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CNN Crossfire

The Week in Politics

Aired June 08, 2001 - 19:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I intend to run for re-election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Jeb Bush is going to run for re-election, but can he beat this woman? The first daughters become cover girls, is it appropriate? And what do these two really think of each other? Tonight: the week in politics.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press. On the right, Tucker Carlson. In the CROSSFIRE: Alex Castellanos, Republican media consultant, and Kiki McLean, Democratic strategist.

PRESS: Good evening. Welcome to CROSSFIRE. Another week, another political rollercoaster, starting in Florida, where Jeb Bush today said he wants to keep his job for another four years. But Janet Reno just might be thinking, it is my turn!

And two other Bushes in the news, first daughters Jenna and Barbara make the cover of "People" magazine. But the White House isn't exactly thrilled. In fact, they are angry.

And so is Al Gore, according to this month's "Vanity Fair," so angry at Bill Clinton, he hardly spoke to him during the entire election, or since.

And over in the Senate, still shaking from the Jim Jeffords defection, some conservatives are calling for Trent Lott to step down, and Democrat Bob Torricelli, on the hot seat for alleged campaign fund-raising violations, says he is just the latest victim of unfair investigations. So much to debate, so little time -- Tucker.

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Thank you, Bill.

Kiki, let me just preface this with an apology. If I were a Democratic consultant, this is the one topic I would not want to have to talk about, so let's start with it. Robert...

KIKI MCLEAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Tucker, the beauty of my day is that I'm not afraid of you. Go ahead. CARLSON: Is that true? OK. Well, let me change your mind. Robert Torricelli, in deep trouble. Accepted apparently cash, Rolex watch, 10 custom suits, antiques, jewelry. Federal prosecutors are looking into it, doesn't look good for Bob Torricelli. I want you to listen to his explanation of the events, last night at a fund-raiser. Here is Senator Torricelli of New Jersey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. ROBERT TORRICELLI (D), NEW JERSEY: The truth of the matter is, I have been publicly raped. Causes a pain that I cannot describe. But it is a reality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Now, this is a guy who ought to be getting measured for an orange jump suit. Instead, he is talking about how federal prosecutors are raping him. You could hear how embarrassed people in the hall were last night. Aren't you? Are you going to defend this guy?

MCLEAN: Tucker, here's the thing. If I had been his press secretary or his speechwriter, that is -- those are not words that I would have recommended to him. He clearly feels strongly about it.

But I think what's more interesting is to see Republicans trying to hang their hopes and grasping back at power by underestimating Bob Torricelli. Those who have underestimated Torricelli have been sadly mistaken in the long term over the past few years, and I think that it's going to be a weak attempt on the part of Republicans to hang their hope on him.

ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN MEDIA CONSULTANT: If this is rape, it's the first self-inflicted sex crime that I have ever heard about. I mean, here is a man in a shiny suit with a gold Rolex watch who is complaining about how -- he is protesting his innocence, he is the victim in all of this. You know, he is going to have his hearing.

But I think the sad part about this is after eight years of Bill Clinton, almost no scandal shocks us now. This is -- is not really getting the attention it deserves.

CARLSON: Well, Kiki, the interesting thing here, as far as I'm concerned, is that Democrats have not pressed Senator Torricelli. He meets with the caucus, he proclaims his innocence, not one Democrat in the room, all his fellow senators, not one asked him to explain, well, gee, Bob, where did you get the Rolex? And did you take the 10 custom suits? Nobody pressed him to answer those questions.

MCLEAN: Well, I think -- I think -- I think some of the comments and remarks that he made last night actually reflect what public officials go through these days, that the trial is in the media, it's here on CROSSFIRE, that we are taking all the allegations as opposed to letting the FBI investigate -- investigation take its course.

He is the one who has asked for the special counsel, he is the one who has turned that into the kind of movement and a progress he thinks an investigation needs to take. But I would refer you back to the fact that there are Republicans all over town who are hoping, hoping of all hopes that this changes their numbers, and I think an underestimation of Bob Torricelli will disappoint them.

PRESS: Now, Alex, I want to apologize to you too, because I want to start with a topic that, as a Republican strategist, is the last thing that you want to talk about today, and that is Jeb Bush. I mean, Jeb Bush said that he wants to run for re-election today, and talk about great timing. He says he wants to run for re-election on the day that the "Miami Herald" comes out with a poll that shows he barely, barely is ahead of Janet Reno, after being in office for four years.

And on the same day, the U.S. Civil Rights Commission comes out with a report that basically blames him for the fact that thousands of black voters were disenfranchised during the last election. Wouldn't you have to admit that Jeb Bush is tainted meat, if not dead meat already?

CASTELLANOS: You know how many schools there were in Florida three years ago that were getting F's? There were 78. Last year, there were four. This year there is zero. Crimes is down 20 percent. People have gotten a tax cut.

And you know what Jeb is doing that I think is going to help him politically? Just good government, but he is bringing equal opportunity in education to Florida schools. The day is coming in Florida, a very innovative statement -- we have real reform here -- and he can talk substance on CROSSFIRE -- but you know what? In Florida -- Florida is heading -- Florida is becoming a state where poor kids...

PRESS: This is not substance, this is avoiding answering the question.

MCLEAN: Yeah. Here are the realities. When you sit down and you look at the election potential for Jeb Bush on a re-election, you look up and say: "Florida has made some strides and gains, a lot of it having to do with the same kind of strides and gains that the rest of this country has made under a terrific administration for the last two administrations."

Now, you've got a guy who can't break 50, Tucker. He cannot break 50, and you look up and you say: "37 percent of Floridians say that they would not want to vote for him again, based on what happened in the 2000 election, and he has got his big brother..."

CASTELLANOS: Thirty-seven, that's not exactly...

(CROSSTALK)

MCLEAN: No, listen, they've got -- he's got his big brother hanging around his neck, and in the end, Democrats have a plethora of terrific talent to run against him this year. CASTELLANOS: He is the most innovative governor in Florida history, and Democrats and Republican governors around the country are copying what Jeb Bush does. Good government is good politics. He is going to be fine in Florida. Suit up Janet Reno every day.

By the way, and remember the electoral problems you talked about? Who was, in the Justice Department, responsible for all of that? Janet Reno...

(CROSSTALK)

MCLEAN: Elections are run at the state level.

PRESS: No, no, no, pardon me, which gets me to my next point. I want to look at this report, which you just conveniently ignored. The report today claims that black voters in Florida were 10 times more likely to have their ballot rejected than white voters, and here is who it blames -- nobody at Justice.

Look at this, Alex. It says, number one, it was due to the governor's failure to appoint special officers to investigate, and secondly due to his secretary of State, and we all know who she was, disregard for her statutory obligations. This is going to hang around Jeb Bush's neck!

CASTELLANOS: What would you -- also hanging around him, for example, there were minority precincts in Duval county that voted over 100 percent, there are precincts where...

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: One at a time.

CASTELLANOS: ... Brown the congresswoman there sent out a little flier to all her voters: "Vote for Brown and Gore." Well, Brown also happened to be the Libertarian candidate for president. They voted for two candidates for president. They got disqualified. Now Jeb Bush gets blamed? Come on, you guys.

MCLEAN: At some point, Jeb Bush has to be willing to stand up and take responsibility that something went terribly wrong in the state of Florida, and that people who went to the polls to vote didn't have their vote counted, they didn't have the opportunity to vote, and the reality is that the people of Florida are the ones who know it, and they are the votes that are going to lose him this re-election attempt.

CASTELLANOS: This is like the Japanese guys who are still in the caves 40 years after World War II.

PRESS: Dream on, dream on.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... in 1970. OK, let's get to the piece -- no doubt you've read it -- the brilliant "Vanity Fair" story by Marjorie Williams in this month's issue that explains whatever happened to Clinton and Gore. Let me just give you a three-second recap of the past nine years. Gore gets chosen as VP, works as hard as he possibly can for Bill Clinton, supports him at the height of Monica, at the fury, stakes his whole political future on Bill Clinton. What does Bill Clinton do? Doesn't invite him to the movies at the White House, and in the end of course, destroys -- and in the end, of course, destroys Gore's political career.

I want you to read this quote. This is from apparently Bill Clinton talking about Al Gore. Gore is complaining that Clinton cost me the election, Clinton says: "Hillary was able to figure out how to deal with her relationship with me and win by 10 points. Gore should have been able to do that as well." If this is not the most appalling example of blaming the victim -- is it not?

MCLEAN: I know, because your journalistic ethics are at the top. You would want to make sure that people understood that Bill Clinton and Al Gore were not interviewed for this article, and this someone else saying what somebody said.

CARLSON: That is absolutely right.

MCLEAN: Moreover, I would hope you find this terribly boring. I'm far more interested in what occurred in the last eight years in terms of the accomplishments for this country. I think the rest of America is bored by speculation.

CARLSON: I'll tell you what's interesting...

MCLEAN: I think most people are bored by speculation about that relationship, other than what that real working partnership did for America.

CARLSON: Well, then let me put it this way, Kiki, the way people are treated is interesting. It's always interesting, and it's interesting the way the president treats people, and it's clear to me that this is the least grateful president who used his staff like...

MCLEAN: I think -- I think -- I think your function...

CASTELLANOS: I have to defend Bill Clinton. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, but...

MCLEAN: ... of trying to turn this into some political drama when it is not, when it's...

CARLSON: The drama is in the presidential election that Gore lost. His life is ruined, and where is Bill Clinton?

CASTELLANOS: Tucker, I disagree there.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLEAN: Last time I checked, we lost a court case in Florida that Jeb Bush is going to pay for. CASTELLANOS: I want to defend Bill Clinton here, that he is not getting a fair shake. If -- I'm sure if he knew, if he could find which was the real Al Gore, he would talk to him.

MCLEAN: Show a little emotion, Alex. Show a little emotion.

CASTELLANOS: ... if he could find out which one he was. And besides that, if Bill Clinton ever got an invitation to go to a college town full of college girls, I'm sure he'd go.

MCLEAN: Oh, Alex, you're -- you know...

PRESS: Low blow. Low blow.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: You know what? You know what? When Republicans, all they can talk about is Bill Clinton's sex life, it shows what a sick, sorry party you've got. But I want to move on. We're talking about magazines.

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: Sicker than the party -- sicker than the party who did it, Bill.

PRESS: Tucker's been reading the magazines. I've been reading magazines. In fact, take a look at "People" magazine.

MCLEAN: This a magazine of the people.

PRESS: The cover of the magazine. Now, I have to say that, first of all, that White House Press Secretary Ari Fleischer is telling reporters, warning reporters they better think twice before they write a story about Jenna and Barbara Bush. I do believe that first families have their right of privacy. But don't you think, No. 1, that Jenna and Barbara ought to think twice before they pass false -- try to pass false ID? And if they do, once, twice, three times, it's a news story and the media has to report it.

CASTELLANOS: Bill, they do have their right of privacy. "People" magazine shouldn't have put it on the cover. We shouldn't be talking about it here. So if you agree to have their right of privacy, next story. Let's move on.

PRESS: No, no. No, no, not so easy. But you know, they did -- don't you agree? I mean, they got in trouble...

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: Move on.

PRESS: Wait a minute.

CASTELLANOS: These are teenagers, Bill. I've got two. We've all got -- come on. PRESS: Yeah, and let me tell you something, I admit that I had beers underage when I was in college. But these -- they got in trouble with the law.

Alex, let me ask you this way, if this had happened to Chelsea Clinton, don't you know there would have been stories in "The Washington Times" and every conservative journal saying these are dysfunctional parents in the White House, no wonder Chelsea got in trouble? Admit it. Right?

CASTELLANOS: That's you said. Let's move on.

MCLEAN: Alex, there's another issue here, and there's a part of this I agree with you on, which is that they ought to have hell to pay with their mom and dad at home and not on the cover of "People." But the reality is this is a question for the media, and when they are going to deal with things evenly and fairly. And it's something that's not going to be decided by the people, that when we quit worrying about what unnamed sources say in "Vanity Fair," maybe we'll quit putting a bunch of teenagers on the cover of "People" magazine.

CARLSON: Wait -- wait a sec. Some 19-year-old girl orders a margarita, an uptight liberal dials 911. I mean, this is -- this is...

MCLEAN: Look it, Chuy's -- Chuy's -- I'm from Texas. Chuy's is a great restaurant. I've enjoyed a lot of Mexican dinners there with a couple of margaritas and beers myself. I didn't walk in with a fake ID after (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

It is an unfair reality that her father is president of the United States. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm saying it's an unfair reality. And hopefully, for the sake of these two girls, they will recognize that and find a way to operate in the life they're living.

CASTELLANOS: It's a transparent -- it was a fairly transparent guise of should we be talking about this. We keep talking about it. Look, if we mean what we say, let's move on.

PRESS: I didn't pass a false ID.

CARLSON: And we -- well, we'll get to that, too, when we return. And we will move on. Much more to talk about. A huge week in politics, and we'll get into the nooks and crannies when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Is it worth being a senator if your party's not in control of the Senate? That's a question some Republicans facing re-election are asking themselves. Others think the party might be improved if Trent Lott were to find a new job. It's a brave new world on Capitol Hill.

And he seemed to have everything, including a connection to Bill Clinton. Did the pardon scandal sink L.A. mayoral candidate Antonio Villaraigosa?

It's been a big week in politics. We're dissecting it with two of the best consultants in the business: Kiki McLean, who is a Democrat, and Alex Castellanos, who emphatically is not -- Bill.

PRESS: No, shocking.

MCLEAN: But we're happy to have him, because we actually invite people of other opinions and with a broader point of view into our party.

PRESS: All right. All right.

CARLSON: Come on.

PRESS: Alex, interesting times over in the United States Senate for both sides these days. One of the things that I find interesting is that after presiding over the decline of Republican senators from 54 a year ago to 49 today, that Trent Lott is still the Republican leader. Some Republicans are saying publicly maybe what others are saying privately. I refer to Bill Bennett, quoted in this morning's "New York Times," who says, quote, about Trent Lott: "He should consider maybe it's time for someone else to do this. We have a somewhat uncertain trumpet in the Senate."

Do you agree as just -- I'm sure you're not working for Trent Lott. So objectively, don't you think maybe time for somebody else to blow the trumpet?

CASTELLANOS: No, I think -- I think Trent Lott lost a lot fewer votes than, say, Tom Daschle lost on the tax votes, where he lost 12 Democratic votes to a bipartisan Bush tax cut.

So I think the interesting challenge now, though, yes, we've lost the majority and that's going to hurt, but the Senate has lurched to the left. The leadership of these Democratic committees now -- I added up the numbers 83 percent ADA liberal rating from the heads of these committee chairs. And includes Jeffords, who has a 55.

We have Ted Kennedy now in charge -- you know, the Hillary care guy in charge of health care, Pat Leahy in charge of Judiciary...

MCLEAN: Alex, do you what you don't have?

CASTELLANOS: ... who opposes the death penalty even for Timothy McVeigh...

MCLEAN: You don't have any leadership.

CASTELLANOS: We have a very left-of-center leadership, who has vacated the center...

MCLEAN: Alex...

(CROSSTALK) PRESS: Well, I know -- Kiki wants to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I just want to say I've heard a lot of spin on this show, but to say losing 12 Democrats is the same as losing power, Alex, is spin out of control.

MCLEAN: It's a new math. Alex has a new math going tonight.

The reality is, Alex, is what's going on in the Senate right now is that there's going to be leadership with Tom Daschle. And the Republicans' problem isn't just Trent Lott.

CASTELLANOS: The guy who couldn't hold 12 votes.

MCLEAN: It's also the leader in the White House. I mean, the two people who lost Jim Jeffords, all right, were Trent Lott and George Bush. This was the dynamic duo at work. And when Republicans start looking inward (UNINTELLIGIBLE) saying maybe we don't have the leadership we need, I would suggest to you that the two partners in crime did not serve their team well.

CARLSON: The only people who are responsible -- you know, if we can blame two people, it's Jim Jeffords' parents. I mean, this is deeper than just the White House...

(LAUGHTER)

... not inviting him to some event.

MCLEAN: I think -- I think that under...

CARLSON: But hold on, but...

MCLEAN: ... other Republican leadership Jim Jeffords had felt welcome and felt like he had a role, and there are other moderate Republicans in the Republican Party who believe that the tension was real. It was legitimate and it was a legitimate decision. Just ask Senator Chafee...

CARLSON: OK. Well, let's dissect another...

MCLEAN: ... and Senator McCain.

CARLSON: ... disaster here if we can.

Now, as you know, you're in politics, it's very hard to know why some candidates win, others lose. We had a case in Los Angeles recently with Antonio Villaraigosa, who I'm having...

MCLEAN: Villaraigosa.

CARLSON: Having this Dan Quayle moment here. And we know exactly why he lost. He did well in the primary. Then came this 30- second spot from Jim Hahn, and I want you to take a look at a couple of bites from that spot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, HAHN CAMPAIGN AD) NARRATOR: Fact: Villaraigosa wrote the White House pardon office for the drug dealer, claiming he was wrongly convicted.

Fact: In February, Villaraigosa denied he wrote the White House until "The L.A. Times" confronted him with the letter.

Los Angeles can't trust Antonio Villaraigosa.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: So Clinton reaches out from the grave and sinks this guy...

MCLEAN: Tucker...

CARLSON: ... who was going to be the first Hispanic mayor in 100 years...

MCLEAN: Tucker, I want to make a challenge to you -- I want to make a challenge to you.

CARLSON: All these endorsements.

MCLEAN: For one show, one whole show, you have to advocate on behalf of Republicans and conservatives, without invoking it in Bill Clinton.

CARLSON: Then Bill Clinton had better stop destroying the careers of promising Democrat.

(CROSSTALK)

MCLEAN: You have to demonstrate that you have enough on your own side to argue about. What you have were a lot of complicated politics going on in Los Angeles last week, with the mayor-elect Hahn, coming in with a strong background in record in the African-American community there, Villaraigosa has had a great career. This election was just one step in his career, he is not gone forever. Hahn had a great victory and so L.A. is all for the better of it.

CARLSON: But the Republican Mayor Riordan endorsed him. He was doing great until...

(CROSSTALK)

MCLEAN: Do you think maybe it was the Riordan endorsement that did him in? What do you think of that, Tucker? Think about that.

CASTELLANOS: It's a big loss not only for the Clinton style politics, which I hope is behind us, but also for the Hollywood elite who backed Villaraigosa...

MCLEAN: Oh, because it was for that Republican style attack ad.

CASTELLANOS: The Hollywood crowd is losing not only with the Lakers, they're losing Villaraigosa. You had black Democrats, South Central L.A. and San Fernando Valley Republicans uniting in a strange coalition out there.

PRESS: I would just like to point out that the loss in California is for the Republican party. What you guys are missing here is that both of these candidates were Democrats because the Republicans don't have a bench in California. All the statewide offices are save one are all Democrats and they couldn't get a candidate for mayor of L.A. So you know, guys...

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: It is mayor of the city of illusion. Republicans don't have much of a shot there.

MCLEAN: I don't think the millions of people who live there believe that.

PRESS: Speak of elections, "The Wall Street Journal," reports this morning, actually, that the Bush White House is really busy looking at 2002. President Bush himself on the phone, bringing people in. He's trying to recruit them mayor of St. Paul to run against Paul Wellstone. He's trying to recruit Dick Riordan to run against Gray Davis with the help of the White House political office.

I just want to ask you, for this White House that says we never look at polls, we don't do anything about politics, is this a proper role for the president and for the people who are on the taxpayer dollars to be doing?

CASTELLANOS: You mean to try to get people, good people, into government?

PRESS: To be playing partisan politics in the Oval Office. That is the question. Is that proper?

MCLEAN: I don't think Carl Rosen are (UNINTELLIGIBLE) international monetary policy.

CASTELLANOS: Politics is the way we govern our governors. And to get good people into government that are going to fight for better schools -- you know after eight years of doing nothing, wasting 8 years of prosperity, somebody has to get good people into government.

MCLEAN: Maybe if Carl Roe spent this much time and the president spent this much time worrying about the crisis in energy in California, the people in California might actually have a little bit more respect for them. Currently they don't.

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: Great team, great debate, but we're out of time. Alex Castellanos, thanks for coming in. Kiki Mclean, good to have you here, and we have to get you guys back again.

When we come back, Tucker Carlson and I will take a look at all of it, and we'll give you our spin-free closing comments, we promise.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: You know, Tucker, the guy I feel sorry for is Jeb Bush because everybody knows that George stole the election but they can't get him because he's in the White House so they're going to take it out on brother Jeb, who, by the way, helped his brother steal the election.

CARLSON: Yes and so Jeb will be crushed by Janet Reno. Can you imagine. You know who I feel sorry for, or almost feel sorry for: Senator Torricelli. You know you are in trouble when ask you ask for a special counsel. He is asking for one. If you can even imagine how deep in trouble do you have to be before you begged for a special counsel?

PRESS: You cannot say with a straight face that you feel sorry for this man, because you know you don't. Tucker, don't count...

CARLSON: I did, until he compared himself to a victim of sexual assault.

PRESS: Don't count your chickens before they hatch and don't count your convict before they're indicted.

CARLSON: Start measuring the jump suit.

PRESS: Oh, yeah. From left I'm Bill Press. Good night for CROSSFIRE. Have a good weekend.

CARLSON: And from the right I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again Monday, for another edition of CROSSFIRE.

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