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CNN Crossfire
Is al Qaeda Planning Another Strike?; Can Sharpton Become President?
Aired May 21, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE, more tapes, more threats and more worries. Are terrorists about to strike? And are we doing enough to stop them?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will hunt the terrorists in every dark corner of the earth.
ANNOUNCER: There's an Al Sharpton supporter in the House. Does he really think Sharpton can win the presidency?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
From the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE. This afternoon, we're following two significant stories. Any minute now, we will bring you a news conference from Illinois where authorities are expected to announce charges against two adults in connection with the now infamous or famous hazing incident in a Chicago suburb.
But while we wait, it's time for the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." Stand by in Chicago. Here's the press conference.
Cook County State Attorney, Dick Devine, I think is approaching the podium.
(LIVE EVENT)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: That was prosecutors there in Illinois, talking about charges that have been filed against adults supplying alcohol to those girls at that hazing incident in Illinois. Tucker, as a lawyer, it is actually technically illegal to supply alcohol to underage girls. In my home state of Texas, it's honored in the breach. We don't really enforce it with quite this strictness, perhaps, as the gentleman prosecutor we saw just there.
CARLSON: It does throw me to the question, what is alcohol for? It does seem, in my opinion, overblown, the talk of violence. There's a lot of violence in this world. I'm not sure this qualifies.
The most amusing part of all of this, though, is apparently the requirement that some of those charged will have to undergo counseling -- counseling to get over their, I don't know, attraction to beer or hazing or -- counseling.
BEGALA: And community service, which I think is a good thing, community service, but...
CARLSON: OK. Speaking of good things, here's a good thing. We're going to turn now to our lead story. Law enforcement agencies around the world and the nation are increasing security to keep up with the heightened terrorism alert status. Cities, airports, border crossings and even Indianapolis 500, which will be attended by former presidents Bush and Clinton, are all beefing up their security.
Is the United States ready for a possible terrorist attack? Joining us to discuss this, from Capitol Hill, Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas and Texas Republican Congressman Pete Session. They're both members of the select committee on Homeland Security.
Welcome.
BEGALA: Congresswoman and Congressman, thank you both very much for joining us.
Congressman Sessions, let me begin with you. President Bush's Department of Justice released a report this week that described local law enforcement efforts on terrorism as grossly understaffed.
Given that, why are you and your fellow Republicans allocating $500 billion of our money for a tax cut and only $41 billion for homeland security? Is that the wrong priorities?
REP. PETE SESSIONS (R), TEXAS: You know, the amount of money that's being spent right now on homeland security, I think is being spent prudently. It's being given to states. It's being given to cities. It's being given to people who will be able to spend this money appropriately.
As far as whatever tax cut amount money that comes, that is very simple. We need this economy to be moving. The bottom line is that it will spur the economy. It will get people back not only working, but give them jobs, and it will be helpful for America. We believe both avenues are great for this country.
BEGALA: You're comfortable then with a 12-to-one ratio from tax cuts to the rich -- or tax cuts that I would say for the rich -- versus homeland security, when law enforcement officers, local police and sheriffs, first responders across the country are saying that they need more help. Do you think they are just wrong? Are they just wining?
SESSIONS: No, I don't think they are wining at all. I think what's happened is that there have been allocations of money that have been given to states, that have been given to municipalities, and a good bit of the money has simply not filtered through the system. Perhaps some of these people have not filled out their paperwork and given it for grants.
We looked into this several weeks ago when we were concerned about this. And cities need to understand what they are going to spend the money for. There are specifications for that.
We believe the money will be allocated properly. We believe the money will be utilized. The bottom line is that the determination that we made to put billions of dollars into this effort is what we decided immediately after September 11.
I am pleased with the effect of local law enforcement working with federal law enforcement on these relationships. But there are a lot of things that are out, within our cities and within our communities, that we are simply not going to be able to fund.
We are concerned about spending the money to avoid terrorists coming into this country. We are concerned about not only bridges and dams and harbors, but we're also concerned about sea outlets and ports. We're interested about things that are happening overseas, gaining information, so that we know something that's happening. So it's a balancing act that we're a part of right now.
CARLSON: OK. Congresswoman Jackson Lee, Donna Brazile, a long- time political consultant, Democrat, Al Gore's former campaign manager, wrote a remarkable op-ed in today's "Wall Street Journal" in which she seeks to explain why voters don't think Democrats are good at defending America.
Here's part of what she says: "Many prominent Democrats still seem not to grasp the profound sense of insecurity that so many people feel in our country after 9/11. Voters believe that we Democrats are weak and indecisive when it comes to standing up to dictators and terrorists and when it comes to the primary responsibility of government defending the nation." Donna Brazile is on to something, isn't she?
REP. SHEILA JACKSON-LEE (D), TEXAS: Absolutely not. I'm not arguing with an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal." My argument is with the Republican Congress and the Republican administration. And just as we have announced the orange alert, let me announce that this nation is absolutely not safe. Let me say it again. We are absolutely not safe.
And I don't have an argument with Secretary Tom Ridge. He is a good man. And he is trying. But let me just list the various areas where we are extremely weak.
I think one of the myths was that the war in Iraq was going to immediately put a cover of safety around this nation. We can see now that neither is there a cover of safety in Iraq, in Baghdad, there certainly is not one here in the United States. In the last seven days, we've had tragic incidents causing a great loss of life of Americans in Riyadh and, of course, in Morocco. It says that al Qaeda is alive and well. They're alive and well in Afghanistan. They're alive and well all over the nation.
CARLSON: Wait a second here. Nobody ever -- hold on. No Republican...
JACKSON-LEE: Now let me just finish my point. The $550 billion tax cut is an abomination. It's a waste of money. The $550 billion tax cut, $1 million will create two jobs...
CARLSON: I think we understand your point, Congresswoman, but hold on. You -- hold on.
JACKSON-LEE: If you do what the Democrats...
CARLSON: You're attacking the straw man.
JACKSON-LEE: ... do and invest in...
CARLSON: OK. I'm not going to shut you down, Congresswoman.
JACKSON-LEE: ... infrastructure and health care, you'll see that we create more jobs. But our borders are not safe, southern and northern borders are not safe. We are not safe.
BEGALA: Congressman Sessions, we come back to you. Didn't our president, particularly at the speech at the American Enterprise Institute, before the war in Iraq, promise us that, in fact, just what Congresswoman Lee just said, if we had a war in Iraq that it would diminish terrorism around the world. With 14 attacks in eight days, wasn't the president wrong?
SESSIONS: I don't know that he was right or wrong. I think what he said is that we will stay after terrorism until we've beaten it. And the bottom line is that what my colleague is suggesting is similar to a plan that mother Russia tried, where they were so concerned about their homeland defense that they spent themselves into bankruptcy.
And this is one of the things, which this administration, this Congress is going to be very careful about. We need to make sure that the amount of money that we spend can be spent wisely and effectively. We need to make sure that the tax cuts that will become available very quickly to the American public, because of Republicans, because Republicans believe in giving money back to people who earn the money -- and we are going to make sure this economy and the security of this nation, just as the president...
BEGALA: Wait, wait, hold up (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
JACKSON-LEE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)....
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) but I'm in that top 1 percent now and I'd rather you protect me from a terrorist attack than give me another tax cut, sir, with all due respect.
JACKSON-LEE: You can't really defend (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a tax cut. SESSIONS: Look, there can be a lot...
JACKSON-LEE: If I may -- if I may just...
SESSIONS: ... that is said about the tax cut. The bottom line is that we now have a problem where there is capital that's available. We're going to have a resurgence of capital that will become available. It is people who have money, who create jobs, who give jobs. Poor people simply do not give out jobs. And we need our men and women who will come home from the war to have jobs and have the respect from the people...
JACKSON-LEE: Well, I'm outraged by that comment. Poor people don't give out jobs. Poor people would like to have jobs. And ...
CARLSON: Congresswoman Lee, hold on...
JACKSON-LEE: ... let me speak without being interrupted.
CARLSON: Congresswoman Lee, wait. Before you get into another speech, Congresswoman Jackson Lee. Hold on. I'd like you to answer -- wait. Hold on. I am going to interrupt you and ask you to answer a question, if you would, this time.
I posed a second ago the idea that many people within the Democratic Party recognize Democrats have a problem by 40 points. Democrats are losing on the question, which party is tough enough on terrorism. Will you answer it now?
JACKSON-LEE: I certainly will.
CARLSON: Do Democrats have to do something...
JACKSON-LEE: I absolutely will.
CARLSON: ... do something to reverse this perception?
JACKSON-LEE: One of the reasons why we are losing is because we are arguing with Democrats. I'm not going to argue with a Democrat. Let me just say that if we would get equal time in the variety of CNNs and other stations, we might be able to do so. But I will give you an answer.
The question is, why don't you ask local governments and state governments. They don't have the money that this administration and Congress allegedly has appropriated. We are not safe because first responders, like police and fire, don't have communication tools that can communicate across jurisdictional lines.
We are not safe because there are not enough resources at the borders so to avoid 19 dead people that were smuggled across the border in Texas, and we don't have enough to secure the northern border. I was just there 48 hours ago.
The question becomes, if we can unsheet, if you will, take the sheets off of the issue of homeland security, you'll find out that the local first responders and local governments have monies that they do not have in order to make sure they are secure.
Immunization has not been -- we have not immunized everyone in this country. We've not immunized all the health professionals. Democrats have been saying this and they've been saying that let us invest in the economy so not only can we create jobs, but we can provide the resources to our local governments to make sure that we are secure. And...
CARLSON: OK. Congresswoman Jackson Lee...
JACKSON-LEE: ... I would hope that a poor person...
CARLSON: ... I believe we've given you the equal time that you asked for...
JACKSON-LEE: ... that gets a job will help create a job.
CARLSON: ... and I'm afraid we're out of time now. But we want to thank you very much for joining us. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee...
JACKSON-LEE: Thank you for having me.
CARLSON: ... and Congressman Sessions, both from Texas. Thanks very much. We appreciate it.
Coming up, "Rapid Fire," the quickest question and answer segment in political television. We'll ask Al Sharpton's first and so far his only, but not his last, convention delegate, how much longer until the American folk hero clinches the democratic nomination for president? Any day now. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for the quickest question and answer session in television. It's called "Rapid Fire."
Joining us from Capitol Hill is New York Democratic Congressman Jose Serrano. He has endorsed Al Sharpton for president.
Congressman Serrano, thank you, sir.
REP. JOSE SERRANO (D), NEW YORK: Thank you so much.
CARLSON: Congressman, I want to thank you for your endorsement of Mr. Sharpton. Do you think he can win?
SERRANO: Absolutely. I think he could win once he puts forth his platform. And that's the reason why I'm endorsing him, for the fact that he and I have worked together. I know his platform and, most importantly to me, because he makes my party, the Democratic Party, behave like Democrats at all those debates. And he will shape the agenda of my party.
BEGALA: Congressman Serrano, you are not currently under doctor's care or on medication for any reason, are you, sir? I mean are you nuts?
SERRANO: I could be...
BEGALA: A Democrat that loves his party, are you out of your mind?
SERRANO: I could be, if you analyze the fact that I'm appearing on this show, but other than that...
BEGALA: Fair point.
SERRANO: Other than that, I'm doing fine.
CARLSON: Mr. Serrano, you heard the tone of that question. Have you taken a lot of grief from fellow Democrats for your heroic act, endorsing Mr. Sharpton?
SERRANO: Absolutely not. And I am very serious, and people quietly will nod in agreement that my party has quickly become a mini Republican party and that al Sharpton puts forth issues of racial profiling, of help for minorities, of poor working whites who somehow never get any attention from any of the major parties.
And if he is not involved in this process, those issues will never be discussed. So No. 1, I am hopeful that he gets the nomination. But in the process, he will make my party behave like the party that I joined when I was 15, 16 years old, and that's the Democratic Party.
BEGALA: Al Sharpton supported Al D'Amato, Republican for the Senate. He helped George Pataki, a Republican running for governor. What kind of Democrat is that?
SERRANO: It's the Democrat that we need right now, the Democrat that speaks to issues that other Democrats refuse to speak to since 1994. When we lost the House of Representatives -- and I was here -- instead of tinkering around the edges and coming back with the agenda that kept us in power for 42 years, we decided to reinvent ourselves.
And I think it's a terrible mistake. And Al Sharpton can win the presidency, can win the nomination. But most importantly, for me and why am I there as a super delegate already endorsing him, is the fact that he will make my party speak to the issues that my party refuses to talk about.
BEGALA: Congressman Jose Serrano from New York, thank you very much for joining us.
SERRANO: Thank you.
BEGALA: He will be leading the Sharpton delegation meeting in a phone booth at the Boston Convent, but good. Thank you again, Congressman Serrano, for being good enough to join us.
Coming up after Wolf Blitzer gives us the headlines, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert" will be here, including word of a technicized (ph) cover-up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(HEADLINES)
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf Blitzer, for that update of all the important news. It is time now, though, for the political news in our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The "Fort Worth Star Telegram" reports today that the Texas Department of Public Safety, which, of course, like all of state government, is under George W. Bush's successive Republican Governor Rick Perry, ordered the destruction of all records of the search for the Democrats who fled Austin and hid in Oklahoma to kill a Republican redistricting plan.
Troopers reportedly called the Federal Department of Homeland Security to search for the Democrats. The destruction of those records may, in fact, be a crime. It is certainly a cover-up and all the more reason for the Bush administration to come clean about all the facts regarding the allegation that our Department of Homeland Security was spying on Democrats instead of protecting us against terrorism.
CARLSON: It looks like it was not a crime. It was one of the stupidest things I've heard of in a long time and impossible to defend. I'm opposed to any public records being destroyed for any reason ever. I think they should almost always be accessible to the public.
There is no evidence at all that the federal government and certainly not the Bush White House had anything to do with this at all.
BEGALA: Because they haven't released the evidence. We have no idea. Why won't Tom Ridge just put all the evidence out?
CARLSON: Paul, Paul...
BEGALA: Seriously. It couldn't help the terrorists, right?
CARLSON: Paul, there's no evidence that they have any evidence, anything to do with the White House at all.
BEGALA: They have tape recordings. Now, Tucker, in a hearing yesterday -- no, seriously -- in a hearing yesterday, Ridge was asked, would he release the tape recordings of Texas officials calling his department, he said, well, I'll think about it. No, he should just do it.
CARLSON: Now, I tend to agree with you.
BEGALA: All right.
CARLSON: It would be bad for you if we did because there's probably nothing there. BEGALA: Maybe not.
CARLSON: There's a new battle brewing within the Democratic Party. It is, who is the most qualified woman running for president? The debate erupted yesterday at a candidates' forum in Washington. Former Senator Carol Moseley Braun, who was, strictly speaking, the only female in the race, described her run for the White House, as "a lonely effort to try to carry the burden of empowering women."
Moseley Braun's campaign, of course, is going absolutely nowhere, but fortunately for women's empowerment, there is always Howard Dean. According to reporter Jeff Zeleny of the "Chicago Tribune," the former Vermont Governor stepped forward to tout his own credentials as a woman. As Dean put it, "you won't find a better feminist running for president." And so the battle of the sexes continues.
BEGALA: Oh, please. This is a news flash, you know.
CARLSON: Are you a good feminist here, Paul?
BEGALA: You know, you could be a feminist...
CARLSON: No, no, no, just tell me you are.
BEGALA: Of course I'm a feminist that believes women should be equal. That's what a feminist is.
CARLSON: Oh, everyone believes women should be equal.
BEGALA: No, no, not the right-wing thugs of the Republican Party.
CARLSON: No, no -- right-wing thugs.
BEGALA: They don't even support the ERA. They don't support equal pay. They don't support equal rights for women.
CARLSON: Oh, please. Everybody believes -- most all people think women are equal. To be a feminist, you could cut your hair really short. You have to be really angry about something. I just don't see you as a feminist. I had no idea.
BEGALA: You don't have to be angry about something. No.
CARLSON: That's absolutely right.
BEGALA: Well, I think you do have to be angry about the fact that women get mistreated repeatedly by this Bush administration...
CARLSON: I don't think...
BEGALA: ... that he's loading up the federal judiciary with a bunch of right-wing crackpots...
CARLSON: Don't lecture me about...
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
CARLSON: No one likes women any more than I do. But I'm not a feminist. I'm glad you are.
Also ahead, our viewers fire back at America's homeland security arrangements. One of them has a question about a long period of silence in the Democratic whining.
And then our audience question. It is, is Al Sharpton presidential material? Hit 1 for yes, 2 for no. When we return, the results. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for the results of our audience poll. The question, of course, was, is Al Sharpton presidential material? Here are the results. Only 18 percent of Republicans said yes; 82 percent say no. Only 17 percent of Democrats, 83 percent said no.
Tucker, there is no joy in Mudville. Mighty Al has struck out.
CARLSON: If the question is then, is he Democratic nominee material, I think the answer would have been quite different.
BEGALA: He's -- you know, he's...
CARLSON: He is way on polyester. That's his material, certainly Democratic.
BEGALA: He looks smashing in it, but he's not my party's nominee, Tucker, hard though you've tried.
CARLSON: It's a first step. Steve Faris from Dallas writes "Where were the screaming Democrats about intelligence in homeland security for the eight years prior to Bush?"
Good question, Steve. Topic of a future show, I hope.
BEGALA: Yes, beefing it up when Connie Rice killed a Clinton plan that she inherited to try to go after al Qaeda.
William Wallace, in Miami Florida, writes "Hi, Paul, you have to admit Tucker is a handsome fellow with good taste in bow ties. It's too bad he has such bad taste in politics."
Well, as an devout feminist, Tucker, I...
CARLSON: I'd like (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: How about tonight's bow tie?
CARLSON: As a feminist, I like it. Yes, sir.
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from South Carolina gave him that bow tie. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, I'm Joseph Lynn (ph) from Edison, New Jersey, representing John P. Stevens High school -- and represent the John Paul Stevens High School.
CARLSON: Justice John Paul Stevens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. My question is, is Al Sharpton really serious about running for president or is he really using this as a publicity stunt to voice his political views?
CARLSON: Of course he's serious. And it tells you something that Democrats don't take him serious, and they ought to. If they live up to the ideal of their party, they would take him seriously.
BEGALA: Of course he's -- if Pat Buchanan used CROSSFIRE to launch a campaign for president, I think Sharpton is using a campaign for president to try to get his own talk show.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. See you tomorrow.
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President?>
Aired May 21, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE, more tapes, more threats and more worries. Are terrorists about to strike? And are we doing enough to stop them?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: We will hunt the terrorists in every dark corner of the earth.
ANNOUNCER: There's an Al Sharpton supporter in the House. Does he really think Sharpton can win the presidency?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
From the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE. This afternoon, we're following two significant stories. Any minute now, we will bring you a news conference from Illinois where authorities are expected to announce charges against two adults in connection with the now infamous or famous hazing incident in a Chicago suburb.
But while we wait, it's time for the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." Stand by in Chicago. Here's the press conference.
Cook County State Attorney, Dick Devine, I think is approaching the podium.
(LIVE EVENT)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: That was prosecutors there in Illinois, talking about charges that have been filed against adults supplying alcohol to those girls at that hazing incident in Illinois. Tucker, as a lawyer, it is actually technically illegal to supply alcohol to underage girls. In my home state of Texas, it's honored in the breach. We don't really enforce it with quite this strictness, perhaps, as the gentleman prosecutor we saw just there.
CARLSON: It does throw me to the question, what is alcohol for? It does seem, in my opinion, overblown, the talk of violence. There's a lot of violence in this world. I'm not sure this qualifies.
The most amusing part of all of this, though, is apparently the requirement that some of those charged will have to undergo counseling -- counseling to get over their, I don't know, attraction to beer or hazing or -- counseling.
BEGALA: And community service, which I think is a good thing, community service, but...
CARLSON: OK. Speaking of good things, here's a good thing. We're going to turn now to our lead story. Law enforcement agencies around the world and the nation are increasing security to keep up with the heightened terrorism alert status. Cities, airports, border crossings and even Indianapolis 500, which will be attended by former presidents Bush and Clinton, are all beefing up their security.
Is the United States ready for a possible terrorist attack? Joining us to discuss this, from Capitol Hill, Democratic Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee of Texas and Texas Republican Congressman Pete Session. They're both members of the select committee on Homeland Security.
Welcome.
BEGALA: Congresswoman and Congressman, thank you both very much for joining us.
Congressman Sessions, let me begin with you. President Bush's Department of Justice released a report this week that described local law enforcement efforts on terrorism as grossly understaffed.
Given that, why are you and your fellow Republicans allocating $500 billion of our money for a tax cut and only $41 billion for homeland security? Is that the wrong priorities?
REP. PETE SESSIONS (R), TEXAS: You know, the amount of money that's being spent right now on homeland security, I think is being spent prudently. It's being given to states. It's being given to cities. It's being given to people who will be able to spend this money appropriately.
As far as whatever tax cut amount money that comes, that is very simple. We need this economy to be moving. The bottom line is that it will spur the economy. It will get people back not only working, but give them jobs, and it will be helpful for America. We believe both avenues are great for this country.
BEGALA: You're comfortable then with a 12-to-one ratio from tax cuts to the rich -- or tax cuts that I would say for the rich -- versus homeland security, when law enforcement officers, local police and sheriffs, first responders across the country are saying that they need more help. Do you think they are just wrong? Are they just wining?
SESSIONS: No, I don't think they are wining at all. I think what's happened is that there have been allocations of money that have been given to states, that have been given to municipalities, and a good bit of the money has simply not filtered through the system. Perhaps some of these people have not filled out their paperwork and given it for grants.
We looked into this several weeks ago when we were concerned about this. And cities need to understand what they are going to spend the money for. There are specifications for that.
We believe the money will be allocated properly. We believe the money will be utilized. The bottom line is that the determination that we made to put billions of dollars into this effort is what we decided immediately after September 11.
I am pleased with the effect of local law enforcement working with federal law enforcement on these relationships. But there are a lot of things that are out, within our cities and within our communities, that we are simply not going to be able to fund.
We are concerned about spending the money to avoid terrorists coming into this country. We are concerned about not only bridges and dams and harbors, but we're also concerned about sea outlets and ports. We're interested about things that are happening overseas, gaining information, so that we know something that's happening. So it's a balancing act that we're a part of right now.
CARLSON: OK. Congresswoman Jackson Lee, Donna Brazile, a long- time political consultant, Democrat, Al Gore's former campaign manager, wrote a remarkable op-ed in today's "Wall Street Journal" in which she seeks to explain why voters don't think Democrats are good at defending America.
Here's part of what she says: "Many prominent Democrats still seem not to grasp the profound sense of insecurity that so many people feel in our country after 9/11. Voters believe that we Democrats are weak and indecisive when it comes to standing up to dictators and terrorists and when it comes to the primary responsibility of government defending the nation." Donna Brazile is on to something, isn't she?
REP. SHEILA JACKSON-LEE (D), TEXAS: Absolutely not. I'm not arguing with an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal." My argument is with the Republican Congress and the Republican administration. And just as we have announced the orange alert, let me announce that this nation is absolutely not safe. Let me say it again. We are absolutely not safe.
And I don't have an argument with Secretary Tom Ridge. He is a good man. And he is trying. But let me just list the various areas where we are extremely weak.
I think one of the myths was that the war in Iraq was going to immediately put a cover of safety around this nation. We can see now that neither is there a cover of safety in Iraq, in Baghdad, there certainly is not one here in the United States. In the last seven days, we've had tragic incidents causing a great loss of life of Americans in Riyadh and, of course, in Morocco. It says that al Qaeda is alive and well. They're alive and well in Afghanistan. They're alive and well all over the nation.
CARLSON: Wait a second here. Nobody ever -- hold on. No Republican...
JACKSON-LEE: Now let me just finish my point. The $550 billion tax cut is an abomination. It's a waste of money. The $550 billion tax cut, $1 million will create two jobs...
CARLSON: I think we understand your point, Congresswoman, but hold on. You -- hold on.
JACKSON-LEE: If you do what the Democrats...
CARLSON: You're attacking the straw man.
JACKSON-LEE: ... do and invest in...
CARLSON: OK. I'm not going to shut you down, Congresswoman.
JACKSON-LEE: ... infrastructure and health care, you'll see that we create more jobs. But our borders are not safe, southern and northern borders are not safe. We are not safe.
BEGALA: Congressman Sessions, we come back to you. Didn't our president, particularly at the speech at the American Enterprise Institute, before the war in Iraq, promise us that, in fact, just what Congresswoman Lee just said, if we had a war in Iraq that it would diminish terrorism around the world. With 14 attacks in eight days, wasn't the president wrong?
SESSIONS: I don't know that he was right or wrong. I think what he said is that we will stay after terrorism until we've beaten it. And the bottom line is that what my colleague is suggesting is similar to a plan that mother Russia tried, where they were so concerned about their homeland defense that they spent themselves into bankruptcy.
And this is one of the things, which this administration, this Congress is going to be very careful about. We need to make sure that the amount of money that we spend can be spent wisely and effectively. We need to make sure that the tax cuts that will become available very quickly to the American public, because of Republicans, because Republicans believe in giving money back to people who earn the money -- and we are going to make sure this economy and the security of this nation, just as the president...
BEGALA: Wait, wait, hold up (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
JACKSON-LEE: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)....
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) but I'm in that top 1 percent now and I'd rather you protect me from a terrorist attack than give me another tax cut, sir, with all due respect.
JACKSON-LEE: You can't really defend (UNINTELLIGIBLE) a tax cut. SESSIONS: Look, there can be a lot...
JACKSON-LEE: If I may -- if I may just...
SESSIONS: ... that is said about the tax cut. The bottom line is that we now have a problem where there is capital that's available. We're going to have a resurgence of capital that will become available. It is people who have money, who create jobs, who give jobs. Poor people simply do not give out jobs. And we need our men and women who will come home from the war to have jobs and have the respect from the people...
JACKSON-LEE: Well, I'm outraged by that comment. Poor people don't give out jobs. Poor people would like to have jobs. And ...
CARLSON: Congresswoman Lee, hold on...
JACKSON-LEE: ... let me speak without being interrupted.
CARLSON: Congresswoman Lee, wait. Before you get into another speech, Congresswoman Jackson Lee. Hold on. I'd like you to answer -- wait. Hold on. I am going to interrupt you and ask you to answer a question, if you would, this time.
I posed a second ago the idea that many people within the Democratic Party recognize Democrats have a problem by 40 points. Democrats are losing on the question, which party is tough enough on terrorism. Will you answer it now?
JACKSON-LEE: I certainly will.
CARLSON: Do Democrats have to do something...
JACKSON-LEE: I absolutely will.
CARLSON: ... do something to reverse this perception?
JACKSON-LEE: One of the reasons why we are losing is because we are arguing with Democrats. I'm not going to argue with a Democrat. Let me just say that if we would get equal time in the variety of CNNs and other stations, we might be able to do so. But I will give you an answer.
The question is, why don't you ask local governments and state governments. They don't have the money that this administration and Congress allegedly has appropriated. We are not safe because first responders, like police and fire, don't have communication tools that can communicate across jurisdictional lines.
We are not safe because there are not enough resources at the borders so to avoid 19 dead people that were smuggled across the border in Texas, and we don't have enough to secure the northern border. I was just there 48 hours ago.
The question becomes, if we can unsheet, if you will, take the sheets off of the issue of homeland security, you'll find out that the local first responders and local governments have monies that they do not have in order to make sure they are secure.
Immunization has not been -- we have not immunized everyone in this country. We've not immunized all the health professionals. Democrats have been saying this and they've been saying that let us invest in the economy so not only can we create jobs, but we can provide the resources to our local governments to make sure that we are secure. And...
CARLSON: OK. Congresswoman Jackson Lee...
JACKSON-LEE: ... I would hope that a poor person...
CARLSON: ... I believe we've given you the equal time that you asked for...
JACKSON-LEE: ... that gets a job will help create a job.
CARLSON: ... and I'm afraid we're out of time now. But we want to thank you very much for joining us. Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee...
JACKSON-LEE: Thank you for having me.
CARLSON: ... and Congressman Sessions, both from Texas. Thanks very much. We appreciate it.
Coming up, "Rapid Fire," the quickest question and answer segment in political television. We'll ask Al Sharpton's first and so far his only, but not his last, convention delegate, how much longer until the American folk hero clinches the democratic nomination for president? Any day now. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for the quickest question and answer session in television. It's called "Rapid Fire."
Joining us from Capitol Hill is New York Democratic Congressman Jose Serrano. He has endorsed Al Sharpton for president.
Congressman Serrano, thank you, sir.
REP. JOSE SERRANO (D), NEW YORK: Thank you so much.
CARLSON: Congressman, I want to thank you for your endorsement of Mr. Sharpton. Do you think he can win?
SERRANO: Absolutely. I think he could win once he puts forth his platform. And that's the reason why I'm endorsing him, for the fact that he and I have worked together. I know his platform and, most importantly to me, because he makes my party, the Democratic Party, behave like Democrats at all those debates. And he will shape the agenda of my party.
BEGALA: Congressman Serrano, you are not currently under doctor's care or on medication for any reason, are you, sir? I mean are you nuts?
SERRANO: I could be...
BEGALA: A Democrat that loves his party, are you out of your mind?
SERRANO: I could be, if you analyze the fact that I'm appearing on this show, but other than that...
BEGALA: Fair point.
SERRANO: Other than that, I'm doing fine.
CARLSON: Mr. Serrano, you heard the tone of that question. Have you taken a lot of grief from fellow Democrats for your heroic act, endorsing Mr. Sharpton?
SERRANO: Absolutely not. And I am very serious, and people quietly will nod in agreement that my party has quickly become a mini Republican party and that al Sharpton puts forth issues of racial profiling, of help for minorities, of poor working whites who somehow never get any attention from any of the major parties.
And if he is not involved in this process, those issues will never be discussed. So No. 1, I am hopeful that he gets the nomination. But in the process, he will make my party behave like the party that I joined when I was 15, 16 years old, and that's the Democratic Party.
BEGALA: Al Sharpton supported Al D'Amato, Republican for the Senate. He helped George Pataki, a Republican running for governor. What kind of Democrat is that?
SERRANO: It's the Democrat that we need right now, the Democrat that speaks to issues that other Democrats refuse to speak to since 1994. When we lost the House of Representatives -- and I was here -- instead of tinkering around the edges and coming back with the agenda that kept us in power for 42 years, we decided to reinvent ourselves.
And I think it's a terrible mistake. And Al Sharpton can win the presidency, can win the nomination. But most importantly, for me and why am I there as a super delegate already endorsing him, is the fact that he will make my party speak to the issues that my party refuses to talk about.
BEGALA: Congressman Jose Serrano from New York, thank you very much for joining us.
SERRANO: Thank you.
BEGALA: He will be leading the Sharpton delegation meeting in a phone booth at the Boston Convent, but good. Thank you again, Congressman Serrano, for being good enough to join us.
Coming up after Wolf Blitzer gives us the headlines, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert" will be here, including word of a technicized (ph) cover-up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(HEADLINES)
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf Blitzer, for that update of all the important news. It is time now, though, for the political news in our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The "Fort Worth Star Telegram" reports today that the Texas Department of Public Safety, which, of course, like all of state government, is under George W. Bush's successive Republican Governor Rick Perry, ordered the destruction of all records of the search for the Democrats who fled Austin and hid in Oklahoma to kill a Republican redistricting plan.
Troopers reportedly called the Federal Department of Homeland Security to search for the Democrats. The destruction of those records may, in fact, be a crime. It is certainly a cover-up and all the more reason for the Bush administration to come clean about all the facts regarding the allegation that our Department of Homeland Security was spying on Democrats instead of protecting us against terrorism.
CARLSON: It looks like it was not a crime. It was one of the stupidest things I've heard of in a long time and impossible to defend. I'm opposed to any public records being destroyed for any reason ever. I think they should almost always be accessible to the public.
There is no evidence at all that the federal government and certainly not the Bush White House had anything to do with this at all.
BEGALA: Because they haven't released the evidence. We have no idea. Why won't Tom Ridge just put all the evidence out?
CARLSON: Paul, Paul...
BEGALA: Seriously. It couldn't help the terrorists, right?
CARLSON: Paul, there's no evidence that they have any evidence, anything to do with the White House at all.
BEGALA: They have tape recordings. Now, Tucker, in a hearing yesterday -- no, seriously -- in a hearing yesterday, Ridge was asked, would he release the tape recordings of Texas officials calling his department, he said, well, I'll think about it. No, he should just do it.
CARLSON: Now, I tend to agree with you.
BEGALA: All right.
CARLSON: It would be bad for you if we did because there's probably nothing there. BEGALA: Maybe not.
CARLSON: There's a new battle brewing within the Democratic Party. It is, who is the most qualified woman running for president? The debate erupted yesterday at a candidates' forum in Washington. Former Senator Carol Moseley Braun, who was, strictly speaking, the only female in the race, described her run for the White House, as "a lonely effort to try to carry the burden of empowering women."
Moseley Braun's campaign, of course, is going absolutely nowhere, but fortunately for women's empowerment, there is always Howard Dean. According to reporter Jeff Zeleny of the "Chicago Tribune," the former Vermont Governor stepped forward to tout his own credentials as a woman. As Dean put it, "you won't find a better feminist running for president." And so the battle of the sexes continues.
BEGALA: Oh, please. This is a news flash, you know.
CARLSON: Are you a good feminist here, Paul?
BEGALA: You know, you could be a feminist...
CARLSON: No, no, no, just tell me you are.
BEGALA: Of course I'm a feminist that believes women should be equal. That's what a feminist is.
CARLSON: Oh, everyone believes women should be equal.
BEGALA: No, no, not the right-wing thugs of the Republican Party.
CARLSON: No, no -- right-wing thugs.
BEGALA: They don't even support the ERA. They don't support equal pay. They don't support equal rights for women.
CARLSON: Oh, please. Everybody believes -- most all people think women are equal. To be a feminist, you could cut your hair really short. You have to be really angry about something. I just don't see you as a feminist. I had no idea.
BEGALA: You don't have to be angry about something. No.
CARLSON: That's absolutely right.
BEGALA: Well, I think you do have to be angry about the fact that women get mistreated repeatedly by this Bush administration...
CARLSON: I don't think...
BEGALA: ... that he's loading up the federal judiciary with a bunch of right-wing crackpots...
CARLSON: Don't lecture me about...
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
CARLSON: No one likes women any more than I do. But I'm not a feminist. I'm glad you are.
Also ahead, our viewers fire back at America's homeland security arrangements. One of them has a question about a long period of silence in the Democratic whining.
And then our audience question. It is, is Al Sharpton presidential material? Hit 1 for yes, 2 for no. When we return, the results. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for the results of our audience poll. The question, of course, was, is Al Sharpton presidential material? Here are the results. Only 18 percent of Republicans said yes; 82 percent say no. Only 17 percent of Democrats, 83 percent said no.
Tucker, there is no joy in Mudville. Mighty Al has struck out.
CARLSON: If the question is then, is he Democratic nominee material, I think the answer would have been quite different.
BEGALA: He's -- you know, he's...
CARLSON: He is way on polyester. That's his material, certainly Democratic.
BEGALA: He looks smashing in it, but he's not my party's nominee, Tucker, hard though you've tried.
CARLSON: It's a first step. Steve Faris from Dallas writes "Where were the screaming Democrats about intelligence in homeland security for the eight years prior to Bush?"
Good question, Steve. Topic of a future show, I hope.
BEGALA: Yes, beefing it up when Connie Rice killed a Clinton plan that she inherited to try to go after al Qaeda.
William Wallace, in Miami Florida, writes "Hi, Paul, you have to admit Tucker is a handsome fellow with good taste in bow ties. It's too bad he has such bad taste in politics."
Well, as an devout feminist, Tucker, I...
CARLSON: I'd like (UNINTELLIGIBLE)...
BEGALA: How about tonight's bow tie?
CARLSON: As a feminist, I like it. Yes, sir.
BEGALA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) from South Carolina gave him that bow tie. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hello, I'm Joseph Lynn (ph) from Edison, New Jersey, representing John P. Stevens High school -- and represent the John Paul Stevens High School.
CARLSON: Justice John Paul Stevens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. My question is, is Al Sharpton really serious about running for president or is he really using this as a publicity stunt to voice his political views?
CARLSON: Of course he's serious. And it tells you something that Democrats don't take him serious, and they ought to. If they live up to the ideal of their party, they would take him seriously.
BEGALA: Of course he's -- if Pat Buchanan used CROSSFIRE to launch a campaign for president, I think Sharpton is using a campaign for president to try to get his own talk show.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. See you tomorrow.
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