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CNN Crossfire

Republican and Democratic Party Chairmen Debate the Issues

Aired July 31, 2001 - 19:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Will Mr. Smith go to Washington? How about Ms. Harris? And a week after calling him a disappointment, President Carter calls on President Bush.

Tonight: we talk about all of this and more with the chairmen of the Democratic and Republican parties.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, "CROSSFIRE." On the left, Bill Press. On the right, Tucker Carlson. In the CROSSFIRE: Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee and Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore, Republican national Committee chairman.

PRESS: Good evening. Welcome to CROSSFIRE. Good news and bad news for President Bush today. Good news: President Carter came calling. And despite Carter's stinging words last week about Bush, they didn't end up in a fist fight. Actually, they had a good meeting, talking election reform, including the idea of making election day a national holiday. But the bad news: a new poll showing most Americans give Bush an overall negative rating on his performance so far as president.

And speaking of elections, the first big test for Republicans and Democrats will come later this year: important races for governor in Virginia and New Jersey. And then, on to next year's congressional races, where two of the highest profile candidates may very well be Democrat William Kennedy Smith in Illinois and Republican Katherine Harris in Florida.

Boy, it's enough to keep the chairmen of the Republican and Democratic parties busy and battling. And they're at it again tonight -- Tucker.

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Mr. Chairman.

TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: Tucker.

CARLSON: I want to...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I want to replay Mr. McAuliffe, one of your greatest hits. We have a clip here of you in February, right in the middle of the sour grape-athon trying to explain what happened in this year's election. This is you, here you are. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, FEBRUARY 6)

MCAULIFFE: If Katherine Harris, Jeb Bush, Jim Baker and the Supreme Court hadn't tampered with the results, Al Gore would be president, George Bush would be back in Austin, and John Ashcroft would be home reading "Southern Partisan" magazine!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Now, this a terrific conspiracy.

MCAULIFFE: I looked a lot younger there.

CARLSON: ... I kept waiting for you to mention Roswell. You did. See, it's taking a toll saying things like this.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Turns out now, six months later, books have been written on this, "The New York Times" ran one of the longest stories it's ever run re-examining the Florida vote, and the bottom line in all of these accounts is: George W. Bush got more votes, no matter how you slice it -- take out the absentee ballots -- bottom line, he got more votes. Will you recant, repent, take back these words?

MCAULIFFE: No. I'm not taking back anything. There were a lot of issues in the last election, a lot of people were confused going to the ballot booth, we had 100,000 people overvoted down there. I continue to raise the issue, so that we can have some electoral reform in this country. When George Bush invites me down to the Rose Garden for the signing of true electoral reform in this country, then I'll stop talking about it.

But we need electoral reform. I was so happy to see the president today talking about electoral reform. It's only been eight months, but I'm glad to see it. But once again, let's just not have talk, let's have some action. Let's get electoral reform, let's pass the Dodd-Conyers bill, let's move on. Everyone who has the right to vote, let's make sure they can go in that ballot booth, the ballot will be read and will be counted.

CARLSON: When you say everyone, in the context of electoral reform, you must mean felons, because that is one of the target groups here. Jimmy Carter comes to town and says, "we need electoral reform, we need to let felons vote. A lot of Democrats are behind this, the idea that if more criminals vote, more Democrats will get elected. Are you in favor of this?

MCAULIFFE: Tucker, if everybody who voted in the last election, clearly the intent of the voter in Florida who intended to vote for Al Gore, there were many people who had problems, people required....

(CROSSTALK)

MCAULIFFE: ... well, every state has a different rule on it. What we do want to prevent is what Katherine Harris who hired the Texas firm who went into Florida to purge the voting rolls of all these so-called felons. In one county, only 10 percent of the people who were to be moved off the voting list were actually felons, where you had 90 percent of the people would have been thrown off because of a faulty list coming out of a firm out of Texas that Katherine Harris had hired in the last election.

Let's look forward, let's get electoral reform. That's all we're asking, simple democracy, greatest democracy in the world. Everybody should vote.

PRESS: Mr. Chairman, by hook or by crook, George Bush is president, mainly perhaps by crook, but not such good news today. I mean, of all these polls that are out there, we think that the Zogby Poll is probably the best of all of them and one that usually favors Republicans.

I was really surprised to see the latest Zogby Poll when they ask American people, "how would you rate George Bush's performance in office today?" Forty-seven percent only said positive, 51 percent said negative. Isn't that a pretty pathetic reading for the first six months, Mr. Chairman?

GOV. JIM GILMORE (R-VA), RNC CHAIRMAN: If you live and die day by day and hour-by-hour by these polls. But there are a couple of things I want to say. First, after eight months, Terry McAuliffe finally the other day with me conceded the election in Florida, so we are not going to let him flip-flop here on this show tonight.

And the second thing is, as recently as a conference call I did in California, you know, there was a couple of weeks ago that the poll was at 50, one poll was at 50. And I said, "relax, this is very consistent with the president's popularity generally across the country." He's going to be up again the next week. The next week, the Gallup Poll had him at 59. Now you got Zogby over here. They all got different kind of methodologies.

I would relax on this. The president is doing great. He is moving ahead on agenda. He is being successful in his approaches to things. The tax rebate checks are going out, and this president is really on top and is moving ahead.

PRESS: Well, you are flying in the face of the evidence. I mean, the guy got his tax cut, he's been to Europe twice, he's had a total free ride from the media -- in fact, most Democrats haven't even been taking him on, and the American people, it's like the more they see of him, Mr. Chairman, the less they like him.

(CROSSTALK)

GILMORE: Let me just say, the people that are in trouble are the Democratic Party. They are losing all the special elections. Their donors are sitting on their hands. Their own members are saying that people of faith are not welcome in their party. Hillary Clinton says you need to reinvent the Democratic Party. I can understand why Terry is sitting over here and worrying about these kinds of silly polls day in and day out. MCAULIFFE: You know, Jim I think he's once again is coming down here from outer space. We had the best six months we've ever had in a non-presidential year. We have won eight out of eight race mayor's races this year -- San Antonio, Texas, El Paso, Texas, Omaha, Nebraska, Jackson, Mississippi -- I mean, I'll go all over the country -- Jersey City, New Jersey.

We are doing great. We have the United States Senate back, Tucker, now in control of the Democrats.

CARLSON: The Senate? You got Omaha! I mean, you are halfway there!

MCAULIFFE: And mark my word, two big governorships, New Jersey and Virginia this year. Mark Warner is going to be the governor of Virginia, Jimmy McGreevey is going to be the governor of New Jersey, two big elections, Democrats -- look around this year, we're winning everything.

CARLSON: Let's talk about future elections, not just the past in Omaha and El Paso. Yesterday, we had the former President Clinton, took a quick break from his $100,000 speech giving to make this appearance...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: In any case, he shows up in New York bragging about himself. Now, most of us thought this is part of his pathological need for attention. Last night on the show -- true, last night on the show, Charlie Rangel, when asked about this said something that just gave us all chills, when he said, no, this may be campaign talk you hear. He could be running for something again. Now, you are one of his closest friends, what's he running for?

MCAULIFFE: Before -- I know Jim...

(CROSSTALK)

MCAULIFFE: ... because he beat him badly twice, and I know this gets him crazy, get him nervous. Bill Clinton will never again run for political office, I can assure you of that. He's going to go out and work on good deeds, he's working on a project in Africa for AIDS, he's trying to do a youth service program all over the world.

You know, he could go out and golf, or go over and do deals around the world. He wants to go out and do good deeds, and that's what he's going to do.

CARLSON: So, this is terrific...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... by telling me about Al Gore. Apparently, Al Gore ran for president fairly recently, that was the word anyway.

MCAULIFFE: And got 547,000 more votes in the popular election than George Bush did.

CARLSON: I'm glad you brought that up, Mr. McAuliffe, because victor though he was, at least in your telling, he has disappeared. He's under some rock somewhere, kind of pathetic behavior. Lots of huge issues today being debated, he's not in that debate. Why?

MCAULIFFE: You know, Tucker, I love you guys. If he were out saying things, you would be attacking him for being out. You know, listen...

CARLSON: But if he's the leader of your party, where is he?

MCAULIFFE: He ran a great race for president, he got a half-a- million more votes than George Bush, and that's a fact you are going to have to live with. We, as you know, have won the popular vote in the last three presidential elections. The Republicans have not netted a House seat since 1994, they haven't netted a Senate seat since 1996.

We're doing great. We're on a roll. Our party is on fire. Al Gore, over 30 years of public service, ran a great campaign for two years, he wanted to take a break. You can close your binder, governor, you don't have to open up the binder, I could have told you that without you having to look at your notes...

CARLSON: But you didn't, did you!

MCAULIFFE: And I'm just telling you, Al Gore, last year, great campaign, wanted to take some time off, and I think you'll see him pretty soon.

CARLSON: Missing person. All right.

PRESS: Governor Gilmore, I'm amused by this. I understand, somebody tells me, that there are tax rebate checks in the mail. I haven't gotten any letter yet, I haven't gotten any check -- maybe my Social Security number is too high. But what I find amusing is that the Republicans, you, you, sir, and your committee are just having a field day taking credit for this tax rebate check that's in the mail.

You sent out a letter to people saying here's what you can get for $600, including 40 packs of diapers, you even put out bumper stickers that say, quote, "thank me for your tax refund, I voted for Bush." Now, governor, we on this show and the people watching this show know that that $300 check was not George Bush's idea. It wasn't in his plan. He never proposed it. It came in fact from a Democrat, Dennis Kucinich and from an independent, the only Socialist in the Congress, Bernie Sanders.

Don't you think you ought to be putting out a few honest bumper stickers that say "thank you, Bernie Sanders, for my $300?"

GILMORE: Bill, we waited a long time, all eight years, for the Democrats to bring a tax cut to the working men and women in this country and the working men and women got nothing. The fact of the matter is this president, George Bush, came forward, ran on a tax pledge, delivered on a tax pledge, the checks are in fact going out to people.

And I must say something, I mean, some people might think that isn't a lot of money. But for working people, it is significant, it means something. It is meaningful in terms of being able to buy something for school clothes or maybe buy something to take care of their little children or to maybe buy something with respect to education or make a couple of car payments. This is meaningful and it matters. We waited a long time for this and it's good for people.

PRESS: The question still is whether it's good public policy. Bush sold the tax cut on the fact we had this huge surplus, we ought to give it back. "The New York Times" reports this morning that the U.S. Treasury has had to go out and borrow more money in order to send these checks out. This proves that it was phony math.

GILMORE: Nonsense! This is a cash flow....wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute!

MCAULIFFE: Fuzzy math again.

GILMORE: No, it isn't either. This is a cash flow issue, the same thing Bob Rubin did, the same thing Larry Summers did. If you don't like the way that they conducted the Treasury...

MCAULIFFE: Did they borrow money for these, yes or no?

GILMORE: It's exactly the same...

MCAULIFFE: Did they borrow the money?

GILMORE: Yes.

MCAULIFFE: Thank you.

GILMORE: And so did the Democrats...

MCAULIFFE: If you want to talk economic policy: 22 million new jobs under the Clinton-Gore administration, 700,000 people have lost their job this year under the Bush administration.

(CROSSTALK)

MCAULIFFE: The economy is in serious trouble.

GILMORE: I want to talk about this. I want to talk about where the education is, Bill. Instead of all this other stuff. The greasy stuff going on around here. We ought to be talking about education.

PRESS: Greasy stuff!

MCAULIFFE: A patients' bill of rights.

GILMORE: The tax cut is very significant, the patients' bill of rights is very significant. Education is very significant. I want to know something, where's the bill? Where is the education bill? It's being tied up and hung up by Senator Kennedy in a conference, the conference is going to be tomorrow. I think we have a right to expect that education to come out and get on the president's desk before the kids go back to school.

PRESS: You tell Senator Kennedy to do it, I'm sure he'll do it.

CARLSON: OK, we....

MCAULIFFE: First before we get off the education issue, I want to know first, how are we going to pay for it? There's no money left because of the fiscally responsible tax cut. Where is the money for the military the $18 million?

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... in just a moment.

Al Gore is still missing, but we'll be back in just a moment on CROSSFIRE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

They say that in politics, name recognition is half the battle. If that's true, then at least two potential candidates will be starting with a leg up: Katherine Harris and William Kennedy Smith. Both may be running for Congress next year. You know their names, but do they have a chance?

Tonight we ask the men who run the major political parties: Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Democratic National Committee, and his counterpart, sparring partner and political foe, Governor Jim Gilmore, chairman of the Republican National Committee -- Bill.

PRESS: Governor, we want to talk about those governor's races, but first I have to ask you about my favorite Republican candidate of yours, probably running in the 13th Congressional District of Florida. Ms. Katherine Harris of 2000 election fame.

Today there is an article in "The St. Petersburg Times" that says that the Florida legislature still controlled both houses by Republicans has named a special committee to investigate Ms. Harris' budget because she has spent so much money, not being secretary of state, but flying around the world, rolling up frequent flier miles and she budgeted $3.4 million this year for her international travel.

I mean, don't you think she's kind of off to a wrong start when the people in her own party are saying she's feathering her own nest.

GILMORE: The Republican Party is a very broad party, I must say. But as far as Katherine Harris -- as far as Katherine Harris goes, she's a wonderful public servant. She stood up to a lot of pressure in Florida, when people were trying to steal that election for the Democrats, she hung in there solid, and delivered things exactly the right way under the law. That was the right thing to do.

And she would be a wonderful public servant and a wonderful person to run for Florida office.

PRESS: Well, she certainly delivered the state of Florida the way Governor Bush told her to. But my question is, she's been a secretary of state now, who's in charge of the elections and the way elections are run in the state. You know, I worked for Jerry Brown, secretary of state of California.

She's been to, the last few months, Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Venezuela, Canada, Panama, Mexico and Barbados. Don't you think she would have been a hell of a lot better off if she stayed in Florida and worked on their voting machines, for example? Got rid of the butterfly ballots, for example?

GILMORE: You know, by the way, which a Democrat created, I might add. A Democrat created the butterfly ballot.

PRESS: She's in charge!

GILMORE: The fact of the matter is, she has done excellent job. She has adhered to the law, she has done so faithfully, and she would be a great public servant for that reason.

MCAULIFFE: I'm all for her running, I think it's great, as long as she doesn't count the votes.

CARLSON: She's going to run and win, she's a delightful person. She's an American.

(CROSSTALK)

MCAULIFFE: I think it's great. Let her run.

CARLSON: I want -- if we could just get a close-up on your face when I repeat the following three words here: William Kennedy Smith. Let me say it again, William Kennedy Smith.

Now defend this. If this isn't the sex crimes party, then why William Kennedy Smith -- I know he's been acquitted, but is this the image after Clinton and Condit that you want the party to project?

MCAULIFFE: Listen, anyone's entitled to run as a Democratic candidate for Congress. I believe there will be several candidates in the race. I think Rahm Emanuel is also thinking of running. Anybody who wants to run, step up to the plate, run in a primary. That is what a democracy is all about! Are you trying to deny people their right to run in elections?

CARLSON: That's a ringing endorsement. Let me ask you this, then. Someone else who has a right to run of course is Gary Condit. He may run again. If he does, will you raise money for him?

MCAULIFFE: That's up to the DCCC, not the DNC. That is not our responsibility. And the people in central California...

CARLSON: Wait a minute. In your position as chairman of the Democratic National Committee, would you recommend to other members of the Democratic Party that the party help him get re-elected?

MCAULIFFE: I think it's too early to make any decisions like that. To be honest with you, I think it's embarrassing to be talking about all these political issues, if this is a missing person's case. We ought to...

CARLSON: I'm talking about his re-election.

MCAULIFFE: It's too early to tell. I'm not going to do a hypothetical. I don't know if he's going to run again. Let him make the decision, I'm not going to make it for him.

PRESS: So, Mr. Chairman, in 1993, there are signs that the Democratic Party was in trouble because Rudy Giuliani was elected. Christie Whitman was elected in New Jersey, George Allan in Virginia, they all through Democrats out, took over those seats. There are some big tests coming up this year, and it looks to me like you are not in very good shape with either one of them.

Let's start with the guy that is taking your place in Virginia. Mark Warner, starting a huge media pot right now, is going to go from 1st of August all the way through the election. He says he will spend as much as he needs, he's ahead 7 points ahead of Mark Early. Governor, you are going to turn the keys of that statehouse over to a Democrat, aren't you?

GILMORE: No, I think this is going to be just fine. The problem that Mark Warner has got in Virginia is he's flip-flopping on the issues. He just -- The Democratic Party has traditionally been extremely anti-gun, rabid anti-gun, so now Mark Warner goes over and meets with the National Rifle Association.

You know, Mark Warner says that he wants to follow in my footsteps and get rid of the car tax when he's out among the people. But when he's in the back rooms and he's talking about things, he says, wink, wink, we are not going to get rid of this car tax.

So, you know, basically, he is going to have to be consistent and stop flip-flopping. Meanwhile, we are doing just fine in the polls. I'm very pleased with where we're positioned.

PRESS: Given up on Virginia?

MCAULIFFE: Mark Warner wins. Mark Warner wins big. He's a great Democratic candidate. Self-made multi millionaire. Went out and did it himself. It's a great success story in this country. Unfortunately, Virginia has a lot of problems today. The government is in a financial mess today. The governor can't even get a budget out of his own assembly up there, Republicans. He can't even get one out of there.

So it's because of these financial problems that Mark Warner is going to step up to the plate and Mark Warner actually got more votes in the rural counties when he ran against John Warner in the Senate race.

GILMORE: May I respond to that?

PRESS: Quickly, yes.

GILMORE: Democrats voted against the budget in Virginia, every single last one. And Mark Warner could have called them and said let's work with the governor and let's get a budget, and he did not do that.

And finally, Mark Early has a decisive advantage because he's been a solid experienced officeholder. Mark Warner's never been elected to office.

MCAULIFFE: They have the majority. They can't get it out of their own majority.

PRESS: Let's move on to New Jersey quickly, because You have a guy up there, Bret Schundler, running against Jim McGreevey. Bret Schundler, who wants to succeed somebody in between, a pro-choice Christie Whitman and yet he is anti-choice, won't even allow rape -- I mean, abortion in terms of rape or incest, he is pro carrying guns, concealed weapons, a guy that's much too conservative for New Jersey.

Another case where a Democrat steps in.

GILMORE: I think the people of New Jersey want somebody who is a decisive leader who gives them a program. What is Bret Schundler's program? He's running on broadening the party like, just like the president suggested.

He's talking about education first and quality of education, just like the president is doing. And he has an idea to get rid of the tolls on the Garden State expressway, which I think is going to make a big difference in this election. He's got a very definite program.

CARLSON: Now, Terry McAuliffe, just by my count, you have backed away from William Kennedy's nephew. You won't commit to supporting Gary Condit, the Democratic hero. Let me just throw out the name of one more...

MCAULIFFE: Wait, I haven't backed away -- in a primary I can't support anybody.

CARLSON: You can't...

MCAULIFFE: No, I can't.

CARLSON: I said if he runs again in the election.

MCAULIFFE: No, William Kennedy Smith -- I cannot be involved in a primary contest.

CARLSON: I understand. It's a terrific out and I hope he runs well, you can face up to it then. Senator Torricelli, another scandal magnet.

MCAULIFFE: Support Bob Torricelli, the Party's helped him. We will continue to help him, you bet. Bob Torricelli, been out there fighting for the folks in New Jersey...

CARLSON: Not embarrassed at all by the charges that he took all these watches and all these suits from the political donors?

MCAULIFFE: First of all, Tucker, as you know in this business there are always a lot of allegations. Let's wait until the end of the day to see what happens.

CARLSON: He hasn't denied a single one of those allegations.

MCAULIFFE: Let's see what happens at the end of the day. Jim McGreevey is going to win in New Jersey by 10+ points. They are going to bring fiscal management up to New Jersey. We had eight great years of growth across the country. All the governors across the country had record surpluses, they do good programs.

New Jersey -- record deficits over the last eight years. They are the only state like that. We need a change. We need new action involved, new financial people involved, new fiscal responsibility to help that state. And that's what we are fighting for, that's why McGreevey and Warner are going to be the two big winners.

PRESS: Real quick, Governor.

MCAULIFFE: And mayor of New York.

PRESS: And we thank you for coming in, Chairman and Governor Gilmore, Chairman McAuliffe, I have a feeling we are going to see you again.

MCAULIFFE: Love it.

GILMORE: Great to be here.

PRESS: All right, we hope so.

More political battles, Tucker Carlson and I will take care of them in our closing comments coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: OK, Bill.

PRESS: OK, Tucker.

CARLSON: Bill Clinton, Robert Torricelli, Gary Condit and now William Kennedy Smith. This is a party that is out of control, the Democratic Party. Someone needs to stage an intervention right away. I nominate former President Jimmy Carter. You guys need help.

PRESS: Terry McAuliffe is in charge and is doing a good job. Let me talk about the queen of the high fliers, Tucker, your girlfriend, Katherine Harris.

CARLSON: Exactly right.

PRESS: Here she is in Florida spending all these taxpayer dollars, running around the world, staying in luxury hotels.

CARLSON: That is literally -- her Job is to promote economic development in Florida.

PRESS: No, no. Her job is to oversee the election process in Florida which is the worst in the country. Let me tell you, if she runs, I'm going to go to Florida, I am going to reregister as a Republican, I'm going to vote against her in the primaries.

CARLSON: As a Republican?

PRESS: You mark my words.

CARLSON: If you can figure -- Bill, as a Democrat you have a proven record of not being able to punch the little chad through!

PRESS: Yes, but we're going to fix them. Jimmy Carter will do it. From the left, I'm Bill Press. Good night from CROSSFIRE.

CARLSON: From the right I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow night for another edition of CROSSFIRE.

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