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CNN Crossfire
Is Playing the Race Card a Fair Way to Win?
Aired November 05, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE, Democratic flag waving.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we need to talk to white Southern workers about how they vote.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me tell you the last thing we need in the South. It's somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do.
ANNOUNCER: There was plenty of heat, but did last night throw any light on who's going to win the nomination?
Plus, look who's cheering now.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Well, another huge loss for the Democratic Party. Voters in Kentucky and Mississippi have handed their governors' mansions to the GOP.
Meanwhile, the circular firing squad that is the Democratic presidential race now has a flag to rally around.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Yes, my Democrats universally oppose the Confederate flag. We learned that in last night's debate. Too bad we can't say the same about the Confederate loving Republicans, who won the Mississippi governor's race by playing the race card.
But before we get to the 2003 elections, and then 2004, let's start with the best little political briefing in television, the "CROSSFIRE Political Alert."
The right wing has a new favorite weapon: censorship. Wing nuts have pressured CBS into censoring a movie about Ronald Reagan which truthfully portrays the former president as being callous about AIDS and influenced by astrology.
And the Bush administration is airbrushing out our heroic war dead, refusing to allow the press to cover the return of the flag- draped coffins from Iraq.
Well, of course, needless to say this is all Bill Clinton's fault. Bush aides say that the reason our beloved leader is censoring return ceremonies and refusing to attend military funerals is because he was so appalled by President Clinton's public empathy. Baloney.
Yesterday Mr. Bush was happy to hug victims of California's wildfires in full view of the camera. Well, the fires, of course, are not Mr. Bush's fault. The debacle in Iraq is. And I think that's a difference.
CARLSON: Let me just put myself on the record by saying, I'm against all public hugging. No matter who it's done by.
I will say, you devalue the term censorship when you apply to the CBS scenario. CBS admitted this thing was inaccurate. That's why they pulled it. Moreover, government had nothing to do with it when gay groups were against Dr. Laura getting a TV show, they pressured networks not to carry it. And they didn't. The right pressured CBS and CBS didn't.
BEGALA: The part of censorship is prior restraint. Dr. Laura had a chance to make her place, then she was voted down by the market place. The Reagan movie was never even played. Prior restraint is the...
CARLSON: What do you mean? It is playing. It's playing on cable.
When Howard Dean announced the other day that he'd like to win the votes with white men with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks, his fellow Democrats recoiled in the most sanctimonious kind of horror. Many implied that Dean is a bigot.
And yet, as Will Salton (ph) explains in a fascinating piece in "Slate" today, Dean has been saying the exact same thing for months. This February at the winter meeting of the Democratic National Committee, the DNC, Governor Dean said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Well, virtually every single Democrat in the room stood and applauded Dean's line about the Confederate flag, including DNC vice chair Lottie Shackleford, who is black. Are the clapping DNV attendees bigots, too? Well, by the excruciatingly severe standards of political correctness imposed by the Democratic Party, yes, they are.
Somebody tell the P.C. police to shut up. I don't like it. Even when it's applied to Democrats, it bugs me.
BEGALA: I say this as a Southern Democrat. The first 15 minutes of last night's debate were astonishingly stupid. You make a good point.
Someone should have stood up and said, you know, under the American flag in Iraq, because of George Bush's failed policies, our young men and women are being killed. We have to present a plan to solve that problem. Instead of just griping about a flag decal; it was idiotic.
CARLSON: But it's perfect for the Democratic Party, obsessed with P.C.
BEGALA: Republican Congressman Jim Leach of Iowa was one of the first Republicans to bash Bill and Hillary Clinton over the phony non- issue of Whitewater. A former aide to Donald Rumsfeld, Congressman Leach once shared an office with Dick Cheney, who was in Iowa recently, raising money for Congressman Leach.
But this very loyal Republican now says the Bush administration strategy on Iraq is based on, quote, "one of the most misguided assumptions in the history of the United States' strategic thinking," unquote.
Congressman Leach told reporters the Bush strategy in Baghdad, quote, "clearly isn't working. And with each passing moment, it appears we're causing more problems than we're solving," unquote.
Well, quick, someone censor Jim Leach. Boycott him, shout him down, shut him up, attack his patriotism? Leak something harmful about his wife. Doesn't he know if we start engaging in free speech in America, the terrorists win? Censor him, Jack. Censor him.
CARLSON: You know, I've heard you say that a lot. I've had a lot of questions about the Iraq war before it, during it, and now. No one has ever questioned my patriotism. Good for Jim Leach. If he thinks the U.S. government's screwing up, he ought to say so.
BEGALA: And he did.
CARLSON: There's nothing wrong with that. And no one's ever going to attack his patriotism. Nobody even attacks the patriotism of Jim McDermott, whose patriotism ought to be attacked for denouncing the U.S. government from Baghdad.
BEGALA: This is what makes you a different conservative than many of your -- our friends in the White House and their allies in Congress do attack people's patriotism every day for saying just what you just said.
CARLSON: I never heard it. I must live in a different world. If I heard it... BEGALA: OK.
CARLSON: Well, of all the implausible lines delivered at the Democratic debate last night, and there were many, none was the less believable than Congressman Dennis Kucinich's response to the question, "Have you ever smoked marijuana. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, DEBATE HOST: Congressman Kucinich.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, but I think it ought to be decriminalized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Huh. So here you have the only self-declared vegan in the race, claiming that, despite his haircut and his political positions, he has never spent a single afternoon on the couch watching "Sesame Street" with a bong in hand.
Well, do you believe him? And even if you do believe him, what will his supporters think? Will they still love him now that they know?
Well, one of Kucinich's strongest backers, future Secretary of Agriculture Willie Nelson once cruised America in a converted station wagon called the Hemp Mobile. It was a rolling advertisement for dope. Will Willie switch his vote to Dean in the aftermath of this revelation? We'll keep you posted.
BEGALA: You forgot to mention the Woody Harrelson side of it. Right? Isn't Woody Harrelson, apparently, a big hemp supporter?
CARLSON: Not anymore.
BEGALA: Who knew?
CARLSON: Kucinich doesn't smoke pot? I mean, I had no idea. This actually was news, I have to say.
BEGALA: I actually am a liberal who's very much anti-drug. But I found that little exchange pretty interesting.
CARLSON: I'm not taking a position either way. I was just amazed. Wow.
OK. After yesterday's elections, the disintegration of the Democratic Party is all but complete. Do Democrats have a single idea about what to do next other than to hate George W. Bush as hard as they can? The answers may lie in last night's debate. We'll debate that.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Well, while Democratic candidates were drowning under a sea of unfriendly ballots last night, eight of the party's nine presidential candidates were savaging each other in Boston, trying to secure a chance to be humiliated next year by the current president.
Here to help us sort through the winners and the many losers are Democratic pollster Anna Greenberg and "Washington Times" editorial page editor Tony Blankley.
BEGALA: Thank you both for coming. Good to see you again.
Tony, it was certainly a good night for Republicans in Mississippi, in that they won. And winning is good. But my question is, is winning everything? Because here's how Haley Barbour won. Let me show you a picture from a web site of a group called the Council of Conservative Citizens.
The anti-defamation league says they're a racist group. They seem to be the successor group to the old, discredited White Citizens Council in the South.
There's Haley Barbour. He's the fourth overweight white guy from the left. He's now the governor-elect of Mississippi. That picture ran on the web site of this alleged racist group, along with this picture. Let me show you this one. This is a guy, not nearly -- well, where is he -- his name's Ernst Zundel. He is a Holocaust denier. He wrote the book, lovely charming title of which is "The Hitler We Love."
Mr. Barbour refused to ask the group to take his picture down. It got enormous play, and he surged among white voters in Mississippi. Is that a fair way to win an election, by appealing to racist voters?
TONY BLANKLEY, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, look, first of all, playing the race card is as, unfortunately, as American as apple pie. Last night in Boston all the Democrats who are attacking Dean with the Confederate flag were playing the race card for, in part, the black vote in the South Carolina Democratic primary, which is going to be about 40 percent.
Abraham Lincoln, sainted though he is, started playing the race card during the Lincoln-Douglas debate when he started moving downstate in Illinois, closer to the Mason Dixon Line.
Unfortunately, race is used by both parties on a regular basis to maximize vote, because people in America still are conscious and vote sometimes based on their races. Unfortunate. I hope the day comes when it doesn't happen. But suggests that one candidate does it, or one party does it is not recognizing the nature of American politics today.
CARLSON: OK. Anna, boy, I agree with that. It's awfully depressing. Anna, there was sort of a line that summed up last night on the "Hot Line," the tip sheet you read here in Washington. You probably read it. This is from an unnamed Democratic strategist.
Quote, "If Democrats lose Louisiana in a couple weeks, Terry McAuliffe ought to step down. With that, he would have lost three Democratic gubernatorial seats, four counting California, just this year. With that record, he should not be in the driver's seat of crafting any play to win back to the White House."
Do you think that's true? I mean, you have a problem if you lose in Louisiana, don't you? The Democratic Party.
ANNA GREENBERG, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I disagree with your characterization of the entire race. First of all, we won the state senate in New Jersey and picked up six new members. And so we had a victory in New Jersey.
Second of all, you have two states that are trending nationally Republican with Democratic governors with big budget problems. Not surprised at all that Republicans won that seats.
I disagree entirely with the characterization of, with those won, we think we have a good shot in Louisiana.
CARLSON: So 2002 midterms, California and last night add up to a good trend for Democrats, is what you're saying?
GREEBERG: I'm not suggesting it's a good trend. But California was not an ideological election. That was about people being angry about the economy, being angry about that state's budget. It was not ideological. If you looked at how they voted in that election, it was not ideological. I don't see it as any kind of trend.
BEGALA: And Tony, here at home, or rather in the national election last night, there was a debate you mentioned on CNN. And I thought John Kerry did a good job of taking the fight over Iraq to the president. I agreed with you about the...
BLANKLEY: The president wasn't there.
BEGALA: ... about the Confederate flag thing, which was a stupid waste of time.
But it's important, I think, that the Democrats say what they stand for on Iraq. And here's John Kerry from that debate, I think, taking it to Bush by showing greater strength and greater smarts. Here's John Kerry from the debate.
(BEGAN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president has made our military weaker by overextending them. And he has in fact made America less secure by conducting an arrogant, blustering, unilateral foreign policy that has put America in greater danger, not less. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: That's the kind of message that's going to win him a lot of votes in the South, in the border states, and also from the parents, brothers and sisters of those 130,000 troops we've got half a world away because of George Bush's foreign policy. Isn't it?
BLANKLEY: Talking about arrogant and blustering, I thought he was a little arrogant and blustering last night.
Look, and you think he's going to do well. He's an anti-war candidate. He's fudged. He's kind of halfway in between. He voted, as you know, for the war resolution, and then said he really wasn't intending to send us off to war. He's stuck between two worlds.
I don't think he's going to do well in the South. I doubt you think he's going to do well in the South.
As far as taking the battle to the president on Iraq, I think it would be more effective for any of the Democrats to take the battle to the president by offering an alternative policy to how we win the war, both on terrorism and in Iraq. Since other than Kucinich, I don't think any of them are saying we should absolutely withdraw and turn tail and run.
The problem with the whole Democratic primary and their attack on the president is they're offering no plausible alternative strategy.
Look, let me finish. Let me finish. The president has made plenty of tactical and maybe strategic, I'll concede tactical mistakes, as leaders do in war. The challenge for the opposition is to give an alternative vision that's plausible, that's going to result in increased American security.
I don't think -- haven't a single Democratic other than Lieberman who has been criticizing I think with some validity on the right, the Bush's war strategy.
CARLSON: Anne, I'm not going to endorse Governor Dean's affection for stars and bars. But other than that, I would still say he's a pretty clever candidate.
Case in point. He said for months that it would be wrong not to accept public financing in a presidential campaign. Now he's come out and said he's going to put that question to the people. He's conducting an online poll to see if he should, you know, ignore the caps.
G.W. professor Mike Cornfield (ph) pointed out today that is itself a fund-raising tool, which I thought was a clever point. Can Dean get away with this rank hypocrisy and should he?
GREENBERG: I don't really care what Governor Dean does about his fund-raising. And I think it should be left up to the people who support him. You know, I would say that John Kerry's...
CARLSON: There's ideas involved here.
GREENBERG: ... is very similar to where the American people are on the war, which is they supported doing it, but they have a lot of problems with the prosecution and a lot of problems...
CARLSON: Wait a second, Anna. I can't let you slip away like that. Actually, how campaigns are financed, that's a big deal in the Democratic Party. It's an ideological question. Campaign finance reform. Remember that? We used to be for it.
Dean says it's a moral issue, public financing. And now he's saying, well, whatever works. Can you get away with that?
GREENBERG: I disagree with the notion that it's a big deal in the Democratic Party. If you look at your average Democratic voter, they might have a view one way or the other, but it's not something people are losing a lot of sleep over.
BLANKLEY: That was the argument Republicans made a couple years ago, that the public didn't really care about the issues. I'm glad to hear you agreeing.
BEGALA: It's an argument, correctly, that the public doesn't agree -- doesn't care, the question was whether we should have a forum or not.
BLANKLEY: Let me talk about Dean. Dean is by so far the smartest politician in this campaign right now. He is surrounding his opposition, his Democratic Party opposition, for both the left and the right simultaneously.
He's going for the Southern vote. He's talking about reaching out to poor whites. At the same time that he's flanking his opposition on the left with his anti-war strategy and his progressive agenda. And the rest of those guys are -- and lady -- or kind of wandering around in the middle, being shot from both sides by the same guy simultaneously.
I think he's going to win, because he's too smart for them.
BEGALA: I get nervous when Tony Blankley from the "Washington Times" starts praising a Democrat. It makes me nervous.
But we're going to come back with Tony and with Anna Greenberg in a minute. And when we do, we're going to show you what I think is the funniest and frankest moment from last night's debate. Here's a hint: it involves reverend Al Sharpton and wife swapping. Whatever.
And then after the break, there's nothing funny at all about this man's confession in a Washington state courtroom today. Wolf Blitzer has the story. And he'll bring it to us in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour, dramatic, chilling testimony from the man who just pleaded guilty to murdering 48 women. We'll bring you reaction from the courtroom. And I'll speak live with the brother of one of the victims.
A new development today on the theory that a 20th hijacker may have been involved in the 9/11 plot.
And reporting history from the front lines. I'll speak live with the producer of a powerful new documentary about war correspondents.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to Paul Begala and CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf, look forward to your broadcast.
And here for "Rapid Fire" on CROSSFIRE, where we cut our guests off with a bell that, if possible, is even more annoying than the one they used in last night's debate.
Well, presidential candidate Al Sharpton is guest hosting "Saturday Night Live" next month, and during last night's candidate forum, looked for a minute like he was kind of polishing his act. Especially when all the candidates were asked which other candidate they'd like to party with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Probably the best person I've met on the campaign to party with is Mrs. Kerry. I'm sorry.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was going to choose Carol Moseley Braun, but now I'm going to have to choose you, so I can keep an eye on my wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: That's my party. We are talking with "Washington Times" editorial page editor Tony Blankley, who runs the most lively editorial page in Washington. I don't often agree with it, but it's a lot better than the "Post." And Democratic pollster Anna Greenberg.
CARLSON: Anna, you've got your finger on the pulse of the Democratic Party. I don't. Tell me, do suggestions of wife swapping help in a Democratic Party or hurt?
GREEBERG: You know what? It helps with young voters. And they were at the forum.
CARLSON: Nice.
BEGALA: Tony, your former boss, Ronald Reagan, subject of a CBS docudrama, now been censored by CBS, caving to right-wing pressure. What factual inaccuracy is in it that caused CBS to cave? BLANKLEY: I think -- Well, you've seen the same stuff I have. Apparently they claimed he claimed he was the antichrist, which seems unlikely. They claimed that he hated and was vicious to homosexuals, which is not only not true but was proven not to be true by Rock Hudson's former lover, who wrote a letter to the president of CBS, saying...
BEGALA: The quote -- the quote itself...
BLANKLEY: Paul, you asked a question. Let me give you the answer. That Reagan wrote a letter -- that Reagan wrote a letter to him just before Rock Hudson's death, which was extraordinarily supportive of him.
So obviously, they were packed full with lies, trying to make him look like the sort of person Democrats thought he was. But he wasn't.
CARLSON: Now, Anna, probably the saddest part of last night's debate was Clark and Kucinich coming in in those mock turtlenecks, trying to look hip. Young people, are they that stupid? Do you think they're going to fall for that?
GREEBERG: No, they're a lot smarter than that.
CARLSON: Are they? Good. You're honest. I like you.
BEGALA: Tony, how would you have dressed them? You're the best- dressed man in Washington.
BLANKLEY: I'd dress them just like this. You know, $2,000 suit, you know, $300 tie, that kind of thing.
BEGALA: Wow. Man!
CARLSON: Man with the people.
BLANKLEY: They've got to go down and reach...
BEGALA: That's why subscriptions cost so much to the "Washington Times."
BLANKLEY: Twenty-five cents.
CARLSON: Anna, why is it that Al Sharpton is the only candidate out of nine that "Saturday Night Live" would even consider letting host its show?
GREEBERG: He's very funny. He's very smart. He's very honest. I think hell's be great.
CARLSON: Al Sharpton for president. You are fantastic. Anna Greenberg, Tony Blankley, thank you both very much.
BLANKLEY: Thank you.
CARLSON: That was awesome. Al Sharpton scheduled to host "Saturday Night Live," as we said, live in December. We want to know which of the following has not hosted that program. Is it Al Gore, John McCain or Janet Reno?
And ahead in "Fire Back," who was cool and who was not in last night's Rock the Vote debate? We'll weigh in. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back.
Time now to give you the answer to our audience trivia question. Before the break we asked you which one of these prominent politicians has never hosted "Saturday Night Live." And here's the audience vote on that.
Four percent said Al Gore never has. We all remember Vice President Gore in the hot tub. Thirty-five percent said John McCain, who was great on "Saturday Night Live." When he hosted, he played John Ashcroft hilariously. And you're right, 61 percent said Janet Reno. The star of "Janet Reno's Dance Party" never actually hosted the show, just had that star turn in that great sketch.
CARLSON: Yes. She's better when she's being impersonated by someone else.
BEGALA: She's wonderful. I love Janet Reno.
CARLSON: Mike Paulus of Bow, Washington, writes, "As it teenager, I watched the Rock the Vote Democratic debate last night and had to laugh. It was filled with 50-year-old men trying to appear cool to young voters."
Yes, Mike, it was the parade of yuppie dorks, wasn't it? I mean, that was embarrassing.
BEGALA: Any more than George W. Bush trying to pretend that he's a cowboy roaming around out there in Crawford, Texas.
CARLSON: I don't know, running around in a mock turtleneck? It's hard to imagine Bush in a mock turtleneck.
BEGALA: No, he just wears goofy denim. He just looks like something out of "Urban Cowboy."
Betty Caldwell in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, says -- Or "Midnight Cowboy" maybe. That's a different movie. "Edwards is right. We don't want any Yankee thinking he understands us, even when he's right about folks of all colors needing to work together to get rid of this appointed president."
CARLSON: We don't want any Yankee thinking he understand us? What country do you live in? I mean, it's still part of America.
BEGALA: It's in the South, dad gum it. CARLSON: Ed Harper of Ten Mile, Minnesota -- one mile past Nine Mile -- writes, "I would like to suggest that the hosts be placed in isolation booths with the director having the ability to mute their microphones. If this is done we could then hear the response of the guests."
Yes, but then you couldn't hear us, Ed.
BEGALA: Good point, Ed. Thank you.
OK. Our final e-mail is from Bob Stringer of Dallas, Texas. "I'm shocked at the uproar over the 'Reagans' mini-series, and even more shocked at the CBS decision to pull the show... and people wonder why Senator Clinton referred to a vast right wing conspiracy."
It was actually half-vast, not fully vast.
CARLSON: I must say, aren't you -- vast right wing conspiracy, that's so embarrassing to say something...
BEGALA: It's censorship by an organized right-wing group of thugs that doesn't want free speech.
From the left I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: OK. From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. Have a great night.
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Aired November 5, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE, Democratic flag waving.
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think we need to talk to white Southern workers about how they vote.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me tell you the last thing we need in the South. It's somebody like you coming down and telling us what we need to do.
ANNOUNCER: There was plenty of heat, but did last night throw any light on who's going to win the nomination?
Plus, look who's cheering now.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Well, another huge loss for the Democratic Party. Voters in Kentucky and Mississippi have handed their governors' mansions to the GOP.
Meanwhile, the circular firing squad that is the Democratic presidential race now has a flag to rally around.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Yes, my Democrats universally oppose the Confederate flag. We learned that in last night's debate. Too bad we can't say the same about the Confederate loving Republicans, who won the Mississippi governor's race by playing the race card.
But before we get to the 2003 elections, and then 2004, let's start with the best little political briefing in television, the "CROSSFIRE Political Alert."
The right wing has a new favorite weapon: censorship. Wing nuts have pressured CBS into censoring a movie about Ronald Reagan which truthfully portrays the former president as being callous about AIDS and influenced by astrology.
And the Bush administration is airbrushing out our heroic war dead, refusing to allow the press to cover the return of the flag- draped coffins from Iraq.
Well, of course, needless to say this is all Bill Clinton's fault. Bush aides say that the reason our beloved leader is censoring return ceremonies and refusing to attend military funerals is because he was so appalled by President Clinton's public empathy. Baloney.
Yesterday Mr. Bush was happy to hug victims of California's wildfires in full view of the camera. Well, the fires, of course, are not Mr. Bush's fault. The debacle in Iraq is. And I think that's a difference.
CARLSON: Let me just put myself on the record by saying, I'm against all public hugging. No matter who it's done by.
I will say, you devalue the term censorship when you apply to the CBS scenario. CBS admitted this thing was inaccurate. That's why they pulled it. Moreover, government had nothing to do with it when gay groups were against Dr. Laura getting a TV show, they pressured networks not to carry it. And they didn't. The right pressured CBS and CBS didn't.
BEGALA: The part of censorship is prior restraint. Dr. Laura had a chance to make her place, then she was voted down by the market place. The Reagan movie was never even played. Prior restraint is the...
CARLSON: What do you mean? It is playing. It's playing on cable.
When Howard Dean announced the other day that he'd like to win the votes with white men with Confederate flags on their pickup trucks, his fellow Democrats recoiled in the most sanctimonious kind of horror. Many implied that Dean is a bigot.
And yet, as Will Salton (ph) explains in a fascinating piece in "Slate" today, Dean has been saying the exact same thing for months. This February at the winter meeting of the Democratic National Committee, the DNC, Governor Dean said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN: White folks in the South who drive pickup trucks with Confederate flag decals on the back ought to be voting with us, and not them, because their kids don't have health insurance either, and their kids need better schools, too.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Well, virtually every single Democrat in the room stood and applauded Dean's line about the Confederate flag, including DNC vice chair Lottie Shackleford, who is black. Are the clapping DNV attendees bigots, too? Well, by the excruciatingly severe standards of political correctness imposed by the Democratic Party, yes, they are.
Somebody tell the P.C. police to shut up. I don't like it. Even when it's applied to Democrats, it bugs me.
BEGALA: I say this as a Southern Democrat. The first 15 minutes of last night's debate were astonishingly stupid. You make a good point.
Someone should have stood up and said, you know, under the American flag in Iraq, because of George Bush's failed policies, our young men and women are being killed. We have to present a plan to solve that problem. Instead of just griping about a flag decal; it was idiotic.
CARLSON: But it's perfect for the Democratic Party, obsessed with P.C.
BEGALA: Republican Congressman Jim Leach of Iowa was one of the first Republicans to bash Bill and Hillary Clinton over the phony non- issue of Whitewater. A former aide to Donald Rumsfeld, Congressman Leach once shared an office with Dick Cheney, who was in Iowa recently, raising money for Congressman Leach.
But this very loyal Republican now says the Bush administration strategy on Iraq is based on, quote, "one of the most misguided assumptions in the history of the United States' strategic thinking," unquote.
Congressman Leach told reporters the Bush strategy in Baghdad, quote, "clearly isn't working. And with each passing moment, it appears we're causing more problems than we're solving," unquote.
Well, quick, someone censor Jim Leach. Boycott him, shout him down, shut him up, attack his patriotism? Leak something harmful about his wife. Doesn't he know if we start engaging in free speech in America, the terrorists win? Censor him, Jack. Censor him.
CARLSON: You know, I've heard you say that a lot. I've had a lot of questions about the Iraq war before it, during it, and now. No one has ever questioned my patriotism. Good for Jim Leach. If he thinks the U.S. government's screwing up, he ought to say so.
BEGALA: And he did.
CARLSON: There's nothing wrong with that. And no one's ever going to attack his patriotism. Nobody even attacks the patriotism of Jim McDermott, whose patriotism ought to be attacked for denouncing the U.S. government from Baghdad.
BEGALA: This is what makes you a different conservative than many of your -- our friends in the White House and their allies in Congress do attack people's patriotism every day for saying just what you just said.
CARLSON: I never heard it. I must live in a different world. If I heard it... BEGALA: OK.
CARLSON: Well, of all the implausible lines delivered at the Democratic debate last night, and there were many, none was the less believable than Congressman Dennis Kucinich's response to the question, "Have you ever smoked marijuana. Here's what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, DEBATE HOST: Congressman Kucinich.
REP. DENNIS KUCINICH (D-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: No, but I think it ought to be decriminalized.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: Huh. So here you have the only self-declared vegan in the race, claiming that, despite his haircut and his political positions, he has never spent a single afternoon on the couch watching "Sesame Street" with a bong in hand.
Well, do you believe him? And even if you do believe him, what will his supporters think? Will they still love him now that they know?
Well, one of Kucinich's strongest backers, future Secretary of Agriculture Willie Nelson once cruised America in a converted station wagon called the Hemp Mobile. It was a rolling advertisement for dope. Will Willie switch his vote to Dean in the aftermath of this revelation? We'll keep you posted.
BEGALA: You forgot to mention the Woody Harrelson side of it. Right? Isn't Woody Harrelson, apparently, a big hemp supporter?
CARLSON: Not anymore.
BEGALA: Who knew?
CARLSON: Kucinich doesn't smoke pot? I mean, I had no idea. This actually was news, I have to say.
BEGALA: I actually am a liberal who's very much anti-drug. But I found that little exchange pretty interesting.
CARLSON: I'm not taking a position either way. I was just amazed. Wow.
OK. After yesterday's elections, the disintegration of the Democratic Party is all but complete. Do Democrats have a single idea about what to do next other than to hate George W. Bush as hard as they can? The answers may lie in last night's debate. We'll debate that.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Well, while Democratic candidates were drowning under a sea of unfriendly ballots last night, eight of the party's nine presidential candidates were savaging each other in Boston, trying to secure a chance to be humiliated next year by the current president.
Here to help us sort through the winners and the many losers are Democratic pollster Anna Greenberg and "Washington Times" editorial page editor Tony Blankley.
BEGALA: Thank you both for coming. Good to see you again.
Tony, it was certainly a good night for Republicans in Mississippi, in that they won. And winning is good. But my question is, is winning everything? Because here's how Haley Barbour won. Let me show you a picture from a web site of a group called the Council of Conservative Citizens.
The anti-defamation league says they're a racist group. They seem to be the successor group to the old, discredited White Citizens Council in the South.
There's Haley Barbour. He's the fourth overweight white guy from the left. He's now the governor-elect of Mississippi. That picture ran on the web site of this alleged racist group, along with this picture. Let me show you this one. This is a guy, not nearly -- well, where is he -- his name's Ernst Zundel. He is a Holocaust denier. He wrote the book, lovely charming title of which is "The Hitler We Love."
Mr. Barbour refused to ask the group to take his picture down. It got enormous play, and he surged among white voters in Mississippi. Is that a fair way to win an election, by appealing to racist voters?
TONY BLANKLEY, "WASHINGTON TIMES": Well, look, first of all, playing the race card is as, unfortunately, as American as apple pie. Last night in Boston all the Democrats who are attacking Dean with the Confederate flag were playing the race card for, in part, the black vote in the South Carolina Democratic primary, which is going to be about 40 percent.
Abraham Lincoln, sainted though he is, started playing the race card during the Lincoln-Douglas debate when he started moving downstate in Illinois, closer to the Mason Dixon Line.
Unfortunately, race is used by both parties on a regular basis to maximize vote, because people in America still are conscious and vote sometimes based on their races. Unfortunate. I hope the day comes when it doesn't happen. But suggests that one candidate does it, or one party does it is not recognizing the nature of American politics today.
CARLSON: OK. Anna, boy, I agree with that. It's awfully depressing. Anna, there was sort of a line that summed up last night on the "Hot Line," the tip sheet you read here in Washington. You probably read it. This is from an unnamed Democratic strategist.
Quote, "If Democrats lose Louisiana in a couple weeks, Terry McAuliffe ought to step down. With that, he would have lost three Democratic gubernatorial seats, four counting California, just this year. With that record, he should not be in the driver's seat of crafting any play to win back to the White House."
Do you think that's true? I mean, you have a problem if you lose in Louisiana, don't you? The Democratic Party.
ANNA GREENBERG, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: I disagree with your characterization of the entire race. First of all, we won the state senate in New Jersey and picked up six new members. And so we had a victory in New Jersey.
Second of all, you have two states that are trending nationally Republican with Democratic governors with big budget problems. Not surprised at all that Republicans won that seats.
I disagree entirely with the characterization of, with those won, we think we have a good shot in Louisiana.
CARLSON: So 2002 midterms, California and last night add up to a good trend for Democrats, is what you're saying?
GREEBERG: I'm not suggesting it's a good trend. But California was not an ideological election. That was about people being angry about the economy, being angry about that state's budget. It was not ideological. If you looked at how they voted in that election, it was not ideological. I don't see it as any kind of trend.
BEGALA: And Tony, here at home, or rather in the national election last night, there was a debate you mentioned on CNN. And I thought John Kerry did a good job of taking the fight over Iraq to the president. I agreed with you about the...
BLANKLEY: The president wasn't there.
BEGALA: ... about the Confederate flag thing, which was a stupid waste of time.
But it's important, I think, that the Democrats say what they stand for on Iraq. And here's John Kerry from that debate, I think, taking it to Bush by showing greater strength and greater smarts. Here's John Kerry from the debate.
(BEGAN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This president has made our military weaker by overextending them. And he has in fact made America less secure by conducting an arrogant, blustering, unilateral foreign policy that has put America in greater danger, not less. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: That's the kind of message that's going to win him a lot of votes in the South, in the border states, and also from the parents, brothers and sisters of those 130,000 troops we've got half a world away because of George Bush's foreign policy. Isn't it?
BLANKLEY: Talking about arrogant and blustering, I thought he was a little arrogant and blustering last night.
Look, and you think he's going to do well. He's an anti-war candidate. He's fudged. He's kind of halfway in between. He voted, as you know, for the war resolution, and then said he really wasn't intending to send us off to war. He's stuck between two worlds.
I don't think he's going to do well in the South. I doubt you think he's going to do well in the South.
As far as taking the battle to the president on Iraq, I think it would be more effective for any of the Democrats to take the battle to the president by offering an alternative policy to how we win the war, both on terrorism and in Iraq. Since other than Kucinich, I don't think any of them are saying we should absolutely withdraw and turn tail and run.
The problem with the whole Democratic primary and their attack on the president is they're offering no plausible alternative strategy.
Look, let me finish. Let me finish. The president has made plenty of tactical and maybe strategic, I'll concede tactical mistakes, as leaders do in war. The challenge for the opposition is to give an alternative vision that's plausible, that's going to result in increased American security.
I don't think -- haven't a single Democratic other than Lieberman who has been criticizing I think with some validity on the right, the Bush's war strategy.
CARLSON: Anne, I'm not going to endorse Governor Dean's affection for stars and bars. But other than that, I would still say he's a pretty clever candidate.
Case in point. He said for months that it would be wrong not to accept public financing in a presidential campaign. Now he's come out and said he's going to put that question to the people. He's conducting an online poll to see if he should, you know, ignore the caps.
G.W. professor Mike Cornfield (ph) pointed out today that is itself a fund-raising tool, which I thought was a clever point. Can Dean get away with this rank hypocrisy and should he?
GREENBERG: I don't really care what Governor Dean does about his fund-raising. And I think it should be left up to the people who support him. You know, I would say that John Kerry's...
CARLSON: There's ideas involved here.
GREENBERG: ... is very similar to where the American people are on the war, which is they supported doing it, but they have a lot of problems with the prosecution and a lot of problems...
CARLSON: Wait a second, Anna. I can't let you slip away like that. Actually, how campaigns are financed, that's a big deal in the Democratic Party. It's an ideological question. Campaign finance reform. Remember that? We used to be for it.
Dean says it's a moral issue, public financing. And now he's saying, well, whatever works. Can you get away with that?
GREENBERG: I disagree with the notion that it's a big deal in the Democratic Party. If you look at your average Democratic voter, they might have a view one way or the other, but it's not something people are losing a lot of sleep over.
BLANKLEY: That was the argument Republicans made a couple years ago, that the public didn't really care about the issues. I'm glad to hear you agreeing.
BEGALA: It's an argument, correctly, that the public doesn't agree -- doesn't care, the question was whether we should have a forum or not.
BLANKLEY: Let me talk about Dean. Dean is by so far the smartest politician in this campaign right now. He is surrounding his opposition, his Democratic Party opposition, for both the left and the right simultaneously.
He's going for the Southern vote. He's talking about reaching out to poor whites. At the same time that he's flanking his opposition on the left with his anti-war strategy and his progressive agenda. And the rest of those guys are -- and lady -- or kind of wandering around in the middle, being shot from both sides by the same guy simultaneously.
I think he's going to win, because he's too smart for them.
BEGALA: I get nervous when Tony Blankley from the "Washington Times" starts praising a Democrat. It makes me nervous.
But we're going to come back with Tony and with Anna Greenberg in a minute. And when we do, we're going to show you what I think is the funniest and frankest moment from last night's debate. Here's a hint: it involves reverend Al Sharpton and wife swapping. Whatever.
And then after the break, there's nothing funny at all about this man's confession in a Washington state courtroom today. Wolf Blitzer has the story. And he'll bring it to us in a moment. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour, dramatic, chilling testimony from the man who just pleaded guilty to murdering 48 women. We'll bring you reaction from the courtroom. And I'll speak live with the brother of one of the victims.
A new development today on the theory that a 20th hijacker may have been involved in the 9/11 plot.
And reporting history from the front lines. I'll speak live with the producer of a powerful new documentary about war correspondents.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to Paul Begala and CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf, look forward to your broadcast.
And here for "Rapid Fire" on CROSSFIRE, where we cut our guests off with a bell that, if possible, is even more annoying than the one they used in last night's debate.
Well, presidential candidate Al Sharpton is guest hosting "Saturday Night Live" next month, and during last night's candidate forum, looked for a minute like he was kind of polishing his act. Especially when all the candidates were asked which other candidate they'd like to party with.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. AL SHARPTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Probably the best person I've met on the campaign to party with is Mrs. Kerry. I'm sorry.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I was going to choose Carol Moseley Braun, but now I'm going to have to choose you, so I can keep an eye on my wife.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: That's my party. We are talking with "Washington Times" editorial page editor Tony Blankley, who runs the most lively editorial page in Washington. I don't often agree with it, but it's a lot better than the "Post." And Democratic pollster Anna Greenberg.
CARLSON: Anna, you've got your finger on the pulse of the Democratic Party. I don't. Tell me, do suggestions of wife swapping help in a Democratic Party or hurt?
GREEBERG: You know what? It helps with young voters. And they were at the forum.
CARLSON: Nice.
BEGALA: Tony, your former boss, Ronald Reagan, subject of a CBS docudrama, now been censored by CBS, caving to right-wing pressure. What factual inaccuracy is in it that caused CBS to cave? BLANKLEY: I think -- Well, you've seen the same stuff I have. Apparently they claimed he claimed he was the antichrist, which seems unlikely. They claimed that he hated and was vicious to homosexuals, which is not only not true but was proven not to be true by Rock Hudson's former lover, who wrote a letter to the president of CBS, saying...
BEGALA: The quote -- the quote itself...
BLANKLEY: Paul, you asked a question. Let me give you the answer. That Reagan wrote a letter -- that Reagan wrote a letter to him just before Rock Hudson's death, which was extraordinarily supportive of him.
So obviously, they were packed full with lies, trying to make him look like the sort of person Democrats thought he was. But he wasn't.
CARLSON: Now, Anna, probably the saddest part of last night's debate was Clark and Kucinich coming in in those mock turtlenecks, trying to look hip. Young people, are they that stupid? Do you think they're going to fall for that?
GREEBERG: No, they're a lot smarter than that.
CARLSON: Are they? Good. You're honest. I like you.
BEGALA: Tony, how would you have dressed them? You're the best- dressed man in Washington.
BLANKLEY: I'd dress them just like this. You know, $2,000 suit, you know, $300 tie, that kind of thing.
BEGALA: Wow. Man!
CARLSON: Man with the people.
BLANKLEY: They've got to go down and reach...
BEGALA: That's why subscriptions cost so much to the "Washington Times."
BLANKLEY: Twenty-five cents.
CARLSON: Anna, why is it that Al Sharpton is the only candidate out of nine that "Saturday Night Live" would even consider letting host its show?
GREEBERG: He's very funny. He's very smart. He's very honest. I think hell's be great.
CARLSON: Al Sharpton for president. You are fantastic. Anna Greenberg, Tony Blankley, thank you both very much.
BLANKLEY: Thank you.
CARLSON: That was awesome. Al Sharpton scheduled to host "Saturday Night Live," as we said, live in December. We want to know which of the following has not hosted that program. Is it Al Gore, John McCain or Janet Reno?
And ahead in "Fire Back," who was cool and who was not in last night's Rock the Vote debate? We'll weigh in. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back.
Time now to give you the answer to our audience trivia question. Before the break we asked you which one of these prominent politicians has never hosted "Saturday Night Live." And here's the audience vote on that.
Four percent said Al Gore never has. We all remember Vice President Gore in the hot tub. Thirty-five percent said John McCain, who was great on "Saturday Night Live." When he hosted, he played John Ashcroft hilariously. And you're right, 61 percent said Janet Reno. The star of "Janet Reno's Dance Party" never actually hosted the show, just had that star turn in that great sketch.
CARLSON: Yes. She's better when she's being impersonated by someone else.
BEGALA: She's wonderful. I love Janet Reno.
CARLSON: Mike Paulus of Bow, Washington, writes, "As it teenager, I watched the Rock the Vote Democratic debate last night and had to laugh. It was filled with 50-year-old men trying to appear cool to young voters."
Yes, Mike, it was the parade of yuppie dorks, wasn't it? I mean, that was embarrassing.
BEGALA: Any more than George W. Bush trying to pretend that he's a cowboy roaming around out there in Crawford, Texas.
CARLSON: I don't know, running around in a mock turtleneck? It's hard to imagine Bush in a mock turtleneck.
BEGALA: No, he just wears goofy denim. He just looks like something out of "Urban Cowboy."
Betty Caldwell in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, says -- Or "Midnight Cowboy" maybe. That's a different movie. "Edwards is right. We don't want any Yankee thinking he understands us, even when he's right about folks of all colors needing to work together to get rid of this appointed president."
CARLSON: We don't want any Yankee thinking he understand us? What country do you live in? I mean, it's still part of America.
BEGALA: It's in the South, dad gum it. CARLSON: Ed Harper of Ten Mile, Minnesota -- one mile past Nine Mile -- writes, "I would like to suggest that the hosts be placed in isolation booths with the director having the ability to mute their microphones. If this is done we could then hear the response of the guests."
Yes, but then you couldn't hear us, Ed.
BEGALA: Good point, Ed. Thank you.
OK. Our final e-mail is from Bob Stringer of Dallas, Texas. "I'm shocked at the uproar over the 'Reagans' mini-series, and even more shocked at the CBS decision to pull the show... and people wonder why Senator Clinton referred to a vast right wing conspiracy."
It was actually half-vast, not fully vast.
CARLSON: I must say, aren't you -- vast right wing conspiracy, that's so embarrassing to say something...
BEGALA: It's censorship by an organized right-wing group of thugs that doesn't want free speech.
From the left I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: OK. From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. Have a great night.
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