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CNN Crossfire
Super Tuesday Showdown
Aired March 02, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: millions of voters, hundreds of delegates, 10 states, four candidates, and maybe one winner?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't ever raise that expectation. We're going to just try to do as well as we can.
ANNOUNCER: Is anyone feeling super yet?
Today on a special edition of CROSSFIRE: "America Votes 2004."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM CNN Election Headquarters in Atlanta, Paul Begala, James Carville, Robert Novak, and Tucker Carlson.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to our super edition of CROSSFIRE on a super network, CNN, on Super Tuesday in a super city of Atlanta. And if you think we're super full of bull, you're super right. And after tonight, it should be super clear who will be the Democratic Party's starting quarterback for the fall campaign, whatever that means.
Of course, nothing is final until the super votes come in. So all for of us will tackle the super best political super briefing in television, our super CROSSFIRE "Political Alert" on Super Tuesday.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: That's the way to go.
NOVAK: That's it.
Senators John Kerry and John Edwards haven't worried about missing lots of votes in the Senate. Kerry the other day admitted he has missed 25 votes. So why did they rush back to the nation's capital today on Super Tuesday to cast their votes in favor of two restrictions on gun owner rights, even though their votes were not needed? What made this so peculiar is that all the Democrats had decided that gun control was a bad issue for them, and probably lost the presidency for Al Gore.
The reason Kerry and Edwards ran back to Washington was that they both are liberals. They just couldn't resist restricting the Second Amendment.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, Bob, tell me this, then. Does President Bush want to restrict the Second Amendment? Because John Kerry and John Edwards have the same position as our president on continuing President Clinton's ban on assault weapons?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let me tell you something. I would like to make one statement about somebody some day, without you answering it with George W. Bush.
BEGALA: Well, George W. Bush says he's for the same position. You say that makes Kerry and Edwards a liberal. Is Bush a liberal?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I frankly am sick of it, because I'm talking about Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Without even beating up on Bush or anyone else here, the fact is people that
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... who support this legislation don't know anything about guns.
CARVILLE: Well, why does the president support it?
CARLSON: The guns classified as assault weapons are purely -- the differences are purely cosmetic.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: They want to take your guns away.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's the bottom line.
BEGALA: Then, do you think the president doesn't know anything about guns?
CARLSON: I think anybody who supports this legislation, including the president, is wrong.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: I think it's ludicrous legislation.
CARVILLE: How many times -- how many times did you criticize McCain and Dole for missing votes in the Senate?
BEGALA: Not often.
Well, President Bush's education secretary has of course called the nation's largest teacher's group -- quote -- "a terrorist organization" -- unquote. Last week, Maurice Greenberg, the CEO of the insurance giant AIG, told a group of fat-cat CEOs -- quote -- "I call the plaintiff's bar terrorists" -- unquote -- now, this from a man whose industry received a taxpayer bailout, so they didn't have to fully honor their policies after the 9/11 terrorist attack, while our nation's trial lawyers represented the 9/11 families for free.
Of course, if our president, Mr. Bush, had half the decency of his father of Bob Dole or any number of good Republicans, he would disavow this viciousness. Perhaps he doesn't do so for the same reason he campaigned among the anti-Catholic bigots at Bob Jones University and now bashes gays.
Look, as someone who lost friends in the 9/11 terrorist attack, I cannot think of anything more repugnant, more repulsive, more reprehensible, in short, more Republican, than calling patriotic Americans terrorists.
NOVAK: Paul, why don't you lighten up a little bit? This is a matter -- this is a part of the kind of political vocabulary that I've seen for years.
People they say terrorize you. They don't mean literally terrorize them. And I'll tell you, if there's any group that is a terrorist group in politics -- I don't mean they throw bombs -- it's the teachers. Of course they are.
BEGALA: I think it crossed the line.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm going to tell you something
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: To tie it to Bush is a little bit ridiculous.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He should disavow it. His secretary of education says it. Bush should fire him.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But the fact is that Bush had nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, John Kerry calls people unpatriotic from the stump in every single stump speech
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: You know what? I'm not going to call any of these right-winger terrorists. I'm just going to call them what they are, idiots. How about that? Idiots.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: That's a good word.
CARLSON: OK.
Well, last month, the John Edwards campaign ran an ad in South Carolina about job loss. You can see a frame from that ad on the left-hand side of your screen. Notice the man in that ad was black. This month, the Edwards campaign has moved on to Iowa, where it is running the same ad -- well, almost the same ad. In the Ohio version on the right-hand side of the screen, you will notice that the black man has been removed, ejected, told to go away, been replaced by a white man.
This makes sense. South Carolina Democratic primary's voters are about half black. In Ohio, they are mostly white. So, out goes the black guy. He's too controversial. This has happened before. As Jim Rutenberg points out in this morning's "New York Times," John Kerry did exactly the same thing, running a white ad in New Hampshire and Iowa, both mostly white states, and a black ad in South Carolina and Missouri. The defense? Yes, the ads are separate, but they're equal.
BEGALA: That's not the defense. If you read "The New York Times," which I know you did, you would fairly report that, in John Kerry's case, he put a picture of a friend of his, one of his boat mates who is from South Carolina, in the South Carolina ad. He happens to be black.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It has nothing to do with
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Absolutely it's true.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Edwards' ad guy says he found a more evocative photograph.
CARLSON: They didn't want to offend white voters. That's obviously the reason.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Most of the people -- probably most of the people that were losing their jobs in Ohio were white, while most of the people losing their jobs in South Carolina were black.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You all see all of this goofy stuff under there.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... bigotry.
NOVAK: Can I ask you a question, Paul?
BEGALA: Yes, sir.
NOVAK: Paul, I had a column yesterday about Edwards which I found out that, the last two years...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... before he was a lawyer, he cheated Medicare out of $290,000 on a tax shelter. Does that bother you?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I haven't had time to catch up on my right-wing polemics, Bob. I will read the column.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Why don't you report to the U.S. attorney? Your man Ashcroft is in charge, because there's nothing to the charge.
If Social Security checks stopped going out today, nearly half of elderly Americans would be immediately thrown into poverty. Long before that happens, there are two people who will be thrown out of a job, George W. Bush and Alan Greenspan. Back in the 1980s, Alan Greenspan was in charge of the commission that told Congress to make Social Security healthy, they should increase the payroll tax.
In today's "New York Times," Paul Krugman, the most courageous journalist in America today...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: ... and one of the really truly great Americans points out that Greenspan is now calling for cuts in Social Security benefits to help reduce our deficit, which was caused by tax cuts for the rich.
Follow the bouncing ball here. Greenspan's commission increases taxes on the middle class to put money into Social Security. Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy caused such big deficits that we need to do something. Greenspan now says cut Social Security benefits. So middle-class tax increases are paying for upper-class tax cuts. And everyone who depends on Social Security is paying the price. I will tell you who should really pay the price, the Republicans running this charade.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Thank you, Mr. Krugman. You are a distinguished American.
CARLSON: You have figured this out. CARVILLE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, I want to thank you, James, because only you and Paul Krugman have figured out the code at the bottom of this conspiracy. The
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And that is that Republicans want to hurt the poor because they hate them.
CARVILLE: Right.
CARLSON: And they particularly want to hurt the elderly poor. They hate them.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Just on principle.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, no. And only you -- only you and Paul Krugman have figured this out.
CARVILLE: Because, in helping themselves, they throw people into poverty. That's fine, because it's greed and not fair.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Paul Krugman, like you, James...
CARVILLE: He's a great American.
NOVAK: ... is a left-wing demagogue. So you must like him, because you're one, too.
But I will tell you the truth about Social Security. It's a Ponzi scheme. It's going to go bust eventually after we're all dead. And what we've got to do is put it on a means test...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... and cut benefits.
CARVILLE: So you would like to get rid of it?
NOVAK: I would.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... Republican position....
(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: We have an honest Republican at our table, two of them, in fact, Bob and Tucker.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It is a showdown...
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: It is a showdown today across 10 states. Lots of questions will be answered tonight. Will John Edwards be one step closer to getting out of the race? Will John Kerry be one step closer to winning the nomination? And will President Bush be one giant step closer to being former President Bush? I like the sound of that.
And then, another election night for CROSSFIRE and our team. I wonder if James is going to try a new look this time around? I think maybe he will.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
In, well, about a little less than 2 1/2 hours, the polls will close here in Georgia, as well as in Howard Dean's home state of Vermont, two of the 10 states where voters are making their choices known this Super Tuesday. Al Sharpton and Dennis Kucinich notwithstanding, it's really come down to a two-man race, John Kerry vs. John Edwards.
And before today, Senator Kerry had beaten Edwards in 18 primaries. Edwards has defeated Senator Kerry in just one.
Tucker, is this the beginning of the end for John Edwards?
CARLSON: I think it is the end. And I say that with real sadness, because we deserve -- that is, voters in this country -- deserve a real debate.
And because of the shortness of this season, I mean, it hurts us in television, which, of course, bothers me. But, truly, these are candidates who never -- neither one has taken a thoughtful position on gay marriage. They are against it, but for civil unions. I want to hear a real debate on this. I want to know where they stand on Iraq. If the country falls apart July 1, what are we going to do?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And because of the short nature of this primary season, they haven't within forced to answer those questions.
CARVILLE: You know, Tucker, you don't like it. And the whiny "Washington Post" and my good friend John Harris with a whiny piece with a bunch whiny academics.,
Democratic primary voters have come in and they have expressed themselves. And much to the chagrin of the right wing and the pontificating little editorialists and the cocktail party-goers, the Democratic Party has a nominee voted on by Democrats. I know you
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Your position makes no sense, and not for the first time.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... don't like the idea of people going out and voting and picking a nominee. But it's done.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let me -- let me correct -- let me correct Paul saying that this is down a two-man race. It's not a two-man race. This thing was clinched a long time ago.
And I'm going to have to disagree with my friend Tucker, too. I'm not sure I even like primaries at all. I like...
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I like -- I like guys in a closed-door room of the party picking the nominee.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I think Dick Gephardt would have been the nominee. I think he would have been a good nominee. I think that is the way to do it. And I am not sure that the people are really smart enough to pick the nominee.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I said after New Hampshire, the only way John Kerry could lose this thing is if he got caught with a live boy or dead girl. So far, neither has happened and he's going to win it.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Despite a lot of praying on the part of the press.
BEGALA: Although...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I give him credit for him. He's a guest of the federal government right now.
BEGALA: If you -- if you take a look at what happened today in the U.S. Senate, I think this presages the Republican strategy for this interim, at least, until President Bush is in full campaign mode, maybe in the summer.
And that is, they're going to keep trying to drag John Kerry back to debate and vote on divisive social issues.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: That's baloney. It's ridiculous.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That is so unfair.
NOVAK: That's not true.
BEGALA: That's straight from Bill Frist's office in the paper today.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's so unfair, A, to ask that a sitting U.S. senator does his job. That's mean. And, second, to judge him on his votes? That's outrageous.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: They won't give him a vote on the minimum wage. They won't give him a vote on health care. They won't give him a vote on saving Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: They won't give him a vote on jobs. But we're going to be debating every goofy right-wing social engineering project?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Let me get this straight. I'm stunned. With the deficit out of control, with foreign policy on the rocks, with environmental policy in shambles, with the special interests running crazy, you mean the United States Senate is going to spend trying to force John Kerry to vote, as opposed
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... two guys make out in Vermont.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I got you. So they don't care about manufacturing jobs. They just want -- oh, I see. Wow. Whoa. Whoa.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why are you afraid of his votes, James? Why are you afraid of the man's votes?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Why are you afraid of reducing a deficit? Why are you afraid of
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's so stupid.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... foreign policy?
NOVAK: I want to ask you a question. Can I ask you a question, James?
CARVILLE: Sure, any one you want, Bob.
NOVAK: Why -- you will admit that you're a liberal, a left- winger. But why won't you just say -- why won't the Democrats just say that Kerry is the most...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: According to "The National Journal," he's the most liberal member of the Senate. Say he's a liberal. Give...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Give the people a choice.
CARVILLE: I'm saying this. If being for the minimum wage is a liberal, I'm a liberal.
NOVAK: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: John Kerry is a liberal. If being for environmental protection is a liberal, I'm a liberal.
NOVAK: That's right.
CARVILLE: John Kerry's a liberal.
CARLSON: But it's an honest question. Wait, James. No filibustering. Honestly...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: If being for deficit reduction is a liberal, then I'm a liberal and John Kerry is a liberal.
BEGALA: If being for gay civil unions makes you liberal, then Dick Cheney is a liberal.
NOVAK: Oh, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: That's exactly right. Is Dick Cheney a liberal?
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Why won't your -- why won't your
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm telling you the positions that I have that John Kerry has.
NOVAK: Wait a minute, James. Wait a minute. Why won't you admit that he's a liberal? Why are you ashamed of being called a liberal?
CARVILLE: I'm not. I'm saying to you, are your for the minimum wage?
NOVAK: No, I'm just asking you, is he a liberal or not, yes or no, yes or no?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I don't know what he is.
NOVAK: Oh, baloney.
CARVILLE: I can tell you what his positions are.
NOVAK: Baloney.
CARVILLE: You -- you do the thing. You -- you don't believe in Social Security. John Kerry does. That makes you a conservative. It makes John Kerry a liberal.
NOVAK: I'm a right-wing extremist, but...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: OK. Well, what is Bush?
NOVAK: But I'm telling you, John -- John...
CARVILLE: Give me a position.
NOVAK: I'll tell what Bush is. He's a moderate conservative and what Kerry is, is an extreme liberal.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Paul, perhaps you'll be honest now to ask -- as a matter of political analysis, it's an interesting question. He was asked during the debate the other night in New York, you know, all these different groups have rated you the most liberal or one of the most liberal members of the Senate.
Why not just
(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: He had a very thoughtful answer.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He said, for example -- for example...
NOVAK: Baloney.
BEGALA: Do you mind if I just give the guy's answer? What he said in the debate, which I thought was compelling, is, is it liberal to run up the biggest deficit in history? I voted against those deficit policies. Mr. Bush created them. Maybe he's the liberal here. Is it liberal to actually...
CARLSON: I understand.
BEGALA: ... want to preserve and protect the environment.
CARLSON: You're missing the interesting
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Our president -- our current president has so distorted language in his deceit, in his misleading of people. He says, well, I'm a compassionate conservative.
CARLSON: It's all Bush's...
BEGALA: The only thing he's conservative with is his compassion.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: It's all Bush's fault.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But my question is, why -- why -- no, seriously. Nobody's going to take this seriously because you don't have a real answer.
BEGALA: He gave a very thoughtful answer.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Which is, what's wrong with the word liberal? Why don't you say it?
CARVILLE: Again, I'll say it all the time, liberal, liberal, liberal, liberal, liberal. How many times do I have to say it? You say the word. There's nothing wrong, unless, I guess, the FCC is going to shut us down for using the word now or something like that, you know?
CARLSON: OK.
Well, we are on to other deep thoughts, such as, who should be No. 2? Just ahead, we'll debate the best choices to fill the vice president slots for both party tickets.
Right after the break, Wolf Blitzer previews his interview, speaking of, with Vice President Dick Cheney.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer at the CNN Center in Atlanta.
Coming up at the top of the hour, for the Democrats, a huge day for delegates, more than 1,000 at stake on Super Tuesday. In minutes, we'll have new information on what voters are saying as they're leaving the polling stations.
And on this holiest day of the year for so many Iraqis, devastating coordinated attacks kills scores of worshipers. What's behind it? And is it an indication that security in Iraq is getting more unstable?
The answer to those questions, plus a harsh assessment of Haiti's departed leader and his thoughts on other hot topics of the day. You won't want to miss my interview with the vice president, Dick Cheney.
Those stories, much more only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" -- now back to CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: Welcome back.
This fall, the vice presidential debate will be held at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. To drum up some interest, the university commissioned a poll that found Democrats want a Kerry-Edwards ticket more than a Kerry-Hillary ticket. Although Kerry-undecided got the most responses. Among Republicans, the poll found that Colin Powell, believe it or not, is a more popular choice than Dick Cheney on the ticket with President Bush.
James, who is your choice on the Democratic ticket?
CARVILLE: John Edwards. I think -- I think he's run a remarkable campaign. I think he's very skilled. I think he would bring a lot to the ticket. I think a lot of Democrats out there come over to me and said, John Edwards deserved it. I don't have a problem with that at all. I think it would be a strong ticket.
CARLSON: Yes, I actually think Bill Richardson, Governor Bill Richardson, of New Mexico would be better. He's unlike almost everybody who has run for president on the Democratic side so far. He's not a hater. He's a jovial guy. He's decent guy and funny. And he actually has some diplomatic experience, quite a bit of it. And there was evidence he was good at it. I think he'd be a good pick.
BEGALA: He was a great diplomat. He's had a little bit of time as governor, see how he does there. But, yes, he'd be a -- he was a great diplomat. CARLSON: Right.
BEGALA: The guy you've got to mention is Dick Gephardt, OK? He helped himself. He started the campaign with the rap of being the old guard and the old guy. By the end of the campaign, yes, he lost in Iowa, but he excited blue-collar, middle-class white men, people generally defined as Republicans. He could bring a back a lot of those Reagan Democrats in those border and Rust Belt states that a Democrat has to carry. And he's a person of the highest integrity. I would love to see
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I agree, Paul. I think he ought to be secretary of state. That's my...
NOVAK: Paul, my choice is Al Sharpton.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: Because I think it would add diversity to the ticket, a balance.
But since the Democrats are not prepared to put an African- American on their ticket, I think they want somebody who will bring something to the ticket in electoral votes. And the guy who is most certain to bring a state's electoral votes that could be decisive is Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana who is a good guy anyway. He's got -- he's had some good votes for tax cuts and other things. He's my kind of Democrat. And I think he would be a good choice.
BEGALA: Any Democrat who supported the Bush tax cut, as Evan Bayh did, should be disqualified from the ticket. He should have no place on the ticket.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Kicking him out of the church.
BEGALA: Biggest economic disaster in American history and he helped to engineer it. No.
CARVILLE: He made one -- one bad vote should not disqualify
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: How does Kerry raise the tax cut issue and the deficit issue, the economy, if his running mate supported it?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: He's voted for some of Bush's judges, too. He's a good buy.
CARVILLE: He is a good guy.
BEGALA: He's a great guy.
CARVILLE: And he's in a tough state. And, plus, he's got a wonderful wife. And he is a great guy.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: All right, what else do you want?
CARVILLE: This is my off-the-wall pick, but I will tell you what, it would be a good one, Sam Nunn, former United States senator from Georgia, sterling national security credentials.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I could go with -- I could go with -- I could go with him for president.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: It would be a very serious choice. He is a serious man. You know, if he would be as good a campaigner or politician as Edwards would be, no, but would he bring the kind of gravitas against this lightweight we have as president now? Of course he would.
BEGALA: That's a good point.
CARLSON: And speaking of bringing something personality wise, I think Ed Rendell, governor of Pennsylvania, would be good. Again, you have a tone problem here with the Democratic candidates.
All of them so far really have just been filled with vitriol. They're nasty. They're unpleasant. And they're just mean. And Ed Rendell, whatever he is, is not those things.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: How is John Edwards filled with vitriol?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... the happiest, most positive Democratic campaign in history.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Only toward Democrats, Paul. He is ugly.
BEGALA: They've criticized Bush? Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, my panties are in a wad.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Did he go to Bob Jones and stand on that totalitarian
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Did he go to Bob Jones?
CARLSON: Totalitarian?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. He criticizes me. He talks about two Americas. I believe in one America. And I like the America I'm in.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: We believe in capitalism.
And, for that reason, we are going to go to a commercial break. There are some moments that stand out in the usual election night coverage, some of them bourbon-fueled. We relive one of them next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well, the last time the four of us were gathered here at CNN Center in Atlanta, we were watching the votes come in for the November 2002 midterm elections. Those of you too young to remember, it was a blessed night, a historical night. It was a great night. And it was also memorable for James Carville's choice of head gear, which was inspired by his party's abominable showing that night.
What will he be wearing this evening or this November? That's our question.
CARVILLE: Well, Tucker, since that time, as you all know, but our viewers may not, I was named by "People" as like one of the 20 sexiest men alive.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Yes, that's sick. That's sick, James.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And when you have a beautiful face like this, there's no need to cover it with a trash can or anything else. So look at this, America. Pine, yearn, be jealous, Tucker, because...
CARLSON: Pine and yearn? Yes, there's something pretty perverse about that all, James.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I think Tucker is pining, but Bob is yearning. I see a little yearning there, Bob.
NOVAK: I'm yearning for this program to be over.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Which one of your guys is going to be wearing the trash can in November? That's what I want to know.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
James is not from the right, but I am.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I'm Robert Novak.
Stay with CNN for complete coverage of Super Tuesday results. Our special programming starts at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
And join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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Aired March 2, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: millions of voters, hundreds of delegates, 10 states, four candidates, and maybe one winner?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't ever raise that expectation. We're going to just try to do as well as we can.
ANNOUNCER: Is anyone feeling super yet?
Today on a special edition of CROSSFIRE: "America Votes 2004."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: LIVE FROM CNN Election Headquarters in Atlanta, Paul Begala, James Carville, Robert Novak, and Tucker Carlson.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to our super edition of CROSSFIRE on a super network, CNN, on Super Tuesday in a super city of Atlanta. And if you think we're super full of bull, you're super right. And after tonight, it should be super clear who will be the Democratic Party's starting quarterback for the fall campaign, whatever that means.
Of course, nothing is final until the super votes come in. So all for of us will tackle the super best political super briefing in television, our super CROSSFIRE "Political Alert" on Super Tuesday.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: That's the way to go.
NOVAK: That's it.
Senators John Kerry and John Edwards haven't worried about missing lots of votes in the Senate. Kerry the other day admitted he has missed 25 votes. So why did they rush back to the nation's capital today on Super Tuesday to cast their votes in favor of two restrictions on gun owner rights, even though their votes were not needed? What made this so peculiar is that all the Democrats had decided that gun control was a bad issue for them, and probably lost the presidency for Al Gore.
The reason Kerry and Edwards ran back to Washington was that they both are liberals. They just couldn't resist restricting the Second Amendment.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, Bob, tell me this, then. Does President Bush want to restrict the Second Amendment? Because John Kerry and John Edwards have the same position as our president on continuing President Clinton's ban on assault weapons?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let me tell you something. I would like to make one statement about somebody some day, without you answering it with George W. Bush.
BEGALA: Well, George W. Bush says he's for the same position. You say that makes Kerry and Edwards a liberal. Is Bush a liberal?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I frankly am sick of it, because I'm talking about Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Without even beating up on Bush or anyone else here, the fact is people that
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... who support this legislation don't know anything about guns.
CARVILLE: Well, why does the president support it?
CARLSON: The guns classified as assault weapons are purely -- the differences are purely cosmetic.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: They want to take your guns away.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's the bottom line.
BEGALA: Then, do you think the president doesn't know anything about guns?
CARLSON: I think anybody who supports this legislation, including the president, is wrong.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: I think it's ludicrous legislation.
CARVILLE: How many times -- how many times did you criticize McCain and Dole for missing votes in the Senate?
BEGALA: Not often.
Well, President Bush's education secretary has of course called the nation's largest teacher's group -- quote -- "a terrorist organization" -- unquote. Last week, Maurice Greenberg, the CEO of the insurance giant AIG, told a group of fat-cat CEOs -- quote -- "I call the plaintiff's bar terrorists" -- unquote -- now, this from a man whose industry received a taxpayer bailout, so they didn't have to fully honor their policies after the 9/11 terrorist attack, while our nation's trial lawyers represented the 9/11 families for free.
Of course, if our president, Mr. Bush, had half the decency of his father of Bob Dole or any number of good Republicans, he would disavow this viciousness. Perhaps he doesn't do so for the same reason he campaigned among the anti-Catholic bigots at Bob Jones University and now bashes gays.
Look, as someone who lost friends in the 9/11 terrorist attack, I cannot think of anything more repugnant, more repulsive, more reprehensible, in short, more Republican, than calling patriotic Americans terrorists.
NOVAK: Paul, why don't you lighten up a little bit? This is a matter -- this is a part of the kind of political vocabulary that I've seen for years.
People they say terrorize you. They don't mean literally terrorize them. And I'll tell you, if there's any group that is a terrorist group in politics -- I don't mean they throw bombs -- it's the teachers. Of course they are.
BEGALA: I think it crossed the line.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm going to tell you something
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: To tie it to Bush is a little bit ridiculous.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He should disavow it. His secretary of education says it. Bush should fire him.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But the fact is that Bush had nothing to do with it. Meanwhile, John Kerry calls people unpatriotic from the stump in every single stump speech
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: You know what? I'm not going to call any of these right-winger terrorists. I'm just going to call them what they are, idiots. How about that? Idiots.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: That's a good word.
CARLSON: OK.
Well, last month, the John Edwards campaign ran an ad in South Carolina about job loss. You can see a frame from that ad on the left-hand side of your screen. Notice the man in that ad was black. This month, the Edwards campaign has moved on to Iowa, where it is running the same ad -- well, almost the same ad. In the Ohio version on the right-hand side of the screen, you will notice that the black man has been removed, ejected, told to go away, been replaced by a white man.
This makes sense. South Carolina Democratic primary's voters are about half black. In Ohio, they are mostly white. So, out goes the black guy. He's too controversial. This has happened before. As Jim Rutenberg points out in this morning's "New York Times," John Kerry did exactly the same thing, running a white ad in New Hampshire and Iowa, both mostly white states, and a black ad in South Carolina and Missouri. The defense? Yes, the ads are separate, but they're equal.
BEGALA: That's not the defense. If you read "The New York Times," which I know you did, you would fairly report that, in John Kerry's case, he put a picture of a friend of his, one of his boat mates who is from South Carolina, in the South Carolina ad. He happens to be black.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It has nothing to do with
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Absolutely it's true.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Edwards' ad guy says he found a more evocative photograph.
CARLSON: They didn't want to offend white voters. That's obviously the reason.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Most of the people -- probably most of the people that were losing their jobs in Ohio were white, while most of the people losing their jobs in South Carolina were black.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You all see all of this goofy stuff under there.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... bigotry.
NOVAK: Can I ask you a question, Paul?
BEGALA: Yes, sir.
NOVAK: Paul, I had a column yesterday about Edwards which I found out that, the last two years...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... before he was a lawyer, he cheated Medicare out of $290,000 on a tax shelter. Does that bother you?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I haven't had time to catch up on my right-wing polemics, Bob. I will read the column.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Why don't you report to the U.S. attorney? Your man Ashcroft is in charge, because there's nothing to the charge.
If Social Security checks stopped going out today, nearly half of elderly Americans would be immediately thrown into poverty. Long before that happens, there are two people who will be thrown out of a job, George W. Bush and Alan Greenspan. Back in the 1980s, Alan Greenspan was in charge of the commission that told Congress to make Social Security healthy, they should increase the payroll tax.
In today's "New York Times," Paul Krugman, the most courageous journalist in America today...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: ... and one of the really truly great Americans points out that Greenspan is now calling for cuts in Social Security benefits to help reduce our deficit, which was caused by tax cuts for the rich.
Follow the bouncing ball here. Greenspan's commission increases taxes on the middle class to put money into Social Security. Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy caused such big deficits that we need to do something. Greenspan now says cut Social Security benefits. So middle-class tax increases are paying for upper-class tax cuts. And everyone who depends on Social Security is paying the price. I will tell you who should really pay the price, the Republicans running this charade.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Thank you, Mr. Krugman. You are a distinguished American.
CARLSON: You have figured this out. CARVILLE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, I want to thank you, James, because only you and Paul Krugman have figured out the code at the bottom of this conspiracy. The
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And that is that Republicans want to hurt the poor because they hate them.
CARVILLE: Right.
CARLSON: And they particularly want to hurt the elderly poor. They hate them.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Just on principle.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, no. And only you -- only you and Paul Krugman have figured this out.
CARVILLE: Because, in helping themselves, they throw people into poverty. That's fine, because it's greed and not fair.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Paul Krugman, like you, James...
CARVILLE: He's a great American.
NOVAK: ... is a left-wing demagogue. So you must like him, because you're one, too.
But I will tell you the truth about Social Security. It's a Ponzi scheme. It's going to go bust eventually after we're all dead. And what we've got to do is put it on a means test...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... and cut benefits.
CARVILLE: So you would like to get rid of it?
NOVAK: I would.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... Republican position....
(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: We have an honest Republican at our table, two of them, in fact, Bob and Tucker.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It is a showdown...
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: It is a showdown today across 10 states. Lots of questions will be answered tonight. Will John Edwards be one step closer to getting out of the race? Will John Kerry be one step closer to winning the nomination? And will President Bush be one giant step closer to being former President Bush? I like the sound of that.
And then, another election night for CROSSFIRE and our team. I wonder if James is going to try a new look this time around? I think maybe he will.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
In, well, about a little less than 2 1/2 hours, the polls will close here in Georgia, as well as in Howard Dean's home state of Vermont, two of the 10 states where voters are making their choices known this Super Tuesday. Al Sharpton and Dennis Kucinich notwithstanding, it's really come down to a two-man race, John Kerry vs. John Edwards.
And before today, Senator Kerry had beaten Edwards in 18 primaries. Edwards has defeated Senator Kerry in just one.
Tucker, is this the beginning of the end for John Edwards?
CARLSON: I think it is the end. And I say that with real sadness, because we deserve -- that is, voters in this country -- deserve a real debate.
And because of the shortness of this season, I mean, it hurts us in television, which, of course, bothers me. But, truly, these are candidates who never -- neither one has taken a thoughtful position on gay marriage. They are against it, but for civil unions. I want to hear a real debate on this. I want to know where they stand on Iraq. If the country falls apart July 1, what are we going to do?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And because of the short nature of this primary season, they haven't within forced to answer those questions.
CARVILLE: You know, Tucker, you don't like it. And the whiny "Washington Post" and my good friend John Harris with a whiny piece with a bunch whiny academics.,
Democratic primary voters have come in and they have expressed themselves. And much to the chagrin of the right wing and the pontificating little editorialists and the cocktail party-goers, the Democratic Party has a nominee voted on by Democrats. I know you
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Your position makes no sense, and not for the first time.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... don't like the idea of people going out and voting and picking a nominee. But it's done.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let me -- let me correct -- let me correct Paul saying that this is down a two-man race. It's not a two-man race. This thing was clinched a long time ago.
And I'm going to have to disagree with my friend Tucker, too. I'm not sure I even like primaries at all. I like...
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I like -- I like guys in a closed-door room of the party picking the nominee.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I think Dick Gephardt would have been the nominee. I think he would have been a good nominee. I think that is the way to do it. And I am not sure that the people are really smart enough to pick the nominee.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I said after New Hampshire, the only way John Kerry could lose this thing is if he got caught with a live boy or dead girl. So far, neither has happened and he's going to win it.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Despite a lot of praying on the part of the press.
BEGALA: Although...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I give him credit for him. He's a guest of the federal government right now.
BEGALA: If you -- if you take a look at what happened today in the U.S. Senate, I think this presages the Republican strategy for this interim, at least, until President Bush is in full campaign mode, maybe in the summer.
And that is, they're going to keep trying to drag John Kerry back to debate and vote on divisive social issues.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: That's baloney. It's ridiculous.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That is so unfair.
NOVAK: That's not true.
BEGALA: That's straight from Bill Frist's office in the paper today.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's so unfair, A, to ask that a sitting U.S. senator does his job. That's mean. And, second, to judge him on his votes? That's outrageous.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: They won't give him a vote on the minimum wage. They won't give him a vote on health care. They won't give him a vote on saving Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: They won't give him a vote on jobs. But we're going to be debating every goofy right-wing social engineering project?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Let me get this straight. I'm stunned. With the deficit out of control, with foreign policy on the rocks, with environmental policy in shambles, with the special interests running crazy, you mean the United States Senate is going to spend trying to force John Kerry to vote, as opposed
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... two guys make out in Vermont.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I got you. So they don't care about manufacturing jobs. They just want -- oh, I see. Wow. Whoa. Whoa.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why are you afraid of his votes, James? Why are you afraid of the man's votes?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Why are you afraid of reducing a deficit? Why are you afraid of
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: That's so stupid.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... foreign policy?
NOVAK: I want to ask you a question. Can I ask you a question, James?
CARVILLE: Sure, any one you want, Bob.
NOVAK: Why -- you will admit that you're a liberal, a left- winger. But why won't you just say -- why won't the Democrats just say that Kerry is the most...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: According to "The National Journal," he's the most liberal member of the Senate. Say he's a liberal. Give...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Give the people a choice.
CARVILLE: I'm saying this. If being for the minimum wage is a liberal, I'm a liberal.
NOVAK: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: John Kerry is a liberal. If being for environmental protection is a liberal, I'm a liberal.
NOVAK: That's right.
CARVILLE: John Kerry's a liberal.
CARLSON: But it's an honest question. Wait, James. No filibustering. Honestly...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: If being for deficit reduction is a liberal, then I'm a liberal and John Kerry is a liberal.
BEGALA: If being for gay civil unions makes you liberal, then Dick Cheney is a liberal.
NOVAK: Oh, come on.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: That's exactly right. Is Dick Cheney a liberal?
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Why won't your -- why won't your
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm telling you the positions that I have that John Kerry has.
NOVAK: Wait a minute, James. Wait a minute. Why won't you admit that he's a liberal? Why are you ashamed of being called a liberal?
CARVILLE: I'm not. I'm saying to you, are your for the minimum wage?
NOVAK: No, I'm just asking you, is he a liberal or not, yes or no, yes or no?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I don't know what he is.
NOVAK: Oh, baloney.
CARVILLE: I can tell you what his positions are.
NOVAK: Baloney.
CARVILLE: You -- you do the thing. You -- you don't believe in Social Security. John Kerry does. That makes you a conservative. It makes John Kerry a liberal.
NOVAK: I'm a right-wing extremist, but...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: OK. Well, what is Bush?
NOVAK: But I'm telling you, John -- John...
CARVILLE: Give me a position.
NOVAK: I'll tell what Bush is. He's a moderate conservative and what Kerry is, is an extreme liberal.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Paul, perhaps you'll be honest now to ask -- as a matter of political analysis, it's an interesting question. He was asked during the debate the other night in New York, you know, all these different groups have rated you the most liberal or one of the most liberal members of the Senate.
Why not just
(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: He had a very thoughtful answer.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He said, for example -- for example...
NOVAK: Baloney.
BEGALA: Do you mind if I just give the guy's answer? What he said in the debate, which I thought was compelling, is, is it liberal to run up the biggest deficit in history? I voted against those deficit policies. Mr. Bush created them. Maybe he's the liberal here. Is it liberal to actually...
CARLSON: I understand.
BEGALA: ... want to preserve and protect the environment.
CARLSON: You're missing the interesting
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Our president -- our current president has so distorted language in his deceit, in his misleading of people. He says, well, I'm a compassionate conservative.
CARLSON: It's all Bush's...
BEGALA: The only thing he's conservative with is his compassion.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: It's all Bush's fault.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But my question is, why -- why -- no, seriously. Nobody's going to take this seriously because you don't have a real answer.
BEGALA: He gave a very thoughtful answer.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Which is, what's wrong with the word liberal? Why don't you say it?
CARVILLE: Again, I'll say it all the time, liberal, liberal, liberal, liberal, liberal. How many times do I have to say it? You say the word. There's nothing wrong, unless, I guess, the FCC is going to shut us down for using the word now or something like that, you know?
CARLSON: OK.
Well, we are on to other deep thoughts, such as, who should be No. 2? Just ahead, we'll debate the best choices to fill the vice president slots for both party tickets.
Right after the break, Wolf Blitzer previews his interview, speaking of, with Vice President Dick Cheney.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer at the CNN Center in Atlanta.
Coming up at the top of the hour, for the Democrats, a huge day for delegates, more than 1,000 at stake on Super Tuesday. In minutes, we'll have new information on what voters are saying as they're leaving the polling stations.
And on this holiest day of the year for so many Iraqis, devastating coordinated attacks kills scores of worshipers. What's behind it? And is it an indication that security in Iraq is getting more unstable?
The answer to those questions, plus a harsh assessment of Haiti's departed leader and his thoughts on other hot topics of the day. You won't want to miss my interview with the vice president, Dick Cheney.
Those stories, much more only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" -- now back to CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: Welcome back.
This fall, the vice presidential debate will be held at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio. To drum up some interest, the university commissioned a poll that found Democrats want a Kerry-Edwards ticket more than a Kerry-Hillary ticket. Although Kerry-undecided got the most responses. Among Republicans, the poll found that Colin Powell, believe it or not, is a more popular choice than Dick Cheney on the ticket with President Bush.
James, who is your choice on the Democratic ticket?
CARVILLE: John Edwards. I think -- I think he's run a remarkable campaign. I think he's very skilled. I think he would bring a lot to the ticket. I think a lot of Democrats out there come over to me and said, John Edwards deserved it. I don't have a problem with that at all. I think it would be a strong ticket.
CARLSON: Yes, I actually think Bill Richardson, Governor Bill Richardson, of New Mexico would be better. He's unlike almost everybody who has run for president on the Democratic side so far. He's not a hater. He's a jovial guy. He's decent guy and funny. And he actually has some diplomatic experience, quite a bit of it. And there was evidence he was good at it. I think he'd be a good pick.
BEGALA: He was a great diplomat. He's had a little bit of time as governor, see how he does there. But, yes, he'd be a -- he was a great diplomat. CARLSON: Right.
BEGALA: The guy you've got to mention is Dick Gephardt, OK? He helped himself. He started the campaign with the rap of being the old guard and the old guy. By the end of the campaign, yes, he lost in Iowa, but he excited blue-collar, middle-class white men, people generally defined as Republicans. He could bring a back a lot of those Reagan Democrats in those border and Rust Belt states that a Democrat has to carry. And he's a person of the highest integrity. I would love to see
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I agree, Paul. I think he ought to be secretary of state. That's my...
NOVAK: Paul, my choice is Al Sharpton.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: Because I think it would add diversity to the ticket, a balance.
But since the Democrats are not prepared to put an African- American on their ticket, I think they want somebody who will bring something to the ticket in electoral votes. And the guy who is most certain to bring a state's electoral votes that could be decisive is Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana who is a good guy anyway. He's got -- he's had some good votes for tax cuts and other things. He's my kind of Democrat. And I think he would be a good choice.
BEGALA: Any Democrat who supported the Bush tax cut, as Evan Bayh did, should be disqualified from the ticket. He should have no place on the ticket.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Kicking him out of the church.
BEGALA: Biggest economic disaster in American history and he helped to engineer it. No.
CARVILLE: He made one -- one bad vote should not disqualify
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: How does Kerry raise the tax cut issue and the deficit issue, the economy, if his running mate supported it?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: He's voted for some of Bush's judges, too. He's a good buy.
CARVILLE: He is a good guy.
BEGALA: He's a great guy.
CARVILLE: And he's in a tough state. And, plus, he's got a wonderful wife. And he is a great guy.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: All right, what else do you want?
CARVILLE: This is my off-the-wall pick, but I will tell you what, it would be a good one, Sam Nunn, former United States senator from Georgia, sterling national security credentials.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I could go with -- I could go with -- I could go with him for president.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: It would be a very serious choice. He is a serious man. You know, if he would be as good a campaigner or politician as Edwards would be, no, but would he bring the kind of gravitas against this lightweight we have as president now? Of course he would.
BEGALA: That's a good point.
CARLSON: And speaking of bringing something personality wise, I think Ed Rendell, governor of Pennsylvania, would be good. Again, you have a tone problem here with the Democratic candidates.
All of them so far really have just been filled with vitriol. They're nasty. They're unpleasant. And they're just mean. And Ed Rendell, whatever he is, is not those things.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: How is John Edwards filled with vitriol?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... the happiest, most positive Democratic campaign in history.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Only toward Democrats, Paul. He is ugly.
BEGALA: They've criticized Bush? Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, my panties are in a wad.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Did he go to Bob Jones and stand on that totalitarian
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Did he go to Bob Jones?
CARLSON: Totalitarian?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. He criticizes me. He talks about two Americas. I believe in one America. And I like the America I'm in.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: We believe in capitalism.
And, for that reason, we are going to go to a commercial break. There are some moments that stand out in the usual election night coverage, some of them bourbon-fueled. We relive one of them next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well, the last time the four of us were gathered here at CNN Center in Atlanta, we were watching the votes come in for the November 2002 midterm elections. Those of you too young to remember, it was a blessed night, a historical night. It was a great night. And it was also memorable for James Carville's choice of head gear, which was inspired by his party's abominable showing that night.
What will he be wearing this evening or this November? That's our question.
CARVILLE: Well, Tucker, since that time, as you all know, but our viewers may not, I was named by "People" as like one of the 20 sexiest men alive.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Yes, that's sick. That's sick, James.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And when you have a beautiful face like this, there's no need to cover it with a trash can or anything else. So look at this, America. Pine, yearn, be jealous, Tucker, because...
CARLSON: Pine and yearn? Yes, there's something pretty perverse about that all, James.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I think Tucker is pining, but Bob is yearning. I see a little yearning there, Bob.
NOVAK: I'm yearning for this program to be over.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Which one of your guys is going to be wearing the trash can in November? That's what I want to know.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
James is not from the right, but I am.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I'm Robert Novak.
Stay with CNN for complete coverage of Super Tuesday results. Our special programming starts at 7:00 p.m. Eastern.
And join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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