement from dusting for fingerprints or maintaining a fingerprint database.

(CROSSTALK)

LOTT: But this is quite different. People's fingerprints don't change over time.

CHUNG: Mr. Lott, let me just bring one more point in, because I can appreciate what Mr. Ricker is saying.

But let's take a look at what the ATF has studied. This is a ballistics identification technology report. And it says that, according to the ATF: "Marks on firearm evidence have been consistent through thousands of firings. And while not particularly difficult to alter a weapon, the instances of this occurring were exceedingly rare and were not successful. And links between crimes can be easily confirmed."

That sounds rather convincing. (CROSSTALK)

RICKER: It is convincing, Connie. It's very convincing. It's being used right now in this sniper case. And I think that the issue is: Are we going to expand our database from just crime guns and crime cartridges and bullets that are collected at crime scenes, or are we going to expand it and see if we can find a valuable law enforcement tool that law enforcement can use?

LOTT: You know what? This would be great if it worked. But you have a tradeoff. You have to say, we have millions of dollars that we're going to be spending on this in Maryland. How many police could we have hired? What's going to be the effect on the number of crimes by taking money that we could have used for police on something that hasn't solved any crimes there?

(CROSSTALK)

LOTT: Sir, if I could just finish the thought here, OK?

RICKER: You can't take a one-year time period on this type of technology and say that it has failed. We need to go much longer.

LOTT: No, no. The Clinton administration for years was arguing about time to crime, talking about it being less than three years. We have almost two years now in which the law has been in effect. You would think that there would be a sizable number that would fit into that.

RICKER: John, you know we have less than a year that casings have actually been collected and imputed in Maryland and New York.

LOTT: In New York, it's been a year-and-a-half.

(CROSSTALK)

LOTT: Look, I don't mind having another year or so of testing. I'm willing to bet you, though, even if you go to the full three years, as opposed to a year-and-a-half or a year-and-three-quarters, you're going to get numbers that are going to be fairly similar to what we're already facing here.

(CROSSTALK)

CHUNG: Just one last question, Mr. Ricker, in about five seconds: Most guns that are used in crimes are stolen. So what good does it do to go back to the original owner?

RICKER: Well, because what you do is, through the testing on this database, you can provide a lead to law enforcement. You can go back to the first retail purchaser.

And let's say this case, for example. If law enforcement could go back to that first retail purchaser of that AR-15 or that AK-74, that would be a tremendous lead in this case. It's not going to identify the criminal, if the gun was stolen, but it would be a very useful law enforcement tool that we shouldn't just, out of hand, reject.

CHUNG: Bob Ricker, thank you. John Lott, thank you both for being with us. We appreciate it.

LOTT: Thank you.

CHUNG: Still ahead: an area that's home to almost 3.5 million people living in the crosshairs, living in fear.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: According to the Census Bureau, almost 3.5 million people live in the sniper's hunting grounds. Police are giving them advice about how to live their lives. If you are outside, they said, keep moving. Stay in a dark area, if you can. Zigzag while you walk and don't do many of the things you would normally do, or at least do them differently.

As CNN's Jason Carroll reports, that's what it means to live in the crosshairs.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Ann Henson, a housewife from Alexandria, Virginia, used to pump her own gas, but not anymore.

(on camera): Tell me why you've been avoiding the gas station.

ANN HENSON, VIRGINIA RESIDENT: Well, for the obvious reasons. There have been murders at gas stations, yes. And you just try to be as careful as you can.

CARROLL (voice-over): Henson knew the Guardian Angels would be at this Texaco to pump and give us a sense of protection.

JOHN AYALA, GUARDIAN ANGELS: We're getting a really good response. And people are telling us they come here only because we are here.

CARROLL: The sniper has attacked 11 people. But his actions affected millions. Glenn Warner says business at his Texaco is down.

GLENN WARNER, GAS STATION OWNER: Everybody has the apprehension of not knowing where the next target is. Business dropped off about 15 percent.

CARROLL: Driving in this community has changed, too, if you happen to be behind the wheel of a white van.

(on camera): I also couldn't help but notice that you are driving a white van.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A white van. CARROLL: It's popular.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually got stopped in Montgomery County.

CARROLL (voice-over): At the Home Depot in Falls Church, Virginia, where Monday's shooting took place, a memorial just a few feet from the store's entrance -- shoppers slowly returning, one with an odd sense of safety.

HARRIET ALPOS, SHOPPER: I felt kind of safe, because I don't think he's going to do it here again.

CARROLL (on camera): So that's why you felt it was safe to come out?

ALPOS: I feel safer at this one than any other one.

CARROLL (voice-over): About a mile from the Home Depot shooting, a police car sits and waits for school to let out. Parents like Jo (ph) and Roland Drum volunteer at the school where their son attends the seventh grade.

CARROLL (on camera): Explain for people who are not from this area, if you will, how things are different now than they were before.

ROLAND DRUM, PARENT: Everybody I know is scared to go to the gas station, is scared to go to a parking lot that has stores in it.

CARROLL: Well, what about inside school? Can you give us a sense of what it's been like for you and some of your classmates?

HOLDEN DRUM, STUDENT: Well, we aren't allowed to go out to recess or anything. But we stay calm and just manage our day.

CARROLL: (voice-over): The questions that the Drums cannot answer for their son is when things will be the way they used to be. Much of that, they say, depends on when or if the sniper is caught.

Jason Carroll, CNN, Falls Church, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHUNG: For some, the worst fears were realized. And when we come back: the father of sniper victim Lori Lewis-Rivera.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: One way the sniper has spread fear is by turning ordinary locations, such as parking lots and gas stations, into places where death can strike instantly, without warning.

Lori Ann Lewis-Rivera, a 25-year-old woman, was vacuuming her minivan at a Shell station in Kensington, Maryland, on October 3 when the sniper fired a shot, a single shot, through her back. Lori Lewis- Rivera died.

Left behind to mourn her are her husband Nelson (ph), their 3 1/2-year-old daughter Jocelyn and the rest of her family, her mom and her dad. And tonight, her father, Marion Lewis, joins us.

Thank you so much for being with us.

I'm so sorry about your loss.

MARION LEWIS, FATHER OF SNIPER VICTIM: Thank you.

CHUNG: Why don't you tell us about Lori?

LEWIS: She was a beautiful young woman. She didn't have any enemies. She loved people. Her biggest thrill was her daughter Jocelyn. She decided in junior high that she was going to be a nanny.

CHUNG: Isn't that something.

LEWIS: How many kids make up their mind what they are going to do and realize their life's ambitions?

CHUNG: Right. So she pursued it?

LEWIS: She did. She went to the Northwest Nannies Institute in Portland, Oregon, and graduated. She was near the top of her class. They had a placement. And she did several interviews. And the interview that she did that brought her to Washington was, she talked to them and liked them, and they liked her.

CHUNG: So that's when she became their nanny?

LEWIS: Yes.

CHUNG: Tell me, did you -- were you concerned when you heard about the sniper shootings, that your daughter might be in danger, because you knew that she lived in this area. Did it connect for you at all?

LEWIS: I didn't know anything about it.

CHUNG: Ah, because you're living in...

LEWIS: I was working out in the hills, in the desert. And I wasn't watching the news at night. So I didn't know anything about the sniper shootings.

CHUNG: How did you, then, find out that your daughter had been shot by a sniper?

LEWIS: My wife called me after we came in from work one evening.

CHUNG: You had to have been just incredibly shocked.

LEWIS: I'm still in a bit of shock. It's...

CHUNG: And how are her husband and little Jocelyn, 3 1/2 years old?

LEWIS: Nelson's doing fair. He's been devastated.

CHUNG: Sure.

Tell me, sir...

LEWIS: Jocelyn...

CHUNG: ... one last question, what do you think of this sniper?

LEWIS: I think he can't spell very well.

CHUNG: What do you mean?

LEWIS: Well, his tarot card, it said, "I am God." He spelled it backwards. He's an animal. I call him a dog -- very reluctantly, because there's lot of people that like dogs. Yes, I'm trying to insult the man. I don't consider him a man. But other than that, I don't know what thoughts to tell you about him.

CHUNG: Well, you take care. And I thank you so much for coming in and talking about Lori, because I think you did bring her to life to our viewers, all right?

LEWIS: Yes.

CHUNG: Thank you, Mr. Lewis. Appreciate it. And will you give my best to your wife as well?

LEWIS: I'll do that.

CHUNG: OK.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CHUNG: Tomorrow, we'll bring you the latest developments in the hunt for the Washington sniper.

And coming up next on "LARRY KING LIVE": A former forensic director from the FBI talks about the clues: plus, the theft trial of Princess Diana's former butler. Will Prince Charles and Prince William be called to testify?

Thank you for joining us. And for all of us at CNN, good night and we'll see you tomorrow.

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Military to Take Part in Search>