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CNN Crossfire

How Worried Should U.S Citizens be About Dirty Bombs?; Are Prenuptials Necessary in Marriages Between Rich People?

Aired June 11, 2002 - 19:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE, on the left, James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson. In the CROSSFIRE tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There are people that still want to harm America.

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ANNOUNCER: Are we making it too easy for them? Tonight, nukes on the move. Could a potential dirty bomb be rolling through your neighborhood?

And a question every community needs to ask, who's ready for a dirty bomb?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The biggest thing we have to fear is the panic associated with this type of explosion.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THE BEATLES (singing): All you need is love...

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ANNOUNCER: But is love really all you need? Do the rich also need a prenuptial agreement?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THE BEATLES (singing): All you need is love, love...

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ANNOUNCER: Ahead on CROSSFIRE.

From the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Good evening and welcome to CROSSFIRE. Tonight, a former Beatle says, "I do" to a new bride and apparently "I don't" to a prenuptial agreement.

Also, with dirty bombs on everyone's radar screen, is this the best time to put nuclear waste on everyone's railroads and roadways?

But first, damage control -- and not the political kind. We've all seen pictures of disaster preparedness drills. They seem a lot more real and a lot more scary in light of yesterday's news, but the United States has detained a man who authorities say was plotting to set off a dirty bomb. No matter where you live, the question is, is your community safe?

First tonight in the CROSSFIRE, Dr. Mohammad Akhter, he is the executive director of the American Public Health Association. Doctor, welcome to CROSSFIRE.

DR. MOHAMMAD AKHTER, EXEC. DIRECTOR, AMERICAN PUBLIC HEALTH ASSOCIATION: Thank you.

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Last night we had on a man named colonel Randy Larsen of the ANSER Institute, someone who spends a lot of his time thinking about eventuality, such as the dirty bomb, and he said what many people have been saying today and the day before, that the dirty bomb is essentially inevitable. It will happen at some point in this country, and that it's, in fact, not that big a deal, that the biggest threat may be psychological, the panic it would cause.

He didn't answer the question, though, that I want to ask you, and that is, what exactly is the government doing to prepare for this, to prevent the panic and physical injuries it could result?

AKHTER: The government has been working for many years to deal with the nuclear threat, you know. We -- during the Cold War era, we started to prepare and more recently since September 11, we have done tremendous amount of work in getting the communication set up and getting the good intelligence that you saw producing the results, that we caught this individual, and also we are a lot more prepared today than when we were nine months ago.

And so this is -- this is not the time for people to worry about it. This is the time to really look straight in the eye and say let's not panic. Our government is prepared to...

CARLSON: Really...

AKHTER: ... deal with the situation.

CARLSON: Well -- because it's interesting you say that. I mean and you are echoing a lot of people saying don't panic, don't worry about it. I want to read you a quote from Michael Levy from the Federation of Concern of American Scientists in "The Washington Post" here. Here's what he said: We haven't had any dress rehearsals for this. We won't ever have any, meaning a dirty bomb, if our medical personnel aren't trained to separate the immediate radiation sickness from psychosomatic symptoms, our public health systems will be overwhelmed.

CARLSON: That's true. They will be overwhelmed. Isn't that something to worry about?

AKHTER: No, I sort of disagree with it. I think the public today is a lot more sophisticated. I was Health Commissioner in Washington. People know a lot more. They understand what we're going through. They're a lot more patient. They're -- if they're given the right instructions, they will do the right thing. So I don't think there will be that kind of a panic that they will go and overwhelm our medical facilities or clog up our streets.

It's our job to provide the people the real information and saying in case of an attack, and this is what you need to do. You need to stay indoors. Don't run to pick up your kids from school. Don't try to run home. You are best protected when you are inside. We are monitoring the situation, and we will be in touch with you. And we will tell you what the safe passage is to really get out of here.

To those who have been actually affected by the bomb in the nearby vicinity, we are ready to provide the treatment, and we have the HAZMAT unit. We have the police department, the fire department, the medical community, and the physician community. So we are a lot more prepared to really deal with what a dirty bomb is.

BEGALA: But, Dr. Akhter, with all respect, you're basically asking us to do nothing. You're asking people in the face of a crisis to be passive, and it's just not in most people's character. Can they at least, for example, the hot thing today is potassium iodide, KI pills that now -- that's the new rage. These people are ordering them online.

Shouldn't people, at least in critical areas, like Westchester County, New York where there's a nuclear facility, they already have potassium iodide. Here in Washington, D.C. or New York City or other likely targets, shouldn't they already have potassium iodide pills?

AKHTER: Not at all. It's just like a rush. You know, when there was the anthrax scare, everybody ran out there and buy -- bought Cipro and now people are looking at potassium iodide. Potassium iodide is good for those folks who live in the nuclear plant facility, in the vicinity, within a ten-mile radius because ...

BEGALA: But these people, in this audience, these people may be here in Washington, D.C. within a 10-mile area of a dirty bomb attack. How many here would like to have potassium iodide, which may protect you from thyroid cancer? Give me a show of hands. Who doesn't think it's important?

AKHTER: But let me ask you ...

BEGALA: Nice knowing you. AKHTER: If something like this happened and we tell you that we will provide the potassium iodide, it's good if you take within three or four hours when you need it.

BEGALA: How can you get it there in three or four hours? Shouldn't they have it on the shelf?

AKHTER: No, no, no. We have the emergency personnel. I mean we have done this preparedness for bioterrorism, that's what this has been all about, to really make arrangement that if we have to provide the medication to the people, to take it to the right time, to the right people, and to give people the right dose. Children need different dose. The adult need different dose, to really have the right amount of dose available to the people who really need it.

I mean there's no point in storing the medication and try to take the medication without any -- without any reason.

CARLSON: But, Doctor, the tone you're striking is a very familiar one. You mentioned anthrax. This is almost exactly the sort of advice public health officials were giving people in Washington when anthrax first happened. People were thinking about anthrax attacks for a long time. The idea was we knew a lot about anthrax. We knew how to proceed and yet there were postal workers here in Washington who went back on the job on the advice of public health authorities and some of them died.

AKHTER: We have lot more information and lot more experience with radiation. We've been working with it for many, many years. There are a lot of research labs where the work is done. There are nuclear power plants, 100 plus nuclear power plants in this country. We have experience from other countries. We know a lot more about radiation what to do compared with anthrax. We didn't have that much of an experience with anthrax...

CARLSON: Now

AKHTER: ... And so -- so let me just finish this. And September 11, what it has done is really have waken up the bureaucracy, waken up the medical community. People are a lot more aware, a lot more alert. There's a lot more information available today than it was then. And so we are a lot more prepared.

And you know what's the point in panicking the public by telling them go rush and buy potassium iodide or go do this or go do that. That's really not the issue. The issue here is to really have a clear understanding what this dirty bomb is, what it can do, and what the long-term implications are and to make sure that here are the steps that we have taken as a government or as ...

CARLSON: OK, well just very quickly in the short time we have left. In an effort to panic our viewers, can you tell us what the long-term health effects would be, if a dirty bomb was detonated in Washington D.C. Could people live in downtown in the next 20 years say if a bomb went off here? AKHTER: I think there are two impacts of a dirty bomb. One of them is on the people. People who have been exposed. Those people need to be decontaminated and then need to be watched over a period of years because what radiation does it affects the nucleus of your cell, central function of your living organisms. And by influencing that process, it can create cancer. It can cause leukemia. It can cause cancer of various parts.

And more importantly, it'll take many years to really develop that, so we can really monitor the individuals. The second part is the contamination itself and boy, oh boy, if you thought anthrax contamination took so long, millions of dollars, and long time to clean up the buildings, wait until you hear about radiation.

It takes a long time to clean those things and that's what really the main threat is. The main threat is that it will be very hard to clean and the economic damage that it will do because people will not come to our city will be just tremendous, and that's what we worried about.

CARLSON: Well see that's panic inspiring. Thank you, Dr. Akhter. We appreciate you joining us.

AKHTER: My pleasure. Thanks.

CARLSON: Where would a bad guy get the radioactive material for a dirty bomb? Perhaps he could just wait at the nearest railroad crossing.

Next, is the U.S. about to make a terrorist job too easy? And later, whether a prenuptial agreement would help or hurt the chances she'll still need him when he's 64. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We're coming to you live from the George Washington University in beautiful downtown Washington.

Time now for a look at those unusual and interesting stories you might not find anywhere but in our CROSSFIRE news alert.

The Supreme Court has refused to hear a case in which the Bush administration asked it to declare that the second amendment gives individuals a personal right to own guns. The ruling is a victory for all who believe that when the founding fathers said gun rights are for militias, they didn't need every yahoo with an Uzi and a Ted Nugent album.

Legal scholars note that since a 1939 Supreme Court ruling on the issue, it has been considered settled, which is why the Bush appeal was seen as so controversial. Solicitor General Theodore Olson, however, was miffed, telling the CNN news alert "if the Supreme Court didn't want Bush to be a toady for the NRA, why did they appoint him president in the first place?"

CARLSON: I don't consider ordinary people yahoos.

BEGALA: Good point, Ted.

CARLSON: I'm the populist here.

A meeting of the Atlantic City of New Jersey Democratic Committee ended in violence last night, when an argument broke out between a man named Jihad Callaway and his fellow Democrat, Elijah Steele (ph). Witnesses say the aptly named Jihad Callaway pulled a knife on Mr. Steele (ph), who responded by pulling his own knife, slashing ensued. Neither man was seriously injured, however. And in the end, none of the other Democrats present were forced to draw their knives. The Democratic Party of New Jersey, vote early, vote often, come armed.

BEGALA: On a more serious note, today is the nine month anniversary of the terror attacks of September 11. Those attacks were, of course, masterminded, organized, planned, staged, sponsored and financed by Osama bin Laden. You remember Osama bin Laden, don't you? In the weeks after the September 11 attacks, President Bush made bin Laden one of the world' most famous men. He declared him rightly an evildoer and properly pledged that America would never rest until we got him, in Bush's words, "dead or alive."

But we haven't heard a lot from Mr. Bush about bin Laden lately. Having escaped America's fury in Afghanistan, the evildoer seems to have dropped off of President Bush's rhetorical radar screen. A search of the White House Web site's database reveals that Bush has mentioned bin Laden's name only twice in the last three months. One of those times was in response to a question from a reporter about why he never talks about bin Laden any more.

We at CROSSFIRE take comfort in knowing that our fighting forces have not forgotten bin Laden, even if our commander in chief has.

CARLSON: I don't think he has, but back when the Clintonites scurried out of the White House, incoming Bush staffers complained of vandalism, theft, and pranks. Complaints that are now confirmed by the General Accounting Office. A 220-page report obtained by the Associated Press cites stolen office products, desk drawers glued shut, and yes, "W" keys pried off of keyboards. Potential damage to the White House complex, says the report, is both inappropriate and a serious matter. All of that's true, but it's not our quote of the day.

Georgia congressman Bob Barr gets the nod for condensing the GAO's 220 pages into one sentence of plain English. Quote, "The Clinton administration treated the White House worse than college freshmen checking out of their dorm rooms."

You know, Paul, I love the response from Democrats, which is, you know, it was only 10 grand worth of damage, and the government spent hundreds of thousands of investigating it. To which I say, the White House is a national monument, a national treasure. If somebody spray painted the Washington monument that cost $50 worth of damage, you wouldn't say spend $50 finding out what happened. You would say find out what happened. It's an atrocity, correct it, and bring those responsible for doing it to justice, period. It's not about money.

BEGALA: Can I read you from the report?

CARLSON: I wish you would.

BEGALA: Can I read you from the report itself? The report concludes, "we were unable to conclude whether the 2001 transition was worse than previous ones. It was the usual wear and tear of moving thousands of people out of offices on the very same day that thousands more have to move in. In fact, the civil servant who was responsible...

CARLSON: The (UNINTELLIGIBLE) prying "W"s out of keyboards? Come on.

BEGALA: ...the civil servant who was responsible for overseeing the custodial staff during that transition said this. She believed more trash was left in the building during the 1993 transition, when Bush left and Clinton came in, than the 2001 transition. So if you want to get on your high horse, let me hear you tell the outrage of Bush senior's staff...

CARLSON: Let me explain...

BEGALA: ... scrawling obscenities on the walls of the White House, breaking chairs, breaking computers, ripping phone lines out of the wall. This is all from the GAO report, Tucker.

CARLSON: Let me explain this. I think, Paul, one of the reasons this story has traction, one of the reasons we're talking about it...

BEGALA: It's because the vast right-wing...

CARLSON: ... A year later

BEGALA: ... won't get off Clinton's back...

CARLSON: Let me explain it, because...

BEGALA: You did a great job.

CARLSON: It's a metaphor for the careless, reckless, arrogant way Clinton himself...

BEGALA: Of Bush senior's staff.

CARLSON: ...treated the country. Sleeping with a woman when he's on the phone with a congressman. If this is a metaphor.

BEGALA: It's time for you all to apologize to Clinton and his staff, who treated the White House with great respect.

CARLSON: For trashing it both -- in some deeper sense and physically? No, never.

BEGALA: No. Well then, read the report, Tucker. Try doing that.

CARLSON: It's embarrassing the administration. Their final days were the most embarrassing.

BEGALA: It was the same transition...

CARLSON: Not surprisingly.

BEGALA: ...that we have always had.

CARLSON: I love this. It's the other guys did it, OK.

BEGALA: There's always wear and tear when people move out, Tucker.

CARLSON: Prying "W"s off (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BEGALA: Still to come in our "Fireback" section, an e-mail from a viewer who's just fed up with Tucker's constant whining about the Clinton presidential library. And it wasn't me. And next, she's really got a hold on him, but what about his money? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Former Beatle Paul McCartney got married today. It was a major wedding. And at the bottom of it, yes, there is a CROSSFIRE debate. Prenuptial agreements, moral, immoral, good idea, bad idea? We'll debate it when we come back.

But now "Round Six," no guests, just Paul and me.

Paul...

BEGALA: Tucker?

CARLSON: I have to say that transporting nuclear waste across the country sounds terrifying, and of course I understand it. Feel sorry for John Ensign. The people of his state are against it, but let's be honest here. There are nuclear materials everywhere. They're in doctor's offices. They're used to irradiate food. They're in all sorts of technical instruments. They're in your smoke detector in your house. They're in the granite on the street.

This is a scare tactic devised by people who represent the voters of Nevada. That's all it is.

BEGALA: If that material is just as safe as you say and as Johnson...

CARLSON: I'm not saying it's safe.

BEGALA: Just as safe as mother's milk. Why do we have to put it in these impregnable casks? Why? Because it's high level, radioactive waste. It is highly lethal and highly attractive to terrorists. I love the idea that they've design these shipment containers, but we don't need to put them on wheels...

CARLSON: But...

BEGALA: Leave them right at the site. By the way, as Senator Ensign pointed out, there's still going to be waste at those sites anyway. So now instead of 131 sites...

CARLSON: I love this.

BEGALA: ...we're going to have 132 plus -- hundreds of trucks rolling around. Winnebagos with nuclear waste in them.

CARLSON: You're making two arguments simultaneously. The first is because it's not perfect, we shouldn't do it all. And the second is the same argument made for Social Security...

BEGALA: It's...

CARLSON: ...it's just too darn scary. Let me put it this way. France, which I think it would have been a technologically backward country, moves vast amounts of nuclear waste around the country every year, far more than the United States does. And like the United States, it has done it for many decades without a single injury. This is a very dangerous product, but it is handled in a very safe manner by the federal government. And I think it will continue to be.

BEGALA: You have great faith in the federal government, my friend. On that front, you're learning. But no, not enough faith to let this stuff roll around. Besides, the political aspect of this is most aggravating to people in Nevada and I think the rest of America...

CARLSON: The rest of America.

BEGALA: ...is how Bush lied. He went to Nevada...

CARLSON: Oh, please. Oh, please.

BEGALA: Dick Cheney went to Nevada before the election and said, "We won't put the nuclear storage facility in your state unless the science gets better, improves it."

CARLSON: Oh...

BEGALA: The science has gotten worse. Bush went back on his word.

CARLSON: It's been 24 years they've been studying this question.

BEGALA: So why did he lie? Why did he lie?

CARLSON: You know for an absolute fact he didn't lie.

BEGALA: It's (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CARLSON: We did a previous show of CROSSFIRE. And tomorrow, we'll get the tape and prove you as a twister of your own words, which is even weirder...

BEGALA: No, it's who Bush lied.

CARLSON: OK. And next, prenuptial agreements. After that, later in the "Fireback," Paul gets an e-mail lecture on the rights of accused dirty bombers. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. All he needed was love, and a whole lot of money. Former Beatle Paul McCartney tied the knot today with Heather Mills. Their vows were recited in a church on the grounds of an Irish castle. Three hundred guests, including Ringo and Twiggy were there. High end estimates put the cost of Paul's wedding bash at $3 million, but he can afford it.

Can though, however, he afford not to have signed a prenuptial agreement? "USA Today" says he didn't do it. Could Heather take him to the cleaners if the marriage doesn't last more than the old six or eight hours it's lasted so far? We're putting prenups in the CROSSFIRE with divorce attorney Raoul Felder, who joins us from New York.

RAOUL FELDER, DIVORCE ATTORNEY: How do you do?

BEGALA: He represents the wealthy, the powerful, the embittered and the divorcing. Mr. Felder.

CARLSON: Mr. Felder, it strikes me if you're signing a prenuptial agreement, you're not preparing for marriage, you're preparing for divorce. So why get married in the first place?

FELDER: You know, Tucker, it's an unromantic kind of thing, but if you want to see un-romance, think about a divorce with all the chaos and anger and hatred and angst and so forth. So it makes good economic sense. It makes good psychological sense. And it makes good legal sense.

CARLSON: But wait a second. I mean, if you're that afraid -- if you're that afraid of getting divorced in the first place, then you probably shouldn't get married. Isn't marriage all about romance? So if you're not -- if you're that worried, why not get a concubine or a hooker? You know, why pretend?

FELDER: Well, putting hookers aside, you know, we're faced with a statistic that half the marriages end in divorce in America. Then if you add to that all of the unrecorded stuff, like just the unhappy people who are unhappily married, you got a marriage failure rate in America that's well over 50 percent, an epidemic, a pandemic. And there's a vaccine out there for that. And that vaccine is a prenuptial agreement. So you got to take it unless you want to be one of the victims.

BEGALA: Let me torture that metaphor a little more then, Mr. Felder.

FELDER: Yes.

BEGALA: What if, in fact, it's not a vaccine that helps to prevent divorce, but in fact, is something that helps to cause it? Right, if you give too much of a vaccine to someone, they actually get the disease. What better way to kill off the romance in a marriage than to sit down and say, you know, pretty good chance, baby, that one of us is going to leave the other. So let's just figure it out right now and split the sheets even before we get married. That must be a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?

FELDER: Yes, Paul. There's no question. A certain number of prenuptials cause a divorce before people get married, but the argument is better find it out now, rather than spend 10 years of misery. If it's going to -- if marriage is going to turn. And whether I get $1,000 or $5,000, I'd like know it now and I'd like to move on. And maybe she should move on, too.

BEGALA: Well, doesn't this actually -- are you arguing against your own interests? I guess you draw them up, but don't divorce lawyers do better if there's no prenup?

FELDER: Yes, but we're public servants. I mean, we think of the public...

BEGALA: God bless you. I know you -- I don't mean to laugh, no but -- come on, you -- I know you don't wish any ill on anyone...

FELDER: Yes.

BEGALA: ...but doesn't your fee go up if there's like a lot of embittered people and hatred and throwing lamps and stuff?

FELDER: Well, yeah, but we also -- doctors make money when somebody has a terrible disease and goes on and on and on. But still in all, they give the vaccination. So we're giving the vaccination, but if you get the disease, look up my number in the phone book.

CARLSON: But wait -- no, but wait a second, Mr. Felder. I mean, this isn't a foolproof vaccination. I mean, there -- people have prenuptial agreements.

FELDER: Yes.

CARLSON: Kirk Kekorian, for instance.

FELDER: Yes.

CARLSON: Multibillionaire married for something like 28 days, had a prenuptial agreement. Did his bride pay attention? Of course not. She sued him for, you know, $300,000 a week and you know, beauty parlor upkeep or something along those lines. So I mean, you can still challenge these, can you not?

FELDER: Yes. There's no question about that, Forrest. And the problem is that it's the one lawsuit in the history of the world, that if you sue and lose, you're back with (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in the first place. So you got nothing to lose by suing. But very few people are successful.

You know, all of this trouble, people started worrying about prenuptial agreements, was when Donald Trump. People started to coming to their lawyers and saying, "Gee whiz, if Donald Trump with all of his wisdom and knowledge and sophistication, his wife is challenging his prenuptial agreement, what about my poor neighborhood lawyer who prepared one?" Well, the fact is Donald Trump stood up, and most all of these stand up if they're prepared appropriately.

BEGALA: Mr. Felder, if you can hang on just a second.

FELDER: Yes.

BEGALA: We are now joined by someone who wants to debate you, as well as Tucker and I do. Maggie Gallagher is a columnist and the author of the book "The Case for Marriage". She joins us I believe out of San Antonio. Ms. Gallagher, are you there? Can you hear me?

MAGGIE GALLAGHER, AUTHOR, "THE CASE FOR MARRIAGE": I am here. I can hear you. Can you hear me?

BEGALA: We've been talking about prenuptial agreements. And you'll have to explain to our audience and Mr. Felder what's wrong with two adults entering into whatever kind of private contract they want to?

GALLAGHER: Well, it's fine when it's legal and people (UNINTELLIGIBLE), but the question is, is it a good idea or is it -- is it in fact a wonderful thing that someone like Paul McCartney loves a woman enough that he's not interested in protecting himself or his property? That he wants to, in fact, endow her with all his worldly goods, as the old song goes.

And I think the trouble with prenuptials is that, although I think there is some legitimate reasons for getting them, that when you engage in divorce planning on the eve of your marriage, it's a pretty good sign that there's some serious problems, and you're going to need that prenup down the road.

BEGALA: Well, but I engage in drawing up a will. It doesn't mean I'm seriously looking forward to dying. But I'm trying to protect my kids. What if in a situation, there are kids involved from a previous marriage?

GALLAGHER: The difference -- yes.

BEGALA: You want to protect their financial interests in your own way?

GALLAGHER: Well, no, I think that's a good -- I think that's a very good reason to have a prenup. But the main reason that wealth men get prenups is they want to protect their assets from their wife. And I think it's a real problem if you go into a marriage saying that the main thing I want to do in this marriage is I want to protect myself from you in the event that you decide to take too much of my money in the future. And I think that's a real problem. BEGALA: Well, let me defend...

GALLAGHER: Moreover, I think to flip it around, I think...

BEGALA: ...my general fear though, Ms. Gallagher, it actually turns out that "The New York Times" surveyed Americans on this just a few weeks ago. Seventy-nine percent of Americans saw benefit in prenuptial agreements. And you'd be interested to learn that the subsection of our country that thought they did the most benefit were single women over the age of 55, who themselves, want to protect their own assets, I suspect. What's the matter with their interests?

GALLAGHER: Well, single women over --- well, I'm not here to tell anyone that they can't get a prenup if they want one. But the question is, is that do you think that someone who doesn't get a prenup is doing something stupid? Or do you think that somebody who goes into marriage being willing to take the risk of giving, in fact, their money? You know, the thing about Paul McCartney that I think about is that, you know, he's not a guy who's going to starve. Even if the worst happens and the marriage ends in divorce, there's enough money for him and ex-wife.

BEGALA: Oh, he'd have to go back to Wings, though, Maggie. Nobody wants to see that.

GALLAGHER: That's right. You got to think that there's something, first of all, magnificent about being really willing to stake your all in the marriage in the first place. And secondly, that there's something problematic about saying I love this person to death. I'm going to stay with them until death do us part. But just in case, I'm going to protect my money. Like you can have my bed. You can have my person, but my pocketbook, I'm going to keep to myself.

CARLSON: Now Raoul Felder, you said something fascinating a moment ago. You said when Donald Trump's prenuptial agreement sort of fell through, you knew people who looked at that and said I'd better get a different kind of prenuptial agreement. Who specifically, can you name names, looked at Donald Trump's marriage history and thought that inspires me in some way?

FELDER: Oh, we don't kiss and tell. But I'll tell you...

CARLSON: Oh, please.

FELDER: ...lawyers all over America started to be bombarded by questions about prenuptial agreements. But Maggie said something that's a misconception. She said prenuptial agreements is for the wealthy people. It's not for wealthy people. It's for everybody. America's the land of promise.

GALLAGHER: But sir, (UNINTELLIGIBLE), lawyer...

FELDER: Well wait, Maggie, let me finish.

GALLAGHER: If everyone gets a prenup, there would be a lot of business for lawyers, there's no question.

FELDER: In America, the guy who sells the ticket owns the theater tomorrow. The waiter owns a restaurant. That's what you worry about. Wealthy people know how to protect themselves many ways. Can insulate it other ways than prenuptial agreements. It's for the average person. If you don't get a prenuptial, you should see a psychiatrist, and not a lawyer today.

GALLAGHER: Yes, I wouldn't marry anyone who asked me to sign a prenup. And I don't think any woman should, or any man, really, for that -- unless it's to protect, as I said, as you suggested, the children from a previous marriage, so that they get their fair share of the inheritance. I think that is a different matter.

It really demotes, in my view, and Americans are free to do what they want, but in my view, it risks turning your wife into something more like a concubine. You know, you really aren't willing to risk your all with this woman. You are really thinking about protecting and preserving yourself. And that's a bad attitude to go into marriage with.

BEGALA: Concubine's a sexier title, though.

CARLSON: We are back to concubines. Raoul Felder in New York, thank you very much. Maggie Gallagher in El Paso, Texas, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

(APPLAUSE)

Coming up, your turn to fire back at us. Yet another viewer has become a fashion critic. We'll be right back.

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BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We call this segment "Fireback." And your weapon of choice apparently is crossfire@cnn.com. The old e-mail bag. Let's take a look.

Thomas Koury of New York, New York writes, "I would just like to say that Abdullah al Muhajir," oh the hell with him, "has no rights. Contrary to what Mr. Begala thinks, this terrorist should be held until proven innocent. It makes no difference where he is held. I hope that Mr. Begala remembers that these terrorists feed on our freedoms and liberties. They abuse and misuse them in every way they can."

I'll try to keep that in mind, Tom.

CARLSON: Good for you, Paul. Ruth Ann Cloud of Garland, Texas writes, "Why is Tucker so up in the air about President Clinton's library? What could possibly be so wonderful about the Nixon Library -- blank tapes, shredded documents? I am sure there will be no shortage of visitors once the Clinton structure is completed."

Ruth Ann, I'm not up in the air. I'm appalled building a massive structure to yourself to make up for your failed leadership, looks like Albania.

BEGALA: You're confusing that with the Bush library in Bryant, Texas.

CARLSON: Not there yet.

BEGALA: "You guys aren't on the left and the right! You're political party poopers -- always pooping," oh Lord...all right always...

CARLSON: You're supposed to read the e-mail before you read them on the air, Paul.

BEGALA: I know, exactly. You know, the scatological references. "Always pooping on the other's party. When one party has a truly good idea, the other attacks it because of its creators. Can't we just focus on whether an idea is beneficial or not, and drop the blind attacks on whose idea it was? Greg. Noble thought from a man who used poop in an e-mail, Greg.

CARLSON: William King of Fort Myers writes, "Do you remember that movie Problem Child?" No, I don't. Sounds like a straight to video release. "The kid with the bow tie? Well he's grown up now and I guess we know who it is!" You know what? I think he looks cool. I don't care what you say.

BEGALA: Yes, your name and your town and your question or comment, sir?

SANTAY GETTY: My name is Santay Getty (ph). I'm originally from Strongsville, Ohio. And I'm just wondering if you were so confident these trucks that you would personally drive one?

CARLSON: Of course, I would. Are you kidding? I'm not sure I'd ride in one, but I'd drive it. Yes, of course.

GETTY: Fair enough.

BEGALA: Man.

CARLSON: Thanks. You can come any time with me.

BEGALA: Not on a bet. Who wants Tucker driving those trucks? Yes, sir?

DAVE: Dave from Summerfield, Florida. Isn't it a fact that if you enter into a marriage with the prenuptial agreement that you're saying that your marriage is doomed from the start?

CARLSON: Of course, you are. And plus, it's also vulgar and embarrassing. Can you imagine?

BEGALA: That's why the rich do. The prenup is a deal for the Republicans, not for Democrats. My people...

CARLSON: Really? BEGALA: ...believe in love and romance.

CARLSON: That is such...

BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. Good night for CROSSFIRE.

CARLSON: From the right, I am Tucker Carlson. Tune in tomorrow night, a Wednesday night, for yet another addition of CROSSFIRE. See you then.

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