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CNN Crossfire
Political Tricks and Treats
Aired October 31, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: President Bush's big week.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I intend to keep America on the path to prosperity.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: From the economy, to Iraq, to reconstruction money, to the banner on the aircraft carrier, we'll sort out the political tricks and treats -- today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE and happy Halloween! On just about every front this week, it's been a treat for President Bush. Can you imagine anything scarier if you're a Democrat?
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, yes, four more years a jobless economy and endless occupation, for one.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But I wonder if President Bush will put on his fighter pilot costume tonight and tell us if the increase in attacks against our troops is really a sign of progress.
We will debate one of the more amazing weeks of the Bush presidency right after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
In music, Condoleezza means "with sweetness." But Condoleezza Rice was downright bitter in her attack on former President Bill Clinton yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Until September 11, the terrorists faced no sustained and systematic and global response. They became emboldened. And the result was more terror and more victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Of course, before Dr. Rice took office, President Clinton's national security adviser told her that al Qaeda terrorism would be her greatest challenge. Dr. Rice did nothing.
Counterterrorism expert Dick Clark presented Dr. Rice with a Clinton administration plan to wage of war on al Qaeda. Dr. Rice did nothing. And, in August of 2001, U.S. intelligence reportedly warned the president of an al Qaeda plot to hijack airplanes. Again, Dr. Rice did nothing. So, instead of bitterly blaming others for her failures and her boss', perhaps Dr. Rice should, sweetly, resign.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I guess if you in any way criticize Bill Clinton, then you have to resign, according to the Begala rule.
But did you know, Paul, that Dick Clarke, after the terrorist attack on the USS Clarke (sic) that Dick Clarke wanted to go after bin Laden and he couldn't get one other vote in the Clinton administration? Not one.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: What happened -- what happened was, that was at the end of Clinton's term and he turned it over to Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Bill Gore and Al Gore may not be welcomed campaigning in next Tuesday's elections for governor of Kentucky and Mississippi. But they are very welcome in the Philadelphia mayor's race. The former president and vice president will be there over the next three days to help Democratic Mayor John Street's reelection.
This race got national headlines when it was revealed that the FBI had listening devices in Mayor Street's office as part of an investigation of the pay-to-play culture at city hall. When this was published, polls immediately showed the mayor spurting ahead of his reform Republican foe. It sure sound like Philadelphia is just the kind of city where Clinton and Gore would go over very big.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, it's certainly the kind of place where alleged dirty tricks don't go over so well.
You know, Attorney General John Ashcroft, a longtime right-wing political hack, is responsible for what his Justice Department and FBI does. He won't tell us why the mayor's office was bugged a few weeks before an election. I think we have a right to know that.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You are saying the FBI is corrupt?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I am saying they haven't told us why they have done it.
NOVAK: You said it's dirty tricks.
BEGALA: Alleged dirty tricks.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Well, that's just a smear, then. You have no fact to back that up.
BEGALA: So what? He bugged the mayor's office, Bob. They won't tell us why. He's not the target of an investigation.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: It's in the middle of an investigation.
BEGALA: Ah, it smells.
Well, the Center For Public Integrity has released a report that proves giant corporations that gave big money to President Bush are winning the lion's share of the contracts to rebuild Iraq. What a shock.
Executive director of the center, Charles Lewis, says -- quote -- "There is a stench of political favoritism and cronyism" -- unquote. But just to make the stench even worse, the Pentagon has once again extended the no-bid, $1.6 billion and counting contract for Halliburton, which was the firm once run by Dick Cheney and from whom Vice President Dick Cheney still receives a check for deferred compensation.
The message? If Halliburton can't rip us off, then the terrorists have won.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Paul, I am sure you know that Dick Cheney's deferred compensation has nothing to do with what future earnings of the company are. If they go broke, he still gets the deferred compensation.
But I wonder if you can tell me, right now, if another company that could do the kind of work that Halliburton is doing in Iraq. Just name the company.
BEGALA: Two. Two. I have Bechtel and Schlumberger. That's two.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Well, you're wrong. They can't do it.
BEGALA: They should compete for that contract. That should be an open bid and they should compete for it. That's the capitalist system. Call me a capitalist, which I am. I think they should compete fair and square, instead of these alleged crony deals, which the Center For Public Integrity
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Do you know the Pentagon says, that they are -- there's no other company who is able to do that kind of work?
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: That's baloney.
NOVAK: Former -- polls show that former Republican National Chairman Haley Barbour is moving ahead in Mississippi against Democratic Governor Ronnie Musgrove's bid for reelection. But is Musgrove a Democrat? While Barbour describes himself as Republican and conservative, Musgrove calls himself independent and conservative, never mentioning the word Democrat.
The South is no place for Democrats or liberals. Musgrove claims to be pro-life, pro-gun and anti-tax. What's Democratic about him? He's bankrolled by the trial lawyers lobby. And he apparently attended the Carville-Begala advance school of political invective, accusing Haley Barbour of wanting to poison Mississippi's children.
Funny. After that outrageous attack on him, Barbour got his biggest lead so far in the polls.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, you tell me, Bob. Haley Barbour was a Washington lobbyist for cigarette companies. And, by the way, Musgrove didn't say he wants to. He said he served cigarette companies that poisoned our children. That's a fact.
He also appeared in a photograph for the Conservative Citizens Council, which the Anti-Defamation League says is a racist group. That's playing the race card by Haley Barbour.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Well, that's not true. The Conservative Citizens Council put his name without his permission on their Web site.
Strong numbers are out on the economy. And Congress is moving toward approval of the president's funding plan for Iraq. It's been a big week, Paul, for President Bush.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Should Democrats push the panic button?
(BELL RINGING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: President Bush's Halloween bag got a lot of goodies this week. The U.S. economy is growing at the fastest rate since 1984. Inflation is low. The military is slowly, but surely finding out who's behind the violence in Iraq. And on Capitol Hill, the president's $87 billion military aid and construction bill for Iraq is moving toward final passage in the form that he wanted.
In the CROSSFIRE to discuss the president's big week, Democratic strategist Vic Kamber, Republican strategist Terry Holt.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Guys, thanks a lot. Happy Halloween!
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I have no idea, Terry, why Bob is crowing so much about the president's week. It was a remarkable week, not altogether good, clearly good economic news. We will get to that in a minute.
But a really remarkable press conference. And I hope the president does every day, at least every week, because he showed spectacular arrogance. Before the press conference, in fact, he said that 40 people being killed and 200 wounded was a sign of the progress that we're making in Iraq. This prompted a lot of calls for maybe medical attention or a checkup from the neck up.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: But that's not just from the left.
Frank Wolf is a conservative Republican from the conservative state of Virginia. Here's what he says about the administration: "They're a lot of people here who have tried to be a strong supporter of this administration, doing everything they possibly could. But you bump up against a degree of arrogance over and over again."
Now, how do you respond to Congressman Wolf?
TERRY HOLT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, Congressman Wolf has a right to his own opinion.
But I think something else this week that people ought to pay attention to. For the first time, the terrorists that are placing car bombs -- excuse me, Bob -- in Iraq bombed the Red Cross. And for anybody who didn't know that these people were terrorists, this was a clear signal. And I think for people that didn't get it before that these thugs are willing to kill people who are saving people's lives in Iraq shows you exactly the kind of people that we are up against.
But this was a good week. Economic growth, only bizarre liberals didn't get it that tax cuts going into the economy wouldn't create growth in this economy. So I think you are missing a lot of the bigger points.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This question of arrogance from his own allies is really quite stunning, isn't it?
HOLT: Well, in the Republican Party, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't know how to works over in the Democratic Party.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Vic, I don't expect Paul Begala to show any kind of objectivity. But I expect more from you. I have known you -- I knew you when you were a Republican, even.
VIC KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Let's be careful.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Did you know he used to be a Republican?
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: It was a different lifetime -- a liberal Republican.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Vic, seriously, the Democratic Party is just predicated on bad news. You want the economy to fall. You want the idea of the country wanting to get out of Iraq. Aren't you in a position now where you're the Bad News Bears and any time you get good news, like 7.2 percent growth rate, you say, oh, it doesn't matter, it doesn't count?
KAMBER: Bob, today is Halloween, right? I mean, it is Halloween.
NOVAK: It sure is.
KAMBER: And the president has been wearing a mask for three years. He calls the mask compassion. And it's trick or treat. And all we've had is tricks from this man for three years, no treats. For one week, to suggest...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: For one week, to suggest that the economy was OK, yes, we have 57,000 new jobs announced in September. We lost 87,000 in August. So only a net loss of 30,000. That's good news for this president. I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I think you are making my point that you are predicated on bad news. You can't have good news. You want a bad economy.
(APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: Not at all. No. I want Bill Clinton's economy back, which was good news, Bob. I want the things that made...
HOLT: With the corporate scandals and all.
KAMBER: The corporate scandals weren't under Bill Clinton. They are under this president, the corporate scandals.
HOLT: I see.
BEGALA: Terry, let me come back to that press conference.
HOLT: Sure.
BEGALA: But it really was. It was wonderful. I am going to play more of it. This is probably the last day CNN will allow me to continue to play the stirring words of our president, speaking with such a forked tongue about that infamous banner. Banner-gate is now in day four or five, I think. He was asked about the banner that declared "Mission Accomplished."
HOLT: Sure.
BEGALA: Which was clearly false. Here is how our president responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The "Mission Accomplished" sign, of course, was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their mission was accomplished. I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Now, I guess this is a two-part question. First off, what's the morality of the commander in chief blaming his sailors for his mistakes and, it turns out, falsely doing so? That was a fib. It was fabrication. It was a falsehood. His own White House crew made that sign. And he knew that or should have known it at the time he said that. Why blame the sailors?
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: Do you want the leader of the free world to be in charge of logistics?
BEGALA: I want him not to blame his sailors, who have risked their lives for our country.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: But the fact of the matter is...
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Thank you.
The USS Abraham Lincoln had been on the longest deployments. And its mission had been accomplished. What's false with that? I don't accept your premise.
KAMBER: Terry, why not just say we made a mistake and get on with it?
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: I don't see the mistake.
KAMBER: There was a mistake.
HOLT: The Abraham Lincoln was coming home. They put their life in harm's way. What's wrong with saying mission accomplished?
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, let me take another part. There's a lot of people in the country who don't give a damn. Banner-gate is just a
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: It's a silly thing. But they do care about taxes.
And let's see what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Just as the economy's coming around, some over in Washington say now is the time to raise taxes. To be fair, they think any time is a good time to raise taxes.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: At least they're consistent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, Mr. Kamber, isn't it true the Democratic Party, everybody in the Democrats wants to raise taxes? It depends on who you are talking to, whether it's just on the top bracket. Some of them want to raise them on everybody. Do you think that's good politics?
KAMBER: Well, first of all, I don't know -- when you say everybody, I don't what you are talking about. NOVAK: All the presidential candidates.
KAMBER: No, no. There are a number candidates who say we should eliminate the tax cuts that were made.
NOVAK: That's a raising of taxes, when the cuts are already there.
KAMBER: They're eight years from now, the cuts are coming. So they're not raising taxes.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: ... came within the last quarter.
KAMBER: We are talking about a 10-year tax cut program. And there are there Democrats who are saying we should eliminate the future of those tax cuts.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: That's a tax increase.
KAMBER: How is it a tax increase, Bob?
NOVAK: You don't understand how, if you say we're going to pay at a higher rate next year
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: We're going to pay at the rate that the Republicans passed
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: If you're going to pay at a higher rate next year than you paid this year, that's not a tax increase?
KAMBER: But the point is, Bob, we cut the tax rate in the future. We don't -- we are having the biggest deficits that have ever happened in the history of this country.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So higher taxes?
KAMBER: Our economy is in the pits, in spite of the one month, Bob, of growth, one month of growth out of 35 or 36. The economy is in the pits and you are worried about whether a multibillionaire is going to pay a penny or two more?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: One month of growth? One quarter.
BEGALA: Terry? HOLT: Yes, sir.
BEGALA: Unemployment is still above 6 percent. How low does it have to go for George W. Bush to win reelection, or can he win with 6 percent, three million Americans out of work?
HOLT: Well, the president talked about the benefits of cutting taxes in this economy, but he also was quick to point out that we need more job growth.
BEGALA: How many jobs do we need?
HOLT: And we need a lot of jobs. People need to be put back to work. Everybody who wants to work should be able to. That's been a basic tenet, a fundamental policy, of President Bush, since before he was president.
BEGALA: We're three million in the hole.
HOLT: So I think that it would be a very important accomplishment to get some jobs back into this economy.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Vic, hold your response.
Terry, hold that thought just for a minute.
And just so that nobody can accuse me of tricking my friend Terry Holt, when we come back, in our "Rapid Fire" segment, I am going to ask him just how Halliburton got that $1.6 billion treat from the Bush administration without having to compete for it.
And then, right after the break, Judy Woodruff will have the latest on threats being made in Iraq to launch a series of terror attacks beginning as early as this weekend.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
BEGALA: Time here now on CROSSFIRE for "Rapid Fire," which is maybe not as compelling, but a little bit like a trick-or-treat bag, except we try to fill it with as many questions as possible in this brief amount of time.
Our guests, Republican strategist Terry Holt and Democratic strategist Vic Kamber.
NOVAK: Vic, since the Democrats say things are going so badly in Iraq, do you think Democratic presidential candidates should say, let's get out of Iraq right now?
KAMBER: Several have. I am not sure I agree with that totally, given the military's commitment.
NOVAK: Well, that wasn't the question. Should they?
KAMBER: Well, should they say it? I think they should say what they believe. And we've had all nine say what they believe. And most -- all of them completely have disagreed with the president's policy that got us there. We're now into different degrees of what we do to get out.
BEGALA: Terry, to avoid what one ethics expert calls the stench of political favoritism and cronyism, should Halliburton have been required to compete for that no-bid contract?
HOLT: Well, Halliburton has to first be able to do the job. And those contracts should only go to companies that can do the job responsibly, and effectively.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Wouldn't a bidding process prove who could do the job?
HOLT: The demonization of a company that does good work all over the country, for the purpose of politics, is getting little old.
I think that, if Halliburton can do the job, then they should do it. And I'll say also, no-bid, competitive, Democrats and Republicans on the Hill, over time, with government, have both agreed that sometimes competitive bidding isn't the best way to get the right job done, both Republicans and Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Vic, from the standpoint of the Democrats, what is the income level at which they should be deprived of tax cuts, under the Democratic philosophy, $75,000 for a couple, $100,000, $125,000? What is it?
KAMBER: I have no idea, Bob, what the numbers should be, in those sense. I'm not an economist.
NOVAK: It doesn't matter, huh?
KAMBER: It does matter tremendously, but I have no idea what the answer is to that question. I'm not even sure what the question was, Bob.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Terry, is it right -- good question.
Is it right to ignore and dishonor the sacrifice of our war dead by denying their families the welcoming ceremonies that have been traditional and been covered by the media when the caskets come home, as this administration has done? HOLT: Well, I'm not even aware of that story. I can't respond to that. I think the military makes those decisions. And a Republican strategist shouldn't have some kind of ill-conceived thought.
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: But I would like to say something about that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I've got to say something, because Terry is about to switch hats here from being a Republican strategist generally to a big promotion, a great gig. He's going to be the chief spokesman for the Bush-Cheney '04 reelection campaign.
Terry, best of luck to you. We hope you come back a lot.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: Thank you. And, Paul, I wanted to
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: This is not a Halloween costume.
On election night in 2003, some of you might have remembered that James' old friend -- or Carville -- in 2003 wore a garbage can on his head. This is a little bit more dignified for 2004.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: If your guy wins, I will wear this. If the Democrat wins, you wear the Democratic hat, Terry. Come back on CNN.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: OK, thank you, Vic Kamber.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Good job. Thank you, Vic.
Thank you, Terry. Congratulations.
NOVAK: On this Halloween, we have a question about a political poltergeist. Which first lady dressed up as a ghost to scare a group of children in the Lincoln Bedroom of the White House? It wasn't Bill Clinton. It's a first lady. Rosalynn Carter, Barbara Bush, or Hillary Clinton?
We will have the answer right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to this Halloween edition of CROSSFIRE.
Before the break, we asked you this trivia question. Which first lady dressed up like a ghost and scared a bunch of kids in the Lincoln Bedroom? Well, we asked our audience to vote on it. We'll test their knowledge. Was it Rosalynn Carter? Thirty-nine percent. Most folks thought it was Barbara Bush, though. Actually, it was Ms. Carter, Rosalynn Carter. Amy was a child and her friends were over. It's kind of a nice, fun thing to do.
NOVAK: Now, one of them might have been more appropriate as a witch, wouldn't you think?
BEGALA: No, these are three wonderful women.
NOVAK: I wouldn't say which. Did I say which one?
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: By the way, Barbara Bush's new book, people say is great.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I wasn't talking about Barbara Bush. Anyway...
BEGALA: Well, wait a minute.
NOVAK: Anne Sorensen of Salt Lake City, Utah, says: "Trick or treat. Democrats are locked in ghosts of elections past costumes, wearing masks of Dukakis and McGovern."
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Isn't the whole idea of Dukakis and McGovern scary to the Democratic Party, horrifying?
BEGALA: I have no idea what Anne Sorensen is talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: You don't?
BEGALA: We have a president who says it's progress when 40 people are killed. We need a new president. That's all I know.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Anita in Washington, D.C. says: "I was repulsed by our president patting himself on the back yesterday, when he announced the GDP increase. What a joke. I've been out of work since October 2001 with no prospect in sight. I received no tax cuts, can't by anything I want, have lost all of my retirement, can barely pay my mortgage. And I'm not alone."
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know what I would tell Anita? I would say, suck it up and stop whining.
BEGALA: From the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE. Happy Halloween.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
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Aired October 31, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: President Bush's big week.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I intend to keep America on the path to prosperity.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: From the economy, to Iraq, to reconstruction money, to the banner on the aircraft carrier, we'll sort out the political tricks and treats -- today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE and happy Halloween! On just about every front this week, it's been a treat for President Bush. Can you imagine anything scarier if you're a Democrat?
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, yes, four more years a jobless economy and endless occupation, for one.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But I wonder if President Bush will put on his fighter pilot costume tonight and tell us if the increase in attacks against our troops is really a sign of progress.
We will debate one of the more amazing weeks of the Bush presidency right after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
In music, Condoleezza means "with sweetness." But Condoleezza Rice was downright bitter in her attack on former President Bill Clinton yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Until September 11, the terrorists faced no sustained and systematic and global response. They became emboldened. And the result was more terror and more victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Of course, before Dr. Rice took office, President Clinton's national security adviser told her that al Qaeda terrorism would be her greatest challenge. Dr. Rice did nothing.
Counterterrorism expert Dick Clark presented Dr. Rice with a Clinton administration plan to wage of war on al Qaeda. Dr. Rice did nothing. And, in August of 2001, U.S. intelligence reportedly warned the president of an al Qaeda plot to hijack airplanes. Again, Dr. Rice did nothing. So, instead of bitterly blaming others for her failures and her boss', perhaps Dr. Rice should, sweetly, resign.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I guess if you in any way criticize Bill Clinton, then you have to resign, according to the Begala rule.
But did you know, Paul, that Dick Clarke, after the terrorist attack on the USS Clarke (sic) that Dick Clarke wanted to go after bin Laden and he couldn't get one other vote in the Clinton administration? Not one.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: What happened -- what happened was, that was at the end of Clinton's term and he turned it over to Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Bill Gore and Al Gore may not be welcomed campaigning in next Tuesday's elections for governor of Kentucky and Mississippi. But they are very welcome in the Philadelphia mayor's race. The former president and vice president will be there over the next three days to help Democratic Mayor John Street's reelection.
This race got national headlines when it was revealed that the FBI had listening devices in Mayor Street's office as part of an investigation of the pay-to-play culture at city hall. When this was published, polls immediately showed the mayor spurting ahead of his reform Republican foe. It sure sound like Philadelphia is just the kind of city where Clinton and Gore would go over very big.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, it's certainly the kind of place where alleged dirty tricks don't go over so well.
You know, Attorney General John Ashcroft, a longtime right-wing political hack, is responsible for what his Justice Department and FBI does. He won't tell us why the mayor's office was bugged a few weeks before an election. I think we have a right to know that.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You are saying the FBI is corrupt?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I am saying they haven't told us why they have done it.
NOVAK: You said it's dirty tricks.
BEGALA: Alleged dirty tricks.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Well, that's just a smear, then. You have no fact to back that up.
BEGALA: So what? He bugged the mayor's office, Bob. They won't tell us why. He's not the target of an investigation.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: It's in the middle of an investigation.
BEGALA: Ah, it smells.
Well, the Center For Public Integrity has released a report that proves giant corporations that gave big money to President Bush are winning the lion's share of the contracts to rebuild Iraq. What a shock.
Executive director of the center, Charles Lewis, says -- quote -- "There is a stench of political favoritism and cronyism" -- unquote. But just to make the stench even worse, the Pentagon has once again extended the no-bid, $1.6 billion and counting contract for Halliburton, which was the firm once run by Dick Cheney and from whom Vice President Dick Cheney still receives a check for deferred compensation.
The message? If Halliburton can't rip us off, then the terrorists have won.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Paul, I am sure you know that Dick Cheney's deferred compensation has nothing to do with what future earnings of the company are. If they go broke, he still gets the deferred compensation.
But I wonder if you can tell me, right now, if another company that could do the kind of work that Halliburton is doing in Iraq. Just name the company.
BEGALA: Two. Two. I have Bechtel and Schlumberger. That's two.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Well, you're wrong. They can't do it.
BEGALA: They should compete for that contract. That should be an open bid and they should compete for it. That's the capitalist system. Call me a capitalist, which I am. I think they should compete fair and square, instead of these alleged crony deals, which the Center For Public Integrity
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Do you know the Pentagon says, that they are -- there's no other company who is able to do that kind of work?
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: That's baloney.
NOVAK: Former -- polls show that former Republican National Chairman Haley Barbour is moving ahead in Mississippi against Democratic Governor Ronnie Musgrove's bid for reelection. But is Musgrove a Democrat? While Barbour describes himself as Republican and conservative, Musgrove calls himself independent and conservative, never mentioning the word Democrat.
The South is no place for Democrats or liberals. Musgrove claims to be pro-life, pro-gun and anti-tax. What's Democratic about him? He's bankrolled by the trial lawyers lobby. And he apparently attended the Carville-Begala advance school of political invective, accusing Haley Barbour of wanting to poison Mississippi's children.
Funny. After that outrageous attack on him, Barbour got his biggest lead so far in the polls.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, you tell me, Bob. Haley Barbour was a Washington lobbyist for cigarette companies. And, by the way, Musgrove didn't say he wants to. He said he served cigarette companies that poisoned our children. That's a fact.
He also appeared in a photograph for the Conservative Citizens Council, which the Anti-Defamation League says is a racist group. That's playing the race card by Haley Barbour.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Well, that's not true. The Conservative Citizens Council put his name without his permission on their Web site.
Strong numbers are out on the economy. And Congress is moving toward approval of the president's funding plan for Iraq. It's been a big week, Paul, for President Bush.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Should Democrats push the panic button?
(BELL RINGING)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: President Bush's Halloween bag got a lot of goodies this week. The U.S. economy is growing at the fastest rate since 1984. Inflation is low. The military is slowly, but surely finding out who's behind the violence in Iraq. And on Capitol Hill, the president's $87 billion military aid and construction bill for Iraq is moving toward final passage in the form that he wanted.
In the CROSSFIRE to discuss the president's big week, Democratic strategist Vic Kamber, Republican strategist Terry Holt.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Guys, thanks a lot. Happy Halloween!
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I have no idea, Terry, why Bob is crowing so much about the president's week. It was a remarkable week, not altogether good, clearly good economic news. We will get to that in a minute.
But a really remarkable press conference. And I hope the president does every day, at least every week, because he showed spectacular arrogance. Before the press conference, in fact, he said that 40 people being killed and 200 wounded was a sign of the progress that we're making in Iraq. This prompted a lot of calls for maybe medical attention or a checkup from the neck up.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: But that's not just from the left.
Frank Wolf is a conservative Republican from the conservative state of Virginia. Here's what he says about the administration: "They're a lot of people here who have tried to be a strong supporter of this administration, doing everything they possibly could. But you bump up against a degree of arrogance over and over again."
Now, how do you respond to Congressman Wolf?
TERRY HOLT, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, Congressman Wolf has a right to his own opinion.
But I think something else this week that people ought to pay attention to. For the first time, the terrorists that are placing car bombs -- excuse me, Bob -- in Iraq bombed the Red Cross. And for anybody who didn't know that these people were terrorists, this was a clear signal. And I think for people that didn't get it before that these thugs are willing to kill people who are saving people's lives in Iraq shows you exactly the kind of people that we are up against.
But this was a good week. Economic growth, only bizarre liberals didn't get it that tax cuts going into the economy wouldn't create growth in this economy. So I think you are missing a lot of the bigger points.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This question of arrogance from his own allies is really quite stunning, isn't it?
HOLT: Well, in the Republican Party, you are entitled to your opinion. I don't know how to works over in the Democratic Party.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Vic, I don't expect Paul Begala to show any kind of objectivity. But I expect more from you. I have known you -- I knew you when you were a Republican, even.
VIC KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Let's be careful.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Did you know he used to be a Republican?
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: It was a different lifetime -- a liberal Republican.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Vic, seriously, the Democratic Party is just predicated on bad news. You want the economy to fall. You want the idea of the country wanting to get out of Iraq. Aren't you in a position now where you're the Bad News Bears and any time you get good news, like 7.2 percent growth rate, you say, oh, it doesn't matter, it doesn't count?
KAMBER: Bob, today is Halloween, right? I mean, it is Halloween.
NOVAK: It sure is.
KAMBER: And the president has been wearing a mask for three years. He calls the mask compassion. And it's trick or treat. And all we've had is tricks from this man for three years, no treats. For one week, to suggest...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: For one week, to suggest that the economy was OK, yes, we have 57,000 new jobs announced in September. We lost 87,000 in August. So only a net loss of 30,000. That's good news for this president. I'm sorry.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I think you are making my point that you are predicated on bad news. You can't have good news. You want a bad economy.
(APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: Not at all. No. I want Bill Clinton's economy back, which was good news, Bob. I want the things that made...
HOLT: With the corporate scandals and all.
KAMBER: The corporate scandals weren't under Bill Clinton. They are under this president, the corporate scandals.
HOLT: I see.
BEGALA: Terry, let me come back to that press conference.
HOLT: Sure.
BEGALA: But it really was. It was wonderful. I am going to play more of it. This is probably the last day CNN will allow me to continue to play the stirring words of our president, speaking with such a forked tongue about that infamous banner. Banner-gate is now in day four or five, I think. He was asked about the banner that declared "Mission Accomplished."
HOLT: Sure.
BEGALA: Which was clearly false. Here is how our president responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: The "Mission Accomplished" sign, of course, was put up by the members of the USS Abraham Lincoln, saying that their mission was accomplished. I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Now, I guess this is a two-part question. First off, what's the morality of the commander in chief blaming his sailors for his mistakes and, it turns out, falsely doing so? That was a fib. It was fabrication. It was a falsehood. His own White House crew made that sign. And he knew that or should have known it at the time he said that. Why blame the sailors?
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: Do you want the leader of the free world to be in charge of logistics?
BEGALA: I want him not to blame his sailors, who have risked their lives for our country.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: But the fact of the matter is...
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: Thank you.
The USS Abraham Lincoln had been on the longest deployments. And its mission had been accomplished. What's false with that? I don't accept your premise.
KAMBER: Terry, why not just say we made a mistake and get on with it?
(APPLAUSE)
HOLT: I don't see the mistake.
KAMBER: There was a mistake.
HOLT: The Abraham Lincoln was coming home. They put their life in harm's way. What's wrong with saying mission accomplished?
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, let me take another part. There's a lot of people in the country who don't give a damn. Banner-gate is just a
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: It's a silly thing. But they do care about taxes.
And let's see what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Just as the economy's coming around, some over in Washington say now is the time to raise taxes. To be fair, they think any time is a good time to raise taxes.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: At least they're consistent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, Mr. Kamber, isn't it true the Democratic Party, everybody in the Democrats wants to raise taxes? It depends on who you are talking to, whether it's just on the top bracket. Some of them want to raise them on everybody. Do you think that's good politics?
KAMBER: Well, first of all, I don't know -- when you say everybody, I don't what you are talking about. NOVAK: All the presidential candidates.
KAMBER: No, no. There are a number candidates who say we should eliminate the tax cuts that were made.
NOVAK: That's a raising of taxes, when the cuts are already there.
KAMBER: They're eight years from now, the cuts are coming. So they're not raising taxes.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: ... came within the last quarter.
KAMBER: We are talking about a 10-year tax cut program. And there are there Democrats who are saying we should eliminate the future of those tax cuts.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: That's a tax increase.
KAMBER: How is it a tax increase, Bob?
NOVAK: You don't understand how, if you say we're going to pay at a higher rate next year
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: We're going to pay at the rate that the Republicans passed
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: If you're going to pay at a higher rate next year than you paid this year, that's not a tax increase?
KAMBER: But the point is, Bob, we cut the tax rate in the future. We don't -- we are having the biggest deficits that have ever happened in the history of this country.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So higher taxes?
KAMBER: Our economy is in the pits, in spite of the one month, Bob, of growth, one month of growth out of 35 or 36. The economy is in the pits and you are worried about whether a multibillionaire is going to pay a penny or two more?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: One month of growth? One quarter.
BEGALA: Terry? HOLT: Yes, sir.
BEGALA: Unemployment is still above 6 percent. How low does it have to go for George W. Bush to win reelection, or can he win with 6 percent, three million Americans out of work?
HOLT: Well, the president talked about the benefits of cutting taxes in this economy, but he also was quick to point out that we need more job growth.
BEGALA: How many jobs do we need?
HOLT: And we need a lot of jobs. People need to be put back to work. Everybody who wants to work should be able to. That's been a basic tenet, a fundamental policy, of President Bush, since before he was president.
BEGALA: We're three million in the hole.
HOLT: So I think that it would be a very important accomplishment to get some jobs back into this economy.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Vic, hold your response.
Terry, hold that thought just for a minute.
And just so that nobody can accuse me of tricking my friend Terry Holt, when we come back, in our "Rapid Fire" segment, I am going to ask him just how Halliburton got that $1.6 billion treat from the Bush administration without having to compete for it.
And then, right after the break, Judy Woodruff will have the latest on threats being made in Iraq to launch a series of terror attacks beginning as early as this weekend.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
BEGALA: Time here now on CROSSFIRE for "Rapid Fire," which is maybe not as compelling, but a little bit like a trick-or-treat bag, except we try to fill it with as many questions as possible in this brief amount of time.
Our guests, Republican strategist Terry Holt and Democratic strategist Vic Kamber.
NOVAK: Vic, since the Democrats say things are going so badly in Iraq, do you think Democratic presidential candidates should say, let's get out of Iraq right now?
KAMBER: Several have. I am not sure I agree with that totally, given the military's commitment.
NOVAK: Well, that wasn't the question. Should they?
KAMBER: Well, should they say it? I think they should say what they believe. And we've had all nine say what they believe. And most -- all of them completely have disagreed with the president's policy that got us there. We're now into different degrees of what we do to get out.
BEGALA: Terry, to avoid what one ethics expert calls the stench of political favoritism and cronyism, should Halliburton have been required to compete for that no-bid contract?
HOLT: Well, Halliburton has to first be able to do the job. And those contracts should only go to companies that can do the job responsibly, and effectively.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Wouldn't a bidding process prove who could do the job?
HOLT: The demonization of a company that does good work all over the country, for the purpose of politics, is getting little old.
I think that, if Halliburton can do the job, then they should do it. And I'll say also, no-bid, competitive, Democrats and Republicans on the Hill, over time, with government, have both agreed that sometimes competitive bidding isn't the best way to get the right job done, both Republicans and Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Vic, from the standpoint of the Democrats, what is the income level at which they should be deprived of tax cuts, under the Democratic philosophy, $75,000 for a couple, $100,000, $125,000? What is it?
KAMBER: I have no idea, Bob, what the numbers should be, in those sense. I'm not an economist.
NOVAK: It doesn't matter, huh?
KAMBER: It does matter tremendously, but I have no idea what the answer is to that question. I'm not even sure what the question was, Bob.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Terry, is it right -- good question.
Is it right to ignore and dishonor the sacrifice of our war dead by denying their families the welcoming ceremonies that have been traditional and been covered by the media when the caskets come home, as this administration has done? HOLT: Well, I'm not even aware of that story. I can't respond to that. I think the military makes those decisions. And a Republican strategist shouldn't have some kind of ill-conceived thought.
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: But I would like to say something about that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I've got to say something, because Terry is about to switch hats here from being a Republican strategist generally to a big promotion, a great gig. He's going to be the chief spokesman for the Bush-Cheney '04 reelection campaign.
Terry, best of luck to you. We hope you come back a lot.
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: Thank you. And, Paul, I wanted to
(CROSSTALK)
HOLT: This is not a Halloween costume.
On election night in 2003, some of you might have remembered that James' old friend -- or Carville -- in 2003 wore a garbage can on his head. This is a little bit more dignified for 2004.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: If your guy wins, I will wear this. If the Democrat wins, you wear the Democratic hat, Terry. Come back on CNN.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: OK, thank you, Vic Kamber.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Good job. Thank you, Vic.
Thank you, Terry. Congratulations.
NOVAK: On this Halloween, we have a question about a political poltergeist. Which first lady dressed up as a ghost to scare a group of children in the Lincoln Bedroom of the White House? It wasn't Bill Clinton. It's a first lady. Rosalynn Carter, Barbara Bush, or Hillary Clinton?
We will have the answer right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) (APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to this Halloween edition of CROSSFIRE.
Before the break, we asked you this trivia question. Which first lady dressed up like a ghost and scared a bunch of kids in the Lincoln Bedroom? Well, we asked our audience to vote on it. We'll test their knowledge. Was it Rosalynn Carter? Thirty-nine percent. Most folks thought it was Barbara Bush, though. Actually, it was Ms. Carter, Rosalynn Carter. Amy was a child and her friends were over. It's kind of a nice, fun thing to do.
NOVAK: Now, one of them might have been more appropriate as a witch, wouldn't you think?
BEGALA: No, these are three wonderful women.
NOVAK: I wouldn't say which. Did I say which one?
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: By the way, Barbara Bush's new book, people say is great.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I wasn't talking about Barbara Bush. Anyway...
BEGALA: Well, wait a minute.
NOVAK: Anne Sorensen of Salt Lake City, Utah, says: "Trick or treat. Democrats are locked in ghosts of elections past costumes, wearing masks of Dukakis and McGovern."
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Isn't the whole idea of Dukakis and McGovern scary to the Democratic Party, horrifying?
BEGALA: I have no idea what Anne Sorensen is talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: You don't?
BEGALA: We have a president who says it's progress when 40 people are killed. We need a new president. That's all I know.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Anita in Washington, D.C. says: "I was repulsed by our president patting himself on the back yesterday, when he announced the GDP increase. What a joke. I've been out of work since October 2001 with no prospect in sight. I received no tax cuts, can't by anything I want, have lost all of my retirement, can barely pay my mortgage. And I'm not alone."
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know what I would tell Anita? I would say, suck it up and stop whining.
BEGALA: From the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE. Happy Halloween.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
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