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CNN Crossfire
Hollywood Plots Downfall of Bush
Aired December 02, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The stage is set in Hollywood. Tinseltown celebrities and activists gather tonight for a meeting to plot the demise of the Bush presidency. Will their efforts hurt or help the Democratic Party's bid to regain the Oval Office?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
As the election season approaches, dozens of Hollywood stars and would-be stars are lining up against President Bush. A big fund- raising bash is planned for this evening in Los Angeles.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Of course, the right-wingers, perhaps sensing Mr. Bush's vulnerability, are trying to quash any criticism.
But why is a gathering of artists and actors and singers worse than, say, Mr. Bush gathering a bunch of fat-cat lobbyists from oil companies, insurance giants and pharmaceutical conglomerates?
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: We'll debate that and more after, first, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
As a candidate, George W. Bush made military readiness a central issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AUGUST 3, 2000)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If called on by the commander in chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, not ready for duty, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BEGALA: But "The Wall Street Journal" reports today that the man who was so upset about just two divisions falling below readiness levels is now allowing three combat divisions, plus an armored cavalry regiment to fall down to the C-4 status, which is the lowest state of readiness.
Why? Well, because Mr. Bush dishonestly led us into a war against a country that posed no threat to America. And then his diplomatic incompetence kept us from having any allies there to share our soldiers' burden.
NOVAK: Paul, if you want to be against this war, against our troops fighting this war, why don't you just come out and join Dennis Kucinich and say, come home? That's what this is all about.
Of course, when you're fighting a war, it's hard to keep all divisions up at a readiness level. But why don't you join Kucinich and say, let's go home and let the terrorists take over?
BEGALA: It's about hypocrisy. Mr. Bush attacked his predecessor because two divisions were below readiness. Now he has three, plus another regiment below readiness. He's a hypocrite.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Because there was no war going on then.
BEGALA: Thank God.
NOVAK: Gavin Newsom, a 36-year-old millionaire restaurant owner, is a liberal who is the Democratic Party's choice for mayor of San Francisco. But being liberal is not enough in San Francisco.
Newsom is losing ground in next Tuesday's runoff election against a real leftist, a 38-year-old Green Party candidate, Matt Gonzalez. The good news for Newsom is that a big-name Democrat came in to campaign for him today. The bad news is that he was Al Gore. Al Gore follows Dick Gephardt, Joe Lieberman and John Kerry, all campaigning against the Greens. Is it any wonder that, with this crowd coming in, the Greenie has been gaining and the Democrat losing?
BEGALA: Yes, you know, I never see you happier than when there's a Green Party candidate out there. And liberals should all notice that guys like Ralph Nader, these Green Party leftists, who mess things up for Democrats, the only people they make happy are Bob Novak and George W. Bush.
NOVAK: Isn't the point that I was trying to make, that, when you bring in Gore, that whole crowd, Kerry, that the guy is fading against the Green candidate?
BEGALA: I don't know. Gore actually won California. Of course, Gore won America, too. That didn't seem to stop President Bush.
NOVAK: That isn't my question.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Gore is a very popular man in California.
NOVAK: That still isn't my question. Why is the guy fading?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It's called post hoc ergo propter hoc.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: It's a logical fallacy, Bob. I'll explain it to you later.
NOVAK: Oh.
BEGALA: Well, one of the most exciting details that the White House told us about the president's trip to Baghdad was when a British Airways pilot supposedly spotted Air Force One and almost spilled the beans by radioing the president's plane and asking if it really was Air Force One.
But, just like so much else we hear from the Bushies, this story doesn't stand up to scrutiny. British Airways says none of its pilots has reported seeing or contacting anyone about Air Force One. Now, the Bushies now say, well, perhaps the call went to a control tower, not Air Force One. But the Brits say, no, none of their pilots saw or said anything about Air Force One.
So how can we tell when we're being misled by the Bush White House? It's easy. Read their lips.
NOVAK: You know, maybe there was a phantom British plane...
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: But so what, is what I say. The interesting thing is, we haven't been together since Thanksgiving, Paul. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
BEGALA: Thank you. I did. I hope you did.
NOVAK: But you really hated the president going there and supporting the troops, didn't you?
BEGALA: I loved it. I went on television and said I thought it was wonderful. I hate when he lies to us, which, apparently, he has done again on this story. Just -- he's incapable of telling us the truth about anything, whether it's a silly story about Air Force One or sending troops halfway around the world to fight a war.
NOVAK: Now that you've made...
BEGALA: I don't know the guy just can't tell us the truth.
NOVAK: Now that you've made... (BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... your quotas of bashing the president twice a day, I hope we can put that aside.
BEGALA: I have not yet begun to stand up for my country.
NOVAK: The Reverend Al Sharpton's campaign for president is short on cash, $177,000 in debt and only $24,000 cash on hand. That doesn't bother Reverend Al.
Thanks to "The New York Post," we learned that the rev stays at only the fanciest hotels, Phoenician in Arizona, the Mansion on Turtle Creek in Dallas, the Ritz Carlton in Dearborn, Michigan, and the famous Mandarin Oriental in Miami. One stay at the Four Seasons in Los Angeles cost him over $7,000. Add $1,700 for a single limousine service in Chicago and you got one candidate who knows how to spend moolah. Boy, wouldn't Al Sharpton fit in here in Washington?
BEGALA: Well, what's wrong with the guy -- he happens to be a black minister from Harlem. He wants to stay in a nice hotel. Should that be against the law?
NOVAK: He doesn't have the money.
BEGALA: What's wrong with that?
NOVAK: He doesn't have the money.
BEGALA: Well, maybe he needs to get some fund-raisers. They should organize a Republicans-for-Sharpton fund-raiser.
NOVAK: Where you come -- where you come from, you have -- you stay in the best places, you and Carville. But you have the money. He doesn't have the money. Can you understand there's a difference?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, I'll tell you what. He couldn't run up more than $5 trillion of debt if he was president, which our president has done, Mr. Bush.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: So Sharpton is a fiscal conservative, compared to George W. Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: They hope to send George W. Bush packing. Tonight, some Hollywood stars get together to say how much they detest and hate the president of the United States. Will it drive George W. out of the White House or backfire against the Democrats?
We'll debate that issue when we return. Plus: race cars at the White House. What's the deal with NASCAR drivers paying a visit to President Bush today? That story later on CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Get ahead of the CROSSFIRE. Sign up for CROSSFIRE's daily "Political Alert" e-mail. You'll get a preview of each day's show, plus an inside look at the day's political headlines. Just go to CNN.com/CROSSFIRE and sign up today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
You know, the entertainment industry thrives on free expression. It doesn't hate gays and it doesn't pollute. So it's no wonder it's a pro-Democratic industry. So, tonight, dozens of celebrities and activists will gather in Los Angeles to plot strategies to try to defeat President Bush. This has right-wingers in a tizzy. They seem to believe that only tobacco, chemical and oil lobbyists ought to be politically active.
In the CROSSFIRE to talk about this and this big Hollywood get- together tonight, Brent Bozell. He is the president of the Media Research Center; and, in Los Angeles, film producer and director Robert Greenwald.
Thank you both, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, let me quote you a couple of big names from your business. Tom Cruise: "I think the U.S. is terrifying and it saddens me. You only have to look at the state of affairs in America."
And then Johnny Depp: "America is dumb. It's like a dumb puppy that has big teeth that can bite and hurt you, aggressive."
Now, can we count on you and your ilk tonight in Los Angeles putting out some more of this hate-America stuff?
ROBERT GREENWALD, PRODUCER/DIRECTOR: Well, the last time I looked, I thought it was patriotic to express your opinions and to get together and organize to get people to vote and to get people to take out of office the most divisive president in the history of our country.
The entertainment business never agrees. We can barely agree on what to order for lunch. But thanks to Mr. Bush, we've got widespread agreement among Republicans, Democrats and independents that this man is betraying the values of our country.
NOVAK: Well, to get back to my question, do you believe that the real Americans, the ordinary Americans around the country, like a lot of millionaires in Hollywood saying how bad their country is? Do you think they really enjoy that?
GREENWALD: I think that everyone has a right to express themselves, just like you do, just like the pundits on these shows, many of whom get paid millions of dollars, just like entertainers, just like teachers and educators do.
And what I love about our democracy and what I fight to keep going in our democracy is that all of us have the right to express ourselves.
BEGALA: Well, case in point -- first, Brent, good to see you again. Thank you for coming back on the program.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: There are actually plenty of Republicans and conservatives in Hollywood. No doubt, the entertainment industry is a liberal industry in the main.
But take a look. Arnold Schwarzenegger, he's the new governor of California. Fred Thompson, the former senator, now an actor. Fred Grandy, congressman was an actor, a Republican. Chuck Norris, Bruce Willis, Charlton Heston, Pat Boone, Bo Derek, Kelsey Grammer. Isn't the problem that you have not with celebrities voicing their political views, but you want to try to force them to adopt your anti-gay, right-wing, pro-deficit views, right?
(LAUGHTER)
BRENT BOZELL, PRESIDENT, MEDIA RESEARCH CENTER: I'm laughing at you, Paul.
(LAUGHTER)
BOZELL: First of all, do you -- do you see me in a tizzy?
BEGALA: Yes. Yes, your panties are in a wad. You're all upset.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: "Oh, oh. Save me from the liberals."
(CROSSTALK)
BOZELL: Look, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something, my friend. There's nothing that the Bush administration should want more than this group of lunatic-fringe leftists out there campaigning against him, because he'll win in a landslide, when you have these people against him.
If this had been 1992, where I believe the Hollywood left was far more reasonable in their rhetoric, when they were helping you guys, I would say they're going to be a force. But let me tell you, it's going to backfire. Mark my words. We'll come back here in about 18 months and I'm going to be laughing at you again, because this one's going to backfire.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, so, help me understand why anybody in Hollywood would be a conservative. There's plenty out there. Help me understand. I understand there's a panoply of them.
BOZELL: You just named the entire -- you just named the entirety of the conservative movement in Hollywood.
BEGALA: That may well be, that maybe that there's only eight or 10, the folks that I named.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'm surprised there's even that many. Again, this is an administration that's...
BOZELL: I'm surprised they survived.
BEGALA: .. virulently anti-guy. It's pro-deficit. It's hurt jobs.
BOZELL: It's pro deficit?
BEGALA: It's hurt exports.
Yes, $5 trillion of debt and counting, Brent.
BOZELL: It's pro deficit?
BEGALA: Why would any Hollywood person be a conservative?
BOZELL: But it's this kind of rhetoric that puts you on the fringe.
Now, I listened to you before the break. And all you could say was, George Bush, dishonest, dishonest.
BEGALA: He is dishonest. He lied.
BOZELL: You, the man who worked for Bill Clinton.
BEGALA: Who lied about a girlfriend, not a war. There's a hell of difference, Brent.
NOVAK: Mr. Greenwald...
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, you want to say something here?
GREENWALD: Yes.
I think that the point is that you focus on the Hollywood citizens. You focus on the profile of some. But it's a very diverse community with all kinds of people and all kinds of views. But what's extraordinary is the variety of people who finally can agree on something. I've never seen as many people agree.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Mr. -- Robert Greenwald, let me stipulate that we all have a right to express our opinions. You've made that speech twice.
GREENWALD: Good. Well, I appreciate that.
NOVAK: You don't have to convince me. I make my living exercising the First Amendment. And so does Brent. We all do.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: But I want to -- so let's just stick to what I'm talking about and not make that little Fourth of July speech.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: James Cromwell, who is an actor, he said on this network a while ago, he said: "We are no different than any other people throughout the country. If they would listen to people in Topeka, I'm sure they would hear much the same thing that the people in Hollywood are saying."
Now, do you really believe, in your delusion, that the people in Topeka are anti-Bush, that they are saying the same kind of left-wing drivel..
GREENWALD: Absolutely.
NOVAK: ... that you're getting out of Hollywood?
GREENWALD: Absolutely. Without a doubt.
I've traveled across the country. I've made a documentary about the Iraq war called -- Truth Uncovered is our Web site. And that movie is called "Uncovered." I've gone to cities all over the country. I've talked to people. It's extraordinary. And, by the way, the people that I've talked to, regular citizens. And with me come CIA, Pentagon, foreign service people, the people who make the government work.
These people are upset. They're angry. They've been lied to and they're furious about the war. I've talked to military families who have lost children who are upset about this war. I've never seen anything like it. And I'm sure you read the opinion polls. You've seen what's happened in the last year. We know that the country is increasingly agreeing on more and more issues. You can call it delusional. That's just name-calling, which I would hope you would be higher than that. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Go ahead.
BOZELL: Well, I'm glad...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BOZELL: I'm glad, Robert, that you brought up something called opinion polls. I've seen them too. And the majority of the American people support the president. You're dead wrong in what you're saying.
GREENWALD: No, I'm not dead wrong. I'm -- if you go down...
BOZELL: Your friends -- your friends don't, but the majority of Americans do. And I'm surprised -- do you even know where Topeka is?
(LAUGHTER)
GREENWALD: Well, since you don't know me or you don't know anything, but I would guarantee you that, in this last year, traveling through the country -- and, again, going with people who really make government work, not like people like us who get on these talk shows and carry on and people who get big salaries for harassing people who come on the shows, but really people who are part of the fabric of democracy, they're the ones who are turning on, not the president personally, but on the policies of this president and what he's doing to the values of our country.
BEGALA: In fact, Brent, let me give you a great example.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: One of the biggest stars in Hollywood is Ben Affleck. He spoke at a dinner about six weeks ago that I was honored to host. And I'd go back there and do it and do it in a heartbeat...
BOZELL: I'm sure you would.
BEGALA: ... with a bunch of Hollywood liberals.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I believe that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Here's what Ben Affleck said. It made me proud to be an American. "As the son of schoolteacher, Affleck said, it was not right that the Bush tax cut saved him $1 million at a time 'teachers go with insufficient resources to educate future leaders of our country. I save $1 million,'" he said, "'and the federal budget deficit grows like William Bennett's credit line on a one-armed bandit at Bally's.'"
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Isn't that what democracy is all about?
BOZELL: Let me finish the quote. Let me see. Did he say also at the end, and, therefore, I'm sending $1 million to the U.S. Treasury?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's supporting rich people like Novak paying their fair share.
BOZELL: If he really believed that, he would send that $1 million into the U.S. Treasury. And I'll be happy to give him the address.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: That's silly.
BOZELL: What a hypocrite. What a hypocrite.
(CROSSTALK)
BOZELL: What a hypocrite. He talks like that, but then he doesn't send that money.
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, let me just say that if, I've offended you by calling you delusional, I'm really sorry about that. I guarantee you.
But I think you are delusional, because I...
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I want to give you a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. "Are there any celebrities whose political opinions would make you more likely to favor their views," any celebrities? Yes, 11 percent; no, 87 percent.
Do you know that people in Topeka or New York or Texas or even California, they don't want to hear from you?
GREENWALD: That's not what the poll says.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: They want you to make better movies than you're making.
GREENWALD: That's not the question in the poll. The question in the poll was not whether they want to hear from us. The question in the poll is whether it will change their opinion, No. 1.
No. 2, you know, when you ask people in the poll, the most widely watched shows on television are PBS. So there are certain polls where people give answers that may not -- or may not be accurate. But the reason people we're doing this, the reason people are speaking out is not to change others' opinions. That's what you do in a democracy. You express your opinion.
And I know you welcome all of us who are expressing our opinion and you would have no desire to stop us from doing that, despite the polls.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I think I stipulated that, Mr. Greenwald. I mean, is that your talking point, so you have to go back to that point every time, rather than talk about the fact that nobody wants to hear it?
GREENWALD: Well, because you're trying -- you're trying to use the poll to suggest that a celebrity shouldn't be speaking out, that people don't want to hear from us. And I'm suggesting that that's not the issue at all.
BOZELL: But I do -- I do want to hear from you. I want you all -- you people front and center with your left-wing claptrap, because George Bush is going to win reelection in a heartbeat because of you.
BEGALA: With his right-wing claptrap.
NOVAK: OK, we're going to have to take a break.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Just ahead, Wolf Blitzer will have the latest on some new warnings about possible terrorist attacks in Britain, Kenya and Saudi Arabia.
And next, in "Rapid Fire," we'll ask our guests if the Dixie Chicks are an embarrassment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
NOVAK: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we serve up the questions a mile a minute.
And we're talking about tonight's anti-Bush, hate-Bush bash in Hollywood, where celebrities and activists are getting together to try to figure out a way to help defeat our great president.
In the CROSSFIRE, film producer and director Robert Greenwald and Brent Bozell, president of the famous Media Research Center.
BEGALA: Brent, most of the people in Hollywood are liberal. Most of the people in the tobacco industry are conservative. Which industry does more harm to our kids?
(APPLAUSE)
BOZELL: I think that, if you look at the health, it's obviously smoking. If you look at the culture, it's obviously Hollywood.
NOVAK: The Dixie Chicks, who are country singers, I understand, went to England and said they are ashamed of their president. Is that patriotic?
GREENWALD: The Dixie Chicks' full statement, which I happened to hear, was far more complicated to that. The Dixie Chicks have also contributed $100,000 to register young people to vote. I think the Dixie Chicks are patriots.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Back on this question of damaging the culture, then. If Hollywood is polluting our culture, which Hollywood movie pollutes our culture more, right-wing Arnold Schwarzenegger's movie "Terminator," where he guns down at least 50 cops in cold blood, or liberal Steven Spielberg's movie "Saving Private Ryan"?
BOZELL: I think the president...
(LAUGHTER)
BOZELL: The politics is very different from the culture. Steven Spielberg's movies are fantastic. I love his movies. And it has nothing to do with his politics, which is very left-wing.
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, the organization that's having this rally in Los Angeles tonight is getting $10 million from the billionaire George Soros, who wants to legalize drugs. Is that part of the agenda of Hollywood, legalization of drugs?
GREENWALD: There is no official agenda of Hollywood, as you well know. They are a group of disparate individuals. And tonight's agenda is one thing: How do we organize to get rid of George Bush, a president who is harming our country in profound ways?
BEGALA: Brent Bozell, my side has Tom Hanks, Barbra Streisand, Dixie Chicks. Your side has Bo Derek, Pat Boone, and Chuck Norris. Who has got more talent?
(LAUGHTER)
BOZELL: Well, oh, you mean acting? You guys.
BEGALA: I appreciate your candor.
BOZELL: Well, I'm talking about acting. I'm not talking about anything else. I'm talking about acting.
NOVAK: OK.
There are demands being made to impeach Bush. Can you not wait for the election? Do you have to impeach him, Robert Greenwald?
GREENWALD: I can wait for the election, because I believe we will be successful in having him out of office. I believe in following the election, unlike the state of California, where we did have an impeachment.
Robert Greenwald, big-time movie producer and director, thank you for joining us from Los Angeles. Brent Bozell, here in our Washington studio, thank you, from the Media Research Center.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Thanks, both, guys, for a fun debate.
Well, gentlemen, start your engines. Those words were appropriate ones at the White House this afternoon. When we return, we'll tell you why race cars were parked on the South Lawn today.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: As he gears up for the election year, President Bush is keying in on a coveted voting bloc, auto racing fans.
A short time ago, the president welcomed a group of NASCAR champions to the White House. President Bush has added NASCAR drivers to the list of sports champs who get congratulations from the White House. NASCAR is especially popular in Bush country, the South and Midwest.
BEGALA: The notion that this trust-fund baby, with his inherited wealth, Phillips Andover, Yale, Harvard, oil companies handed to him -- the notion that he's some kind of man of the people is the biggest crock of baloney I've ever seen in my life.
NOVAK: Well, after...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: He ought to be ashamed.
NOVAK: Well, after all that demagoguery, let me give you a couple facts of life. NASCAR's founder, Bill France, was a George Wallace Democrat. I knew Bill very well. And those people have gone over in lockstep to the Republicans.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Thank God. George Wallace was a racist. And I don't want any racists in my party. Let them go to the Republican Party.
NOVAK: Well, that's why you're going to lose the election the next time
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'd rather lose than have a vote from a racist.
From the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Calm down.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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Aired December 2, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The stage is set in Hollywood. Tinseltown celebrities and activists gather tonight for a meeting to plot the demise of the Bush presidency. Will their efforts hurt or help the Democratic Party's bid to regain the Oval Office?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
As the election season approaches, dozens of Hollywood stars and would-be stars are lining up against President Bush. A big fund- raising bash is planned for this evening in Los Angeles.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Of course, the right-wingers, perhaps sensing Mr. Bush's vulnerability, are trying to quash any criticism.
But why is a gathering of artists and actors and singers worse than, say, Mr. Bush gathering a bunch of fat-cat lobbyists from oil companies, insurance giants and pharmaceutical conglomerates?
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: We'll debate that and more after, first, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
As a candidate, George W. Bush made military readiness a central issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AUGUST 3, 2000)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If called on by the commander in chief today, two entire divisions of the Army would have to report, not ready for duty, sir.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BEGALA: But "The Wall Street Journal" reports today that the man who was so upset about just two divisions falling below readiness levels is now allowing three combat divisions, plus an armored cavalry regiment to fall down to the C-4 status, which is the lowest state of readiness.
Why? Well, because Mr. Bush dishonestly led us into a war against a country that posed no threat to America. And then his diplomatic incompetence kept us from having any allies there to share our soldiers' burden.
NOVAK: Paul, if you want to be against this war, against our troops fighting this war, why don't you just come out and join Dennis Kucinich and say, come home? That's what this is all about.
Of course, when you're fighting a war, it's hard to keep all divisions up at a readiness level. But why don't you join Kucinich and say, let's go home and let the terrorists take over?
BEGALA: It's about hypocrisy. Mr. Bush attacked his predecessor because two divisions were below readiness. Now he has three, plus another regiment below readiness. He's a hypocrite.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Because there was no war going on then.
BEGALA: Thank God.
NOVAK: Gavin Newsom, a 36-year-old millionaire restaurant owner, is a liberal who is the Democratic Party's choice for mayor of San Francisco. But being liberal is not enough in San Francisco.
Newsom is losing ground in next Tuesday's runoff election against a real leftist, a 38-year-old Green Party candidate, Matt Gonzalez. The good news for Newsom is that a big-name Democrat came in to campaign for him today. The bad news is that he was Al Gore. Al Gore follows Dick Gephardt, Joe Lieberman and John Kerry, all campaigning against the Greens. Is it any wonder that, with this crowd coming in, the Greenie has been gaining and the Democrat losing?
BEGALA: Yes, you know, I never see you happier than when there's a Green Party candidate out there. And liberals should all notice that guys like Ralph Nader, these Green Party leftists, who mess things up for Democrats, the only people they make happy are Bob Novak and George W. Bush.
NOVAK: Isn't the point that I was trying to make, that, when you bring in Gore, that whole crowd, Kerry, that the guy is fading against the Green candidate?
BEGALA: I don't know. Gore actually won California. Of course, Gore won America, too. That didn't seem to stop President Bush.
NOVAK: That isn't my question.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Gore is a very popular man in California.
NOVAK: That still isn't my question. Why is the guy fading?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It's called post hoc ergo propter hoc.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: It's a logical fallacy, Bob. I'll explain it to you later.
NOVAK: Oh.
BEGALA: Well, one of the most exciting details that the White House told us about the president's trip to Baghdad was when a British Airways pilot supposedly spotted Air Force One and almost spilled the beans by radioing the president's plane and asking if it really was Air Force One.
But, just like so much else we hear from the Bushies, this story doesn't stand up to scrutiny. British Airways says none of its pilots has reported seeing or contacting anyone about Air Force One. Now, the Bushies now say, well, perhaps the call went to a control tower, not Air Force One. But the Brits say, no, none of their pilots saw or said anything about Air Force One.
So how can we tell when we're being misled by the Bush White House? It's easy. Read their lips.
NOVAK: You know, maybe there was a phantom British plane...
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: But so what, is what I say. The interesting thing is, we haven't been together since Thanksgiving, Paul. I hope you had a good Thanksgiving.
BEGALA: Thank you. I did. I hope you did.
NOVAK: But you really hated the president going there and supporting the troops, didn't you?
BEGALA: I loved it. I went on television and said I thought it was wonderful. I hate when he lies to us, which, apparently, he has done again on this story. Just -- he's incapable of telling us the truth about anything, whether it's a silly story about Air Force One or sending troops halfway around the world to fight a war.
NOVAK: Now that you've made...
BEGALA: I don't know the guy just can't tell us the truth.
NOVAK: Now that you've made... (BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... your quotas of bashing the president twice a day, I hope we can put that aside.
BEGALA: I have not yet begun to stand up for my country.
NOVAK: The Reverend Al Sharpton's campaign for president is short on cash, $177,000 in debt and only $24,000 cash on hand. That doesn't bother Reverend Al.
Thanks to "The New York Post," we learned that the rev stays at only the fanciest hotels, Phoenician in Arizona, the Mansion on Turtle Creek in Dallas, the Ritz Carlton in Dearborn, Michigan, and the famous Mandarin Oriental in Miami. One stay at the Four Seasons in Los Angeles cost him over $7,000. Add $1,700 for a single limousine service in Chicago and you got one candidate who knows how to spend moolah. Boy, wouldn't Al Sharpton fit in here in Washington?
BEGALA: Well, what's wrong with the guy -- he happens to be a black minister from Harlem. He wants to stay in a nice hotel. Should that be against the law?
NOVAK: He doesn't have the money.
BEGALA: What's wrong with that?
NOVAK: He doesn't have the money.
BEGALA: Well, maybe he needs to get some fund-raisers. They should organize a Republicans-for-Sharpton fund-raiser.
NOVAK: Where you come -- where you come from, you have -- you stay in the best places, you and Carville. But you have the money. He doesn't have the money. Can you understand there's a difference?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, I'll tell you what. He couldn't run up more than $5 trillion of debt if he was president, which our president has done, Mr. Bush.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: So Sharpton is a fiscal conservative, compared to George W. Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: They hope to send George W. Bush packing. Tonight, some Hollywood stars get together to say how much they detest and hate the president of the United States. Will it drive George W. out of the White House or backfire against the Democrats?
We'll debate that issue when we return. Plus: race cars at the White House. What's the deal with NASCAR drivers paying a visit to President Bush today? That story later on CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
You know, the entertainment industry thrives on free expression. It doesn't hate gays and it doesn't pollute. So it's no wonder it's a pro-Democratic industry. So, tonight, dozens of celebrities and activists will gather in Los Angeles to plot strategies to try to defeat President Bush. This has right-wingers in a tizzy. They seem to believe that only tobacco, chemical and oil lobbyists ought to be politically active.
In the CROSSFIRE to talk about this and this big Hollywood get- together tonight, Brent Bozell. He is the president of the Media Research Center; and, in Los Angeles, film producer and director Robert Greenwald.
Thank you both, guys.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, let me quote you a couple of big names from your business. Tom Cruise: "I think the U.S. is terrifying and it saddens me. You only have to look at the state of affairs in America."
And then Johnny Depp: "America is dumb. It's like a dumb puppy that has big teeth that can bite and hurt you, aggressive."
Now, can we count on you and your ilk tonight in Los Angeles putting out some more of this hate-America stuff?
ROBERT GREENWALD, PRODUCER/DIRECTOR: Well, the last time I looked, I thought it was patriotic to express your opinions and to get together and organize to get people to vote and to get people to take out of office the most divisive president in the history of our country.
The entertainment business never agrees. We can barely agree on what to order for lunch. But thanks to Mr. Bush, we've got widespread agreement among Republicans, Democrats and independents that this man is betraying the values of our country.
NOVAK: Well, to get back to my question, do you believe that the real Americans, the ordinary Americans around the country, like a lot of millionaires in Hollywood saying how bad their country is? Do you think they really enjoy that?
GREENWALD: I think that everyone has a right to express themselves, just like you do, just like the pundits on these shows, many of whom get paid millions of dollars, just like entertainers, just like teachers and educators do.
And what I love about our democracy and what I fight to keep going in our democracy is that all of us have the right to express ourselves.
BEGALA: Well, case in point -- first, Brent, good to see you again. Thank you for coming back on the program.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: There are actually plenty of Republicans and conservatives in Hollywood. No doubt, the entertainment industry is a liberal industry in the main.
But take a look. Arnold Schwarzenegger, he's the new governor of California. Fred Thompson, the former senator, now an actor. Fred Grandy, congressman was an actor, a Republican. Chuck Norris, Bruce Willis, Charlton Heston, Pat Boone, Bo Derek, Kelsey Grammer. Isn't the problem that you have not with celebrities voicing their political views, but you want to try to force them to adopt your anti-gay, right-wing, pro-deficit views, right?
(LAUGHTER)
BRENT BOZELL, PRESIDENT, MEDIA RESEARCH CENTER: I'm laughing at you, Paul.
(LAUGHTER)
BOZELL: First of all, do you -- do you see me in a tizzy?
BEGALA: Yes. Yes, your panties are in a wad. You're all upset.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: "Oh, oh. Save me from the liberals."
(CROSSTALK)
BOZELL: Look, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something, my friend. There's nothing that the Bush administration should want more than this group of lunatic-fringe leftists out there campaigning against him, because he'll win in a landslide, when you have these people against him.
If this had been 1992, where I believe the Hollywood left was far more reasonable in their rhetoric, when they were helping you guys, I would say they're going to be a force. But let me tell you, it's going to backfire. Mark my words. We'll come back here in about 18 months and I'm going to be laughing at you again, because this one's going to backfire.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, so, help me understand why anybody in Hollywood would be a conservative. There's plenty out there. Help me understand. I understand there's a panoply of them.
BOZELL: You just named the entire -- you just named the entirety of the conservative movement in Hollywood.
BEGALA: That may well be, that maybe that there's only eight or 10, the folks that I named.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'm surprised there's even that many. Again, this is an administration that's...
BOZELL: I'm surprised they survived.
BEGALA: .. virulently anti-guy. It's pro-deficit. It's hurt jobs.
BOZELL: It's pro deficit?
BEGALA: It's hurt exports.
Yes, $5 trillion of debt and counting, Brent.
BOZELL: It's pro deficit?
BEGALA: Why would any Hollywood person be a conservative?
BOZELL: But it's this kind of rhetoric that puts you on the fringe.
Now, I listened to you before the break. And all you could say was, George Bush, dishonest, dishonest.
BEGALA: He is dishonest. He lied.
BOZELL: You, the man who worked for Bill Clinton.
BEGALA: Who lied about a girlfriend, not a war. There's a hell of difference, Brent.
NOVAK: Mr. Greenwald...
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, you want to say something here?
GREENWALD: Yes.
I think that the point is that you focus on the Hollywood citizens. You focus on the profile of some. But it's a very diverse community with all kinds of people and all kinds of views. But what's extraordinary is the variety of people who finally can agree on something. I've never seen as many people agree.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Mr. -- Robert Greenwald, let me stipulate that we all have a right to express our opinions. You've made that speech twice.
GREENWALD: Good. Well, I appreciate that.
NOVAK: You don't have to convince me. I make my living exercising the First Amendment. And so does Brent. We all do.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: But I want to -- so let's just stick to what I'm talking about and not make that little Fourth of July speech.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: James Cromwell, who is an actor, he said on this network a while ago, he said: "We are no different than any other people throughout the country. If they would listen to people in Topeka, I'm sure they would hear much the same thing that the people in Hollywood are saying."
Now, do you really believe, in your delusion, that the people in Topeka are anti-Bush, that they are saying the same kind of left-wing drivel..
GREENWALD: Absolutely.
NOVAK: ... that you're getting out of Hollywood?
GREENWALD: Absolutely. Without a doubt.
I've traveled across the country. I've made a documentary about the Iraq war called -- Truth Uncovered is our Web site. And that movie is called "Uncovered." I've gone to cities all over the country. I've talked to people. It's extraordinary. And, by the way, the people that I've talked to, regular citizens. And with me come CIA, Pentagon, foreign service people, the people who make the government work.
These people are upset. They're angry. They've been lied to and they're furious about the war. I've talked to military families who have lost children who are upset about this war. I've never seen anything like it. And I'm sure you read the opinion polls. You've seen what's happened in the last year. We know that the country is increasingly agreeing on more and more issues. You can call it delusional. That's just name-calling, which I would hope you would be higher than that. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Go ahead.
BOZELL: Well, I'm glad...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BOZELL: I'm glad, Robert, that you brought up something called opinion polls. I've seen them too. And the majority of the American people support the president. You're dead wrong in what you're saying.
GREENWALD: No, I'm not dead wrong. I'm -- if you go down...
BOZELL: Your friends -- your friends don't, but the majority of Americans do. And I'm surprised -- do you even know where Topeka is?
(LAUGHTER)
GREENWALD: Well, since you don't know me or you don't know anything, but I would guarantee you that, in this last year, traveling through the country -- and, again, going with people who really make government work, not like people like us who get on these talk shows and carry on and people who get big salaries for harassing people who come on the shows, but really people who are part of the fabric of democracy, they're the ones who are turning on, not the president personally, but on the policies of this president and what he's doing to the values of our country.
BEGALA: In fact, Brent, let me give you a great example.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: One of the biggest stars in Hollywood is Ben Affleck. He spoke at a dinner about six weeks ago that I was honored to host. And I'd go back there and do it and do it in a heartbeat...
BOZELL: I'm sure you would.
BEGALA: ... with a bunch of Hollywood liberals.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I believe that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Here's what Ben Affleck said. It made me proud to be an American. "As the son of schoolteacher, Affleck said, it was not right that the Bush tax cut saved him $1 million at a time 'teachers go with insufficient resources to educate future leaders of our country. I save $1 million,'" he said, "'and the federal budget deficit grows like William Bennett's credit line on a one-armed bandit at Bally's.'"
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Isn't that what democracy is all about?
BOZELL: Let me finish the quote. Let me see. Did he say also at the end, and, therefore, I'm sending $1 million to the U.S. Treasury?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's supporting rich people like Novak paying their fair share.
BOZELL: If he really believed that, he would send that $1 million into the U.S. Treasury. And I'll be happy to give him the address.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: That's silly.
BOZELL: What a hypocrite. What a hypocrite.
(CROSSTALK)
BOZELL: What a hypocrite. He talks like that, but then he doesn't send that money.
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, let me just say that if, I've offended you by calling you delusional, I'm really sorry about that. I guarantee you.
But I think you are delusional, because I...
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I want to give you a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. "Are there any celebrities whose political opinions would make you more likely to favor their views," any celebrities? Yes, 11 percent; no, 87 percent.
Do you know that people in Topeka or New York or Texas or even California, they don't want to hear from you?
GREENWALD: That's not what the poll says.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: They want you to make better movies than you're making.
GREENWALD: That's not the question in the poll. The question in the poll was not whether they want to hear from us. The question in the poll is whether it will change their opinion, No. 1.
No. 2, you know, when you ask people in the poll, the most widely watched shows on television are PBS. So there are certain polls where people give answers that may not -- or may not be accurate. But the reason people we're doing this, the reason people are speaking out is not to change others' opinions. That's what you do in a democracy. You express your opinion.
And I know you welcome all of us who are expressing our opinion and you would have no desire to stop us from doing that, despite the polls.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I think I stipulated that, Mr. Greenwald. I mean, is that your talking point, so you have to go back to that point every time, rather than talk about the fact that nobody wants to hear it?
GREENWALD: Well, because you're trying -- you're trying to use the poll to suggest that a celebrity shouldn't be speaking out, that people don't want to hear from us. And I'm suggesting that that's not the issue at all.
BOZELL: But I do -- I do want to hear from you. I want you all -- you people front and center with your left-wing claptrap, because George Bush is going to win reelection in a heartbeat because of you.
BEGALA: With his right-wing claptrap.
NOVAK: OK, we're going to have to take a break.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Just ahead, Wolf Blitzer will have the latest on some new warnings about possible terrorist attacks in Britain, Kenya and Saudi Arabia.
And next, in "Rapid Fire," we'll ask our guests if the Dixie Chicks are an embarrassment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWS BREAK)
NOVAK: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we serve up the questions a mile a minute.
And we're talking about tonight's anti-Bush, hate-Bush bash in Hollywood, where celebrities and activists are getting together to try to figure out a way to help defeat our great president.
In the CROSSFIRE, film producer and director Robert Greenwald and Brent Bozell, president of the famous Media Research Center.
BEGALA: Brent, most of the people in Hollywood are liberal. Most of the people in the tobacco industry are conservative. Which industry does more harm to our kids?
(APPLAUSE)
BOZELL: I think that, if you look at the health, it's obviously smoking. If you look at the culture, it's obviously Hollywood.
NOVAK: The Dixie Chicks, who are country singers, I understand, went to England and said they are ashamed of their president. Is that patriotic?
GREENWALD: The Dixie Chicks' full statement, which I happened to hear, was far more complicated to that. The Dixie Chicks have also contributed $100,000 to register young people to vote. I think the Dixie Chicks are patriots.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Back on this question of damaging the culture, then. If Hollywood is polluting our culture, which Hollywood movie pollutes our culture more, right-wing Arnold Schwarzenegger's movie "Terminator," where he guns down at least 50 cops in cold blood, or liberal Steven Spielberg's movie "Saving Private Ryan"?
BOZELL: I think the president...
(LAUGHTER)
BOZELL: The politics is very different from the culture. Steven Spielberg's movies are fantastic. I love his movies. And it has nothing to do with his politics, which is very left-wing.
NOVAK: Robert Greenwald, the organization that's having this rally in Los Angeles tonight is getting $10 million from the billionaire George Soros, who wants to legalize drugs. Is that part of the agenda of Hollywood, legalization of drugs?
GREENWALD: There is no official agenda of Hollywood, as you well know. They are a group of disparate individuals. And tonight's agenda is one thing: How do we organize to get rid of George Bush, a president who is harming our country in profound ways?
BEGALA: Brent Bozell, my side has Tom Hanks, Barbra Streisand, Dixie Chicks. Your side has Bo Derek, Pat Boone, and Chuck Norris. Who has got more talent?
(LAUGHTER)
BOZELL: Well, oh, you mean acting? You guys.
BEGALA: I appreciate your candor.
BOZELL: Well, I'm talking about acting. I'm not talking about anything else. I'm talking about acting.
NOVAK: OK.
There are demands being made to impeach Bush. Can you not wait for the election? Do you have to impeach him, Robert Greenwald?
GREENWALD: I can wait for the election, because I believe we will be successful in having him out of office. I believe in following the election, unlike the state of California, where we did have an impeachment.
Robert Greenwald, big-time movie producer and director, thank you for joining us from Los Angeles. Brent Bozell, here in our Washington studio, thank you, from the Media Research Center.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Thanks, both, guys, for a fun debate.
Well, gentlemen, start your engines. Those words were appropriate ones at the White House this afternoon. When we return, we'll tell you why race cars were parked on the South Lawn today.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: As he gears up for the election year, President Bush is keying in on a coveted voting bloc, auto racing fans.
A short time ago, the president welcomed a group of NASCAR champions to the White House. President Bush has added NASCAR drivers to the list of sports champs who get congratulations from the White House. NASCAR is especially popular in Bush country, the South and Midwest.
BEGALA: The notion that this trust-fund baby, with his inherited wealth, Phillips Andover, Yale, Harvard, oil companies handed to him -- the notion that he's some kind of man of the people is the biggest crock of baloney I've ever seen in my life.
NOVAK: Well, after...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: He ought to be ashamed.
NOVAK: Well, after all that demagoguery, let me give you a couple facts of life. NASCAR's founder, Bill France, was a George Wallace Democrat. I knew Bill very well. And those people have gone over in lockstep to the Republicans.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Thank God. George Wallace was a racist. And I don't want any racists in my party. Let them go to the Republican Party.
NOVAK: Well, that's why you're going to lose the election the next time
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I'd rather lose than have a vote from a racist.
From the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Calm down.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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