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CNN Crossfire
Taking on the Terrorists
Aired May 26, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Bush administration is warning Americans the threat from terror attacks is very real this summer.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: There's continued reporting, some reporting that says that there are multiple attacks that may occur in the next couple of months.
ANNOUNCER: Does President Bush have the best plan to take on terrorism?
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president knows, the best way to win the war on terrorism is to stay on the offensive and take the fight to the terrorists before they can carry out their attacks.
ANNOUNCER: Or could John Kerry do a better job?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I can wage a more effective war on terror than George Bush is.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Just days ahead of Memorial Day weekend, warnings about possible new al Qaeda attacks on American soil. With a lot of big events going on this summer, from the political conventions to the G8 Summit, the possibility is being taken seriously by law enforcement and as a political and fund-raising opportunity by some Democrats.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: But, amazingly, President Bush has actually cut the budget for police, firefighters and other homeland security officials. Apparently, with Mr. Bush and homeland defense, when it's all said and done, there's a lot more said and done. The home front in the war on terror our focus today. But first, we begin with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Attorney General John Ashcroft today revealed new information suggesting al Qaeda terrorists are planning a large-scale attack this summer. The Bush administration inexplicably kept this intelligence from the American people for about a month. The International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which endorsed George W. Bush back in 2000, has switched to John Kerry because Mr. Bush has, in their words -- quote -- "turned his back on America's police officers" -- unquote.
Despite the fact that al Qaeda animals are in this country and want to kill you and despite the fact that a new study shows Mr. Bush's war in Iraq has actually strengthened al Qaeda, our president has squandered $3.2 trillion over 10 years on tax cuts for the rich, but invested only $36 billion a year on homeland security. Mr. Bush's position, sure, you may be killed by terrorists, but at least your children won't have to pay the estate tax.
CARLSON: I don't know -- the implication of your point that that information was withheld for a month. First of all, that information is updated every day, as you know, having worked in the West Wing. New information comes in, an avalanche of it. But I don't really see the motive in withholding it for a month. What is the sinister explanation.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I have no idea. I'm going to ask Tony Blankley when he comes out here. Why would they withhold this for a month? I think we should have more information from the administration, not less, about the threats to our lives. Why would they hold it for a month? Does it ripen?
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: They would have no motive except to protect people. I don't think you can ascribe a political motive to that, can you? Are you?
BEGALA: I want to know why. I want to know why.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And I'm going to ask Tony. Maybe he knows.
CARLSON: Well, Democrats in Washington are so consumed with soul-killing hatred for George W. Bush, they can barely think straight. And yet -- and here's the funny part -- they continue to give speeches anyway.
Former Vice President Al Gore gave a speech today in partnership with the left-wing group MoveOn.org. MoveOn, you'll remember, opposed the U.S. war against al Qaeda Afghanistan after September 11. In the years since, the site has posted material comparing the president of the United States to Adolf Hitler. In other words, if you hate George W. Bush so much that you have gone completely insane, then MoveOn.org is just the site for you and also for Al Gore.
Gore's speech today was furious and incomprehensible and very, very long. We'll spare you the details, except for this one. Gore did not mention the names of the seven al Qaeda terrorists thought to be planning an attack right now in the United States. Instead, he said that the single greatest threat in America today is, yes, Donald Rumsfeld. Gore appeared to mean it. Let's hope that the former vice president recovers.
BEGALA: Well, you can attack MoveOn.org. They're a great grassroots organization.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: They're haters, Paul. Come on, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: What I'm struck by is the fact that the haters of al Qaeda have endorsed George W. Bush for president.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Because he has been the best thing to happen to them. His crazy war on Iraq has been a recruiting tool for al Qaeda.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And serious scholars from the International Institute of Strategic Studies...
CARLSON: So irresponsible, so over the top.
BEGALA: ... the Army War College, experts who have studies this have all concluded that Bush's war in Iraq has helped al Qaeda recruit.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: You know what? If you think you're going to win an election saying things like that, fine.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I would rather have John Kerry elected than to have to hear things like that for another four years, because they're so over the top.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, you're going to get both. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, tragic news -- with, rather, tragic news from Iraq and terror alerts here at home, it's good to see that someone somewhere still knows how to have a little fun in American politics.
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is launching a new game on its Web site, www.DCCC.org. It's called "Republican Survivor" and it allows you to vote a prominent Republican off a cartoon island. Your choices include President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Congressman Tom DeLay, Congresswoman Katherine Harris, and pundit, I think she is, Ann Coulter.
I don't know about you. I'd just as soon leave all of them on an island, rather than have them here in America. We're better off without all of them.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Republicans no doubt will respond with their usual self- righteousness and lack of humor, which is a sad commentary. The party of great presidential wits, from Lincoln to Reagan, is now the province of lemon suckers and whiners.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Of all the half-truths that I've heard on this show, that has got to be the most unbelievable.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I have never met a more humorless, grouchy -- put out that cigarette, put on your seat belt -- group of people than the Democratic Party. I've never been told what to do more than by Democrats, who are so offended by people just relaxing and enjoying themselves.
BEGALA: Go check out the DCCC Web site.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know what? I'm not even complaining about that. As long as you don't compare them to Hitler, I'm fine.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Look, I've never met a more humorless group.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: And you know that that's true.
BEGALA: Than the Republicans. CARLSON: Than feminists? Come on. Who laughs less than feminists?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Except right-wingers.
CARLSON: All right, well, speaking of amusing, the Howard Dean for president campaign was never very realistic. A diminutive, grumpy Vermont governor with a self-control problem for president? It never made a ton of sense.
But if you thought that was farfetched and faith-based, how about the Howard Dean for vice president campaign? Well, there is one. A group of true believers with a ton of free time on their hands has created the National Draft Dean For V.P. Committee, set up its own Web site. DraftDeanForVP.org. They hope to gather 200,000 signatures and force John Kerry to pick him as his running mate.
Kerry of course has no plans to pick Dean, who, after all, is the man who once demanded that Americans not prejudge Osama bin Laden. On the other hand, why shouldn't Kerry pick Dean? Of course he should. The two are beginning to almost exactly sound the same. Dean would bring energy, proven fund-raising talent and an army of enthusiastic, heavily tattooed followers. Howard Dean also believes what he says. And if there's anything John Kerry could use these days, it's genuine conviction about anything, anything. Kerry-Dean '04, it just sounds right.
BEGALA: Why -- all of the sudden, now you're banging on Howard Dean.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The day before yesterday, you were talking about great he is.
CARLSON: I'm not banging on him. I'm supporting...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So you want Dean on the ticket?
CARLSON: I think Dean is an extremist. And that's why I like him.
BEGALA: How about Dick Cheney? How does he rank
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I don't think he is.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: You don't think Dick Cheney is an extremist? Oh, my lord in heaven. (CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Dick Cheney -- Howard Dean did not mislead us into a war. Howard Dean told the truth about the war. Dick Cheney misled us about the war. I'd rather have Howard Dean as my vice president.
CARLSON: No, I agree. We shouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden. Yes, I agree with that. Good point, Howard Dean. Good point.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: We should go to war in Iraq, when they're not threat whatsoever.
CARLSON: All right, everyone seems to agree that the war on terror is real. And so is the threat. The question is, who do you think will do a better job of taking on the terrorists, President Bush or John Kerry? That's the debate.
Also, a group of actors has taken a sudden interest in a Kentucky state political race. We'll tell you why later on in our show.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Is there another national tragedy in the making this summer, a major terrorist attack designed to kill hundreds, perhaps thousands of Americans? And is the Bush administration doing enough to stop it?
In the CROSSFIRE today, we have Tony Blankley, editorial page editor of "The Washington Times," and also former Congressman Tom Andrews of Maine, national director of the Win Without War Coalition.
BEGALA: Guys, good to see you again.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Tony, the attorney general, the director of the FBI today released new information about an al Qaeda threat. I have no reason to doubt them. I'm sure it's real. I'm glad that they released it. I hope everybody pays attention and does what they can to help out.
But why did they hold this information for a month after they deemed it was credible? TONY BLANKLEY, EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": I have no idea.
But I know that this whole business of the coded -- the orange, yellow codes, I think got out of hand. Initially, when they use them, everyone started giggling at them. So I think the administration backed off on that and started giving information out just to law enforcement and haven't that sort of level-up, level-down process. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference.
Obviously, they're letting law enforcement know whenever they have information. And I think now it's useful for the public to know because obviously, according to what we've all seen in the news today, they think that the threat is reasonably in the next few months. And so as many Americans keeping their eyes open is useful.
I used to be a prosecutor. And there's no question. Most crimes are solved not by good detective work, but by people seeing something and calling the cops and saying, I see something. So I think it's very important in the next few months that everybody, if they see something suspicious, report it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I agree wholeheartedly. But I'm still wondering why they held this for a month. And I want you to tell me it had nothing to do with the fact that today the Bush campaign released a new ad attacking John Kerry on terrorism.
BLANKLEY: I think today had nothing to do with that ad. That's my theory.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: You don't think John Ashcroft would do such a thing?
BLANKLEY: No, I don't think he's that clever.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tom Andrews, I think even Democrats -- my personal view is that Democrats are attacking George W. Bush on national security and protecting the homeland against terrorism as a predicate in case there is a terrorist attack, so they can say, I told you so.
But I -- well, even you, someone who doesn't support Bush, do you think Bush haters can admit that the fact that we haven't had a terrorist attack since 9/11 reflects well on this administration?
TOM ANDREWS, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, WIN WITHOUT WAR COALITION: Thank God we haven't. But certainly it's not because of the administration.
It's striking to me. A report that came out of "The Washington Post" just a few days ago, Tucker -- and I was really shocked at this. The FBI asked the administration after 9/11 for an emergency amount of funds going in for counterterrorism. This administration cut two- thirds of that request. I mean, why would you possibly do this right after 9/11?
Plus, we now know from the Conference of Mayors that all those promises that we made to those in the front lines of counterterrorism, fire men and women, those in the police forces of our country, those on the front lines, promised enormous amount of resources to help. They haven't received that money.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I don't what fire women you've been talking to, but let me just ask you this.
ANDREWS: And finally, cargo, cargo ports.
CARLSON: Right.
ANDREWS: We're not inspecting cargo ports. I think, frankly, Tucker, that this administration just doesn't believe in government. So it's undermining government, undercutting government as ideology, so we face
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm blinded by your dislike.
Let me just put up a poll that shows you really are sort of far out, not at all in the mainstream.
ANDREWS: Far out.
CARLSON: In the views you just expressed.
ANDREWS: Oh, I see.
CARLSON: Who does a better job on terrorism, who do you trust more, Bush or Kerry, asked "Washington Post" and the ABC pollsters. Bush, 52, Kerry, 39. Most people think, contrary to what you think, that Bush actually is part of the reason we haven't been attacked.
ANDREWS: You know where the president's numbers are going? They're going south. Why?
Because the more people know about the track record of this administration, the more they know about this administration has not done to protect us, the more it knows about how this administration has undermined the very people who are on the front lines of the fight against terrorism, the more support for this administration is dropping; 70 percent-plus just a few months ago, under 60 percent, 50 percent, 49 percent, 48 percent. The more you know, the more you are opposed to this administration and its approach to terrorism.
BEGALA: Tony, we saw at the opening of the show, Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary, saying the president believes we should take the fight to the terrorists over there, rather than fight them here. I embrace that, which is why I supported the war in Afghanistan, where al Qaeda was based. But a lot of experts have looked at the war in Iraq and in fact have said it has helped al Qaeda and hurt our ability to fight al Qaeda. Let me read you a couple examples.
The Associated Press reported this week: "Far from being crippled by the U.S.-led war on terror, al Qaeda has more than 18,000 potential terrorists scattered around the world. And the war in Iraq is swelling its ranks, the International Institute of Strategic Studies said in its annual survey of world affairs."
And a report published by the Army War College called the war in Iraq -- quote -- "an unnecessary, preventative war" -- unquote -- that has -- quote -- "diverted attention and resources away from securing the homeland against further assault by an undeterrable al Qaeda. The Iraq war was a detour from the war on terrorism."
BLANKLEY: Separating out the policy dispute over whether we should have gone to a war in Iraq or not, we've debated this, we'll debate it forever, on the specific point of encouraging more terrorists to rally to al Qaeda's side, I take that point, but I think it was inevitable.
I think, when we went to Afghanistan to engage the enemy, that also was a propaganda for al Qaeda, to say we're going against a Muslim country and to help recruit. Any time nation's forces engage in battle, as we are now, as -- when the South attacked Fort Sumter, that rallied young Northern boys to come and volunteer fight.
It's inevitable that, when you engage the enemy, both sides gain propaganda advantages. They gain recruitment. It's a temporary process.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: Let me just finish.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: And the argument that it hasn't induced any more Arab young boys to join is silly. The argument that we could have avoided this by just staying home I think is equally silly, because, at some point...
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: At some point, we have to do what Kissinger said, which is go into the belly of the beast in the Middle East and try to change the circumstances there, because that is the source of the danger.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Somebody who knows a lot more about terrorism than Henry Kissinger is Richard Clarke. He served President Reagan.
BLANKLEY: I don't agree with you on that at all.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He served President Bush, President Reagan, President Clinton.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: I disagree fundamentally that Clarke knows more than Kissinger about
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's probably one of the world's great experts on terrorism.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: Unfortunately, he's flawed
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: What he has argued is that going into Iraq when we had al Qaeda in Afghanistan was akin to FDR attacking Mexico after we were bombed by Japan.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: No. No, actually, what it is, its akin to FDR and Churchill attacking Italy because they couldn't get to Germany yet.
You very often start a war where you can get into the war and you go towards the final capital, which is usually the last battle of the war. So the United States didn't engage in the German territory until late in 1944, and -- because we had to go first to North Africa and then to Italy and then working our way up and building up our forces. So the argument that you fight by indirection is wrong, well, that's inevitably the way you usually fight
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I want to ask you a question.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You said a moment ago that the fact that we have not been attacked or had a major attack since September 11, '01, had nothing to do with precautions taken by the Bush administration. I'm wondering, what is your explanation then?
ANDREWS: Well, first of all, we have a lot of very, very brave and courageous people on the front lines throughout the world and throughout this country that are doing a damn good job in protecting us.
CARLSON: Serving at the direction of the Bush administration, correct?
ANDREWS: Well, despite the fact that they're not getting the support that they need, the resources that they were promised, despite the fact they've been undermined from the word go from this administration, they are doing one heck of a job.
And we should take our hats off to them and support them. But I think that they need more.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Wait. So government employees that work for the Bush administration, but not the Bush administration.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm a little confused on this issue. Are they disobeying the administration in what they're doing and that's how they are getting the job done?
ANDREWS: You know, they're patriots. They believe in this country. They believe in the families of this country. And they're trying to support the families of this country and protect them, despite the fact that they're not getting the leadership from the top that they need to do the job.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And the point and his advisers are not patriots, is that what you're saying?
ANDREWS: I'm saying that those people on the front line are patriots.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: And they are being undermined by this administration.
CARLSON: It's a question. Can you answer it?
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: They are being undermined by the administration. Again, the facts are this.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me inject some facts in here.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Here's how the president has underfunded. First, he's cut first-responders' grants by $207 million. He cut firefighters' grants by 246, cut state and local law enforcement by almost $1 billion, cut the cops program by 87 percent, eliminated the Byrne law enforcement grants. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This is what Congressman Andrews is talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The president talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: Look, first of all, as you know, you were a former congressman. You know there are an awful lot of proposals for spending.
I watched what David Obey, who is the ranking Democrat on the Appropriations Committee, did on this issue. He did have a point. And I agreed with Obey when he proposed it. We needed to spend a little bit more money on cargo inspection. Right now, we're doing 2 to 3 percent of all the cargo containers coming into the country. He'd like to get it up to 4 to 5 percent.
That, by the way, is the range. At any level of spending, 95 percent of all cargo containers are not going to come into the country, even by the proposal of the ranking Democrat on the Appropriations Committee. There are limits to what we can do on the spending. But
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: We'll come back to this in the next segment. I'm sorry to do this, Congressman Andrews. I'm sorry, Mr. Blankley. We'll come right back to this.
We'll come back and we'll put our guests in the "Rapid Fire," where we'll speed it up even more. I'll ask Mr. Blankley why America's police officers have dumped President Bush and endorsed John Kerry.
And then a jury has come back with a verdict in the Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy trial of Terry Nichols. Wolf Blitzer will report right after the break.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, an ominous warning from the attorney general, John Ashcroft. Al Qaeda plans to attack the United States hard within the next few months.
Terry Nichols is convicted of murder and could face the death penalty for his role in the Oklahoma City bombing. And former Vice President Al Gore comes out swinging at George W. Bush. Just wait until you hear what the former vice president had to say.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf.
Time now for "Rapid Fire," where the questions come even faster than President Bush can come up with excuses for underfunding homeland security.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: We're talking about the threat of another potential terrorist attack here in the United States, perhaps as early as this summer, and whether our president or Senator Kerry can do a better job protecting America.
In the CROSSFIRE, Tony Blankley. He's the editorial editor of "The Washington Times." And former congressman from Maine, Democrat Tom Andrews, director of the Win Without War Coalition.
CARLSON: Tom, in his speech today, Al Gore today said virtually nothing about al Qaeda, but he did say this -- quote -- "Our nation is especially at risk every single day that Rumsfeld remains as secretary of defense."
That's extreme rhetoric, is it not? Can you just call it what it is?
ANDREWS: I think Secretary Rumsfeld has been an extreme secretary of defense.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: More dangerous than al Qaeda?
ANDREWS: Oh, come on. This guy...
CARLSON: You tell me. I'm just quoting Al Gore.
ANDREWS: Tucker, 25 percent -- according to "Newsweek" magazine, 25 percent of the deaths of our soldiers in Iraq were a direct result of the fact that our Defense Department did not provide them with the support that they needed, with the armor underneath their vehicles that would have saved their lives.
That is unconscionable. And anyone who is responsible, and he is responsible for going in lean and mean and cheap into Iraq, who has lost so many hundreds...
(CROSSTALK) CARLSON: It wasn't Clinton who cut the military in half or anything. Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: The lives of hundreds of these kids. He should be ousted.
CARLSON: Literally did.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... Mr. Blankley into this.
The International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which endorsed Governor Bush in 2000, has switched to support John Kerry. They say that President Bush has turned his back on law enforcement and underfunded them in the fight against terrorism. How do you respond?
BLANKLEY: I'll be willing to bet that Bush will get a big majority of the police officers' vote. This is a decision by the union bosses and they go back and forth, as union bosses do.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So the union bosses, when they support
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: I said they go back and forth as they see their interests. But the voters -- but the actual line officers are going to vote as they always do, overwhelmingly Republican.
I'll make one point about the inadequate armor.
(BELL RINGING)
BLANKLEY: In World War II, the Sherman tanks were known as death traps. Do you think FDR and his secretary of defense were irresponsible because they got those Sherman tanks out there that were underarmored? The truth is that
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: ... that in time of war, not everything is done.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: It was a war of choice. It was a war of choice.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: It was a war of choice.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: The good news is, we have enough for another show. The bad news is, we're out of time for this one.
Thank you both very much, Tom Andrews, Tony Blankley. Thank you. We appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, the state of Kentucky has been flooded with money from Hollywood lately. We will tell you why.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
Well, here's proof that it pays to hit your political ambitions to a star. Nick Clooney, a Democratic candidate for Congress in Kentucky, is raking in the cash from Hollywood, California. Of course, he has the connections that count. His son is Hollywood actor and star of HBO's "K Street," George Clooney.
And the actor's star power is evident in the contributions to his dad. Some of the names on the contribution list, Kevin Spacey, Kevin Costner, Melissa Gilbert, Renee Zellweger, Michael Douglas and Bette Midler, none of whom live in Kentucky. And, thank heaven, Barbra Streisand not on the list.
BEGALA: But Mr. Clooney has. I've had the pleasure of going out to northern Kentucky, seeing Nick Clooney. He is a brilliant, gifted guy. He looks just like George is going to look in 25 years. So that may help him as well. But he will be a great congressman. He will win that race.
CARLSON: As long as Barbra Streisand is not giving to his campaign, I don't have a problem with it.
BEGALA: I love -- why do you hate Barbra Streisand?
CARLSON: I don't hate her at all. She's just annoying and I've seen enough of her.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This is the man who interviewed Britney Spears and he doesn't like Barbra Streisand?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Look, if you want to become a part of the ultimate "Fireback," here's how you do it. Log on tomorrow, Thursday, at 4:30 Eastern for another edition of CROSSFIRE interactive Thursdays. Give us your feedback while you watch the show and you can become eligible -- get this -- to win prizes, including an all-expense paid trip to see Tucker and me here in CROSSFIRE live in Washington. Just go to CNN.com/ITV.
That's it for tonight -- for today. From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. That trip does not include liquor.
Join us again tomorrow for CROSSFIRE. See you then.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
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Aired May 26, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Bush administration is warning Americans the threat from terror attacks is very real this summer.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: There's continued reporting, some reporting that says that there are multiple attacks that may occur in the next couple of months.
ANNOUNCER: Does President Bush have the best plan to take on terrorism?
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president knows, the best way to win the war on terrorism is to stay on the offensive and take the fight to the terrorists before they can carry out their attacks.
ANNOUNCER: Or could John Kerry do a better job?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I can wage a more effective war on terror than George Bush is.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Just days ahead of Memorial Day weekend, warnings about possible new al Qaeda attacks on American soil. With a lot of big events going on this summer, from the political conventions to the G8 Summit, the possibility is being taken seriously by law enforcement and as a political and fund-raising opportunity by some Democrats.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: But, amazingly, President Bush has actually cut the budget for police, firefighters and other homeland security officials. Apparently, with Mr. Bush and homeland defense, when it's all said and done, there's a lot more said and done. The home front in the war on terror our focus today. But first, we begin with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Attorney General John Ashcroft today revealed new information suggesting al Qaeda terrorists are planning a large-scale attack this summer. The Bush administration inexplicably kept this intelligence from the American people for about a month. The International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which endorsed George W. Bush back in 2000, has switched to John Kerry because Mr. Bush has, in their words -- quote -- "turned his back on America's police officers" -- unquote.
Despite the fact that al Qaeda animals are in this country and want to kill you and despite the fact that a new study shows Mr. Bush's war in Iraq has actually strengthened al Qaeda, our president has squandered $3.2 trillion over 10 years on tax cuts for the rich, but invested only $36 billion a year on homeland security. Mr. Bush's position, sure, you may be killed by terrorists, but at least your children won't have to pay the estate tax.
CARLSON: I don't know -- the implication of your point that that information was withheld for a month. First of all, that information is updated every day, as you know, having worked in the West Wing. New information comes in, an avalanche of it. But I don't really see the motive in withholding it for a month. What is the sinister explanation.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I have no idea. I'm going to ask Tony Blankley when he comes out here. Why would they withhold this for a month? I think we should have more information from the administration, not less, about the threats to our lives. Why would they hold it for a month? Does it ripen?
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: They would have no motive except to protect people. I don't think you can ascribe a political motive to that, can you? Are you?
BEGALA: I want to know why. I want to know why.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And I'm going to ask Tony. Maybe he knows.
CARLSON: Well, Democrats in Washington are so consumed with soul-killing hatred for George W. Bush, they can barely think straight. And yet -- and here's the funny part -- they continue to give speeches anyway.
Former Vice President Al Gore gave a speech today in partnership with the left-wing group MoveOn.org. MoveOn, you'll remember, opposed the U.S. war against al Qaeda Afghanistan after September 11. In the years since, the site has posted material comparing the president of the United States to Adolf Hitler. In other words, if you hate George W. Bush so much that you have gone completely insane, then MoveOn.org is just the site for you and also for Al Gore.
Gore's speech today was furious and incomprehensible and very, very long. We'll spare you the details, except for this one. Gore did not mention the names of the seven al Qaeda terrorists thought to be planning an attack right now in the United States. Instead, he said that the single greatest threat in America today is, yes, Donald Rumsfeld. Gore appeared to mean it. Let's hope that the former vice president recovers.
BEGALA: Well, you can attack MoveOn.org. They're a great grassroots organization.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: They're haters, Paul. Come on, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: What I'm struck by is the fact that the haters of al Qaeda have endorsed George W. Bush for president.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Because he has been the best thing to happen to them. His crazy war on Iraq has been a recruiting tool for al Qaeda.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And serious scholars from the International Institute of Strategic Studies...
CARLSON: So irresponsible, so over the top.
BEGALA: ... the Army War College, experts who have studies this have all concluded that Bush's war in Iraq has helped al Qaeda recruit.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: You know what? If you think you're going to win an election saying things like that, fine.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I would rather have John Kerry elected than to have to hear things like that for another four years, because they're so over the top.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, you're going to get both. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, tragic news -- with, rather, tragic news from Iraq and terror alerts here at home, it's good to see that someone somewhere still knows how to have a little fun in American politics.
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee is launching a new game on its Web site, www.DCCC.org. It's called "Republican Survivor" and it allows you to vote a prominent Republican off a cartoon island. Your choices include President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Congressman Tom DeLay, Congresswoman Katherine Harris, and pundit, I think she is, Ann Coulter.
I don't know about you. I'd just as soon leave all of them on an island, rather than have them here in America. We're better off without all of them.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Republicans no doubt will respond with their usual self- righteousness and lack of humor, which is a sad commentary. The party of great presidential wits, from Lincoln to Reagan, is now the province of lemon suckers and whiners.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Of all the half-truths that I've heard on this show, that has got to be the most unbelievable.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I have never met a more humorless, grouchy -- put out that cigarette, put on your seat belt -- group of people than the Democratic Party. I've never been told what to do more than by Democrats, who are so offended by people just relaxing and enjoying themselves.
BEGALA: Go check out the DCCC Web site.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know what? I'm not even complaining about that. As long as you don't compare them to Hitler, I'm fine.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Look, I've never met a more humorless group.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: And you know that that's true.
BEGALA: Than the Republicans. CARLSON: Than feminists? Come on. Who laughs less than feminists?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Except right-wingers.
CARLSON: All right, well, speaking of amusing, the Howard Dean for president campaign was never very realistic. A diminutive, grumpy Vermont governor with a self-control problem for president? It never made a ton of sense.
But if you thought that was farfetched and faith-based, how about the Howard Dean for vice president campaign? Well, there is one. A group of true believers with a ton of free time on their hands has created the National Draft Dean For V.P. Committee, set up its own Web site. DraftDeanForVP.org. They hope to gather 200,000 signatures and force John Kerry to pick him as his running mate.
Kerry of course has no plans to pick Dean, who, after all, is the man who once demanded that Americans not prejudge Osama bin Laden. On the other hand, why shouldn't Kerry pick Dean? Of course he should. The two are beginning to almost exactly sound the same. Dean would bring energy, proven fund-raising talent and an army of enthusiastic, heavily tattooed followers. Howard Dean also believes what he says. And if there's anything John Kerry could use these days, it's genuine conviction about anything, anything. Kerry-Dean '04, it just sounds right.
BEGALA: Why -- all of the sudden, now you're banging on Howard Dean.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The day before yesterday, you were talking about great he is.
CARLSON: I'm not banging on him. I'm supporting...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So you want Dean on the ticket?
CARLSON: I think Dean is an extremist. And that's why I like him.
BEGALA: How about Dick Cheney? How does he rank
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I don't think he is.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: You don't think Dick Cheney is an extremist? Oh, my lord in heaven. (CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Dick Cheney -- Howard Dean did not mislead us into a war. Howard Dean told the truth about the war. Dick Cheney misled us about the war. I'd rather have Howard Dean as my vice president.
CARLSON: No, I agree. We shouldn't prejudge Osama bin Laden. Yes, I agree with that. Good point, Howard Dean. Good point.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: We should go to war in Iraq, when they're not threat whatsoever.
CARLSON: All right, everyone seems to agree that the war on terror is real. And so is the threat. The question is, who do you think will do a better job of taking on the terrorists, President Bush or John Kerry? That's the debate.
Also, a group of actors has taken a sudden interest in a Kentucky state political race. We'll tell you why later on in our show.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Is there another national tragedy in the making this summer, a major terrorist attack designed to kill hundreds, perhaps thousands of Americans? And is the Bush administration doing enough to stop it?
In the CROSSFIRE today, we have Tony Blankley, editorial page editor of "The Washington Times," and also former Congressman Tom Andrews of Maine, national director of the Win Without War Coalition.
BEGALA: Guys, good to see you again.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Tony, the attorney general, the director of the FBI today released new information about an al Qaeda threat. I have no reason to doubt them. I'm sure it's real. I'm glad that they released it. I hope everybody pays attention and does what they can to help out.
But why did they hold this information for a month after they deemed it was credible? TONY BLANKLEY, EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR, "THE WASHINGTON TIMES": I have no idea.
But I know that this whole business of the coded -- the orange, yellow codes, I think got out of hand. Initially, when they use them, everyone started giggling at them. So I think the administration backed off on that and started giving information out just to law enforcement and haven't that sort of level-up, level-down process. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference.
Obviously, they're letting law enforcement know whenever they have information. And I think now it's useful for the public to know because obviously, according to what we've all seen in the news today, they think that the threat is reasonably in the next few months. And so as many Americans keeping their eyes open is useful.
I used to be a prosecutor. And there's no question. Most crimes are solved not by good detective work, but by people seeing something and calling the cops and saying, I see something. So I think it's very important in the next few months that everybody, if they see something suspicious, report it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I agree wholeheartedly. But I'm still wondering why they held this for a month. And I want you to tell me it had nothing to do with the fact that today the Bush campaign released a new ad attacking John Kerry on terrorism.
BLANKLEY: I think today had nothing to do with that ad. That's my theory.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: You don't think John Ashcroft would do such a thing?
BLANKLEY: No, I don't think he's that clever.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tom Andrews, I think even Democrats -- my personal view is that Democrats are attacking George W. Bush on national security and protecting the homeland against terrorism as a predicate in case there is a terrorist attack, so they can say, I told you so.
But I -- well, even you, someone who doesn't support Bush, do you think Bush haters can admit that the fact that we haven't had a terrorist attack since 9/11 reflects well on this administration?
TOM ANDREWS, NATIONAL DIRECTOR, WIN WITHOUT WAR COALITION: Thank God we haven't. But certainly it's not because of the administration.
It's striking to me. A report that came out of "The Washington Post" just a few days ago, Tucker -- and I was really shocked at this. The FBI asked the administration after 9/11 for an emergency amount of funds going in for counterterrorism. This administration cut two- thirds of that request. I mean, why would you possibly do this right after 9/11?
Plus, we now know from the Conference of Mayors that all those promises that we made to those in the front lines of counterterrorism, fire men and women, those in the police forces of our country, those on the front lines, promised enormous amount of resources to help. They haven't received that money.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I don't what fire women you've been talking to, but let me just ask you this.
ANDREWS: And finally, cargo, cargo ports.
CARLSON: Right.
ANDREWS: We're not inspecting cargo ports. I think, frankly, Tucker, that this administration just doesn't believe in government. So it's undermining government, undercutting government as ideology, so we face
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm blinded by your dislike.
Let me just put up a poll that shows you really are sort of far out, not at all in the mainstream.
ANDREWS: Far out.
CARLSON: In the views you just expressed.
ANDREWS: Oh, I see.
CARLSON: Who does a better job on terrorism, who do you trust more, Bush or Kerry, asked "Washington Post" and the ABC pollsters. Bush, 52, Kerry, 39. Most people think, contrary to what you think, that Bush actually is part of the reason we haven't been attacked.
ANDREWS: You know where the president's numbers are going? They're going south. Why?
Because the more people know about the track record of this administration, the more they know about this administration has not done to protect us, the more it knows about how this administration has undermined the very people who are on the front lines of the fight against terrorism, the more support for this administration is dropping; 70 percent-plus just a few months ago, under 60 percent, 50 percent, 49 percent, 48 percent. The more you know, the more you are opposed to this administration and its approach to terrorism.
BEGALA: Tony, we saw at the opening of the show, Scott McClellan, the White House press secretary, saying the president believes we should take the fight to the terrorists over there, rather than fight them here. I embrace that, which is why I supported the war in Afghanistan, where al Qaeda was based. But a lot of experts have looked at the war in Iraq and in fact have said it has helped al Qaeda and hurt our ability to fight al Qaeda. Let me read you a couple examples.
The Associated Press reported this week: "Far from being crippled by the U.S.-led war on terror, al Qaeda has more than 18,000 potential terrorists scattered around the world. And the war in Iraq is swelling its ranks, the International Institute of Strategic Studies said in its annual survey of world affairs."
And a report published by the Army War College called the war in Iraq -- quote -- "an unnecessary, preventative war" -- unquote -- that has -- quote -- "diverted attention and resources away from securing the homeland against further assault by an undeterrable al Qaeda. The Iraq war was a detour from the war on terrorism."
BLANKLEY: Separating out the policy dispute over whether we should have gone to a war in Iraq or not, we've debated this, we'll debate it forever, on the specific point of encouraging more terrorists to rally to al Qaeda's side, I take that point, but I think it was inevitable.
I think, when we went to Afghanistan to engage the enemy, that also was a propaganda for al Qaeda, to say we're going against a Muslim country and to help recruit. Any time nation's forces engage in battle, as we are now, as -- when the South attacked Fort Sumter, that rallied young Northern boys to come and volunteer fight.
It's inevitable that, when you engage the enemy, both sides gain propaganda advantages. They gain recruitment. It's a temporary process.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: Let me just finish.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: And the argument that it hasn't induced any more Arab young boys to join is silly. The argument that we could have avoided this by just staying home I think is equally silly, because, at some point...
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: At some point, we have to do what Kissinger said, which is go into the belly of the beast in the Middle East and try to change the circumstances there, because that is the source of the danger.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Somebody who knows a lot more about terrorism than Henry Kissinger is Richard Clarke. He served President Reagan.
BLANKLEY: I don't agree with you on that at all.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He served President Bush, President Reagan, President Clinton.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: I disagree fundamentally that Clarke knows more than Kissinger about
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's probably one of the world's great experts on terrorism.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: Unfortunately, he's flawed
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: What he has argued is that going into Iraq when we had al Qaeda in Afghanistan was akin to FDR attacking Mexico after we were bombed by Japan.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: No. No, actually, what it is, its akin to FDR and Churchill attacking Italy because they couldn't get to Germany yet.
You very often start a war where you can get into the war and you go towards the final capital, which is usually the last battle of the war. So the United States didn't engage in the German territory until late in 1944, and -- because we had to go first to North Africa and then to Italy and then working our way up and building up our forces. So the argument that you fight by indirection is wrong, well, that's inevitably the way you usually fight
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I want to ask you a question.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: You said a moment ago that the fact that we have not been attacked or had a major attack since September 11, '01, had nothing to do with precautions taken by the Bush administration. I'm wondering, what is your explanation then?
ANDREWS: Well, first of all, we have a lot of very, very brave and courageous people on the front lines throughout the world and throughout this country that are doing a damn good job in protecting us.
CARLSON: Serving at the direction of the Bush administration, correct?
ANDREWS: Well, despite the fact that they're not getting the support that they need, the resources that they were promised, despite the fact they've been undermined from the word go from this administration, they are doing one heck of a job.
And we should take our hats off to them and support them. But I think that they need more.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Wait. So government employees that work for the Bush administration, but not the Bush administration.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I'm a little confused on this issue. Are they disobeying the administration in what they're doing and that's how they are getting the job done?
ANDREWS: You know, they're patriots. They believe in this country. They believe in the families of this country. And they're trying to support the families of this country and protect them, despite the fact that they're not getting the leadership from the top that they need to do the job.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: And the point and his advisers are not patriots, is that what you're saying?
ANDREWS: I'm saying that those people on the front line are patriots.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: And they are being undermined by this administration.
CARLSON: It's a question. Can you answer it?
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: They are being undermined by the administration. Again, the facts are this.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me inject some facts in here.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Here's how the president has underfunded. First, he's cut first-responders' grants by $207 million. He cut firefighters' grants by 246, cut state and local law enforcement by almost $1 billion, cut the cops program by 87 percent, eliminated the Byrne law enforcement grants. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This is what Congressman Andrews is talking about.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The president talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk.
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: Look, first of all, as you know, you were a former congressman. You know there are an awful lot of proposals for spending.
I watched what David Obey, who is the ranking Democrat on the Appropriations Committee, did on this issue. He did have a point. And I agreed with Obey when he proposed it. We needed to spend a little bit more money on cargo inspection. Right now, we're doing 2 to 3 percent of all the cargo containers coming into the country. He'd like to get it up to 4 to 5 percent.
That, by the way, is the range. At any level of spending, 95 percent of all cargo containers are not going to come into the country, even by the proposal of the ranking Democrat on the Appropriations Committee. There are limits to what we can do on the spending. But
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: We'll come back to this in the next segment. I'm sorry to do this, Congressman Andrews. I'm sorry, Mr. Blankley. We'll come right back to this.
We'll come back and we'll put our guests in the "Rapid Fire," where we'll speed it up even more. I'll ask Mr. Blankley why America's police officers have dumped President Bush and endorsed John Kerry.
And then a jury has come back with a verdict in the Oklahoma City bombing conspiracy trial of Terry Nichols. Wolf Blitzer will report right after the break.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, an ominous warning from the attorney general, John Ashcroft. Al Qaeda plans to attack the United States hard within the next few months.
Terry Nichols is convicted of murder and could face the death penalty for his role in the Oklahoma City bombing. And former Vice President Al Gore comes out swinging at George W. Bush. Just wait until you hear what the former vice president had to say.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf.
Time now for "Rapid Fire," where the questions come even faster than President Bush can come up with excuses for underfunding homeland security.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: We're talking about the threat of another potential terrorist attack here in the United States, perhaps as early as this summer, and whether our president or Senator Kerry can do a better job protecting America.
In the CROSSFIRE, Tony Blankley. He's the editorial editor of "The Washington Times." And former congressman from Maine, Democrat Tom Andrews, director of the Win Without War Coalition.
CARLSON: Tom, in his speech today, Al Gore today said virtually nothing about al Qaeda, but he did say this -- quote -- "Our nation is especially at risk every single day that Rumsfeld remains as secretary of defense."
That's extreme rhetoric, is it not? Can you just call it what it is?
ANDREWS: I think Secretary Rumsfeld has been an extreme secretary of defense.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: More dangerous than al Qaeda?
ANDREWS: Oh, come on. This guy...
CARLSON: You tell me. I'm just quoting Al Gore.
ANDREWS: Tucker, 25 percent -- according to "Newsweek" magazine, 25 percent of the deaths of our soldiers in Iraq were a direct result of the fact that our Defense Department did not provide them with the support that they needed, with the armor underneath their vehicles that would have saved their lives.
That is unconscionable. And anyone who is responsible, and he is responsible for going in lean and mean and cheap into Iraq, who has lost so many hundreds...
(CROSSTALK) CARLSON: It wasn't Clinton who cut the military in half or anything. Come on.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: The lives of hundreds of these kids. He should be ousted.
CARLSON: Literally did.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... Mr. Blankley into this.
The International Brotherhood of Police Officers, which endorsed Governor Bush in 2000, has switched to support John Kerry. They say that President Bush has turned his back on law enforcement and underfunded them in the fight against terrorism. How do you respond?
BLANKLEY: I'll be willing to bet that Bush will get a big majority of the police officers' vote. This is a decision by the union bosses and they go back and forth, as union bosses do.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So the union bosses, when they support
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: I said they go back and forth as they see their interests. But the voters -- but the actual line officers are going to vote as they always do, overwhelmingly Republican.
I'll make one point about the inadequate armor.
(BELL RINGING)
BLANKLEY: In World War II, the Sherman tanks were known as death traps. Do you think FDR and his secretary of defense were irresponsible because they got those Sherman tanks out there that were underarmored? The truth is that
(CROSSTALK)
BLANKLEY: ... that in time of war, not everything is done.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: It was a war of choice. It was a war of choice.
(CROSSTALK)
ANDREWS: It was a war of choice.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: The good news is, we have enough for another show. The bad news is, we're out of time for this one.
Thank you both very much, Tom Andrews, Tony Blankley. Thank you. We appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, the state of Kentucky has been flooded with money from Hollywood lately. We will tell you why.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
Well, here's proof that it pays to hit your political ambitions to a star. Nick Clooney, a Democratic candidate for Congress in Kentucky, is raking in the cash from Hollywood, California. Of course, he has the connections that count. His son is Hollywood actor and star of HBO's "K Street," George Clooney.
And the actor's star power is evident in the contributions to his dad. Some of the names on the contribution list, Kevin Spacey, Kevin Costner, Melissa Gilbert, Renee Zellweger, Michael Douglas and Bette Midler, none of whom live in Kentucky. And, thank heaven, Barbra Streisand not on the list.
BEGALA: But Mr. Clooney has. I've had the pleasure of going out to northern Kentucky, seeing Nick Clooney. He is a brilliant, gifted guy. He looks just like George is going to look in 25 years. So that may help him as well. But he will be a great congressman. He will win that race.
CARLSON: As long as Barbra Streisand is not giving to his campaign, I don't have a problem with it.
BEGALA: I love -- why do you hate Barbra Streisand?
CARLSON: I don't hate her at all. She's just annoying and I've seen enough of her.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This is the man who interviewed Britney Spears and he doesn't like Barbra Streisand?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Look, if you want to become a part of the ultimate "Fireback," here's how you do it. Log on tomorrow, Thursday, at 4:30 Eastern for another edition of CROSSFIRE interactive Thursdays. Give us your feedback while you watch the show and you can become eligible -- get this -- to win prizes, including an all-expense paid trip to see Tucker and me here in CROSSFIRE live in Washington. Just go to CNN.com/ITV.
That's it for tonight -- for today. From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. That trip does not include liquor.
Join us again tomorrow for CROSSFIRE. See you then.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
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