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CNN Crossfire

Can Gary Condit Win Re-Election; Can Al Sharpton Win White House?

Aired February 26, 2002 - 19:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GARY CONDIT (D), CALIFORNIA: A nation is watching this district! You elect Gary Condit, you will rock this nation!

BILL PRESS, CO-HOST: Can Gary Condit win re-election? And...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REVEREND AL SHARPTON: I think the real question is whether some of those are that are the touted potential competitors, how they're going to reach beyond their base.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PRESS: Can Al Sharpton win the White House?

ANNOUNCER: Live from Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press. On the right, Robert Novak. In the crossfire, California Congressman Gary Condit's son and campaign manager Chad Condit. And later, in Des Moines, Iowa, Reverend Al Sharpton, president of the National Action Network.

PRESS: It's CROSSFIRE. Thanks for joining us.

It's not true that Gary Condit no longer has a friend in the world, as he runs for re-election in California, one week from today. He's got three of them: his wife Carolyn, who's campaigning alongside him, his daughter Cadee, who's raising money, and his son Chad, who's running his campaign.

But according to the polls, almost everybody else in what used to be called Condit country believes that Gary can't win and shouldn't even be running for re-election. Now defending his dad in the crossfire, campaign manager Chad Condit. Is it indeed a hopeless cause? Or will Gary Condit soon be known as the comeback kid from California? Sitting in on the right tonight, Jonah Goldberg back again.

Jonah, welcome.

JONAH GOLDBERG, CO-HOST: Thank you for having me, Bill. Mr. Condit, I've had a little experience of my own defending a parent, who was getting what I thought was a bum rap from the media and from the Washington crowd. So you have my sympathies, even if we disagree. But along those lines, I was wondering isn't it ultimately just a selfish thing for Gary Condit to be doing, to be putting his family through all this, and putting his party through all this just to be re-elected and vindicated in a way?

CHAD CONDIT, GARY CONDIT'S SON: No, I don't think it's selfish at all, Mr. Goldberg. I want to thank you and Mr. Press for having me on today. It's not selfish. It took a courageous person to stand up to the national media. And not many in politics today would do that. He has the full support of our entire family. And you know, I am more sure every single day that I see him out on the campaign trail, that he made the right decision.

PRESS: Chad, Bill Press here. I know from talking to some of the people in your campaign, and before the campaign started, actually, when the decision was being made that some of the staff members recommended that Gary not run for re-election. Clearly, you've made it clear you and your sister urged him strongly to run for re-election and he followed your advice. Why did you advise your father to put himself through this?

CONDIT: Well, that's actually incorrect. As I stated on "LARRY KING" back in August, my family vote was no. And it was up through December 7, to be honest with you, Mr. Press. I just didn't want to see my parents, Gary and Carolyn go through a brutal campaign, which I thought would be and certainly our opponents, in particular, Mr. Cardoza have run a brutal, mean campaign. And I said that for selfish reasons. I don't know, can't speak for his staff, but I was wrong and he should run.

And you, I know I don't know how long you've been in your business, but if somebody came along and tried to take your career away from you, after giving nearly 30 years to that particular career, I think that's a great injustice. So I am glad and I think you're going to be quite surprised on March 5 what the voters think.

GOLDBERG: Well, that brings to the crucial question here, whether or not this was a brave or selfish or right decision to make. The ultimate question is, can he win? And right now, it looks according to all the polls that he's losing like a French -- like a Canadian skater in front of a bunch of French judges. What exactly are his chances of winning?

CONDIT: Well, I think he has a strong base. And I think that certainly we have to deal with the negative press that has existed over the last several months. But you know, we've gotten thousands of letters and calls and support. And we've got, you know, 70 or 80 precinct captains. We're running a grassroots campaign.

And the one thing we have that the other candidates don't have, is we have a substantial record in service to the Central Valley. Our nearest opponent, Mr. Cardoza, just can't match up on actual public service, actual issues, whether it be veteran's issues or air quality issues or water issues, economic development issues. They just don't match up real well with Gary, so they're hoping the negative wave rides them to victory, but we have faith in the voters.

You know, Gary's been in 14 different elections throughout the years. He's won every one of them. And you know, he's always worked for the people, the voters. And instead of letting you guys or somebody else decide, he figured, he'll let the voters decide. And I am so proud of him for making that decision.

I don't -- it may have made Barbara Boxer uncomfortable or somebody else uncomfortable, but it's the right thing to do, because the voters in this district ought to decide. They ought to pick their Congressperson.

PRESS: Well, Chad, I hear a lot of denial in you tonight, same denial that I heard in your father last night when he appeared on "LARRY KING LIVE." I mean...

CONDIT: Denial about what?

PRESS: Well, I'm going to -- let me just mention what I'm talking about. I mean, Gary said last night that he's got a great record in Congress, and therefore, he said and I'm quoting, "there's no reason why I should not run."

Well, let me suggest there's one big reason why he should not run. And it's not whatever there was in a relationship with him -- between him and Chandra Levy. I agree with you that ought to be private. It's the way that Gary Condit handled the Chandra Levy matter. He's got nobody to blame for it, but himself. Doesn't that negate, unfortunately, all the good that he might have done in Congress?

CONDIT: Now you tell me -- who is this, Mr. Goldberg?

PRESS: This is Bill Press here, I'm sorry.

CONDIT: Mr. Press, are you telling me the press handled themselves responsibly when it came to Gary Condit, Chandra Levy? Are you telling me that?

PRESS: Chad, it doesn't...

CONDIT: You know, are you telling me that?

PRESS: No, no.

CONDIT: I got a foot high stack of tabloids at home.

PRESS: Let me tell you something.

CONDIT: They did 7,000 stories. Your network and Fox Network let people go on their shows and hold on and indicate that Gary had something to do with this. It's not right. It's not fair. If they would have done it to you, I would hope that your family and your friends would stand up for you. Public service is important to us. And it's important to Gary Condit.

PRESS: Yes, but let me tell you something. You know what? I mean, I'm as critical of the media as you are in any situation. I was critical of the media, the way we went wall to wall in this story, but you can't get away by blaming it on the media. That's too easy out. Gary Condit still, and I hear you, won't stand up and take responsibility. And that was the problem. And that's my question to you.

CONDIT: Take responsibility for what? For what?

PRESS: Take responsibility for his actions in the Chandra Levy thing.

CONDIT: What actions are you talking about Mr. Press?

PRESS: I'm talking about, number one, that he didn't talk to police right away.

CONDIT: That's not true. That is not true.

PRESS: He didn't talk to media right away.

CONDIT: That is not true.

PRESS: Number two, when he went on with Connie Chung, he still wouldn't apologize that he was doing anything wrong.

CONDIT: That is not true. You're off base Mr. Press. He talked to the police department 48 hours. You ought to stop reporting stuff that's not true. And the Connie Chung interview, so he gave a bad interview. Your buddies in the Democratic party gave him the same bad interviews, and I don't hear you jumping down their throat.

He talked to the police in 48 hours. Now I don't know how you would have handled it. And it's not fair to judge Gary Condit by the fact, you know, he's supposed to run a PR campaign with the backdrop being a missing person. It is just not fair. You have a double standard for Democrats, Mr. Press.

PRESS: No, I don't. Go ahead, Jonah.

GOLDBERG: Bill has lots of standards for Democrats. Regardless of what, you know, you raised the issue of whether it was fair or not fair, what your father's gone through, what your family's gone through. Regardless of whether it's fair or not, it's fact. And in Washington, it is a political fact that Gary Condit is radioactive. And despite whatever great record you claim he has in the last 30 years...

CONDIT: Claim? It's the truth.

GOLDBERG: Oh, either way. Fine. Let's stipulate that it's the truth. How effective can he possibly be when probably very few congressmen want to co-sponsor any legislation with him or have their picture taken with him? CONDIT: Well, you tell me how effective Barney Frank is. You tell me how the Kennedys are effective. You tell me -- a member of Congress goes through great adversity. They win. The voters send them back. They become triple as effective as they've ever been. And you want to talk about effectiveness? Dennis Cardoza, who I'm sure Mr. Press is supporting, will be the most ineffective legislator.

PRESS: I'm not supporting anybody in that race.

CONDIT: Well, he would be...

PRESS: I'm not supporting anybody in that race. So don't give me that nonsense.

CONDIT: Yes, sir. You wait to see how ineffective he is. Everybody knows what he is. He'll back stab his friends. He back stabbed his friends in this manner. Do you think anybody on the Hill's going trust him and his word of what he says? When Gary Condit gets back to Congress, he's going to be the most effective congressman in America. You mark that down.

PRESS: We have time for one last question. You mentioned back stabbing. I want to ask you about that. You and your sister both used to work for Gray Davis. I knew your dad was out there when Gray Davis -- nobody gave him a prayer of winning the primary for governor. Your father was with him on almost every stop in the Central Valley.

And yet when your dad gets in trouble, Gary, Gray Davis takes a walk. Do you feel betrayed? Do you feel Gray Davis stabbed you in the back and your father in the back?

CONDIT: No. I don't feel betrayed. He made a political decision. But let me get back to, you know, making some kind of moral judgment, which our opponent Dennis Cardoza is trying to make on us. This is individual who owned a strip bar, gentlemen, five years ago. And he is making moral judgment on my father, on our candidate?

I think it's ridiculous. And I think the press ought to shine the whole picture on the thing. And I don't feel betrayed by Gray Davis. He made a political decision. And it seems to me he's got his own race he needs to worry about.

PRESS: All right, Chad Condit, thank you so much for joining us. Out of time now. We will see, in fact, what the voters say next March 5, and if they agree with you.

CONDIT: I want to tell you that I'm a huge fan of your show. And I appreciate coming on.

PRESS: Thanks so much, Chad. Thanks so much for coming here. And now, we're going to move from the Congress to the White House. When we come back, live from Iowa, where's he's testing the waters, tasting the corn, and getting a crash education in sow-belly futures, presidential candidate Al Sharpton. Does he have a prayer?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) GOLDBERG: And welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Sitting in on the right, I'm Jonah Goldberg. Now I'd like to welcome Al Sharpton, live from Iowa, where he's tilling the soil for a presidential campaign. Reverend Sharpton, welcome.

SHARPTON: Thank you.

PRESS: Reverend Sharpton, good evening. Bill Press here.

Let me ask you first of all, the recent profile in "The New Yorker" magazine by Elizabeth Culprit pointed out that you could be elected to any -- not any seat, but there are several seats in Congress and New York, where if you ran for Congress, you could get elected automatically. But you seem to pick these impossible goals. You run for mayor, you didn't win. You run for senator, you didn't win. Now you're running for president. Reverend Sharpton, why do you keep running for offices you know you can't win?

SHARPTON: Well, first of all, it's very presumptuous to say what anyone can or cannot do. I think that if I listened to that, I would not have gotten the votes that I got. Secondly, I think that we have to stop this racetrack politics in America, where we vote based on who we think's going to win, rather than based on what we believe represents the policies and the interests that the voter has.

If you want to vote on winners, you should go the racetrack and pick a horse. If you want to vote for a candidate, you ought to vote for the candidate that speaks to your issues, speaks to the policies you'd like to see enacted. And if enough people began doing that again you, would have a lot of people that are credible and that are good that would win.

I, if I choose to run, will put together one or both strategy, but I think people ought to vote, not based on just who they think will win, but who really speaks to what they would like to see done in this country.

GOLDBERG: Reverend Sharpton, on that note, you often talk about wanting to run a broadbased coalition, bringing lots people into the party and into your movement. If that's the case, won't it be a little difficult for you, considering some of the record you have as a divider, rather than a uniter, from denouncing white interlopers in Harlem, to calling your opponents, your Democratic opponents in 1992 senatorial campaign, recycled white trash? Aren't those the sorts of things that usually uniters don't say.

SHARPTON: Well, first of all, Mr. Goldberg, first of all, Mr. Goldberg, the data contradicts everything you say. I ran in '92 and 27 percent of the people that voted for me were white. I ran for mayor after the statement about interloper in Harlem, and over 30 percent of our vote was white.

So I've already proven to have a much broader base than you're talking about many years ago. I'm in Iowa today. And many people that came were of different races, white, black and Latino. I think the real challenge, if I choose to run, is whether the Democratic opponents that are being touted can have as diverse and inclusive type of campaign. And I've already been able to demonstrate that I can do it.

PRESS: Well, I want to ask you a strategic question, Reverend Sharpton. You were on "INSIDE POLITICS" here on CNN last week, I believe it was. And you complained about the fact that -- and said one of the reasons you're running is you feel that the Democratic party, over the last few years, has drifted too far to the right.

Now I'm a liberal and I'm proud of it. And I think you're a liberal, too. But do you really think the way Democrats can win national elections is to go as far to the left as you are and as I am?

SHARPTON: Well, I think first of all, I think that Democrats can go much more to the center on many issues, particularly issues that I think now have come back to haunt us. Welfare reform for one. We are now where a lot of people have run out of time. There is no jobs for them. Unemployment going up in a recession.

I think that many things, when we look at the report that just came out from Columbia University about how the death penalty, not only on moral grounds but on the fact we've had over two-thirds of the cases that were reviewed turned -- not reaffirmed by the appellate courts, based on the lack of the proper evidence and proper trial. And we touted death penalty. There are many things that I think shows that the party went far to the right.

But again, you calculate everything based on winning, like we're in Las Vegas shooting craps, rather than trying to run a nation.

PRESS: Well, but isn't that what elections...

SHARPTON: That should be dealing with the realities of what people want.

PRESS: I'm sorry, but aren't elections about winning? Aren't you in there to win? Or are you in there to make a statement.

SHARPTON: No, elections ought to be what you stand for. And you ought to win based on what you stand for, not win based on what kind of strategy you can come and try to polish yourself or project yourself to people which may not even really be what you believe.

GOLDBERG: OK, well, Mr. Sharpton, you claim and you resent when people say that you're not a very serious candidate for a very serious position. As recently as last year, you were claiming that you are didn't even own any of your suits, that you didn't have a credit card.

SHARPTON: That's a lie. Where did I make that claim, sir?

GOLDBERG: Well, it was in "The New York Times."

SHARPTON: That's not true.

GOLDBERG: OK, well in that case...

SHARPTON: Not true. How could I not own my suits? I mean again, I think...

GOLDBERG: That's a question a lot of us would like to know.

SHARPTON: I think you would do yourself and a lot of people service, if you did better research. What you're referring to -- never said that. Never said it.

GOLDBERG: Well, there's one way to really clear this up, which is the way that all serious presidential candidates clear these sorts of issues up. Will you, as a serious presidential candidate, release your tax returns?

SHARPTON: Yes, I will. And every time I have run for office, I've released my tax returns. I mean, why don't you pitch me another softball. That's easy. Every time, in fact, you couldn't run without filling in financial disclosures and other things. I mean, please don't ask me something like that.

GOLDBERG: Here's another softball then. Do you own that suit you're wearing now?

SHARPTON: I own all the suits I wear -- all...

GOLDBERG: Excellent.

SHARPTON: Some of them have been gifts. And I think that, clearly, I think to try and cheapen a dialogue. We're here in Iowa, where last night, the legislation passed an English-only bill. That has outraged a lot of people here. To try and avoid those issues with little things that you know are silly, at best, I think is why people want to see serious politics come back in.

I don't think that these kinds of things will help to bring this nation where it needs to be. We are going to have, in 2004, the first election since the 2000 debacle in Florida, where the peoples' votes were disenfranchised. Let's not talk about things that don't matter.

PRESS: OK, Reverend Sharpton, I want you know, it's a good looking suit. OK? I want you to know that. OK? I'm glad you own it.

SHARPTON: That's why I bought it.

PRESS: All right, I want to ask, you're out there, OK. And you're talking about your message. I mean, you're a black minister from New York city. And most the people you're going to be talking to are hog farmers in Iowa.

I mean, seriously, what do you and hog farmers in Iowa have in common, if anything?

SHARPTON: A lot. We both are facing governments now, that -- or people in government that seem to be insensitive to regular people that want to work and earn and take care of their families. Many of them are facing foreclosures. I would say, if I make this race more than anyone in this race, I fought for people that have had to deal with the fact that because of the shift in the economy, they find themselves working hard, but unable to sustain their families, unable to educate their children. I have a lot in common with them.

All right, Reverend Sharpton, I want you to bear with us, because you're the first presidential candidate this year we've had on our show from Iowa. And so, you're going to have to be the first one who's going to be asked to take our special CROSSFIRE Iowa quiz. I want you to know, we're not picking on you. We're going to ask every candidate from Iowa we can get on the show, but you're up number on. So -- and by the way, we might not have known the name or the answers to these earlier until we did our research.

The first question for you, know, Delaware is called the Diamond state. What is the nickname for the state of Iowa? Do you know?

SHARPTON: No, I don't. It's probably Coal State.

PRESS: It's the Hawkeye state, Reverend Sharpton. We're helping you out there. You're going to know that tomorrow.

GOLDBERG: OK, well Mr. Sharpton, the second question I have for you is do you know the name of the University of Iowa football team?

SHARPTON: No.

GOLDBERG: That's called the Hawkeyes, funnily enough.

PRESS: Also called the Hawkeyes. All right, this is the softball, Reverend Sharpton. There's a former president of the United States who used to be a sports announcer on radio in Des Moines, Iowa. Do you know the former president of the United States.

SHARPTON: Would that have been -- no, it wouldn't have been Harry Truman.

PRESS: Is that your final answer?

SHARPTON: Yes.

PRESS: No, it was Ronald Reagan. Reagan...

SHARPTON: I'm not a Reaganite. But I ask you a trivial question?

PRESS: No, because you know why? Save that question. We'll have you back on the show. We are out of time. Reverend, Sharpton.

SHARPTON: I just want to know if Mr. Goldberg owns that suit.

PRESS: I hope he does.

GOLDBERG: I do, indeed.

PRESS: All right, thank you, Reverend Sharpton for joining us from Iowa and for being a good sport. Now one final treat tonight, what do Cher and bear breasts and John Ashcroft have in common? Find out when Jonah and I bring you our special CROSSFIRE news alert. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PRESS: OK. We know it's tough. There's so much news every day, you just can't keep up with everything. And that's why we've instituted our CROSSFIRE news alert, to bring you at least once a week those stories you may have missed, but can't live without.

Jonah's up first.

GOLDBERG: First up, "The Wall Street Journal" reports today that Georgetown University is offering a new course on "political terrorism." But fear not, the description in the course catalog promises students that "this course is not about passing moral judgments on terrorism and terrorists. Its first objective is to understand terrorism as an alternative political action. Heaven forbid a Jesuit university pass moral judgment on mass murderers.

PRESS: And it wasn't all fun and games for Dick Cheney after Salt Lake City. Two of his Secret Service agents went shopping for souvenirs and left behind the top secret log containing every detail of his visit. Oops.

Now get this. As a reward for finding the log and returning it, the store owner asked for an autographed picture of the vice president, but was turned down. What a bunch of White House meanies.

GOLDBERG: The First Lady, Laura Bush, has been invited to UCLA's Graduate School of Education and Information Studies. And some campus hot heads are up in arms. The students believe the one time teacher, librarian, and long time activist on education issues has "shallow credentials" and that she is "no merit in her field."

Former UCLA commencement speakers include noted scholars Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Rob Reiner and Annette Benning. But to be fair, Benning played the girlfriend of a president in the movie made by Rob Reiner.

PRESS: And now the big question, what do Cher, bare breasts and John Ashcroft have in common? This. Cher is steamed at Ashcroft's ordering a curtain to cover up the bare-breasted statue, "Spirit of Justice" at the Justice Department. Ashcroft says the statue's a visual distraction during his news conferences. Cher says if he's so distracted by bare breasts, why doesn't he hold his news conferences somewhere else?

To get to the bottom of this, we have invited Cher and John Ashcroft on CROSSFIRE to settle this debate right here. Jonah, I can't wait for that one.

GOLDBERG: Bill...

PRESS: Isn't that stupid? GOLDBERG: Well, it's stupid because it's a distraction, not for John Ashcroft, but for the press corps, which constantly goes for the booby shot, right over John Ashcroft's head.

PRESS: Well, then hold his news conferences somewhere else. All right. Special programming note, Connie Chung is going to report tonight from Karachi about what Daniel Pearl was forced to say by his kidnappers on that videotape. That's appearing on "NEWSNIGHT" tonight with Aaron Brown at 10:00 Eastern.

For tonight, from the left, I'm Bill Press. Thanks for joining us on CROSSFIRE.

GOLDBERG: And from the right, I'm Jonah Goldberg. Join us again tomorrow night for another edition of CROSSFIRE.

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