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CNN Crossfire
September 11 The Key to Bush's Re-election Strategy?
Aired April 22, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala.
On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: is September 11 the key to George W. Bush's re- election strategy?
And can any Democrat beat him?
Plus -- look who is blasting the State Department. But not, he says, Colin Powell.
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: But I think he is currently presiding over an institution that's broken.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to "CROSSFIRE."
Today's "New York Times" claims to have exposed President Bush's re-election strategy, which we take is as good an excuse as any to catch up with the touchingly pathetic yet amusing crowd of Democratic presidential candidates. Please hold your laughter though, we're starting, as we always do with the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Well, Scott Peterson has at least one defender. The head of the New Jersey chapter of the National Organization for Women is arguing that Peterson should not be charge with the murder of his near-term unborn son Conner, not because Peterson didn't do it, because the child wasn't really a child. Not a human being at all. According to NOW, he was merely a lump of flesh like a wart. If he did it, Scott Peterson was just executing his freedom of choice.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: This is the best you can come up with? The Morris County New Jersey Chapter of NOW, a small country 3,000 miles away from Modesto. One woman in that group pops up and says something stupid and you make it a...
CARLSON: Well, actually you make a fair point.
BEGALA: N.O.W. says it's not their position and it's not right to take that position.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It's interesting -- I think in theory your point is a fair one except her position sums up so perfectly the position of your party, the Democratic party on the partial birth abortion bill. For instance...
BEGALA: Load of crap. My party voted for the partial birth abortion bill...
Your president vetoed it twice. Look the point is that a get a child right up to the moment he's born is not really a child. That is the position of your party and it's a monstrous position. You ought to be ashamed of it.
BEGALA: You state your position, I'll state mine. Don't you ever state the position of the Democratic Party or Paul Begala. You have a hard enough time stating your position, don't state mine.
The Bush administration policy was assaulted today by none other than Newt Gingrich. Yes, the disgraced former speaker of the house, called Presidents Bush's pre-war diplomacy a period of quote, "unrelenting defeat," claiming that quote, "the story of diplomatic defeat is a bigger and more profound story" than the U.S. military victory in Iraq. I couldn't agree with Newt any more. I can't believe that. Newt is right about something. Of course Newt Gingrich was trying to blame Secretary of State Colin Powell for Mr. Bush's many and massive failures in foreign policy.
While newt may have been shooting at Colin Powell, he hit George W. Bush. Thank you for speaking the truth about our president's failed foreign policy.
CARLSON: Actually, he was making an inarguable point about the State Department's -- truly -- we agree on this I am sure. The State Departments failure during the run-up to the war for instance to get turkey on board, and turning the attention back to the United Nations and the second resolution, et cetera, et cetera. The president played a role in that to some extent. And I think it was a mistake to go back to talk to them about a second resolution. He did for Blair. But the effect was to take the attention off Saddam Hussein, and that was always the core of the argument.
BEGALA: It was a mistake to try to go back for a second resolution, but it was Bush's mistake. Harry Truman, a Democrat has a sign on his desk that said, the buck stops here.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Blame Colin Powell, that's your strategy. CARLSON: Democrat Robert Torricelli left the Senate last year in disgrace after he had taken cash and gifts from a convicted felon who is now in prison. But Torricelli did not leave empty handed. He took $3 million in unspent funds with him. Now, after the last election is over he's spreading that money to fellow Democrats, including his $2,000 check last month to Dick Gephardt. The Gephardt's campaign says it will keep the money. There's no word on whether Torricelli plans further contributions of Italian-made suits or widescreen TVs. I mean, don't you agree you have to be desperate for money to take it from Robert Torricelli, that's so embarrassing. I guess it's legal, but come on.
It's no more embarrassing than taking money from Ken Lay, from Enron, from Exxon, from the coal companies, from tobacco companies and from insurance companies. Every dirt bag special interest who bought our president.
CARLSON: They do it, too, is your argument. They do it too. I love that. Your side does it too. Why don't you just address the fact that it's embarrassing that Gephardt took that money from Torricelli.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: The other side does it, too. Ken Lay hasn't gotten in trouble when he took the money. It was embarrassing. But not as embarrassing after all we know about Torricelli and the gift he's took, he shouldn't be taking money from him.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'd take money over Robert Torricelli from Exxon, Enron and rest of the...
CARLSON: What's wrong with Exxon?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, Today's "Washington Post" reports that the Bush White House held a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) secret briefing on the war in Iraq for 141 right wing preachers, including, get this, the Reverend Jerry Falwell. That's right, the man who says that god gave us what we deserved on September 11. The fact that Mr. Bush is apparently receiving national security advice from the likes of Jerry Falwell probably shouldn't surprise you. The book of judges says when that when Samson wanted to slay 1,000 people he turned to jaw bone of an ass.
CARLSON: I agree with you that Jerry Falwell is an ass, and I am sorry he was at that meeting. But to slur everyone there, most of whom were mainstream conservative religious leaders, as right wing fanatics is part of the reason your party doesn't do well with...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, among people of faith. Because that bigotry. These are people who -- I'm dead serious. Mainstream Southern Baptist conventions, there not right wing fanatics or lunatics, Jerry Falwell is a jerk. But the rest of them aren't. And to write them off as right wing lunatics.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Why is Bush welcoming to the White House the man who claim the September 11 as an act of god.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He should have never welcome him into our White House.
CARLSON: I tend to agree with you but to lump everyone else into that -- mainstream people (UNINTELLIGIBLE) conservative Christians, to write them off as mainstream lunatics is so unfair.
BEGALA: Franklin Graham, the son of Billy Graham at the Pentagon to preach to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at the Pentagon.
CARLSON: Actually, Franklin Graham is a totally mainstream preacher.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, next, the question is whose side are you on?
A top Republican strategist says President Bush has a strong blueprint for his election campaign, but a Democratic (UNINTELLIGIBLE) says the president plans to politicize 9/11 for his election.
And later, we'll put our political experts through the new "Rapid Fire Segment" where there are two kinds of guests, the quick and the dead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Today's "New York Times" reports President Bush's re-election strategy calls for spending $200 million, and holding the latest ever Republican National Convention that would end on September 2, just before the anniversary of 9/11. The Democrats, of course, have already reviled their 2004 strategy, complain, whine, complain some more, then hope the economy causes millions to suffer.
In the CROSSFIRE tonight, Ann Lewis, the Democratic National Committee's Women's Vote Center and Republican consultant Charlie Black.
BEGALA: Thank you very much for joining us.
Charlie, probably like you, I woke up to an amazing story today in one of America's major papers quoting our president's advisers. This is what they say -- the President Bush's advisers. They say they chose the September 2 date for their convention so the event would flow into commemorations of the third anniversary of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks.
Is that the sleaziest thing you've ever heard in your life to try to politicize the attacks of 9/11?
CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Paul, that -- that might be "The New York Times" campaign plan for the president. It's not the president's campaign.
BEGALA: Quoting Bush aides, though, Charlie. Don't sluff it off on "The New York Times." This is quoting the president's aides.
BLACK: Now first of all, sometimes it said aide, sometimes it said adviser. It didn't quote anybody on the record. The president has not told anybody or authorized anybody to talk about his campaign strategy. So this is nonsense. New York won the convention in a competition, strong competition with Tampa, New Orleans, Boston, other cities.
The biggest thing that dictates the date is this: traditionally, the party in power always goes second and the Olympics are over the Friday before we start the convention.
BEGALA: Nothing to do with 9/11.
BLACK: It's not been conspiratorial unless somebody went and got the International Olympic Committee in on the conspiracy.
CARLSON: Now Ann, I -- I don't know if the story is true or not, but I will it's incomplete because it left out the central fact, the debate about terrorism; that is, that every poll shows the public trusts for Republicans over Democrats by a wide margin to protect them from terrorism. Just a sample poll, "The New York Times" poll last month: 30 points the public says it prefers if Republicans over Democrats to protect them from terrorism. That's a huge problem for the Democratic Party.
ANN LEWIS, DEMOCRATIC NATL. CMTE.: I've got to congratulate you on your candor. Like the people who talk to "The New York Times," you are now acknowledging that the one issue, the only issue, I would say that works for Republicans right now is the national security issue.
CARLSON: Pretty important issue, I'd say.
LEWIS: It's a very important issue. George Bush was president during a successful war. Americans feel good about it.
But now Republicans are faced with, How do we keep this going through the next election? We don't want to talk about leadership here at home. We don't want to talk about the economy. By next year they're not going to want to talk about homeland security because they're falling so flat on it. So how can we keep talking about the war on terrorism? Well you know what? That war on terrorism is going to be, again, a couple of month olds, a couple of months down the road. But Republicans want to frame this election as that's the only issue. Democrats have some very good answers on that. We're going to talk about it. But again, I thought the article was fair and I thought your comment right now was very true. That's the only poll number that works for George W. Bush, so what this Republican strategy is two-part. Let's keep talking about 9/11 because that will make them look good and let's spend so much money that it makes it harder for people to know they got a real choice.
BEGALA: And, in fact, this has been the Republican strategy.
Charlie, your party sold photographs of our president on our Air Force One during 9/11 for political campaign contributions. Your party, its chief strategist, Karl Rove, the president's chief adviser, who is also his political consult aid We're going to take the issue of national security to the country to the Republican National Committee. He said that was their strategy.
A computer disk that Mr. Rove and his assistant produced for the Republican Party about their strategy, began with the following three words: focus on war. Every single piece of information we have from these people is that they want to politicize the deaths of innocent Americans. How sick is that?
BLACK: That's nonsense, Paul. There are two important points though.
One, the war on terror is going to be with us for a long time: through 2004, through 2006, 2008, whether we like it or not, people who want to be president are going to have to say what they would do to lead the fight against terrorism around the world. This president has done a great job of doing it. He's given tremendous credit by the American people. But of course it's going to be an issue because personal security against terrorism is on the minds of every American every day.
Now, secondly, the economy is an issue. It's always an issue. We know that. Practically every day since the fall of Baghdad, the president has been out talking about the economy, pushing his economic growth plan. He will continue to do that. He'll even succeed in getting most of that plan through Congress and it will help the economy. We're happy to go toe-to-toe on economic issues, health care issues, and everything else, because his leadership will prevail.
CARLSON: So Ann -- Ann, I'm going to tell you something you already know and that is that this era -- not just this year or this election -- but this whole era will be defined by terrorism and the war against it. And as I said, voters see Democrats as weak on that one. He suggested one reason why.
On the very day Saddam Hussein, one of America's most vigorous haters was deposed, Howard Dean, sort of the candidate of the moment, Democrat, former governor of Vermont said -- quote -- "We've gotten rid of him. I suppose that's a good thing." LEWIS: You are once again giving...
CARLSON: That's appalling that he would -- I suppose that's a good thing?
LEWIS: You disagree with that, but again, I think you're making the a point that Paul and I are trying to make which is that's the only thing you want to talk about.
CARLSON: I'd say it's the most important thing in the United States.
LEWIS: I do not usually give advice to Republicans, but I'll tell you, friend, be careful. People in New York, and I know a lot of people in New York, do not want to think that because of their tragedy, they're going to get used as extras in a Republican campaign commercial. Do not go too far.
This Republican Party is trying to go too far by setting up this convention to say, just remember 9/11. Just remember how tough George Bush is.
And the second question is going to be, again, the American people are going to say, where is the leadership?
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: Nobody in charge -- nobody in charge of our convention has said any of this. It's "The New York Times" quoting a bunch of phony background quotes. Nobody is on the record saying that.
I happen to know the people who are running the convention. They don't even know where their office is, let alone sit down and plan.
BEGALA: It had nothing to do with 9/11 and being in New York. It's just it's such a Republican city, of course.
BLACK: why don't you ask Governor Jeb Bush, who supported....
BEGALA: I'm sorry. Don't pee on my boots and tell me it's raining,. Charlie, as we say back home in Texas.
BLACK: Republican there, the Republican governor, we set records of getting votes in the Hispanic community in New York. New York's in play. That's one good reason to have the convention in New York City.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Every response you've come back at me with is essentially, Well, I agree that 30 -- you know, by 30 points voters prefer Republicans over Democrats on terrorism. But that's just one of many issues. You got prescription drugs. Won't you concede that for most Americans, the fear of being...
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: ...killed in your own home is the most important issue?
LEWIS: In fact, maybe you didn't listen. What I said is right now...
CARLSON: We have less than a minute left.
LEWIS: ...because George Bush has just come off a war in which he's looking good. He's got a bump from that.But the issue is security. It's a very important issue.
If homeland security is going to be important -- election are not about the past. Elections are about the future. The question is going to be, Where is your leadership now and making in feel secure at home.? Why aren't we doing more about port security? Why aren't we doing more with our local, states and communities who need help with police and fire, an issue, by the way, right there in New York.
So we will take on that issue of security. We're going to talk about it. It's not going to be 30 points. Just as Democrats want to talk about the issue of the economy, just as Democrats want to talk about our children's future.
I'm glad to see we're planning roads and education and health care for Iraq. I want to be sure we're planning it here at home as well.
BEGALA: Charlie, if it's legitimate to talk about the president's conduct in Iraq -- and it is -- isn't it also legitimate for Democrats to raise questions about why Dick Cheney was selling oil field equipment to Saddam Hussein? Isn't that a legitimate issue?
BLACK: That's just -- that is absolute nonsense.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Did he not do it?
BLACK: Dick Cheney had nothing to do with it.
BEGALA: He sold oil field equipment to Saddam Hussein for three years.
BLACK: No he didn't. He had a subsidiary....
(BELL RINGING)
BLACK: ...that they bought that did it before he bought it and he didn't even know about it until he happened to read about it in "The New York Times, " which as we know, makes up a bunch of stuff.
BEGALA: It's not what the executives at Halliburton said.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: One of our viewers says the Republicans are investing in the wrong country's economy. We'll let him "Fireback" in a little bit.
But next we'll wrap up our 2004 preview with the quickest question and answer segment in American politics. We call it "Rapid Fire." Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back. Time for our new "Rapid Fire" segment, where the pre-canned, precooked talking points are left in the dust. Short questions, short answers, just the facts. Our guests, Republican consultant Charlie Black and the Democratic National Committee's Ann Lewis.
CARLSON: All right, one (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Is Howard Dean too liberal gets the nomination?
LEWIS: No I don't think Howard Dean is too liberal. He says balanced a budget. He's actually run a state, he's made executive statements. He can do it.
BEGALA: Charlie, which Democrat do you fear the most?
BLACK: It's too early to tell, Paul. But they're all liberal, so a liberal's bound to get the nomination.
CARLSON: And a Republican was quoted in "The New York Times" the other day saying John Kerry looks French. How French does he look?
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: You know, I wasn't quite sure I understood that one. But let me tell you...
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: If you look at the screen I think it makes the point. He does look French.
LEWIS: He looks to me who looks like somebody who's, let's see, fought in Vietnam, been a prosecuting attorney, taking on corrupt bank laundering practices. If that's looking -- whatever Republicans think-- he looks pretty good to me.
BEGALA: Yes, you know. And George Bush is looking a lot like a one term president.
Is it wise to impugn the patriotism of a war hero like John Kerry particularly when your man Mr. Bush was AWOL from his National Guard duty? Is that wise?
BLACK: Wait a minute. I'm not clear who said...
BEGALA: A Bush aide said Kerry looked French.
BLACK: Boy we have these anonymous Bush aides...
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: I think the president would agree with me, Senator Kerry is a patriot. And he's too bad he came to the Senate and became such a liberal that he can't be elected.
CARLSON: OK. And Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi suggested the war against Saddam was too expensive. Was it worth getting Saddam deposed?
LEWIS: I think that the war was valuable in toppling a tyrant and giving the people of Iraq a chance for democracy. But the real costs are going to start now. That's the question.
BEGALA: Charlie Black, was it bigoted for Senator Rick Santorum, the No. 3 Republican in the Senate, to equate homosexuality with incest?
BLACK: Senator Santorum is not a bigot. He was stating his religious views.
BEGALA: was that statement bigoted?
BLACK: He was stating -- I know him. He's not a bigot.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: The Supreme Court is not bound by Rick Santorum's religious views.
BEGALA: Thank God for that.
CARLSON: And another -- Senator Edwards of North Carolina was recently described as "the Breck girl" of politics. Do you believe that's true?
LEWIS: Is this some Republican thing? You don't want to talk about substance, you don't want to talk about issues, you don't want to talk about the economy. You're only going to talk about how they look? Yes, we have good-looking candidates and I'm glad.
CARLSON: Well it's nice you finally gave a straight answer. Ann Lewis, Charlie Black, thank you both very much.
The party of candidates. CROSSFIRE's new time slot has one of our viewers reaching for the antacid. We'll let him "Fireback" next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for "Fireback." Joe Francisco leads us off from Middlefield, Connecticut. He writes, "Since George Bush became president, the cry is still `It's the economy, stupid,'" -- be a good name for a book -- "the American economy that is. The Iraqi economy will get a big boost thanks to the American taxpayer and the Republican administration of George Dubbya." Good point, Joe.
CARLSON: You know, Democrats used to care about the rest of the world. I don't know when they all become isolated.
BEGALA: Republicans used to care about America. I don't know when they stopped doing that.
CARLSON: Paulette Bringham of Indianapolis writes, "We wouldn't have a country if e followed the liberal `win-without-war' philosophy. Sitting on the sidelines talking unfortunately isn't always the answer." No, in America power actually can do good, Paulette. Thanks for recognizing it.
BEGALA: And, Paulette, we wouldn't have a country if the French hadn't helped us in our revolution.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Alberto in Edinburg, Texas, a great town in the valley. "Paul," he writes, "it's great to have you guys back debating again. I know you are going to continue to do a superb job in holding the Bushes accountable for their domestic and international policies."
See, I knew Alberto looked smart coming from Edinburg, a great place like that. Thank you, Alberto. Texas.
CARLSON: Yes. OK, next up is Jeff Strand of Princeton, Minnesota. "Tucker, I don't know about this new time. I can only usually listen to you on a full stomach otherwise the acid it gives me cause me heartburn."
And you know, Jeff, that is part of my diabolical gastrointestinal distress plan for people like you. Wreck your stomach, first.
BEGALA: Yes, sir. What's your question of comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just wondering if the economy doesn't turn around soon, will George W. face the same fate as his father did?
CARLSON: Yes.
BEGALA: And join his father in the hall of failed one-term presidents. And his mother will be the only...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's a talking point, but it obscures the truth which is, yes, I mean, he's not -- this war was not a political war and won't bring him across the finish line in 2004.
Yes, sir?
BEGALA: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Bill Wilson (ph) and my question is can John Kerry come back from his regime change comment?
CARLSON: I don't believe he can. I mean it revealed him as not only not a very good campaigner, overreacting to Howard Dean's little bump in New Hampshire, but also serve as a temperate person. He's a serious person. I can't imagine why he'd say something that silly.
BEGALA: Let me say it again. We need regime change in Washington. That's called democracy. That's called believing in the American way. That's what John Kerry fought for when George W. Bush was AWOL from the National Guard. God bless John Kerry for taking these bozos on. I loved that comment.
CARLSON: It's so outrageous.
BEGALA: Yes, sir. What's your question or comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, my name's Ralph Drumms (ph). How can the Democrats counteract President Bush politicizing September 11 tragedies?
CARLSON: Well American don't trust Democrats on terrorism. It's a huge problem. I feel sorry for Democrats. That 30-point spread is a death blow to the Democratic Party unless they get on top of it.
BEGALA: I think people are going to be so repulsed by the sight of our president trying to politicize that tragedy. We know it wasn't his fault, nor -- he was our president, we rallied around him. But, you know, that's all that it was. And the fact that he wants to now politicize the death of 3,000 Americans is...
CARLSON: Well, in the end, people trust one party over the other to protect them. That's significant. That is not politicizing something...
BEGALA: It's politicizing. It's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) your city and the timing of...
CARLSON: The moment he politicized it, the moment I denounce him.
BEGALA: He politicized it.
We got to go. From the left, I am Paul Begala. Good night from CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
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Aired April 22, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala.
On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: is September 11 the key to George W. Bush's re- election strategy?
And can any Democrat beat him?
Plus -- look who is blasting the State Department. But not, he says, Colin Powell.
NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: But I think he is currently presiding over an institution that's broken.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to "CROSSFIRE."
Today's "New York Times" claims to have exposed President Bush's re-election strategy, which we take is as good an excuse as any to catch up with the touchingly pathetic yet amusing crowd of Democratic presidential candidates. Please hold your laughter though, we're starting, as we always do with the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Well, Scott Peterson has at least one defender. The head of the New Jersey chapter of the National Organization for Women is arguing that Peterson should not be charge with the murder of his near-term unborn son Conner, not because Peterson didn't do it, because the child wasn't really a child. Not a human being at all. According to NOW, he was merely a lump of flesh like a wart. If he did it, Scott Peterson was just executing his freedom of choice.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: This is the best you can come up with? The Morris County New Jersey Chapter of NOW, a small country 3,000 miles away from Modesto. One woman in that group pops up and says something stupid and you make it a...
CARLSON: Well, actually you make a fair point.
BEGALA: N.O.W. says it's not their position and it's not right to take that position.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It's interesting -- I think in theory your point is a fair one except her position sums up so perfectly the position of your party, the Democratic party on the partial birth abortion bill. For instance...
BEGALA: Load of crap. My party voted for the partial birth abortion bill...
Your president vetoed it twice. Look the point is that a get a child right up to the moment he's born is not really a child. That is the position of your party and it's a monstrous position. You ought to be ashamed of it.
BEGALA: You state your position, I'll state mine. Don't you ever state the position of the Democratic Party or Paul Begala. You have a hard enough time stating your position, don't state mine.
The Bush administration policy was assaulted today by none other than Newt Gingrich. Yes, the disgraced former speaker of the house, called Presidents Bush's pre-war diplomacy a period of quote, "unrelenting defeat," claiming that quote, "the story of diplomatic defeat is a bigger and more profound story" than the U.S. military victory in Iraq. I couldn't agree with Newt any more. I can't believe that. Newt is right about something. Of course Newt Gingrich was trying to blame Secretary of State Colin Powell for Mr. Bush's many and massive failures in foreign policy.
While newt may have been shooting at Colin Powell, he hit George W. Bush. Thank you for speaking the truth about our president's failed foreign policy.
CARLSON: Actually, he was making an inarguable point about the State Department's -- truly -- we agree on this I am sure. The State Departments failure during the run-up to the war for instance to get turkey on board, and turning the attention back to the United Nations and the second resolution, et cetera, et cetera. The president played a role in that to some extent. And I think it was a mistake to go back to talk to them about a second resolution. He did for Blair. But the effect was to take the attention off Saddam Hussein, and that was always the core of the argument.
BEGALA: It was a mistake to try to go back for a second resolution, but it was Bush's mistake. Harry Truman, a Democrat has a sign on his desk that said, the buck stops here.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Blame Colin Powell, that's your strategy. CARLSON: Democrat Robert Torricelli left the Senate last year in disgrace after he had taken cash and gifts from a convicted felon who is now in prison. But Torricelli did not leave empty handed. He took $3 million in unspent funds with him. Now, after the last election is over he's spreading that money to fellow Democrats, including his $2,000 check last month to Dick Gephardt. The Gephardt's campaign says it will keep the money. There's no word on whether Torricelli plans further contributions of Italian-made suits or widescreen TVs. I mean, don't you agree you have to be desperate for money to take it from Robert Torricelli, that's so embarrassing. I guess it's legal, but come on.
It's no more embarrassing than taking money from Ken Lay, from Enron, from Exxon, from the coal companies, from tobacco companies and from insurance companies. Every dirt bag special interest who bought our president.
CARLSON: They do it, too, is your argument. They do it too. I love that. Your side does it too. Why don't you just address the fact that it's embarrassing that Gephardt took that money from Torricelli.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: The other side does it, too. Ken Lay hasn't gotten in trouble when he took the money. It was embarrassing. But not as embarrassing after all we know about Torricelli and the gift he's took, he shouldn't be taking money from him.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'd take money over Robert Torricelli from Exxon, Enron and rest of the...
CARLSON: What's wrong with Exxon?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, Today's "Washington Post" reports that the Bush White House held a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) secret briefing on the war in Iraq for 141 right wing preachers, including, get this, the Reverend Jerry Falwell. That's right, the man who says that god gave us what we deserved on September 11. The fact that Mr. Bush is apparently receiving national security advice from the likes of Jerry Falwell probably shouldn't surprise you. The book of judges says when that when Samson wanted to slay 1,000 people he turned to jaw bone of an ass.
CARLSON: I agree with you that Jerry Falwell is an ass, and I am sorry he was at that meeting. But to slur everyone there, most of whom were mainstream conservative religious leaders, as right wing fanatics is part of the reason your party doesn't do well with...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, among people of faith. Because that bigotry. These are people who -- I'm dead serious. Mainstream Southern Baptist conventions, there not right wing fanatics or lunatics, Jerry Falwell is a jerk. But the rest of them aren't. And to write them off as right wing lunatics.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Why is Bush welcoming to the White House the man who claim the September 11 as an act of god.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He should have never welcome him into our White House.
CARLSON: I tend to agree with you but to lump everyone else into that -- mainstream people (UNINTELLIGIBLE) conservative Christians, to write them off as mainstream lunatics is so unfair.
BEGALA: Franklin Graham, the son of Billy Graham at the Pentagon to preach to the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) at the Pentagon.
CARLSON: Actually, Franklin Graham is a totally mainstream preacher.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, next, the question is whose side are you on?
A top Republican strategist says President Bush has a strong blueprint for his election campaign, but a Democratic (UNINTELLIGIBLE) says the president plans to politicize 9/11 for his election.
And later, we'll put our political experts through the new "Rapid Fire Segment" where there are two kinds of guests, the quick and the dead.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Today's "New York Times" reports President Bush's re-election strategy calls for spending $200 million, and holding the latest ever Republican National Convention that would end on September 2, just before the anniversary of 9/11. The Democrats, of course, have already reviled their 2004 strategy, complain, whine, complain some more, then hope the economy causes millions to suffer.
In the CROSSFIRE tonight, Ann Lewis, the Democratic National Committee's Women's Vote Center and Republican consultant Charlie Black.
BEGALA: Thank you very much for joining us.
Charlie, probably like you, I woke up to an amazing story today in one of America's major papers quoting our president's advisers. This is what they say -- the President Bush's advisers. They say they chose the September 2 date for their convention so the event would flow into commemorations of the third anniversary of the World Trade Center and Pentagon attacks.
Is that the sleaziest thing you've ever heard in your life to try to politicize the attacks of 9/11?
CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT: Paul, that -- that might be "The New York Times" campaign plan for the president. It's not the president's campaign.
BEGALA: Quoting Bush aides, though, Charlie. Don't sluff it off on "The New York Times." This is quoting the president's aides.
BLACK: Now first of all, sometimes it said aide, sometimes it said adviser. It didn't quote anybody on the record. The president has not told anybody or authorized anybody to talk about his campaign strategy. So this is nonsense. New York won the convention in a competition, strong competition with Tampa, New Orleans, Boston, other cities.
The biggest thing that dictates the date is this: traditionally, the party in power always goes second and the Olympics are over the Friday before we start the convention.
BEGALA: Nothing to do with 9/11.
BLACK: It's not been conspiratorial unless somebody went and got the International Olympic Committee in on the conspiracy.
CARLSON: Now Ann, I -- I don't know if the story is true or not, but I will it's incomplete because it left out the central fact, the debate about terrorism; that is, that every poll shows the public trusts for Republicans over Democrats by a wide margin to protect them from terrorism. Just a sample poll, "The New York Times" poll last month: 30 points the public says it prefers if Republicans over Democrats to protect them from terrorism. That's a huge problem for the Democratic Party.
ANN LEWIS, DEMOCRATIC NATL. CMTE.: I've got to congratulate you on your candor. Like the people who talk to "The New York Times," you are now acknowledging that the one issue, the only issue, I would say that works for Republicans right now is the national security issue.
CARLSON: Pretty important issue, I'd say.
LEWIS: It's a very important issue. George Bush was president during a successful war. Americans feel good about it.
But now Republicans are faced with, How do we keep this going through the next election? We don't want to talk about leadership here at home. We don't want to talk about the economy. By next year they're not going to want to talk about homeland security because they're falling so flat on it. So how can we keep talking about the war on terrorism? Well you know what? That war on terrorism is going to be, again, a couple of month olds, a couple of months down the road. But Republicans want to frame this election as that's the only issue. Democrats have some very good answers on that. We're going to talk about it. But again, I thought the article was fair and I thought your comment right now was very true. That's the only poll number that works for George W. Bush, so what this Republican strategy is two-part. Let's keep talking about 9/11 because that will make them look good and let's spend so much money that it makes it harder for people to know they got a real choice.
BEGALA: And, in fact, this has been the Republican strategy.
Charlie, your party sold photographs of our president on our Air Force One during 9/11 for political campaign contributions. Your party, its chief strategist, Karl Rove, the president's chief adviser, who is also his political consult aid We're going to take the issue of national security to the country to the Republican National Committee. He said that was their strategy.
A computer disk that Mr. Rove and his assistant produced for the Republican Party about their strategy, began with the following three words: focus on war. Every single piece of information we have from these people is that they want to politicize the deaths of innocent Americans. How sick is that?
BLACK: That's nonsense, Paul. There are two important points though.
One, the war on terror is going to be with us for a long time: through 2004, through 2006, 2008, whether we like it or not, people who want to be president are going to have to say what they would do to lead the fight against terrorism around the world. This president has done a great job of doing it. He's given tremendous credit by the American people. But of course it's going to be an issue because personal security against terrorism is on the minds of every American every day.
Now, secondly, the economy is an issue. It's always an issue. We know that. Practically every day since the fall of Baghdad, the president has been out talking about the economy, pushing his economic growth plan. He will continue to do that. He'll even succeed in getting most of that plan through Congress and it will help the economy. We're happy to go toe-to-toe on economic issues, health care issues, and everything else, because his leadership will prevail.
CARLSON: So Ann -- Ann, I'm going to tell you something you already know and that is that this era -- not just this year or this election -- but this whole era will be defined by terrorism and the war against it. And as I said, voters see Democrats as weak on that one. He suggested one reason why.
On the very day Saddam Hussein, one of America's most vigorous haters was deposed, Howard Dean, sort of the candidate of the moment, Democrat, former governor of Vermont said -- quote -- "We've gotten rid of him. I suppose that's a good thing." LEWIS: You are once again giving...
CARLSON: That's appalling that he would -- I suppose that's a good thing?
LEWIS: You disagree with that, but again, I think you're making the a point that Paul and I are trying to make which is that's the only thing you want to talk about.
CARLSON: I'd say it's the most important thing in the United States.
LEWIS: I do not usually give advice to Republicans, but I'll tell you, friend, be careful. People in New York, and I know a lot of people in New York, do not want to think that because of their tragedy, they're going to get used as extras in a Republican campaign commercial. Do not go too far.
This Republican Party is trying to go too far by setting up this convention to say, just remember 9/11. Just remember how tough George Bush is.
And the second question is going to be, again, the American people are going to say, where is the leadership?
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: Nobody in charge -- nobody in charge of our convention has said any of this. It's "The New York Times" quoting a bunch of phony background quotes. Nobody is on the record saying that.
I happen to know the people who are running the convention. They don't even know where their office is, let alone sit down and plan.
BEGALA: It had nothing to do with 9/11 and being in New York. It's just it's such a Republican city, of course.
BLACK: why don't you ask Governor Jeb Bush, who supported....
BEGALA: I'm sorry. Don't pee on my boots and tell me it's raining,. Charlie, as we say back home in Texas.
BLACK: Republican there, the Republican governor, we set records of getting votes in the Hispanic community in New York. New York's in play. That's one good reason to have the convention in New York City.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Every response you've come back at me with is essentially, Well, I agree that 30 -- you know, by 30 points voters prefer Republicans over Democrats on terrorism. But that's just one of many issues. You got prescription drugs. Won't you concede that for most Americans, the fear of being...
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: ...killed in your own home is the most important issue?
LEWIS: In fact, maybe you didn't listen. What I said is right now...
CARLSON: We have less than a minute left.
LEWIS: ...because George Bush has just come off a war in which he's looking good. He's got a bump from that.But the issue is security. It's a very important issue.
If homeland security is going to be important -- election are not about the past. Elections are about the future. The question is going to be, Where is your leadership now and making in feel secure at home.? Why aren't we doing more about port security? Why aren't we doing more with our local, states and communities who need help with police and fire, an issue, by the way, right there in New York.
So we will take on that issue of security. We're going to talk about it. It's not going to be 30 points. Just as Democrats want to talk about the issue of the economy, just as Democrats want to talk about our children's future.
I'm glad to see we're planning roads and education and health care for Iraq. I want to be sure we're planning it here at home as well.
BEGALA: Charlie, if it's legitimate to talk about the president's conduct in Iraq -- and it is -- isn't it also legitimate for Democrats to raise questions about why Dick Cheney was selling oil field equipment to Saddam Hussein? Isn't that a legitimate issue?
BLACK: That's just -- that is absolute nonsense.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Did he not do it?
BLACK: Dick Cheney had nothing to do with it.
BEGALA: He sold oil field equipment to Saddam Hussein for three years.
BLACK: No he didn't. He had a subsidiary....
(BELL RINGING)
BLACK: ...that they bought that did it before he bought it and he didn't even know about it until he happened to read about it in "The New York Times, " which as we know, makes up a bunch of stuff.
BEGALA: It's not what the executives at Halliburton said.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: One of our viewers says the Republicans are investing in the wrong country's economy. We'll let him "Fireback" in a little bit.
But next we'll wrap up our 2004 preview with the quickest question and answer segment in American politics. We call it "Rapid Fire." Stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back. Time for our new "Rapid Fire" segment, where the pre-canned, precooked talking points are left in the dust. Short questions, short answers, just the facts. Our guests, Republican consultant Charlie Black and the Democratic National Committee's Ann Lewis.
CARLSON: All right, one (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Is Howard Dean too liberal gets the nomination?
LEWIS: No I don't think Howard Dean is too liberal. He says balanced a budget. He's actually run a state, he's made executive statements. He can do it.
BEGALA: Charlie, which Democrat do you fear the most?
BLACK: It's too early to tell, Paul. But they're all liberal, so a liberal's bound to get the nomination.
CARLSON: And a Republican was quoted in "The New York Times" the other day saying John Kerry looks French. How French does he look?
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: You know, I wasn't quite sure I understood that one. But let me tell you...
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: If you look at the screen I think it makes the point. He does look French.
LEWIS: He looks to me who looks like somebody who's, let's see, fought in Vietnam, been a prosecuting attorney, taking on corrupt bank laundering practices. If that's looking -- whatever Republicans think-- he looks pretty good to me.
BEGALA: Yes, you know. And George Bush is looking a lot like a one term president.
Is it wise to impugn the patriotism of a war hero like John Kerry particularly when your man Mr. Bush was AWOL from his National Guard duty? Is that wise?
BLACK: Wait a minute. I'm not clear who said...
BEGALA: A Bush aide said Kerry looked French.
BLACK: Boy we have these anonymous Bush aides...
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: I think the president would agree with me, Senator Kerry is a patriot. And he's too bad he came to the Senate and became such a liberal that he can't be elected.
CARLSON: OK. And Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi suggested the war against Saddam was too expensive. Was it worth getting Saddam deposed?
LEWIS: I think that the war was valuable in toppling a tyrant and giving the people of Iraq a chance for democracy. But the real costs are going to start now. That's the question.
BEGALA: Charlie Black, was it bigoted for Senator Rick Santorum, the No. 3 Republican in the Senate, to equate homosexuality with incest?
BLACK: Senator Santorum is not a bigot. He was stating his religious views.
BEGALA: was that statement bigoted?
BLACK: He was stating -- I know him. He's not a bigot.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: The Supreme Court is not bound by Rick Santorum's religious views.
BEGALA: Thank God for that.
CARLSON: And another -- Senator Edwards of North Carolina was recently described as "the Breck girl" of politics. Do you believe that's true?
LEWIS: Is this some Republican thing? You don't want to talk about substance, you don't want to talk about issues, you don't want to talk about the economy. You're only going to talk about how they look? Yes, we have good-looking candidates and I'm glad.
CARLSON: Well it's nice you finally gave a straight answer. Ann Lewis, Charlie Black, thank you both very much.
The party of candidates. CROSSFIRE's new time slot has one of our viewers reaching for the antacid. We'll let him "Fireback" next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for "Fireback." Joe Francisco leads us off from Middlefield, Connecticut. He writes, "Since George Bush became president, the cry is still `It's the economy, stupid,'" -- be a good name for a book -- "the American economy that is. The Iraqi economy will get a big boost thanks to the American taxpayer and the Republican administration of George Dubbya." Good point, Joe.
CARLSON: You know, Democrats used to care about the rest of the world. I don't know when they all become isolated.
BEGALA: Republicans used to care about America. I don't know when they stopped doing that.
CARLSON: Paulette Bringham of Indianapolis writes, "We wouldn't have a country if e followed the liberal `win-without-war' philosophy. Sitting on the sidelines talking unfortunately isn't always the answer." No, in America power actually can do good, Paulette. Thanks for recognizing it.
BEGALA: And, Paulette, we wouldn't have a country if the French hadn't helped us in our revolution.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Alberto in Edinburg, Texas, a great town in the valley. "Paul," he writes, "it's great to have you guys back debating again. I know you are going to continue to do a superb job in holding the Bushes accountable for their domestic and international policies."
See, I knew Alberto looked smart coming from Edinburg, a great place like that. Thank you, Alberto. Texas.
CARLSON: Yes. OK, next up is Jeff Strand of Princeton, Minnesota. "Tucker, I don't know about this new time. I can only usually listen to you on a full stomach otherwise the acid it gives me cause me heartburn."
And you know, Jeff, that is part of my diabolical gastrointestinal distress plan for people like you. Wreck your stomach, first.
BEGALA: Yes, sir. What's your question of comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just wondering if the economy doesn't turn around soon, will George W. face the same fate as his father did?
CARLSON: Yes.
BEGALA: And join his father in the hall of failed one-term presidents. And his mother will be the only...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's a talking point, but it obscures the truth which is, yes, I mean, he's not -- this war was not a political war and won't bring him across the finish line in 2004.
Yes, sir?
BEGALA: Yes, sir?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Bill Wilson (ph) and my question is can John Kerry come back from his regime change comment?
CARLSON: I don't believe he can. I mean it revealed him as not only not a very good campaigner, overreacting to Howard Dean's little bump in New Hampshire, but also serve as a temperate person. He's a serious person. I can't imagine why he'd say something that silly.
BEGALA: Let me say it again. We need regime change in Washington. That's called democracy. That's called believing in the American way. That's what John Kerry fought for when George W. Bush was AWOL from the National Guard. God bless John Kerry for taking these bozos on. I loved that comment.
CARLSON: It's so outrageous.
BEGALA: Yes, sir. What's your question or comment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi, my name's Ralph Drumms (ph). How can the Democrats counteract President Bush politicizing September 11 tragedies?
CARLSON: Well American don't trust Democrats on terrorism. It's a huge problem. I feel sorry for Democrats. That 30-point spread is a death blow to the Democratic Party unless they get on top of it.
BEGALA: I think people are going to be so repulsed by the sight of our president trying to politicize that tragedy. We know it wasn't his fault, nor -- he was our president, we rallied around him. But, you know, that's all that it was. And the fact that he wants to now politicize the death of 3,000 Americans is...
CARLSON: Well, in the end, people trust one party over the other to protect them. That's significant. That is not politicizing something...
BEGALA: It's politicizing. It's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) your city and the timing of...
CARLSON: The moment he politicized it, the moment I denounce him.
BEGALA: He politicized it.
We got to go. From the left, I am Paul Begala. Good night from CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
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