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CNN Crossfire

What Does Gary Condit Need to Say to Save His Political Career?

Aired August 23, 2001 - 19:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Tonight, Gary Condit goes public. But is it too late? Can he say anything to save his political career?

ANNOUNCER: Live, from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press. On the right, Tucker Carlson. In the cross-fire, Republican strategist Alex Castellanos and Democratic strategist Tom King.

PRESS: Good evening and welcome to CROSSFIRE. What do you say after you say I'm sorry? That's Gary Condit's problem.

In a letter to constituents received early today, Condit did say I'm sorry, but he gave no details about his relationship with Chandra Levy nor about why it took so long for him to come clean with the police.

Answers to those questions supposedly will come later tonight, when Condit sits down with ABC's Connie Chung for his first television interview since Chandra Levy's disappearance, now 14 weeks ago.

That's just part of a media blitz that includes the cover of "People" magazine, coming out tomorrow, and an interview in next week's "Newsweek." But will it all prove to be too little, too late? Is there anything Condit can say now that will redeem him? Tucker?

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Tom King, good evening. Welcome to CROSSFIRE. It shouldn't surprise us, I guess, that Gary Condit is still having trouble telling the truth. It took him three interview with the police to fess-up and admit his affair with Chandra Levy. But now it turns out, according to Connie Chung, earlier this evening revealed that in her interview with Gary Condit he refused again to admit that he had an affair Chandra Levy.

Now, Democratic voters have a pretty high tolerance for sleazy behavior as you know, well know. But even Democratic voters at some point are going to say this is too much, don't you think? I mean, this -- it's over for Gary Condit, basically.

TOM KING, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No, I don't think so. I think you have to watch the interview before you make that decision. I think it's going to be more of a situation where he has to look at the audience, how he conducts himself in the interview. Is he real? I don't think -- Gary Condit is a small town guy, a small town Congressman. Not used to the spotlight. Not used to having -- being on TV. I'll bet you he's nervous, I'll bet you it's a very touch interview, no matter what.

And if he comes off as real and a human being, and he does, you know, body language is very meaningful in these kind of situations. It's not just what you say, it's how you say it. And I think he's -- I think everybody might be jumping gun...

CARLSON: Well, you Set a pretty low bar, but I'm afraid that even Gary Condit may not be able to get over it and I'll just have you know that even small town people can tell the truth and Gary Condit, by the account of the person who interviewed him, has not. He has refused to admit this affair, so what's real about that.

KING: I think before you jump to the conclusion that he does not -- he says he liked her a lot, he says a lot of things. But the fact of the matter is, in this situation, it's the way he comes off. Does he come off as a real human being? Does he come off as a person who is contrite, who doesn't -- and it's body language and it's also how he says different things.

Just reading a transcript, you don't get the full flavor a lot of times. So, the fact of the matter is, in this situation, he has an incredible -- he has an incredible situation to deal with right now, but I think wait and see before you jump.

PRESS: Alex Castellanos, first of all, let's be honest here. Nothing Gary Condit could say would satisfy Tucker Carlson. Nor would it satisfy this Greek chorus of professional Condit pontificators we've been listening to for the last four months. But, I want to ask you honestly, everybody knows he had an affair with Chandra Levy. Does he really have to go on television and talk about every detail of it? Do the people want to hear that?

ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's not so much whether he has to talk about every detail. It's whether he's an honest man or not and whether he's a strong enough man and honest enough to admit even what everyone knows.

You know, Americans are very forgiving people. We love a good redemption story and everybody gets a second chance, third and a fourth sometimes; it's a great country. But, you have to wash the stain out in public, it's the right of confession and renewal. From the letter today, he didn't do that. If Clinton had a problem with what the meaning of "is" is, Gary Condit doesn't know what the meaning of "when" is. He says he was forthright and cooperated. Well, yeah, but it took him 67 days, and he still hasn't told the whole truth in this.

So, if he -- yes. Redemption is possible here. He could come back. He got get elected president if recent history is any indication. But, but he's got to come clean in this interview tonight, and it's not just style, it's not just body language, it's substance. He's got to tell the truth.

PRESS: Tom wanted to jump in, I think.

KING: Yeah, you know, to be quite honest, everybody is jumping on Gary Condit. The police have said he was not involved in any way. You know, people who know him don't believe he was involved.

The fact of the matter is, if he goes on TV and is himself, he doesn't have to be the glibbest guy in the world. He just has to walk up and tell people why he did certain things. The fact of the matter is, if, you know, there's a reason why people don't want to get on television and bear their soul. I know you're a good Catholic sort, but...

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: I understand and, you know, I hate to agree with Tom, but he certainly acts more like a bumbling Congressman that a mastermind clever killer.

KING: I don't think the evidence is...

PRESS: I thought you were going to say he doesn't act like a clever media person, and he certainly doesn't act like that either, or the best public relations person. But I want to come back to this, how much he really has to tell Connie Chung tonight.

"The Modesto Bee," which as you know has called on him to resign, but did, did this morning reported on the varying opinions you get from constituents in the 18th congressional district about what they want to hear tonight.

I want to quote one of the women. Her name is Lucille Mahia (ph), who was quoted as saying that she's going to watch it, she said, but if he starts talking about his relationship with Chandra Levy, quote, she's "going to hit the mute button. That's between Carolyn (Condit's wife), that's between Carolyn and Gary and his family and I don't want to know anything about it."

Now, don't you think a lot of people feel that way? It's his private life. They know what happened, but they don't want to hear any talk about it.

CASTELLANOS: If that's his private life, that's fine. But what is not his private life is that for 67 days and three police interviews, he did not come clean on this thing, even to the authorities. And he hasn't in this letter he has mailed to everyone in his district. He says just the opposite. He says he has cooperated fully. He has to explain that. If he doesn't come clean on -- if he comes across as looking like he is more concerned about his political survival than her survival, it's -- there is no hope for him, and so far the indications today of this letter, that is incomplete, that is not the full truth, and in this interview in which he doesn't open up at all, then it doesn't seem he's getting there.

KING: How do you -- you know, how do you know he didn't open up?

PRESS: I agree, let's see.

CARLSON: I think, Tom King, you'll agree that Gary Condit is Bill Clinton. Kind of the discount store B-movie version of Bill Clinton, and I have... KING: I don't know about that.

CARLSON: As if we needed more, I have some proof for you. I want to read a line from the letter Condit sent to his constituents today. This is a quote: "You know me to be hardworking, committed to our issues, and dedicated to my community and family. I hope you'll also understand that I'm not perfect and I've made my share of mistakes."

So, here you have Gary Condit...

KING: I could have written that.

CARLSON: Maybe you did write it! Here you have Gary Condit writing a letter that is supposed to explain his involvement in the Levy matter. That's supposed to express contrition...

KING: That's what you say it is.

CARLSON: But here you have him bragging about himself, just like Clinton. Bragging! Calling attention to himself. It's a self- aggrandizing letter. It's nauseating.

KING: No, I don't think that. The letter might not say everything you want it to say, but I don't think it's a bragging letter. It is a very, very contrite letter. It starts off and immediate goes into the important person in this situation is Ms. Levy and the fact of the matter is, I think to just jump on that is a little bit dis-genuine.

CASTELLANOS: But for the Democrats, this is a real problem, because the Democrats thought Clinton had left town, but Clintonism didn't. The public face of the Democratic Party...

KING: Oh, excuse me...

CASTELLANOS: ... on television now seems to be not Tom Daschle, not Dick Gephardt, not Al Gore. It's the scandals continue and frankly, this is a problem not just for Democrats but for all of us. It's the lowest common denominator, soap opera. A lot of good news...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Well, let me give you exhibit B, then, just in case you're not fully convinced. And those are the pictures that we saw late this afternoon of Gary Condit with his wife and his two handsome children. This is part of his PR frenzy.

KING: And is he supposed to get rid of his children?

CARLSON: Dragging his -- no, but he's not supposed to parade them in front of cameras in order to make the point he's a family man. He's exploiting his family, including his children, for political gain, just as Clinton did.

It reminded me of that walking on the White House lawn with Chelsea. Will you pledge to tell your candidates not to do that next time they get caught up in sex scandals?

KING: I -- you know, to be quite honest, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. The fact of the matter is, you say he hasn't come out for all these days, then he comes out, and now you kick his brains in.

The fact of the matter is, that he's got a situation here which is a tough situation. He's caught in a bad situation and everybody knows it. Now he's coming out, he's going to tell his side of the story. The fact of the matter is that he can recover from this. Will he recover? I don't know, but he can recover by starting off with a good interview tonight.

PRESS: Alex, you're one of the best media persons around. I want to ask you that question. I mean...

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: I'll give you that, even though I don't agree with your stuff. But, look, one of the big questions is, is his wife still sticking by him? Is his wife still willing to support him? Are his kids still sticking by him? Don't you -- wouldn't you agree that people want to see the wife and the kids with the guy?

CASTELLANOS: I think people love to see it. Clearly, everybody's ratings are up covering this story, but since we're talking about exploitation, let's talk about who is exploiting who, here. The only people we know are guilty in this thing of anything, I think, is the news media, and that is of hyping a story beyond all hype. Whether -- who is guilty, who is guilty?

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: Be careful. What show are you on?

CASTELLANOS: Frankly, one solid news network, CNN, has been so much better than all the others, because I did a little news search this morning, Lexis-Nexis. Medicare reform, even on this network, was mentioned once for every 99 times Gary Condit was mentioned, and CNN was frankly the hardest news network of them all. I'm proud to say. However, is this what -- is this what -- you know, used to be that this was reality television. And now we sit here all day talking about hypothesis about Gary Condit.

PRESS: Well, let me come back to the letter, too. I want to quote from the letter, but you know, the point is, we've heard nothing but media whining for the last 14 weeks because Gary Condit won't talk to us. Come on! We're reporters, everybody is supposed to talk to us. And he hasn't talked to them and he's getting a lot of grief because of it.

In his letter, he speaks to that and, if I may quote it: "Despite my best attempts to help the police find Chandra, some in the media," you know, he might as well say everybody in the media, "have criticized me for remaining silent. I have not been silent with those in charge of finding Chandra. I have answered every single question asked by the police and the FBI."

Don't you think it's more important for the people in his district, that they know he's talked to the cops? They don't care if he's talked to the media or not. Yes?

CASTELLANOS: Well, is that true, though?

KING: Speechless.

CASTELLANOS: Because he's saying in that letter that he answered every question, but in fact for three interviews and 67 days he didn't admit he'd had an affair with this young girl, with an intern in his office. Now...

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: I say if the cops say he's not a suspect, the cops say he's cooperated -- I mean, obviously, the cops hear this and there is a difference, than the guy is really in serious trouble. But, I mean, my question is...

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: Bill, I agree with you...

PRESS: That's really what the people care about, right?

CASTELLANOS: If he tells the complete truth. But again, the evidence is...

KING: There's no evidence.

CASTELLANOS: ... in this letter today and perhaps in this interview tonight -- well, the only thing we do know, we don't know what happened to Chandra Levy and my guess is this fellow had nothing to do with it, which is why you keep wondering, why is there is all this hoopla about it.

KING: I agree with that.

CASTELLANOS: However, we do know that he didn't tell the truth for quite a while, and in this letter he says he did.

KING: No, the fact -- I think the facts don't suggest that he didn't tell the truth. The facts is -- are that the police asked him, didn't ask him the question about -- and I don't think a lot of people go and say I'm having this wild affair with this young woman. I don't think he said that. I think what they said was did you have anything to do with the disappearance, and he said no, and he answered it truthfully.

Did you know anything about where she might be, and he answered it truthfully. And he invited them into his home. They did a sweep of his home. They did a sweep of every place he had been. He was with Dick Cheney.

CASTELLANOS: But the standard is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, and he didn't meet that standard.

CARLSON: And we will get to the truth, deeper into he truth, when we return on CROSSFIRE and we'll talk about what Gary Condit means to the future of the Democratic party. But first, we on CROSSFIRE have located the one, the only man in Washington who won't be watching the Condit interview tonight. Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm not going to discuss Congressman Condit. Evidently he's making a statement to the nation tonight, and let's just see what he says.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Will you watch it?

BUSH: No. I'll read about it. Maybe on AP or Reuters, I'm not sure which one.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. The saga of Gary Condit enters its third and possibly final act. In a little more than two hours, Condit will take to the airwaves to clear the air, or try to. In a recent letter to his constituents, Condit insisted he had nothing to do with Chandra Levy's disappearance. Tonight, he will try to convince America.

Will it be enough to save his political career? And why would he want to save his political career? Humiliated and hounded by the press, Condit apparently wants to remain in office and in the public eye. Is politics that addictive? For answer we turn to two experts in the field of politician studies, GOP political consultant Alex Castellanos and Democratic strategist Tom King. Bill Press.

PRESS: Alex, in the end, this decision, of course, is going to be made by the voters of the great 18th congressional district of central California. We're not sure that, actually, at the end of his letter, Gary Condit says, like, for now. Which kind of leaves the door open, so we're not really sure whether or not he's going to run for reelection.

But, if he does, there's no doubt he's going to have the party's support. The chairman of the California Congressional Delegation, Sam Farr, Congressman Sam Farr from Monterey today put out a statement. Here's what he said, quote: "Representative Condit has said he plans to run, and he is a member of our delegation. If he follows through on his plans to run, then he will definitely run to win, and if he does win, then the delegation will support him," says Sam Farr.

Now, these Democrats aren't stupid. I mean, they know that every seat counts, particularly with a House that close. They wouldn't be saying that if they didn't have some surveys that showed that if he runs, he wins, would they? CASTELLANOS: He may be able to win. Listen, this election is a year away. It's a good Democratic seat and what's really hurting here, though, is to save the Condit seat they're going to have to, in the redistricting process out there, they're going to have to suck Democratic voters into Condit's districts, which is going to make the district next door more Republican and a safer seat. That's a seat Democrats might have picked up.

So, Condit may -- even if he wins, the Democrats will lose, I think, in California.

PRESS: But if you were running a campaign against him, wouldn't you say, I mean, this district is a very conservative district. It's an agricultural district. They care about water, they care about schools, they care about price supports. If the Republicans run a campaign based on Gary Condit's affair with Chandra Levy, wouldn't they be making a big mistake?

CASTELLANOS: Yes, they would. And I think the evidence for that is Bill Clinton. You know, at the end of the day, voters have this conceit. They think -- the voters think elections are about them. They don't think they're about Clinton or Condit, and if the man can make his case that he is an honest, trustworthy servant in this district who can get the job done, voters I'm sure will conclude he could be reelected.

I think he's going to have a problem convincing them that he's an honest, trustworthy servant.

CARLSON: Now, Tom King, he hasn't had trouble convincing other Democrats of this, though, and this is what is striking to me, Tom King. Now, if you were a judge, or if you were a teacher, and you got caught sleeping with an intern and lying about it, you'd be booted. But, of course, you remember, at Congress you don't, you can stay.

I'm struck by how Democrats have circled the wagon around Gary Condit. It leads me to believe that Democrats think he is the most qualified Democrat in Modesto, California. Do you think he is?

KING: I don't know if he's the most qualified, but I know that, get -- there is three reasons why he has a chance to win. And I think tonight will be an important first step.

First, he's had 30 years of experience serving the people of the district. You know, he's been a mayor, an assemblyman and a congressman, and people like him. He's done good work. He's a local congressman. He's not a national congressman, a local congressman. He delivers for the people.

The second reason is George Bush. The fact of the matter is that they've spent the surplus down. In eight months, they've done to the budget what it took eight years of Bill Clinton to bring up. Eight years. And the fact is...

(CROSSTALK) KING: Well, the second thing is, it's going to be a good Democratic year because of the Bush economy. And the lack of a good economy.

CARLSON: Well, if...

KING: Thirdly, thirdly, you have to look at redistricting. Alex mentioned it. What kind of seat does it end up and are there more Democrats in the same seat? Those are the kinds of things that you need to do. But, if it's good Democratic year, the issues favor it, and the fact of the matter is...

CARLSON: But why Gary Condit? Wait a second, you're saying that the environment will naturally favor Democrats. A lot of Democratic consultants are saying that and you may be right, but then why Gary Condit? I mean, in addition to the things you mentioned, he's also a liar with a weird sex life. So, why not get another Democrat and replace Gary Condit? Why this attachment to Gary Condit and people like Gary Condit? You need a 12-step program in your party. Get rid of these people!

KING: You're talking about our party? You've got to be kidding. The guys that have -- you had Livingston have to resign because he had an affair...

CARLSON: Oh, you guys...

KING: Excuse me. Newt Gingrich who happened to...

CARLSON: But they're gone and Gary Condit remains. Why?

KING: But the fact of the matter is that you're attacking Democrats for having weird sex lives. I think the Republic party ought to look under the sheets.

CASTELLANOS: There's one thing I have to correct Tom on, though. The economy is going to rebound, clearly. Democrats are going to hire enough lawyers, apparently, to propel another boom.

PRESS: We know the economy is going to bounce back because the tax cut was such a big success. But, I mean, Tucker talks about us as if the Democrats have a monopoly on sex. I mean, Tom is right. And let's look at the United States Congress. I mean, let's look at Dan Burton, he's still there. Let's look at Henry Hyde, he's still there.

On the Democratic side, let's look at Barney Frank, let's look at Teddy Kennedy. They are still there. The fact is, people do believe in redemption, don't they? Even for politicians.

CASTELLANOS: If you come forward and that is, I think, the real important question, which is, what is this man guilty of so far that commands all this public attention?

KING: Zero.

CASTELLANOS: And why -- zero. The only thing I think we know folks are guilty of, and that is the news media, of over-hyping this story to -- for ratings. They're the ones exploiting this story. Let's start the funeral channel.

PRESS: OK. We've got about a -- I think...

(CROSSTALK)

PRESS: Alex, Alex, I think we did a long time ago. All right, I want you to -- we have about a minute left, OK. I want you to put on your Republican hat, pretend that Condit is a Republican. You've been hired to help this guy. What would you tell him to do? What are the next couple of things he's got to do to bring himself back?

CASTELLANOS: I would have told him on day one, there is only -- if you didn't do it, get out there now, get out there fast, tell the truth and all of it, don't leave anything. And if you did do it, listen to your lawyers and don't talk to anyone. Which is why waiting this long to tell half the truth is a problem for Gary Condit tonight.

KING: I think before you say he's telling half the truth, I think you should watch and see what he says.

The second thing is, yes, tell the truth, be yourself, go out there and articulate why you -- why you are a congressman, why you believe that you should be a congressman. That's what he's got to do when he gets on the campaign trail.

PRESS: 10:00 tonight, we'll be there, we'll be watching. And you know what, tomorrow night we're going to talk about what he said and what he didn't say.

CARLSON: I can't wait!

KING: He's going to be on this show.

PRESS: We wish. Alex Castellanos, thanks very much for joining us. Tom King, good to have you here on CROSSFIRE.

All right, even before the interview, when we come back, Tucker Carlson and I will tell you what we think about it. How do you like that? Closing comments, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: You know what baffles me, Bill, is why Gary Condit wants to keep his job. I mean, he'll never stop being followed by the press. He's been humiliated and discredited. You'd think he'd want to go manage a Radio Shack somewhere, become a telemarketer, doing something a little more low key. But he's addicted, like a lot of these guys, he can't get off the stage.

PRESS: Well, politics is a fatal disease. I mean, people who have it want to die of it.

CARLSON: Yeah, an ugly disease. PRESS: But let me tell you something, you're absolutely wrong. You know, we can only talk -- we can only cover and think about one scandal at a time. The next scandal that comes along, people will forget. We will forget about Gary Condit. He knows that. Plus, he's been doing a good job and he wants to continue doing a good job.

CARLSON: Bill, Bill, this is like the -- look, this will be sentence one in his obit. It's not going to be Gary Condit, architect of the Central Valley Agricultural Bill. Of course not. It will be Gary Condit, you know...

PRESS: Yes, that's exactly what...

CARLSON: ... boyfriend of disappeared intern.

PRESS: That's exactly what you said about Bill Clinton...

CARLSON: And I was exactly right!

PRESS: You were so wrong...

CARLSON: I can picture the obit now. Bill Clinton, the scandal filled presidency.

PRESS: No, a footnote, Monica. Footnote.

CARLSON: Footnote? Please!

PRESS: From the left, I'm Bill Press. Good night for CROSSFIRE. Tomorrow night, how well did Gary Condit do?

CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again then, tomorrow night for another edition of CROSSFIRE.

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