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CNN Crossfire
Governor Schwarzenegger Day One
Aired November 17, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Terminator really is the governor.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR-ELECT: I will well and faithfully discharge...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The duties upon which I am about to enter.
SCHWARZENEGGER: ... the duties upon which I am about to enter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations, Governor Schwarzenegger.
SCHWARZENEGGER: Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: How long will the honeymoon last?
SCHWARZENEGGER: I realize I was elected on faith and hope. And I feel a great responsibility not to let the people down.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE on the day that saw an event Democrats never believed would happen even in their worst nightmares. But, in the state of California, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is now on the job.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Yes, and his first act as governor was to throw the state budget even further out of whack. Well, California, you wanted him. Now you've got him.
And we'll debate what to do with him right after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." In preparation for his visit to England this week, our leader has afforded an exclusive interview to a representative of the British press, not "The Times of London" or even "The Financial Times." No, our president talked to "The Sun," a tabloid that always features topless women on page three. Talk about family values. "The Sun," of course, is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who also owns the Fox News Channel and "The New York Post."
Who says a couple of exposed breasts should get in the way of family values when it comes to paying back political favors? There's no limit to what President Bush will do to pander his right-wing buddies.
CARLSON: James, Since the left did support Stalinism for as long as it did, it may be hard for you to understand that, actually, there's a bunch of different papers in England and it's OK to interview in any of them. And when did he turn into such an appalling
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I gave an interview to "Playboy." They show more than breasts.
CARLSON: Well, good for you.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: But I don't go out there and pontificate about how other people ought to lead their lives, which he does all the time. What he ought to do is, if he's such a big family values and everything else...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Why don't he just give his interviews to "Family Circle" or "Better Homes and Gardens" or something?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Bush is not -- I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You're living out this dumb caricature of Bush as this right-wing maniac, which I wish he were sometimes.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Because he is always preaching to people about how they lead their lives.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: So what the hell is he doing giving it to a bunch of boobs flopping around there, which I like fine? But why the hell do you want to give them an interview?
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: So you're anti-boob and yet you're pro-boob at the same time.
CARVILLE: I'm pro-boob. I don't like the boob we've got in the White House. I like the boobs on women's chests.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: OK. Here we go.
Well, do you remember all the smug and yet poorly informed liberals who reflexively dismissed the idea that Saddam Hussein had links to Osama bin Laden? Well, the latest "Weekly Standard" contains a remarkable piece that proves -- surprise, surprise -- they had no clue what they were talking about.
In the story, ace reporter Steve Hayes describes a top-secret memo sent just last month by the Pentagon to the chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, a bipartisan group. The memo outlines, in remarkable detail, corroborated by multiple credible sources, a collaborative relationship between Saddam and bin Laden that lasted for more than 10 years and ended only this spring with the American invasion.
Saddam sent his intelligence chief and head bomb-maker to see bin Laden in Khartoum and helped train al Qaeda multiple times. Bin Laden himself visited Baghdad, where he met with Tariq Aziz, now in custody. It goes on like this, page after page. It's not a theory. It's real. And it's enough by itself to justify the war in Iraq.
And I'll pretend you're going to say that it has know basis in fact. You haven't even read it.
CARVILLE: Douglas Feith wrote that. In here, he is described as the single biggest idiot to ever serve in the United States government. The week -- I saw Fred Barnes flopping around like a fish on deck trying to justify
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You haven't even read the story.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: I don't have to read "The Weekly Standard" and Douglas Feith to know how ignorant they are.
The most effective Democratic consultant today can't be found in Washington, D.C. You won't see his name in "The New York Times" or "The Washington Post." He's in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Scott Arceneaux is the son of Bill Arceneaux, one of the most respected people in Louisiana, and is the executive director of the Louisiana Democratic Party.
He helped Senator Mary Landrieu come back and win after the Republican sweep of the 2002 elections. He helped Rodney Alexander win a seat held by the Republicans. And now he's made a fool of Tucker Carlson by helping Kathleen Babineaux Blanco come from 10 points behind to become the first female governor in Louisiana history.
Louisiana is the only Southern state to have two Democratic senators and a Democratic governor. Message to Terry McAuliffe: Buy this kid a first-class ticket to Washington. Have a limo waiting at the airport to take him to the Four Seasons and go listen to what he has to say. He knows to do what we don't, win elections in the South for Democrats.
CARLSON: Actually, I can help you. Just run people who aren't left-wing. Actually, this woman's pretty reasonable, pretty conservative.
But my question, you've sucked up to this character, Scott Arceneaux, about four times in your alert. I know you well enough that you don't do that for no reason. Is she paying you, buying you dinner? What's the answer?
CARVILLE: Actually, his trusted aide-de-camp is Mary Patricia Carville Hoffman (ph), otherwise known as my sister Pat.
CARLSON: Oh.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: We Cajuns got to stick together down there. By the way, this is a talented kid. This is the most talented kid in the party.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Arceneaux is as good -- when you're an Arceneaux, you're a pure, I.D.ed, bona fide cunan (ph).
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Like me. Like me.
CARLSON: I don't even know what that is, but I'm impressed nevertheless.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Well, Howard Dean, M.D., is 55 years old today. Happy birthday, Howard Dean. To celebrate, the New England spark plug is holding a combination fund-raiser and birthday bash tonight here in Washington.
And, of course, no event in the life of Howard Dean would be complete without raising money, hence, a Web pitch to join a birthday party house event, where you can donate your $55. Dean has already received an early birthday present from New Hampshire. A new Marist poll shows the diminutive doctor leading Senator John Kerry 44 percent to 23 percent. That's 21 points.
Well, at 55 years old, Howard Dean has almost everything except the respect and backing of the tired, corrupt, and unimaginative Democratic establishment here in Washington.
(LAUGHTER)
real They hate him. And they should hate him, because the second, the very moment Howard Dean gets his party's nomination, they're out of a job. That moment can't come too soon. Good luck, Howard Dean.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Well, it's interesting. I'm glad he's raising $55 a pop, because he's not selling favors to the coal industry, like this president is.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He's not selling prescription drugs to pharmaceuticals. They pass a bill. They allowed a
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who hates him? Hold on. I don't know anybody that hates Howard Dean.
CARLSON: Really? I wonder
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I think I'm a member of the corrupt, antiquated, unimaginative Democratic
CARLSON: Are you a Dean
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Yes, I like him fine. He was on the show. (CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm not supporting anybody for president.
CARLSON: Will you be happy if he gets your party's nomination?
CARVILLE: I'm not supporting anybody.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, I am.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: You don't know what you're talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I happen to be an unimaginative, corrupt, old-line, establishment, Washington Democrat, and I don't know anybody that hates Howard Dean.
CARLSON: Really? I don't know a single Democrat who likes him, not one.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You don't know any Democrats.
CARLSON: That's not true. I know
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Go ask Douglas Feith.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Unfortunately.
Well, it's a California -- speaking of Democrats, it's the California Democrats' worst nightmare come true. Arnold Schwarzenegger has been sworn in as the governor of the Golden State. Now that he's in charge, what's next?
And later: Just what was Bill Clinton's role at last night's American Music Awards? Can you imagine?
We'll answer that question. We'll be right back.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Governor -- that's right, not actor, not body builder -- Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger today called on Californians to -- quote -- "put the rancor of the past behind us and do the extraordinary." Well, he certainly can't do worse than his predecessor, Gray Davis. But can he bring his state back? That's our debate.
We're joined from San Francisco by California Democratic Party Chairman Art Torres. And in Sacramento, at the inaugural, is Republican Congressman David Dreier, the chairman of Governor Schwarzenegger's transition team.
Welcome.
CARVILLE: Hello.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: James, Tucker, and my friend Art Torres, it's great to be back with you all. And I will tell you, the answer to that direct question there is yes. And I think that even Art Torres should agree.
CARVILLE: All right. What was the direct question?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Why don't you reformulate it?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Can Arnold Schwarzenegger in fact bring the state back?
ART TORRES, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIRMAN: All I've got to say from California is, Cajuns rule, baby. Congratulations.
CARVILLE: All right. Thank you, Kathleen Babineaux Blanco.
All right, here we go.
TORRES: That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Mr. Chairman, Congressman, can I show you a clip of something that the governor said today in his inaugural address, please?
DREIER: Well, you know I won't be able to see it, but I'll listen to it.
CARVILLE: You'll listen to it.
DREIER: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARZENEGGER: As soon as I go inside the Capitol behind me, I will sign my first order as governor. I will sign executive order No. 1, which will repeal the 300 percent increase in the car tax.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARVILLE: Congressman, as a good fiscal conservative, like you are, of course, you have fought these deficits all the way. And Governor Schwarzenegger is a good fiscal conservative. What percent of the cuts out of education and what percent out of health care will come to pay for this $4 billion? How much are we looking at, 50/50?
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: A great big -- a great big zero, James. And I will tell you that...
CARVILLE: Are we going to pay for it out of transportation?
DREIER: No. No, let me just tell you.
What he said in his speech -- and we just had a great lunch inside with the speaker of the assembly, Herb Wesson, and lots of other Democrats, praising him widely and looking forward to working closely with him to make sure that we can, now that he has repealed the tripling of the car tax, which was one of the biggest issues of this campaign, focus on bringing about responsible cuts, making some tough decisions, but, at the same time, James, getting the economic engine of California moving again. And that's, I believe, what Arnold Schwarzenegger is poised to do.
CARVILLE: What percent of these cuts are the children and schools going to have to pay for, say, $2 billion? Are they going to get cut or what?
DREIER: You know, James, James, that's the same standard old line that's always given. Republicans want to throw children out in the street; they want to starve senior citizens. And you all know that it's not the case. You try to raise the concern and the ire of people by making that claim.
I believe that there are areas, waste, fraud, and abuse that can be cut. I believe that responsible management within the operations of the government -- and I will tell you, Donna Arduin is going to have to make some tough decisions. But these decisions are going to be done in a bipartisan way.
CARLSON: Mr. Torres, thanks for joining us.
It seems to me, one of the problems with waging savage, total political war, as you do, is, there's a day after. And sometimes your man loses, as he did this time. And you're stuck
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: Or woman, yes.
CARLSON: We're stuck with things like this.
You said August 29, you described your current governor as -- quote -- "a sexual predator," Arnold Schwarzenegger. He's now the governor of your state. Do you regret saying that?
TORRES: I think that we have to move on, Tucker.
First of all, congratulations to Chairman Dreier.
CARLSON: I'm not talking about we. I'm talking about you specifically. Do you -- this is not a corporate thing. This is you specifically, Art Torres. You called him a sexual predator. Do your regret it?
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: Tucker, let me just congratulate Chairman Dreier for an excellent job in putting a good transition team together.
DREIER: Thank you, Art.
TORRES: And I think that what he said earlier was...
DREIER: I've enjoyed being with you on this show for a long time.
TORRES: It is. And congratulations, David. And I respect you very much for what you were able to do during the campaign and clearly in the transition team, because it has been seamless.
The relationship between the governor and the ex-governor was terrific, as acknowledged by the current governor. I think Maria Shriver was the star of this inaugural, quoting from Mary Angelo (ph), especially talking about that we're neither devils, nor divine, Tucker. And so we have to move on and deal with these budget issues.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: OK, I'm sorry. But when we say things in public, it's fair to call us on them. I'm calling you on what you said. And I want to know if you regret it.
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: You think -- you think -- as I said, I want to move on to work for the betterment of all of California. We're going to disagree on some issues, as Jim articulated on education and where cuts are going to be made.
But right now, we have a $29 billion deficit. And, quite frankly, this governor is going to have to face the
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So you are going to continue to call people names? Is that what you're saying?
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: I am willing to accept Art Torres' statement. I am willing to take Art Torres' statement to move ahead.
TORRES: Yes, let's move ahead.
CARVILLE: Congressman, let's talk a little bit about national politics. Some speculation that you might be a candidate for the United States Senate. Can you confirm or deny your intention to run for the Senate from the great state of California?
DREIER: James, I've taken out my papers to file for reelection. I have a great thrill and honor sharing the House Rules Committee and working within our 10-member leadership team, elected leadership team, moving an agenda. I'm getting on the red eye as soon as I leave here tonight to be there and look at the Rules Committee's focus on Medicare prescription drugs, the energy bill, those things that you were just criticizing, James.
So I'm looking forward to continuing the battle with you on those issues.
CARVILLE: So I gather that means that you are running for the Senate?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: In case you don't know the way people in Washington talk, that says that he's really giving a lot of thought to running for the Senate. That's what that answer says.
(LAUGHTER)
DREIER: OK, then wait and see.
CARLSON: OK.
Mr. Torres, I want to read you a quote from Bill Lockyer, as you know, your California attorney general, I think the third highest- ranking Democrat -- or now the second -- in your state. This is from an op-ed he wrote for "The San Jose Mercury News" just a couple of days ago -- quote -- "Rightly or wrongly, voters saw Schwarzenegger as an agent of change and hope, someone who would base decisions on what worked best for people, not on the prevailing political winds. That is why, after voting no on the recall, I voted for governor-elect Schwarzenegger. I felt that, at this time in our history, governor- elect Schwarzenegger was the better choice to get California back on the right track."
A lot of Democrats voted for Schwarzenegger. A, did you? And, B, can't you now admit that Gray Davis was a pretty terrible governor?
TORRES: No, I don't think he was a terrible person or a terrible governor.
And, quite frankly, I think the attorney general has every right to his opinion. He supported the governor, no on the recall, and made his choice on governor. But I do think that now we're going to have to give this new governor an opportunity, as we've done before -- we've had Republican governors before in this state with Democratic majorities. But we're going to disagree substantially in terms of hocking the future of our children and grandchildren with some of these bond initiatives.
Let me just give you a rundown. We have a $27 billion outstanding lease revenue bonds to be paid back. We've got $23 billion already authorized by the voters that haven't been let out. And, in March, we're going to have a $12.3 billion school bond on the ballot. So we better be very careful, Democrats and Republicans, on how we frame the future for California and whether Wall Street will finally put up their hands and say, wait a minute, you're going to have to have spending cuts, and you're going to have to have some kind of tax increases in order to have a balanced budget and be responsible about it.
Ronald Reagan found that out after being in office two days in 1967.
CARVILLE: Congressman, let me
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Let me just say that I think that was a very conciliatory statement that you made there, Art. And it's great to be on a program with you where we can have this kind of exchange.
I think the real difference is, obviously, we will look at spending cuts. This governor will look at spending cuts. The new director of the Department of Finance will do that. But making sure that we keep the economy growing is critically important. And you know, Art, as well as I and virtually any economist, that increasing taxes as you're attempting to see the economy emerge from a slow -- from a downturn -- is not good policy.
And that's why what we want to do is not increase taxes, but encourage economic growth through possibly reducing the top rate on capital gains to stimulate the economy here. So that's the kind of stuff we can do.
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: Well, that's something that's certainly on the table, Dave. But you also have to look at the future in terms of what you're going to have to pay in interest.
DREIER: Absolutely. I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Gentlemen, I'm just going to have to cut you off right there very quickly. We'll be right back.
When we return, in "Rapid Fire," we'll ask, what is next for former Governor Gray Davis?
And right after the break: Will John Allen Muhammad face the death penalty or life in prison for the D.C. sniper killings? Wolf Blitzer will have the latest on Muhammad's case just ahead.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
CARVILLE: OK, it's time for "Rapid Fire," which is liable to be the only thing in politics that's shorter than Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's honeymoon.
We're talking with California Democratic Party Chairman Art Torres and Republican Congressman and Chairman of the Rules Committee David Dreier.
DREIER: You're something else, James. You're something else.
CARVILLE: The chairman of the governor-elect's -- is that -- am I right? -- transition team.
You're the chairman of everything, Congressman. You're the chairman of the damn chairmen.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Art Torres, the most poisonous rhetoric by far during this recall came from the Democratic Party spokesman Bob Mulholland, who said at one point that Schwarzenegger should not be elected because -- quote -- "His dad was in the Nazi Army." Shouldn't you fire Bob Mulholland first off now that Schwarzenegger is governor?
TORRES: He's not my employee. He's a consultant of the Democratic Party. And you can't always control your consultants, as both of you well know.
CARVILLE: Oh, my goodness. You can't control...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Congressman, give me a -- what's Governor -- I want to be kind of non -- give you a shot here -- what's Governor Schwarzenegger's hope for California, very quickly? What do you think he hopes for the state? DREIER: His hope for California is to get the economic engine of the state moving again, to focus on education, to make sure that we once again become a great state that we once were. Democrats and Republicans today at the lunch that we just had, James, indicated that they want to be part of that. And they recognize that people want to bring about change.
CARLSON: Art Torres, former Governor Davis implied the other day that he could run again and maybe he will. Do you think he will?
TORRES: I have no idea. I talked to him as late as a few days ago. And he indicated that he really hadn't decided on any options, other than maybe working in a foundation and perhaps reaching out. I think he can provide a lot of lessons for people entering public service. He was a tremendous public servant, gave a lot of his life, literally, materially, as well as his time and his energy.
And I think we have a debt of gratitude for Sharon and Gray Davis for their years of public service. And now we need to all move on and make sure that the dreams that Arnold talked about in his speech today, clearly invoking the idealist with no illusions, the Kennedy lines and Reagan lines. I think he was trying to reach out to both parties. And I think that, when he does that, with that olive branch, we can all hopefully work together.
We're going to have differences. But those differences are going to be, as the battle presumes, once the legislature opens up tomorrow.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Thank you again for that, Art.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... disgustingly nonpartisan .
(LAUGHTER)
DREIER: Yes, exactly. But that's what today is all about, by the way. That is what today is about.
CARLSON: OK.
DREIER: Gray Davis was extraordinarily gracious in this process.
Thank you, Art.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That is a very nice thing to say.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman Dreier, Chairman Torres
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: Chairman, Chairman, Chairman. We've got chairmen everywhere.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Thanks for joining us, both of you.
TORRES: Thank you, gentlemen.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: All right.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Everyone knows about former President Bill Clinton's love of music. So it's no surprise that he was a presence at last night's American Music Awards. We'll explain that in a minute.
But our question today refers to Mr. Clinton's appearance on "The Arsenio Hall Show" in 1992. What song did Clinton play during that appearance? "Blue Suede Shoes? Was it "Hound Dog" or "Heartbreak Hotel"?
We'll have the answer right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Time for another segment. But first, the answer to our audience question, in which we asked, what was the song Bill Clinton played along with on his saxophone in his famous appearance in 1992 on "The Arsenio Hall Show"? Was it "Blue Suede Shoes," said 34 percent of our audience. "Hound Dog," said 37 percent; 29 percent guessed correctly, "Heartbreak Hotel, "Heartbreak Hotel." Those of you who are English majors will recognize "Heartbreak Hotel as foreshadowing of the eight years that followed.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I was there, all right?
Finally, the rock stars at last night's American Music Awards show were given gift baskets that had 150-so items valued at about $31,000. There were airline tickets and vacations in Jamaica. Not bad. There were even gift certificates for laser eye surgery. Ouch. But the most-talked about goody in the basket wasn't the most expensive. Here it is, uptown Bill. He rocks. He rolls. He sways to the beat. He wins two consecutive terms, leaves a multi-trillion surplus that his successor can squander. And he only costs about 15 bucks, if you shop around.
And here we go, ladies and gentlemen.
CARLSON: That's perfect. He's cheap. He's loud. CARVILLE: There it is.
CARLSON: He's kind of embarrassing. But he makes us laugh sometimes.
CARVILLE: What's embarrassing? He's having fun.
CARLSON: That's right. He's wearing a polyester outfit. He looks kind of pasty.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: I'll tell you what. The man knew how to govern.
CARLSON: The man knew how to govern?
CARVILLE: The man knew how to govern.
CARLSON: He's embarrassing me even now, James.
CARVILLE: Well, not me. Go ahead, big Bill.
CARLSON: Yes.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again tomorrow, Tuesday, for another edition more CROSSFIRE.
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Aired November 17, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Terminator really is the governor.
ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GOVERNOR-ELECT: I will well and faithfully discharge...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The duties upon which I am about to enter.
SCHWARZENEGGER: ... the duties upon which I am about to enter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations, Governor Schwarzenegger.
SCHWARZENEGGER: Thank you.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: How long will the honeymoon last?
SCHWARZENEGGER: I realize I was elected on faith and hope. And I feel a great responsibility not to let the people down.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE on the day that saw an event Democrats never believed would happen even in their worst nightmares. But, in the state of California, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is now on the job.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Yes, and his first act as governor was to throw the state budget even further out of whack. Well, California, you wanted him. Now you've got him.
And we'll debate what to do with him right after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." In preparation for his visit to England this week, our leader has afforded an exclusive interview to a representative of the British press, not "The Times of London" or even "The Financial Times." No, our president talked to "The Sun," a tabloid that always features topless women on page three. Talk about family values. "The Sun," of course, is owned by Rupert Murdoch, who also owns the Fox News Channel and "The New York Post."
Who says a couple of exposed breasts should get in the way of family values when it comes to paying back political favors? There's no limit to what President Bush will do to pander his right-wing buddies.
CARLSON: James, Since the left did support Stalinism for as long as it did, it may be hard for you to understand that, actually, there's a bunch of different papers in England and it's OK to interview in any of them. And when did he turn into such an appalling
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I gave an interview to "Playboy." They show more than breasts.
CARLSON: Well, good for you.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: But I don't go out there and pontificate about how other people ought to lead their lives, which he does all the time. What he ought to do is, if he's such a big family values and everything else...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Why don't he just give his interviews to "Family Circle" or "Better Homes and Gardens" or something?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Bush is not -- I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You're living out this dumb caricature of Bush as this right-wing maniac, which I wish he were sometimes.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Because he is always preaching to people about how they lead their lives.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: So what the hell is he doing giving it to a bunch of boobs flopping around there, which I like fine? But why the hell do you want to give them an interview?
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: So you're anti-boob and yet you're pro-boob at the same time.
CARVILLE: I'm pro-boob. I don't like the boob we've got in the White House. I like the boobs on women's chests.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: OK. Here we go.
Well, do you remember all the smug and yet poorly informed liberals who reflexively dismissed the idea that Saddam Hussein had links to Osama bin Laden? Well, the latest "Weekly Standard" contains a remarkable piece that proves -- surprise, surprise -- they had no clue what they were talking about.
In the story, ace reporter Steve Hayes describes a top-secret memo sent just last month by the Pentagon to the chairman and vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, a bipartisan group. The memo outlines, in remarkable detail, corroborated by multiple credible sources, a collaborative relationship between Saddam and bin Laden that lasted for more than 10 years and ended only this spring with the American invasion.
Saddam sent his intelligence chief and head bomb-maker to see bin Laden in Khartoum and helped train al Qaeda multiple times. Bin Laden himself visited Baghdad, where he met with Tariq Aziz, now in custody. It goes on like this, page after page. It's not a theory. It's real. And it's enough by itself to justify the war in Iraq.
And I'll pretend you're going to say that it has know basis in fact. You haven't even read it.
CARVILLE: Douglas Feith wrote that. In here, he is described as the single biggest idiot to ever serve in the United States government. The week -- I saw Fred Barnes flopping around like a fish on deck trying to justify
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You haven't even read the story.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: I don't have to read "The Weekly Standard" and Douglas Feith to know how ignorant they are.
The most effective Democratic consultant today can't be found in Washington, D.C. You won't see his name in "The New York Times" or "The Washington Post." He's in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Scott Arceneaux is the son of Bill Arceneaux, one of the most respected people in Louisiana, and is the executive director of the Louisiana Democratic Party.
He helped Senator Mary Landrieu come back and win after the Republican sweep of the 2002 elections. He helped Rodney Alexander win a seat held by the Republicans. And now he's made a fool of Tucker Carlson by helping Kathleen Babineaux Blanco come from 10 points behind to become the first female governor in Louisiana history.
Louisiana is the only Southern state to have two Democratic senators and a Democratic governor. Message to Terry McAuliffe: Buy this kid a first-class ticket to Washington. Have a limo waiting at the airport to take him to the Four Seasons and go listen to what he has to say. He knows to do what we don't, win elections in the South for Democrats.
CARLSON: Actually, I can help you. Just run people who aren't left-wing. Actually, this woman's pretty reasonable, pretty conservative.
But my question, you've sucked up to this character, Scott Arceneaux, about four times in your alert. I know you well enough that you don't do that for no reason. Is she paying you, buying you dinner? What's the answer?
CARVILLE: Actually, his trusted aide-de-camp is Mary Patricia Carville Hoffman (ph), otherwise known as my sister Pat.
CARLSON: Oh.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: We Cajuns got to stick together down there. By the way, this is a talented kid. This is the most talented kid in the party.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Arceneaux is as good -- when you're an Arceneaux, you're a pure, I.D.ed, bona fide cunan (ph).
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Like me. Like me.
CARLSON: I don't even know what that is, but I'm impressed nevertheless.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Well, Howard Dean, M.D., is 55 years old today. Happy birthday, Howard Dean. To celebrate, the New England spark plug is holding a combination fund-raiser and birthday bash tonight here in Washington.
And, of course, no event in the life of Howard Dean would be complete without raising money, hence, a Web pitch to join a birthday party house event, where you can donate your $55. Dean has already received an early birthday present from New Hampshire. A new Marist poll shows the diminutive doctor leading Senator John Kerry 44 percent to 23 percent. That's 21 points.
Well, at 55 years old, Howard Dean has almost everything except the respect and backing of the tired, corrupt, and unimaginative Democratic establishment here in Washington.
(LAUGHTER)
real They hate him. And they should hate him, because the second, the very moment Howard Dean gets his party's nomination, they're out of a job. That moment can't come too soon. Good luck, Howard Dean.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Well, it's interesting. I'm glad he's raising $55 a pop, because he's not selling favors to the coal industry, like this president is.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He's not selling prescription drugs to pharmaceuticals. They pass a bill. They allowed a
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Who hates him? Hold on. I don't know anybody that hates Howard Dean.
CARLSON: Really? I wonder
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I think I'm a member of the corrupt, antiquated, unimaginative Democratic
CARLSON: Are you a Dean
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Yes, I like him fine. He was on the show. (CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm not supporting anybody for president.
CARLSON: Will you be happy if he gets your party's nomination?
CARVILLE: I'm not supporting anybody.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, I am.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: You don't know what you're talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I happen to be an unimaginative, corrupt, old-line, establishment, Washington Democrat, and I don't know anybody that hates Howard Dean.
CARLSON: Really? I don't know a single Democrat who likes him, not one.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You don't know any Democrats.
CARLSON: That's not true. I know
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Go ask Douglas Feith.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Unfortunately.
Well, it's a California -- speaking of Democrats, it's the California Democrats' worst nightmare come true. Arnold Schwarzenegger has been sworn in as the governor of the Golden State. Now that he's in charge, what's next?
And later: Just what was Bill Clinton's role at last night's American Music Awards? Can you imagine?
We'll answer that question. We'll be right back.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Governor -- that's right, not actor, not body builder -- Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger today called on Californians to -- quote -- "put the rancor of the past behind us and do the extraordinary." Well, he certainly can't do worse than his predecessor, Gray Davis. But can he bring his state back? That's our debate.
We're joined from San Francisco by California Democratic Party Chairman Art Torres. And in Sacramento, at the inaugural, is Republican Congressman David Dreier, the chairman of Governor Schwarzenegger's transition team.
Welcome.
CARVILLE: Hello.
(CROSSTALK)
REP. DAVID DREIER (R), CALIFORNIA: James, Tucker, and my friend Art Torres, it's great to be back with you all. And I will tell you, the answer to that direct question there is yes. And I think that even Art Torres should agree.
CARVILLE: All right. What was the direct question?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Why don't you reformulate it?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Can Arnold Schwarzenegger in fact bring the state back?
ART TORRES, CALIFORNIA DEMOCRATIC PARTY CHAIRMAN: All I've got to say from California is, Cajuns rule, baby. Congratulations.
CARVILLE: All right. Thank you, Kathleen Babineaux Blanco.
All right, here we go.
TORRES: That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Mr. Chairman, Congressman, can I show you a clip of something that the governor said today in his inaugural address, please?
DREIER: Well, you know I won't be able to see it, but I'll listen to it.
CARVILLE: You'll listen to it.
DREIER: Yes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCHWARZENEGGER: As soon as I go inside the Capitol behind me, I will sign my first order as governor. I will sign executive order No. 1, which will repeal the 300 percent increase in the car tax.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARVILLE: Congressman, as a good fiscal conservative, like you are, of course, you have fought these deficits all the way. And Governor Schwarzenegger is a good fiscal conservative. What percent of the cuts out of education and what percent out of health care will come to pay for this $4 billion? How much are we looking at, 50/50?
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: A great big -- a great big zero, James. And I will tell you that...
CARVILLE: Are we going to pay for it out of transportation?
DREIER: No. No, let me just tell you.
What he said in his speech -- and we just had a great lunch inside with the speaker of the assembly, Herb Wesson, and lots of other Democrats, praising him widely and looking forward to working closely with him to make sure that we can, now that he has repealed the tripling of the car tax, which was one of the biggest issues of this campaign, focus on bringing about responsible cuts, making some tough decisions, but, at the same time, James, getting the economic engine of California moving again. And that's, I believe, what Arnold Schwarzenegger is poised to do.
CARVILLE: What percent of these cuts are the children and schools going to have to pay for, say, $2 billion? Are they going to get cut or what?
DREIER: You know, James, James, that's the same standard old line that's always given. Republicans want to throw children out in the street; they want to starve senior citizens. And you all know that it's not the case. You try to raise the concern and the ire of people by making that claim.
I believe that there are areas, waste, fraud, and abuse that can be cut. I believe that responsible management within the operations of the government -- and I will tell you, Donna Arduin is going to have to make some tough decisions. But these decisions are going to be done in a bipartisan way.
CARLSON: Mr. Torres, thanks for joining us.
It seems to me, one of the problems with waging savage, total political war, as you do, is, there's a day after. And sometimes your man loses, as he did this time. And you're stuck
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: Or woman, yes.
CARLSON: We're stuck with things like this.
You said August 29, you described your current governor as -- quote -- "a sexual predator," Arnold Schwarzenegger. He's now the governor of your state. Do you regret saying that?
TORRES: I think that we have to move on, Tucker.
First of all, congratulations to Chairman Dreier.
CARLSON: I'm not talking about we. I'm talking about you specifically. Do you -- this is not a corporate thing. This is you specifically, Art Torres. You called him a sexual predator. Do your regret it?
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: Tucker, let me just congratulate Chairman Dreier for an excellent job in putting a good transition team together.
DREIER: Thank you, Art.
TORRES: And I think that what he said earlier was...
DREIER: I've enjoyed being with you on this show for a long time.
TORRES: It is. And congratulations, David. And I respect you very much for what you were able to do during the campaign and clearly in the transition team, because it has been seamless.
The relationship between the governor and the ex-governor was terrific, as acknowledged by the current governor. I think Maria Shriver was the star of this inaugural, quoting from Mary Angelo (ph), especially talking about that we're neither devils, nor divine, Tucker. And so we have to move on and deal with these budget issues.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: OK, I'm sorry. But when we say things in public, it's fair to call us on them. I'm calling you on what you said. And I want to know if you regret it.
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: You think -- you think -- as I said, I want to move on to work for the betterment of all of California. We're going to disagree on some issues, as Jim articulated on education and where cuts are going to be made.
But right now, we have a $29 billion deficit. And, quite frankly, this governor is going to have to face the
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So you are going to continue to call people names? Is that what you're saying?
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: I am willing to accept Art Torres' statement. I am willing to take Art Torres' statement to move ahead.
TORRES: Yes, let's move ahead.
CARVILLE: Congressman, let's talk a little bit about national politics. Some speculation that you might be a candidate for the United States Senate. Can you confirm or deny your intention to run for the Senate from the great state of California?
DREIER: James, I've taken out my papers to file for reelection. I have a great thrill and honor sharing the House Rules Committee and working within our 10-member leadership team, elected leadership team, moving an agenda. I'm getting on the red eye as soon as I leave here tonight to be there and look at the Rules Committee's focus on Medicare prescription drugs, the energy bill, those things that you were just criticizing, James.
So I'm looking forward to continuing the battle with you on those issues.
CARVILLE: So I gather that means that you are running for the Senate?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: In case you don't know the way people in Washington talk, that says that he's really giving a lot of thought to running for the Senate. That's what that answer says.
(LAUGHTER)
DREIER: OK, then wait and see.
CARLSON: OK.
Mr. Torres, I want to read you a quote from Bill Lockyer, as you know, your California attorney general, I think the third highest- ranking Democrat -- or now the second -- in your state. This is from an op-ed he wrote for "The San Jose Mercury News" just a couple of days ago -- quote -- "Rightly or wrongly, voters saw Schwarzenegger as an agent of change and hope, someone who would base decisions on what worked best for people, not on the prevailing political winds. That is why, after voting no on the recall, I voted for governor-elect Schwarzenegger. I felt that, at this time in our history, governor- elect Schwarzenegger was the better choice to get California back on the right track."
A lot of Democrats voted for Schwarzenegger. A, did you? And, B, can't you now admit that Gray Davis was a pretty terrible governor?
TORRES: No, I don't think he was a terrible person or a terrible governor.
And, quite frankly, I think the attorney general has every right to his opinion. He supported the governor, no on the recall, and made his choice on governor. But I do think that now we're going to have to give this new governor an opportunity, as we've done before -- we've had Republican governors before in this state with Democratic majorities. But we're going to disagree substantially in terms of hocking the future of our children and grandchildren with some of these bond initiatives.
Let me just give you a rundown. We have a $27 billion outstanding lease revenue bonds to be paid back. We've got $23 billion already authorized by the voters that haven't been let out. And, in March, we're going to have a $12.3 billion school bond on the ballot. So we better be very careful, Democrats and Republicans, on how we frame the future for California and whether Wall Street will finally put up their hands and say, wait a minute, you're going to have to have spending cuts, and you're going to have to have some kind of tax increases in order to have a balanced budget and be responsible about it.
Ronald Reagan found that out after being in office two days in 1967.
CARVILLE: Congressman, let me
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Let me just say that I think that was a very conciliatory statement that you made there, Art. And it's great to be on a program with you where we can have this kind of exchange.
I think the real difference is, obviously, we will look at spending cuts. This governor will look at spending cuts. The new director of the Department of Finance will do that. But making sure that we keep the economy growing is critically important. And you know, Art, as well as I and virtually any economist, that increasing taxes as you're attempting to see the economy emerge from a slow -- from a downturn -- is not good policy.
And that's why what we want to do is not increase taxes, but encourage economic growth through possibly reducing the top rate on capital gains to stimulate the economy here. So that's the kind of stuff we can do.
(CROSSTALK)
TORRES: Well, that's something that's certainly on the table, Dave. But you also have to look at the future in terms of what you're going to have to pay in interest.
DREIER: Absolutely. I agree.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Gentlemen, I'm just going to have to cut you off right there very quickly. We'll be right back.
When we return, in "Rapid Fire," we'll ask, what is next for former Governor Gray Davis?
And right after the break: Will John Allen Muhammad face the death penalty or life in prison for the D.C. sniper killings? Wolf Blitzer will have the latest on Muhammad's case just ahead.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
CARVILLE: OK, it's time for "Rapid Fire," which is liable to be the only thing in politics that's shorter than Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger's honeymoon.
We're talking with California Democratic Party Chairman Art Torres and Republican Congressman and Chairman of the Rules Committee David Dreier.
DREIER: You're something else, James. You're something else.
CARVILLE: The chairman of the governor-elect's -- is that -- am I right? -- transition team.
You're the chairman of everything, Congressman. You're the chairman of the damn chairmen.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Art Torres, the most poisonous rhetoric by far during this recall came from the Democratic Party spokesman Bob Mulholland, who said at one point that Schwarzenegger should not be elected because -- quote -- "His dad was in the Nazi Army." Shouldn't you fire Bob Mulholland first off now that Schwarzenegger is governor?
TORRES: He's not my employee. He's a consultant of the Democratic Party. And you can't always control your consultants, as both of you well know.
CARVILLE: Oh, my goodness. You can't control...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Congressman, give me a -- what's Governor -- I want to be kind of non -- give you a shot here -- what's Governor Schwarzenegger's hope for California, very quickly? What do you think he hopes for the state? DREIER: His hope for California is to get the economic engine of the state moving again, to focus on education, to make sure that we once again become a great state that we once were. Democrats and Republicans today at the lunch that we just had, James, indicated that they want to be part of that. And they recognize that people want to bring about change.
CARLSON: Art Torres, former Governor Davis implied the other day that he could run again and maybe he will. Do you think he will?
TORRES: I have no idea. I talked to him as late as a few days ago. And he indicated that he really hadn't decided on any options, other than maybe working in a foundation and perhaps reaching out. I think he can provide a lot of lessons for people entering public service. He was a tremendous public servant, gave a lot of his life, literally, materially, as well as his time and his energy.
And I think we have a debt of gratitude for Sharon and Gray Davis for their years of public service. And now we need to all move on and make sure that the dreams that Arnold talked about in his speech today, clearly invoking the idealist with no illusions, the Kennedy lines and Reagan lines. I think he was trying to reach out to both parties. And I think that, when he does that, with that olive branch, we can all hopefully work together.
We're going to have differences. But those differences are going to be, as the battle presumes, once the legislature opens up tomorrow.
(CROSSTALK)
DREIER: Thank you again for that, Art.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... disgustingly nonpartisan .
(LAUGHTER)
DREIER: Yes, exactly. But that's what today is all about, by the way. That is what today is about.
CARLSON: OK.
DREIER: Gray Davis was extraordinarily gracious in this process.
Thank you, Art.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That is a very nice thing to say.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman Dreier, Chairman Torres
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: Chairman, Chairman, Chairman. We've got chairmen everywhere.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Thanks for joining us, both of you.
TORRES: Thank you, gentlemen.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: All right.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Everyone knows about former President Bill Clinton's love of music. So it's no surprise that he was a presence at last night's American Music Awards. We'll explain that in a minute.
But our question today refers to Mr. Clinton's appearance on "The Arsenio Hall Show" in 1992. What song did Clinton play during that appearance? "Blue Suede Shoes? Was it "Hound Dog" or "Heartbreak Hotel"?
We'll have the answer right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Time for another segment. But first, the answer to our audience question, in which we asked, what was the song Bill Clinton played along with on his saxophone in his famous appearance in 1992 on "The Arsenio Hall Show"? Was it "Blue Suede Shoes," said 34 percent of our audience. "Hound Dog," said 37 percent; 29 percent guessed correctly, "Heartbreak Hotel, "Heartbreak Hotel." Those of you who are English majors will recognize "Heartbreak Hotel as foreshadowing of the eight years that followed.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I was there, all right?
Finally, the rock stars at last night's American Music Awards show were given gift baskets that had 150-so items valued at about $31,000. There were airline tickets and vacations in Jamaica. Not bad. There were even gift certificates for laser eye surgery. Ouch. But the most-talked about goody in the basket wasn't the most expensive. Here it is, uptown Bill. He rocks. He rolls. He sways to the beat. He wins two consecutive terms, leaves a multi-trillion surplus that his successor can squander. And he only costs about 15 bucks, if you shop around.
And here we go, ladies and gentlemen.
CARLSON: That's perfect. He's cheap. He's loud. CARVILLE: There it is.
CARLSON: He's kind of embarrassing. But he makes us laugh sometimes.
CARVILLE: What's embarrassing? He's having fun.
CARLSON: That's right. He's wearing a polyester outfit. He looks kind of pasty.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: I'll tell you what. The man knew how to govern.
CARLSON: The man knew how to govern?
CARVILLE: The man knew how to govern.
CARLSON: He's embarrassing me even now, James.
CARVILLE: Well, not me. Go ahead, big Bill.
CARLSON: Yes.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again tomorrow, Tuesday, for another edition more CROSSFIRE.
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