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CNN Crossfire
Gay Marriage Firestorm
Aired February 27, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Should the country amend the Constitution to prevent gay marriage?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is important that people hold true to their beliefs, without condemning anybody else.
ROSIE O'DONNELL, COMEDIAN: We were both inspired to come here after the silting president said the vile and vicious and hateful comments he did on Tuesday.
BUSH: This is a debate that the nation must have.
ANNOUNCER: So we will today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
At this moment, Governor Bill Owens of Colorado is about to begin a press briefing on the scandal involving the athletic department at the University of Colorado.
Let's go to that press conference and Governor Bill Owens live now.
(INTERRUPTED FOR LIVE EVENT)
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
BEGALA: Governor Bill Owens of Colorado, joined by Ken Salazar, the state attorney general, announcing a special prosecutor will be used to investigate allegations of sexual assault and other misconduct at the University of Colorado's football program.
This programming note that you should know. Colorado Governor Bill Owens will appear live on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" to talk more about today's announcement.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to the live Washington audience, call 202-994-8CNN or e-mail us at CNN@gwu.edu. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: In explaining his call for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, George W. Bush today said he believes that marriage between a man and a woman is the ideal. He added -- quote -- "It is a president's job to drive policy toward the ideal."
In the CROSSFIRE, from Chicago, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, Democrat of Illinois. With us here in Washington, Congress Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Thank you both for joining us, Congresswoman Schakowsky and Congressman DeMint. Awfully good of you to come by.
REP. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Thank you, Paul.
BEGALA: This is not the first time George W. Bush has been asked about the issue of gay marriage and the federal role in it. When he was running to be our president, he was asked about Vermont, which at the time had had a big issue about civil unions and homosexuals.
And he said this: "It's the right of the state to make that decision, just like it's the right of the state of South Carolina to make the decision on the flag." Back then, President Bush didn't think we should amend the Constitution. This is a big flip-flop for him just before the election. Isn't that kind of unprincipled?
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: Paul, It's not a flip-flop at all.
In fact, the point of this amendment is to protect states like Illinois and South Carolina, who have laws against same-sex marriages. And that's what this amendment will do. And the president has stepped in here because misguided judges are starting to impose their will on different states. This amendment
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: With respect, with respect, with respect, both Vice President Cheney and President Bush in 2000, Vice President Cheney much more forcefully, argued the federal government should have no role, that, if state A wants to recognize it and state B does not, and there's nothing that's changed in this, except states are actually doing what Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney said they should, which is deciding it for themselves.
DEMINT: The president...
(APPLAUSE)
DEMINT: ... in supporting this amendment is actually protecting the states, because this amendment defines marriage as between a man and a woman, but leaves other agreements up to the states.
NOVAK: Congresswoman Schakowsky, I'd like to get your view on this. Are you ready for some court, maybe the Illinois Supreme Court, to do away with the Illinois state law defining marriage? Are you going to say some judges know more than the people of the state of Illinois?
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: You know, Bob, you and I both know this isn't about marriage. This is about politics.
The president himself said he wanted to kick off his campaign with a fresh issue. This is -- that's all that it's about. Why should we be amending the Constitution, this document that has always expanded human rights and human freedom, right now to enshrine discrimination? It's absolutely ridiculous.
(APPLAUSE)
SCHAKOWSKY: Most Americans think this should be left to the states.
NOVAK: Jan -- Jan, thanks very much for your unpaid political commercial. But I would like you to address my question. There is a state law in Illinois which bans gay marriage. I want to know if you are prepared to acquiesce in some unelected judges, or elected judges, for that matter, overriding the legislature, overriding the people of the state of Illinois?
SCHAKOWSKY: I'll tell you what, Bob. To me, this is a nonissue. This is like a magician who says the real act...
NOVAK: Why won't don't you answer the question
SCHAKOWSKY: Look over here.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Why won't you answer the question?
SCHAKOWSKY: You know what? This is not an issue in my life. And if my friends Roger and Michael want to enshrine their 21-year relationship, I'm for it.
NOVAK: You won't answer the question. I give up.
SCHAKOWSKY: I'm for it.
DEMINT: Thirty-eight states have laws just like that. And that's what we're trying to protect.
BEGALA: Now, Congressman, Congresswoman Schakowsky suggested this is politics.
SCHAKOWSKY: Yes.
BEGALA: I happen to believe that she is right.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Because -- and let me give you a few other examples. Our president, our president, he clearly loves our country. I disagree with him politically. But there's no doubt this man loves our country deeply.
There's equally no doubt this a man who hates our Constitution. He wants seven, seven, new amendments to Mr. Madison's masterpiece, seven, one on gay marriage, one on school prayer, one on flag burning, one on abortion, one on a line-item veto, one on crime victims bill of rights. And just to show us he has a sense of humor, he wants a constitutional amendment for a balanced budget.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Now, either he hates the Constitution or he's a posturing politician, isn't he? Come on, seven.
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: He's trying to take us beyond politics here.
BEGALA: Seven, sir?
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: When you have judges legislating from the bench, which is what's happening in Massachusetts and all over the country now, they're overturning laws that are made by the people in a Democratic process, and if the judges won't interpret the Constitution in a way that's obvious, then we're going to have to go back and clarify it for them.
NOVAK: I want to...
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Congresswoman Schakowsky, I'd like you to listen to something that Senator Kerry, you prospective presidential nominee, said in the debate from Los Angeles last night. And he was asked about his vote, only one of 14 members of the Senate that voted against the Defense of Marriage bill. And let's see how he explained that vote last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think, under the full faith and credit clause, that I was incorrect in that statement. I think, in fact, that no state has to recognize something that is against their public policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, Congresswoman Schakowsky, I haven't found anybody who understands what he's talking about. But you're pretty smart. Do you have any idea what he's talking about?
(LAUGHTER)
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, I don't think the president understands his amendment either. He said he would leave the door open to civil unions. And, in fact, the way this constitutional amendment is written, it would actually eliminate partner benefits. It could just turn the clock back on couples.
But if you want to talk about marriage, Bob, let me quote my mayor of the city of Chicago, Mayor Daley, a straight shooter in every day. He says: "Marriage has been undermined by divorce. So don't tell me about marriage. Don't blame the gay and lesbian, transgender and transsexual community. People should look at their own life in their own mirror."
I think the mayor's right.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Jan, you're -- you're determined not to answer any question I give you. But you couldn't explain what John Kerry was talking about. And even -- and somebody else who doesn't understand is the governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney.
He said: "In the case of the Massachusetts Constitution, he, Kerry, agrees with me that we should have an amendment on the federal Constitution. He doesn't agree with me. And I think the American people are going to be just as confused as I am as to where he stands."
You have a wonderful opportunity on national television to explain what the hell John Kerry's talking about.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You want to take it?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, I just -- go ahead. BEGALA: Congressman DeMint, let me ask you again about our president here. It seems to me -- first off, being from Texas, I knew him a little bit when he was my governor. He's a very nice guy. I don't think he's got a bigoted bone in his body. And yet, when he gets in political trouble, what does he do? John McCain beats him in New Hampshire. He goes to your state of South Carolina and campaigns at Bob Johnson University, a place of vicious bigotry against my Catholic faith and Mr. Novak's Catholic faith.
DEMINT: That's absolutely wrong.
BEGALA: There are vicious bigots there, sir. And I know one because when I see it, because I'm a Catholic and they hate my faith.
DEMINT: You're absolutely wrong.
BEGALA: Now he's in trouble for his reelection. Now he's bashing the gays. This is what he does when he gets in trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: This has nothing to do with bashing the gays. Marriage predates our Constitution through all civilizations in history, has been esteemed as a corner building block of our society. Now you're trying to take it and apply it towards a behavior that all of these civilizations have been considered wrong. It has nothing to do with putting down a particular group of people.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: We've got just one minute left and I want to get give Ms. Schakowsky a chance to answer one question. She hasn't any so far.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
SCHAKOWSKY: OK.
NOVAK: Emmett C. Burns Jr., who is a Democrat -- he's a member of the Maryland legislature -- he said -- this is a Democrat, Jan -- "The overwhelming majority of people don't agree with gay marriage. But the gay and lesbian lobby has scared the heck out of the Democrats."
Are you scared of lesbians, Ms. Schakowsky?
(LAUGHTER)
SCHAKOWSKY: Oh, I -- I'm not at all. I'm not at all.
And if my friend Jacki (ph) and Ann (ph) want to provide a two- parent family to their son, David, who they adopted, I'm all for it. But, Bob, I couldn't quite hear you. If you were offering me to explain Senator Kerry's vote on DOMA and his position, I think he was right to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act. Marriage doesn't need defending.
My marriage, your marriage, nobody's marriage is threatened by same-sex couples that want nothing more than to get into a very conservative institution, marriage.
(APPLAUSE)
SCHAKOWSKY: And I think John Kerry is opposed to a constitutional amendment because we don't want to mess with the Constitution to enshrine discrimination.
BEGALA: Congresswoman Schakowsky, I'm sorry to cut you off. Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky in Illinois, that will have to be the last word on this.
Congressman Jim DeMint from South Carolina, thank you as well. A terrific debate. I'm sorry we cut it short, but we had to go and cover the Colorado story at the beginning of the show. But thank you both very much. We'd like to have you back.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: And when we come back, you get to "Fireback" at Bob and me on the issue of gay marriage.
And right after the break, is U.S. policy about to change regarding the crisis in Haiti? Wolf Blitzer has the latest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Haiti, chaotic and getting worse by the moment. The capital may soon be overrun. U.S. Marines are at the ready. In minutes, I'll be speaking live with the man who could possibly head it all off, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
Allegations of sexual assault by football players of alcohol and sex parties as recruitment ploys. It's now all a matter for a special prosecutor who will investigate the University of Colorado. I'll speak live with Colorado's Governor Bill Owens.
And a big development in the Martha Stewart trial. We'll tell you what that is. Those stories, much more just minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: Time for "Fireback," when the viewers fire back at us.
Our first e-mail from John Bradway of Atlanta, Georgia: "Weren't liberals outraged when the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court would not remove the Ten Commandments from the courthouse? Yet they do not seem to have a problem with the mayor of San Francisco breaking the law by allowing gay marriage. What's the problem here?"
Well, John, what it is, they prefer gays to God. That's essentially what it is.
BEGALA: I actually believe gays are made by God, just like everybody else and we should love everybody equally and treat them equally and well.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But, anyway, Sue Garoutte, Sue Garoutte. I'm sorry, Sue, if I got your name wrong -- Wichita, Kansas, writes: "If the word marriage is so sacred that it needs to be defined in the Constitution, let's make it sacred. One marriage per heterosexual couple per lifetime."
Wow.
NOVAK: You buy that?
BEGALA: Yes.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You but that?
BEGALA: I'm for that.
NOVAK: I'm sure you don't. You're just kidding.
OK, what's the next one? Bring it up.
From Tom Green of Portland, Oregon: "This issue has to be solved at the federal level. Otherwise, who is to decide who shall get federal benefits like the Social Security and immigration rights? What if they have to move to another state? Is the couple no longer married? Like it or not, this is a federal issue."
Tom, I wonder if you're kidding. I wonder what you're really interested in is immigration rights as a part of the question of what constitutes marriage.
BEGALA: I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: OK, some politicians deserve their own awards show. We're going to oblige them next on CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Well, the Academy Awards are this Sunday night. And if "Seabiscuit" doesn't win them all, that means Scalia and Katherine Harris are counting the votes. We're going to take a little jump on it, though, beat Hollywood to the punch by handing out a few awards of our own.
First, my award for best costume, of course, George W. Bush. First, he dressed up like Top Gun. Then he dressed up like Mr. Green Jeans. Then he dressed up like a NASCAR fan. Where's the Andover cheerleader outfit? That's my favorite.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: OK, worst -- worst supporting actor goes to Ralph Nader. That's worst supporting actor from the standpoint of the Democrats, best supporting actor from the standpoint of the Republicans.
BEGALA: Very good point.
Best foreign language film. Of course, what could possibly beat that great debate in Los Angeles, California, of Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Terminator, and Arianna Huffington, two great American immigrants who just -- they were just charming together. They should get their own show.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I like them. And you make fun of Arnold. He's the most popular politician in America today.
BEGALA: He's a delight. He's a very interesting guy.
NOVAK: This is my favorite, the best sound effect of the year. It comes from Howard Dean.
(LAUGHTER)
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not only are we going to New Hampshire, Tom Harkin. We're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico. We're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: That is -- I've been watching politics for almost 50 years, and that is the first time I saw a political suicide live on television.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Howard Dean did a lot for my party and we owe him a lot. NOVAK: Yes.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
At this moment, Governor Bill Owens of Colorado is about to begin a press briefing on the scandal involving the athletic department at the University of Colorado.
Let's go to that press conference and Governor Bill Owens live now.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. BILL OWENS (R), COLORADO: Its football program and that program's recruiting practices.
The reputations of this program and the university must be restored and this matter resolved quickly, the allegations of sexual misconduct and rape, alcohol abuse and recruiting violations and the potential role in all of this by university employees, well known. Of equal concern is the perception that a climate may exist within the athletic department that discourages victims from reporting crimes.
For the past four weeks, members of my staff and I have had numerous conversations with university officials, with the attorney general and his office, legislative leaders, law enforcement, district attorneys. The university has taken a series of steps which I support. Dr. Hoffman, the attorney general and I, like all Coloradans, want these allegations investigated thoroughly.
The facts need to be put on the table, with no spin, no whitewash, and with no excuses. That's what every student and parent and taxpayer expects and deserves. It's what the university's reputation and those involved with it expect and deserve. I also said one month ago that if I felt it necessary to act to protect the integrity of the University of Colorado, I would do so. And today, I am.
The university is governed by an elected board of regents. That separately elected board of regents has created its own investigative panel. I believe that investigation should continue. But the attorney general and I believe that the university should expand the membership on that panel with two members who would represent the people of Colorado, members who I would appoint. I believe it is essential that the panel have a current or former prosecutor with direct and proven expertise in prosecuting crimes against women.
And we also believe that that panel needs a victims advocate who has worked closely with victims of sexual assault. These two additions, we feel, are critical to the credibility of this investigation. It will make the probe more thorough. It will give the panel the breadth and depth of expertise that it needs. The attorney general and I are also calling on the legislature to grant the university's investigative panel subpoena authority with legislative oversight.
This is an indispensable tool that is critical to the success of the investigation. I believe that this panel can succeed with these two additions, two representatives appointed by me to represent the people of Colorado, accompanied by the subpoena power necessary to compel cooperation. However, even with that subpoena power, the university's commission still lacks the authority to investigate and prosecute crimes that may have occurred.
And I do not believe that the interests of justice is served by waiting weeks or months for the panel's final report before moving forward with the criminal investigations and potentially prosecution. In the past four weeks, since these allegations first surfaced, new charges have been reported that cover multiple jurisdictions in our state and multiple law enforcement agencies.
It has become to me very clear that one statewide special prosecutor is needed to fully investigate every aspect of these allegations. These charges cross county lines. They cross judicial districts. And the integrity, reputation and public confidence in a statewide institution, the University of Colorado, is at stake. This investigation needs the credibility that comes from experts from outside of the university.
We must also ensure that all of the cases proceed in a unified and comprehensive manner. So, this afternoon, I am appointing Attorney General Ken Salazar to investigate and potentially prosecute allegations of sexual offenses and other related criminal matters regarding the football program and recruitment activities at the University of Colorado. My chief counsel, Cynthia Honsinger (ph), will be appointed by the attorney general to serve as an assistant attorney general on these matters.
The attorney general will assemble a task force of investigators and prosecutors to assist him in this effort. And I want to thank Ken Salazar for shouldering this responsibility. The appointment of the attorney general as the statewide special prosecutor in this matter has the support of the University of Colorado. It also has the support of Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan and the Boulder and Broomfield Police Departments. And I thank them all.
This appointment shows that we are united in our effort and determination to root out any misconduct, to take action against any person who's done wrong, as well to clear any person who's been falsely accused. I believe that the university, it's time for it to be able to move beyond this issue, so that it can once again focus on how best to educate Colorado's students.
As we repair the damage done, I want to underscore one major goal of this entire effort. There can be no perception at this university or at any other in Colorado that sexual abuse or assault will be tolerated or that criminals will be coddled if there are, in fact, any. Women need to know that they can and should come forward and that they'll be supported and protected when they do.
There will be a new day for the University of Colorado. There will be a bright future for its institution and its football program. Both will emerge from this ordeal stronger and better. That's why today's actions are so necessary and why we must move forward under one special prosecutor. These questions must be answered.
The attorney general and I are committed to working with all concerned to do exactly that.
Attorney General Ken Salazar -- Ken.
BEGALA: Governor Bill Owens of Colorado, joined by Ken Salazar, the state attorney general, announcing a special prosecutor will be used to investigate allegations of sexual assault and other misconduct at the University of Colorado's football program.
This programming note that you should know. Colorado Governor Bill Owens will appear live on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" to talk more about today's announcement.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Allegations>
Aired February 27, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Should the country amend the Constitution to prevent gay marriage?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It is important that people hold true to their beliefs, without condemning anybody else.
ROSIE O'DONNELL, COMEDIAN: We were both inspired to come here after the silting president said the vile and vicious and hateful comments he did on Tuesday.
BUSH: This is a debate that the nation must have.
ANNOUNCER: So we will today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
At this moment, Governor Bill Owens of Colorado is about to begin a press briefing on the scandal involving the athletic department at the University of Colorado.
Let's go to that press conference and Governor Bill Owens live now.
(INTERRUPTED FOR LIVE EVENT)
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
BEGALA: Governor Bill Owens of Colorado, joined by Ken Salazar, the state attorney general, announcing a special prosecutor will be used to investigate allegations of sexual assault and other misconduct at the University of Colorado's football program.
This programming note that you should know. Colorado Governor Bill Owens will appear live on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" to talk more about today's announcement.
Stay with us.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to the live Washington audience, call 202-994-8CNN or e-mail us at CNN@gwu.edu. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: In explaining his call for a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage, George W. Bush today said he believes that marriage between a man and a woman is the ideal. He added -- quote -- "It is a president's job to drive policy toward the ideal."
In the CROSSFIRE, from Chicago, Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky, Democrat of Illinois. With us here in Washington, Congress Jim DeMint, Republican of South Carolina.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Thank you both for joining us, Congresswoman Schakowsky and Congressman DeMint. Awfully good of you to come by.
REP. JIM DEMINT (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Thank you, Paul.
BEGALA: This is not the first time George W. Bush has been asked about the issue of gay marriage and the federal role in it. When he was running to be our president, he was asked about Vermont, which at the time had had a big issue about civil unions and homosexuals.
And he said this: "It's the right of the state to make that decision, just like it's the right of the state of South Carolina to make the decision on the flag." Back then, President Bush didn't think we should amend the Constitution. This is a big flip-flop for him just before the election. Isn't that kind of unprincipled?
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: Paul, It's not a flip-flop at all.
In fact, the point of this amendment is to protect states like Illinois and South Carolina, who have laws against same-sex marriages. And that's what this amendment will do. And the president has stepped in here because misguided judges are starting to impose their will on different states. This amendment
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: With respect, with respect, with respect, both Vice President Cheney and President Bush in 2000, Vice President Cheney much more forcefully, argued the federal government should have no role, that, if state A wants to recognize it and state B does not, and there's nothing that's changed in this, except states are actually doing what Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney said they should, which is deciding it for themselves.
DEMINT: The president...
(APPLAUSE)
DEMINT: ... in supporting this amendment is actually protecting the states, because this amendment defines marriage as between a man and a woman, but leaves other agreements up to the states.
NOVAK: Congresswoman Schakowsky, I'd like to get your view on this. Are you ready for some court, maybe the Illinois Supreme Court, to do away with the Illinois state law defining marriage? Are you going to say some judges know more than the people of the state of Illinois?
REP. JAN SCHAKOWSKY (D), ILLINOIS: You know, Bob, you and I both know this isn't about marriage. This is about politics.
The president himself said he wanted to kick off his campaign with a fresh issue. This is -- that's all that it's about. Why should we be amending the Constitution, this document that has always expanded human rights and human freedom, right now to enshrine discrimination? It's absolutely ridiculous.
(APPLAUSE)
SCHAKOWSKY: Most Americans think this should be left to the states.
NOVAK: Jan -- Jan, thanks very much for your unpaid political commercial. But I would like you to address my question. There is a state law in Illinois which bans gay marriage. I want to know if you are prepared to acquiesce in some unelected judges, or elected judges, for that matter, overriding the legislature, overriding the people of the state of Illinois?
SCHAKOWSKY: I'll tell you what, Bob. To me, this is a nonissue. This is like a magician who says the real act...
NOVAK: Why won't don't you answer the question
SCHAKOWSKY: Look over here.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Why won't you answer the question?
SCHAKOWSKY: You know what? This is not an issue in my life. And if my friends Roger and Michael want to enshrine their 21-year relationship, I'm for it.
NOVAK: You won't answer the question. I give up.
SCHAKOWSKY: I'm for it.
DEMINT: Thirty-eight states have laws just like that. And that's what we're trying to protect.
BEGALA: Now, Congressman, Congresswoman Schakowsky suggested this is politics.
SCHAKOWSKY: Yes.
BEGALA: I happen to believe that she is right.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Because -- and let me give you a few other examples. Our president, our president, he clearly loves our country. I disagree with him politically. But there's no doubt this man loves our country deeply.
There's equally no doubt this a man who hates our Constitution. He wants seven, seven, new amendments to Mr. Madison's masterpiece, seven, one on gay marriage, one on school prayer, one on flag burning, one on abortion, one on a line-item veto, one on crime victims bill of rights. And just to show us he has a sense of humor, he wants a constitutional amendment for a balanced budget.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Now, either he hates the Constitution or he's a posturing politician, isn't he? Come on, seven.
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: He's trying to take us beyond politics here.
BEGALA: Seven, sir?
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: When you have judges legislating from the bench, which is what's happening in Massachusetts and all over the country now, they're overturning laws that are made by the people in a Democratic process, and if the judges won't interpret the Constitution in a way that's obvious, then we're going to have to go back and clarify it for them.
NOVAK: I want to...
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Congresswoman Schakowsky, I'd like you to listen to something that Senator Kerry, you prospective presidential nominee, said in the debate from Los Angeles last night. And he was asked about his vote, only one of 14 members of the Senate that voted against the Defense of Marriage bill. And let's see how he explained that vote last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think, under the full faith and credit clause, that I was incorrect in that statement. I think, in fact, that no state has to recognize something that is against their public policy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, Congresswoman Schakowsky, I haven't found anybody who understands what he's talking about. But you're pretty smart. Do you have any idea what he's talking about?
(LAUGHTER)
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, I don't think the president understands his amendment either. He said he would leave the door open to civil unions. And, in fact, the way this constitutional amendment is written, it would actually eliminate partner benefits. It could just turn the clock back on couples.
But if you want to talk about marriage, Bob, let me quote my mayor of the city of Chicago, Mayor Daley, a straight shooter in every day. He says: "Marriage has been undermined by divorce. So don't tell me about marriage. Don't blame the gay and lesbian, transgender and transsexual community. People should look at their own life in their own mirror."
I think the mayor's right.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Jan, you're -- you're determined not to answer any question I give you. But you couldn't explain what John Kerry was talking about. And even -- and somebody else who doesn't understand is the governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney.
He said: "In the case of the Massachusetts Constitution, he, Kerry, agrees with me that we should have an amendment on the federal Constitution. He doesn't agree with me. And I think the American people are going to be just as confused as I am as to where he stands."
You have a wonderful opportunity on national television to explain what the hell John Kerry's talking about.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You want to take it?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
SCHAKOWSKY: Well, I just -- go ahead. BEGALA: Congressman DeMint, let me ask you again about our president here. It seems to me -- first off, being from Texas, I knew him a little bit when he was my governor. He's a very nice guy. I don't think he's got a bigoted bone in his body. And yet, when he gets in political trouble, what does he do? John McCain beats him in New Hampshire. He goes to your state of South Carolina and campaigns at Bob Johnson University, a place of vicious bigotry against my Catholic faith and Mr. Novak's Catholic faith.
DEMINT: That's absolutely wrong.
BEGALA: There are vicious bigots there, sir. And I know one because when I see it, because I'm a Catholic and they hate my faith.
DEMINT: You're absolutely wrong.
BEGALA: Now he's in trouble for his reelection. Now he's bashing the gays. This is what he does when he gets in trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
DEMINT: This has nothing to do with bashing the gays. Marriage predates our Constitution through all civilizations in history, has been esteemed as a corner building block of our society. Now you're trying to take it and apply it towards a behavior that all of these civilizations have been considered wrong. It has nothing to do with putting down a particular group of people.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: We've got just one minute left and I want to get give Ms. Schakowsky a chance to answer one question. She hasn't any so far.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Wait a minute.
SCHAKOWSKY: OK.
NOVAK: Emmett C. Burns Jr., who is a Democrat -- he's a member of the Maryland legislature -- he said -- this is a Democrat, Jan -- "The overwhelming majority of people don't agree with gay marriage. But the gay and lesbian lobby has scared the heck out of the Democrats."
Are you scared of lesbians, Ms. Schakowsky?
(LAUGHTER)
SCHAKOWSKY: Oh, I -- I'm not at all. I'm not at all.
And if my friend Jacki (ph) and Ann (ph) want to provide a two- parent family to their son, David, who they adopted, I'm all for it. But, Bob, I couldn't quite hear you. If you were offering me to explain Senator Kerry's vote on DOMA and his position, I think he was right to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act. Marriage doesn't need defending.
My marriage, your marriage, nobody's marriage is threatened by same-sex couples that want nothing more than to get into a very conservative institution, marriage.
(APPLAUSE)
SCHAKOWSKY: And I think John Kerry is opposed to a constitutional amendment because we don't want to mess with the Constitution to enshrine discrimination.
BEGALA: Congresswoman Schakowsky, I'm sorry to cut you off. Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky in Illinois, that will have to be the last word on this.
Congressman Jim DeMint from South Carolina, thank you as well. A terrific debate. I'm sorry we cut it short, but we had to go and cover the Colorado story at the beginning of the show. But thank you both very much. We'd like to have you back.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: And when we come back, you get to "Fireback" at Bob and me on the issue of gay marriage.
And right after the break, is U.S. policy about to change regarding the crisis in Haiti? Wolf Blitzer has the latest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Haiti, chaotic and getting worse by the moment. The capital may soon be overrun. U.S. Marines are at the ready. In minutes, I'll be speaking live with the man who could possibly head it all off, President Jean-Bertrand Aristide.
Allegations of sexual assault by football players of alcohol and sex parties as recruitment ploys. It's now all a matter for a special prosecutor who will investigate the University of Colorado. I'll speak live with Colorado's Governor Bill Owens.
And a big development in the Martha Stewart trial. We'll tell you what that is. Those stories, much more just minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: Time for "Fireback," when the viewers fire back at us.
Our first e-mail from John Bradway of Atlanta, Georgia: "Weren't liberals outraged when the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court would not remove the Ten Commandments from the courthouse? Yet they do not seem to have a problem with the mayor of San Francisco breaking the law by allowing gay marriage. What's the problem here?"
Well, John, what it is, they prefer gays to God. That's essentially what it is.
BEGALA: I actually believe gays are made by God, just like everybody else and we should love everybody equally and treat them equally and well.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But, anyway, Sue Garoutte, Sue Garoutte. I'm sorry, Sue, if I got your name wrong -- Wichita, Kansas, writes: "If the word marriage is so sacred that it needs to be defined in the Constitution, let's make it sacred. One marriage per heterosexual couple per lifetime."
Wow.
NOVAK: You buy that?
BEGALA: Yes.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You but that?
BEGALA: I'm for that.
NOVAK: I'm sure you don't. You're just kidding.
OK, what's the next one? Bring it up.
From Tom Green of Portland, Oregon: "This issue has to be solved at the federal level. Otherwise, who is to decide who shall get federal benefits like the Social Security and immigration rights? What if they have to move to another state? Is the couple no longer married? Like it or not, this is a federal issue."
Tom, I wonder if you're kidding. I wonder what you're really interested in is immigration rights as a part of the question of what constitutes marriage.
BEGALA: I don't know.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: OK, some politicians deserve their own awards show. We're going to oblige them next on CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Well, the Academy Awards are this Sunday night. And if "Seabiscuit" doesn't win them all, that means Scalia and Katherine Harris are counting the votes. We're going to take a little jump on it, though, beat Hollywood to the punch by handing out a few awards of our own.
First, my award for best costume, of course, George W. Bush. First, he dressed up like Top Gun. Then he dressed up like Mr. Green Jeans. Then he dressed up like a NASCAR fan. Where's the Andover cheerleader outfit? That's my favorite.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: OK, worst -- worst supporting actor goes to Ralph Nader. That's worst supporting actor from the standpoint of the Democrats, best supporting actor from the standpoint of the Republicans.
BEGALA: Very good point.
Best foreign language film. Of course, what could possibly beat that great debate in Los Angeles, California, of Arnold Schwarzenegger, the Terminator, and Arianna Huffington, two great American immigrants who just -- they were just charming together. They should get their own show.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I like them. And you make fun of Arnold. He's the most popular politician in America today.
BEGALA: He's a delight. He's a very interesting guy.
NOVAK: This is my favorite, the best sound effect of the year. It comes from Howard Dean.
(LAUGHTER)
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Not only are we going to New Hampshire, Tom Harkin. We're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico. We're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: That is -- I've been watching politics for almost 50 years, and that is the first time I saw a political suicide live on television.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Howard Dean did a lot for my party and we owe him a lot. NOVAK: Yes.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
At this moment, Governor Bill Owens of Colorado is about to begin a press briefing on the scandal involving the athletic department at the University of Colorado.
Let's go to that press conference and Governor Bill Owens live now.
(JOINED IN PROGRESS)
GOV. BILL OWENS (R), COLORADO: Its football program and that program's recruiting practices.
The reputations of this program and the university must be restored and this matter resolved quickly, the allegations of sexual misconduct and rape, alcohol abuse and recruiting violations and the potential role in all of this by university employees, well known. Of equal concern is the perception that a climate may exist within the athletic department that discourages victims from reporting crimes.
For the past four weeks, members of my staff and I have had numerous conversations with university officials, with the attorney general and his office, legislative leaders, law enforcement, district attorneys. The university has taken a series of steps which I support. Dr. Hoffman, the attorney general and I, like all Coloradans, want these allegations investigated thoroughly.
The facts need to be put on the table, with no spin, no whitewash, and with no excuses. That's what every student and parent and taxpayer expects and deserves. It's what the university's reputation and those involved with it expect and deserve. I also said one month ago that if I felt it necessary to act to protect the integrity of the University of Colorado, I would do so. And today, I am.
The university is governed by an elected board of regents. That separately elected board of regents has created its own investigative panel. I believe that investigation should continue. But the attorney general and I believe that the university should expand the membership on that panel with two members who would represent the people of Colorado, members who I would appoint. I believe it is essential that the panel have a current or former prosecutor with direct and proven expertise in prosecuting crimes against women.
And we also believe that that panel needs a victims advocate who has worked closely with victims of sexual assault. These two additions, we feel, are critical to the credibility of this investigation. It will make the probe more thorough. It will give the panel the breadth and depth of expertise that it needs. The attorney general and I are also calling on the legislature to grant the university's investigative panel subpoena authority with legislative oversight.
This is an indispensable tool that is critical to the success of the investigation. I believe that this panel can succeed with these two additions, two representatives appointed by me to represent the people of Colorado, accompanied by the subpoena power necessary to compel cooperation. However, even with that subpoena power, the university's commission still lacks the authority to investigate and prosecute crimes that may have occurred.
And I do not believe that the interests of justice is served by waiting weeks or months for the panel's final report before moving forward with the criminal investigations and potentially prosecution. In the past four weeks, since these allegations first surfaced, new charges have been reported that cover multiple jurisdictions in our state and multiple law enforcement agencies.
It has become to me very clear that one statewide special prosecutor is needed to fully investigate every aspect of these allegations. These charges cross county lines. They cross judicial districts. And the integrity, reputation and public confidence in a statewide institution, the University of Colorado, is at stake. This investigation needs the credibility that comes from experts from outside of the university.
We must also ensure that all of the cases proceed in a unified and comprehensive manner. So, this afternoon, I am appointing Attorney General Ken Salazar to investigate and potentially prosecute allegations of sexual offenses and other related criminal matters regarding the football program and recruitment activities at the University of Colorado. My chief counsel, Cynthia Honsinger (ph), will be appointed by the attorney general to serve as an assistant attorney general on these matters.
The attorney general will assemble a task force of investigators and prosecutors to assist him in this effort. And I want to thank Ken Salazar for shouldering this responsibility. The appointment of the attorney general as the statewide special prosecutor in this matter has the support of the University of Colorado. It also has the support of Boulder District Attorney Mary Keenan and the Boulder and Broomfield Police Departments. And I thank them all.
This appointment shows that we are united in our effort and determination to root out any misconduct, to take action against any person who's done wrong, as well to clear any person who's been falsely accused. I believe that the university, it's time for it to be able to move beyond this issue, so that it can once again focus on how best to educate Colorado's students.
As we repair the damage done, I want to underscore one major goal of this entire effort. There can be no perception at this university or at any other in Colorado that sexual abuse or assault will be tolerated or that criminals will be coddled if there are, in fact, any. Women need to know that they can and should come forward and that they'll be supported and protected when they do.
There will be a new day for the University of Colorado. There will be a bright future for its institution and its football program. Both will emerge from this ordeal stronger and better. That's why today's actions are so necessary and why we must move forward under one special prosecutor. These questions must be answered.
The attorney general and I are committed to working with all concerned to do exactly that.
Attorney General Ken Salazar -- Ken.
BEGALA: Governor Bill Owens of Colorado, joined by Ken Salazar, the state attorney general, announcing a special prosecutor will be used to investigate allegations of sexual assault and other misconduct at the University of Colorado's football program.
This programming note that you should know. Colorado Governor Bill Owens will appear live on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" to talk more about today's announcement.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Allegations>
