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CNN Crossfire

Remembering the Dead With an Eye on the Election; Political Ads of 2002

Aired October 28, 2002 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE: On the left: James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right: Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE tonight: remembering the dead with an eye on the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: A wonderful tribute to Paul Wellstone's memory that somebody of this stature and principle of Walter Mondale would now pick up the fallen torch and carry forward to Election Day and into...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: But, should Walter Mondale say yes?

It's time to get rough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Using scare tactics to get votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNER: They aren't playing nice, and you'll just love it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... working longer. But Bush and the Republicans still want to push their privatization plans through Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We've got the best, funniest and dirtiest political ads of 2002.

Plus, the suspects are locked up. Now what do they do with them?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We intend to prosecute the 17-year-old as an adult. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: The legal strategies and political infighting. Ahead on CROSSFIRE.

From the George Washington University: Paul Begala and Robert Novak.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

Tonight, should the Democratic Party change its motto to "forward into the past?"

Also, we're finally going keep our promise to show you some of this year's best political ads.

But first, as we do every day, let's start with the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."

Walter Frederick Fritz Mondale, remember him? Apparently not that many Minnesota voters do. Ever since Senator Paul Wellstone died in a plane crash last Friday, a nonstop publicity campaign has boosted the former vice president as the new Democratic Senate candidate. Republicans cringed, but their statewide polls shows GOP candidate Norm Coleman running only two points behind Mondale.

Remember Mondale has not been a Minnesota candidate since 1972 and hasn't been on the Minnesota ballot since 1984. That's when he ran for president and carried only Minnesota all of the states by a tiny margin. He wasn't much of a candidate then. Now, he's 74-years- old and he looks it.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: I can't believe the party of Ronald Reagan and Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms -- oh, by the way, Bob Novak. I'm living proof that you can be in a debate with somebody 70 and still get your ass kicked, Bob. And that's what's going to happen to the Republicans when they get to the Senate.

Well, the Wellstone family of course is grief stricken. They spent the day burying Senator Paul Wellstone, his wife Sheila and their daughter Marcia. But the Republican attack machine did not take the day off.

Led by Newt Gingrich, Republicans have been busy savaging Walter Mondale, the respected former vice president and likely Wellstone successor. Speaker Gingrich accused former Vice President Mondale of supporting the privatization of Social Security. That, of course, is completely false. In fact, Mondale served on a commission that studied retirement programs around the world and he specifically dissented from the recommendation to privatize Social Security.

Yesterday, Norm Coleman, the Republican who has been attacking Wellstone now for months, told reporters that the people of Minnesota still need a little time to mourn before the Senate campaign resumes. CNN has learned, however, that Coleman's campaign has already found time to cut some new political ads. NOVAK: Let me get this straight if I can, please, Paul. That the idea is you can have Joe Lieberman coming out and saying, boy, we are going to elect Joe Lieberman to be in the Paul Wellstone tradition -- I mean, we're going elect Fritz Mondale to be in the Paul Wellstone tradition, but if you say that's not a good idea, you're being a vicious politician.

Just two weeks ago California's democratic Governor Gray Davis announced his campaign would run no more negative ads against Republican candidate Bill Simon. That sure didn't last long. Just one week later, last Friday, Davis began running a TV ad attacking Simon's record as a businessman. Why the switch?

Davis campaign manager, Gary South (ph), said it was a response to Simon's negative ads, which were surely expected anyway. Maybe Gray Davis, a serial negative attacker in politics, just couldn't resist clubbing his opponent or could it be that he's not as confident of winning November 5 as he claims?

BEGALA: I love negative ads as long as they are factual and fair and on the record. And these all seem to be all of that. So I say good for gray Davis. Club away.

"The St. Petersburg Times" reports that Florida Governor Jeb Bush has holdings in companies that have a stake in the policies he helps to decide. Experienced trust attorneys who reviewed the governor's trust for "The St. Petersburg Times" said that Mr. Bush's trust is far from blind and that the governor could still direct investments through a third party.

One Bush investment was in an oil drilling company that bid on an offshore drilling lease that became available only after Governor Bush reached a compromise with the federal government that allowed drilling off the Florida coast. Now, I'm sure Mr. Bush was just as independent and unbiased in his decisions that affected his investments as, say, Katherine Harris was during the Florida recount.

NOVAK: Paul, "The St. Petersburg Times" is the most liberal paper in Florida, which has endorsed Mr. McBride, Governor Bush's opponent. The stock they're talking about is in a mutual fund that was purchased for him. You can't have a blind trust under the law in Florida because of the transparency law. And I think it is generally agreed that Governor Bush has done more than any other previous governor of Florida to separate his private investments from his public decisions.

Senator John Edwards, once the brightest new Democratic candidate for president, has become known for his political gaffes. "U.S. News" reports that Edward's campaigning in New Hampshire recently called on the state's voters to elect Democratic Governor Jeanne Shaheen to the U.S. Senate to repeal the Bush tax cuts. Uh-oh, Shaheen is against repeal of the Bush tax cuts. So is Senate Democratic -- so is Democratic Senator Tim Johnson fighting for his life in South Dakota. So are most Democratic candidates who face a contested election on November 5.

Can the Democratic leaders ever learn that Americans just don't like taxes?

BEGALA: Can the Republicans ever learn that Americans can't stand these Bush deficits? We're going to have to do something about them. It's either going to be tax breaks for the rich that go away or our deficit that gets bigger. I would rather raise taxes on Mr. Novak and me, because we're rich.

The University of Michigan's index of consumer sentiment slumped to its lowest level since 1993, which of course means Americans are far less confident of President Bush's economic stewardship than they were of President Clinton's policies. And the latest CNN-"USA Today " Gallup Poll shows that it is still the economy, stupid. The economy is far and away the leading issue in next week's elections, outpacing terrorism by almost two to one and Iraq by more than four to one.

Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts has come up with a novel way to link both the economy and the war on Iraq. He says we should simply send the Bush economic team to Baghdad. They'd have Iraq on its knees in no time.

NOVAK: You know, Paul, I know you get around the country a little bit, and so do I. This doesn't look like people are worried about the economy. The restaurants are filled with middle class Americans. Now, you Democrats have been trying to stir up public anxiety for all year and you only got a week left to do it.

BEGALA: Well, once that week is over, we'll have full control of the House and the Senate. We'll be able to unwind some of these Bush policies.

Well, Americans, of course, have a long tradition of summoning some of their elder statesman back to serve in the United States Senate. Democrat Hubert Humphrey and Republican Barry Goldwater come to mind in the recent past. Now, after the tragic death of Paul Wellstone, the senator's sons and leading Democrats across Minnesota, are calling on former Senator, former Ambassador and former Vice President and president candidate Walter Mondale.

Mondale has said he'll announce a decision after tomorrow night's memorial service for Senator Wellstone. That hasn't stopped the GOP attack machine, and of course it won't stop CROSSFIRE from analyzing the likely Coleman-Mondale race.

We have two of the best in the business to talk about it tonight: Democratic strategist Steve McMahon and Republican Alex Castellanos.

(APPLAUSE)

NOVAK: Steve, let me see if I can understand this. The body was not even cold on Friday when the Democrats started saying we got to have Fritz Mondale to run. Senator Lieberman -- we ran the sound bite -- says we got to have Fritz Mondale to carry on the tradition of PaulWellstone. And the minute the Republicans say, gee, maybe we can raise a campaign against Mondale, you say, stop playing politics. Is that about right? STEVE MCMAHON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No no, no. That's not right at all. First of all, people were asking on Friday, as they will in these kinds of situations, what is going to happen next. And one of the discussions was who might take Senator Wellstone's place because, as you know, Minnesota has a unique law that permits the parties to replace a nominee up to five days before.

So obviously that was a question that was going to be asked. What I thought was interesting was not that the Democrats might turn to an elder statesman, Fritz Mondale, who served the state and the country quite well over a long period of time, but that the Republican attack machine by Sunday morning was out attacking the former vice president on the very issues.

I mean here you had Speaker Gingrich, former Speaker Gingrich on "Meet the Press" attacking vice president -- former Vice President Mondale for wanting to privatize Social Security which, first of all, isn't true and secondly is exactly what Newt Gingrich wants to do.

NOVAK: I think Paul made that point. You know, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, who desperately wants to keep the majority leadership, and he was going to lose that seat because Wellstone was going to lose to Republican Norm Coleman, but let's listen to what Tom Daschle had to say on Sunday on television.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (S-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I was very disappointed with the very negative tone that Mr. Coleman took in this race, far more negative than it had to be. That wasn't Paul Wellstone's style.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: That wasn't Paul Wellstone's style? You know I like PaulWellstone, as I wrote in a column in "The Washington Post" today, but PaulWellstone was just slamming Coleman if you watch those debates. Let me just give you one of myriad quotes by the senator, and we'll put it up on the screen.

"When Coleman says, 'not get it done, -- that means that Wellstone didn't get anything done -- "it depends on who you get it done for. I don't represent the pharmaceutical companies. I don't represent the big financial institutions."

That isn't slamming Coleman?

MCMAHON: It was an aggressive race, there's no question about it.

NOVAK: Then why didn't Daschle say that isn't Paul Wellstone's style?

MCMAHON: Well, I think maybe Senator Daschle is hoping for a different tone going forward. There are seven days left, and wouldn't it be nice if there were no negative ads for last seven days? ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it is because Senator Daschle has the best genuine false sincerity of anyone in the Senate.

BEGALA: You know who doesn't have sincerity, true or false, is Newt Gingrich. Let me show you exactly what he said. I actually, as you know -- we've been in enough campaigns against each other and together -- I like a rough, tough campaign, and I think it is just fine, but it ought to be fair and factual; Gingrich was neither.

Let me read to you what Newt Gingrich, the leading Republican strategist in America, Newt Gingrich. Here is Newt Gingrich right there.

Newt Gingrich said, "Walter Mondale chaired a commission that was for the privatization for Social Security worldwide. He chaired a commission that was for raising the retirement age dramatically."

When he said that in a debate against my friend James Carville, Carville had no idea what the hell he was talking about. Well, guess what? This is what he was talking about: a press release from a group called CSIS, which is the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Mondale did, in fact, co-chair a commission that looked at retirement systems around the country. He specifically -- around the world. He specifically dissented from what they said about Social Security.

Here is the press release from August 29, 2001. Mondale and six co-signers also released a separate statement dissenting from the commission's pension recommendations as they applied to Social Security in the United States. Who it telling Newt Gingrich to go out there and make things up about Walter Mondale? I guess it's Karl Rove, the White House (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CASTELLANOS: Well obviously that can't be true, because, as you said, he's just obviously the leading Republican strategist and no one would tell him what to do.

BEGALA: He's Newt Gingrich. I'm going to say his name 100 times tonight. Get used to it.

CASTELLANOS: I'm really interested to see how minute you have to get to defend Walter Mondale here. Let's get into the he said/she said. Walter Mondale is such a weak candidate that they're delaying announcing the candidacy just as long as possible. The surveys have it as a couple of point race already and this is the best the Democrats can do in that race?

BEGALA: It is a mistake to go out with a charge that is provably false, isn't it, Alex? This is a general matter with Newt Gingrich here.

CASTELLANOS: You have the details on that I think obviously better than I do. But I don't know the facts on that one.

NOVAK: Steve, I'm going to tell you this. This elder statesman, Fritz Mondale, who is a very nice man, by the way, was just a terrible candidate. Most of the time he ran, he was appointed to the office, attorney general, U.S. senator, vice president, and then he ran. But in May 27, 1989, he told his local newspaper something and we'll put it up on the screen.

He said, "I've watched too many friends who stay there in the Senate too long. I vowed when I was in the Senate that I would never be among them."

MCMAHON: And he wasn't. He left.

NOVAK: But how do you square with him going back now?

MCMAHON: Well, on Friday, or apparently sometime this weekend, there was a meeting. And at that meeting, former Vice President Mondale met with Senator Wellstone's oldest surviving son and Senator Wellstone's campaign manager...

(CROSSTALK)

MCMAHON: Well, guess what? They sat him down and they asked him. They said nothing would mean more to my father -- this is the Wellstone's son -- than if you were to pick up the banner here and take it forward and take this to victory.

NOVAK: Then why was CNN reporting that he was going to do that before the meeting took place?

MCMAHON: Well, there was all kinds of speculation about what was going to happen or what wasn't going to happen. What did happened was a meeting with Senator Wellstone's son, where Senator Wellston'es son asked him to please do this. And, by the way, Alex was talking about what a weak candidate he is and what a weak candidacy this is. Let me remind you that the last time he was on the ballot in Minnesota he beat a guy name Ronald Reagan, which was a pretty good candidate himself.

NOVAK: We have to take a break.

Later on CROSSFIRE, the shoving match to get first crack at the sniper suspect. But first, some lessons in smash mouth politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Bush and the Republicans still want to push their privatization plans through Congress. And they will if you let them. Trust me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

The election is one week from tomorrow, which means it is time for political candidates to saturate the airwaves with their dirtiest, nastiest, most desperate commercials. Democratic strategist Steve McMahon and Republican strategist Alex Castellanos are here to help us review some of the year's most watchable political ads.

BEGALA: Now, I have to say, Alex, I confessed in the earlier program to Lou Dobbs that I love these ads. I mean, to me, they're like artwork, maybe because I used to help make them.

Let me show you one of the best of the -- we were talking about Senator Wellstone. He made this ad. He took his opponent's words. And the woman who made this is a woman named Mandy Grinwold (ph), who made all of President Clinton's ads. I want you to take a look at it because it's an homage to you. It's in your style, Alex. One of the best ads of the year by Paul Wellstone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORM COLEMAN, REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE: Paul Wellstone is a Democrat and I am a Democrat. Join me today in common bond in unity as Democrats to ensure the re-election of President Bill Clinton and Senator Paul Wellstone. Paul Wellstone is a Democrat, and I am a Democrat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Now, there is nothing more effective than using someone's words against him with a little bit of humor, right?

CASTELLANOS: Well, obviously that was not Norm Coleman, that was his evil twin. And Ronald Reagan was a Democrat too. But occasionally some Democrats are saved and they find redemption. And obviously that's what has happened to Norm Coleman here.

MCMAHON: It might actually explain why he's doing as well as he's doing in Minnesota, because he's a Democrat, right?

CASTELLANOS: No. Norm Coleman has been a very moderate and centrist fellow in that state. And that's why he is such a strong candidate.

NOVAK: He's a moderate Democrat. He's a moderate Republican now.

CASTELLANOS: That's what he is.

NOVAK: Steve, I want you to watch what I think is the Oscar winner of the commercial of the year, the political commercial of the year. It may not have any effect on the New Jersey Senate election, but let's watch it anyway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, man, I can't do this. I quit. Teacher?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I fail this test, can I have Frank Lautenberg take it for me?

ANNOUNCER: Torricelli and Lautenberg are teaching our children the wrong lessons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I'm losing. I quit. Let Frank Lautenberg play for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Isn't that a terrific ad?

MCMAHON: It is a terrific ad. It is not working, but it is a very funny ad. I mean here is the thing with attack ads. They have to be relevant and they have to be credible.

NOVAK: That's not credible?

MCMAHON: This ad actually is credible because it is leveraging existing perception. Everybody knows what happened in that race. It is not particularly relevant, though, because while the Republicans continue to talk about the switch that was made, the voters don't really care.

What they're concerned about is the future, their economic security, their Social Security. Their concerned about corporate corruption. They're concerned about the surplus turning into a deficit. The same thing that good, right-thinking people are worried about everywhere, right?

CASTELLANOS: How can they be concerned about the future? I mean, Frank Lautenberg, who no one knows, there 18 years, did so little. I mean if the Democrats are not looking back, they're going to the hall of fame for candidates now all around the country.

NOVAK: I guess the idea is that he's a typical senator because he didn't do anything. You might as well put him back there, right?

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: It is relevant because you can bring in a relief pitcher in baseball but you can't do it in boxing. You know it doesn't work that way. In politics, you just can't switch candidates at the end. And there is a jury and the jury will censor you for cheating.

BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), one of the things that is very relevant, actually, if we see now Senator Lautenberg in his 70s going back to work, perhaps Fritz Mondale in his 70s going back to work. Well, the Democratic Party has made an ad about the hundreds of thousands of Americans over the age of 70 who have been forced back to work because of the Bush economy. It is an ad that they call "Starting over." Take a look at it, Alex.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, first day on the new job. Are you ready for the big adventure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready as I'll ever be. ANNOUNCER: $175 billion in savings gone. Over two million jobs lost. Many seniors starting over, looking for work.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, first day on the new job. Ready for the big adventure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready as I'll ever be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Now there is proof, and this is going to resonate, because this is a real fact that hundreds of thousands of Americans had to go back to work, right?

CASTELLANOS: Well, you know, you got us on that one, Paul. I have to confess. You're exactly right. The Clinton administration did a lot for the economy.

I think Al Gore invented the Internet, and Bill Clinton retained every lawyer in America, I think. That created a lot of jobs. But other than that, other than that, what did they do? Not much. They wasted a tremendous amount of prosperity and, look, I think people understand that a lot of that Internet hype and bubble burst. And we got September 11.

(CROSSTALK)

MCMAHON: Relevant and credible.

NOVAK: Let me give you something that is relevant and credible. And that was a lot of whining. Democrats like to whine. But this is really a very good ad by the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which is not a party institution, it's a conservative group. Let's look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle. Tom Daschle and the Daschle Democrats like to say no. No to President Bush on job creating tax cuts. No to President Bush on homeland security. No to President Bush on eliminating the unfair death tax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: What do you think of that? That's pretty good, isn't it?

MCMAHON: It's -- yeah, it is fair to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It's interesting because it's not exactly true, you know. There were 12 Democrats who voted with the president on the $1.35 trillion tax cut which, by the way -- and there two Republicans who voted against the president, which means that that tax bill that they're complaining didn't pass, number one. And passed like 12 Democratic Senate votes.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: As they should have.

MCMAHON: As they should, by the way. I think the 12 who voted for it wished they had voted against it. But the point is...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: With the index today of consumer sentiment coming out at its lowest level in nine years, with now most people in the CNN poll saying they care more about the economy than any other issue, that can't be good for the party in power, can it?

CASTELLANOS: Well, then why have the Democrats reduced to making ads like the previous one we saw, which is the, you know, oh, things are terrible, but have absolutely no agenda. Is there any ad out there with the agenda -- where the Democrats offer an agenda for the country to get us out of this? No. All they offer is higher taxes which drive you back into recession.

BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) two words: vote Democrat.

That has to be the last two words. I'm sorry to do that to you. Hang on for just a minute. We'll take a break.

And when our guests come back, we're going to show them some more of the best, worst and funniest political ads from all across the country. Later, we will get an update on the interstate elbow throwing over where to put the sniper suspects on trial first.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Coming soon to a television near you. One of the main reasons candidates need to raise so much campaign cash: 30-second campaign ads. They make you laugh, they make you cry, they make you vote.

We are joined by two of the best ad makers in the political biz, Republican Strategist Alex Castellanos and Democratic Strategist Steve McMahon.

NOVAK: Steve, if the measurement of a good ad is how mean and vicious it is, this has to be on the top. This was an ad run against Republican state Senator Mike Taylor in Montana, running against the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Max Baucus, Democrat. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: State Senator Mike Taylor one ran a beauty salon and a hair care school until the Department of Education uncovered Taylor's hair care scam for abusing the student loan program and diverting money to himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Now, everybody I talk to believes that this was a covert anti-homosexual, homophobic commercial in a state where homosexuals are not too popular. Do you agree? MCMAHON: No. There is a rule in Montana, however, that the only time a man touches another man's face is with a fist.

NOVAK: You made my point.

MCMAHON: No, it is not homophobic. And what happened there was there was obviously some abuse going on with the student loan system, and Mike Taylor was right in the middle of it.

NOVAK: But that's not what people remember from that ad.

MCMAHON: Well, that's not what Mike Taylor remembers. I mean Mike Taylor said he got out of the race because he was afraid of this innuendo. But why was he so...

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: The next ad was going to be even worse. They were going to accuse him of disco.

BEGALA: Let me show you another. Most of these ads, one of the things they have in common, it turns out, is that they're funny. This may be my very favorite. It's more of a cartoon than a commercial that the Democratic National Committee made about Social Security. Very important, serious issue. But I think they dealt with it with a very light touch. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ever think about your retirement? George W. Bush has. He's been pushing a plan to put your Social Security savings in the stock market. But Bush and the Republicans still want to push their privatization plans through Congress. And they will if you let them. Trust me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Now you've got to admit, Alex, that's hilarious. That's in the style of a generation raised on "Beavis and Butthead" (ph) and "South Park" and all of these hilarious cartoons, right?

CASTELLANOS: It's just as funny, I think, as it is false. I think it is well done, but the point of it is, you know, you're accusing Republicans of basically not having moms and dads and not caring whether people eat dog food. And we ought to get passed that.

It would be nice to have an honest debate about it. But -- and nevertheless it's a cute ad.

MCMAHON: I thought they were accusing the Republicans of wanting to privatize Social Security which, after all, is what Republicans wanted.

NOVAK: That's a Democratic term.

(CROSSTALK) NOVAK: Let me give you the Republican response to that which has the merits of being both funny and accurate. Let's listen to the -- we don't listen to it. Let's watch the Democratic -- the Republican response.

MCMAHON: OK. What do you think of that? That's accurate, isn't it?

It's funny. It's funny what a difference a year makes. The president just a year ago was talking about privatizing Social Security for younger workers and letting them invest their retirement savings in the stock market.

NOVAK: That's what it said on that commercial.

MCMAHON: So why is it the Republicans are so worried about admitting what it is they want to do?

CASTELLANOS: Why don't the Democrats own up to the fact that they're the ones who first attacked Social Security. They're the ones who had spent all the Social Security in 30 years.

NOVAK: So we're out of time. Steve mcmahon --

CASTELLANOS: Brush our cape.

NOVAK: Thank you.

OK, more charges have been filed against the D.C. area sniper suspects. We'll get the details in a minute.

And then we'll look at the tug of war over who gets to be first in pulling this -- these guys into court and into the death chamber.

Alex....

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Not just one, but two Virginia counties got in line today to put the D.C. area sniper suspects on trial. Get out your score cards.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is keeping track of all the charges. She joins us now from our Washington bureau -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as everyone knows, Maryland filed charges on Friday and today was Virginia's turn to stake its claim on prosecuting the two serial sniper suspects. So now we have three counties -- Prince William, Spotsylvania and Hanover filing charges against John Allen Mohammad and John Lee Malvo.

Now, they include two counts of capital murder for the October 9 of Dean William -- Dean Meyers while pumping gas. Now Mohammad was also charges with one count of conspiracy to commit murder and one count of use of a firearm in commission of a felony. Now, the county also announced petitions against Malvo for the same charges. Virtually identical charges were filed earlier in the day in Spotsylvania county for the killing October 11 of Philadelphia businessman Kenneth Bridges. An attempted murder, conspiracy to commit capital murder and aggravated and malicious woundings for the shooting of a woman outside a Michael's craft store on October 4 and the shooting of a man on October 19 in the parking lot of a steakhouse in Ashland, Virginia.

It's very complicated and everyone wrangling for their chance to bring these two to justice -- Bob.

BEGALA: Well, Kathleen, they say possession is 9/10 of the law. Right now these two men are in federal custody. When will they be ready to hand them over to one state or another when they sort that out?

KOCH: That's the million dollar question. They are in federal custody in Baltimore right now and we are hearing that we could learn as soon as tomorrow whether or not the federal government is going to file charges first against them and take these men to trial. That would possibly be for something in the combination of federal firearms charges combined with extortion charges could lead to a death penalty -- federal death penalty.

But of course, Virginia says, We've got a tough death penalty law. We have used it many, many times. We should be the ones to go first.

Maryland says six of the 10 people who were killed were killed in our state. So we should go first. Very tough.

BEGALA: CNN's Kathleen Koch, thank you for that update and that report from our Washington bureau.

Well, as Kathleen told us, first it was Maryland and Alabama, now Virginia's gotten into the act and the feds may join in as well.

So in a minute, we'll ask why the process of bringing the sniper suspects to trial has to look like the scramble for a fumbled football.

And later, our "Quote of the Day."

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We're coming to you live from the George Washington University in beautiful downtown Washington D.C Authorities from Virginia, Maryland, and here in D.C. as well as the federal government keep paying lip service to how well they're working together, but the process of bringing the sniper suspects to trial looks a little more like a game of every man for himself, or maybe even keep away. Is this any way to run a murder trial? Joining us from New York is Court TV anchor and former judge Catherine Crier. She is the author of a new book, "The Case Against Lawyers."

And here with us is James Gilmore, former governor and attorney general of Virginia, now a partner in the law firm of Kelley Drye & Warren. A fine lawyer at that.

JAMES GILMORE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA: Thank you.

NOVAK: Governor Gilmore, I have a little trouble understanding what all of the fuss is about on the state's attorney from Montgomery County, Doug Gansler, announcing -- filing charges, federal government is all upset. Let's listen to what Mr. Gansler actually said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUGLAS GANSLER, STATE ATTORNEY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND: That doesn't mean we're going first, and that doesn't mean we're the only jurisdiction that will prosecute these people. Each and every jurisdiction will have the opportunity to prosecute these two men and to impose what penalty they would like to do. We just want to make sure that we have filed our charges and everyone we think will do the same following us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: That is wrong with that?

GILMORE: Well, I think that the most important point is -- Bob, is that they get together and that they work together to make sure that the cases come in the proper order to the proper trial. You can file a case, you can file in Virginia, you can file in Maryland, but the prosecutors really need to work together to bring the case in the best jurisdiction first, otherwise you could influence the other cases.

NOVAK: What is the best jurisdiction?

GILMORE: Well, I think Virginia is the best jurisdiction, and the reason is that Virginia has the death penalty statute that is a legitimate one. It is one that would allow the 17-year-old to, in fact, potentially face the death penalty. I've asked for the death penalty myself in situations like that when I was a prosecutor in Virginia, whereas in Maryland, a 17-year-old can't get the death penalty. All we're really saying here is that a jury of their peers ought to have the ability to make a decision about the life or death decision against these people. That ought to be afforded to the jury.

BEGALA: Catherine Crier, why should we care, or is this politicians and prosecutors trying to leap for headlines?

CATHERINE CRIER, ANCHOR, COURT TV: Well, obviously, there is some leaping for headlines going on here. The only thing I think we really need to worry about is the feds taking the case first, because they would try all of them together, then double jeopardy would apply in every other area -- possibly Alabama would not be included with that, but if one of the states goes first, then each one, each county can obviously go after these guys.

My problem is Virginia has one shooting in one county, one shooting in another, and Montgomery County, the county most hit by this, six killings could go forward with all six in one case. Also, this has been the source of the initial investigation and most of the work, so in terms of the effort put into this, you have got most of that occurring in Montgomery County. It seems the logical place, and I ask myself, why should we be picking and choosing based upon the death penalty when we ought to look at where the crimes occurred, go forward on that basis, and if they want to pursue further cases in Virginia or Alabama, they can do so after the fact.

NOVAK: Governor?

GILMORE: Well, that's not -- first of all, it is right about the double jeopardy issue. You have to handle that like a hand grenade, and if the federal people went first, they could potentially block out Virginia and Maryland or anybody else from any potential case, so that's right. But it is not right to say that there were just more shootings in Maryland than in Virginia. There were five people injured in Virginia. This isn't the issue.

All of these victims have equal dignity. What is important is to make sure that the best case goes forward at the best location under the best statute, because you don't want to try the case in a worse jurisdiction with a worse statute in a worse case, end up with a bad result, and then go back to your good jurisdiction and then try to make your case.

(CROSSTALK)

CRIER: Let me make something clear here. I didn't say that there was five was less than six. I said Virginia is in a situation where you are going to have one shooting in one county, one shooting in another county, one shooting in another county, versus all six that can be presented to a single jury, assuming you're going forward on the spree theory to that Montgomery County jury.

GILMORE: That's right. You can make a case for trying all the Virginia cases first, as a matter of fact, in three or four jurisdictions and get that resolved.

NOVAK: Catherine, I think the American people want these people to get the death penalty if they're guilty, and I want to show you a couple polls that CNN-"TIME" took just last week. Death penalty for John Muhammad if convicted of murder, 72 percent favor, 23 oppose. Death penalty for John Malvo, who is described as a juvenile, though he is 17 years old, if convicted, favor 51 percent, oppose 43. On the basis of that, Catherine, isn't it contrary to what you suggested, isn't it important to put this case in a place where the death penalty is most likely to be the end result...

CRIER: Are we really going to decide on a jurisdiction based upon a poll? Bob, really, let's not get that far. Besides, although you have had a moratorium in Maryland, they certainly can impose the death penalty, assuming this was a spree, and four of those killings occurred within a two and a half hour period in Montgomery County, I would go under the theory this was a spree, he could get the death penalty. You may well get Malvo to turn on this guy, and I think a lot of the evidence is coming forward, or insinuations are that he may -- he may come out as not empathetic or sympathetic, but someone who was tremendously influenced. The prosecution might want to turn the 17-year-old, give him a very serious sentence, but not pursue the death penalty.

BEGALA: Well, governor, if it is all about the death penalty, why don't we just take -- go Fedex Field, where the Redskins play, let everybody who wants to come...

CRIER: Yes, absolutely.

BEGALA: ... who is that bloodthirsty, come and just chop their heads off like the Taliban? Are we no better than the doggone Taliban here?

GILMORE: And let me say something. It is very ironic here, as governor and prosecutor and so on, there was this big pull against the death penalty, a big pull against it. It has been going on for years, it has been completely unreasonable, completely ridiculous.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: It is not silly, that's murder.

GILMORE: It is just -- not, it is not. A, it is not true, and B, it is just not a way that you run a criminal justice system. But the most important point is, now all of a sudden, it is our malls and our kids and now all of a sudden the death penalty looks like it might make a little more sense.

(CROSSTALK)

CRIER: I got to jump in there because your numbers are completely wrong. In fact, there has been a push in recent years because of these moratoriums, because of Governor Ryan reviewing 140 out of 164 cases, but in fact, the number shifted a couple of percentage points from about 73 percent favoring it to 66. I don't think the death penalty was threatened in this country. But in fact, in fact, life without parole, we have executed innocent people. We will execute innocent people.

GILMORE: No. No. The law is not -- the law and the cases are not being influenced by polls. They're being influenced by the pressure that is being put on the system by anti-death penalty people, and now all of a sudden, we have a legitimate case that we should warrant the death penalty, and now everybody wants -- is in favor of it. Well, I think that's right, and I think the cases ought to be determined in the best jurisdictions with the best laws and the best case.

CRIER: Well, no matter what happens, if, in fact, they do occur in Montgomery County first, you can draw your blood as Alabama can draw their blood. There is no prohibition against you following, and there is an excellent case to be made with those six killings in Montgomery County.

GILMORE: That's not right either.

NOVAK: I want to ask one more (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- Catherine Crier, I want to ask you this, Governor Glendening of Maryland put this moratorium on. He got a lot of positive approval from the liberals for doing that in the state of Maryland. Now he says, to this case, the moratorium doesn't apply. Can you explain that?

CRIER: Well, obviously he was following what a good Republican governor, Governor Ryan did in Illinois, and that was concern based upon certain reviews that there may be people, not just technically not guilty, but innocent sitting on his death row, and that's why he put a hold on to review these cases. He's apparently saying that if this goes through, and we prosecute this and I'm satisfied, having heard all of the evidence, that this is an appropriate death penalty case, I would lift the moratorium.

NOVAK: Quickly, Jim.

GILMORE: Bob, very quickly, as a prosecutor you don't want to go to a court first, end up with a life sentence or an acquittal in the wrong jurisdiction and then try to take it to your best jurisdiction. You don't want to prosecute that way, and these people have to get together.

NOVAK: Jim Gilmore, thank you very much. Catherine Crier, thank you.

Coming up, your chance to "Fireback" at us. One of our viewers has a challenge for Paul Begala's ability to blame everything, everything on George W. Bush.

But next, our "Quote of the Day" is a reality check the Democratic Party really shouldn't ignore, but it probably will.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Fritz Mondale has a record for calling them like he sees them. How many other presidential candidates uses their acceptance speech at the convince to promise a tax increase like good old Fritz did in 1984? Suicidal, but honest. But before they rush off to make Mondale Minnesota's Senate candidate, maybe the Democratic party should heed their hero's advice way back in May of 1989. It's our "Quote of the Day."

Quote, "One of the requirements of a healthy party is that it renews itself. You can't keep running Walter Mondale for everything."

BEGALA: You know, that was 13 years ago. That's a cheap shot that the Republican National Committee's been trying to pass around. We know what happened. Mondale retired from the Senate and then Senator Wellstone died. His children came to him, asked him to consider this and he's considering it. And for the Republicans to reach back 13 years ago when Paul Wellstone wasn't even yet in the Senate, it's just a cheap shot.

Next, one of our viewers fires back a suggestion about who should really be running the country. You won't believe who it is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for "Fireback." We have an extraordinary amount of e-mail about the late and lamented Paul Wellstone.

John Smith of Chester, Arkansas wrote: "Paul, I want to commend you and the staff at CROSSFIRE for the timely, sensitive and revealing tribute to Paul Wellstone. He was a great man, a champion for the little guys."

Mr. Smith, it was the staff, not the hosts and they don't get enough appreciation, our staff here. But what they don't get in pay, we make up in abuse. So thank you for that, though. They're good people. They work hard.

NOVAK: OK, the next e-mail's from Ramsey of Gurnee, Illinois. He says, "You're awesome, Bob-o. Your views are really humane. From the Middle East to corporate scandals, you are always right. I just don't understand why you aren't running our country."

And, Ramsey, I think you may be a little sarcastic, but on the advance that you're not being sarcastic, I appreciate the confidence.

BEGALA: Absolutely.

Troy in Austin, Texas, my hometown: "I am ashamed to say that Paul Begala's from my state." Well thanks, Troy. "No matter what the topic or issue is, he blames President Bush. If my cat got stuck in a tree, he would somehow find a way to blame Bush."

No, Troy. If President Bush gets his environmental programs passed in a Republican Senate, there'll be no trees for your cat to get stuck in.

NOVAK: You know, I wrote that for Troy.

OK, Bob Hanson of Carson, Washington writes: "Bob Novak thinks he should be able to drive as fast as he wants, that Dick Armey is one of the best economists and that a national sales tax is preferable to an income tax. Fine routine for comedy clubs. Take it on the road, Bob."

Well, Bob Hanson, if you think that's funny (UNINTELLIGIBLE) reduce government and individual economic freedom. How about them apples?

First question.

QUESTION: Yes, Chris Etenharris (ph) from the U.K. Regarding Walter Mondale, I thought that the Democrats were against seniors having to return to work.

BEGALA: Well we actually don't want to force them to the way President Bush has with his crummy economy, but when there is a tragedy like this, I think it is wonderful that a guy, if he will do it, will answer the call to service.

NOVAK: They're desperate and trying to find a candidate and that's all they can find.

BEGALA: Then there's nobody better.

Yes, sir?

QUESTION: Hello, my name's Dominick (ph) from Washington, D.C. I'm wondering is there any subject that would be considered off-limits in a political campaign, for example, using the sniper case in an ad about gun control?

NOVAK: That's really -- it's really terrible. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, using her family and the sniper case and her desperate effort to be elected governor of Maryland is disgusting.

BEGALA: It's a legitimate issue. Of course, her father was murdered by an assassin. Her father was Robert F. Kennedy. It's a legitimate because the Republican candidate there, Robert Ehrlich, opposed every form of common sense law enforcement supported gun rules and regulations. So it's very legitimate issue.

NOVAK: Next question.

QUESTION: My name is John. I'm from San Diego. And my question is for Bob Novak. Do you think that the Democrats will ever be able to stop attacking the Republicans and ever gain an agenda of their own?

NOVAK: No they have lost it. I've been around a long time. The Democrats used to really have an agenda. It was ridiculous and would ruin the country, but it was at least an agenda. Now all they can do is attack. Thanks to my dear friends Paul Begala and James Carville.

BEGALA: Well in truth Paul Begala and James Carville helped elect Bill Clinton. Had a hell of an agenda. Created 22.8 million new jobs. It gave us the largest surplus in American history cleaning up from the Republicans' deficit. I could go on and on all night. That's the Democrats' agenda: a strong economy for the middle class.

From the left, I am Paul Begala. Good night from CROSSFIRE.

NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT" begins right now.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Political Ads of 2002>


Aired October 28, 2002 - 19:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE: On the left: James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right: Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE tonight: remembering the dead with an eye on the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D), CONNECTICUT: A wonderful tribute to Paul Wellstone's memory that somebody of this stature and principle of Walter Mondale would now pick up the fallen torch and carry forward to Election Day and into...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: But, should Walter Mondale say yes?

It's time to get rough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Using scare tactics to get votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNER: They aren't playing nice, and you'll just love it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... working longer. But Bush and the Republicans still want to push their privatization plans through Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: We've got the best, funniest and dirtiest political ads of 2002.

Plus, the suspects are locked up. Now what do they do with them?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We intend to prosecute the 17-year-old as an adult. (END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: The legal strategies and political infighting. Ahead on CROSSFIRE.

From the George Washington University: Paul Begala and Robert Novak.

ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

Tonight, should the Democratic Party change its motto to "forward into the past?"

Also, we're finally going keep our promise to show you some of this year's best political ads.

But first, as we do every day, let's start with the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."

Walter Frederick Fritz Mondale, remember him? Apparently not that many Minnesota voters do. Ever since Senator Paul Wellstone died in a plane crash last Friday, a nonstop publicity campaign has boosted the former vice president as the new Democratic Senate candidate. Republicans cringed, but their statewide polls shows GOP candidate Norm Coleman running only two points behind Mondale.

Remember Mondale has not been a Minnesota candidate since 1972 and hasn't been on the Minnesota ballot since 1984. That's when he ran for president and carried only Minnesota all of the states by a tiny margin. He wasn't much of a candidate then. Now, he's 74-years- old and he looks it.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: I can't believe the party of Ronald Reagan and Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms -- oh, by the way, Bob Novak. I'm living proof that you can be in a debate with somebody 70 and still get your ass kicked, Bob. And that's what's going to happen to the Republicans when they get to the Senate.

Well, the Wellstone family of course is grief stricken. They spent the day burying Senator Paul Wellstone, his wife Sheila and their daughter Marcia. But the Republican attack machine did not take the day off.

Led by Newt Gingrich, Republicans have been busy savaging Walter Mondale, the respected former vice president and likely Wellstone successor. Speaker Gingrich accused former Vice President Mondale of supporting the privatization of Social Security. That, of course, is completely false. In fact, Mondale served on a commission that studied retirement programs around the world and he specifically dissented from the recommendation to privatize Social Security.

Yesterday, Norm Coleman, the Republican who has been attacking Wellstone now for months, told reporters that the people of Minnesota still need a little time to mourn before the Senate campaign resumes. CNN has learned, however, that Coleman's campaign has already found time to cut some new political ads. NOVAK: Let me get this straight if I can, please, Paul. That the idea is you can have Joe Lieberman coming out and saying, boy, we are going to elect Joe Lieberman to be in the Paul Wellstone tradition -- I mean, we're going elect Fritz Mondale to be in the Paul Wellstone tradition, but if you say that's not a good idea, you're being a vicious politician.

Just two weeks ago California's democratic Governor Gray Davis announced his campaign would run no more negative ads against Republican candidate Bill Simon. That sure didn't last long. Just one week later, last Friday, Davis began running a TV ad attacking Simon's record as a businessman. Why the switch?

Davis campaign manager, Gary South (ph), said it was a response to Simon's negative ads, which were surely expected anyway. Maybe Gray Davis, a serial negative attacker in politics, just couldn't resist clubbing his opponent or could it be that he's not as confident of winning November 5 as he claims?

BEGALA: I love negative ads as long as they are factual and fair and on the record. And these all seem to be all of that. So I say good for gray Davis. Club away.

"The St. Petersburg Times" reports that Florida Governor Jeb Bush has holdings in companies that have a stake in the policies he helps to decide. Experienced trust attorneys who reviewed the governor's trust for "The St. Petersburg Times" said that Mr. Bush's trust is far from blind and that the governor could still direct investments through a third party.

One Bush investment was in an oil drilling company that bid on an offshore drilling lease that became available only after Governor Bush reached a compromise with the federal government that allowed drilling off the Florida coast. Now, I'm sure Mr. Bush was just as independent and unbiased in his decisions that affected his investments as, say, Katherine Harris was during the Florida recount.

NOVAK: Paul, "The St. Petersburg Times" is the most liberal paper in Florida, which has endorsed Mr. McBride, Governor Bush's opponent. The stock they're talking about is in a mutual fund that was purchased for him. You can't have a blind trust under the law in Florida because of the transparency law. And I think it is generally agreed that Governor Bush has done more than any other previous governor of Florida to separate his private investments from his public decisions.

Senator John Edwards, once the brightest new Democratic candidate for president, has become known for his political gaffes. "U.S. News" reports that Edward's campaigning in New Hampshire recently called on the state's voters to elect Democratic Governor Jeanne Shaheen to the U.S. Senate to repeal the Bush tax cuts. Uh-oh, Shaheen is against repeal of the Bush tax cuts. So is Senate Democratic -- so is Democratic Senator Tim Johnson fighting for his life in South Dakota. So are most Democratic candidates who face a contested election on November 5.

Can the Democratic leaders ever learn that Americans just don't like taxes?

BEGALA: Can the Republicans ever learn that Americans can't stand these Bush deficits? We're going to have to do something about them. It's either going to be tax breaks for the rich that go away or our deficit that gets bigger. I would rather raise taxes on Mr. Novak and me, because we're rich.

The University of Michigan's index of consumer sentiment slumped to its lowest level since 1993, which of course means Americans are far less confident of President Bush's economic stewardship than they were of President Clinton's policies. And the latest CNN-"USA Today " Gallup Poll shows that it is still the economy, stupid. The economy is far and away the leading issue in next week's elections, outpacing terrorism by almost two to one and Iraq by more than four to one.

Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts has come up with a novel way to link both the economy and the war on Iraq. He says we should simply send the Bush economic team to Baghdad. They'd have Iraq on its knees in no time.

NOVAK: You know, Paul, I know you get around the country a little bit, and so do I. This doesn't look like people are worried about the economy. The restaurants are filled with middle class Americans. Now, you Democrats have been trying to stir up public anxiety for all year and you only got a week left to do it.

BEGALA: Well, once that week is over, we'll have full control of the House and the Senate. We'll be able to unwind some of these Bush policies.

Well, Americans, of course, have a long tradition of summoning some of their elder statesman back to serve in the United States Senate. Democrat Hubert Humphrey and Republican Barry Goldwater come to mind in the recent past. Now, after the tragic death of Paul Wellstone, the senator's sons and leading Democrats across Minnesota, are calling on former Senator, former Ambassador and former Vice President and president candidate Walter Mondale.

Mondale has said he'll announce a decision after tomorrow night's memorial service for Senator Wellstone. That hasn't stopped the GOP attack machine, and of course it won't stop CROSSFIRE from analyzing the likely Coleman-Mondale race.

We have two of the best in the business to talk about it tonight: Democratic strategist Steve McMahon and Republican Alex Castellanos.

(APPLAUSE)

NOVAK: Steve, let me see if I can understand this. The body was not even cold on Friday when the Democrats started saying we got to have Fritz Mondale to run. Senator Lieberman -- we ran the sound bite -- says we got to have Fritz Mondale to carry on the tradition of PaulWellstone. And the minute the Republicans say, gee, maybe we can raise a campaign against Mondale, you say, stop playing politics. Is that about right? STEVE MCMAHON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No no, no. That's not right at all. First of all, people were asking on Friday, as they will in these kinds of situations, what is going to happen next. And one of the discussions was who might take Senator Wellstone's place because, as you know, Minnesota has a unique law that permits the parties to replace a nominee up to five days before.

So obviously that was a question that was going to be asked. What I thought was interesting was not that the Democrats might turn to an elder statesman, Fritz Mondale, who served the state and the country quite well over a long period of time, but that the Republican attack machine by Sunday morning was out attacking the former vice president on the very issues.

I mean here you had Speaker Gingrich, former Speaker Gingrich on "Meet the Press" attacking vice president -- former Vice President Mondale for wanting to privatize Social Security which, first of all, isn't true and secondly is exactly what Newt Gingrich wants to do.

NOVAK: I think Paul made that point. You know, Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, who desperately wants to keep the majority leadership, and he was going to lose that seat because Wellstone was going to lose to Republican Norm Coleman, but let's listen to what Tom Daschle had to say on Sunday on television.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TOM DASCHLE (S-SD), MAJORITY LEADER: I was very disappointed with the very negative tone that Mr. Coleman took in this race, far more negative than it had to be. That wasn't Paul Wellstone's style.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: That wasn't Paul Wellstone's style? You know I like PaulWellstone, as I wrote in a column in "The Washington Post" today, but PaulWellstone was just slamming Coleman if you watch those debates. Let me just give you one of myriad quotes by the senator, and we'll put it up on the screen.

"When Coleman says, 'not get it done, -- that means that Wellstone didn't get anything done -- "it depends on who you get it done for. I don't represent the pharmaceutical companies. I don't represent the big financial institutions."

That isn't slamming Coleman?

MCMAHON: It was an aggressive race, there's no question about it.

NOVAK: Then why didn't Daschle say that isn't Paul Wellstone's style?

MCMAHON: Well, I think maybe Senator Daschle is hoping for a different tone going forward. There are seven days left, and wouldn't it be nice if there were no negative ads for last seven days? ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think it is because Senator Daschle has the best genuine false sincerity of anyone in the Senate.

BEGALA: You know who doesn't have sincerity, true or false, is Newt Gingrich. Let me show you exactly what he said. I actually, as you know -- we've been in enough campaigns against each other and together -- I like a rough, tough campaign, and I think it is just fine, but it ought to be fair and factual; Gingrich was neither.

Let me read to you what Newt Gingrich, the leading Republican strategist in America, Newt Gingrich. Here is Newt Gingrich right there.

Newt Gingrich said, "Walter Mondale chaired a commission that was for the privatization for Social Security worldwide. He chaired a commission that was for raising the retirement age dramatically."

When he said that in a debate against my friend James Carville, Carville had no idea what the hell he was talking about. Well, guess what? This is what he was talking about: a press release from a group called CSIS, which is the Center for Strategic and International Studies. Mondale did, in fact, co-chair a commission that looked at retirement systems around the country. He specifically -- around the world. He specifically dissented from what they said about Social Security.

Here is the press release from August 29, 2001. Mondale and six co-signers also released a separate statement dissenting from the commission's pension recommendations as they applied to Social Security in the United States. Who it telling Newt Gingrich to go out there and make things up about Walter Mondale? I guess it's Karl Rove, the White House (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

CASTELLANOS: Well obviously that can't be true, because, as you said, he's just obviously the leading Republican strategist and no one would tell him what to do.

BEGALA: He's Newt Gingrich. I'm going to say his name 100 times tonight. Get used to it.

CASTELLANOS: I'm really interested to see how minute you have to get to defend Walter Mondale here. Let's get into the he said/she said. Walter Mondale is such a weak candidate that they're delaying announcing the candidacy just as long as possible. The surveys have it as a couple of point race already and this is the best the Democrats can do in that race?

BEGALA: It is a mistake to go out with a charge that is provably false, isn't it, Alex? This is a general matter with Newt Gingrich here.

CASTELLANOS: You have the details on that I think obviously better than I do. But I don't know the facts on that one.

NOVAK: Steve, I'm going to tell you this. This elder statesman, Fritz Mondale, who is a very nice man, by the way, was just a terrible candidate. Most of the time he ran, he was appointed to the office, attorney general, U.S. senator, vice president, and then he ran. But in May 27, 1989, he told his local newspaper something and we'll put it up on the screen.

He said, "I've watched too many friends who stay there in the Senate too long. I vowed when I was in the Senate that I would never be among them."

MCMAHON: And he wasn't. He left.

NOVAK: But how do you square with him going back now?

MCMAHON: Well, on Friday, or apparently sometime this weekend, there was a meeting. And at that meeting, former Vice President Mondale met with Senator Wellstone's oldest surviving son and Senator Wellstone's campaign manager...

(CROSSTALK)

MCMAHON: Well, guess what? They sat him down and they asked him. They said nothing would mean more to my father -- this is the Wellstone's son -- than if you were to pick up the banner here and take it forward and take this to victory.

NOVAK: Then why was CNN reporting that he was going to do that before the meeting took place?

MCMAHON: Well, there was all kinds of speculation about what was going to happen or what wasn't going to happen. What did happened was a meeting with Senator Wellstone's son, where Senator Wellston'es son asked him to please do this. And, by the way, Alex was talking about what a weak candidate he is and what a weak candidacy this is. Let me remind you that the last time he was on the ballot in Minnesota he beat a guy name Ronald Reagan, which was a pretty good candidate himself.

NOVAK: We have to take a break.

Later on CROSSFIRE, the shoving match to get first crack at the sniper suspect. But first, some lessons in smash mouth politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Bush and the Republicans still want to push their privatization plans through Congress. And they will if you let them. Trust me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

The election is one week from tomorrow, which means it is time for political candidates to saturate the airwaves with their dirtiest, nastiest, most desperate commercials. Democratic strategist Steve McMahon and Republican strategist Alex Castellanos are here to help us review some of the year's most watchable political ads.

BEGALA: Now, I have to say, Alex, I confessed in the earlier program to Lou Dobbs that I love these ads. I mean, to me, they're like artwork, maybe because I used to help make them.

Let me show you one of the best of the -- we were talking about Senator Wellstone. He made this ad. He took his opponent's words. And the woman who made this is a woman named Mandy Grinwold (ph), who made all of President Clinton's ads. I want you to take a look at it because it's an homage to you. It's in your style, Alex. One of the best ads of the year by Paul Wellstone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORM COLEMAN, REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE: Paul Wellstone is a Democrat and I am a Democrat. Join me today in common bond in unity as Democrats to ensure the re-election of President Bill Clinton and Senator Paul Wellstone. Paul Wellstone is a Democrat, and I am a Democrat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Now, there is nothing more effective than using someone's words against him with a little bit of humor, right?

CASTELLANOS: Well, obviously that was not Norm Coleman, that was his evil twin. And Ronald Reagan was a Democrat too. But occasionally some Democrats are saved and they find redemption. And obviously that's what has happened to Norm Coleman here.

MCMAHON: It might actually explain why he's doing as well as he's doing in Minnesota, because he's a Democrat, right?

CASTELLANOS: No. Norm Coleman has been a very moderate and centrist fellow in that state. And that's why he is such a strong candidate.

NOVAK: He's a moderate Democrat. He's a moderate Republican now.

CASTELLANOS: That's what he is.

NOVAK: Steve, I want you to watch what I think is the Oscar winner of the commercial of the year, the political commercial of the year. It may not have any effect on the New Jersey Senate election, but let's watch it anyway.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, man, I can't do this. I quit. Teacher?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I fail this test, can I have Frank Lautenberg take it for me?

ANNOUNCER: Torricelli and Lautenberg are teaching our children the wrong lessons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, I'm losing. I quit. Let Frank Lautenberg play for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Isn't that a terrific ad?

MCMAHON: It is a terrific ad. It is not working, but it is a very funny ad. I mean here is the thing with attack ads. They have to be relevant and they have to be credible.

NOVAK: That's not credible?

MCMAHON: This ad actually is credible because it is leveraging existing perception. Everybody knows what happened in that race. It is not particularly relevant, though, because while the Republicans continue to talk about the switch that was made, the voters don't really care.

What they're concerned about is the future, their economic security, their Social Security. Their concerned about corporate corruption. They're concerned about the surplus turning into a deficit. The same thing that good, right-thinking people are worried about everywhere, right?

CASTELLANOS: How can they be concerned about the future? I mean, Frank Lautenberg, who no one knows, there 18 years, did so little. I mean if the Democrats are not looking back, they're going to the hall of fame for candidates now all around the country.

NOVAK: I guess the idea is that he's a typical senator because he didn't do anything. You might as well put him back there, right?

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: It is relevant because you can bring in a relief pitcher in baseball but you can't do it in boxing. You know it doesn't work that way. In politics, you just can't switch candidates at the end. And there is a jury and the jury will censor you for cheating.

BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE), one of the things that is very relevant, actually, if we see now Senator Lautenberg in his 70s going back to work, perhaps Fritz Mondale in his 70s going back to work. Well, the Democratic Party has made an ad about the hundreds of thousands of Americans over the age of 70 who have been forced back to work because of the Bush economy. It is an ad that they call "Starting over." Take a look at it, Alex.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, first day on the new job. Are you ready for the big adventure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready as I'll ever be. ANNOUNCER: $175 billion in savings gone. Over two million jobs lost. Many seniors starting over, looking for work.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, first day on the new job. Ready for the big adventure?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready as I'll ever be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Now there is proof, and this is going to resonate, because this is a real fact that hundreds of thousands of Americans had to go back to work, right?

CASTELLANOS: Well, you know, you got us on that one, Paul. I have to confess. You're exactly right. The Clinton administration did a lot for the economy.

I think Al Gore invented the Internet, and Bill Clinton retained every lawyer in America, I think. That created a lot of jobs. But other than that, other than that, what did they do? Not much. They wasted a tremendous amount of prosperity and, look, I think people understand that a lot of that Internet hype and bubble burst. And we got September 11.

(CROSSTALK)

MCMAHON: Relevant and credible.

NOVAK: Let me give you something that is relevant and credible. And that was a lot of whining. Democrats like to whine. But this is really a very good ad by the (UNINTELLIGIBLE), which is not a party institution, it's a conservative group. Let's look at it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle. Tom Daschle and the Daschle Democrats like to say no. No to President Bush on job creating tax cuts. No to President Bush on homeland security. No to President Bush on eliminating the unfair death tax.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: What do you think of that? That's pretty good, isn't it?

MCMAHON: It's -- yeah, it is fair to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). It's interesting because it's not exactly true, you know. There were 12 Democrats who voted with the president on the $1.35 trillion tax cut which, by the way -- and there two Republicans who voted against the president, which means that that tax bill that they're complaining didn't pass, number one. And passed like 12 Democratic Senate votes.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: As they should have.

MCMAHON: As they should, by the way. I think the 12 who voted for it wished they had voted against it. But the point is...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: With the index today of consumer sentiment coming out at its lowest level in nine years, with now most people in the CNN poll saying they care more about the economy than any other issue, that can't be good for the party in power, can it?

CASTELLANOS: Well, then why have the Democrats reduced to making ads like the previous one we saw, which is the, you know, oh, things are terrible, but have absolutely no agenda. Is there any ad out there with the agenda -- where the Democrats offer an agenda for the country to get us out of this? No. All they offer is higher taxes which drive you back into recession.

BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) two words: vote Democrat.

That has to be the last two words. I'm sorry to do that to you. Hang on for just a minute. We'll take a break.

And when our guests come back, we're going to show them some more of the best, worst and funniest political ads from all across the country. Later, we will get an update on the interstate elbow throwing over where to put the sniper suspects on trial first.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Coming soon to a television near you. One of the main reasons candidates need to raise so much campaign cash: 30-second campaign ads. They make you laugh, they make you cry, they make you vote.

We are joined by two of the best ad makers in the political biz, Republican Strategist Alex Castellanos and Democratic Strategist Steve McMahon.

NOVAK: Steve, if the measurement of a good ad is how mean and vicious it is, this has to be on the top. This was an ad run against Republican state Senator Mike Taylor in Montana, running against the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee, Max Baucus, Democrat. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: State Senator Mike Taylor one ran a beauty salon and a hair care school until the Department of Education uncovered Taylor's hair care scam for abusing the student loan program and diverting money to himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: Now, everybody I talk to believes that this was a covert anti-homosexual, homophobic commercial in a state where homosexuals are not too popular. Do you agree? MCMAHON: No. There is a rule in Montana, however, that the only time a man touches another man's face is with a fist.

NOVAK: You made my point.

MCMAHON: No, it is not homophobic. And what happened there was there was obviously some abuse going on with the student loan system, and Mike Taylor was right in the middle of it.

NOVAK: But that's not what people remember from that ad.

MCMAHON: Well, that's not what Mike Taylor remembers. I mean Mike Taylor said he got out of the race because he was afraid of this innuendo. But why was he so...

(CROSSTALK)

CASTELLANOS: The next ad was going to be even worse. They were going to accuse him of disco.

BEGALA: Let me show you another. Most of these ads, one of the things they have in common, it turns out, is that they're funny. This may be my very favorite. It's more of a cartoon than a commercial that the Democratic National Committee made about Social Security. Very important, serious issue. But I think they dealt with it with a very light touch. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ever think about your retirement? George W. Bush has. He's been pushing a plan to put your Social Security savings in the stock market. But Bush and the Republicans still want to push their privatization plans through Congress. And they will if you let them. Trust me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Now you've got to admit, Alex, that's hilarious. That's in the style of a generation raised on "Beavis and Butthead" (ph) and "South Park" and all of these hilarious cartoons, right?

CASTELLANOS: It's just as funny, I think, as it is false. I think it is well done, but the point of it is, you know, you're accusing Republicans of basically not having moms and dads and not caring whether people eat dog food. And we ought to get passed that.

It would be nice to have an honest debate about it. But -- and nevertheless it's a cute ad.

MCMAHON: I thought they were accusing the Republicans of wanting to privatize Social Security which, after all, is what Republicans wanted.

NOVAK: That's a Democratic term.

(CROSSTALK) NOVAK: Let me give you the Republican response to that which has the merits of being both funny and accurate. Let's listen to the -- we don't listen to it. Let's watch the Democratic -- the Republican response.

MCMAHON: OK. What do you think of that? That's accurate, isn't it?

It's funny. It's funny what a difference a year makes. The president just a year ago was talking about privatizing Social Security for younger workers and letting them invest their retirement savings in the stock market.

NOVAK: That's what it said on that commercial.

MCMAHON: So why is it the Republicans are so worried about admitting what it is they want to do?

CASTELLANOS: Why don't the Democrats own up to the fact that they're the ones who first attacked Social Security. They're the ones who had spent all the Social Security in 30 years.

NOVAK: So we're out of time. Steve mcmahon --

CASTELLANOS: Brush our cape.

NOVAK: Thank you.

OK, more charges have been filed against the D.C. area sniper suspects. We'll get the details in a minute.

And then we'll look at the tug of war over who gets to be first in pulling this -- these guys into court and into the death chamber.

Alex....

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Not just one, but two Virginia counties got in line today to put the D.C. area sniper suspects on trial. Get out your score cards.

CNN's Kathleen Koch is keeping track of all the charges. She joins us now from our Washington bureau -- Kathleen.

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, as everyone knows, Maryland filed charges on Friday and today was Virginia's turn to stake its claim on prosecuting the two serial sniper suspects. So now we have three counties -- Prince William, Spotsylvania and Hanover filing charges against John Allen Mohammad and John Lee Malvo.

Now, they include two counts of capital murder for the October 9 of Dean William -- Dean Meyers while pumping gas. Now Mohammad was also charges with one count of conspiracy to commit murder and one count of use of a firearm in commission of a felony. Now, the county also announced petitions against Malvo for the same charges. Virtually identical charges were filed earlier in the day in Spotsylvania county for the killing October 11 of Philadelphia businessman Kenneth Bridges. An attempted murder, conspiracy to commit capital murder and aggravated and malicious woundings for the shooting of a woman outside a Michael's craft store on October 4 and the shooting of a man on October 19 in the parking lot of a steakhouse in Ashland, Virginia.

It's very complicated and everyone wrangling for their chance to bring these two to justice -- Bob.

BEGALA: Well, Kathleen, they say possession is 9/10 of the law. Right now these two men are in federal custody. When will they be ready to hand them over to one state or another when they sort that out?

KOCH: That's the million dollar question. They are in federal custody in Baltimore right now and we are hearing that we could learn as soon as tomorrow whether or not the federal government is going to file charges first against them and take these men to trial. That would possibly be for something in the combination of federal firearms charges combined with extortion charges could lead to a death penalty -- federal death penalty.

But of course, Virginia says, We've got a tough death penalty law. We have used it many, many times. We should be the ones to go first.

Maryland says six of the 10 people who were killed were killed in our state. So we should go first. Very tough.

BEGALA: CNN's Kathleen Koch, thank you for that update and that report from our Washington bureau.

Well, as Kathleen told us, first it was Maryland and Alabama, now Virginia's gotten into the act and the feds may join in as well.

So in a minute, we'll ask why the process of bringing the sniper suspects to trial has to look like the scramble for a fumbled football.

And later, our "Quote of the Day."

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. We're coming to you live from the George Washington University in beautiful downtown Washington D.C Authorities from Virginia, Maryland, and here in D.C. as well as the federal government keep paying lip service to how well they're working together, but the process of bringing the sniper suspects to trial looks a little more like a game of every man for himself, or maybe even keep away. Is this any way to run a murder trial? Joining us from New York is Court TV anchor and former judge Catherine Crier. She is the author of a new book, "The Case Against Lawyers."

And here with us is James Gilmore, former governor and attorney general of Virginia, now a partner in the law firm of Kelley Drye & Warren. A fine lawyer at that.

JAMES GILMORE, FORMER GOVERNOR OF VIRGINIA: Thank you.

NOVAK: Governor Gilmore, I have a little trouble understanding what all of the fuss is about on the state's attorney from Montgomery County, Doug Gansler, announcing -- filing charges, federal government is all upset. Let's listen to what Mr. Gansler actually said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUGLAS GANSLER, STATE ATTORNEY, MONTGOMERY COUNTY, MARYLAND: That doesn't mean we're going first, and that doesn't mean we're the only jurisdiction that will prosecute these people. Each and every jurisdiction will have the opportunity to prosecute these two men and to impose what penalty they would like to do. We just want to make sure that we have filed our charges and everyone we think will do the same following us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NOVAK: That is wrong with that?

GILMORE: Well, I think that the most important point is -- Bob, is that they get together and that they work together to make sure that the cases come in the proper order to the proper trial. You can file a case, you can file in Virginia, you can file in Maryland, but the prosecutors really need to work together to bring the case in the best jurisdiction first, otherwise you could influence the other cases.

NOVAK: What is the best jurisdiction?

GILMORE: Well, I think Virginia is the best jurisdiction, and the reason is that Virginia has the death penalty statute that is a legitimate one. It is one that would allow the 17-year-old to, in fact, potentially face the death penalty. I've asked for the death penalty myself in situations like that when I was a prosecutor in Virginia, whereas in Maryland, a 17-year-old can't get the death penalty. All we're really saying here is that a jury of their peers ought to have the ability to make a decision about the life or death decision against these people. That ought to be afforded to the jury.

BEGALA: Catherine Crier, why should we care, or is this politicians and prosecutors trying to leap for headlines?

CATHERINE CRIER, ANCHOR, COURT TV: Well, obviously, there is some leaping for headlines going on here. The only thing I think we really need to worry about is the feds taking the case first, because they would try all of them together, then double jeopardy would apply in every other area -- possibly Alabama would not be included with that, but if one of the states goes first, then each one, each county can obviously go after these guys.

My problem is Virginia has one shooting in one county, one shooting in another, and Montgomery County, the county most hit by this, six killings could go forward with all six in one case. Also, this has been the source of the initial investigation and most of the work, so in terms of the effort put into this, you have got most of that occurring in Montgomery County. It seems the logical place, and I ask myself, why should we be picking and choosing based upon the death penalty when we ought to look at where the crimes occurred, go forward on that basis, and if they want to pursue further cases in Virginia or Alabama, they can do so after the fact.

NOVAK: Governor?

GILMORE: Well, that's not -- first of all, it is right about the double jeopardy issue. You have to handle that like a hand grenade, and if the federal people went first, they could potentially block out Virginia and Maryland or anybody else from any potential case, so that's right. But it is not right to say that there were just more shootings in Maryland than in Virginia. There were five people injured in Virginia. This isn't the issue.

All of these victims have equal dignity. What is important is to make sure that the best case goes forward at the best location under the best statute, because you don't want to try the case in a worse jurisdiction with a worse statute in a worse case, end up with a bad result, and then go back to your good jurisdiction and then try to make your case.

(CROSSTALK)

CRIER: Let me make something clear here. I didn't say that there was five was less than six. I said Virginia is in a situation where you are going to have one shooting in one county, one shooting in another county, one shooting in another county, versus all six that can be presented to a single jury, assuming you're going forward on the spree theory to that Montgomery County jury.

GILMORE: That's right. You can make a case for trying all the Virginia cases first, as a matter of fact, in three or four jurisdictions and get that resolved.

NOVAK: Catherine, I think the American people want these people to get the death penalty if they're guilty, and I want to show you a couple polls that CNN-"TIME" took just last week. Death penalty for John Muhammad if convicted of murder, 72 percent favor, 23 oppose. Death penalty for John Malvo, who is described as a juvenile, though he is 17 years old, if convicted, favor 51 percent, oppose 43. On the basis of that, Catherine, isn't it contrary to what you suggested, isn't it important to put this case in a place where the death penalty is most likely to be the end result...

CRIER: Are we really going to decide on a jurisdiction based upon a poll? Bob, really, let's not get that far. Besides, although you have had a moratorium in Maryland, they certainly can impose the death penalty, assuming this was a spree, and four of those killings occurred within a two and a half hour period in Montgomery County, I would go under the theory this was a spree, he could get the death penalty. You may well get Malvo to turn on this guy, and I think a lot of the evidence is coming forward, or insinuations are that he may -- he may come out as not empathetic or sympathetic, but someone who was tremendously influenced. The prosecution might want to turn the 17-year-old, give him a very serious sentence, but not pursue the death penalty.

BEGALA: Well, governor, if it is all about the death penalty, why don't we just take -- go Fedex Field, where the Redskins play, let everybody who wants to come...

CRIER: Yes, absolutely.

BEGALA: ... who is that bloodthirsty, come and just chop their heads off like the Taliban? Are we no better than the doggone Taliban here?

GILMORE: And let me say something. It is very ironic here, as governor and prosecutor and so on, there was this big pull against the death penalty, a big pull against it. It has been going on for years, it has been completely unreasonable, completely ridiculous.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: It is not silly, that's murder.

GILMORE: It is just -- not, it is not. A, it is not true, and B, it is just not a way that you run a criminal justice system. But the most important point is, now all of a sudden, it is our malls and our kids and now all of a sudden the death penalty looks like it might make a little more sense.

(CROSSTALK)

CRIER: I got to jump in there because your numbers are completely wrong. In fact, there has been a push in recent years because of these moratoriums, because of Governor Ryan reviewing 140 out of 164 cases, but in fact, the number shifted a couple of percentage points from about 73 percent favoring it to 66. I don't think the death penalty was threatened in this country. But in fact, in fact, life without parole, we have executed innocent people. We will execute innocent people.

GILMORE: No. No. The law is not -- the law and the cases are not being influenced by polls. They're being influenced by the pressure that is being put on the system by anti-death penalty people, and now all of a sudden, we have a legitimate case that we should warrant the death penalty, and now everybody wants -- is in favor of it. Well, I think that's right, and I think the cases ought to be determined in the best jurisdictions with the best laws and the best case.

CRIER: Well, no matter what happens, if, in fact, they do occur in Montgomery County first, you can draw your blood as Alabama can draw their blood. There is no prohibition against you following, and there is an excellent case to be made with those six killings in Montgomery County.

GILMORE: That's not right either.

NOVAK: I want to ask one more (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- Catherine Crier, I want to ask you this, Governor Glendening of Maryland put this moratorium on. He got a lot of positive approval from the liberals for doing that in the state of Maryland. Now he says, to this case, the moratorium doesn't apply. Can you explain that?

CRIER: Well, obviously he was following what a good Republican governor, Governor Ryan did in Illinois, and that was concern based upon certain reviews that there may be people, not just technically not guilty, but innocent sitting on his death row, and that's why he put a hold on to review these cases. He's apparently saying that if this goes through, and we prosecute this and I'm satisfied, having heard all of the evidence, that this is an appropriate death penalty case, I would lift the moratorium.

NOVAK: Quickly, Jim.

GILMORE: Bob, very quickly, as a prosecutor you don't want to go to a court first, end up with a life sentence or an acquittal in the wrong jurisdiction and then try to take it to your best jurisdiction. You don't want to prosecute that way, and these people have to get together.

NOVAK: Jim Gilmore, thank you very much. Catherine Crier, thank you.

Coming up, your chance to "Fireback" at us. One of our viewers has a challenge for Paul Begala's ability to blame everything, everything on George W. Bush.

But next, our "Quote of the Day" is a reality check the Democratic Party really shouldn't ignore, but it probably will.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

NOVAK: Fritz Mondale has a record for calling them like he sees them. How many other presidential candidates uses their acceptance speech at the convince to promise a tax increase like good old Fritz did in 1984? Suicidal, but honest. But before they rush off to make Mondale Minnesota's Senate candidate, maybe the Democratic party should heed their hero's advice way back in May of 1989. It's our "Quote of the Day."

Quote, "One of the requirements of a healthy party is that it renews itself. You can't keep running Walter Mondale for everything."

BEGALA: You know, that was 13 years ago. That's a cheap shot that the Republican National Committee's been trying to pass around. We know what happened. Mondale retired from the Senate and then Senator Wellstone died. His children came to him, asked him to consider this and he's considering it. And for the Republicans to reach back 13 years ago when Paul Wellstone wasn't even yet in the Senate, it's just a cheap shot.

Next, one of our viewers fires back a suggestion about who should really be running the country. You won't believe who it is.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for "Fireback." We have an extraordinary amount of e-mail about the late and lamented Paul Wellstone.

John Smith of Chester, Arkansas wrote: "Paul, I want to commend you and the staff at CROSSFIRE for the timely, sensitive and revealing tribute to Paul Wellstone. He was a great man, a champion for the little guys."

Mr. Smith, it was the staff, not the hosts and they don't get enough appreciation, our staff here. But what they don't get in pay, we make up in abuse. So thank you for that, though. They're good people. They work hard.

NOVAK: OK, the next e-mail's from Ramsey of Gurnee, Illinois. He says, "You're awesome, Bob-o. Your views are really humane. From the Middle East to corporate scandals, you are always right. I just don't understand why you aren't running our country."

And, Ramsey, I think you may be a little sarcastic, but on the advance that you're not being sarcastic, I appreciate the confidence.

BEGALA: Absolutely.

Troy in Austin, Texas, my hometown: "I am ashamed to say that Paul Begala's from my state." Well thanks, Troy. "No matter what the topic or issue is, he blames President Bush. If my cat got stuck in a tree, he would somehow find a way to blame Bush."

No, Troy. If President Bush gets his environmental programs passed in a Republican Senate, there'll be no trees for your cat to get stuck in.

NOVAK: You know, I wrote that for Troy.

OK, Bob Hanson of Carson, Washington writes: "Bob Novak thinks he should be able to drive as fast as he wants, that Dick Armey is one of the best economists and that a national sales tax is preferable to an income tax. Fine routine for comedy clubs. Take it on the road, Bob."

Well, Bob Hanson, if you think that's funny (UNINTELLIGIBLE) reduce government and individual economic freedom. How about them apples?

First question.

QUESTION: Yes, Chris Etenharris (ph) from the U.K. Regarding Walter Mondale, I thought that the Democrats were against seniors having to return to work.

BEGALA: Well we actually don't want to force them to the way President Bush has with his crummy economy, but when there is a tragedy like this, I think it is wonderful that a guy, if he will do it, will answer the call to service.

NOVAK: They're desperate and trying to find a candidate and that's all they can find.

BEGALA: Then there's nobody better.

Yes, sir?

QUESTION: Hello, my name's Dominick (ph) from Washington, D.C. I'm wondering is there any subject that would be considered off-limits in a political campaign, for example, using the sniper case in an ad about gun control?

NOVAK: That's really -- it's really terrible. Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, using her family and the sniper case and her desperate effort to be elected governor of Maryland is disgusting.

BEGALA: It's a legitimate issue. Of course, her father was murdered by an assassin. Her father was Robert F. Kennedy. It's a legitimate because the Republican candidate there, Robert Ehrlich, opposed every form of common sense law enforcement supported gun rules and regulations. So it's very legitimate issue.

NOVAK: Next question.

QUESTION: My name is John. I'm from San Diego. And my question is for Bob Novak. Do you think that the Democrats will ever be able to stop attacking the Republicans and ever gain an agenda of their own?

NOVAK: No they have lost it. I've been around a long time. The Democrats used to really have an agenda. It was ridiculous and would ruin the country, but it was at least an agenda. Now all they can do is attack. Thanks to my dear friends Paul Begala and James Carville.

BEGALA: Well in truth Paul Begala and James Carville helped elect Bill Clinton. Had a hell of an agenda. Created 22.8 million new jobs. It gave us the largest surplus in American history cleaning up from the Republicans' deficit. I could go on and on all night. That's the Democrats' agenda: a strong economy for the middle class.

From the left, I am Paul Begala. Good night from CROSSFIRE.

NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "CONNIE CHUNG TONIGHT" begins right now.

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