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CNN Crossfire

President Bush Prepares to Address Nation

Aired January 29, 2002 - 19:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Speaker, the President of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Tonight, a special CROSSFIRE State of the Union preview. President Bush addresses Congress and the nation in just 90 minutes. Two congressional leaders tell us what they want to hear, and then two pollsters on what the American people want to hear.

ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press. On the right, Robert Novak. In the crossfire, Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel of New York and House Republican conference chairman J.C. Watts of Oklahoma. And later, Democratic pollster Celinda Lake and Republican pollster John McLaughlin.

NOVAK: Good evening. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

Just an hour and a half from now, George W. Bush delivers his first official State of the Union speech. The White House has let us know he is setting three goals. First, to win the war on terrorism; second, to strengthen protections of our homeland; and third, to revitalize our economy and create jobs.

And just to keep your interest up, President Bush will continue the practice started by Ronald Reagan, introducing celebrities in the balcony: visiting Afghan leader Hamid Karzai, Teamsters president James Hoffa, flight attendants who sniffed out the shoe bomber, other heroes, military, police and firefighters.

And, oh yes, he's back. Seated behind the president this time in his customary seat will be the vice president of the United States, Dick Cheney. He was absent for the president's speech of September 20th following the terrorist attacks, whisked away that night to an undisclosed location for security reasons. But he's back tonight.

Bill Press.

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Welcome back, Mr. Vice President.

Congressman J.C. Watts, let me start with you, congressman. It seems to me tonight the president has a real choice. He can either give normal State of the Union speech, even a good State of the Union speech, or he could make history.

I want to ask you about two ways he could make history, see if you agree. One is by saying to the American people these are tough times. We're in a recession. We've got to do everything we can to get out of that recession. And that means that I'm announcing tonight I will put everything on the table, including a delay in future tax cuts, if necessary, to revive this economy.

Good move? Do you support it? Will he do it?

REP. J.C. WATTS (R), OKLAHOMA: No Bill, I actually think that's a bad move. I think had we not had the tax relief package that we passed about eight or nine months ago, I hate to think, I shudder to think where we might be today had we not given the American people some of their money.

You know, this tax relief package that we passed is actually going to account for 2.7 percent of what the total package is about over the next 10 years. So I just don't see how 2.7 percent of the total package is having an impact on a recession. Or better said, how giving people some of their money back to buy their kids clothes and food, and help pay are for shelter and car insurance, how that's a bad thing. That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.

So I hope the president, I think he will, he'll touch on the economy. He'll touch on homeland security, as you said. He'll touch on a lot of things, but I surely hope that he'll talk about getting the economy going again. And the economy is about jobs.

PRESS: Well, some of us don't understand how more tax cuts for rich get the economy going again, but let me give you my second...

WATTS: Well, Bill, any....

PRESS: No, I want to move on to my second thought. OK?

WATTS: Bill, any time we have a tax relief package, you say it's for the rich. You think that anyone has a job, that they're rich.

PRESS: Congressman, here's a second idea. If the president will just say Enron, say the word, say it taught us a powerful lesson that campaign cash buys access to Republicans and Democrats. Therefore tonight, President Bush, I call for the House to pass the Shays/Meehan legislation. And I, George Bush, will sign it. Are you with him on that one?

WATTS: Well, Bill, I tell you what. We can have the debate on campaign finance. And we will because the discharge petition got the 218 votes last week. But you know, when you say Republicans and Democrats both received money from Enron, Enron got nothing in return for that. So I think the system actually worked.

NOVAK: Honorable Charles Rangel, you are justifiably known as one of shrewdest politicians in all America.

And I think you are. So Mr. Rangel, aren't you in an absolutely miserable position tonight? You want to bite at the president on his so-called tax cuts for the rich? And in fact, the American people are behind him. He is coming out with a stirring message for America. And you really have to button your lip tonight, Charlie, don't you?

REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: Well, I would hope that you can find in your heart somewhere to believe I'm one of American people, Bob. When that flag goes up and America is attacked, I cannot think of anything that unifies as country more with any family, any community that's struck by evil forces from outside it.

It doesn't mean that we just set aside all of our political differences, but it means in dealing with this war and dealing with this force, we stand united behind our president. And so no, it does seem to me that at the appropriate time, if the president does speak about the economy, he has to have a blueprint. He has to show how it's going to be done. And this is where we will be asking about some of the decisions that were made before how he intends to make certain that our Social Security system, our Medicare system, education, all of this is a part of national security.

NOVAK: I see some sniping ahead and some falling of the Bob Shrum/James Carville formula of attack Bush domestically, while support him international front. I'd like you to listen to what his spokesman at the White House had to say the other day.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARI FLEISCHER, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: One of the things I think the president would very much like to see is that same spirit of unity that has guided members of Congress in their approach to defense and foreign policy can now be applied on the domestic front.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Well, somebody's who's falling, that is your minority leader in the House, Dick Gephardt, who in his remarks prepared for response to the president tonight says he doesn't think that because we have supported each other on national defense, that we have to go toe-to-toe fighting on domestic policy. Do you agree or disagree with Gephardt on that?

RANGEL: It depends on how the president handles this. If can he take advantage of the moment where Americans are united, where Republicans and Democrats stand behind him, and realize that millions of people are without jobs, without unemployment compensation, without health, and without the assistance that they need for prescription drugs, and bring us together, and not attempt to have just the Republican way to do it, I'm confident that we can close ranks and try to do what's right for America, not only in terms of support of our war efforts, but in terms of establishing a bipartisan domestic policy. We haven't seen anything bipartisan, except support of the president in the war.

PRESS: Congressman J.C. Watts, the president is speaking about his domestic agenda tonight. The White House has already said that the budget the president's going to submit to the Congress will go by 9 percent this year. That means the program the president's laying out tonight means more domestic spending, more military spending, a bigger federal government, and the federal government once again spending in the red deficit spending. You know, I'm asking you seriously, congressman, is this a Republican budget or a Democratic budget?

WATTS: Well, Bill, you have to look at what we're spending on. Would you not spend money to give our -- America's sons and daughters the resources to go and fight the war? Would you not spend money on trying to make the domestic or American soil safer? Would you not spent more money trying to protect you our borders? Would you not spend more money in trying to stimulate the economy? What would you not spend money on?

I think president Bush has said, he said last February, he said that in a war or a recession or in a time of emergency, that he would be prepared to deficit spend. And I think the American people would say, hey, look, if we need $200, don't give them $100 and say, "Hey, you guys go and do the best you can with 50 percent of what you need." They want the resources spent to make sure we win this war and that we're safe on American soil.

RANGEL: J.C., you just can't wrap yourself up in the flag and just throw fiscal responsibility out of the window. Certainly, we're going to support the president. But he's got to give us a road map. He's got to show how much it's going to cost. And he's got to come to us and ask us to raise the debt ceiling.

Now raising debt ceiling is something that you Republicans normally get really out of control on. As a matter of fact, the last time you were you ready to impeach Secretary Rubin for asking the Congress to increase the debt ceiling.

And so, as long as you realize that the monies that we are supporting is, we're borrowing this money. And we're taking it from Social Security. We're taking it from Medicare. And we've given the pledge of allegiance to the flag, but America is entitled to a road map as to how do we get out of this recession. And what are the president's plans?

PRESS: Wouldn't you say, J.C., that this is a time. I mean, Democrats rallied behind the president on the war. They came toward the president on the war. Don't you think it's time for the president to come toward the Democrats to get an agreement on an economic stimulus package? Fair is fair, right?

WATTS: Well, and Bill, you're right. I wish the Democrats would work with us, but let's just take a look at what's actually happened. You know, James Carville, Bob Shrum said support the president in terms of the war, but obstruct what he does on domestic problems.

PRESS: No, they didn't say that.

WATTS: And well, hey, Bill, let me talk. Keep your mouth shut. Let me say my piece here. But what have we passed in the House? We passed a bipartisan energy plan that makes us less dependent on foreign oil, creates jobs. We passed not one, but two economic stimulus packages. It's over there in Senator Daschle's desk. The energy bill is over there on Senator Daschle's desk. The trade bill is sitting on Senator Daschle's desk. What more -- give us a hand to get this stuff out of the Senate.

RANGEL: They call a bipartisan -- they pick up a half a dozen Democratic votes...

NOVAK: Honorable Charles Rangel...

RANGEL: Yes, how are you doing, honorable Bob Novak?

NOVAK: Honorable Rangel, I want you -- I want to know whether you appreciate the difficulty that you're in right now?

RANGEL: I really don't, so you better tell me, because I'm scared to death that I'm missing something.

NOVAK: The ABC News/"Washington Post" poll asked Americans who do they trust to do a better job coping with the main problems facing the U.S. George W. Bush, 62 percent. Congressional Democrats, 32 percent.

I have never seen a poll like that in my 45 years in Washington. You're in trouble, aren't you?

RANGEL: Well, I think our country's in trouble. And we need a national leader. And we're rallying around the president. You know, never before in our history -- in the history of the United States have America been attacked on our own grounds. And so naturally, I would believe that the commander-in-chief will be receiving the support, not only of those people given to the polls, but of Democrats and Republicans here in the Congress.

NOVAK: They don't trust you though, Charlie.

RANGEL: Please remember that. The people that got killed in this, you know, we didn't lose Marines and sailors and Air Force people at ground zero. We lost ordinary citizens. It's these people have lost their jobs. Their survivors are not getting benefits. And so, they're not being taken in on the polls.

PRESS: All right, gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there. Sorry, congressman.

WATTS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the benefit package in the Senate. They didn't pass it.

PRESS: Sorry, congressman. Thank you very much for joining us.

RANGEL: Thank you.

PRESS: Again, Congressman J.C.Watts, Congressman Charles Rangel, we'll let you get into the session for tonight's speech. And now that we know what members of Congress are looking for tonight, how about you? When we come back, with the help of two political pollsters, we'll take the pulse of the American people.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: Would you believe 84 percent? What, with those astronomical approval numbers, President Bush faces a double challenge tonight. First, how to convince members of Congress to pass his legislative agenda. But more importantly, how to convince that much larger audience watching across the country that he's still the right man to lead, not only the war on terrorism, but the battle to revive the American economy.

So what does he have to say or do, to succeed? Or for once, are the expectations for George Bush too high? You know, it's hard for political pollsters to get any respect these days, but we have two of the most respected of them with us tonight, Republican pollster John McLaughlin joining us from New York and Democratic strategist Celinda Lake here in Washington.

Bob Novak.

NOVAK: Celinda Lake, I'm sure and tell me if I'm wrong, that you find the last thing the American people want tonight is to hear a lot of sniping at the president by Democrats, such as we got a little taste of from my good friend, Charlie Rangel. Wouldn't you advise your Democratic colleagues to lay off sniping at the president for now?

CELINDA LAKE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I don't think Democrats are sniping at the president. And what the voters want to hear are what are the two plans of the parties to get this economy going, to help families with rising healthcare costs and retirement security, to deal with absolute robbery, like the Enron scandal. And I think they're glad to hear the differences between the two parties. And I would suggest that we as Democrats lay out clearly what our differences are.

NOVAK: So you don't agree with Dick Gephardt when he says we shouldn't go toe to toe with the president?

LAKE: I think we should go toe to toe with the president on the economy and on domestic issues. I think voters appreciate that both parties united and passed terrorism and the war effort. But now it's time to talk about how we get our economy going and what is our war here at home, and economic security here at home, and voters appreciate the differences between the two parties.

NOVAK: So let me ask you one other thing. I have read some polls, which I just find preposterous, that the American people really enjoy long laundry lists. President Clinton listing 100 new items going on for an hour and ten minutes. Do you really think the American people want to sit down and hear the droning out of one legislative proposal after another? Particularly in these troubled times, wouldn't they rather be -- get a little inspiration from the president, rather than an accumulation of proposals?

LAKE: Well, no, actually. I think the public gets inspiration enough from the way this country has come together and supported the president and its elected officials. I think the public wants to know specifically how we're going get jobs going, how we're going to help families deal with economic security, and how we're going to deal with the pocketbook concerns that face real families out there. They'd like to hear specifics.

PRESS: John McLaughlin, I may be the skunk at the lawn party here tonight, but I want to ask you an honest question. You know, every state of the union, every White House goes into overdrive. So the Democrats in this case. And we've been getting so many faxes from the Democrats and Republicans about this speech. And of course, the media goes wall-to-wall overtime.

But I want to ask you honestly, in the long run, how main people are going to remember what the president says tonight, no matter what he says? How important it is really?

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN, REPUBLICAN POLLSTER: I think the most important thing is the results. And the Democrats have a serious challenge because the Republicans under this president have an opportunity that may be historic.

The last election was a dead even election nationally. The next election is a critical election for control of the Congress. And what's happening is the voters are giving the president overwhelming job approval.

Your polls say that four to five Americans approve of the job. Our poll, we have an NRCC poll that Tom Davis has released. The president has a 79 percent favorable rating, 17 unfavorable.

The Republicans are taking advantage of that opportunity by supporting his policies. And this president is going to have to extend some of the capital that he's got for success in foreign policy and leading this war to the domestic side agenda, in particular to the economy.

PRESS: Well, all right, well, I'm glad you get there, because if you look at these approval ratings, the president does have a great opportunity, but we've all seen advanced copies of what he's going to talk about. And he's going to get out there tonight. And he's going to say, "I want more tax cuts." He's going to say, "I want drilling in Anwar." He's going to say, "I want faith-based projects."

This is same old, same old, same old, John.

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, the thing is...

PRESS: Don't you think the American people are looking for a little more tonight?

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, the American people are looking for results. And Bush is talking their language. And Republicans are talking their language.

What they want is they want -- you know, everybody's talking about tax cuts. Well, what's wrong with this economy is since March of 2000, everybody's been getting statements that they're worth less, worth less. There's a trillion dollars taken out of the economy by the markets flattening. And Bill Clinton and the Democrats left this economy like an old girlfriend.

It was just -- it's been coming down since the election. On our Web site...

PRESS: A lot better under Clinton than it is under Bush.

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, let me tell you, they left it with us like this. And the voters are ahead of you. They knew at the beginning, because if you look at our Web site, MCLAUGHLIN.COM, we put out that the voters who had investments, voters who -- they have their savings today. It's not in CDs. It's not in passbook savings. It's not compounded interest. It's on Wall Street. Wall Street is Main Street.

Seven out of 10 investors -- voters had investments in the market. They voted for Bush. The ones who didn't, voted for Gore. If the markets go back up, people have more wealth. They have more money to spend. It creates jobs. Bush understands that. He's fighting for that. The Democrats are obstructing right now. And the voters read through that.

NOVAK: All right, Celinda Lake, the House Democrats had what they call a retreat last week. Actually, they just went across the street to the library of Congress. And I am told that the few, that's about 45 of them who are in districts in which they could be challenged by Republican opponents, they don't like the idea of, as Dick Gephardt says, of relitigating the tax issue.

They don't believe saying we want to suspend tax cuts. They don't think it's a good idea. Do you, from your polling data, do you think that that's really a good idea as a Democratic measure to get back, so you're vulnerable to being called tax increasers?

LAKE: Well, first of all, the Democrats are not talking about increasing taxes. What they're talking about is saying in these tough times, with these record deficits, and with Social Security on the line, we ought to pause and make sure that we can afford these tax cuts and make sure that they're doing what they say they're doing.

The Republicans in Congress passed a tax cut that would have given Enron $254 million refund. It would have refunded their taxes back to 1986. I think that's a tax cut that there aren't any real Americans who agree with.

NOVAK: Well, but don't you feel that there is a perception? I mean, why would -- that you're talking about tax increases. Why in the world would Dick Gephardt say that otherwise, that he doesn't want to relitigate the tax issue?

LAKE: Well, I think, the -- one of the reasons he said it, and I agree with him, is our disagreements with the Republicans and the debate economically is about more than tax cuts. It's about a real prescription drug plan, not one that only helps 20 percent of seniors, but that helps all the seniors...

MCLAUGHLIN: Is that like the prescription drug plan the Republicans passed?

LAKE: No, it's not like the one the Republicans passed.

MCLAUGHLIN: They did. Oh, but the Republicans passed one and the Senate won't take it up.

PRESS: John McLaughlin?

MCLAUGHLIN: Yes, sir.

PRESS: John McLaughlin, I hate to interrupt. We're almost out of time. Just a quick question.

With all those high approval ratings, don't you think the president risks blowing that approval rating by stonewalling on Enron and not releasing those White House records?

MCLAUGHLIN: You know, the Enron...

PRESS: Quick answer.

MCLAUGHLIN: No. The president's going to talk facts. He's going to talk about making people's lives better. The real fact in the economy is a lot of companies are suffering. Enron was a dishonest company and suffered because of it.

LAKE: Well, then they should release papers with Enron. This is like Watergate. Let the public know.

NOVAK: We'll have to leave it there. Celinda Lake...

LAKE: Thank you.

NOVAK: Thank you very much. Thank you, John McLaughlin.

Bill and I will be back with a few predictions. More like a guessing game about tonight's state of the union address by President George W. Bush.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Welcome back. A little more than an hour from now, George W. Bush addresses the nation. And Bill and I now offer some forecasts, fearless or feckless. First of all, the length of speech? Bill, I am really an optimist and I believe that since the speech the last time the president read it out was only 32 minutes. I think he is going to hold the speech to 45 minutes. Boy, that's short.

PRESS: No way, Bob. My prediction is the speech will last exactly 61 minutes and I won't trust you to time it. One of reasons that it's going to be so long is because he is going to be interrupted so many times by applause. Bob, in terms of interruptions, I predict the president will be interrupted tonight by applause 119 times, especially because those Republicans will be like cheerleaders.

NOVAK: Well, you know, I am just -- I just hate to see this thing that really developed under Clinton where you had the up, down, up, down. I think they are going to be a little more restrained. And this is really optimistic, only 40 minutes -- only 40 interruptions holding down the length of the speech, but that may be optimistic.

Next, who will be the cabinet member who isn't there. It's done by lottery. So this is strictly a guess. I'm suggesting Secretary of Commerce Evans.

PRESS: And I'm suggesting it's going to be Secretary of Treasury Paul O'Neill because they want to dump him anyway.

NOVAK: It's done by lottery.

PRESS: We'll take a break. When we come back, we are going to tell you about tomorrow night's exciting show with a battle of the titans right here on CROSSFIRE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: Once President Bush speaks tonight and House Minority Leader Dick Gephardt gives the Democrats' response, the battlelines are drawn for this year's fight for Congress. And it starts right here tomorrow night on CROSSFIRE with a faceoff between the two national party chairs, Republican Marc Racicot and Democrat Terry McAuliffe. Don't miss the battle of the titans tomorrow night right here on CROSSFIRE.

That's it for tonight. From the left, I'm Bill Press. Good night for CROSSFIRE.

NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again tomorrow night for another edition of CROSSFIRE. CNN's coverage of the State of the Union continues right now with Aaron Brown, Judy Woodruff and Jeff Greenfield.

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