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CNN Crossfire
Year's Top Stories
Aired December 31, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER (voice-over): CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson. In the CROSSFIRE, one dictator gone. The doctor arrives. A governor gets terminated. And taxes get cut.
We're looking back on the year's top stories and our biggest surprise, today on CROSSFIRE, from the George Washington University. Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to the last CROSSFIRE of 2003. it's time to look back on the year that was and do a little gloating. Of course, considering the kind of year the Democrats have had, you're bound to hear a little whining too.
A couple of members of Congress are here to help. Al Wynn, Democrat of Maryland, along with Tom Davis, Republican of Virginia.
We've got four top stories we're counting down, starting with No. 4, a case of democracy in action. California's total recall.
I'm going to put up on the screen, Congressman Wynn, the certified California election results. Republican Schwarzenegger 48.6 percent, Democrat Bustamante 31.5 percent, Republican McClintock 13.5 percent. Now if you do some very quick arithmetic, that's 61 percent Democratic. What happened in the Golden State?
REP. AL WYNN (D), MARYLAND: How did you do that math?
NOVAK: I'm sorry -- 61 percent Republican, 61 percent Republican. What happened to the Golden State?
WYNN: Well, first of all, it's a bad idea, when you start doing government by recall or by redistricting, if you take Texas into account.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or Maryland.
(LAUGHTER)
WYNN: Touche. One for Connie (ph).
Anyway, I think the Democrats ran into a pretty tough situation, but as I said, it's a mistake when you start having government by recall, and you have people saying, well, the guy's only been in one year, let's toss him out and get somebody else in there.
It sounds good, but I don't think it's the way you ought to govern.
But the important thing is, I think the Democrats may have shot themselves in the foot. We probably should have picked one guy, gotten behind him and gone all the way with that candidate. I think we would have won easily, quite frankly, if we'd done that early on.
I think also, tactically, some of the things about Schwarzenegger's personal life probably came out too late to make much of a difference. And so that was not one we won.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Congressman Davis, it's good to see you. Thank you for coming back. And Congressman Wynn.
Frank Luntz was of course Newt Gingrich's pollster. You're familiar with him. Big Republican pollster. He took a look at California and this is what he told "The St. Louis Post Dispatch."
"The Republican establishment and the White House opposed the recall effort, yet they couldn't stop it. It was driven by grassroots frustration with politics and politicians. If the California legislature was up now for recall, they'd all be recalled. Mother Nature would be recalled. Mother Teresa would be recalled."
Was this simply a California brushfire of anti-incumbency? Or do you think there's some larger message that somehow Republicans are ascendant, even in the very liberal state of California?
REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: Well, it was an anti-incumbent and to some extent anti-Democrat in California.
The interesting thing is, the turnout in that special election was higher than the general election turnout just a year before. This was his 5th year in office. Everything was going bad, and it shows, you know, you give the people a choice, sometimes they will make it.
But for Republicans, we had all but written off California. I think it shows that it's once again in play and independence still holds some sway.
NOVAK: Al Wynn, he said he was going to repeal the car tax, just like they did in Virginia. People hate taxes. Are Democrats ever going to get that through their head? Schwarzenegger did repeal the car tax.
WYNN: But now he has to govern, and that's the problem. What's he going to do?
He also said he wasn't going to borrow, but I see the first thing out of his mouth is more borrowing, more deficit. So it is not an easy situation, but I'm not sure Schwarzenegger's got all the answers. Not as easy as it is in the movies.
BEGALA: OK. Let's move up. That was issue 4, to issue No. 3. It is, in the words of a notable author, still the economy, stupid. Not that you guys are stupid. On the economy, here's where we stand at year's end: 3 million people who had jobs when George W. Bush became president have lost their jobs since he became our president. If you take into account all of the people who have quit even looking -- the "L.A. Times" reported this week 9.7 percent unemployment. Consumer confidence fell again this week. And existing home sales dropped 4.6 percent.
The only good news is that rich people are making money in the stock market. That's a Republican's dream economy, isn't it? Working people get the shaft and the rich people get the goldmine.
DAVIS: Actually, you know, the last four months, 300,000 additional drops were created. This recession started before George Bush took office. It started before him, but he's going to end it.
And we can see now the unemployment numbers starting to go down. We had our largest productivity rise in the last quarter. 8 percent. We are projected to continue to see this economy on the move. The stock markets are now setting highs for the last several years, and we feel very, very good about the economy.
And if you look at the Democrats right now, this is a group that said the tax cuts were going to hurt and everything else. It's clear they have worked, and George W. Bush's program is working, and it's right on schedule for the election.
NOVAK: Congressman Al Wynn, aren't you in a box, the Democrat Party, right now? What's good for America is bad for the Democratic Party. Isn't that -- you want bad news. We want misery! We want unemployment!
WYNN: We want to run against this economy. Let me tell you. This economy is bad for the American people and they're not going to be fooled by the snow shift of profits for big corporations.
The fact of the matter is, 9 million people are unemployed, 3 million jobs lost, $500 billion deficit. There's nothing good about this economy.
These 300,000 jobs he's talking about, basically low-paying jobs, many of them seasonal jobs. Where are the real jobs? $1.7 trillion in tax cuts and we only get 300,000 jobs? Where are the manufacturing jobs?
I'd be delighted to run against the Republicans on this economy.
NOVAK: Don't you ever read...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: In fact, if you -- let me say something good about President Bush. He very wisely asked former Secretary of State James Baker to help with the issue of Iraqi debt, because the Iraqi debt is crushing. It's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in that country.
The Bush debt alone, just Bush's share of our debt, is $33,000 for every man, woman and child in America. Whose going to help us with the Bush debt while he's helping Iraqis with their debt?
DAVIS: You know, the problem is, 9-11 came in, we've had to gear up for war and recession at the same time. So when that happens, the country has always gone into some debt. We have a plan to get back -- the resolution we passed -- get back onto balance, you know, over the next decade, and as a percentage EDP, the debt is smaller than it was in the early years of the Clinton administration.
WYNN: When Clinton left, we had a surplus. What happened to the surplus? We had a $400 billion surplus. We now have a $500 billion deficit. That's a $900 billion turnaround once the Republicans took control.
DAVIS: 70 percent of that is because we're in recession and the war and the war on terrorism. That has driven 70 percent of that. And I would remind you that the...
(CROSSTALK)
WYNN: The war on terrorism is actually a relatively modest portion of that amount, 40 percent.
DAVIS: I'm including the Iraq War as part of that.
WYNN: Oh, you mean the war that he misled us into?
DAVIS: The fact of the matter is, we never would have had a balanced budget under President Clinton if the Republican Congress hadn't come in in 1995. I think everybody understands that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Hang on just a second. We'll have issue No. 2 coming up next on our list as we count down CROSSFIRE's top stories of 2003. And then later, how one very famous United States senator stole the show. CROSSFIRE's most memorable moment of 2003.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: Welcome back.
When the year started, hardly anyone could name the outgoing governor of Vermont. A lot of Democrats still don't know much about him, but Howard Dean may be their party's presidential nominee.
We're counting down 2003's top stories with Congressman Al Wynn, Democrat of Maryland, and Congressman Tom Davis, Republican of Virginia.
Congressman Wynn, is the Democratic Party going to go with this fellow who seems to make every mistake in the world? He says that Saddam Hussein's capture doesn't make any difference. He doesn't even know if Osama bin Laden is guilty. He's talking about conspiracy theories. Are you about to drive off the cliff with this guy? WYNN: No. First of all, I think the press is actually making too much of this and trying to end the primaries before they've begun. I think we're a long way off from determining who is going to be the nominee.
Clearly Governor Dean is in the driver's seat right now. I'm endorsing John Edwards. I think he's an outstanding candidate. When we get down to South Carolina and Oklahoma and some other states in the south, I think you're going to see a very different race.
NOVAK: But how did Dean get in this position? He is the frontrunner.
WYNN: He is the frontrunner. He's done some innovative things over the Internet, and he's appealed to the anger within the Democratic Party, and he's energized some of the activists in the party, and I think that's good, as far as it goes.
But we've got to talk about more than anger. We've got to talk about a vision. We've got to talk about this economy. And I think we have a lot to say. It may be Dean or it may be someone else. I think John Edwards has great vision about putting kids in college, about helping people own their own homes, about creating jobs, and that's what this election is going to turn on. It's the economy.
BEGALA: Well, Congressman Davis, in addition to being a congressman representing Virginia, you chaired your party's congressional campaign committee.
In that, one of the thankless tasks in either party, you raised a bunch of money -- by the way, you did it without the slightest hint of any ethical scandal, so congratulations. Don't you then admire Howard Dean for raising all of this money and raising it in such a clean fashion, through the Internet, small donations from millions of ordinary Americans? Even a Republican has to admire that, right?
DAVIS: Absolutely. I mean, he is remaking campaign strategies. He's been very successful, as Al noted, in terms of raising money through the Internet, getting small donors, going after the anger base and the cultural left in the Democratic Party, which, by the way, is where the money is in that party.
But in every general election match up at this point he looks vulnerable, particularly in New Hampshire, where he's running way ahead of the Democratic pack, but way behind President Bush one-on- one, and they've already spent millions of dollars worth of ads against Bush.
It does not portend well for the Democrats next November, I think, if Dean is nominated.
BEGALA: But do you think my friends in the Bush White House, and they are my friends, friends of mine from Texas days, are making a mistake in publicly saying, "We want Howard Dean, bring him on," as it were, as has been said about attacks on our troops. Isn't that a mistake? Shouldn't they have more respect for a guy who's come out of nowhere to become the frontrunner in his party in such an impressive way?
DAVIS: Well, these races can bounce funny ways. The referendum will fundamentally be a referendum on Bush. The election will be a referendum on Bush and the Republican Congress, and it's ours to win or lose and who the Democratic nominee will be a few points one way or the other.
But it's ours to win or lose at this point. Things are looking good for us at this point. Dean looks more vulnerable than the others because...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I'm going to try again, Al, to see what your opinion is, congressman, on whether this guy is really a real risk for the Democratic Party, Howard Dean.
He was asked by a paper in Iowa, as part of a survey, to name the closest living relative in the military. He named a brother who has been dead for 29 years and never been in the military and is not alive. Why would he do something like that?
WYNN: He made a mistake. The election is not going to turn on whether he has a brother, living or dead, in the military. The message is not going to turn on his personal quips.
This election is going to turn on the economy, the economy.
NOVAK: It doesn't matter what kind of guy he is, then.
WYNN: He's fine. He's fine. He's experienced as a governor. He's a doctor. He can talk about health care.
Look, the Republicans have done nothing about the rising cause of health insurance in this country. 43 million Americans still don't have health insurance. Bush is going to have to answer to that. They've got the House, they've got the Senate, they've got the White House. Why do we still have the health insurance problem? We've got other problems.
They give us a really weak drug program, discount drug program. They're going to have to answer for that. We've got huge casualties coming back from Iraq. They're going to have to answer for that.
So I think the issue is going to be how the Democrats talk about the economy, how we can create jobs compared to the 3 million that the Republicans lost and talk about a vision for how we can make Americans have a better way of life.
I think the Democrats will do that, with Dean or with someone else, and I think we'll be very successful. I think the Republicans have got a hard way to go.
BEGALA: Congressman Albert Wynn, of Maryland, Congressman Tom Davis, keep your seats. We've got the big issue up ahead, the No. 1 story that we talked about more than anything else this year, on CROSSFIRE. A top debate of the year. Just ahead.
And then later, how an autobiography triggered CROSSFIRE's most memorable moment of the year.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
From a State of the Union Address that contained false statements to hot-dogging onto an aircraft carrier under a banner reading "Mission Accomplished" then refusing to attend a single funeral for our war dead to pretending to serve a turkey centerpiece to a pre- screened audience while other troops were turned away and ate MRE's in the sand, George W. Bush made the politics of Iraq our No. 1 story this year.
In the CROSSFIRE to discuss it, Virginia Republican Congressman Tom Davis and Maryland Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn.
Congressman Davis, let's go through it. Earlier, Congressman Wynn said we were misled into the war. You didn't have a chance to respond. Let me go through them. We were told that we would be welcomed as liberators. Certainly not true. We were told that Saddam sought nuclear material in Africa. The president says that wasn't true. That it would cost only $1.7 billion; we're at $160 billion and counting. And that there were close links to al Qaeda, which the CIA says is not true. We were misled into this war, weren't we?
DAVIS: No, I don't think so. Look, we had had long-standing problems with Iraq going back to the Clinton administration, where they had violated agreement after agreement after agreement. It's the most brutal regime since Hitler.
We formed a coalition of the willing, the United Nations unable to act because of vetoes from Russia and France and Germany. A very gutsy move for the president.
Saddam Hussein is now captured, Iraq is free, and it's still a difficult situation over there, but the people by and large -- I've been over there. Very supportive of what we are doing. But it's tough, but I think we are doing the right thing. We are on the right path at this point.
NOVAK: Congressman Al Wynn, Paul's long spree about things that are going bad, with fake turkeys and landing on aircraft carriers, he didn't mention that this was a great military victory by our men and women in the service.
Do you think -- you're an experienced Democratic politician. Do you think it's good to go into this campaign with the same line that Paul has, talking about fake turkeys, when the Republicans are going to say, gee, look at the job that our men and women did in Iraq?
WYNN: Actually, I think that the president has got real problems here, and I think Paul is only the tip of the iceberg. I mean, we're about to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat -- I mean defeat out of the jaws of victory.
We won the war, but we're losing the peace. You wrote an interesting story just the other day, saying that the contracts that were supposed to rebuild the infrastructure aren't going forward, even though Congress passed the money. That's not happening. The constitution that was supposed to be drafted before we turned over sovereignty is not going to happen. The privatization that the Bush administration talked about, the great privatization and democratization of the Middle East, that's not happening. They've backed off privatization.
So the big things they said they were going to accomplish haven't been accomplished and you still have the continuing casualties. What you have is U.S. arrogance led by the secretary of defense and the administration and Paul Wolfowitz and the rest of the gang has basically led us in the wrong direction. The American people see it. Democrats are going to be happy to campaign on this.
The Republicans and the president have real problems. They did the right thing for the wrong reasons, but now they are totally mismanaging the situation and I think they've got real problems.
BEGALA: Congressman Davis, one of the reasons many of us, including myself, opposed this war was the concern that it would distract us from the real war, from the real enemy, that is al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.
As we gather on New Year's Eve, al Qaeda threatens us again. They're reconstituting in Afghanistan and around the world. The president pulled intelligence assets away from al Qaeda to focus on Saddam Hussein and now al Qaeda threatens us again. Was it worth it? Did it help make us safer?
DAVIS: I think so. First of all, you have a lot of the jihad al Qaeda groups going over those porous borders in Syria and Iran into Iraq. It seems in the Middle East that's where the focus is.
We've had no major episodes in the United States since 9-11. We've dismantled literally dozens of terrorist cells, closed down their bank accounts. It's a very difficult organization to dismantle, but we're making tremendous headway in these areas and I think we ought to be proud of what our president is doing.
And, Al, I hope you run against the president on Iraq. I think the public is supportive of what we're doing there. The war is going well. The conventional war went faster and better than any of you predicted and, you know, we're going to...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let me ask you one thing, congressman. Right now we have Saddam Hussein, who I think you'll agree with me is one of the bloodies tyrants in the modern era, in captivity. If you and your kind of people, Mr. Dean, Mr. Edwards, were in charge, he'd still be running the show in Baghdad. Would that be better -- would the world be better off with him in Baghdad?
WYNN: Let me clarify. If Mr. Edwards was running the show, or if Mr. Wynn were running the show, he'd be captured, just as he is right now.
NOVAK: How would you do that? You wouldn't have had the war.
WYNN: No. I actually voted for the war. I was misled into the war, but I did vote for it.
NOVAK: But you're saying it was a mistake.
WYNN: Yes, it was a mistake.
NOVAK: I can't figure that out.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Saddam Hussein would be in power if there were no war? I think that's true. 478 Americans would be alive today who died in that war, too. Isn't that also true?
NOVAK: As much fun as this is, time is up.
Congressman Al Wynn, thank you. Congressman Tom Davis, thank you.
Next, CROSSFIRE's top highlight of the year is proof that you should never make a promise you can't stomach keeping.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to this New Year's Eve edition of CROSSFIRE.
Well, 2003 for us will always be remembered as the year our pal Tucker Carlson rashly promised to eat his shoe if Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton sold a million copies of her terrific autobiography, "Living History."
Well, as we all know, Hillary did that, and more, so back on July 9 the good senator graciously made it easy for Tucker to keep his promise. Here it is again, just as it happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEGALA: Tucker, you're going to have to eat some shoe leather, buddy.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: You know, Paul, it wouldn't be the first time I've had to eat my words. Oh, my gosh!
BEGALA: Ladies and gentlemen, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Tucker.
CARLSON: Thank you very much.
CLINTON: You're very welcome.
BEGALA: We've got some accoutrements here.
Mrs. Clinton, thank you.
CLINTON: Well, I really want you to notice, Tucker, that this is a wingtip. It's a right wingtip. And I was a little worried about how you were actually going to be able to eat and digest a shoe. I didn't even know what kind you were going to choose.
CARLSON: Thank you.
CLINTON: So I had a friend of mine, Paulette (ph), who is here somewhere, from New York, do this for you, because I figured you had enough embarrassment and humiliation over this episode.
CARLSON: Yes, I have. Thank you.
CLINTON: That the least I could do was to, you know, give you something a little...
CARLSON: Well, you are awfully gracious. I appreciate that, senator. Thank you very much.
BEGALA: Would you like to do the honors, here, senator?
CLINTON: Well, it's really -- don't you think it's Tuckers...
BEGALA: Tucker, which piece of the shoe are you going to start with?
CLINTON: Well, obviously, the heel. Here you go.
CARLSON: Thank you. I shall and hope you will join me in some.
CLINTON: Now I have nothing to do to help you with the tie you also promised to eat. So I'll wait and watch how you handle that.
CARLSON: Thank you. I'm going to get a marzipan tie. I think they make them.
And congratulations on your book selling a million copies.
CLINTON: Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NOVAK: Paul, you notice that she didn't sit down. And she didn't answer any questions. You know, I would like her to come here and sit with you and me and I have a lot of very good questions for her, about all the mistakes they made, about White Water and other things like that.
BEGALA: You know what she showed? She showed something that you don't see very often on the right. She showed class, she showed grace, she showed humor. She showed all of the things that I wish some of my friends on the right would adopt.
Thank you, Hillary, for giving us the moment of the year and the book of the year.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it from CROSSFIRE. Happy New Year.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Happy New Year. And join us again next year for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
WOLF BLITZER REPORTS is next.
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Aired December 31, 2003 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER (voice-over): CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala. On the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson. In the CROSSFIRE, one dictator gone. The doctor arrives. A governor gets terminated. And taxes get cut.
We're looking back on the year's top stories and our biggest surprise, today on CROSSFIRE, from the George Washington University. Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to the last CROSSFIRE of 2003. it's time to look back on the year that was and do a little gloating. Of course, considering the kind of year the Democrats have had, you're bound to hear a little whining too.
A couple of members of Congress are here to help. Al Wynn, Democrat of Maryland, along with Tom Davis, Republican of Virginia.
We've got four top stories we're counting down, starting with No. 4, a case of democracy in action. California's total recall.
I'm going to put up on the screen, Congressman Wynn, the certified California election results. Republican Schwarzenegger 48.6 percent, Democrat Bustamante 31.5 percent, Republican McClintock 13.5 percent. Now if you do some very quick arithmetic, that's 61 percent Democratic. What happened in the Golden State?
REP. AL WYNN (D), MARYLAND: How did you do that math?
NOVAK: I'm sorry -- 61 percent Republican, 61 percent Republican. What happened to the Golden State?
WYNN: Well, first of all, it's a bad idea, when you start doing government by recall or by redistricting, if you take Texas into account.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or Maryland.
(LAUGHTER)
WYNN: Touche. One for Connie (ph).
Anyway, I think the Democrats ran into a pretty tough situation, but as I said, it's a mistake when you start having government by recall, and you have people saying, well, the guy's only been in one year, let's toss him out and get somebody else in there.
It sounds good, but I don't think it's the way you ought to govern.
But the important thing is, I think the Democrats may have shot themselves in the foot. We probably should have picked one guy, gotten behind him and gone all the way with that candidate. I think we would have won easily, quite frankly, if we'd done that early on.
I think also, tactically, some of the things about Schwarzenegger's personal life probably came out too late to make much of a difference. And so that was not one we won.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Congressman Davis, it's good to see you. Thank you for coming back. And Congressman Wynn.
Frank Luntz was of course Newt Gingrich's pollster. You're familiar with him. Big Republican pollster. He took a look at California and this is what he told "The St. Louis Post Dispatch."
"The Republican establishment and the White House opposed the recall effort, yet they couldn't stop it. It was driven by grassroots frustration with politics and politicians. If the California legislature was up now for recall, they'd all be recalled. Mother Nature would be recalled. Mother Teresa would be recalled."
Was this simply a California brushfire of anti-incumbency? Or do you think there's some larger message that somehow Republicans are ascendant, even in the very liberal state of California?
REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: Well, it was an anti-incumbent and to some extent anti-Democrat in California.
The interesting thing is, the turnout in that special election was higher than the general election turnout just a year before. This was his 5th year in office. Everything was going bad, and it shows, you know, you give the people a choice, sometimes they will make it.
But for Republicans, we had all but written off California. I think it shows that it's once again in play and independence still holds some sway.
NOVAK: Al Wynn, he said he was going to repeal the car tax, just like they did in Virginia. People hate taxes. Are Democrats ever going to get that through their head? Schwarzenegger did repeal the car tax.
WYNN: But now he has to govern, and that's the problem. What's he going to do?
He also said he wasn't going to borrow, but I see the first thing out of his mouth is more borrowing, more deficit. So it is not an easy situation, but I'm not sure Schwarzenegger's got all the answers. Not as easy as it is in the movies.
BEGALA: OK. Let's move up. That was issue 4, to issue No. 3. It is, in the words of a notable author, still the economy, stupid. Not that you guys are stupid. On the economy, here's where we stand at year's end: 3 million people who had jobs when George W. Bush became president have lost their jobs since he became our president. If you take into account all of the people who have quit even looking -- the "L.A. Times" reported this week 9.7 percent unemployment. Consumer confidence fell again this week. And existing home sales dropped 4.6 percent.
The only good news is that rich people are making money in the stock market. That's a Republican's dream economy, isn't it? Working people get the shaft and the rich people get the goldmine.
DAVIS: Actually, you know, the last four months, 300,000 additional drops were created. This recession started before George Bush took office. It started before him, but he's going to end it.
And we can see now the unemployment numbers starting to go down. We had our largest productivity rise in the last quarter. 8 percent. We are projected to continue to see this economy on the move. The stock markets are now setting highs for the last several years, and we feel very, very good about the economy.
And if you look at the Democrats right now, this is a group that said the tax cuts were going to hurt and everything else. It's clear they have worked, and George W. Bush's program is working, and it's right on schedule for the election.
NOVAK: Congressman Al Wynn, aren't you in a box, the Democrat Party, right now? What's good for America is bad for the Democratic Party. Isn't that -- you want bad news. We want misery! We want unemployment!
WYNN: We want to run against this economy. Let me tell you. This economy is bad for the American people and they're not going to be fooled by the snow shift of profits for big corporations.
The fact of the matter is, 9 million people are unemployed, 3 million jobs lost, $500 billion deficit. There's nothing good about this economy.
These 300,000 jobs he's talking about, basically low-paying jobs, many of them seasonal jobs. Where are the real jobs? $1.7 trillion in tax cuts and we only get 300,000 jobs? Where are the manufacturing jobs?
I'd be delighted to run against the Republicans on this economy.
NOVAK: Don't you ever read...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: In fact, if you -- let me say something good about President Bush. He very wisely asked former Secretary of State James Baker to help with the issue of Iraqi debt, because the Iraqi debt is crushing. It's $8,000 for every man, woman and child in that country.
The Bush debt alone, just Bush's share of our debt, is $33,000 for every man, woman and child in America. Whose going to help us with the Bush debt while he's helping Iraqis with their debt?
DAVIS: You know, the problem is, 9-11 came in, we've had to gear up for war and recession at the same time. So when that happens, the country has always gone into some debt. We have a plan to get back -- the resolution we passed -- get back onto balance, you know, over the next decade, and as a percentage EDP, the debt is smaller than it was in the early years of the Clinton administration.
WYNN: When Clinton left, we had a surplus. What happened to the surplus? We had a $400 billion surplus. We now have a $500 billion deficit. That's a $900 billion turnaround once the Republicans took control.
DAVIS: 70 percent of that is because we're in recession and the war and the war on terrorism. That has driven 70 percent of that. And I would remind you that the...
(CROSSTALK)
WYNN: The war on terrorism is actually a relatively modest portion of that amount, 40 percent.
DAVIS: I'm including the Iraq War as part of that.
WYNN: Oh, you mean the war that he misled us into?
DAVIS: The fact of the matter is, we never would have had a balanced budget under President Clinton if the Republican Congress hadn't come in in 1995. I think everybody understands that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Hang on just a second. We'll have issue No. 2 coming up next on our list as we count down CROSSFIRE's top stories of 2003. And then later, how one very famous United States senator stole the show. CROSSFIRE's most memorable moment of 2003.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: Welcome back.
When the year started, hardly anyone could name the outgoing governor of Vermont. A lot of Democrats still don't know much about him, but Howard Dean may be their party's presidential nominee.
We're counting down 2003's top stories with Congressman Al Wynn, Democrat of Maryland, and Congressman Tom Davis, Republican of Virginia.
Congressman Wynn, is the Democratic Party going to go with this fellow who seems to make every mistake in the world? He says that Saddam Hussein's capture doesn't make any difference. He doesn't even know if Osama bin Laden is guilty. He's talking about conspiracy theories. Are you about to drive off the cliff with this guy? WYNN: No. First of all, I think the press is actually making too much of this and trying to end the primaries before they've begun. I think we're a long way off from determining who is going to be the nominee.
Clearly Governor Dean is in the driver's seat right now. I'm endorsing John Edwards. I think he's an outstanding candidate. When we get down to South Carolina and Oklahoma and some other states in the south, I think you're going to see a very different race.
NOVAK: But how did Dean get in this position? He is the frontrunner.
WYNN: He is the frontrunner. He's done some innovative things over the Internet, and he's appealed to the anger within the Democratic Party, and he's energized some of the activists in the party, and I think that's good, as far as it goes.
But we've got to talk about more than anger. We've got to talk about a vision. We've got to talk about this economy. And I think we have a lot to say. It may be Dean or it may be someone else. I think John Edwards has great vision about putting kids in college, about helping people own their own homes, about creating jobs, and that's what this election is going to turn on. It's the economy.
BEGALA: Well, Congressman Davis, in addition to being a congressman representing Virginia, you chaired your party's congressional campaign committee.
In that, one of the thankless tasks in either party, you raised a bunch of money -- by the way, you did it without the slightest hint of any ethical scandal, so congratulations. Don't you then admire Howard Dean for raising all of this money and raising it in such a clean fashion, through the Internet, small donations from millions of ordinary Americans? Even a Republican has to admire that, right?
DAVIS: Absolutely. I mean, he is remaking campaign strategies. He's been very successful, as Al noted, in terms of raising money through the Internet, getting small donors, going after the anger base and the cultural left in the Democratic Party, which, by the way, is where the money is in that party.
But in every general election match up at this point he looks vulnerable, particularly in New Hampshire, where he's running way ahead of the Democratic pack, but way behind President Bush one-on- one, and they've already spent millions of dollars worth of ads against Bush.
It does not portend well for the Democrats next November, I think, if Dean is nominated.
BEGALA: But do you think my friends in the Bush White House, and they are my friends, friends of mine from Texas days, are making a mistake in publicly saying, "We want Howard Dean, bring him on," as it were, as has been said about attacks on our troops. Isn't that a mistake? Shouldn't they have more respect for a guy who's come out of nowhere to become the frontrunner in his party in such an impressive way?
DAVIS: Well, these races can bounce funny ways. The referendum will fundamentally be a referendum on Bush. The election will be a referendum on Bush and the Republican Congress, and it's ours to win or lose and who the Democratic nominee will be a few points one way or the other.
But it's ours to win or lose at this point. Things are looking good for us at this point. Dean looks more vulnerable than the others because...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I'm going to try again, Al, to see what your opinion is, congressman, on whether this guy is really a real risk for the Democratic Party, Howard Dean.
He was asked by a paper in Iowa, as part of a survey, to name the closest living relative in the military. He named a brother who has been dead for 29 years and never been in the military and is not alive. Why would he do something like that?
WYNN: He made a mistake. The election is not going to turn on whether he has a brother, living or dead, in the military. The message is not going to turn on his personal quips.
This election is going to turn on the economy, the economy.
NOVAK: It doesn't matter what kind of guy he is, then.
WYNN: He's fine. He's fine. He's experienced as a governor. He's a doctor. He can talk about health care.
Look, the Republicans have done nothing about the rising cause of health insurance in this country. 43 million Americans still don't have health insurance. Bush is going to have to answer to that. They've got the House, they've got the Senate, they've got the White House. Why do we still have the health insurance problem? We've got other problems.
They give us a really weak drug program, discount drug program. They're going to have to answer for that. We've got huge casualties coming back from Iraq. They're going to have to answer for that.
So I think the issue is going to be how the Democrats talk about the economy, how we can create jobs compared to the 3 million that the Republicans lost and talk about a vision for how we can make Americans have a better way of life.
I think the Democrats will do that, with Dean or with someone else, and I think we'll be very successful. I think the Republicans have got a hard way to go.
BEGALA: Congressman Albert Wynn, of Maryland, Congressman Tom Davis, keep your seats. We've got the big issue up ahead, the No. 1 story that we talked about more than anything else this year, on CROSSFIRE. A top debate of the year. Just ahead.
And then later, how an autobiography triggered CROSSFIRE's most memorable moment of the year.
Stay with us.
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BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
From a State of the Union Address that contained false statements to hot-dogging onto an aircraft carrier under a banner reading "Mission Accomplished" then refusing to attend a single funeral for our war dead to pretending to serve a turkey centerpiece to a pre- screened audience while other troops were turned away and ate MRE's in the sand, George W. Bush made the politics of Iraq our No. 1 story this year.
In the CROSSFIRE to discuss it, Virginia Republican Congressman Tom Davis and Maryland Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn.
Congressman Davis, let's go through it. Earlier, Congressman Wynn said we were misled into the war. You didn't have a chance to respond. Let me go through them. We were told that we would be welcomed as liberators. Certainly not true. We were told that Saddam sought nuclear material in Africa. The president says that wasn't true. That it would cost only $1.7 billion; we're at $160 billion and counting. And that there were close links to al Qaeda, which the CIA says is not true. We were misled into this war, weren't we?
DAVIS: No, I don't think so. Look, we had had long-standing problems with Iraq going back to the Clinton administration, where they had violated agreement after agreement after agreement. It's the most brutal regime since Hitler.
We formed a coalition of the willing, the United Nations unable to act because of vetoes from Russia and France and Germany. A very gutsy move for the president.
Saddam Hussein is now captured, Iraq is free, and it's still a difficult situation over there, but the people by and large -- I've been over there. Very supportive of what we are doing. But it's tough, but I think we are doing the right thing. We are on the right path at this point.
NOVAK: Congressman Al Wynn, Paul's long spree about things that are going bad, with fake turkeys and landing on aircraft carriers, he didn't mention that this was a great military victory by our men and women in the service.
Do you think -- you're an experienced Democratic politician. Do you think it's good to go into this campaign with the same line that Paul has, talking about fake turkeys, when the Republicans are going to say, gee, look at the job that our men and women did in Iraq?
WYNN: Actually, I think that the president has got real problems here, and I think Paul is only the tip of the iceberg. I mean, we're about to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat -- I mean defeat out of the jaws of victory.
We won the war, but we're losing the peace. You wrote an interesting story just the other day, saying that the contracts that were supposed to rebuild the infrastructure aren't going forward, even though Congress passed the money. That's not happening. The constitution that was supposed to be drafted before we turned over sovereignty is not going to happen. The privatization that the Bush administration talked about, the great privatization and democratization of the Middle East, that's not happening. They've backed off privatization.
So the big things they said they were going to accomplish haven't been accomplished and you still have the continuing casualties. What you have is U.S. arrogance led by the secretary of defense and the administration and Paul Wolfowitz and the rest of the gang has basically led us in the wrong direction. The American people see it. Democrats are going to be happy to campaign on this.
The Republicans and the president have real problems. They did the right thing for the wrong reasons, but now they are totally mismanaging the situation and I think they've got real problems.
BEGALA: Congressman Davis, one of the reasons many of us, including myself, opposed this war was the concern that it would distract us from the real war, from the real enemy, that is al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.
As we gather on New Year's Eve, al Qaeda threatens us again. They're reconstituting in Afghanistan and around the world. The president pulled intelligence assets away from al Qaeda to focus on Saddam Hussein and now al Qaeda threatens us again. Was it worth it? Did it help make us safer?
DAVIS: I think so. First of all, you have a lot of the jihad al Qaeda groups going over those porous borders in Syria and Iran into Iraq. It seems in the Middle East that's where the focus is.
We've had no major episodes in the United States since 9-11. We've dismantled literally dozens of terrorist cells, closed down their bank accounts. It's a very difficult organization to dismantle, but we're making tremendous headway in these areas and I think we ought to be proud of what our president is doing.
And, Al, I hope you run against the president on Iraq. I think the public is supportive of what we're doing there. The war is going well. The conventional war went faster and better than any of you predicted and, you know, we're going to...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let me ask you one thing, congressman. Right now we have Saddam Hussein, who I think you'll agree with me is one of the bloodies tyrants in the modern era, in captivity. If you and your kind of people, Mr. Dean, Mr. Edwards, were in charge, he'd still be running the show in Baghdad. Would that be better -- would the world be better off with him in Baghdad?
WYNN: Let me clarify. If Mr. Edwards was running the show, or if Mr. Wynn were running the show, he'd be captured, just as he is right now.
NOVAK: How would you do that? You wouldn't have had the war.
WYNN: No. I actually voted for the war. I was misled into the war, but I did vote for it.
NOVAK: But you're saying it was a mistake.
WYNN: Yes, it was a mistake.
NOVAK: I can't figure that out.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Saddam Hussein would be in power if there were no war? I think that's true. 478 Americans would be alive today who died in that war, too. Isn't that also true?
NOVAK: As much fun as this is, time is up.
Congressman Al Wynn, thank you. Congressman Tom Davis, thank you.
Next, CROSSFIRE's top highlight of the year is proof that you should never make a promise you can't stomach keeping.
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BEGALA: Welcome back to this New Year's Eve edition of CROSSFIRE.
Well, 2003 for us will always be remembered as the year our pal Tucker Carlson rashly promised to eat his shoe if Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton sold a million copies of her terrific autobiography, "Living History."
Well, as we all know, Hillary did that, and more, so back on July 9 the good senator graciously made it easy for Tucker to keep his promise. Here it is again, just as it happened.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEGALA: Tucker, you're going to have to eat some shoe leather, buddy.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: You know, Paul, it wouldn't be the first time I've had to eat my words. Oh, my gosh!
BEGALA: Ladies and gentlemen, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
SEN. HILLARY RODHAM CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: Tucker.
CARLSON: Thank you very much.
CLINTON: You're very welcome.
BEGALA: We've got some accoutrements here.
Mrs. Clinton, thank you.
CLINTON: Well, I really want you to notice, Tucker, that this is a wingtip. It's a right wingtip. And I was a little worried about how you were actually going to be able to eat and digest a shoe. I didn't even know what kind you were going to choose.
CARLSON: Thank you.
CLINTON: So I had a friend of mine, Paulette (ph), who is here somewhere, from New York, do this for you, because I figured you had enough embarrassment and humiliation over this episode.
CARLSON: Yes, I have. Thank you.
CLINTON: That the least I could do was to, you know, give you something a little...
CARLSON: Well, you are awfully gracious. I appreciate that, senator. Thank you very much.
BEGALA: Would you like to do the honors, here, senator?
CLINTON: Well, it's really -- don't you think it's Tuckers...
BEGALA: Tucker, which piece of the shoe are you going to start with?
CLINTON: Well, obviously, the heel. Here you go.
CARLSON: Thank you. I shall and hope you will join me in some.
CLINTON: Now I have nothing to do to help you with the tie you also promised to eat. So I'll wait and watch how you handle that.
CARLSON: Thank you. I'm going to get a marzipan tie. I think they make them.
And congratulations on your book selling a million copies.
CLINTON: Thank you so much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NOVAK: Paul, you notice that she didn't sit down. And she didn't answer any questions. You know, I would like her to come here and sit with you and me and I have a lot of very good questions for her, about all the mistakes they made, about White Water and other things like that.
BEGALA: You know what she showed? She showed something that you don't see very often on the right. She showed class, she showed grace, she showed humor. She showed all of the things that I wish some of my friends on the right would adopt.
Thank you, Hillary, for giving us the moment of the year and the book of the year.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it from CROSSFIRE. Happy New Year.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Happy New Year. And join us again next year for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
WOLF BLITZER REPORTS is next.
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