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CNN Crossfire
Should Bush Mend Fences With Europeans?; Did FCC Make Right Decision?
Aired June 02, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left: James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right: Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson. In the CROSSFIRE, are these guys friends, or what?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people in both our countries wondering whether or not we can actually sit down and have a comfortable conversation. And the answer is absolutely.
ANNOUNCER: So is it time to stop bashing France, or were the French right all along?
JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Exactement.
Plus, more sniping on the left. And did the FCC make the right decision? Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(APPLAUSE)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush says, "It's time to move on" and put his rift with French President Jacques Chirac behind him. But did the long presidential hissy fit accomplish anything other than to subject America to international ridicule for stunts like freedom fries and freedom toast? We will debate that topic with our congressmen in just a minute. But first, the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE Political Alert.
President Bush promised to "reduce tax rates for everyone who pays income tax." In fact, that's a direct quote from our president. But experts who have read the fine print have discovered that Mr. Bush has broken that promise. Moms and dads who make less than $26,000 a year are excluded from the child tax credit, and 8 million other people who pay income taxes will receive nothing at all.
Many of them heads of households who make up to $50,000 a year but don't have young children or income from dividends or capital gains. They will see no tax cut whatsoever.
Perhaps the most outrageous, many of those who get nothing from Mr. Bush's tax cut are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines on active duty. Thank god they believe in honoring their commitments more than our commander in chief does.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Well, I'm glad to see that you've returned from the weekend with your nightly attack on our president. Let me try to explain this to you. And read my lips on this, please.
People who don't have children do not get a children's tax credit. That's the way it works. If you have children, you get the children's tax credit. If you don't, you don't get it.
It has nothing to do with, we're going to eliminate people who are in low income. If they have children, they get the children's tax credit.
BEGALA: Except that's not true. Twelve million children, they don't get anything. Nothing. And 8 million more get nothing.
NOVAK: But if they pay taxes...
BEGALA: That's just not true, Bob. That's what he promised, but he broke his promise. That's what the experts say.
NOVAK: You understand it.
The Federal Communications Commission today relaxed regulations on owning newspapers and television stations. Regulations written before talk radio, before cable television, before programs like this one. The vote was three to two along party lines.
Republicans voted for economic freedom. Democrats for government regulation. A strong supporter of this change is News Corp (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Robert Murdoch, whose Fox News channel is CNN's big competitor. On the other side is CNN founder Ted Turner. Now, if I am on Murdoch's side and not Turner's, what does that say about opponents of this change who claim the media (UNINTELLIGIBLE) control of the people who work for them?
BEGALA: It says a lot about CNN and about Fox. I don't hear any anchor on Fox criticizing what's in Fox's interest. I will say that CNN is a big corporation. They've never tried to sensor me or you, I'm sure.
NOVAK: They have never.
BEGALA: But it says a lot, also, about our president. I just talked about how he broke his promise to middle income taxpayers. He's kept his promise to the big conglomerates. He's giving them everything they want.
NOVAK: Well you try to attack Bush all the time.
BEGALA: He kept one promise to the big conglomerates. NOVAK: Since we have some extra time, I'm going to tell you this. If you pay income taxes -- if you pay income taxes and you have children, you get a children's tax credit.
BEGALA: But that's just not true.
NOVAK: It is true. You don't understand it.
BEGALA: Budget experts who have looked at this say 8 million income tax payers get no income tax cuts.
NOVAK: It's the demagogues who have looked at it.
BEGALA: Read my lips.
Anyway, accompanied by our first lady, President Bush this weekend walked the last half mile of the train tracks in the Nazi death camp of Auschwitz. He also visited the crematorium and wrote in a guest book the phrase "never forget."
God bless George W. Bush for doing that. I don't often praise him, but he deserves praise now. He's in the Middle East also today planning for an Israeli-Palestinian summit. But here at home, the "Chicago Tribune" ran this cartoon depicting our president genuflecting before Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
Mr. Sharon in the cartoon has an exaggeratedly large nose, a star of David on his coat, is apparently only interested in the money the cartoon figure Mr. Bush is laying before him. The cartoonist, by the name of Dick Locher, has a perfect right to free speech. And I have a perfect right to call him on a cartoon that is offensive and borders on anti-Semitic.
Shame on him. This is not the paper that Mr. Novak was in. It's the competitor of the very fine paper that runs your column, Bob.
NOVAK: "Chicago Sun-Times" my paper. Paul, I'm glad to hear you say something nice about George W. Bush. It happens about once a year or once every two years, perhaps.
I thought that cartoon was tasteless. But the thing that worries me, I don't like to see every time somebody criticizes this Israeli government to be called anti-Semitic.
BEGALA: That's a fair point.
NOVAK: I think it's a danger.
BEGALA: That's a fair point, but -- and the president's is doing the right thing on Israel right now, and that cartoon demeans him and he shouldn't have run it.
NOVAK: Yes.
In the Democratic forum in Lake Placid, New York over the weekend, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts tried to make clear he's not moderate, not centrist and certainly not nonpartisan. He declared, "The one thing this country doesn't need is a second Republican Party."
The former Vermont governor, Howard Dean, competing with Kerry for the presidential nomination, protested, saying, "I appreciate Senator Kerry saying we don't need Bush light, and we don't, but Senator Kerry, we don't need Dean light either." Said Dean of Kerry, "I heard he did a great job giving my speech."
In the great tradition of George McGovern and Fritz Mondale, Democrats are racing each other to the left and maybe to oblivion.
BEGALA: You've seen a lot of campaigns. That's a fair comment. These guys ought to be talking about big ideas and big issues of taking on George W. Bush.
You know Howard Dean's best campaign line is when he stole from Paul Wellstone -- he (ph) very rarely acknowledges. He says, "I'm for the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."
That's not what Democrats ought to be fighting about. We ought to talk about how George W. Bush has ruined the economy and ruined our foreign policy and how we ought to make America great again instead of this petty nonsense.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Maybe they need you as their propaganda. I know they don't need you because you do it here every night. That's right.
BEGALA: I'm out of that business. I don't run anything bigger than my mouth. I don't run any campaigns anymore. That's it.
NOVAK: OK. After all the French bashing in America, the handshakes certainly looked sincere. But can President Bush and French President Jacques Chirac work together? And does the U.S. even need France as a partner in the first place?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: At the G-8 summit today, President Bush and French President Jacques Chirac went out of their way to try to demonstrate that they have a unity of purpose. With President Chirac sitting nearby, President Bush told reporters that, despite their recent nastiness concerning the war in Iraq, the U.S. and France now maintain good relations because the two leaders have been, "very honest with each other."
Now, really, haven't the U.S. and France -- have they really kissed and made up? In the CROSSFIRE, Congressman Jim McDermott, Democrat of Washington. He went to Iraq before the war and criticized President Bush's policies. And Congressman David Dreier, Republican of California, chairman of the powerful House Rules Committee -- Paul.
BEGALA: Gentlemen, thank you both.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Mr. Chairman, let me start with you. "The New York Times" this weekend had a fascinating story, looking at the body language that our president uses. I know him a little bit back when he was my governor. He's a very touchy-feely guy. He does express himself physically a lot.
Here's him shaking hands with President Chirac. It's cool, professional, but not particularly warm. Now, here he is with Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, holding hands in a very -- a friendly way, showing a close relationship.
Here he is with President Mubarak of Egypt just today. Let's put that picture up there of our president with President Mubarak from Egypt. And he's holding hands with him. I don't know if you can see it in this shot; he's holding hands and walking, strolling blissfully with President Mubarak.
Why is our president so cool toward free Democratic leaders and so cozy with Middle East dictators?
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: Bon jour. Comment ca va? Let me just say -- let me say that I did see him pat Jacques Chirac on the back. So that didn't make the clip that you all showed.
Let me say there clearly has been tension between France and the United States. We all know that. But I will tell you that the day after September 11, on September 12, 2001, I'll never forget the headline in "Le Monde", a liberal publication which said, "We're all Americans today."
We've had a bumpy relationship with France for a long period of time. You can look at the Suez Canal. I can remember in 1987, '86, when Ronald Reagan tried to fly over France to go and hit Muammar Gadhafi.
This has been a challenging relationship. But I argue, Paul, that we have more in common with France and Western Europe than we do in opposition. And I think we can improve things.
NOVAK: Congressman Jim McDermott, there were a lot of countries that didn't agree with the U.S. on going into Iraq. But France was really nasty about it. Much nastier than Russia, much nastier than China, much nastier than the European countries. It's a little hard to be nice to people who have gone over the line with you, against you, isn't it?
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: No. You have to. In this business, one day you're with me, tomorrow you're against me. The next day you're with me.
I can't take it personally. The president took is too personally.
NOVAK: Don't you think France is a little different, though, than the other countries I mentioned? MCDERMOTT: Germany. I mean, if you want to say -- the word out on the street is that we're going to punish France, ignore Germany and reward the Russians. I mean, what kind of simple-minded politics is that?
The president of the United States should not treat...
DREIER: That's not the U.S. policy, Jim. That's not the U.S. policy.
MCDERMOTT: Well, that's the way they're acting.
DREIER: Yes. Well, I mean that's clearly not policy.
BEGALA: Why are we mad -- why is the president mad at the French, when it was the French who said Saddam Hussein does not have the mighty war machine that Mr. Bush said they did. It was the French who said they either don't have or won't use weapons of mass destruction. They French were right, weren't they, Congressman?
DREIER: No, the French weren't right. But I will tell you this, the president went to the G-8 summit. He went to France.
I know there are many Americans who are angry at the fact that the president of the United States, in light of the treatment that we got, even did that. He said when he sat down with Jacques Chirac...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... weapons of mass destruction.
DREIER: No they weren't. Do you know that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
BEGALA: No. But they certainly didn't use them.
DREIER: Are you confident of that?
BEGALA: No.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: You know that there are no weapons there?
BEGALA: But they didn't use them. We know they didn't use them. And either he didn't have them or was too nice a guy.
NOVAK: Never make the mistake of asking him a question.
DREIER: Yes. I'm afraid to ask a question.
BEGALA: They either didn't have it or he was too nice a guy to use them.
DREIER: Listen, I mean we saw in today's Post an Iraqi scientist who came out and talked about the dual use, commercial use and the fact that these weapons have been hidden.
BEGALA: Right.
DREIER: The fact is, if you look at where we're going here, I think the president has been very courageous in stepping forward and trying to build back the relationship with Western Europe.
NOVAK: Congressman McDermott, the French were against us attacking Iraq, whether they have weapons of mass destruction or not. I think you were against it.
I don't think you said, boy, if they have the weapons, we ought to attack. But I want to show you what the American people think on a poll that was just taken by CNN-"USA Today" Gallup.
"Was the attack on Iraq justified?" Only if weapons are found, 23 percent. Justified even if no weapons were found, 56 percent. Isn't that interesting?
MCDERMOTT: It shows how good the PR machine has been out of the White House.
(APPLAUSE)
MCDERMOTT: They convinced the American people that Saddam Hussein was a member of al Qaeda. They convinced...
DREIER: They never said that Saddam Hussein was a member of al Qaeda. They never indicated that he was involved in command and control of September 11. We do know...
(CROSSTALK)
MCDERMOTT: I let you talk. Now you be quiet for a minute.
The fact is that they have confused the people to the point where people think they've actually found weapons of mass destruction. They find two empty trucks, and they say...
NOVAK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They say even if no weapons are found -- they think he's a brutal dictator, don't they?
MCDERMOTT: I understand that they want the president to succeed. Because he's the only security we have, which is frightening in itself. If I were -- I'd want somebody leading us somewhere.
BEGALA: Congressman Dreier, we do all want the president to succeed.
DREIER: Absolutely. Of course we do.
BEGALA: And of course I think we can agree we don't want the president to mislead. The same poll that Bob cited asked another question of the American people just reported today by CNN.
It asked them, "Did the president mislead us into this war?" If you look here, about a third of us think, well, he did give us accurate information. But two thirds say he either gave us inaccurate information with honest intent, because he's misinformed, or he deliberately misled us. Doesn't this man have a credibility crisis when two thirds of the country thinks he was misleading us?
DREIER: He has no credibility crisis.
NOVAK: Now wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Thirty-one percent is not even a third, Paul.
BEGALA: They gave us an accurate...
NOVAK: But you said he misled and it isn't misled.
BEGALA: When you tell somebody (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and the truth is...
NOVAK: Well, you're making your own interpretation.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: That's why they're trying to call this economic challenge we've gone through the Bush recession, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDERMOTT: Only a third...
NOVAK: All right. We have to take a break. And we're coming up next. And we'll come up with a "Rapid Fire," the fast questions about the French and the developments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for "Rapid Fire," where there is no time for diplomatic niceties. Just the facts. Talking to California Republican Congressman David Dreier and Washington state Democratic Congressman Jim McDermott -- Bob.
NOVAK: Congressman McDermott, if you were the president at the G-8, would you have kissed Jacques Chirac on the cheek?
MCDERMOTT: I probably would have kissed him on both cheeks.
BEGALA: Congressman Dreier, what good came of snubbing the French for so many months?
DREIER: Well, I don't think there was any good. Let me just say that, twice today, once off camera and one off camera, you've praised the president.
BEGALA: Yes. DREIER: In fact, you just praised him for his trip to the Middle East, and I think that's great, on top of praising him for his trip to Auschwitz. Thank you very much for that, Paul.
BEGALA: It's important for him to do both of those things. I do admire that.
NOVAK: Wasn't it a good priority, Congressman McDermott, to cut the president's stay at the G-8 short and leave the French behind him and go to the Arab -- to talk to the Arabs in Sharm El-Sheikh?
MCDERMOTT: I don't think there was any reason for him to cut the meeting short. He could have gone to Egypt whenever he wanted to, and they would wait.
It's sort of like when the chairman comes, the meeting begins. When David comes to the meeting, the meeting begins. The president would -- the meeting would begin when the president got there.
DREIER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) schedule, though.
BEGALA: Mr. Chairman, our president called President Putin a "good friend". Given the fact that Russia is supplying nuclear devices to the Iranians, is that really what a good friend does?
DREIER: Let me just say that we have a lot of good friends. He did not use the term "ally" yet. They're trying to strengthen and build this relationship, as we are with the French. And it is a challenge.
We know that. But I think he's on the right track in pursuing it.
NOVAK: Secretary of State Powell says that the United States will find weapons of mass destruction. Will you consider that good news or bad news?
MCDERMOTT: You mean if they find them?
NOVAK: Well, he says we will. And when that happens...
MCDERMOTT: We'll never find them.
NOVAK: Well, if it happens, would that be good news or bad news?
MCDERMOTT: They've been saying that since the very beginning.
NOVAK: You won't answer the question.
MCDERMOTT: And I said in September they were going to mislead the American people, and it's clear...
DREIER: Are you convinced that there are no weapons of mass destruction?
MCDERMOTT: Well, they certainly have not found them yet, and now they're bringing in 1,400 people from the United Nations looking for them.
BEGALA: Yes or no, do you support the call for a full investigation of the intelligence the president was given on that?
DREIER: Of course. Absolutely.
NOVAK: Thank you very much, Congressman McDermott, Chairman Dreier.
DREIER: Thank you.
NOVAK: Appreciate it. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
Time now to hear from our studio audience. Here's our ask the audience question of the day. Is it time to stop bashing the French? Vote on your CROSSFIRE audience voting device.
Press one for yes, it's time to stop bashing the French. Press two for no, keep up the French bashing. We'll have the results in a minute. Then in "Fireback" we'll hear from a viewer who just can't take a joke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now to tell you the results of our audience poll. We asked is it time to stop bashing the French.
We divided the results by Democrats and Republicans. It shows you again how Americans are divided. Almost all of the Democrats think it's time to stop. Eighty-four percent say, come on, get off it.
But most of the Republicans, 54 percent, say no. They want to keep on bashing, because that's what Republicans do best, bash. Right, Bob?
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: One of the great bashers of all time says no. OK.
BEGALA: Let's go to our "Fireback." The first "Fireback" is from James Mech in Farmington Hills, Michigan.
James writes: "Why boycott? The French were right. Iraq was not a threat to the U.S. and they had no weapons of mass destruction." Good point.
NOVAK: But they were very nasty. Very Frenchy.
BEGALA: Very French.
NOVAK: OK. The next question from Bob Fox of New York City. He says: "I love Howard Dean calling John Kerry a copycat. What's next, accusing him of stealing his lunch money?"
They are a little juvenile, Paul.
BEGALA: I can't defend that. I want him to go after Bush on the big ideas and the big issues. Lord knows he's made enough big mistakes. We don't need to make up our own.
Bill Webb in Oak Grove, California writes: "Bob, I heard you tell Paul the other day that you knew the American people were sick of him bashing President Bush. Are you ever wrong. We need another million of Paul to help bash him. The American people would be a lot better off if France just kept him."
NOVAK: You know, your cousin, Bill, is a very nice fellow.
Question from the audience?
BEGALA: Yes, ma'am?
EMILY: Hi. My name is Emily (ph) and I'm from Oxford, Ohio. And my question is, how do you feel the president's credibility will change if we do not find weapons of mass destruction, especially where the presidential debate -- or presidential election for next year is concerned, as well as foreign policy?
NOVAK: I'll make a prediction. I don't make too many predictions, but that will not be an issue in the presidential election, guarantee it.
BEGALA: I make the opposite prediction. Bush's lack of credibility, how he misled us about tax cuts...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: No, it's his credibility. How can you tell when George Bush is misleading us? His lips are moving. That's...
NOVAK: Question?
CASEY HOBBS: My name is Casey Hobbs (ph). I'm from Moab, Utah attending (UNINTELLIGIBLE) State University in Kansas. I'd like to know what's wrong with the Democratic Party, when somebody that isn't running is leading the polls, like Hillary Clinton?
BEGALA: That's what's right about Hillary Clinton. By the way, her book is coming out I think this week. Everybody ought to buy it. It's going to be the best book in the country.
It just shows that we love Hillary. Democrats have good taste.
NOVAK: That's the worst bunch of Democratic candidates since 1920.
BEGALA: No, don't underestimate them.
NOVAK: And I covered them, so I know. BEGALA: I would not underestimate them. You'll see. From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Right Decision?>
Aired June 2, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left: James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right: Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson. In the CROSSFIRE, are these guys friends, or what?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people in both our countries wondering whether or not we can actually sit down and have a comfortable conversation. And the answer is absolutely.
ANNOUNCER: So is it time to stop bashing France, or were the French right all along?
JACQUES CHIRAC, FRENCH PRESIDENT: Exactement.
Plus, more sniping on the left. And did the FCC make the right decision? Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(APPLAUSE)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush says, "It's time to move on" and put his rift with French President Jacques Chirac behind him. But did the long presidential hissy fit accomplish anything other than to subject America to international ridicule for stunts like freedom fries and freedom toast? We will debate that topic with our congressmen in just a minute. But first, the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE Political Alert.
President Bush promised to "reduce tax rates for everyone who pays income tax." In fact, that's a direct quote from our president. But experts who have read the fine print have discovered that Mr. Bush has broken that promise. Moms and dads who make less than $26,000 a year are excluded from the child tax credit, and 8 million other people who pay income taxes will receive nothing at all.
Many of them heads of households who make up to $50,000 a year but don't have young children or income from dividends or capital gains. They will see no tax cut whatsoever.
Perhaps the most outrageous, many of those who get nothing from Mr. Bush's tax cut are soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines on active duty. Thank god they believe in honoring their commitments more than our commander in chief does.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Well, I'm glad to see that you've returned from the weekend with your nightly attack on our president. Let me try to explain this to you. And read my lips on this, please.
People who don't have children do not get a children's tax credit. That's the way it works. If you have children, you get the children's tax credit. If you don't, you don't get it.
It has nothing to do with, we're going to eliminate people who are in low income. If they have children, they get the children's tax credit.
BEGALA: Except that's not true. Twelve million children, they don't get anything. Nothing. And 8 million more get nothing.
NOVAK: But if they pay taxes...
BEGALA: That's just not true, Bob. That's what he promised, but he broke his promise. That's what the experts say.
NOVAK: You understand it.
The Federal Communications Commission today relaxed regulations on owning newspapers and television stations. Regulations written before talk radio, before cable television, before programs like this one. The vote was three to two along party lines.
Republicans voted for economic freedom. Democrats for government regulation. A strong supporter of this change is News Corp (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Robert Murdoch, whose Fox News channel is CNN's big competitor. On the other side is CNN founder Ted Turner. Now, if I am on Murdoch's side and not Turner's, what does that say about opponents of this change who claim the media (UNINTELLIGIBLE) control of the people who work for them?
BEGALA: It says a lot about CNN and about Fox. I don't hear any anchor on Fox criticizing what's in Fox's interest. I will say that CNN is a big corporation. They've never tried to sensor me or you, I'm sure.
NOVAK: They have never.
BEGALA: But it says a lot, also, about our president. I just talked about how he broke his promise to middle income taxpayers. He's kept his promise to the big conglomerates. He's giving them everything they want.
NOVAK: Well you try to attack Bush all the time.
BEGALA: He kept one promise to the big conglomerates. NOVAK: Since we have some extra time, I'm going to tell you this. If you pay income taxes -- if you pay income taxes and you have children, you get a children's tax credit.
BEGALA: But that's just not true.
NOVAK: It is true. You don't understand it.
BEGALA: Budget experts who have looked at this say 8 million income tax payers get no income tax cuts.
NOVAK: It's the demagogues who have looked at it.
BEGALA: Read my lips.
Anyway, accompanied by our first lady, President Bush this weekend walked the last half mile of the train tracks in the Nazi death camp of Auschwitz. He also visited the crematorium and wrote in a guest book the phrase "never forget."
God bless George W. Bush for doing that. I don't often praise him, but he deserves praise now. He's in the Middle East also today planning for an Israeli-Palestinian summit. But here at home, the "Chicago Tribune" ran this cartoon depicting our president genuflecting before Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.
Mr. Sharon in the cartoon has an exaggeratedly large nose, a star of David on his coat, is apparently only interested in the money the cartoon figure Mr. Bush is laying before him. The cartoonist, by the name of Dick Locher, has a perfect right to free speech. And I have a perfect right to call him on a cartoon that is offensive and borders on anti-Semitic.
Shame on him. This is not the paper that Mr. Novak was in. It's the competitor of the very fine paper that runs your column, Bob.
NOVAK: "Chicago Sun-Times" my paper. Paul, I'm glad to hear you say something nice about George W. Bush. It happens about once a year or once every two years, perhaps.
I thought that cartoon was tasteless. But the thing that worries me, I don't like to see every time somebody criticizes this Israeli government to be called anti-Semitic.
BEGALA: That's a fair point.
NOVAK: I think it's a danger.
BEGALA: That's a fair point, but -- and the president's is doing the right thing on Israel right now, and that cartoon demeans him and he shouldn't have run it.
NOVAK: Yes.
In the Democratic forum in Lake Placid, New York over the weekend, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts tried to make clear he's not moderate, not centrist and certainly not nonpartisan. He declared, "The one thing this country doesn't need is a second Republican Party."
The former Vermont governor, Howard Dean, competing with Kerry for the presidential nomination, protested, saying, "I appreciate Senator Kerry saying we don't need Bush light, and we don't, but Senator Kerry, we don't need Dean light either." Said Dean of Kerry, "I heard he did a great job giving my speech."
In the great tradition of George McGovern and Fritz Mondale, Democrats are racing each other to the left and maybe to oblivion.
BEGALA: You've seen a lot of campaigns. That's a fair comment. These guys ought to be talking about big ideas and big issues of taking on George W. Bush.
You know Howard Dean's best campaign line is when he stole from Paul Wellstone -- he (ph) very rarely acknowledges. He says, "I'm for the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."
That's not what Democrats ought to be fighting about. We ought to talk about how George W. Bush has ruined the economy and ruined our foreign policy and how we ought to make America great again instead of this petty nonsense.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Maybe they need you as their propaganda. I know they don't need you because you do it here every night. That's right.
BEGALA: I'm out of that business. I don't run anything bigger than my mouth. I don't run any campaigns anymore. That's it.
NOVAK: OK. After all the French bashing in America, the handshakes certainly looked sincere. But can President Bush and French President Jacques Chirac work together? And does the U.S. even need France as a partner in the first place?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: At the G-8 summit today, President Bush and French President Jacques Chirac went out of their way to try to demonstrate that they have a unity of purpose. With President Chirac sitting nearby, President Bush told reporters that, despite their recent nastiness concerning the war in Iraq, the U.S. and France now maintain good relations because the two leaders have been, "very honest with each other."
Now, really, haven't the U.S. and France -- have they really kissed and made up? In the CROSSFIRE, Congressman Jim McDermott, Democrat of Washington. He went to Iraq before the war and criticized President Bush's policies. And Congressman David Dreier, Republican of California, chairman of the powerful House Rules Committee -- Paul.
BEGALA: Gentlemen, thank you both.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Mr. Chairman, let me start with you. "The New York Times" this weekend had a fascinating story, looking at the body language that our president uses. I know him a little bit back when he was my governor. He's a very touchy-feely guy. He does express himself physically a lot.
Here's him shaking hands with President Chirac. It's cool, professional, but not particularly warm. Now, here he is with Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, holding hands in a very -- a friendly way, showing a close relationship.
Here he is with President Mubarak of Egypt just today. Let's put that picture up there of our president with President Mubarak from Egypt. And he's holding hands with him. I don't know if you can see it in this shot; he's holding hands and walking, strolling blissfully with President Mubarak.
Why is our president so cool toward free Democratic leaders and so cozy with Middle East dictators?
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: Bon jour. Comment ca va? Let me just say -- let me say that I did see him pat Jacques Chirac on the back. So that didn't make the clip that you all showed.
Let me say there clearly has been tension between France and the United States. We all know that. But I will tell you that the day after September 11, on September 12, 2001, I'll never forget the headline in "Le Monde", a liberal publication which said, "We're all Americans today."
We've had a bumpy relationship with France for a long period of time. You can look at the Suez Canal. I can remember in 1987, '86, when Ronald Reagan tried to fly over France to go and hit Muammar Gadhafi.
This has been a challenging relationship. But I argue, Paul, that we have more in common with France and Western Europe than we do in opposition. And I think we can improve things.
NOVAK: Congressman Jim McDermott, there were a lot of countries that didn't agree with the U.S. on going into Iraq. But France was really nasty about it. Much nastier than Russia, much nastier than China, much nastier than the European countries. It's a little hard to be nice to people who have gone over the line with you, against you, isn't it?
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: No. You have to. In this business, one day you're with me, tomorrow you're against me. The next day you're with me.
I can't take it personally. The president took is too personally.
NOVAK: Don't you think France is a little different, though, than the other countries I mentioned? MCDERMOTT: Germany. I mean, if you want to say -- the word out on the street is that we're going to punish France, ignore Germany and reward the Russians. I mean, what kind of simple-minded politics is that?
The president of the United States should not treat...
DREIER: That's not the U.S. policy, Jim. That's not the U.S. policy.
MCDERMOTT: Well, that's the way they're acting.
DREIER: Yes. Well, I mean that's clearly not policy.
BEGALA: Why are we mad -- why is the president mad at the French, when it was the French who said Saddam Hussein does not have the mighty war machine that Mr. Bush said they did. It was the French who said they either don't have or won't use weapons of mass destruction. They French were right, weren't they, Congressman?
DREIER: No, the French weren't right. But I will tell you this, the president went to the G-8 summit. He went to France.
I know there are many Americans who are angry at the fact that the president of the United States, in light of the treatment that we got, even did that. He said when he sat down with Jacques Chirac...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... weapons of mass destruction.
DREIER: No they weren't. Do you know that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?
BEGALA: No. But they certainly didn't use them.
DREIER: Are you confident of that?
BEGALA: No.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: You know that there are no weapons there?
BEGALA: But they didn't use them. We know they didn't use them. And either he didn't have them or was too nice a guy.
NOVAK: Never make the mistake of asking him a question.
DREIER: Yes. I'm afraid to ask a question.
BEGALA: They either didn't have it or he was too nice a guy to use them.
DREIER: Listen, I mean we saw in today's Post an Iraqi scientist who came out and talked about the dual use, commercial use and the fact that these weapons have been hidden.
BEGALA: Right.
DREIER: The fact is, if you look at where we're going here, I think the president has been very courageous in stepping forward and trying to build back the relationship with Western Europe.
NOVAK: Congressman McDermott, the French were against us attacking Iraq, whether they have weapons of mass destruction or not. I think you were against it.
I don't think you said, boy, if they have the weapons, we ought to attack. But I want to show you what the American people think on a poll that was just taken by CNN-"USA Today" Gallup.
"Was the attack on Iraq justified?" Only if weapons are found, 23 percent. Justified even if no weapons were found, 56 percent. Isn't that interesting?
MCDERMOTT: It shows how good the PR machine has been out of the White House.
(APPLAUSE)
MCDERMOTT: They convinced the American people that Saddam Hussein was a member of al Qaeda. They convinced...
DREIER: They never said that Saddam Hussein was a member of al Qaeda. They never indicated that he was involved in command and control of September 11. We do know...
(CROSSTALK)
MCDERMOTT: I let you talk. Now you be quiet for a minute.
The fact is that they have confused the people to the point where people think they've actually found weapons of mass destruction. They find two empty trucks, and they say...
NOVAK: (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They say even if no weapons are found -- they think he's a brutal dictator, don't they?
MCDERMOTT: I understand that they want the president to succeed. Because he's the only security we have, which is frightening in itself. If I were -- I'd want somebody leading us somewhere.
BEGALA: Congressman Dreier, we do all want the president to succeed.
DREIER: Absolutely. Of course we do.
BEGALA: And of course I think we can agree we don't want the president to mislead. The same poll that Bob cited asked another question of the American people just reported today by CNN.
It asked them, "Did the president mislead us into this war?" If you look here, about a third of us think, well, he did give us accurate information. But two thirds say he either gave us inaccurate information with honest intent, because he's misinformed, or he deliberately misled us. Doesn't this man have a credibility crisis when two thirds of the country thinks he was misleading us?
DREIER: He has no credibility crisis.
NOVAK: Now wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Thirty-one percent is not even a third, Paul.
BEGALA: They gave us an accurate...
NOVAK: But you said he misled and it isn't misled.
BEGALA: When you tell somebody (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and the truth is...
NOVAK: Well, you're making your own interpretation.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: That's why they're trying to call this economic challenge we've gone through the Bush recession, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
MCDERMOTT: Only a third...
NOVAK: All right. We have to take a break. And we're coming up next. And we'll come up with a "Rapid Fire," the fast questions about the French and the developments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now for "Rapid Fire," where there is no time for diplomatic niceties. Just the facts. Talking to California Republican Congressman David Dreier and Washington state Democratic Congressman Jim McDermott -- Bob.
NOVAK: Congressman McDermott, if you were the president at the G-8, would you have kissed Jacques Chirac on the cheek?
MCDERMOTT: I probably would have kissed him on both cheeks.
BEGALA: Congressman Dreier, what good came of snubbing the French for so many months?
DREIER: Well, I don't think there was any good. Let me just say that, twice today, once off camera and one off camera, you've praised the president.
BEGALA: Yes. DREIER: In fact, you just praised him for his trip to the Middle East, and I think that's great, on top of praising him for his trip to Auschwitz. Thank you very much for that, Paul.
BEGALA: It's important for him to do both of those things. I do admire that.
NOVAK: Wasn't it a good priority, Congressman McDermott, to cut the president's stay at the G-8 short and leave the French behind him and go to the Arab -- to talk to the Arabs in Sharm El-Sheikh?
MCDERMOTT: I don't think there was any reason for him to cut the meeting short. He could have gone to Egypt whenever he wanted to, and they would wait.
It's sort of like when the chairman comes, the meeting begins. When David comes to the meeting, the meeting begins. The president would -- the meeting would begin when the president got there.
DREIER: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) schedule, though.
BEGALA: Mr. Chairman, our president called President Putin a "good friend". Given the fact that Russia is supplying nuclear devices to the Iranians, is that really what a good friend does?
DREIER: Let me just say that we have a lot of good friends. He did not use the term "ally" yet. They're trying to strengthen and build this relationship, as we are with the French. And it is a challenge.
We know that. But I think he's on the right track in pursuing it.
NOVAK: Secretary of State Powell says that the United States will find weapons of mass destruction. Will you consider that good news or bad news?
MCDERMOTT: You mean if they find them?
NOVAK: Well, he says we will. And when that happens...
MCDERMOTT: We'll never find them.
NOVAK: Well, if it happens, would that be good news or bad news?
MCDERMOTT: They've been saying that since the very beginning.
NOVAK: You won't answer the question.
MCDERMOTT: And I said in September they were going to mislead the American people, and it's clear...
DREIER: Are you convinced that there are no weapons of mass destruction?
MCDERMOTT: Well, they certainly have not found them yet, and now they're bringing in 1,400 people from the United Nations looking for them.
BEGALA: Yes or no, do you support the call for a full investigation of the intelligence the president was given on that?
DREIER: Of course. Absolutely.
NOVAK: Thank you very much, Congressman McDermott, Chairman Dreier.
DREIER: Thank you.
NOVAK: Appreciate it. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
Time now to hear from our studio audience. Here's our ask the audience question of the day. Is it time to stop bashing the French? Vote on your CROSSFIRE audience voting device.
Press one for yes, it's time to stop bashing the French. Press two for no, keep up the French bashing. We'll have the results in a minute. Then in "Fireback" we'll hear from a viewer who just can't take a joke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Time now to tell you the results of our audience poll. We asked is it time to stop bashing the French.
We divided the results by Democrats and Republicans. It shows you again how Americans are divided. Almost all of the Democrats think it's time to stop. Eighty-four percent say, come on, get off it.
But most of the Republicans, 54 percent, say no. They want to keep on bashing, because that's what Republicans do best, bash. Right, Bob?
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: One of the great bashers of all time says no. OK.
BEGALA: Let's go to our "Fireback." The first "Fireback" is from James Mech in Farmington Hills, Michigan.
James writes: "Why boycott? The French were right. Iraq was not a threat to the U.S. and they had no weapons of mass destruction." Good point.
NOVAK: But they were very nasty. Very Frenchy.
BEGALA: Very French.
NOVAK: OK. The next question from Bob Fox of New York City. He says: "I love Howard Dean calling John Kerry a copycat. What's next, accusing him of stealing his lunch money?"
They are a little juvenile, Paul.
BEGALA: I can't defend that. I want him to go after Bush on the big ideas and the big issues. Lord knows he's made enough big mistakes. We don't need to make up our own.
Bill Webb in Oak Grove, California writes: "Bob, I heard you tell Paul the other day that you knew the American people were sick of him bashing President Bush. Are you ever wrong. We need another million of Paul to help bash him. The American people would be a lot better off if France just kept him."
NOVAK: You know, your cousin, Bill, is a very nice fellow.
Question from the audience?
BEGALA: Yes, ma'am?
EMILY: Hi. My name is Emily (ph) and I'm from Oxford, Ohio. And my question is, how do you feel the president's credibility will change if we do not find weapons of mass destruction, especially where the presidential debate -- or presidential election for next year is concerned, as well as foreign policy?
NOVAK: I'll make a prediction. I don't make too many predictions, but that will not be an issue in the presidential election, guarantee it.
BEGALA: I make the opposite prediction. Bush's lack of credibility, how he misled us about tax cuts...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: No, it's his credibility. How can you tell when George Bush is misleading us? His lips are moving. That's...
NOVAK: Question?
CASEY HOBBS: My name is Casey Hobbs (ph). I'm from Moab, Utah attending (UNINTELLIGIBLE) State University in Kansas. I'd like to know what's wrong with the Democratic Party, when somebody that isn't running is leading the polls, like Hillary Clinton?
BEGALA: That's what's right about Hillary Clinton. By the way, her book is coming out I think this week. Everybody ought to buy it. It's going to be the best book in the country.
It just shows that we love Hillary. Democrats have good taste.
NOVAK: That's the worst bunch of Democratic candidates since 1920.
BEGALA: No, don't underestimate them.
NOVAK: And I covered them, so I know. BEGALA: I would not underestimate them. You'll see. From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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