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CNN Crossfire
Going Negative
Aired March 12, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Going negative.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: John Kerry, wrong on taxes, wrong on defense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And firing back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Once again, George Bush is misleading America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Who's right? Who's believable? And whose ad will really make a difference?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
The Bush campaign has moved into phase two of its television advertising strategy. That would be drawing contrast between the president's steady leadership and John Kerry's ideas. Oh, sorry, forgot, he doesn't have any.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, of course, Mr. Bush's ads are just about as honest and accurate as his claims about Iraq were. Only, these WMDs are weapons of massive distortion.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: We will set the record straight for you, though, right after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Earlier this week, President Bush said that John Kerry wanted -- quote -- "to gut the intelligence services" -- unquote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My opponent introduced a bill to cut the overall intelligence budget by $1.5 billion. His bill was so deeply irresponsible that he didn't have a single co-sponsor in the United States Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: The charge is unfair, it is misleading, and it is dishonest. "The Washington Post" reports today that Senator Kerry wanted to trim intelligence by 1 percent over five years, specifically by $1.5 billion, which is about the amount of extra cash that one intelligence agency had squirreled away without the knowledge of the CIA or the Pentagon.
Now, Republicans in Congress wound up cutting 2 1/2 times more than Kerry proposed from the intel budget, reducing it by $3.8 billion. A White House official refused to defend the president's charge saying it was a campaign speech. A Bush campaign spokesman said he'd look into it. And I can't wait.
CARLSON: Talk about a misuse of numbers. Of course, the amount Kerry proposed cutting $1.5 billion is on top of the $3.8 billion. It's not in contrast to.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Second, my problem is, Kerry is instinctively...
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: ... uncomfortable with American authority and power. That's the real problem.
BEGALA: Bush is uncomfortable with honest, accurate facts and truthful statements.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That's what Bush is uncomfortable with. He should just tell the truth. There are real differences. They ought to debate them.
CARLSON: Bush is a liar. That will work. Run on that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I happen to believe he is. It's a good idea.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) CARLSON: Well, earlier this week, John Kerry announced a brand- new endorsement from unnamed foreigners -- quote -- "I've met with foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly," Kerry claimed, "but, boy, they look at you and say, you know, you've got to win. You've got to beat this guy.
Which foreign leaders is Kerry talking about? Well, conveniently, he won't say. After a review of his travel records, "The Washington Times" was unable to find evidence that Kerry has even been out of the country since his campaign began, nor has he met in Washington with any significant foreign representatives that they could find.
So who is it that he's talking about? The only leader on record as preferring John Kerry to George W. Bush, Kim Jong Il of North Korea.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: According to "The Financial Times," Kim is an avid, avid Kerry man.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Radio Pyongyang has reported on the Massachusetts Democrat in -- quote -- "glowing terms." So there you have it, a single Stalinist dwarf in platform shoes, this is the foreign leader John Kerry is talking about.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Look, the reality is, our president can't go anywhere, anywhere, and find an ally. He couldn't even go to Great Britain, our greatest ally...
CARLSON: Actually...
BEGALA: Excuse me.
And give a speech to the Parliament without risk of being heckled.
CARLSON: The reality is...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's the most hated American president we have ever had. And he's not doing his job.
CARLSON: This is a specific claim that he made. It's a bit of a conspiratorial claim.
(BELL RINGING) CARLSON: Well, they're talking, but I can tell you who it is. Who are these people? We have a right to know. It's a big-deal claim.
BEGALA: I'll tell you. There's about 200 million Americans who want a new president. I don't know about foreign leaders.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... foreign leaders.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But a whole lot of Americans.
Well, Congressman Rahm Emanuel of Illinois today called for an investigation into an allegation that the Bush administration misled Congress. Knight Ridder News reports that Richard S. Foster, the chief actuary for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, claimed that it would cost him his job if he were to reveal that the actual cost of Mr. Bush's Medicare prescription drug plan was $156 billion more than Congress was being told.
The truth was withheld from Congress. The Bush bill narrowly passed with the phony lower price tag. Now, we know that Mr. Bush misled us about Saddam's nonexistent ties to terrorists, about his nonexistent nuclear program, and now about the cost of Mr. Bush's prescription drug plan. But of course, that's only misleading us about war and health care, thousands of lives, billions of dollars, not anything important, like sex.
CARLSON: So you're still mad about, huh, that whole sex thing?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Look, I'm so amused by the idea that Democrats, who openly in public advocate a socialist medicine system here that would cost untold trillions, are mad because the prescription drug benefit, which was a terrible idea, by the way -- I'm not with the president on that at all -- but they're mad because it cost more than they thought. Come on.
BEGALA: No, because they pressured this guy into withholding information from Congress.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... conspiracies again.
BEGALA: People go to prison for lying to Congress. No, it's a Knight Ridder story.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: They found a guy's e-mail where he said, I can't tell them the truth about this because they'll fire him. CARLSON: Right, because they'll kill him. Just like they killed Vince Foster. Come on.
BEGALA: They should just sell the truth.
CARLSON: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It's simple.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, in the 24 hours -- speaking of conspiracy theories, in the 24 hours since longtime Democratic hill staffer Susan Lindauer was charged with working to kill American soldiers in Iraq, several of her former employers have stepped forward to claim they never really knew her.
Former Senator Carol Moseley Braun said she didn't even remember Lindauer, who, for a time, was Carol Moseley Braun's chief press secretary. Right, tell me another. But here's the real question. Why did Democrats hire Lindauer in the first place? There was plenty of evidence that she was hostile to the U.S. and seriously unbalanced.
For example, Lindauer once gave an interview in which she explained that secret agents, probably from the CIA, were trying to kill her. This is a quote -- "Someone put acid on the steering wheel of my car. Also, my house was bugged with listening devices and cameras, little red laser lights in the shower vent. And I survived several assassination attempts" -- end quote.
"Little red laser lights in the shower vent," that's a bad sign. And yet Democrat Zoe Lofgren proceeded to hire her anyway. Why did Congressman Lofgren do this? It would be interesting to know. Maybe she'll tell us.
BEGALA: Well, in fact, Christine Glunz, who is the press secretary for Zoe Lofgren, e-mailed me today that the woman worked for Congressman Lofgren for eight weeks two years ago.
CARLSON: Right. Right. But why did she even hire her?
BEGALA: It's really unfair to smear her now because of eight weeks. A couple of weeks, she was an aide in a press office.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Paul, Paul, you're missing it. She hired her after she had made these outrageous statements about Libya and Syria.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Come on.
CARLSON: Talked about little red laser lights in the shower vents.
BEGALA: Come on.
CARLSON: Can you imagine hiring someone like that? It's demented.
BEGALA: For eight weeks.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Then why did she hire her in the first place?
BEGALA: That's just not fair.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why did she hire her in the first place? Maybe she'll come on the show and tell us. I hope she does.
BEGALA: It's not a fair criticism.
CARLSON: Well, the 2004 presidential campaign is assuming all the grace of a Korean Parliament fight. We'll analyze the attack strategies next.
And Vice President Cheney's office has a problem with something he saw on a CROSSFIRE. Stay tuned and find out what is going on.
We'll be right back.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to the live Washington audience, call 202-994-8CNN or e-mail us at CNN@gwu.edu. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The Bush and Kerry campaigns are both on the air and they're both on the attack. A new ad from Senator Kerry answers attacks leveled by President Bush's first negative ad of the season.
In the CROSSFIRE to sort it all out, ace Republican strategist Charlie Black and Kerry campaign senior adviser, my friend Tad Devine -- and my friend Charlie Black.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tad Devine, I want to play a first part of the new Bush ad called "Forward." You're not going to vote for Bush, but I don't think you can disagree with what the president is saying in this spot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now we face a choice. We can go forward with confidence, resolve and hope. Or we can turn back to the dangerous illusion that terrorists are not plotting and outlaw regimes are no threat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: That's the difference right there between Bush and Kerry. You listen to John Kerry and you get the feeling that America is a threat to the world, not the rest of the world is a threat to America, that the Patriot Act is the biggest peril we face.
Why is it that Kerry instinctively takes the side of critics of U.S. policy throughout his career, whether it's the Sandinista government, Americans being mean to Iraq, to Iran, to Saudi Arabia? Why is that, can you tell me?
TAD DEVINE, SENIOR JOHN KERRY CAMPAIGN ADVISER: You know, Tucker, I was very surprised. I saw a dirty four-letter word on that ad, jobs. It's a word I never expected to see in a Bush ad.
CARLSON: You don't want to talk about national security, do you? I can see that.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: No, I'm happy -- I'm happy to talk about national security. But I was surprised to see the word jobs in the Bush ad, because I'll tell you, you talk about a miserable failure, it's his jobs record.
John Kerry has been fighting for this country for 35 years, defending America in war and in peace. And I'll tell you something. He will take a back seat to no one. John Kerry has never run from a fight in his life, ever.
CARLSON: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Then tell you, then why did he vote for the Patriot Act if now he says it's the greatest peril we face in this country? Why did he vote for it, I wonder?
DEVINE: Because the Patriot Act has been abused by this administration.
CARLSON: Oh.
DEVINE: Terribly abused.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He's easily tricked.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: On Iraq, the Patriot Act.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: He wrote provisions of the Patriot Act. I'm proud of them.
BEGALA: Let me bring this in -- well, first, let's start with the Patriot Act.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It's in one of the president's ads. Let me play you another ad from the president that refers to the Patriot Act and to the issue of taxes, two is I think we ought to tease out on the program.
CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: OK.
BEGALA: Take a look at our president. We're giving a little free ad time here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: John Kerry's plan: to pay for new government spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion. On the war on terror...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: OK, we'll get to the war on terror in a second. Just stop it there, $900 billion.
Now, a lot of people have looked at this in the media and they say it's just not true. I've liked at it. What Kerry wants to do is raise taxes only for overpaid talk show hosts and people who make lots and lots of money, the top 1 percent. Why didn't you tell people that, that he only wants to raise taxes on the very rich and not on the middle class?
BLACK: Well, what we did, as a matter of fact, we put out documentation. The $900 billion comes from Senator Kerry's mouth. And, for example "The Washington Post," which is a distinguished media outlet, did an analysis in February and said, without the health plan, Senator Kerry's proposals added up to $165 billion over four years more than his tax increases would get.
Then, Kenneth Thorpe, a Clinton administration health care official, costed out the health care proposal of Senator Kerry at $900 billion over 10 years. Kerry agreed with that on "MacNeil/Lehrer." Yes, that's the correct number. So it doesn't add up. The $900 billion is charitable. It could be $1 trillion.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It is inarguably true that what Kerry has proposed is leaving tax cuts in place for middle-class people, raising taxes only on the very wealthy. Why not -- that may be a good or a bad idea. Why don't we have an honest debate, though, Charlie?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But, actually, I think it's a strategic vulnerability on the Bush campaign's part. Did they not think that Kerry would have an easy answer to that?
BLACK: He doesn't have an easy -- he has no answer to it.
BEGALA: That's simply true.
BLACK: The increase on the tax on the wealthy people will get you $250 billion in new revenue. His health plan alone would cost $900 billion and he's got other spending proposals on education and such to put that spending over $1 trillion.
CARLSON: Well, let's settle -- let's settle this.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: So it's $900 billion unaccounted for. Where's it going to come from? Where is the $900 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tad Devine...
DEVINE: Let's settle it.
CARLSON: Look at an ad. You probably wrote this ad, so you know what's in it, but our audience may not.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: This is John Kerry answering the charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Once again, George Bush is misleading America. John Kerry has never called for a $900 billion tax increase. He wants to cut taxes for the middle class. Doesn't America deserve more from its president than misleading negative ads?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: OK, disregard the whining at the end about the misleading negative ads.
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: He has never called for a $900 billion tax increase. These are reasonable words.
DEVINE: The Associated Press reported that, Tucker.
CARLSON: These are weasel words. It doesn't mean he's not going to institute one, because you're not even disagreeing that his socialist medical plan would cost $900 billion.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: You're not disagreeing, because it's true. He's never called for it. In other words, he doesn't have the courage to just go ahead and say what's true, does he?
DEVINE: Well, that was a quote from the Associated Press. And I think, you know, it was fair and accurate to use and I'm glad we did.
Second, here's the story on taxes. Under John Kerry, 2 percent of the taxpayers in this country would pay more and 98 percent will pay less. OK, that's the hard reality. I know you don't like it, but that's just the fact.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: How is he going to pay for
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: Two vs. 98, OK, 2 vs 98.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: You could take 100 percent of the income of the top 2 percent does and not get $900 billion to pay for this health plan.
DEVINE: That's right.
BLACK: Yet you still say you'll cut the deficit. Where's the money?
DEVINE: Sure. And want me to tell you how? I'll be happy to tell you where it's coming from.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: You know, we're going to do something, something you Republicans have forgotten how to do.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: We're going to balance the budget, OK? I know it's strange territory. We haven't seen it in a while.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So what are you going to cut?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: I'll tell you, we're going to cut -- we're going to begin with corporate welfare.
BLACK: Ah.
DEVINE: As a matter of fact, John McCain and John Kerry have a bill in the Senate right now, two people who are interested in promoting the interests of this nation.
CARLSON: You're going to find $900 billion by cutting corporate welfare? Come on. Come on.
DEVINE: No, we're going to start there. We're going to start there.
And I'll tell, there are tens of billions. He's going to eliminate every provision in the tax code that rewards companies for shipping jobs overseas. You guys call it outsourcing. We call it taking American jobs and sending them abroad.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me move to the second issue
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: That would get you a little bit of money, not $900 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me get to the Patriot Act.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The other attack that our president wages against Senator Kerry is on the Patriot Act. He criticizes Kerry for saying he wants to revamp it or replace it or repeal it.
In fact, the American Conservative Union, no liberal group, is an enormous critic of the Patriot Act. And it's currently being used in Las Vegas right now to prosecute a guy named Michael Galardi who owns some strip clubs. Now, don't you think that's an abuse of the Patriot Act? Isn't the American Conservative Union Right?
BLACK: Let me tell you what...
BEGALA: That John Ashcroft and George W. Bush have misused this very powerful law? BLACK: Let me tell you what the Patriot Act does?
It simply allows law enforcement to apply the same techniques to terrorists that they already could apply to the mafia and drug dealers.
BEGALA: Are strip clubs terrorists?
BLACK: That's all it does. Well, maybe it's mafia or drug dealers.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I think they're patriotic Americans serving a need.
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: But listen to this. Listen to this.
Senator Dianne Feinstein, who voted for the Patriot Act, was concerned about these allegations of trampling on civil liberties. She wrote to the ACLU and said, give me examples of abuses of the Patriot Act. They said they had none, ACLU.
BEGALA: Michael Galardi -- Michael Galardi owns three strip clubs.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: Tell him to get in touch with the ACLU, because they haven't heard about it.
BEGALA: No, I'm just saying
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: I'll give you one. How about when Tom DeLay used it to track down the Texas legislators who left when they were trying to reapportion Texas, OK?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm so glad you raise that, because it does make you again wonder why John Kerry voted for it. But don't ask me.
Ask the right-wing "Washington Post" editorial page.
DEVINE: OK.
CARLSON: Which will, in the end up, endorsing Senator Kerry.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: Oh, I don't think so.
(CROSSTALK) DEVINE: "The Post" will be for Bush.
CARLSON: Here's what they said about Senator John Kerry. It's a pretty serious editorial page. That's not the right quote.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: "I have no ambitions to use 9/11."
CARLSON: From "The Washington Post" editorial -- and I'm quoting now -- "It's not always clear what, if anything, Kerry is committed to. The hedging and subsequent grandstanding on Haiti raises the same question, as do Mr. Kerry's campaign trial straddles on a wide range of issues, trade, No Child Left Behind, etcetera. Where are the bedrock principles that will guild him in office?"
Let's start with one.
DEVINE: Sure.
CARLSON: Is he for Aristide, an illegitimate president who killed a lot of his own people, or is he against him? It's not clear from what he said this week.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: I think it's very clear if you read the front page of "The New York Times" a week ago.
CARLSON: I did every day.
DEVINE: And it said -- he said if he were president he would have taken action, unlike what this president did.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Would he have kept Aristide in office or not?
DEVINE: I'll tell you what would be going on in Haiti right now. Democracy would be in place, instead of -- instead of what's going on, on the street.
CARLSON: Would Aristide be president or not?
DEVINE: He probably would be. He probably would be president.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... defense Aristide.
DEVINE: And you know why? And you know why? Because he would defend democracy, something that this president failed to do in our own hemisphere.
CARLSON: Aristide stole the election.
BEGALA: Let's talk about another foreign policy issue.
BLACK: A thug who stole the election.
BEGALA: Where foreign policy and domestic policy come together. And that is terrorism. Here is what the president, our president, said about the 9/11 issue in terms of his campaign. Here's a promise he made to all Americans, not just Republicans.
Here's a quote from the president of the United States of America. He said, "I have no ambition whatsoever to use this as a political issue." He gave his word. Now here's what "The Wall Street Journal" reports today. "The president's advisers say that the more the campaign is wrapped in 9/11, the better."
Why did Mr. Bush mislead us?
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: He didn't mislead you. The war on...
BEGALA: Why didn't he keep his word?
BLACK: The war on terrorism is the defining event of the presidency of George Bush, not to talk about the war on terror, especially...
BEGALA: Why did he promise
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: Especially when Senator Kerry agrees with his conduct of the war on terror, wants to do away with the Patriot Act, wants us to get a permission slip from the U.N. before we go attack the terrorists abroad, that's a big difference in his campaign.
BEGALA: Why doesn't he keep his word? I thought he was a Texas straight-shooter. Now he's peeing on my boots, telling me it's raining.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BLACK: There's no -- there's one rank-and-file voter in this country who doesn't care about terrorism and doesn't want to know that there are huge differences...
BEGALA: Just answer the question, though. He shouldn't have made the promise, should he? He shouldn't have made the promise.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: 9/11 is one thing, 9/11 is one thing.
BEGALA: Because he thought, when he made the promise, he might be able to run on the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: The war on terror is another thing. John Kerry disagrees with Bush about the war on terror. He wants U.N. permission slips and no Patriot Act.
BLACK: Charlie Black, keep your seat just a second. Tad Devine, hang on just a second.
The Bush team may be forgetting to put some very important video in one of its ads. We will show you which one just after that break.
And then, after that break, who's behind the bombing attacks in Spain? Wolf Blitzer will report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, pictures of sorrow and solidarity, Spaniards paying tribute to those killed in yesterday's train bombings, while investigators race to nail down who's responsible. I'll speak to the Spanish ambassador to the U.S.
An incredible story out of Utah, a stillborn child, a mother charged with murder. We'll tell you what happened.
And men in suits, look at this, brawling. We'll tell you where it happened and why.
Those stories, much more only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" -- now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
It's time for "Rapid Fire," where the questions come even faster than John Kerry's positions on this, that or the other thing.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Our guests with us here in the studio, Kerry campaign senior adviser Tad Devine, Republican strategist Charlie Black.
BEGALA: Charlie, why hasn't the president made an ad of himself in a flight suit landing on that aircraft carrier with a big sign saying "Mission Accomplished"?
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: We've got a lot of ads in the can, Paul. I can't divulge what they all are. Don't worry.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: OK. DEVINE: We've got one of those.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Well, Tad Devine, you just said that Kerry was an Aristide man. What's his favorite thing about Aristide, the fact that he stole the last election, that he deals drugs, the political murders, or was it the anti-Americanism? Why is he supporting him?
DEVINE: Democracy.
CARLSON: Oh, democracy.
BEGALA: Do you think -- Charlie, do you think the president will make an ad featuring his comment in the economic report of the president that he signs that burger-flipping might be considered as manufacturing jobs? Will that be in a Bush ad.
BLACK: Well, I think, if you stay tuned, we'll have more manufacturing jobs Congress the next few months, because we have a lot of economic growth. We have low inflation. The unemployment rate is lower than the average of the last 30 years. The economy is moving in the right direction, as long as we keep our tax cuts and don't have tax increases to kill the recovery.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Tad, a recent Bush campaign ad presents a dark-skinned Arab-looking man as a terrorist. Liberals are saying this is racist. Do you think it is?
DEVINE: I don't know what liberals are saying. I saw the head of the anti -- American Defamation League, I believe, today attack the ad.
Listen, I believe there has to be sensitivity. The president's shown gross insensitivity in both rounds of advertising.
CARLSON: So it's outrageous to suggest that Arabs might be terrorists?
DEVINE: He did it with the images of 9/11. And he may be doing it again. He's been insensitive to the plight of Americans losing their jobs. His advertising seems to be just as insensitive.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Charlie, the latest CNN/Gallup poll says that 57 percent of Americans think the Democrats' attacks on Bush are fair, yet Republicans are squealing like a pig stuck under a gate. When did Republicans become such wimps?
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: Well, we're not whining. We're responding.
(BELL RINGING)
BLACK: And, unfortunately, the whining is coming back from the Kerry camp here, who don't think, after 15 negative ads on Bush, we should run one comparison ad on them.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, I hope both of you keep responding back and forth. I love the back-and-forth. Thank you for coming on the program for a fun debate, Charlie Black from the Republican Party and Tad Devine from the Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Thank you both.
Well, CROSSFIRE, of course is always delighted when anybody tunes in, especially you there at home. But we're even more thrilled with the fact that our vice president apparently has been watching the show, or at least his staff. Today, we're going to let Vice President Cheney's staff fire back about something we said.
Find out what next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Of course, it's not the quantity of the audience. It's the quality of the audience. And we've discovered that people in high places indeed watch CROSSFIRE, even if they don't always agree.
Today, the vice president's office issued a statement taking issue with Paul Begala's comments yesterday that Vice President Cheney still has stock options in his former employer Halliburton. They write: "Paul Begala's comment that Vice President Cheney -- quote -- 'still has 433,000 stock options in Halliburton' is false and misleading. In January 2001, the vice president signed an irrevocable agreement donating to charity all the economic benefits of the options."
And that is it for the statement. It goes on at some length. "The administrative agent has total discretion to decide when to exercise the options without consulting Mr. Cheney." In other words, he has no control over them.
BEGALA: We'd love to have Vice President Cheney on here to debate it himself or a spokesman from his office.
But what I based that on was the Congressional Research Service, not a partisan Democrat like myself. The independent Congressional Research Service looked into this, Mr. Vice president. Here's how CNN reported on Congressional Research Services conclusions -- quote -- "The report says the deferred compensation that Cheney receives from Halliburton, as well as the more than 430,000 stock options he possesses -- quote -- is considered among the ties retained in or linkages to former employers that may represent a continuing financial interest in those employers, which makes them potential conflicts of interest."
That's how the Congressional Research Service, a nonpartisan organization, analyzed Mr. Cheney's ongoing ties to Halliburton.
CARLSON: And here's the bottom-line point. Dick Cheney could own Halliburton and it still would have nothing to do with going to war in Iraq. It's a distraction from the real issues.
BEGALA: I agree with that. I never -- I would never argue we went to war for Halliburton. I don't think they told the truth, but it wasn't for Halliburton.
CARLSON: A lot of liberals do. And that's insane.
BEGALA: But, Mr. Cheney, thank you for watching the program. Come back any time.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again Monday for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. Have a great weekend.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 12, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Going negative.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: John Kerry, wrong on taxes, wrong on defense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: And firing back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Once again, George Bush is misleading America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Who's right? Who's believable? And whose ad will really make a difference?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
The Bush campaign has moved into phase two of its television advertising strategy. That would be drawing contrast between the president's steady leadership and John Kerry's ideas. Oh, sorry, forgot, he doesn't have any.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, of course, Mr. Bush's ads are just about as honest and accurate as his claims about Iraq were. Only, these WMDs are weapons of massive distortion.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: We will set the record straight for you, though, right after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Earlier this week, President Bush said that John Kerry wanted -- quote -- "to gut the intelligence services" -- unquote.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My opponent introduced a bill to cut the overall intelligence budget by $1.5 billion. His bill was so deeply irresponsible that he didn't have a single co-sponsor in the United States Senate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: The charge is unfair, it is misleading, and it is dishonest. "The Washington Post" reports today that Senator Kerry wanted to trim intelligence by 1 percent over five years, specifically by $1.5 billion, which is about the amount of extra cash that one intelligence agency had squirreled away without the knowledge of the CIA or the Pentagon.
Now, Republicans in Congress wound up cutting 2 1/2 times more than Kerry proposed from the intel budget, reducing it by $3.8 billion. A White House official refused to defend the president's charge saying it was a campaign speech. A Bush campaign spokesman said he'd look into it. And I can't wait.
CARLSON: Talk about a misuse of numbers. Of course, the amount Kerry proposed cutting $1.5 billion is on top of the $3.8 billion. It's not in contrast to.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Second, my problem is, Kerry is instinctively...
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: ... uncomfortable with American authority and power. That's the real problem.
BEGALA: Bush is uncomfortable with honest, accurate facts and truthful statements.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That's what Bush is uncomfortable with. He should just tell the truth. There are real differences. They ought to debate them.
CARLSON: Bush is a liar. That will work. Run on that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I happen to believe he is. It's a good idea.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) CARLSON: Well, earlier this week, John Kerry announced a brand- new endorsement from unnamed foreigners -- quote -- "I've met with foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly," Kerry claimed, "but, boy, they look at you and say, you know, you've got to win. You've got to beat this guy.
Which foreign leaders is Kerry talking about? Well, conveniently, he won't say. After a review of his travel records, "The Washington Times" was unable to find evidence that Kerry has even been out of the country since his campaign began, nor has he met in Washington with any significant foreign representatives that they could find.
So who is it that he's talking about? The only leader on record as preferring John Kerry to George W. Bush, Kim Jong Il of North Korea.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: According to "The Financial Times," Kim is an avid, avid Kerry man.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Radio Pyongyang has reported on the Massachusetts Democrat in -- quote -- "glowing terms." So there you have it, a single Stalinist dwarf in platform shoes, this is the foreign leader John Kerry is talking about.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Look, the reality is, our president can't go anywhere, anywhere, and find an ally. He couldn't even go to Great Britain, our greatest ally...
CARLSON: Actually...
BEGALA: Excuse me.
And give a speech to the Parliament without risk of being heckled.
CARLSON: The reality is...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's the most hated American president we have ever had. And he's not doing his job.
CARLSON: This is a specific claim that he made. It's a bit of a conspiratorial claim.
(BELL RINGING) CARLSON: Well, they're talking, but I can tell you who it is. Who are these people? We have a right to know. It's a big-deal claim.
BEGALA: I'll tell you. There's about 200 million Americans who want a new president. I don't know about foreign leaders.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... foreign leaders.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But a whole lot of Americans.
Well, Congressman Rahm Emanuel of Illinois today called for an investigation into an allegation that the Bush administration misled Congress. Knight Ridder News reports that Richard S. Foster, the chief actuary for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, claimed that it would cost him his job if he were to reveal that the actual cost of Mr. Bush's Medicare prescription drug plan was $156 billion more than Congress was being told.
The truth was withheld from Congress. The Bush bill narrowly passed with the phony lower price tag. Now, we know that Mr. Bush misled us about Saddam's nonexistent ties to terrorists, about his nonexistent nuclear program, and now about the cost of Mr. Bush's prescription drug plan. But of course, that's only misleading us about war and health care, thousands of lives, billions of dollars, not anything important, like sex.
CARLSON: So you're still mad about, huh, that whole sex thing?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Look, I'm so amused by the idea that Democrats, who openly in public advocate a socialist medicine system here that would cost untold trillions, are mad because the prescription drug benefit, which was a terrible idea, by the way -- I'm not with the president on that at all -- but they're mad because it cost more than they thought. Come on.
BEGALA: No, because they pressured this guy into withholding information from Congress.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... conspiracies again.
BEGALA: People go to prison for lying to Congress. No, it's a Knight Ridder story.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: They found a guy's e-mail where he said, I can't tell them the truth about this because they'll fire him. CARLSON: Right, because they'll kill him. Just like they killed Vince Foster. Come on.
BEGALA: They should just sell the truth.
CARLSON: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It's simple.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, in the 24 hours -- speaking of conspiracy theories, in the 24 hours since longtime Democratic hill staffer Susan Lindauer was charged with working to kill American soldiers in Iraq, several of her former employers have stepped forward to claim they never really knew her.
Former Senator Carol Moseley Braun said she didn't even remember Lindauer, who, for a time, was Carol Moseley Braun's chief press secretary. Right, tell me another. But here's the real question. Why did Democrats hire Lindauer in the first place? There was plenty of evidence that she was hostile to the U.S. and seriously unbalanced.
For example, Lindauer once gave an interview in which she explained that secret agents, probably from the CIA, were trying to kill her. This is a quote -- "Someone put acid on the steering wheel of my car. Also, my house was bugged with listening devices and cameras, little red laser lights in the shower vent. And I survived several assassination attempts" -- end quote.
"Little red laser lights in the shower vent," that's a bad sign. And yet Democrat Zoe Lofgren proceeded to hire her anyway. Why did Congressman Lofgren do this? It would be interesting to know. Maybe she'll tell us.
BEGALA: Well, in fact, Christine Glunz, who is the press secretary for Zoe Lofgren, e-mailed me today that the woman worked for Congressman Lofgren for eight weeks two years ago.
CARLSON: Right. Right. But why did she even hire her?
BEGALA: It's really unfair to smear her now because of eight weeks. A couple of weeks, she was an aide in a press office.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Paul, Paul, you're missing it. She hired her after she had made these outrageous statements about Libya and Syria.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Come on.
CARLSON: Talked about little red laser lights in the shower vents.
BEGALA: Come on.
CARLSON: Can you imagine hiring someone like that? It's demented.
BEGALA: For eight weeks.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Then why did she hire her in the first place?
BEGALA: That's just not fair.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why did she hire her in the first place? Maybe she'll come on the show and tell us. I hope she does.
BEGALA: It's not a fair criticism.
CARLSON: Well, the 2004 presidential campaign is assuming all the grace of a Korean Parliament fight. We'll analyze the attack strategies next.
And Vice President Cheney's office has a problem with something he saw on a CROSSFIRE. Stay tuned and find out what is going on.
We'll be right back.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to the live Washington audience, call 202-994-8CNN or e-mail us at CNN@gwu.edu. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The Bush and Kerry campaigns are both on the air and they're both on the attack. A new ad from Senator Kerry answers attacks leveled by President Bush's first negative ad of the season.
In the CROSSFIRE to sort it all out, ace Republican strategist Charlie Black and Kerry campaign senior adviser, my friend Tad Devine -- and my friend Charlie Black.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tad Devine, I want to play a first part of the new Bush ad called "Forward." You're not going to vote for Bush, but I don't think you can disagree with what the president is saying in this spot.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now we face a choice. We can go forward with confidence, resolve and hope. Or we can turn back to the dangerous illusion that terrorists are not plotting and outlaw regimes are no threat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: That's the difference right there between Bush and Kerry. You listen to John Kerry and you get the feeling that America is a threat to the world, not the rest of the world is a threat to America, that the Patriot Act is the biggest peril we face.
Why is it that Kerry instinctively takes the side of critics of U.S. policy throughout his career, whether it's the Sandinista government, Americans being mean to Iraq, to Iran, to Saudi Arabia? Why is that, can you tell me?
TAD DEVINE, SENIOR JOHN KERRY CAMPAIGN ADVISER: You know, Tucker, I was very surprised. I saw a dirty four-letter word on that ad, jobs. It's a word I never expected to see in a Bush ad.
CARLSON: You don't want to talk about national security, do you? I can see that.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: No, I'm happy -- I'm happy to talk about national security. But I was surprised to see the word jobs in the Bush ad, because I'll tell you, you talk about a miserable failure, it's his jobs record.
John Kerry has been fighting for this country for 35 years, defending America in war and in peace. And I'll tell you something. He will take a back seat to no one. John Kerry has never run from a fight in his life, ever.
CARLSON: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Then tell you, then why did he vote for the Patriot Act if now he says it's the greatest peril we face in this country? Why did he vote for it, I wonder?
DEVINE: Because the Patriot Act has been abused by this administration.
CARLSON: Oh.
DEVINE: Terribly abused.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He's easily tricked.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: On Iraq, the Patriot Act.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: He wrote provisions of the Patriot Act. I'm proud of them.
BEGALA: Let me bring this in -- well, first, let's start with the Patriot Act.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It's in one of the president's ads. Let me play you another ad from the president that refers to the Patriot Act and to the issue of taxes, two is I think we ought to tease out on the program.
CHARLIE BLACK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: OK.
BEGALA: Take a look at our president. We're giving a little free ad time here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NARRATOR: John Kerry's plan: to pay for new government spending, raise taxes by at least $900 billion. On the war on terror...
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: OK, we'll get to the war on terror in a second. Just stop it there, $900 billion.
Now, a lot of people have looked at this in the media and they say it's just not true. I've liked at it. What Kerry wants to do is raise taxes only for overpaid talk show hosts and people who make lots and lots of money, the top 1 percent. Why didn't you tell people that, that he only wants to raise taxes on the very rich and not on the middle class?
BLACK: Well, what we did, as a matter of fact, we put out documentation. The $900 billion comes from Senator Kerry's mouth. And, for example "The Washington Post," which is a distinguished media outlet, did an analysis in February and said, without the health plan, Senator Kerry's proposals added up to $165 billion over four years more than his tax increases would get.
Then, Kenneth Thorpe, a Clinton administration health care official, costed out the health care proposal of Senator Kerry at $900 billion over 10 years. Kerry agreed with that on "MacNeil/Lehrer." Yes, that's the correct number. So it doesn't add up. The $900 billion is charitable. It could be $1 trillion.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It is inarguably true that what Kerry has proposed is leaving tax cuts in place for middle-class people, raising taxes only on the very wealthy. Why not -- that may be a good or a bad idea. Why don't we have an honest debate, though, Charlie?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But, actually, I think it's a strategic vulnerability on the Bush campaign's part. Did they not think that Kerry would have an easy answer to that?
BLACK: He doesn't have an easy -- he has no answer to it.
BEGALA: That's simply true.
BLACK: The increase on the tax on the wealthy people will get you $250 billion in new revenue. His health plan alone would cost $900 billion and he's got other spending proposals on education and such to put that spending over $1 trillion.
CARLSON: Well, let's settle -- let's settle this.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: So it's $900 billion unaccounted for. Where's it going to come from? Where is the $900 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tad Devine...
DEVINE: Let's settle it.
CARLSON: Look at an ad. You probably wrote this ad, so you know what's in it, but our audience may not.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: This is John Kerry answering the charge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: Once again, George Bush is misleading America. John Kerry has never called for a $900 billion tax increase. He wants to cut taxes for the middle class. Doesn't America deserve more from its president than misleading negative ads?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: OK, disregard the whining at the end about the misleading negative ads.
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: He has never called for a $900 billion tax increase. These are reasonable words.
DEVINE: The Associated Press reported that, Tucker.
CARLSON: These are weasel words. It doesn't mean he's not going to institute one, because you're not even disagreeing that his socialist medical plan would cost $900 billion.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: You're not disagreeing, because it's true. He's never called for it. In other words, he doesn't have the courage to just go ahead and say what's true, does he?
DEVINE: Well, that was a quote from the Associated Press. And I think, you know, it was fair and accurate to use and I'm glad we did.
Second, here's the story on taxes. Under John Kerry, 2 percent of the taxpayers in this country would pay more and 98 percent will pay less. OK, that's the hard reality. I know you don't like it, but that's just the fact.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: How is he going to pay for
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: Two vs. 98, OK, 2 vs 98.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: You could take 100 percent of the income of the top 2 percent does and not get $900 billion to pay for this health plan.
DEVINE: That's right.
BLACK: Yet you still say you'll cut the deficit. Where's the money?
DEVINE: Sure. And want me to tell you how? I'll be happy to tell you where it's coming from.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: You know, we're going to do something, something you Republicans have forgotten how to do.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: We're going to balance the budget, OK? I know it's strange territory. We haven't seen it in a while.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So what are you going to cut?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: I'll tell you, we're going to cut -- we're going to begin with corporate welfare.
BLACK: Ah.
DEVINE: As a matter of fact, John McCain and John Kerry have a bill in the Senate right now, two people who are interested in promoting the interests of this nation.
CARLSON: You're going to find $900 billion by cutting corporate welfare? Come on. Come on.
DEVINE: No, we're going to start there. We're going to start there.
And I'll tell, there are tens of billions. He's going to eliminate every provision in the tax code that rewards companies for shipping jobs overseas. You guys call it outsourcing. We call it taking American jobs and sending them abroad.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me move to the second issue
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: That would get you a little bit of money, not $900 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me get to the Patriot Act.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The other attack that our president wages against Senator Kerry is on the Patriot Act. He criticizes Kerry for saying he wants to revamp it or replace it or repeal it.
In fact, the American Conservative Union, no liberal group, is an enormous critic of the Patriot Act. And it's currently being used in Las Vegas right now to prosecute a guy named Michael Galardi who owns some strip clubs. Now, don't you think that's an abuse of the Patriot Act? Isn't the American Conservative Union Right?
BLACK: Let me tell you what...
BEGALA: That John Ashcroft and George W. Bush have misused this very powerful law? BLACK: Let me tell you what the Patriot Act does?
It simply allows law enforcement to apply the same techniques to terrorists that they already could apply to the mafia and drug dealers.
BEGALA: Are strip clubs terrorists?
BLACK: That's all it does. Well, maybe it's mafia or drug dealers.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I think they're patriotic Americans serving a need.
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: But listen to this. Listen to this.
Senator Dianne Feinstein, who voted for the Patriot Act, was concerned about these allegations of trampling on civil liberties. She wrote to the ACLU and said, give me examples of abuses of the Patriot Act. They said they had none, ACLU.
BEGALA: Michael Galardi -- Michael Galardi owns three strip clubs.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: Tell him to get in touch with the ACLU, because they haven't heard about it.
BEGALA: No, I'm just saying
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: I'll give you one. How about when Tom DeLay used it to track down the Texas legislators who left when they were trying to reapportion Texas, OK?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm so glad you raise that, because it does make you again wonder why John Kerry voted for it. But don't ask me.
Ask the right-wing "Washington Post" editorial page.
DEVINE: OK.
CARLSON: Which will, in the end up, endorsing Senator Kerry.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: Oh, I don't think so.
(CROSSTALK) DEVINE: "The Post" will be for Bush.
CARLSON: Here's what they said about Senator John Kerry. It's a pretty serious editorial page. That's not the right quote.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: "I have no ambitions to use 9/11."
CARLSON: From "The Washington Post" editorial -- and I'm quoting now -- "It's not always clear what, if anything, Kerry is committed to. The hedging and subsequent grandstanding on Haiti raises the same question, as do Mr. Kerry's campaign trial straddles on a wide range of issues, trade, No Child Left Behind, etcetera. Where are the bedrock principles that will guild him in office?"
Let's start with one.
DEVINE: Sure.
CARLSON: Is he for Aristide, an illegitimate president who killed a lot of his own people, or is he against him? It's not clear from what he said this week.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: I think it's very clear if you read the front page of "The New York Times" a week ago.
CARLSON: I did every day.
DEVINE: And it said -- he said if he were president he would have taken action, unlike what this president did.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Would he have kept Aristide in office or not?
DEVINE: I'll tell you what would be going on in Haiti right now. Democracy would be in place, instead of -- instead of what's going on, on the street.
CARLSON: Would Aristide be president or not?
DEVINE: He probably would be. He probably would be president.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... defense Aristide.
DEVINE: And you know why? And you know why? Because he would defend democracy, something that this president failed to do in our own hemisphere.
CARLSON: Aristide stole the election.
BEGALA: Let's talk about another foreign policy issue.
BLACK: A thug who stole the election.
BEGALA: Where foreign policy and domestic policy come together. And that is terrorism. Here is what the president, our president, said about the 9/11 issue in terms of his campaign. Here's a promise he made to all Americans, not just Republicans.
Here's a quote from the president of the United States of America. He said, "I have no ambition whatsoever to use this as a political issue." He gave his word. Now here's what "The Wall Street Journal" reports today. "The president's advisers say that the more the campaign is wrapped in 9/11, the better."
Why did Mr. Bush mislead us?
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: He didn't mislead you. The war on...
BEGALA: Why didn't he keep his word?
BLACK: The war on terrorism is the defining event of the presidency of George Bush, not to talk about the war on terror, especially...
BEGALA: Why did he promise
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: Especially when Senator Kerry agrees with his conduct of the war on terror, wants to do away with the Patriot Act, wants us to get a permission slip from the U.N. before we go attack the terrorists abroad, that's a big difference in his campaign.
BEGALA: Why doesn't he keep his word? I thought he was a Texas straight-shooter. Now he's peeing on my boots, telling me it's raining.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BLACK: There's no -- there's one rank-and-file voter in this country who doesn't care about terrorism and doesn't want to know that there are huge differences...
BEGALA: Just answer the question, though. He shouldn't have made the promise, should he? He shouldn't have made the promise.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: 9/11 is one thing, 9/11 is one thing.
BEGALA: Because he thought, when he made the promise, he might be able to run on the economy.
(CROSSTALK)
BLACK: The war on terror is another thing. John Kerry disagrees with Bush about the war on terror. He wants U.N. permission slips and no Patriot Act.
BLACK: Charlie Black, keep your seat just a second. Tad Devine, hang on just a second.
The Bush team may be forgetting to put some very important video in one of its ads. We will show you which one just after that break.
And then, after that break, who's behind the bombing attacks in Spain? Wolf Blitzer will report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, pictures of sorrow and solidarity, Spaniards paying tribute to those killed in yesterday's train bombings, while investigators race to nail down who's responsible. I'll speak to the Spanish ambassador to the U.S.
An incredible story out of Utah, a stillborn child, a mother charged with murder. We'll tell you what happened.
And men in suits, look at this, brawling. We'll tell you where it happened and why.
Those stories, much more only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" -- now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
It's time for "Rapid Fire," where the questions come even faster than John Kerry's positions on this, that or the other thing.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Our guests with us here in the studio, Kerry campaign senior adviser Tad Devine, Republican strategist Charlie Black.
BEGALA: Charlie, why hasn't the president made an ad of himself in a flight suit landing on that aircraft carrier with a big sign saying "Mission Accomplished"?
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: We've got a lot of ads in the can, Paul. I can't divulge what they all are. Don't worry.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: OK. DEVINE: We've got one of those.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Well, Tad Devine, you just said that Kerry was an Aristide man. What's his favorite thing about Aristide, the fact that he stole the last election, that he deals drugs, the political murders, or was it the anti-Americanism? Why is he supporting him?
DEVINE: Democracy.
CARLSON: Oh, democracy.
BEGALA: Do you think -- Charlie, do you think the president will make an ad featuring his comment in the economic report of the president that he signs that burger-flipping might be considered as manufacturing jobs? Will that be in a Bush ad.
BLACK: Well, I think, if you stay tuned, we'll have more manufacturing jobs Congress the next few months, because we have a lot of economic growth. We have low inflation. The unemployment rate is lower than the average of the last 30 years. The economy is moving in the right direction, as long as we keep our tax cuts and don't have tax increases to kill the recovery.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Tad, a recent Bush campaign ad presents a dark-skinned Arab-looking man as a terrorist. Liberals are saying this is racist. Do you think it is?
DEVINE: I don't know what liberals are saying. I saw the head of the anti -- American Defamation League, I believe, today attack the ad.
Listen, I believe there has to be sensitivity. The president's shown gross insensitivity in both rounds of advertising.
CARLSON: So it's outrageous to suggest that Arabs might be terrorists?
DEVINE: He did it with the images of 9/11. And he may be doing it again. He's been insensitive to the plight of Americans losing their jobs. His advertising seems to be just as insensitive.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Charlie, the latest CNN/Gallup poll says that 57 percent of Americans think the Democrats' attacks on Bush are fair, yet Republicans are squealing like a pig stuck under a gate. When did Republicans become such wimps?
(LAUGHTER)
BLACK: Well, we're not whining. We're responding.
(BELL RINGING)
BLACK: And, unfortunately, the whining is coming back from the Kerry camp here, who don't think, after 15 negative ads on Bush, we should run one comparison ad on them.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, I hope both of you keep responding back and forth. I love the back-and-forth. Thank you for coming on the program for a fun debate, Charlie Black from the Republican Party and Tad Devine from the Democrats.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Thank you both.
Well, CROSSFIRE, of course is always delighted when anybody tunes in, especially you there at home. But we're even more thrilled with the fact that our vice president apparently has been watching the show, or at least his staff. Today, we're going to let Vice President Cheney's staff fire back about something we said.
Find out what next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Of course, it's not the quantity of the audience. It's the quality of the audience. And we've discovered that people in high places indeed watch CROSSFIRE, even if they don't always agree.
Today, the vice president's office issued a statement taking issue with Paul Begala's comments yesterday that Vice President Cheney still has stock options in his former employer Halliburton. They write: "Paul Begala's comment that Vice President Cheney -- quote -- 'still has 433,000 stock options in Halliburton' is false and misleading. In January 2001, the vice president signed an irrevocable agreement donating to charity all the economic benefits of the options."
And that is it for the statement. It goes on at some length. "The administrative agent has total discretion to decide when to exercise the options without consulting Mr. Cheney." In other words, he has no control over them.
BEGALA: We'd love to have Vice President Cheney on here to debate it himself or a spokesman from his office.
But what I based that on was the Congressional Research Service, not a partisan Democrat like myself. The independent Congressional Research Service looked into this, Mr. Vice president. Here's how CNN reported on Congressional Research Services conclusions -- quote -- "The report says the deferred compensation that Cheney receives from Halliburton, as well as the more than 430,000 stock options he possesses -- quote -- is considered among the ties retained in or linkages to former employers that may represent a continuing financial interest in those employers, which makes them potential conflicts of interest."
That's how the Congressional Research Service, a nonpartisan organization, analyzed Mr. Cheney's ongoing ties to Halliburton.
CARLSON: And here's the bottom-line point. Dick Cheney could own Halliburton and it still would have nothing to do with going to war in Iraq. It's a distraction from the real issues.
BEGALA: I agree with that. I never -- I would never argue we went to war for Halliburton. I don't think they told the truth, but it wasn't for Halliburton.
CARLSON: A lot of liberals do. And that's insane.
BEGALA: But, Mr. Cheney, thank you for watching the program. Come back any time.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again Monday for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. Have a great weekend.
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