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CNN Crossfire

America's New War: America Speaks Out

Aired September 25, 2001 - 18:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to our special town CROSSFIRE town meeting. American troops have been deployed to what become a war zone. They may soon find themselves in harms' way, but as America itself still at risk? Possibly from biological weapons? And are we prepared for the threat? We'll be back in a moment to talk about it, live from the George Washington University.

(NEWS BREAK)

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Good evening, everybody and welcome to our special CROSSFIRE town meeting at the George Washington University.

Tonight, America's war against terrorism has a new name, operation "Enduring Freedom," but the same old challenges: how to fight an enemy we can't even find, how to enlist friendly and unfriendly nations in the same cause, and how to protect against terrorism at home without trampling on the basic freedoms all of Americans love and enjoy -- Tucker.

CARLSON: Joining us tonight, Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who's a member of the Senate Foreign Relations committee and Senator John Edwards of North Carolina, a member of Intelligence Committee. And of course, as we'll be all week by about the best studio ever assembled in one room here at the George Washington University.

(APPLAUSE)

Senator Hagel, you said recently that the United States can "expect an attack, by biological or chemical agents." Let's say the United States was attacked by terrorists putting small pox into the air. Does the United States have enough small pox vaccine to respond to something like that?

SEN. CHARLES HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: No, we don't, Tucker. I think we must be prepared to deal with any and all terrorist possibilities. Terrorists strike where we are most vulnerable, where we least expect it. And certainly, the bioterrorist dynamic of this asymmetrical threat called terrorism is an area where we are very vulnerable.

We are all going to have to come together, state, federal, local, as we are and deal with this, prepare for this. But the only way I know to deal with any uncertainty and any great challenge like we are dealing with now is be prepared for it. And we must prepare for bioterrorism. PRESS: Senator Edwards, let me ask you "The New York Times" this morning said that 92 percent of American people support some military response to the terrorist attacks against this country. I'm one of 92 percent, at least to certain extent.

But if we are going to enlist all these nations around the world in a war against terrorism, wouldn't it be better to have the United Nations be the lead and the United States be the main force within the United Nations?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), NORTH CAROLINA: No, I think actually we're doing it exactly the right way, Bill, because what's necessary here, we have to take the lead. We're the country that came under attack. We're asking our allies, the countries we've worked with in the past, and to some extent people who have not been our allies in the past to join with us in this war on terrorism.

If I can just say one thing about what Chuck just said, because I think it's really, critically important. A response to potential biological attack, the first, the most important thing to do is to use our intelligence sources to make sure we know who has biological weapons, who might have access to it, and who intends to use them against us.

Second, we need technology, the most advanced technology possible, to be able to identify when they're moving around and coming into this country.

And third, Chuck made reference to this, we are not at this moment, although a lot of good steps have been taken, we're not yet adequately prepared. And there is sort of multiple things, I think that we need to do.

One is the first responders, you know the emergency personnel, we need to make sure they can identify, you know, exactly what's happening when they're on the ground. And they see some sort of disease or biological weapon that's been used against us.

Second, we need to make sure that we have a public health system that's prepared to deal with this, both in terms of treatment, and in terms of transferring this information around country.

And third, we've got to make sure that we have the antibiotics and the immunizations available to treat if it were to happen.

CARLSON: Yes, Senator Hagel, the coalition of the United States is assembling and attempting to assemble to fight terrorism, includes nations that are believed to be sponsors of terrorism, or at least have been.

Yemen, the Sudan. Apparently the United States would like to include Iran in such a coalition. We've heard today that North Korea is appalled by the terrorist attacks. I mean, at some point, does the coalition become a coalition for its own sake that it becomes so big that it becomes pointless, do you think? HAGEL: The coalition will, in fact, be a coalition for its own sake. Of course it is. Do we really believe that we can trust Iran? Or some of these other nations? Of course not. That isn't the point.

The point is nations, like individuals, will always respond in their own self interests.

Let's look at Iran for a moment. Three years ago, they almost went to war against Taliban. If you recall, their embassy staff was butchered in Northern Afghanistan by the Taliban. This is a self- interest business. The Russians, the Chinese all have a self-interest in not allowing this fundamental, radical Islamic terrorism to get started and to take root, because no nation, no people is safe.

So it's not a matter of a coalition because we're all going to go on a picnic together or we like each other, we trust each other. It's in a nation's self-interest.

PRESS: Senator Edwards, back to what you saying about this perhaps next wave of terrorism. And we have to have some intelligence to know what to expect and where it's going to come from.

I don't know how we can have any confidence in our future intelligence, when the past intelligence has been such an abysmal failure. This is the new issue of "The New Yorker," an article in here by Joe Klein, where he quotes a top Clinton security from the last administration about the problems they had with the FBI.

And here's the quote. "Their standard line (the FBI) was Osama Bin Laden was not a serious domestic security threat. They said that he had about 200 guys on the ground, and they had a beat on them."

I mean, it was a massive screw-up on the part of the FBI and the CIA. Wasn't it? And how do you trust them to get it right now?

EDWARDS: Well, I think it is clear, Bill, that very serious mistakes were made, very, very serious mistakes. And human lives have been lost, American lines, part of our family has been lost as a result.

And I think we have to treat that it way. And I think we're going to have to look back to see what mistakes were made, but I think most of our focus needs to be going forward. And I think at least a couple of things, probably we ought to be doing on the Intelligence Committee.

We need to be providing very stringent oversight to make sure that our intelligence gathering operation is doing what it needs to be done.

HAGEL: Yes, it may be necessary. I think we have to find out what happened, who made the mistakes, and who's responsible. But I just I can't emphasize enough, that I think right now, the important and important mission is to make sure that our intelligence operation has the tools it needs to have, has the legal authority it needs to do its job. And that in fact, in our oversight, our Congressional oversight responsibility, that we oversee and make sure that they're in fact doing the job they need to be doing for the American people.

CARLSON: I'm going to leave it in for a moment, senators. We're going it when we come back to the audience, who's got much rougher questions, I suspect, as you'll find out when we return on our special CROSSFIRE town meeting here at George Washington University in downtown Washington, D.C. We'll be right back.

(APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: It's a special CROSSFIRE town meeting at the George Washington University. Questions from the studio audience now for Senator Chuck Hagel and Senator John Edwards.

First question senators is from Sarah. Sarah's from upstate New York. Would you stand please, Sarah? Your question, please.

SARAH: Hi. I'm a Muslim American. My concern is with the reduction of American civil liberties, and I was just wondering if you think this war on terrorism is going to result in more racial and religious profiling on Muslim Americans, if not on an institutional level, then at least in a social context?

PRESS: Senator Hagel, do you want to tackle that?

HAGEL: I, like all Americans, certainly hope that is not the reaction. And I think generally, across this country the last two weeks, it's not been the reaction. We've seen certain incidents of it.

I think most of those communities have dealt with it very quickly. We cannot allow that to happen. As I have said, and I think Senator Edwards and others, this not a war against a religion, against a people, against any part of the world.

This is a war against terrorists. And our precious civil liberties and what we have always believed and stood for in this country, we must guard, because if we're for no other reason, the terrorists win when we don't guard against that.

So I have enough faith in our system and our laws and our country, especially our people, that we will not single out religions or people.

CARLSON: OK. We have question from Cindy from Kentucky.

CINDY: Good evening, senators. There's been a lot of division lately in the upper echelons of the Bush administration. Secretary Powell has been particularly cautious in his remarks. And I was just wondering if you all think this is going hamper any efforts to effectively prosecute the war on down the line?

CARLSON: Senator Edwards, do you want to give Democratic point of view or the Republican administration?

EDWARDS: Cindy, I think that we had a briefing this afternoon that Chuck and I both sat through, where both Secretary Rumsfeld and Secretary Powell were present.

And I think I can safely say that this moment, there's a very unified front. You know, there may be from our perspective, from the Democratic perspective, there may be some different philosophical differences between members of the administration, but I think what we're seeing happen within the administration is exactly what we're seeing happen among the leadership and among the members of the United States Congress.

Which is, in our case in the Congress, there are no Democrats and no Republicans in Washington today. We are Americans, period.

And I think exactly the same thing is happening within the administration. I don't think they are worried about philosophical differences. I don't think they're worried about any predispositions they had coming into this. It was clear to me today, watching Secretary Powell sit beside Secretary Rumsfeld that they're united and what they care about is making sure we need to do what's best for the country.

HAGEL: John just gave the Republican point of view.

CARLSON: We noticed that.

PRESS: Excellent job, by the way. We noticed this week there's not a Republican or Democratic point of view. Larry is from Takoma Park, Maryland. Larry?

LARRY: Yes, I'm very concerned about the airport security. Frankly going through the check-in points and the like, I'm not really inspired. A lot of the people seem not to care too much. I think lot of them earn the minimum wage.

I've traveled a little bit in western Europe. They seem to have a lot better system there. I think a lot of it's done by government. A bill has been introduced in the House of Representatives to make airport security a federal function under the FAA. And I was wondering if you supported that?

HAGEL: Well, I just quickly respond, are you on commerce committee?

EDWARDS: I am.

HAGEL: Well, he'll have every crack and dynamic of this because he's on the appropriate oversight committee. But I would just say that we will be producing, the senate, a security bill. We're working on it now in John's committee.

And with that, let me maybe just step back, and let John finish this, because it is the committee he serves on that has oversight over this, but we are working on it. We will have one. It'll be very good and very effective -- John.

EDWARDS: Yes, to Chuck.

PRESS: Senatorial courtesy.

EDWARDS: Chuck is right about this. This is something we know is critical. You know, one of the things that the Senate did, that the Congress did very quickly, was to pass legislation giving some money to the airline industry, to keep them in operation. But over the long haul, the most critical thing is to get people back on airplanes and to have people feel secure about getting back on airplanes. And I think there are two parts to this. First...

PRESS: Excuse me. Your microphone is falling. Can you please...OK, yes.

EDWARDS: The first part is making sure, looking back, that what we just saw happen never happens again. And I think there are several pieces of that.

Number one, trying to make sure the cockpit's secure, that we have a door that people can't penetrate to get to the cockpit.

Second having air marshals on planes so that people feel safer. There's somebody there to make them feel safer. Making sure that the people who work in airports, at the security checkpoints that you talked about, are adequately trained.

And I think a lot of us believe that function probably needs to be taken over by the federal government. So that we know, in fact, they're taking care of.

But I do have to say, there's another piece of this that's so critically important, which is we can't just look backwards. You know, we have to believe that these terrorists are creative, that they're thoughtful.

When we saw the unimaginable happen on September 11, we have to prepare for the unimaginable happening again. We talked about biological weapons and chemical weapons, but we have to conceive of every possibility. And we have to not just look back and deal with what just happened. We have to be forward looking. That's the only way we're going to ultimately protect the American people.

PRESS: All right, senators, hold your fire. This is CROSSFIRE, a special town meeting at George Washington University. Back with more questions about how America responds to terrorism. Be right back.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Welcome back to a special CROSSFIRE town meeting live from the George Washington in downtown Washington. Our studio audience posing a series of thoughtful questions to two prominent U.S. senators. Senators, this one comes from Erin from Newtown, Pennsylvania. ERIN: Good evening. I was wondering what the Congress should be doing or could be doing to improve democracy in other countries around the world, with the hope that that would decrease the threat of terrorism into the future?

CARLSON: Senator Hagel, what can we do?

HAGEL: Well, I think you have asked one of the most fundamental questions of all. It's fundamental because stability and security works off of liberty and opportunity and hope. And emerging democracies are critical for the stability of mankind.

We know that terrorists prey on areas of the world that are downtrodden, where they have no hope and they're breeding grounds for terrorists. So ultimately the answer is, and always will be, security, stability, freedom, democracy.

This country, for as long as it has been in existence over 200 years, has always focused on the continuation of democracy around the world. Imperfect, flawed, many of our options are not pretty. They're not good options many times. It's not a matter in foreign policy or helping nations try to get up on their feet and work through big difficulties of a clear, easy choice between all bad and all good.

Most of your options are somewhere in between, but you pick the options where you think you have most leverage to enhance the behavior to develop into democracies. But you have just asked the question that's probably as fundamental as any.

That is the way ultimately, you will stop terrorism. And we do an awful good job at it. And we do it better than I think any nation in the history of mankind. And I'm very proud of what we've done.

Can we do more? Yes, we will do more. But I don't think we should minimize what we have done in the past.

PRESS: Senator Edwards, question from Kathy who's from -- right here in Washington, D.C. Hi, Kathy.

KATHY: Hi. Senators, I'd like to know how you can justify a war on terrorism when we're the largest exporter of arms abroad and we train military personnel like Osama Bin Laden?

PRESS: Once trained, right?

KATHY: Once, yes.

EDWARDS: I couldn't hear what you said.

PRESS: I said once he was part of a group that the CIA was giving money to.

EDWARDS: Well, one of the problems, and you've heard members of the administration talk about this. You've heard the President talk about it in his speech, is part of the war on terrorism requires us sometimes to do business with what we would call the dark side.

You know, we don't have any choice. If we're going to infiltrate terrorist cells around the world, if we're going to get inside these organizations, find out what they're doing, so that we can prepare, stamp them out before they come and do what was just done to us on September 11, we are unfortunately required to deal with people who can infiltrate those organizations.

And oftentimes, those are people that we wouldn't be happy about dealing with. And it requires us to do things that we would otherwise not want to do. But they become necessary in order to do what -- to stop what happened on September 11. And I think that sort of the bottom line. When the President talks about us having to deal with the dark side, that's exactly what he's talking about.

CARLSON: Senators, you have a question from Shana from Florida.

SHANA: Earlier in the show, you had mentioned a lot of talk of countries joining coalitions for the sake of joining coalitions. Do you feel that this will be a war of the West against the rest?

EDWARDS: No, I don't. I think what it's going to do is put an appropriate focus on the scourge of our time, terrorism. It is a scourge that is borderless. It's a scourge that affects all peoples of the world.

I think this will give all of the world an opportunity to isolate on this great threat, this great challenge, that's very real. I think it enhances relationships, better understanding, more cooperation.

I think our relationship with Russia and China will be much enhanced with us working together on common denominator self-interest issues. So I suggest the opposite happening here. And we will do it in a thoughtful, wise way, as other countries will as well.

HAGEL: Can I just one?

EDWARDS: Sure.

HAGEL: In addition to that, I think it's important to recognize that this coalition that we talk about, will be -- it will change shape over time. You know. there will probably be countries that drop off. They'll be countries that are added. And the nature of the contribution of members of this coalition will be very different.

Some will help us quietly out of public view. Others will help us in a very open way. And there are differences in what each of these countries are able to do both militarily and politically within their nation.

And I think we have to recognize that the shape of this coalition, its contours, are very likely to change as we go forward. But that's OK. And Chuck said this, but he's exactly right. This also should be viewed as an opportunity. It's an opportunity to build relationships, with countries with which we would like to build relationships.

PRESS: OK, senators our special CROSSFIRE town meeting from the George Washington University will continue right after this.

(APPLAUSE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Our CROSSFIRE town meeting has come to an end for tonight. I'd like to thank our guests. Two of the reasons is in good hands. Senator Edwards, Senator Hagel, thank you both very much.

PRESS: And thanks to our studio audience. Thanks to all of you watching at home. We'll be back at the George Washington University tomorrow night for another special town meeting on how American responds to war.

Now let's go to "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" on CNN. Good night, everybody. Thanks for joining us.

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