Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Crossfire
Dick Cheney Goes on Offense
Aired April 26, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Dick Cheney goes on offense, attacking John Kerry's record on defense. But John Kerry and friends are firing back at the vice president.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: We remember Dick Cheney and he is the last guy that should be lecturing John Kerry about how to defend America.
ANNOUNCER: Plus, a professional matchmaker's pick for Kerry's running mate.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Tucker Carlson.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
I admit, Dick Cheney made his case today, when it comes to Republican mud-slinging, he certainly deserves a place up there with Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Actually, it is the message, not the messenger. And John Kerry's record on defense and national security is fascinating and well worth exploring in some detail.
And we will, right after the best political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Well, at the march on the National Mall yesterday, "The Washington Post" reports that actress Cybill Shepherd was spotted carrying a sign that read -- quote -- "Too bad John Ashcroft's mother didn't believe in abortion."
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: In other words, John Ashcroft would be better off dead. Well, you have to give Shepherd credit for directness, although almost no one said it out loud, yesterday's march was indeed about abortion, not health care or the Constitution or choice, whatever the hell that is, but abortion. And abortion is about killing.
Polite people hate it when you say that, but it's true. Abortion is the act of preventing a child from being born. That's what it is.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: There is no other honest way to describe it. So cheers to Cybill Shepherd. She has summed up her movement perfectly in a single sign. What a hater. What a
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You know what? You know, I know this offends you, to have a million expressing their constitutional right to free speech.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You know what? It wasn't about free speech, James. It's about abortion.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I know you and Ari Fleischer who say, you know, women
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It's not about free speech. It's about the act of abortion. Defend abortion or not.
CARVILLE: It's about outlawing...
CARLSON: No, it's about abortion.
CARVILLE: It's about outlawing what a woman does and women don't want you to tell them what to do. It's that simple.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Why can't you just tell the truth?
CARVILLE: That's why these women know that.
CARLSON: You can't even bear to talk about it, can you?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: There we go. All right.
George W. Bush has picked up an endorsement you're not likely to hear about on Rush Limbaugh's radio show or the Fox News Channel. However, we at CROSSFIRE are proud to bring you all of the important political news. So here it is. George W. Bush endorsed by none other than al Qaeda.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: The statement from al Qaeda following the Madrid bombings reported in this week's "New York Review of Books" said the organization hoped George Bush would win reelection -- quote -- "because he acts with force, rather than wisdom or shrewdness and his religious fanaticism will rouse our Islamic nation, has been shown."
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: So the next time the Republicans begin attacking John Kerry because of some silly Hollywood endorsement, remind them that George W. Bush is al Qaeda's candidate. And I for one don't intend to vote with al Qaeda in this election.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know, I have to say, that is the -- that is so dumb. That is so dumb that I'm not even offended by it. I haven't even thought deeply enough to be offended.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I will say, though, criticize Bush about anything you want, but I think he is resolute in a way that Kerry is not in fighting terrorism. And I think in the end, actually, that al Qaeda endorsed him?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Your lips should be burning with the stupidity.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Who cares? Al Qaeda is evil.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... Web site. I'm saying this. People that know the war on terrorism understand that our invasion of Iraq has done nothing but help al Qaeda. And that is a damn shame.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: And it is a shame. And it is the policy. Look, do I think it's a silly thing? I just bring it up because you love to talk about Cybill Shepherd.
(BELL RINGING) CARVILLE: And so I'll just talk about this.
CARLSON: Actually...
CARVILLE: But the truth is, they have weakened our country
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... terrorism.
CARLSON: Whenever, whenever, James, you say "the truth," is my mind short-circuits.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Right, that is the truth. You wouldn't know what it is. That's why.
CARLSON: This morning's "New York Times" carries a terrifying story about Muslim clerics in Europe. Various Islamic leaders there are quoted praising Osama bin Laden and the 9/11 hijackers known there as -- quote -- "the magnificent 19" and calling for violent jihad against the West.
Openly, says "The Times," they say they would like to see Prime Minister Tony Blair dead or deposed and an Islamic flag hanging outside No. 10 Downing Street. In other words, Muslim fascists publicly espouse violence against the government of Great Britain and nobody does anything about it. The would-be terrorists aren't thrown in jail. The foreign-born among them aren't even deported.
There comes a point when a nation becomes so broad-minded that it loses the will to defend itself. Healthy societies are endlessly tolerant of self-expression, but they are utterly, avowedly, aggressively intolerant of authoritarian elements that seek to destroy them. Americans still understand this. Let's hope that, unlike Europe, we never forget.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Well, you know, I have no idea what -- I have no idea what British law is, but I do know what American law is. And if it's against the law, you ought to do that. But I don't agree with Ari Fleischer and people like you that says Americans need
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know what the hell you're talking about, James.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Ari Fleischer, the president's press secretary.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You're talking about the (CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... Bill Maher thing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: If you stand up in the street -- if you're an Islamic cleric, stand up and say, I want to overthrow this government by force
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: This war in Iraq, we were lied to get into it. We have no plan to get out of it.
CARLSON: What does that have to do with anything?
CARVILLE: It's a disaster.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Ari Fleischer tells me to watch what I say and do. I don't watch what I say and do.
CARLSON: Right.
CARVILLE: And the free, the patriot -- correct police are not going to shut James Carville up.
CARLSON: What are you talking about? You've gone insane again.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice recently went up to the Capitol to brief members of Congress on Iraq. Coming out of the meeting, Senator Rick "Man on Dog" Santorum of Pennsylvania said Rice...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Rice gave the senators -- quote -- "a very upbeat" report on how things are going there and the progress that's being made. We've got people shooting at our troops from mosques, suicide boaters managing to attack the country's oil terminals. We have no idea how who we're going to hand over power to. And the administration is giving an upbeat report.
There are only three possible ways to explain their depths of this administration's delusion on Iraq. Either they're liars or they're suffering some kind of mental incapacity or they're taking illegal drugs.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: I can only hope that they're just as upbeat and feel they're making just as much progress in their reelection campaign, because, if that's the case, John Kerry is going to win in a landslide.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know what? I actually think Kerry's pretty smart. I don't think Bush is in the strongest position right now. But it turns out that you can't be elected president simple political by whining about mistakes. You have to provide a vision for what you would do. And John Kerry hasn't done that, James. Instead, he stands around.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: What's upbeat? I'm asking you a question. I'm asking you a question. What's upbeat? What's upbeat? What is going good there?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: What's upbeat about Iraq? Not very much. But America's commitment...
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... to making it...
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: ... to making it a better country is upbeat, James. And I'm honest enough to say that.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... Condoleezza Rice and Rick "Man on Dog"...
(BARKING)
CARVILLE: ... Santorum have something to say about that.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Is it time for John Kerry to pick a running mate? Is it time for James Carville to be heavily medicated?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Kerry came under fire from Vice President Dick Cheney today for his shaky record on defense. And the best person he could find to cover his flank, DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe, the general himself. We'll put Cheney vs. Kerry in the CROSSFIRE next.
And speaking of a vice president, should Kerry turn to this matchmaking site for advice on his choice? Of course not. But we'll tell you about it anyway.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Get ahead of the CROSSFIRE. Sign up for CROSSFIRE's daily "Political Alert" e-mail. You'll get a preview of each day's show, plus an inside look at the day's political headlines. Just go to CNN.com/CROSSFIRE and sign up today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: The Bush administration has bankrupt the county, then walked away from the war on terrorism to make a mess in Iraq. With a record like that, it's no wonder people like Vice President Cheney resort to throwing mud at John Kerry.
In the CROSSFIRE today, Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence and D.C. Democratic Delegate to the Congress of the United States, Eleanor Holmes Norton.
REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Delegate Norton, thanks for joining us.
I want to read you something Dick Cheney said today about John Kerry that strikes me as irrefutable and kind of amusing, too. Here's what he said: "Just eight days ago, Senator Kerry said that Former President George Bush had done -- quote -- 'a brilliant job of building the alliance.' Having served as director of defense under former President Bush, I appreciate Senator Kerry's comment. But I find it odd that Senator Kerry is now commending an alliance he didn't want to build for a purpose he didn't support."
He, of course, voted against that Gulf War. Meanwhile, Kerry, of course, voted for the Patriot Act. Now he denounces it. He voted for the war in Iraq. Now he denounces it. It seems to me Kerry only supports things he voted against and vice-versa. Notice the pattern?
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), WASHINGTON, D.C. DELEGATE: You know, you're showing the president's same pattern of not understanding nuance. That is to say, things are either black or white.
CARLSON: Without attacking me, maybe you can answer the question.
NORTON: Well, I'm answering the question. I'm answering the question.
CARVILLE: Right. Thank you. Thank you. Just you go ahead and answer and don't let him
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Thank you.
NORTON: You know, the fact is the world is more complicated than George W. Bush realizes and that's dangerous.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You obviously you didn't hear my question and got right to your talking point.
NORTON: You obviously didn't hear my answer. You don't want to hear my answer.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, no, let me ask my question. And it is this. John Kerry voted against that Gulf War and now he is holding it up as a brilliant job. And my question is, why?
NORTON: Well, I'll tell you exactly why.
I was against the Gulf War. When I look at what has happened since, in retrospect, when I see what Saddam was and is, I'm willing to say, you know what? What Colin Powell and I thought then was not true. Now I know what should have been done and the next time I'm going to take another look at it. How could you possibly be against somebody looking at what he did in the past, seeing that there were some mistakes in how he viewed it and correcting them in the future?
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You cast the vote, not me. I don't know. That's my question.
NORTON: Well, that's the answer. That's the answer.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman, as you know, one of the attacks on Senator Kerry by Vice President Cheney is that he's weak on defense. Senator John McCain said that was a bunch of hogwash. And on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," George Stephanopoulos asked Senator Hagel, also a war hero and a Republican, as Senator McCain is.
And I want to show you what Senator Hagel said, echoing the sentiments of Senator McCain: "I tend to agree with John McCain on this. The facts just don't measure up to the rhetoric. You can take a guy like John Kerry, who has been in the Senate for 19 years and go through that voting record. You can take it with Biden, Hagel or any of us and pick out different votes and then try to manufacture something around this."
Why are these Republican people who served in the military, conservatives and everything, saying that this attack on -- who know John Kerry -- saying it's poppycock. And then you've got people like Cheney, who got us into a war with no plan to get us out of, going around attacking John Kerry? I don't understand it. I'm confused. Maybe you can tell me how Senator Hagel and Senator McCain are wrong.
PENCE: I'm sure I can, James. We'll clear it all up for you.
I think there's no question that John McCain and Senator Hagel and to no less extent John Kerry are men who served their country in uniform, people that we should listen to, we should admire what they've done for our country. And in each case -- and I think my two colleagues on the Senate on the Republican side would agree with me -- we are responsible those of us that are legislators with the decisions that we make.
As President Kennedy said, to govern is to choose. And there was case after case after case where John Kerry, as the vice president articulated today in Missouri, chose to reduce our military. He chose against providing resources to our military in this war in the Iraq supplemental vote. And he has to answer for that, James.
CARVILLE: Congressman, I'll go back to this. Not only did Chuck Hagel and John McCain serve in Vietnam, they served 19 years in the Senate with John Kerry. And they say, two Republicans, pro-defense Republicans, say these charges are poppycock.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And doesn't the president -- the Bush campaign, the president and the vice president look like a bunch of fools out there going against people like Senator McCain and Senator Kerry, who say this is poppycock? Isn't this ridiculous?
PENCE: Well, I think they would if they were not doing it in a serious -- intellectually serious way.
The vice president today in Missouri, James, pointed out after the first attack on the World Trade Center, John Kerry was right in there, literally voting for significant cuts in excess of $! billion in our intelligence community. And all along the way, you see in John Kerry, who described himself until very recently as a liberal Democrat, voting as many liberals do, James, against military spending and for military cuts. And he has to respond to the vote against soldiers in this war.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Delegate Norton, I want to read -- I want to read to you something that John Kerry said a number of years ago that I think makes a lot of sense. I think it's thoughtful. It's hard to disagree.
In 1992, he said -- quote -- "We do not need to divide America over who served and how. I have personally always believed that many served in many different ways. We certainly do not need something as complex and emotional as Vietnam reduced to a simple campaign rhetoric." Amen.
Now he's running for president and he's singing a very different tune. Here's what he said this very morning on "Good Morning America." This is John Kerry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA")
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Republicans have spent $60 million in the last few weeks trying to attack me. And this comes from a president and a Republican Party that can't even answer whether or not he showed up for duty in the National Guard.
(CROSSTALK)
KERRY: I'm not going to stand for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: In other words: You're not a war hero like I am, so shut up.
And that's what he says basically everyday. And I wonder if he should stop using his Vietnam War record to silence his critics.
NORTON: What he ought to do is exactly what he's doing, because these folks, these Bush folks have attacked a man who has three Purple Hearts, one Bronze Star, and one Silver Star, while they were in graduate school or in Alabama avoiding the Vietnam War.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: OK, then I'm surprised that you're going quite as low...
CARVILLE: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Delegate Norton, did you serve in Vietnam? I suspect you didn't serve in Vietnam. You weren't fighting in the rice paddies. And I wonder why you have credibility to talk about the war in Iraq by your own definition of what it takes to speak out on this war.
NORTON: Oh, I see.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm just putting out how ludicrous
(CROSSTALK)
NORTON: Wait. Wait. Wait.
(CROSSTALK)
NORTON: You're with those who say that those of us who oppose the war...
CARLSON: I'm not saying that at all. I'm merely throwing back to you what you just said.
NORTON: What did I just say that you're throwing back?
CARLSON: You just said that it's illegitimate for someone who didn't serve to criticize someone who did.
NORTON: I didn't say it was illegitimate. These folks threw the first rock. They live in a glass house. They deserve to have it thrown right back in their face.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: That's low.
CARVILLE: Let me go to...
PENCE: James, if I may...
CARVILLE: Sure. Go ahead.
PENCE: Look, the truth here is -- and John Kerry just this morning on "Good Morning America" talks about $60 million in attack campaigns. Well, unless Disney and ABC are now part of the Bush campaign, what was on national television today was John Kerry's own words in 1971 in which he said that he threw six, seven, eight or nine of his medals into the wading pool in front of Congress, despite the fact that he spent 20 years denying doing that.
The real enemy of John Kerry's campaign in 2004 is John Kerry for the last 20 years. He is arguing with himself over this campaign.
CARVILLE: Congressman, let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. Let me get this straight.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: We're stuck in a war that we have no plan to get out of. We've turned a $5.6 trillion budget surplus into deficit as far as the eye can see. We've done nothing about health care costs. We're trashing the environment and we're actually sitting here talking about 1971?
Come on.
(APPLAUSE)
PENCE: Well, what we're talking about
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: In 1978, George Bush was a pro-choice candidate for the Congress of the United States. In 1972, he didn't show up for duty. What difference does it make what John Kerry did in 1971 if he in fact did anything?
(APPLAUSE)
PENCE: Well, it makes a difference. James, it makes a difference, because character matters. And in times like these especially, when our enemy is planning to bring attacks against this country, we need to have a president who knows what he knows, says what he believes, will stand by his guns. That's George W. Bush.
CARVILLE: Character matters. He's never gotten a DWI?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Hold on, James.
Let me just ask quickly, James just said essentially it was 30 years -- personally, I don't even care about the story. But James has made the point it was 30 years ago. Who cares if Kerry lied about it this morning?
Do you feel the same way?
NORTON: I think Kerry himself has said that some of the rhetoric he used, some of the ways he felt when he had just gotten back from the Vietnam War are words he wouldn't use today, and I think we ought to take this Vietnam hero at his word on that.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: All right.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: We will be right back.
Ahead in "Rapid Fire," is a former president trying to steal the spotlight away from John Kerry? Oh, tug at my heartstrings.
And what's next for U.S. forces in Fallujah? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after the break.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour, in Fallujah, a raging gun battle, Marines taking on Iraqi insurgents and taking casualties. Are U.S. forces being drawn into a trap? I'll speak with the former Defense Secretary William Cohen.
Chilling images of a deadly plot, new information about the conspiracy to attack a key United States embassy and how authorities say it was broken up.
And a rare interview with an unsung heroine. I'll speak to the customs agent who caught a terrorist at the U.S. border with Canada just in time.
Those stories, much more, just minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we try to ask questions even faster than the Bush administration can throw mud at John Kerry.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Our guests, Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence and D.C. Delegate to the Congress Eleanor Holmes Norton.
CARLSON: Now, Ms. Norton, as you know, former President Clinton's memoir is due out. It's going to be hundreds of pages long. They have printed more than one million copies and it's coming out the last week in June, in other words, right before John Kerry's coronation as his party's candidate. Why doesn't Clinton delay until after the election? Instead, he's stealing the spotlight from Kerry.
NORTON: Actually, I wish he would, but it's probably not his decision. And I know there's a publisher somewhere out there saying this is the time to put it out. And I hope the president can prevail upon them to wait.
CARVILLE: Let's talk about not something John Kerry said 30- something years ago, but let's talk about something Vice President Cheney said as a member of Congress in 1986 -- quote -- "Let's rid ourselves of the fiction that low oil prices are somehow good for the United States" -- unquote.
Do you agree with the vice president that low oil prices are not good for the United States?
PENCE: I would disagree with anyone who would suggest that low energy prices are not in the best interests of the American people. But -- and that's the reason why I and many Republicans, including the vice president, have sought to expand our domestic exploration even into the Alaska National Wildlife region.
CARLSON: Now, Ms. Norton, John Kerry has pledged that, if elected, he'll our troops in Iraq. In fact, he'll add more troops to the American forces now in Iraq. He'd be there for a long time. If I'm a liberal, an anti-war liberal, why wouldn't I just vote for Ralph Nader?
NORTON: Because you recognize that Bush got you into a mess that Kerry can't by himself get you out of.
What Kerry can do, what he will have the credibility to do that Bush does not is to bring our allies in. When you off our allies the way Bush did, you cannot -- you have no chance of bringing them in and bringing more troops from them. A new president, a change in the presidency can accomplish that.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Congressman Pence, you are in my opinion both an honorable and a fiscal conservative. How much money this year will Iraq cost the American taxpayer? The administration won't tell us. So you tell us.
PENCE: Well, there are some estimates. Our budget resolution contemplates...
(BELL RINGING)
PENCE: ... about $50 billion in additional expenditures. But, look, as the president said
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Would you call that low or high?
PENCE: I think that's realistic and maybe a little low. The bottom line is, with this commander in chief, James, we're going to spend what we need to get the job done and bring those men home safely.
CARLSON: OK, with that, thank you very much, Congressman Mike Pence, D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton, thank you both.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, who should John Kerry pick as his running mate? Someone amusing, of course. But next, we'll tell you who one real- life matchmaker thinks would be his perfect match.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
Well, those of you with a yen or even a yenta to help find John Kerry find a perfect match for a running mate will no doubt be amused by the advice offered today by professional matchmaker Barbie Adler in "The Wall Street Journal." Since Kerry is not the most relaxed man in the world, Adler says he needs a less uptight running mate. He also needs someone with, as she put it, less hair.
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: Well, it turns out someone who meets all of those criteria and who likes cheeseburgers is New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. Adler says he would be a perfect fit, despite the fact that he's got a lot of hair. Actually, I have to say...
CARVILLE: What about me? I -- you're telling me. I don't have much hair.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, you really don't.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: How do you think I would sort of stand up to the scrutiny?
CARLSON: I think you would be a fantastic running mate. If it can't be Mrs. Clinton or Dennis Kucinich, I vote for you.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I'm all for it, absolutely.
CARLSON: Right.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. Have a great night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 26, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Dick Cheney goes on offense, attacking John Kerry's record on defense. But John Kerry and friends are firing back at the vice president.
TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: We remember Dick Cheney and he is the last guy that should be lecturing John Kerry about how to defend America.
ANNOUNCER: Plus, a professional matchmaker's pick for Kerry's running mate.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Tucker Carlson.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
I admit, Dick Cheney made his case today, when it comes to Republican mud-slinging, he certainly deserves a place up there with Richard Nixon and Spiro Agnew.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Actually, it is the message, not the messenger. And John Kerry's record on defense and national security is fascinating and well worth exploring in some detail.
And we will, right after the best political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Well, at the march on the National Mall yesterday, "The Washington Post" reports that actress Cybill Shepherd was spotted carrying a sign that read -- quote -- "Too bad John Ashcroft's mother didn't believe in abortion."
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: In other words, John Ashcroft would be better off dead. Well, you have to give Shepherd credit for directness, although almost no one said it out loud, yesterday's march was indeed about abortion, not health care or the Constitution or choice, whatever the hell that is, but abortion. And abortion is about killing.
Polite people hate it when you say that, but it's true. Abortion is the act of preventing a child from being born. That's what it is.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: There is no other honest way to describe it. So cheers to Cybill Shepherd. She has summed up her movement perfectly in a single sign. What a hater. What a
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You know what? You know, I know this offends you, to have a million expressing their constitutional right to free speech.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You know what? It wasn't about free speech, James. It's about abortion.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I know you and Ari Fleischer who say, you know, women
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: It's not about free speech. It's about the act of abortion. Defend abortion or not.
CARVILLE: It's about outlawing...
CARLSON: No, it's about abortion.
CARVILLE: It's about outlawing what a woman does and women don't want you to tell them what to do. It's that simple.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Why can't you just tell the truth?
CARVILLE: That's why these women know that.
CARLSON: You can't even bear to talk about it, can you?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: There we go. All right.
George W. Bush has picked up an endorsement you're not likely to hear about on Rush Limbaugh's radio show or the Fox News Channel. However, we at CROSSFIRE are proud to bring you all of the important political news. So here it is. George W. Bush endorsed by none other than al Qaeda.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: The statement from al Qaeda following the Madrid bombings reported in this week's "New York Review of Books" said the organization hoped George Bush would win reelection -- quote -- "because he acts with force, rather than wisdom or shrewdness and his religious fanaticism will rouse our Islamic nation, has been shown."
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: So the next time the Republicans begin attacking John Kerry because of some silly Hollywood endorsement, remind them that George W. Bush is al Qaeda's candidate. And I for one don't intend to vote with al Qaeda in this election.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know, I have to say, that is the -- that is so dumb. That is so dumb that I'm not even offended by it. I haven't even thought deeply enough to be offended.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I will say, though, criticize Bush about anything you want, but I think he is resolute in a way that Kerry is not in fighting terrorism. And I think in the end, actually, that al Qaeda endorsed him?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Your lips should be burning with the stupidity.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Who cares? Al Qaeda is evil.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... Web site. I'm saying this. People that know the war on terrorism understand that our invasion of Iraq has done nothing but help al Qaeda. And that is a damn shame.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: And it is a shame. And it is the policy. Look, do I think it's a silly thing? I just bring it up because you love to talk about Cybill Shepherd.
(BELL RINGING) CARVILLE: And so I'll just talk about this.
CARLSON: Actually...
CARVILLE: But the truth is, they have weakened our country
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... terrorism.
CARLSON: Whenever, whenever, James, you say "the truth," is my mind short-circuits.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Right, that is the truth. You wouldn't know what it is. That's why.
CARLSON: This morning's "New York Times" carries a terrifying story about Muslim clerics in Europe. Various Islamic leaders there are quoted praising Osama bin Laden and the 9/11 hijackers known there as -- quote -- "the magnificent 19" and calling for violent jihad against the West.
Openly, says "The Times," they say they would like to see Prime Minister Tony Blair dead or deposed and an Islamic flag hanging outside No. 10 Downing Street. In other words, Muslim fascists publicly espouse violence against the government of Great Britain and nobody does anything about it. The would-be terrorists aren't thrown in jail. The foreign-born among them aren't even deported.
There comes a point when a nation becomes so broad-minded that it loses the will to defend itself. Healthy societies are endlessly tolerant of self-expression, but they are utterly, avowedly, aggressively intolerant of authoritarian elements that seek to destroy them. Americans still understand this. Let's hope that, unlike Europe, we never forget.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Well, you know, I have no idea what -- I have no idea what British law is, but I do know what American law is. And if it's against the law, you ought to do that. But I don't agree with Ari Fleischer and people like you that says Americans need
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know what the hell you're talking about, James.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Ari Fleischer, the president's press secretary.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You're talking about the (CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... Bill Maher thing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: If you stand up in the street -- if you're an Islamic cleric, stand up and say, I want to overthrow this government by force
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: This war in Iraq, we were lied to get into it. We have no plan to get out of it.
CARLSON: What does that have to do with anything?
CARVILLE: It's a disaster.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Ari Fleischer tells me to watch what I say and do. I don't watch what I say and do.
CARLSON: Right.
CARVILLE: And the free, the patriot -- correct police are not going to shut James Carville up.
CARLSON: What are you talking about? You've gone insane again.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice recently went up to the Capitol to brief members of Congress on Iraq. Coming out of the meeting, Senator Rick "Man on Dog" Santorum of Pennsylvania said Rice...
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Rice gave the senators -- quote -- "a very upbeat" report on how things are going there and the progress that's being made. We've got people shooting at our troops from mosques, suicide boaters managing to attack the country's oil terminals. We have no idea how who we're going to hand over power to. And the administration is giving an upbeat report.
There are only three possible ways to explain their depths of this administration's delusion on Iraq. Either they're liars or they're suffering some kind of mental incapacity or they're taking illegal drugs.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: I can only hope that they're just as upbeat and feel they're making just as much progress in their reelection campaign, because, if that's the case, John Kerry is going to win in a landslide.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know what? I actually think Kerry's pretty smart. I don't think Bush is in the strongest position right now. But it turns out that you can't be elected president simple political by whining about mistakes. You have to provide a vision for what you would do. And John Kerry hasn't done that, James. Instead, he stands around.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: What's upbeat? I'm asking you a question. I'm asking you a question. What's upbeat? What's upbeat? What is going good there?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: What's upbeat about Iraq? Not very much. But America's commitment...
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... to making it...
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: ... to making it a better country is upbeat, James. And I'm honest enough to say that.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... Condoleezza Rice and Rick "Man on Dog"...
(BARKING)
CARVILLE: ... Santorum have something to say about that.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Is it time for John Kerry to pick a running mate? Is it time for James Carville to be heavily medicated?
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Kerry came under fire from Vice President Dick Cheney today for his shaky record on defense. And the best person he could find to cover his flank, DNC Chairman Terry McAuliffe, the general himself. We'll put Cheney vs. Kerry in the CROSSFIRE next.
And speaking of a vice president, should Kerry turn to this matchmaking site for advice on his choice? Of course not. But we'll tell you about it anyway.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Get ahead of the CROSSFIRE. Sign up for CROSSFIRE's daily "Political Alert" e-mail. You'll get a preview of each day's show, plus an inside look at the day's political headlines. Just go to CNN.com/CROSSFIRE and sign up today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: The Bush administration has bankrupt the county, then walked away from the war on terrorism to make a mess in Iraq. With a record like that, it's no wonder people like Vice President Cheney resort to throwing mud at John Kerry.
In the CROSSFIRE today, Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence and D.C. Democratic Delegate to the Congress of the United States, Eleanor Holmes Norton.
REP. MIKE PENCE (R), INDIANA: Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Delegate Norton, thanks for joining us.
I want to read you something Dick Cheney said today about John Kerry that strikes me as irrefutable and kind of amusing, too. Here's what he said: "Just eight days ago, Senator Kerry said that Former President George Bush had done -- quote -- 'a brilliant job of building the alliance.' Having served as director of defense under former President Bush, I appreciate Senator Kerry's comment. But I find it odd that Senator Kerry is now commending an alliance he didn't want to build for a purpose he didn't support."
He, of course, voted against that Gulf War. Meanwhile, Kerry, of course, voted for the Patriot Act. Now he denounces it. He voted for the war in Iraq. Now he denounces it. It seems to me Kerry only supports things he voted against and vice-versa. Notice the pattern?
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON (D), WASHINGTON, D.C. DELEGATE: You know, you're showing the president's same pattern of not understanding nuance. That is to say, things are either black or white.
CARLSON: Without attacking me, maybe you can answer the question.
NORTON: Well, I'm answering the question. I'm answering the question.
CARVILLE: Right. Thank you. Thank you. Just you go ahead and answer and don't let him
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Thank you.
NORTON: You know, the fact is the world is more complicated than George W. Bush realizes and that's dangerous.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You obviously you didn't hear my question and got right to your talking point.
NORTON: You obviously didn't hear my answer. You don't want to hear my answer.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, no, let me ask my question. And it is this. John Kerry voted against that Gulf War and now he is holding it up as a brilliant job. And my question is, why?
NORTON: Well, I'll tell you exactly why.
I was against the Gulf War. When I look at what has happened since, in retrospect, when I see what Saddam was and is, I'm willing to say, you know what? What Colin Powell and I thought then was not true. Now I know what should have been done and the next time I'm going to take another look at it. How could you possibly be against somebody looking at what he did in the past, seeing that there were some mistakes in how he viewed it and correcting them in the future?
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You cast the vote, not me. I don't know. That's my question.
NORTON: Well, that's the answer. That's the answer.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman, as you know, one of the attacks on Senator Kerry by Vice President Cheney is that he's weak on defense. Senator John McCain said that was a bunch of hogwash. And on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos," George Stephanopoulos asked Senator Hagel, also a war hero and a Republican, as Senator McCain is.
And I want to show you what Senator Hagel said, echoing the sentiments of Senator McCain: "I tend to agree with John McCain on this. The facts just don't measure up to the rhetoric. You can take a guy like John Kerry, who has been in the Senate for 19 years and go through that voting record. You can take it with Biden, Hagel or any of us and pick out different votes and then try to manufacture something around this."
Why are these Republican people who served in the military, conservatives and everything, saying that this attack on -- who know John Kerry -- saying it's poppycock. And then you've got people like Cheney, who got us into a war with no plan to get us out of, going around attacking John Kerry? I don't understand it. I'm confused. Maybe you can tell me how Senator Hagel and Senator McCain are wrong.
PENCE: I'm sure I can, James. We'll clear it all up for you.
I think there's no question that John McCain and Senator Hagel and to no less extent John Kerry are men who served their country in uniform, people that we should listen to, we should admire what they've done for our country. And in each case -- and I think my two colleagues on the Senate on the Republican side would agree with me -- we are responsible those of us that are legislators with the decisions that we make.
As President Kennedy said, to govern is to choose. And there was case after case after case where John Kerry, as the vice president articulated today in Missouri, chose to reduce our military. He chose against providing resources to our military in this war in the Iraq supplemental vote. And he has to answer for that, James.
CARVILLE: Congressman, I'll go back to this. Not only did Chuck Hagel and John McCain serve in Vietnam, they served 19 years in the Senate with John Kerry. And they say, two Republicans, pro-defense Republicans, say these charges are poppycock.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And doesn't the president -- the Bush campaign, the president and the vice president look like a bunch of fools out there going against people like Senator McCain and Senator Kerry, who say this is poppycock? Isn't this ridiculous?
PENCE: Well, I think they would if they were not doing it in a serious -- intellectually serious way.
The vice president today in Missouri, James, pointed out after the first attack on the World Trade Center, John Kerry was right in there, literally voting for significant cuts in excess of $! billion in our intelligence community. And all along the way, you see in John Kerry, who described himself until very recently as a liberal Democrat, voting as many liberals do, James, against military spending and for military cuts. And he has to respond to the vote against soldiers in this war.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Delegate Norton, I want to read -- I want to read to you something that John Kerry said a number of years ago that I think makes a lot of sense. I think it's thoughtful. It's hard to disagree.
In 1992, he said -- quote -- "We do not need to divide America over who served and how. I have personally always believed that many served in many different ways. We certainly do not need something as complex and emotional as Vietnam reduced to a simple campaign rhetoric." Amen.
Now he's running for president and he's singing a very different tune. Here's what he said this very morning on "Good Morning America." This is John Kerry.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA")
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The Republicans have spent $60 million in the last few weeks trying to attack me. And this comes from a president and a Republican Party that can't even answer whether or not he showed up for duty in the National Guard.
(CROSSTALK)
KERRY: I'm not going to stand for it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: In other words: You're not a war hero like I am, so shut up.
And that's what he says basically everyday. And I wonder if he should stop using his Vietnam War record to silence his critics.
NORTON: What he ought to do is exactly what he's doing, because these folks, these Bush folks have attacked a man who has three Purple Hearts, one Bronze Star, and one Silver Star, while they were in graduate school or in Alabama avoiding the Vietnam War.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: OK, then I'm surprised that you're going quite as low...
CARVILLE: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Delegate Norton, did you serve in Vietnam? I suspect you didn't serve in Vietnam. You weren't fighting in the rice paddies. And I wonder why you have credibility to talk about the war in Iraq by your own definition of what it takes to speak out on this war.
NORTON: Oh, I see.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm just putting out how ludicrous
(CROSSTALK)
NORTON: Wait. Wait. Wait.
(CROSSTALK)
NORTON: You're with those who say that those of us who oppose the war...
CARLSON: I'm not saying that at all. I'm merely throwing back to you what you just said.
NORTON: What did I just say that you're throwing back?
CARLSON: You just said that it's illegitimate for someone who didn't serve to criticize someone who did.
NORTON: I didn't say it was illegitimate. These folks threw the first rock. They live in a glass house. They deserve to have it thrown right back in their face.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: That's low.
CARVILLE: Let me go to...
PENCE: James, if I may...
CARVILLE: Sure. Go ahead.
PENCE: Look, the truth here is -- and John Kerry just this morning on "Good Morning America" talks about $60 million in attack campaigns. Well, unless Disney and ABC are now part of the Bush campaign, what was on national television today was John Kerry's own words in 1971 in which he said that he threw six, seven, eight or nine of his medals into the wading pool in front of Congress, despite the fact that he spent 20 years denying doing that.
The real enemy of John Kerry's campaign in 2004 is John Kerry for the last 20 years. He is arguing with himself over this campaign.
CARVILLE: Congressman, let me get this straight. Let me get this straight. Let me get this straight.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: We're stuck in a war that we have no plan to get out of. We've turned a $5.6 trillion budget surplus into deficit as far as the eye can see. We've done nothing about health care costs. We're trashing the environment and we're actually sitting here talking about 1971?
Come on.
(APPLAUSE)
PENCE: Well, what we're talking about
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: In 1978, George Bush was a pro-choice candidate for the Congress of the United States. In 1972, he didn't show up for duty. What difference does it make what John Kerry did in 1971 if he in fact did anything?
(APPLAUSE)
PENCE: Well, it makes a difference. James, it makes a difference, because character matters. And in times like these especially, when our enemy is planning to bring attacks against this country, we need to have a president who knows what he knows, says what he believes, will stand by his guns. That's George W. Bush.
CARVILLE: Character matters. He's never gotten a DWI?
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Hold on, James.
Let me just ask quickly, James just said essentially it was 30 years -- personally, I don't even care about the story. But James has made the point it was 30 years ago. Who cares if Kerry lied about it this morning?
Do you feel the same way?
NORTON: I think Kerry himself has said that some of the rhetoric he used, some of the ways he felt when he had just gotten back from the Vietnam War are words he wouldn't use today, and I think we ought to take this Vietnam hero at his word on that.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: All right.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: We will be right back.
Ahead in "Rapid Fire," is a former president trying to steal the spotlight away from John Kerry? Oh, tug at my heartstrings.
And what's next for U.S. forces in Fallujah? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after the break.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour, in Fallujah, a raging gun battle, Marines taking on Iraqi insurgents and taking casualties. Are U.S. forces being drawn into a trap? I'll speak with the former Defense Secretary William Cohen.
Chilling images of a deadly plot, new information about the conspiracy to attack a key United States embassy and how authorities say it was broken up.
And a rare interview with an unsung heroine. I'll speak to the customs agent who caught a terrorist at the U.S. border with Canada just in time.
Those stories, much more, just minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we try to ask questions even faster than the Bush administration can throw mud at John Kerry.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Our guests, Indiana Republican Congressman Mike Pence and D.C. Delegate to the Congress Eleanor Holmes Norton.
CARLSON: Now, Ms. Norton, as you know, former President Clinton's memoir is due out. It's going to be hundreds of pages long. They have printed more than one million copies and it's coming out the last week in June, in other words, right before John Kerry's coronation as his party's candidate. Why doesn't Clinton delay until after the election? Instead, he's stealing the spotlight from Kerry.
NORTON: Actually, I wish he would, but it's probably not his decision. And I know there's a publisher somewhere out there saying this is the time to put it out. And I hope the president can prevail upon them to wait.
CARVILLE: Let's talk about not something John Kerry said 30- something years ago, but let's talk about something Vice President Cheney said as a member of Congress in 1986 -- quote -- "Let's rid ourselves of the fiction that low oil prices are somehow good for the United States" -- unquote.
Do you agree with the vice president that low oil prices are not good for the United States?
PENCE: I would disagree with anyone who would suggest that low energy prices are not in the best interests of the American people. But -- and that's the reason why I and many Republicans, including the vice president, have sought to expand our domestic exploration even into the Alaska National Wildlife region.
CARLSON: Now, Ms. Norton, John Kerry has pledged that, if elected, he'll our troops in Iraq. In fact, he'll add more troops to the American forces now in Iraq. He'd be there for a long time. If I'm a liberal, an anti-war liberal, why wouldn't I just vote for Ralph Nader?
NORTON: Because you recognize that Bush got you into a mess that Kerry can't by himself get you out of.
What Kerry can do, what he will have the credibility to do that Bush does not is to bring our allies in. When you off our allies the way Bush did, you cannot -- you have no chance of bringing them in and bringing more troops from them. A new president, a change in the presidency can accomplish that.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Congressman Pence, you are in my opinion both an honorable and a fiscal conservative. How much money this year will Iraq cost the American taxpayer? The administration won't tell us. So you tell us.
PENCE: Well, there are some estimates. Our budget resolution contemplates...
(BELL RINGING)
PENCE: ... about $50 billion in additional expenditures. But, look, as the president said
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Would you call that low or high?
PENCE: I think that's realistic and maybe a little low. The bottom line is, with this commander in chief, James, we're going to spend what we need to get the job done and bring those men home safely.
CARLSON: OK, with that, thank you very much, Congressman Mike Pence, D.C. Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton, thank you both.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, who should John Kerry pick as his running mate? Someone amusing, of course. But next, we'll tell you who one real- life matchmaker thinks would be his perfect match.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
Well, those of you with a yen or even a yenta to help find John Kerry find a perfect match for a running mate will no doubt be amused by the advice offered today by professional matchmaker Barbie Adler in "The Wall Street Journal." Since Kerry is not the most relaxed man in the world, Adler says he needs a less uptight running mate. He also needs someone with, as she put it, less hair.
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: Well, it turns out someone who meets all of those criteria and who likes cheeseburgers is New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson. Adler says he would be a perfect fit, despite the fact that he's got a lot of hair. Actually, I have to say...
CARVILLE: What about me? I -- you're telling me. I don't have much hair.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, you really don't.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: How do you think I would sort of stand up to the scrutiny?
CARLSON: I think you would be a fantastic running mate. If it can't be Mrs. Clinton or Dennis Kucinich, I vote for you.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I'm all for it, absolutely.
CARLSON: Right.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. Have a great night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
