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CNN Crossfire

Are Skies Safer After September 11?

Aired March 26, 2002 - 19:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Tonight, a new report points out major holes in airport security. Are the friendly skies any safer after September 11th?

Then, one New Jersey town is taking a night off from homework and sports. Is there really a need to schedule free time?

ANNOUNCER: From Washington, CROSSFIRE. On the left, Bill Press, on the right, Robert Novak. In the crossfire, Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison of Texas, ranking member on the aviation subcommittee and Aviation Disaster Attorney Mary Schiavo, Former Department of Transportation Inspector General and later, Genevieve Wood from the Family Research Counsel and radio talk show host, Victoria Jones.

NOVAK: Good evening. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

How good a job has been done since September 11th in protecting American passengers? Not good enough according to an undercover investigation at 32 airports conducted by the Transportation Department's Inspector General. Screeners missed guns 30 percent of the time, simulated explosives 60 percent and knives 70 percent. That's not all. Security breaches forced the evacuation of 59 airport concourses or terminals, forcing nearly 2500 flights to be cancelled or delayed. Is tighter security needed? Does the federal government need to be more deeply involved or is ever-tighter security depressing air travel without making it safer? Former Clinton White House Press Secretary Dee Dee Myers is sitting in on the left tonight. Welcome Dee Dee.

DEE DEE MYERS, GUEST CO-HOST: Thank you, Bob. It's good to be here.

Now we've all seen the statistics from this undercover investigation. And Department of Transportation Inspector General Kenneth Meade ordered the undercover test. And here's what he said about why. Oh, I'm sorry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL JACKSON, DEPUTY TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION: We knew that we had issues to work against and we wanted to identify them with clarity and precision. This was the system that we had and we needed the data to support building the improvements that we know we want. (END VIDEO CLIP)

MYERS: I'm sorry, that was Michael Jackson, Deputy Transportation Secretary explaining why. The Feds didn't take over screening at federal airports around the country until February 17th. So, Genevieve, doesn't this just prove why the federal government needs to get involved in the airport screening process? Oh, I'm sorry. Mary Schiavo.

MARY SCHIAVO, AVIATION DISASTER ATTORNEY: Well, it certainly proves why the government needs to get involved in training and oversight and in coming up with a new plan. But, unfortunately the inspector general's report is simply the fourth of a very long line of these reports. As inspector general in '92, '93 and then again '95 and '96, I did these very investigates. And if anything what's alarming is the current statistics and the findings of the president- ordered report, the one that just came out is actually worse than in 1996 just before the Atlanta Olympics.

So what this really shows is even with everyone performing at their peak performance, supposedly everybody on their toes, really delivering the best security that we can, our system failed, the Department of Transportation failed, the FAA failed and we have to do something dramatically different. And just the Fed stepping in has not made a difference.

MYERS: But the Feds really haven't stepped in. They didn't take over this process until February 17th. The first of 1200 senior supervisors in the security started training this week. The other 900 will be trained in the next three weeks. There will be 30,000 additional federal screeners hired over the course of the next eight or nine months. I mean we're just now beginning to change the process that's desperately in need of something and federal intervention seems to be certainly a much better route than we've been seeing for the last several years.

SCHIAVO: Well, you've made a very, very important point. We're about to bring on and spend even more money doing these kinds of improvements, which Congress and the Senate actually -- the Senate led the way and Kay Bailey Hutchison was very instrumental in trying to get improvement. But what's happening here is the government's doing the same old thing. Remember, these are not going to be true federal employees. They're going to be contract federal employees. They're still going to be contracting with the likes of Argenbright and others. They're still going to be funneling the federal security money over to these companies, keeping them afloat, having them as a middleman instead of giving us true federal employees. And by way, this is still not going to be a law enforcement function.

That is one thing that Senator Hutchison was very smart to ask for. Of course, she lost that to the House version. And that would make a huge difference. Here, we're going to have the same scheme, the same companies providing us the employees and we are not going to get a different result doing the same thing. We are not.

NOVAK: Senator Hutchison, welcome. Senator, I'm not all that worried about these little penknives getting through. Accidentally, my son the other day forgot about a penknife in his pocket and he went through. These are not hijackers. These are not people who are going to take over the planes. You can't hijack a plane now.

I'll tell you what worries me about the present system, Senator. And you may not know about this. I just learned about it today and I don't think it's been papers. On March 21st in Atlanta, the Romano Prodi, who is the President of the European Union, he's Former President of Italy and an aide were coming through Atlanta on the way from Europe to Mexico and they were the only people, according to their protest to the state department who were subjected to this. They were subjected to body searches, shoe searches, very great indignity. And this is the kind of treatment people are getting all over this country on this hysterical security arrangement. Doesn't that worry you?

SENATOR KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON (R), TEXAS: No, it doesn't. I think people need to just relax a little bit and know that we're going to have some inconveniences. But the price is a small price to pay for security. I have heard the complaints. And I've had all of that myself. I have had to take off my shoes. I've had to stand there with my arms out and be inspected. But I will tell you, that is the least of my worries. What I want is to be able to get on an airplane safely.

NOVAK: Well Senator Hutchison, what's happening is that these inconveniences, which you travel -- you probably fly more than I do and I fly a lot and you know what's happening. These inconveniences are resulting in this kind of attitude by a business traveler named Ronald Smith and let's listen to what he says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD SMITH, BUSINESS TRAVELER: They made me hold up my hands, take off my shoes, asked me all kinds of questions. And I said to myself, this isn't worth it. I'm not flying any more. I mean this is nothing but a hassle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Isn't that a problem?

HUTCHISON: Well, I think we want to get the processes so that they are less intrusive. And as we get machines that are more reliable, I think that will happen. As we get a process in place, I think the weights will be less. And we're all looking forward to that.

But I do think people need to give us a little leeway here to get into a routine so that by the end of the year that this bill has been put in place, we hope to have the best aviation security system in the world. We do not now. There's no question that there were some alarm bells in the report that came out. I do think the president was right to do the search, to find out where the holes are. Now we've got to fill them. MYERS: Mary, you said that Argenbright, one of the companies that provides security at airports and one that has been responsible for many security lapses, would be continuing to provide federal -- I mean provide screeners under the federal system but won't they -- in fact, won't they be out of there? Isn't that one of the things that the Department of Transportation should already have done and will do shortly is get rid of companies like Argenbright and replace them with federal employees who are trained -- better trained and better paid than what we see right now?

SCHIAVO: Well, that's what was supposed to happen. And we really have to call on Congress and the Senators and Senator Hutchison can be very, very important in this because that is not what's happening. What is happening is that the FAA and by the way, the FAA is still doing this. They are not out of there. It's still the same old agency that has a dismal failure record. They're continuing to contract with Argenbright. Argenbright provides the security at Reagan National Airport as we sit here tonight. And they are going to continue to do that.

By the way, they just got a training contract. Argenbright is training the future generation of screeners. So that is a big slight of hand and I think it's really a big lie to the American public. 9/11 literally gave these failed security companies literally a raise. And I think Congress should be outraged, the Senate should be outraged and really ask the FAA what in the world they are doing because they are not doing what Congress asked. And it's Congress job to find out why.

NOVAK: We don't have much time left but I want to ask a question to Senator Hutchison that the -- I want to give you a little testimony on what's going on, not from some complainer like me or not from some business traveler but from Tom Ridge, Tom Ridge the Head of Homeland Security. And let's listen to what he had to say. I'm sorry; I thought it was a sound byte. It isn't? He said let's try to do something about these lines and focus the screeners and technologies not on the people that we know and have been basically been cleared but on the people we don't know and the baggage we don't know about. Now isn't that the real problem? That there's just -- it's just a very inefficient operation at the moment?

HUTCHISON: Yes and I agree with him. I think we do need to have systems where people who voluntarily say, I'll be tested. I'll have a security clearance. I will do anything to get an expedited treatment. I think we ought to allow that. And I we ought to go for the people we don't know, the people who are paying cash for a one-way ticket. I mean that's a pretty big signal that something is wrong here. And I think we should get a process down where we have less inconvenience. There's no question that we want to do that.

But I think until November the 19th, when we have to have all of these federal screeners in place and trained and qualified, we're going to have to know that it's not going to be perfect.

NOVAK: OK. Thank you very much Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison, Mary Schiavo, we appreciate it. We'll be back with family night tonight in Ridgewood, New Jersey. It took seven months of planning for a night when, they hope, nothing happens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MYERS: CROSSFIRE, round two. Ridgewood, New Jersey has declared tonight family night. That means no homework, no sports practice and, hopefully, more time to spend with the family. Are children and parents so overloaded that they need to take a break from the daily grind? Should other communities follow Ridgewood's example? Joining us to debate it tonight Radio Talk Show Host Victoria Jones and Genevieve Wood, Vice President at the Family Research Counsel.

NOVAK: Genevieve, a lot of the do-gooders think this is going to get the family all around the table and holding hands and praying. But I want to tell you what it's really about. Let's listen to a Ridgewood student named Caroline Marra.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROLINE MARRA, RIDGEWOOD STUDENT: I am really relieved that I don't have homework.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: She said she doesn't have to do any homework. That's what it's about, isn't it? Kids get out of homework.

GENEVIEVE WOOD, VICE PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNSEL: Well I tell you, depending on what's coming out today's public schools, it might be better that they're not doing a lot of homework. Look, I don't think anybody thinks that tonight is going to change the way families spend time together. But I think it does draw attention to something that we all know but have kind of forgotten about in the last several years, which is spending time with family, building emotional connections is a good thing and as important as little league and soccer practice and cheerleading practice is, as they're all important, there's nothing as important as spending time with moms and dads and kids. And so if this draws some attention to that, I don't think that that's a bad thing.

NOVAK: Genevieve, you and I are usually on the same side. And you're usually a lot more sensible than this. But can you imagine how ludicrous it is for these people to sit around for seven months after they tragically lose 12 people in that town in the September 11th terrorist attack and to say what are we going to do? And we're going to pick one night, just one night where everybody goes home. Doesn't that -- isn't that silly?

WOOD: Well that's a little bit silly. But look, why is this a national news story. If everybody was having family night and it was extremely common, why would the fact that a community in Ridgewood, New Jersey sending out a press release saying, hey, we're going to be having family night being making the national news? Why would CROSSFIRE be talking about it? And I think it's because people realize families are important. In the last -- look, in the past 30 years ago people spent a lot more time with their kids. Today the average parent spends about 17 hours every week with their children. That's not a lot of time.

MYERS: All right. I think we can all agree that families are feeling squeezed even in Ridgewood, New Jersey. And here's what one local parent there had to say about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNY BREINING, RIDGEWOOD PARENT: I think I have the typical amount of madness that everybody, not just in Ridgewood but in most of the country has, rushing around to get the kids to various sports activities, extracurricular things. Myself, I have meetings at night sometimes through volunteer work. It's hard to get together and all eat at once or all be able to continue to stay at the table together without somebody having to rush up and drive somebody somewhere or pick up somebody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MYERS: Victoria, if that's how parents feel, if that's how parents in Ridgewood, New Jersey feel, who are we to say they shouldn't take a stab at setting aside a night, taking a little stand for the family and doing what they think is right? Who are we to say they shouldn't do that?

VICTORIA JONES, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It took a committee seven months to come up with one night. And here's how competitive these people are. They all have to do to agree to do it on the same night because if they don't do it on the same night some other kid might get ahead. This is insane. And all these kids are going to have to make up all the work they missed so it's going to be worse.

MYERS: Well they're not going to have to make up all the work because they coordinated with the schools. They coordinated with little league. They coordinate with some of the service organizations in their community and they all said that we're going to get together ...

JONES: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because somebody else might get into Harvard.

MYERS: Well then -- well ...

JONES: There's a lot of pressure.

MYERS: But that's part of the problem. That's exactly what they're trying to say, hey, we need to step back from this, getting our kids on the fast track from birth. And we're all going to do it together. What is wrong with that idea of them saying -- even if it is just one night?

JONES: It's a great idea. And everybody here is pro-family. Nobody is going to be put in the anti-family. MYERS: Bill Novak's is not pro family.

JONES: OK. OK. Fair enough. But the thing is, yeah, let's do it from birth. Doing it for one night is utterly and completely phony.

WOOD: Well, I don't think it is.

JONES: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

WOOD: But nobody is saying that only one night a week is going to solve the problem. They're just drawing attention to it.

JONES: It's very simple. Everybody stay home, let's play.

WOOD: They're just drawing attention to it.

JONES: That's it. Everybody stay home. Let's play. That's it.

WOOD: That's not what they're saying.

MYERS: If it wasn't ...

JONES: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) extra stuff.

MYERS: If it wasn't a big deal, though, why, as Genevieve said, why would it be getting the national attention?

JONES: Well because when dog bites man, it's a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ...

NOVAK: Because it's silly.

JONES: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) dog biting man. It's a big story.

NOVAK: See, I am pro family no matter what Dee Dee says.

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: I'm pro family but I'm anti-regimentation. And I don't like to be told how my family should be constructed. Now, 30 years ago, I was doing a lot more traveling on the political circuit than I am now as a reporter and columnist and so I was away from home a lot. And to a large extent my wife was raising the kids. And she -- I think it was a godsend for those kids that I wasn't around.

(LAUGHTER)

MYERS: He's not anti-family. He's just anti-fathers.

NOVAK: Anti-me.

WOOD: But, you know what, you make a very important point. And I think you'll agree with me on this. Your wife was at home. Today because the government overtaxes families too much, most families are having both parents at work. Some parents are having to do more than one job. The fact is there's more than just having family night. We ought to be decreasing the amount of taxes we put on the American family. But that's only part of it.

JONES: It's not because of taxes. It's because everybody's on the fast track wanting to get someplace. It's people are not satisfied with a simpler life that they use to be satisfied with.

WOOD: Well you're right. I do think the government does overtax. But secondly ...

MYERS: It's not the government's fault.

WOOD: ... secondly, families, you're right, have lost some priorities. It has become about how much material possessions we get, how far we get up the career ladder as opposed to recognizing how important family bonds are.

JONES: But everybody is doing that.

WOOD: And everybody, left, right, shows you that.

JONES: This doesn't have anything to do with the government. this has to do with, if you like, everybody wanting to get ahead and make more money.

WOODS: It's a community -- it's a local decision. Congress didn't pass a bill. The Supreme Court didn't send out a law.

JONES: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) together and saying our kids are important. Let's play. Not a town saying, we have to have one night. It's ridiculous.

WOOD: There has to be ...

NOVAK: Genevieve, there has to be ...

JONES: Are they all going to watch a movie together. Sound of Music or something.

WOOD: And what's wrong with that?

JONES: It's silly. Not the movie. The movie's great.

NOVAK: Genevieve -- Genevieve, there has to be a little bit sharing sentiment in the family research committee. I know there has to be. Doesn't it -- isn't it a little offensive to you to have in any kind of governmental unit some authority saying to all the people tonight you cannot do anything but sit around the family table? Doesn't that bother you a little bit?

WOOD: But they're not saying that. They're not saying you, as a family, can't go to the mall. Or you as a family can't go to church. You as a family can't go the movies. They're just saying saying -- and they're not saying you can't play sports.

JONES: We don't even know how many people are going to actually do this.

NOVAK: Well we have to go, even if they can't go, we have to go. Victoria Jones, thank you very much. Genevieve Wood, thank you.

Next, CROSSFIRE's "News Alert". Those really terrific little stories you might not know about like Enron victims in Playboy centerfold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: And now CROSSFIRE "News Alert", those fascinating little stories that don't make the headlines. Many people who work for Enron lost their shirts and now some, if female and good looking, can make a little money if they take off, well, a lot of clothes. "Playboy" magazine is writing Enron -- is inviting Enron employees, past and present, to send in bikini snapshots. If they make the grade, they'll appear in Playboy as the women of Enron. A Playboy spokesman says they're just trying to provide a little fun for the Enron gals as well as for the guys who read "Playboy".

MYERS: Who said rock 'n' roll can't change the world? After meeting with Bono, the lead singer of mega-band U2, arch-conservative North Carolina Senator Jessie Helms has had a change of heart and political mind. The long time opponent of foreign aid now wants to spend some 500 million American dollars to fight AIDS in Africa. But true to form, Helms still opposes spending money to fight AIDS here at home where he says the homosexual lifestyle is to blame for the spread of the disease. Maybe you can't expect too much from Helms, who is 81 years old or maybe it's just time to send Bob Villain (ph) up to Capitol Hill.

NOVAK: He's back or at least he may be back. Former Washington, D.C. Mayor Marion S. Barry is planning a political comeback running for the D.C. city council and that's not all. Between two hitches as mayor, he served six months in prison for cocaine possession. Now the U.S. Park Police reports it found trace amounts of marijuana and cocaine in Barry's car but not enough to make an arrest. And police noted but did not test a white powdery substance around his nose. Meanwhile, full speed ahead on his new campaign for office in the nation's Capitol.

MYERS: Voters may not want to see Gary Condit in Washington, as a recent primary result showed. But the grand jury has a different view. The panel investigating the both the disappearance of intern Chandra Levy and allegations of obstruction of justice by Condit has subpoenaed him to appear next month. Condit who's never been a suspect in Levy's disappearance has nonetheless refused to provide a full accounting to law enforcement, his congressional colleagues or his constituents. Maybe the grand jury will have better luck.

From the left, I'm Dee Dee Myers.

NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.

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