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CNN Crossfire
Who Will Be John Kerry's Running Mate?
Aired July 05, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE: on left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Has he or hasn't he picked a running mate?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DICK GEPHARDHT (D), MISSOURI: Just glad to be here and I'll refer all questions to the Kerry campaign.
GOV. TOM VILSACK (D), IOWA: To the extent my name is out there, I really see it as a compliment to the entire state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: How much longer until the secret is out. This is no holiday for politics, so we'll see what a pair of political insiders are hearing about the decision everyone is waiting for.
Today on CROSSFIRE, live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
PAUL BEGALA, HOST: Hello everybody, and happy fifth of July. We here at CROSSFIRE are not taking a holiday today so that you can. We are keeping constant watch on a developing -- very important political story: Who will John Kerry pick to be the next vice president of the United States?
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Interestingly, this is perhaps the only case where Senator Kerry can't change his mind. And so the agonizing is, as you can imagine, endless. Which means we have plenty of time for the political briefing in television, our "CROSSFIRE Political Alert."
John Kerry is expected to announce his running mate this week, possibly as early as tomorrow. To its credit, the Kerry campaign has been tight-lipped about the selection process. But there have leaks. Informed speculation points to three names: Congressman Dick Gephardt; Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack; and especially Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.
Now ask yourself, what do these three people have in common apart from the fact they're all elected officials? That's right, they're all privileged white guys, exactly the demographic the Democratic Party officially seeks to displace from power.
To be true to his beliefs, Kerry should have picked a disabled lesbian Native American abortionist who moonlights as an anti-smoking crusader. But he did not. Do you see the irony? Here's my question, whatever happened to diversity, to inclusion, to looking like America? Kerry couldn't find a single woman worthy of the ticket, not one? A single running mate of color?
Apparently he couldn't or didn't want to. It will be interesting to hear him explain why.
BEGALA: Of course, the Republican idea of diversity is two from two different oil companies. Bush here and Cheney there...
CARLSON: No, but the difference is...
BEGALA: No, no, wait a minute, first off, we don't know who he's going to pick. There hasn't -- I, for one would like...
CARLSON: Well, I demand that he picks a woman of color.
BEGALA: Frank Raines who is not yet a woman, but if you'd like, we can talk to a surgeon. But -- no, Frank is African-American. You know what, I'd have put Charlie Rangel on the list who's the ranking member....
CARLSON: But he's going to pick a rich white guy, which is so disappointing to those of us who believed, Paul.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, on a more serious note. Radical Iraqi cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, today reiterated his commitment to violence, vowing to use -- rather, vowing to continue to fight U.S. troops "to the last drop of our blood." It seems to be a reversal from other recent comments in which Sadr indicated that his thugs would lay down their arms if they were granted amnesty. Eleven American troops have been killed in Iraq since -- in the seven days, rather, since the so-called sovereignty was hander over to Iraqis.
And meanwhile, American-supported Iraqi interim government today postponed for the second time a planned unveiling of a planned security strategy for Iraq, perhaps because they don't have a new security strategy for Iraq. But they do have 130,000 of our troops stranded half a world away without enough allies, without enough armor, without a president who has a clue as to how to win this things.
CARLSON: Well, here's a strategy, Paul. Why not arrest and/or kill Muqtada al-Sadr? I mean, I think we should have done that last year when it was obvious that he was leading a movement against the United States that killing American soldiers.
I mean, I'd be interested to know -- that is a strategy and we've should've pursued it. We shouldn't have...
BEGALA: Well, so why is the Bush-appointed government in Iraq now wanting to make nice with him and give him amnesty? CARLSON: That's an excellent question. We went there to root out the terrorists, and then all of a sudden to give them amnesty is a complete outrage, in my view, a complete outrage. I want to know what John Kerry would do differently, though. He hasn't told us.
BEGALA: He has, actually. Go to his Web site, you'll his plan.
CARLSON: Well, speaking of John Kerry, he grew up largely in Europe, where his father was a foreign service officer. For a time, Kerry went to boarding school in Switzerland before heading off to five years at tony St. Paul's and then Yale. Most of this is widely known. None of it is a secret, which made it all the more puzzling the other day when Kerry with a straight face described his childhood this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I was 12 years old, my passion was being allowed to go out and sit on the John Deere and drive it around the field and plough. And I learned as a kid what it was like to look in back of me and see those furrows and see that pattern and feel a sense of accomplishment, and end up dusty and dirty and tired, but feeling great looking back at that field that you ploughed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: That field that you ploughed. Well, keep in mind that Al Gore also grew up privileged, at a hotel, in fact, and attended elite private schools, once also bragged about his years ploughing on the farm. People laughed, but who knows, maybe Gore was on the next mule team over from John Kerry at the time.
BEGALA: Well, first off, it happens to be true. People have lots of different life experiences.
CARLSON: Pathetic, Paul, it's pathetic.
BEGALA: As you point out, people do know that he was raised in privilege. They also should know that he's had some exposure to...
CARLSON: And he was raised poor, too.
BEGALA: ... the farm. Excuse me, I can't talk while you're interrupting.
CARLSON: That's he was raised poor...
BEGALA: How about George W. Bush, Harvard and Yale and he plays rancher? If he's a rancher in Texas, I'm a Hasidic diamond merchant. He's the biggest phony I have ever seen, Mr. Greenjeans Bush.
Well, speaking of our president, the White House budget office says that only a tiny fraction of the $18 billion Congress appropriated to rebuild Iraq is actually going where it is supposed to be going. According to "The Washington Post," I'm quoting "The Post," quote: "Thus far," according to the report, "nothing from the aid package has been spent on construction, health care, sanitation and water projects. More money has been spent on administration than all projects related to education, human rights, democracy and governance," unquote.
So, Mr. President, spare us your pious lectures about how we invaded a country that was no threat to us in order to rescue its poor people. Precious little is going to rebuilding feeding, caring and rebuilding of a shattered nation. A whole lot is going to Halliburton.
CARLSON: You know what, that is so unfair and may I say stupid, actually.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... to waste our money on Halliburton instead of people who need our help.
CARLSON: Paul, let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. To argue as I think you just have, that we're not doing enough for people in Iraq, is a complete outrage. In my view, what we've done for the people of Iraq it isn't worth it. Nevertheless to suggest that we haven't made their lives better in tangible ways as well as in deeper ways is a total lie. Now...
BEGALA: I'm just saying George Bush has now broken promises to two countries, America and Iraq.
CARLSON: He hasn't broken promises to Iraqis...
BEGALA: He can't tell the truth...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He pledged to rebuild that country, Tucker, he invaded it which he shouldn't have done. He should be rebuilding it.
CARLSON: OK. You're going to have to stop me again, that's fine.
BEGALA: Has John Kerry picked his running mate? Well, CNN's getting conflicting reports. But if he has, then Kerry ain't talking yet. We will pick the brains of two of the best political insiders we know about who Senator Kerry should, when he may make that pick, and what the impact will be on the race for president.
And once you've been viceroy of Iraq, what do you do for an encore? Well, we'll tell you what Paul Bremer has on his agenda next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. It's a working holiday Monday for us, but Senator John Kerry and his wife Teresa are hosting a barbecue in Pittsburgh on this holiday. While the good senator is grilling burgers -- I lost my microphone here. Tucker, why don't you...
CARLSON: All right. The press is grilling Senator Kerry about his choice for vice president. In comments (UNINTELLIGIBLE) just a short time ago, Kerry invited everyone to come to the rally tomorrow. He said, we're going to have a little fun tomorrow at 9 a.m. and then head back on the trail. Interrupting their holiday to step into the CROSSFIRE today, Republican strategist and former Justice Department spokeswoman, Barbara Comstock, along with former White House director of communications and current national chair of the Democratic National Committee women's vote center, Ann Lewis.
Welcome both. Paul's not going to have his microphone for the show. So I think it will improve the tenor.
ANN LEWIS, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CMTE.: You're trying anything to get the last word.
CARLSON: Yes we are...
LEWIS: Anything at all.
CARLSON: Anything. Now Ann, it sounds to me like John Edwards may or may not be, but it sounds likely that he could be. Anyway, and I think it's probably a smart choice, but it's striking the contempt -- the obvious contempt that John Kerry has for him. I want to read you a quote, you're familiar, from this February, he said -- caught by "The New York Times," he said: "Edwards says he's the only one who can win states in states in the South. He can't win his own state." In other words, he's pathetic, he's like Al Gore, he's a figure of contempt and fun.
LEWIS: Let's just go back a moment and say they were competing against one another for the presidential nomination. This will shock you, Tucker, but when people run against each other for office, they sometimes say harsh things about each other. So I will let you all in on that. It's OK.
CARLSON: Well I think that's a -- no, no, that's a fair point. I have a whole list of contemptuous things John Kerry has said about John Edwards. But I think your point is reasonably...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... contemptuous things...
CARLSON: That's right.
LEWIS: I remember George Bush...
CARLSON: No, no, you're right.
LEWIS: ... about Ronald Reagan if you want back there.
CARLSON: Your point is fair. That's why I want to go to quote that's, I don't know, just about two weeks old. This Chris Heinz, he's Kerry's stepson and an adviser to the campaign. This is what he told "The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette" on June 17. Quote: "I was very pro-Edwards in the spring, but now I think we need someone with stronger credentials on foreign policy.
In other words, the guy is a lightweight. He was a trial lawyer specializing in Jacuzzi cases just six years ago, and now wants do be vice president.
LEWIS: Let me be very clear. One, that Jacuzzi case that you're making a joke of is a child who was tragically harmed.
CARLSON: Oh, I know, I've heard that, yes.
LEWIS: And John Edwards went into court and got some compensation for the parents and the child. That was a great...
CARLSON: And for himself, yes.
LEWIS: So let's just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fact there for a lot of Americans, keeping that quote...
CARLSON: Well, let's address Chris Heinz's quote here.
LEWIS: Well, Chris Heinz, as far as I know, is a loved and valued member of the Kerry family, but I haven't yet heard that he was in charge of making the vice presidential selection.
CARLSON: Well, he ought to be.
BEGALA: Barbara, let me bring you in. And one of the key states in this election, of course, is going to be Ohio. Right, if the last election was Florida, Florida, Florida, as my buddy Tim Russert said, I think this one is likely to be Ohio. So I was particularly impressed when Denny White (ph), who's my state party chairman -- Democratic chairman of the state, said this about Edwards: "He is my hero. Some people have it and some people don't. He's got the touch. He came to our state dinner, he was talking to over a thousand people, but it was as if he was having a one-on-one conversation with everyone there. I don't know what he's got, but he needs to bottle it.
Yes, he does, and Dick Cheney needs to drink it, doesn't he? Dick Cheney has a deficit in charisma compared to John Edwards.
BARBARA COMSTOCK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think, as you now say, Edwards is one of the top contenders and I think John Kerry does have a preference for picking wealthy partners in his life. So I think when you look at the line-up there, he's very comfortable with people with beachfront mansions which the multi-million dollar trial lawyer John Edwards does have.
But I think there may be a reason he might leave him at the altar because he doesn't want somebody who does outshine him like that. Which may be -- I think he's floating the Vilsack thing really just as gratitude, but I think he may go to Gephardt, in part because it's stable, reliable, I think it's also dull and stale. And of course, he said that Gephardt wanted to raise taxes on middle America which, of course, John Kerry does, too. BEGALA: Let me follow through with Edwards. We'll get to Gephardt and Vilsack. But Tucker, a moment ago, the first thing out of your mouth, well, he's a trial lawyer. And as Ann pointed out, he is rich, he came from poverty. He grew up to become wealthy by taking on corporations that particularly harmed children. Now how does that match up against Dick Cheney who got wealthy running Halliburton which traded with Iraq, Iran and Libya?
COMSTOCK: You know, Paul, I know you...
BEGALA: Which would you prefer that your child do for a living?
COMSTOCK: Dick Cheney...
BEGALA: Trade with Saddam Hussein or protect children from companies that harm them?
COMSTOCK: John Kerry himself, not just Chris Heinz, but John Kerry himself pointed out that John Edwards does not have national security experience. And I know in 2002, you sat here on this stage, and your partner James Carville had a garbage can on his head because we won elections in 2002. And part of that was because Dick Cheney was going out. He campaigned for over 60 or 70 House races and we won against -- we went against the whole historical tide and won seats because Dick Cheney is an asset to this ticket. He will be this year. He was in 2002. And that trash can, I know, is not a good moment for you, Paul. So Dick Cheney, you watch and see. He's stable, he's solid. And we have 5.6 percent unemployment rate...
BEGALA: You realize when you say he's stable and solid, you do sound like a cardiologist. We do wish him good health.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Ann, as the chair of the Women's Vote Center at the DNC, I know you noticed as I noticed that really no women appear to be on the short list. Maybe John Kerry will pick a woman. It doesn't look likely. He certainly hasn't had the graciousness to really mention any. And instead, it has been talked up, John Edwards. I'm wondering, could he not pick at least a woman on the short list? I can think of a whole of women: Nancy Pelosi Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein who served longer than John Edwards in the Senate.
LEWIS: Yes, but, you know what, I think John Kerry has been more gracious in that he's not talking about these names. Can we all be honest hear and say this short list we're talking about is being discussed by a lot of people who are not John Kerry. And what he said is, I'm not going to get into listing names of people publicly. I think that was absolutely the right way to do it.
CARLSON: I agree.
LEWIS: And I think it ought to give people real confidence in his judgment that he's handling this decision in the way...
CARLSON: I agree with you. LEWIS: ... keeping it quiet, making...
CARLSON: However...
LEWIS: Can I just make a...
CARLSON: Yes, please, do.
LEWIS: ... something of a contrast in the way Dick Cheney managed to get on the ticket...
CARLSON: Oh please, right, I know, Dick Cheney, right.
LEWIS: ... George Bush asked him to run the vice presidential search.
CARLSON: I think that was four or five years ago.
LEWIS: ... and he looked around and around...
CARLSON: May I ask you a question?
LEWIS: ... and decided he was best possible candidate?
CARLSON: Right, I know, I know.
LEWIS: We've got a little different situation.
CARLSON: I know. Some of us have gotten over that though because it was quite a long time ago. Let me ask you this question then. If it turns out that he does not pick a woman, passes over all these talented woman, Carol Moseley Braun I think would be a marvelous running mate for John Kerry, why won't you be outraged? Or will you apologize again for him again as Democrats apologized for Clinton who mistreated women, will you?
LEWIS: No. I'm going to say the same thing I have said before, which is the true test for women is will we have a president who governs in our interest? Will we have a president who understands that for an awful lot of women, issues like equal pay, because we're still not getting equal pay, issues like after-school care, because we're worried about where our children will be after school. These are issues of daily life.
And you know what, John Kerry, as president, understands what women are concerned about. He is going to make policy that makes a difference for women's lives. I'm very excited about that. And meanwhile we're going to continue to nominate and elect women to statewide office. A couple of years from now, we'll have women on the ticket.
CARLSON: Good luck.
BEGALA: Barbara, let me ask you about Dick Gephardt, not a woman, he's a man, and the audience should know my old boss, back in '88 I worked for Dick Gephardt and made him what he is today, which is broke and largely out of office. Dick Gephardt this morning, this is the silly season, CNN and I would imagine other media actually staked out his home to see what was going on. This is what he was doing, Dick and Jane, and they really are the all-American couple even if you don't like them ideologically, here's Dick Gephardt. We see him, well, he's walking his dog. And In fact, on that walk, Jane is walking the dog and there is Dick, you know what he's doing? He's doing exactly what the next president is going to have to do to clean up after Bush and Cheney.
CARLSON: With his hands, Paul.
BEGALA: What better preparation to clean up the mess that we've been left by the current administration. No, but that's a regular guy.
CARLSON: But don't shake his hand.
BEGALA: If ever there were politician who wasn't full of himself it's Dick Gephardt.
COMSTOCK: I know, and dealing with John Kerry that's probably what he has going against him. I mean, again, he doesn't have the beachfront estate and the wealthy partners that Kerry likes to hang out with. But you know, Paul, you look at the record we have right now. The unemployment rate is the same it was when Bill Clinton elected. We've had 11 percent growth in after-tax...
BEGALA: He was elected because his predecessor did such a bad job...
LEWIS: Say that again, because I don't think it works the way you meant it.
COMSTOCK: No, it's 5 -- it's the same. It's the same as when you guys were arguing that we should be -- you should be re-elected. And the economy is growing, if I can finish. We've had an 11 percent growth in after-tax income. John Kerry and all his running mates say they want to raise taxes on the American people. The American people don't want to go back to that.
BEGALA: We've got to be fair. Only on the rich. I know you think all -- the only Americans you talk to are rich, Barbara, but actually there are a whole lot of us who make less than $200,000 a year who will get a tax break from Kerry.
COMSTOCK: John Kerry pointed out that Dick Gephardt wanted to raise the taxes on the middle class. Now that he didn't acknowledge that he himself does, also. But the reason we've had the growth in the economy that we have had is because of the tax cuts which go to small businesses which creating 70 percent of the jobs -- 70 percent of the new jobs are coming from small businesses. And John Kerry and any of these running mates want to turn around and slap taxes on small businessmen who you call the rich, who are creating jobs...
(CROSSTALK) CARLSON: I'm sorry, let me break in. No matter who John Kerry picks, it looks like it will be tomorrow, it will be his second choice; because we know, you pointed out the Kerry campaign hasn't leaked a lot. And that's true and good for them. But the one thing that did get out, was leaked, is that John McCain was Kerry's first pick. Now I think this is interesting, because McCain, despite a lot of coverage you read about him, is not a liberal, he's a pretty conservative Republican. He is a conservative Republican who was completely for the Iraq invasion. Isn't this evidence -- and Kerry wanted to pick him as his running mate, that Kerry doesn't believe in anything? Or why would he pick a guy who disagrees with him on the core points?
LEWIS: As I understand it, what we're talking about here is what other people have said, is that John Kerry, who has a lot of respect for John McCain, who worked with him on some very important issues, they really worked together in the Senate on a lot of things, who respects his, A, fiscal responsibility and B, his strong position on national security, thought he should be considered if he would agree to be considered. They had some conversations, John McCain said, you know what, I'm a Republican, I'm sticking with my party, end of story.
CARLSON: But Ann, as you know, McCain's position on Iraq -- and this election is about Iraq as you know, it's the issue in this election, and McCain's position on Iraq is completely at the opposite end of the spectrum from John Kerry's position. Don't you think it's a little unprincipled to be considering a man who completely disagrees with you on the central issue?
LEWIS: No...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: John McCain's position on Iraq, like John Kerry, they say, we're here, we have to succeed, we have to build a safe, a stable, pluralistic Iraq. We should have more troops there. That is also John McCain's position.
CARLSON: And George Bush's.
LEWIS: No. George Bush is not asking for more troops. What we're now doing is sort of...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Sorry to interrupt. But we're almost out of time in the segment. I want to the name of Tom Vilsack, the governor of Iowa. You guys must be scared of him. He's a rags to riches story. He was an orphan, raised in Pennsylvania, a swing state, now the governor of Iowa having been a small-town mayor. I mean, that's kind of all- American success story, isn't it?
COMSTOCK: Well, you know, I think he's creating about as much buzz as your average house fly out there. I think they were just putting his name out there because he kept John Kerry alive in Iowa by not endorsing Howard Dean when everybody else, Al Gore, people were getting on -- but I think one of the things you -- that is really key, aside from Tom Vilsack, I mean, if he gets on then you won't have two Al Gore castoffs for vice president on the ticket, because John Kerry, Gephardt and John Edwards were all in the Veepstakes in 2000. They are Al Gore's castoffs.
CARLSON: That was pathetic. I know, you're absolutely right. Thanks, Barbara, for bringing that up. It's poignant almost.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Next, our guests face the "Rapid Fire" and we will ask about the dark horse candidate who just might surprise everyone tomorrow. We're crossing our fingers.
New claims from Iraq about the fate of a captured U.S. Marine. We'll have the latest right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Drew Griffin of the CNN Center in Atlanta. Coming up at the top of the hour, there's a dramatic new claim late this afternoon about a U.S. Marine who was kidnapped in Iraq. Corporal Wassef Hassoun said to be in a safe place.
A source says John Kerry has picked a vice presidential running mate. Who could it be?
And a new report says wives are catching up to their husbands when it comes to infidelity. Those stories and much more are just minutes on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Time now for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions and get answers even faster than Dick Cheney is going to drop the F-bomb when he learns who he is going to have to debate this fall.
In the CROSSFIRE, Republican strategist, former Justice Department spokeswoman Barbara Comstock, along with former White House Communications Director Ann Lewis. She is also the chair of the Democratic National Committee's women's vote center.
CARLSON: Now Ann, John Kerry could possibly announce his running mate as early as tomorrow. When that happens and it's not Hillary Clinton, I suspect you'll be as offended as I am that he's overlooked this talented, wildly popular, qualified person, simply because he's too embarrassed of her, that's appalling, isn't it?
LEWIS: I am going to be so excited that we have a presidential team that's going to bring the issues and concerns of women to the White House in contrast to the administration we've had where women in middle class families are getting squeezed, where kids are getting cut and dropped from, again, after-school programs. So this is going to be very exciting. You know what, Hillary is a great senator, she is going to go on being a great senator. She's going to be an important partner in making public policy.
CARLSON: But he should pick a rich white guy? BEGALA: Barbara, who do you fear most on the ticket?
COMSTOCK: I don't fear any of them because again like I said, these are Al Gore castoffs. These are people who didn't make the Al Gore cut at the end. You don't have...
BEGALA: I like an overconfident adversary, Barbara, I like an overconfident adversary.
COMSTOCK: ... somebody as serious as Joe Lieberman being considered this year and I think that says a lot about how far the party has moved to the left that they can't take anybody out of the sensible center. They have to move so far to the left to unknown people.
CARLSON: Ann, Richard Cohen had a fascinating, I thought, thoughtful column this week when he said the problem with Kerry's strategy, being coy and building up all this expectation about the Veep choice, is that if it turns out to be John Edwards, people are going to be let down. He needs to -- having built it up, he needs to pick someone random and interesting like Carol Moseley Brown, do you agree with that?
LEWIS: No. I don't. And let me say, I think -- and we just discussed this, that he's been going about this just the way he should. He's acting the way a president should. When you have an important decision to make, keep it to yourself. Get some people you trust to gather all the information and nobody doubts that John Kerry at the end of the day is going to make this decision by himself based on what's good for the country.
BEGALA: That will have to be the last one. Ann Lewis from the Democratic National Committee, thank you very much. Barbara Comstock from the Republican Party, thank you as well.
Well, critics say that he made a hash out of Iraq. So next, we will find out what former viceroy Paul Bremer has planned as an Epicurean encore. You're not going to believe this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back. Paul Bremer has proved he can stand the heat. So now he wants into kitchen naturally. Bremer, of course, spent the last year running Iraq for the Bush administration. Now that his job is finally over and Bremer is out of the frying pan, he wants to enroll in Washington's Academy of Cuisine.
Bremer, it turns out, is a chef. Maybe the Baghdad heat did get to him because Bremer says he wants to work on his French cuisine. Maybe he can perfect a sauce for freedom fries. Good for him, you know what...
BEGALA: Good for him? How about the 138,000 guys that can't even grill hot dogs for their kids, let's get them home. Let's get a new president here.
CARLSON: You know, Paul, that's not...
BEGALA: No, no, he cut and run after making a hash of the thing...
CARLSON: You know what, you haven't gone over there to help. This is a guy who had a career and went over there to help.
BEGALA: I didn't send 138,000 kids over there either, Tucker.
CARLSON: Neither did he, Paul. He was a civil servant who came out of retirement to help our country...
BEGALA: And he didn't help, did he?
CARLSON: Don't blame him, that's outrageous.
BEGALA: Go cook something, Mr. Baster.
Well, from the left, I'm Paul Begala, that's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson, join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. Have a great night.
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Aired July 5, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE: on left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: Has he or hasn't he picked a running mate?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DICK GEPHARDHT (D), MISSOURI: Just glad to be here and I'll refer all questions to the Kerry campaign.
GOV. TOM VILSACK (D), IOWA: To the extent my name is out there, I really see it as a compliment to the entire state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: How much longer until the secret is out. This is no holiday for politics, so we'll see what a pair of political insiders are hearing about the decision everyone is waiting for.
Today on CROSSFIRE, live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
PAUL BEGALA, HOST: Hello everybody, and happy fifth of July. We here at CROSSFIRE are not taking a holiday today so that you can. We are keeping constant watch on a developing -- very important political story: Who will John Kerry pick to be the next vice president of the United States?
TUCKER CARLSON, HOST: Interestingly, this is perhaps the only case where Senator Kerry can't change his mind. And so the agonizing is, as you can imagine, endless. Which means we have plenty of time for the political briefing in television, our "CROSSFIRE Political Alert."
John Kerry is expected to announce his running mate this week, possibly as early as tomorrow. To its credit, the Kerry campaign has been tight-lipped about the selection process. But there have leaks. Informed speculation points to three names: Congressman Dick Gephardt; Iowa Governor Tom Vilsack; and especially Senator John Edwards of North Carolina.
Now ask yourself, what do these three people have in common apart from the fact they're all elected officials? That's right, they're all privileged white guys, exactly the demographic the Democratic Party officially seeks to displace from power.
To be true to his beliefs, Kerry should have picked a disabled lesbian Native American abortionist who moonlights as an anti-smoking crusader. But he did not. Do you see the irony? Here's my question, whatever happened to diversity, to inclusion, to looking like America? Kerry couldn't find a single woman worthy of the ticket, not one? A single running mate of color?
Apparently he couldn't or didn't want to. It will be interesting to hear him explain why.
BEGALA: Of course, the Republican idea of diversity is two from two different oil companies. Bush here and Cheney there...
CARLSON: No, but the difference is...
BEGALA: No, no, wait a minute, first off, we don't know who he's going to pick. There hasn't -- I, for one would like...
CARLSON: Well, I demand that he picks a woman of color.
BEGALA: Frank Raines who is not yet a woman, but if you'd like, we can talk to a surgeon. But -- no, Frank is African-American. You know what, I'd have put Charlie Rangel on the list who's the ranking member....
CARLSON: But he's going to pick a rich white guy, which is so disappointing to those of us who believed, Paul.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, on a more serious note. Radical Iraqi cleric, Muqtada al-Sadr, today reiterated his commitment to violence, vowing to use -- rather, vowing to continue to fight U.S. troops "to the last drop of our blood." It seems to be a reversal from other recent comments in which Sadr indicated that his thugs would lay down their arms if they were granted amnesty. Eleven American troops have been killed in Iraq since -- in the seven days, rather, since the so-called sovereignty was hander over to Iraqis.
And meanwhile, American-supported Iraqi interim government today postponed for the second time a planned unveiling of a planned security strategy for Iraq, perhaps because they don't have a new security strategy for Iraq. But they do have 130,000 of our troops stranded half a world away without enough allies, without enough armor, without a president who has a clue as to how to win this things.
CARLSON: Well, here's a strategy, Paul. Why not arrest and/or kill Muqtada al-Sadr? I mean, I think we should have done that last year when it was obvious that he was leading a movement against the United States that killing American soldiers.
I mean, I'd be interested to know -- that is a strategy and we've should've pursued it. We shouldn't have...
BEGALA: Well, so why is the Bush-appointed government in Iraq now wanting to make nice with him and give him amnesty? CARLSON: That's an excellent question. We went there to root out the terrorists, and then all of a sudden to give them amnesty is a complete outrage, in my view, a complete outrage. I want to know what John Kerry would do differently, though. He hasn't told us.
BEGALA: He has, actually. Go to his Web site, you'll his plan.
CARLSON: Well, speaking of John Kerry, he grew up largely in Europe, where his father was a foreign service officer. For a time, Kerry went to boarding school in Switzerland before heading off to five years at tony St. Paul's and then Yale. Most of this is widely known. None of it is a secret, which made it all the more puzzling the other day when Kerry with a straight face described his childhood this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: When I was 12 years old, my passion was being allowed to go out and sit on the John Deere and drive it around the field and plough. And I learned as a kid what it was like to look in back of me and see those furrows and see that pattern and feel a sense of accomplishment, and end up dusty and dirty and tired, but feeling great looking back at that field that you ploughed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARLSON: That field that you ploughed. Well, keep in mind that Al Gore also grew up privileged, at a hotel, in fact, and attended elite private schools, once also bragged about his years ploughing on the farm. People laughed, but who knows, maybe Gore was on the next mule team over from John Kerry at the time.
BEGALA: Well, first off, it happens to be true. People have lots of different life experiences.
CARLSON: Pathetic, Paul, it's pathetic.
BEGALA: As you point out, people do know that he was raised in privilege. They also should know that he's had some exposure to...
CARLSON: And he was raised poor, too.
BEGALA: ... the farm. Excuse me, I can't talk while you're interrupting.
CARLSON: That's he was raised poor...
BEGALA: How about George W. Bush, Harvard and Yale and he plays rancher? If he's a rancher in Texas, I'm a Hasidic diamond merchant. He's the biggest phony I have ever seen, Mr. Greenjeans Bush.
Well, speaking of our president, the White House budget office says that only a tiny fraction of the $18 billion Congress appropriated to rebuild Iraq is actually going where it is supposed to be going. According to "The Washington Post," I'm quoting "The Post," quote: "Thus far," according to the report, "nothing from the aid package has been spent on construction, health care, sanitation and water projects. More money has been spent on administration than all projects related to education, human rights, democracy and governance," unquote.
So, Mr. President, spare us your pious lectures about how we invaded a country that was no threat to us in order to rescue its poor people. Precious little is going to rebuilding feeding, caring and rebuilding of a shattered nation. A whole lot is going to Halliburton.
CARLSON: You know what, that is so unfair and may I say stupid, actually.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... to waste our money on Halliburton instead of people who need our help.
CARLSON: Paul, let me finish my point. Let me finish my point. To argue as I think you just have, that we're not doing enough for people in Iraq, is a complete outrage. In my view, what we've done for the people of Iraq it isn't worth it. Nevertheless to suggest that we haven't made their lives better in tangible ways as well as in deeper ways is a total lie. Now...
BEGALA: I'm just saying George Bush has now broken promises to two countries, America and Iraq.
CARLSON: He hasn't broken promises to Iraqis...
BEGALA: He can't tell the truth...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He pledged to rebuild that country, Tucker, he invaded it which he shouldn't have done. He should be rebuilding it.
CARLSON: OK. You're going to have to stop me again, that's fine.
BEGALA: Has John Kerry picked his running mate? Well, CNN's getting conflicting reports. But if he has, then Kerry ain't talking yet. We will pick the brains of two of the best political insiders we know about who Senator Kerry should, when he may make that pick, and what the impact will be on the race for president.
And once you've been viceroy of Iraq, what do you do for an encore? Well, we'll tell you what Paul Bremer has on his agenda next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. It's a working holiday Monday for us, but Senator John Kerry and his wife Teresa are hosting a barbecue in Pittsburgh on this holiday. While the good senator is grilling burgers -- I lost my microphone here. Tucker, why don't you...
CARLSON: All right. The press is grilling Senator Kerry about his choice for vice president. In comments (UNINTELLIGIBLE) just a short time ago, Kerry invited everyone to come to the rally tomorrow. He said, we're going to have a little fun tomorrow at 9 a.m. and then head back on the trail. Interrupting their holiday to step into the CROSSFIRE today, Republican strategist and former Justice Department spokeswoman, Barbara Comstock, along with former White House director of communications and current national chair of the Democratic National Committee women's vote center, Ann Lewis.
Welcome both. Paul's not going to have his microphone for the show. So I think it will improve the tenor.
ANN LEWIS, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL CMTE.: You're trying anything to get the last word.
CARLSON: Yes we are...
LEWIS: Anything at all.
CARLSON: Anything. Now Ann, it sounds to me like John Edwards may or may not be, but it sounds likely that he could be. Anyway, and I think it's probably a smart choice, but it's striking the contempt -- the obvious contempt that John Kerry has for him. I want to read you a quote, you're familiar, from this February, he said -- caught by "The New York Times," he said: "Edwards says he's the only one who can win states in states in the South. He can't win his own state." In other words, he's pathetic, he's like Al Gore, he's a figure of contempt and fun.
LEWIS: Let's just go back a moment and say they were competing against one another for the presidential nomination. This will shock you, Tucker, but when people run against each other for office, they sometimes say harsh things about each other. So I will let you all in on that. It's OK.
CARLSON: Well I think that's a -- no, no, that's a fair point. I have a whole list of contemptuous things John Kerry has said about John Edwards. But I think your point is reasonably...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... contemptuous things...
CARLSON: That's right.
LEWIS: I remember George Bush...
CARLSON: No, no, you're right.
LEWIS: ... about Ronald Reagan if you want back there.
CARLSON: Your point is fair. That's why I want to go to quote that's, I don't know, just about two weeks old. This Chris Heinz, he's Kerry's stepson and an adviser to the campaign. This is what he told "The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette" on June 17. Quote: "I was very pro-Edwards in the spring, but now I think we need someone with stronger credentials on foreign policy.
In other words, the guy is a lightweight. He was a trial lawyer specializing in Jacuzzi cases just six years ago, and now wants do be vice president.
LEWIS: Let me be very clear. One, that Jacuzzi case that you're making a joke of is a child who was tragically harmed.
CARLSON: Oh, I know, I've heard that, yes.
LEWIS: And John Edwards went into court and got some compensation for the parents and the child. That was a great...
CARLSON: And for himself, yes.
LEWIS: So let's just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) fact there for a lot of Americans, keeping that quote...
CARLSON: Well, let's address Chris Heinz's quote here.
LEWIS: Well, Chris Heinz, as far as I know, is a loved and valued member of the Kerry family, but I haven't yet heard that he was in charge of making the vice presidential selection.
CARLSON: Well, he ought to be.
BEGALA: Barbara, let me bring you in. And one of the key states in this election, of course, is going to be Ohio. Right, if the last election was Florida, Florida, Florida, as my buddy Tim Russert said, I think this one is likely to be Ohio. So I was particularly impressed when Denny White (ph), who's my state party chairman -- Democratic chairman of the state, said this about Edwards: "He is my hero. Some people have it and some people don't. He's got the touch. He came to our state dinner, he was talking to over a thousand people, but it was as if he was having a one-on-one conversation with everyone there. I don't know what he's got, but he needs to bottle it.
Yes, he does, and Dick Cheney needs to drink it, doesn't he? Dick Cheney has a deficit in charisma compared to John Edwards.
BARBARA COMSTOCK, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think, as you now say, Edwards is one of the top contenders and I think John Kerry does have a preference for picking wealthy partners in his life. So I think when you look at the line-up there, he's very comfortable with people with beachfront mansions which the multi-million dollar trial lawyer John Edwards does have.
But I think there may be a reason he might leave him at the altar because he doesn't want somebody who does outshine him like that. Which may be -- I think he's floating the Vilsack thing really just as gratitude, but I think he may go to Gephardt, in part because it's stable, reliable, I think it's also dull and stale. And of course, he said that Gephardt wanted to raise taxes on middle America which, of course, John Kerry does, too. BEGALA: Let me follow through with Edwards. We'll get to Gephardt and Vilsack. But Tucker, a moment ago, the first thing out of your mouth, well, he's a trial lawyer. And as Ann pointed out, he is rich, he came from poverty. He grew up to become wealthy by taking on corporations that particularly harmed children. Now how does that match up against Dick Cheney who got wealthy running Halliburton which traded with Iraq, Iran and Libya?
COMSTOCK: You know, Paul, I know you...
BEGALA: Which would you prefer that your child do for a living?
COMSTOCK: Dick Cheney...
BEGALA: Trade with Saddam Hussein or protect children from companies that harm them?
COMSTOCK: John Kerry himself, not just Chris Heinz, but John Kerry himself pointed out that John Edwards does not have national security experience. And I know in 2002, you sat here on this stage, and your partner James Carville had a garbage can on his head because we won elections in 2002. And part of that was because Dick Cheney was going out. He campaigned for over 60 or 70 House races and we won against -- we went against the whole historical tide and won seats because Dick Cheney is an asset to this ticket. He will be this year. He was in 2002. And that trash can, I know, is not a good moment for you, Paul. So Dick Cheney, you watch and see. He's stable, he's solid. And we have 5.6 percent unemployment rate...
BEGALA: You realize when you say he's stable and solid, you do sound like a cardiologist. We do wish him good health.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Ann, as the chair of the Women's Vote Center at the DNC, I know you noticed as I noticed that really no women appear to be on the short list. Maybe John Kerry will pick a woman. It doesn't look likely. He certainly hasn't had the graciousness to really mention any. And instead, it has been talked up, John Edwards. I'm wondering, could he not pick at least a woman on the short list? I can think of a whole of women: Nancy Pelosi Barbara Boxer, Dianne Feinstein who served longer than John Edwards in the Senate.
LEWIS: Yes, but, you know what, I think John Kerry has been more gracious in that he's not talking about these names. Can we all be honest hear and say this short list we're talking about is being discussed by a lot of people who are not John Kerry. And what he said is, I'm not going to get into listing names of people publicly. I think that was absolutely the right way to do it.
CARLSON: I agree.
LEWIS: And I think it ought to give people real confidence in his judgment that he's handling this decision in the way...
CARLSON: I agree with you. LEWIS: ... keeping it quiet, making...
CARLSON: However...
LEWIS: Can I just make a...
CARLSON: Yes, please, do.
LEWIS: ... something of a contrast in the way Dick Cheney managed to get on the ticket...
CARLSON: Oh please, right, I know, Dick Cheney, right.
LEWIS: ... George Bush asked him to run the vice presidential search.
CARLSON: I think that was four or five years ago.
LEWIS: ... and he looked around and around...
CARLSON: May I ask you a question?
LEWIS: ... and decided he was best possible candidate?
CARLSON: Right, I know, I know.
LEWIS: We've got a little different situation.
CARLSON: I know. Some of us have gotten over that though because it was quite a long time ago. Let me ask you this question then. If it turns out that he does not pick a woman, passes over all these talented woman, Carol Moseley Braun I think would be a marvelous running mate for John Kerry, why won't you be outraged? Or will you apologize again for him again as Democrats apologized for Clinton who mistreated women, will you?
LEWIS: No. I'm going to say the same thing I have said before, which is the true test for women is will we have a president who governs in our interest? Will we have a president who understands that for an awful lot of women, issues like equal pay, because we're still not getting equal pay, issues like after-school care, because we're worried about where our children will be after school. These are issues of daily life.
And you know what, John Kerry, as president, understands what women are concerned about. He is going to make policy that makes a difference for women's lives. I'm very excited about that. And meanwhile we're going to continue to nominate and elect women to statewide office. A couple of years from now, we'll have women on the ticket.
CARLSON: Good luck.
BEGALA: Barbara, let me ask you about Dick Gephardt, not a woman, he's a man, and the audience should know my old boss, back in '88 I worked for Dick Gephardt and made him what he is today, which is broke and largely out of office. Dick Gephardt this morning, this is the silly season, CNN and I would imagine other media actually staked out his home to see what was going on. This is what he was doing, Dick and Jane, and they really are the all-American couple even if you don't like them ideologically, here's Dick Gephardt. We see him, well, he's walking his dog. And In fact, on that walk, Jane is walking the dog and there is Dick, you know what he's doing? He's doing exactly what the next president is going to have to do to clean up after Bush and Cheney.
CARLSON: With his hands, Paul.
BEGALA: What better preparation to clean up the mess that we've been left by the current administration. No, but that's a regular guy.
CARLSON: But don't shake his hand.
BEGALA: If ever there were politician who wasn't full of himself it's Dick Gephardt.
COMSTOCK: I know, and dealing with John Kerry that's probably what he has going against him. I mean, again, he doesn't have the beachfront estate and the wealthy partners that Kerry likes to hang out with. But you know, Paul, you look at the record we have right now. The unemployment rate is the same it was when Bill Clinton elected. We've had 11 percent growth in after-tax...
BEGALA: He was elected because his predecessor did such a bad job...
LEWIS: Say that again, because I don't think it works the way you meant it.
COMSTOCK: No, it's 5 -- it's the same. It's the same as when you guys were arguing that we should be -- you should be re-elected. And the economy is growing, if I can finish. We've had an 11 percent growth in after-tax income. John Kerry and all his running mates say they want to raise taxes on the American people. The American people don't want to go back to that.
BEGALA: We've got to be fair. Only on the rich. I know you think all -- the only Americans you talk to are rich, Barbara, but actually there are a whole lot of us who make less than $200,000 a year who will get a tax break from Kerry.
COMSTOCK: John Kerry pointed out that Dick Gephardt wanted to raise the taxes on the middle class. Now that he didn't acknowledge that he himself does, also. But the reason we've had the growth in the economy that we have had is because of the tax cuts which go to small businesses which creating 70 percent of the jobs -- 70 percent of the new jobs are coming from small businesses. And John Kerry and any of these running mates want to turn around and slap taxes on small businessmen who you call the rich, who are creating jobs...
(CROSSTALK) CARLSON: I'm sorry, let me break in. No matter who John Kerry picks, it looks like it will be tomorrow, it will be his second choice; because we know, you pointed out the Kerry campaign hasn't leaked a lot. And that's true and good for them. But the one thing that did get out, was leaked, is that John McCain was Kerry's first pick. Now I think this is interesting, because McCain, despite a lot of coverage you read about him, is not a liberal, he's a pretty conservative Republican. He is a conservative Republican who was completely for the Iraq invasion. Isn't this evidence -- and Kerry wanted to pick him as his running mate, that Kerry doesn't believe in anything? Or why would he pick a guy who disagrees with him on the core points?
LEWIS: As I understand it, what we're talking about here is what other people have said, is that John Kerry, who has a lot of respect for John McCain, who worked with him on some very important issues, they really worked together in the Senate on a lot of things, who respects his, A, fiscal responsibility and B, his strong position on national security, thought he should be considered if he would agree to be considered. They had some conversations, John McCain said, you know what, I'm a Republican, I'm sticking with my party, end of story.
CARLSON: But Ann, as you know, McCain's position on Iraq -- and this election is about Iraq as you know, it's the issue in this election, and McCain's position on Iraq is completely at the opposite end of the spectrum from John Kerry's position. Don't you think it's a little unprincipled to be considering a man who completely disagrees with you on the central issue?
LEWIS: No...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: John McCain's position on Iraq, like John Kerry, they say, we're here, we have to succeed, we have to build a safe, a stable, pluralistic Iraq. We should have more troops there. That is also John McCain's position.
CARLSON: And George Bush's.
LEWIS: No. George Bush is not asking for more troops. What we're now doing is sort of...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Sorry to interrupt. But we're almost out of time in the segment. I want to the name of Tom Vilsack, the governor of Iowa. You guys must be scared of him. He's a rags to riches story. He was an orphan, raised in Pennsylvania, a swing state, now the governor of Iowa having been a small-town mayor. I mean, that's kind of all- American success story, isn't it?
COMSTOCK: Well, you know, I think he's creating about as much buzz as your average house fly out there. I think they were just putting his name out there because he kept John Kerry alive in Iowa by not endorsing Howard Dean when everybody else, Al Gore, people were getting on -- but I think one of the things you -- that is really key, aside from Tom Vilsack, I mean, if he gets on then you won't have two Al Gore castoffs for vice president on the ticket, because John Kerry, Gephardt and John Edwards were all in the Veepstakes in 2000. They are Al Gore's castoffs.
CARLSON: That was pathetic. I know, you're absolutely right. Thanks, Barbara, for bringing that up. It's poignant almost.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Next, our guests face the "Rapid Fire" and we will ask about the dark horse candidate who just might surprise everyone tomorrow. We're crossing our fingers.
New claims from Iraq about the fate of a captured U.S. Marine. We'll have the latest right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Drew Griffin of the CNN Center in Atlanta. Coming up at the top of the hour, there's a dramatic new claim late this afternoon about a U.S. Marine who was kidnapped in Iraq. Corporal Wassef Hassoun said to be in a safe place.
A source says John Kerry has picked a vice presidential running mate. Who could it be?
And a new report says wives are catching up to their husbands when it comes to infidelity. Those stories and much more are just minutes on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Time now for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions and get answers even faster than Dick Cheney is going to drop the F-bomb when he learns who he is going to have to debate this fall.
In the CROSSFIRE, Republican strategist, former Justice Department spokeswoman Barbara Comstock, along with former White House Communications Director Ann Lewis. She is also the chair of the Democratic National Committee's women's vote center.
CARLSON: Now Ann, John Kerry could possibly announce his running mate as early as tomorrow. When that happens and it's not Hillary Clinton, I suspect you'll be as offended as I am that he's overlooked this talented, wildly popular, qualified person, simply because he's too embarrassed of her, that's appalling, isn't it?
LEWIS: I am going to be so excited that we have a presidential team that's going to bring the issues and concerns of women to the White House in contrast to the administration we've had where women in middle class families are getting squeezed, where kids are getting cut and dropped from, again, after-school programs. So this is going to be very exciting. You know what, Hillary is a great senator, she is going to go on being a great senator. She's going to be an important partner in making public policy.
CARLSON: But he should pick a rich white guy? BEGALA: Barbara, who do you fear most on the ticket?
COMSTOCK: I don't fear any of them because again like I said, these are Al Gore castoffs. These are people who didn't make the Al Gore cut at the end. You don't have...
BEGALA: I like an overconfident adversary, Barbara, I like an overconfident adversary.
COMSTOCK: ... somebody as serious as Joe Lieberman being considered this year and I think that says a lot about how far the party has moved to the left that they can't take anybody out of the sensible center. They have to move so far to the left to unknown people.
CARLSON: Ann, Richard Cohen had a fascinating, I thought, thoughtful column this week when he said the problem with Kerry's strategy, being coy and building up all this expectation about the Veep choice, is that if it turns out to be John Edwards, people are going to be let down. He needs to -- having built it up, he needs to pick someone random and interesting like Carol Moseley Brown, do you agree with that?
LEWIS: No. I don't. And let me say, I think -- and we just discussed this, that he's been going about this just the way he should. He's acting the way a president should. When you have an important decision to make, keep it to yourself. Get some people you trust to gather all the information and nobody doubts that John Kerry at the end of the day is going to make this decision by himself based on what's good for the country.
BEGALA: That will have to be the last one. Ann Lewis from the Democratic National Committee, thank you very much. Barbara Comstock from the Republican Party, thank you as well.
Well, critics say that he made a hash out of Iraq. So next, we will find out what former viceroy Paul Bremer has planned as an Epicurean encore. You're not going to believe this. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back. Paul Bremer has proved he can stand the heat. So now he wants into kitchen naturally. Bremer, of course, spent the last year running Iraq for the Bush administration. Now that his job is finally over and Bremer is out of the frying pan, he wants to enroll in Washington's Academy of Cuisine.
Bremer, it turns out, is a chef. Maybe the Baghdad heat did get to him because Bremer says he wants to work on his French cuisine. Maybe he can perfect a sauce for freedom fries. Good for him, you know what...
BEGALA: Good for him? How about the 138,000 guys that can't even grill hot dogs for their kids, let's get them home. Let's get a new president here.
CARLSON: You know, Paul, that's not...
BEGALA: No, no, he cut and run after making a hash of the thing...
CARLSON: You know what, you haven't gone over there to help. This is a guy who had a career and went over there to help.
BEGALA: I didn't send 138,000 kids over there either, Tucker.
CARLSON: Neither did he, Paul. He was a civil servant who came out of retirement to help our country...
BEGALA: And he didn't help, did he?
CARLSON: Don't blame him, that's outrageous.
BEGALA: Go cook something, Mr. Baster.
Well, from the left, I'm Paul Begala, that's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: From the right, I'm Tucker Carlson, join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. Have a great night.
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