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CNN Crossfire
Terror Attack Imminent?
Aired July 08, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Bush administration issues a new terror warning short on details. Officials say they aren't playing politics.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: These are not conjectures or mythical statements we're making.
ANNOUNCER: How will the war on terrorism and the threat posed by al Qaeda affect the presidential election?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: John and I know how to fight a war on terror that doesn't create more terrorists, but makes America safer.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Robert Novak.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Today, the Bush administration announced that al Qaeda is planning a large-scale terrorist attack in the U.S. some time before the November election. So Senate Democrats tried to bring up bills giving billions of dollars to police and firefighters. The Republicans blocked it. Senator Charles Schumer put it best, saying this administration is fiddling while al Qaeda plots.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Now, nobody would play politics with such an important issue as terrorism and homeland security. Or would Democrats do it anyway? We'll ask our guests right after the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
It read like a Hollywood script. The Democratic Party had picked as its vice presidential running mate a golden-voiced trial lawyer named John Edwards who only five years ago was trying accident suits in North Carolina and making millions of dollars doing it. And just as Senator Edwards reached this remarkable stage of his career, the bill to curb such greedy trial lawyers like John Edwards is to be debated in the Senate.
So the good-looking charmer who entranced rural juries goes on the floor to defend the Democratic Party's special interest group that has so damaged the American economy, except it didn't happen. John Edwards was out campaigning and he wasn't talking about tort reform.
CARVILLE: You know, Bob, what I'm fascinating is, you all love the cigarette lawyer, Ken Starr. But you hate the people lawyer, John Edwards.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: I would rather have somebody in public life that represents people and not cigarette manufacturers. And I'm proud that our party is on the side of people, and not cigarette manufacturers, like Ken Starr is.
NOVAK: But it isn't cigarette manufacturers they're hurting. They're hurting business all over America.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Ladies and gentlemen, the cigarette manufacturers never hurt a soul.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: If I could finish my sentence, it would really help the American economy, James, if they got the lawyers out of there. But you're in bed with them in the Democratic Party.
CARVILLE: Emphysema, the most positive thing that can happen to the American economy.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: If you think that there's no level to which this administration would stoop to reinsure its reelection, you are thinking quite clearly.
If you need evidence, you need only to go to "The New Republic" online, where they have posted a story, tripled sourced, that the Bush administration is pressuring Pakistan to arrest a high-value target -- that means a big-time terrorist -- before the election. What's more, it went even so far as to suggest it would be best to capture or announce on July 26, 27 or 28, the first three days of the Democratic Convention in Boston.
One desperately wants to believe that our government would never stoop as low as pressuring another government to find criminals to coincide with an election. But after reading this "New Republic" story, I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that. NOVAK: Now, James, let me tell you, with this triple source, you're talking about three anonymous Pakistanis. And if you believe what they say, you're more naive than I thought.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Let me finish what I'm going to say.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Secondly, secondly, if you read -- if you read my column, you would know, several months ago, I said that the U.S. special forces people in Afghanistan were putting tremendous effort on trying to catch Osama bin Laden and the other high-level terrorists, probably too much effort. But it's nothing new. It's nothing for July. That has been
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: You've got to read the article, Bob.
NOVAK: I read the article. I don't
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You're like "The New York Post." Who are you, Paul Allen? Right here is his name. It's a source with a name.
NOVAK: All right.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Bad news today for Democrats, good news for America.
The Labor Department today announced that new people signing up for unemployment compensation dropped to 310,000 for the week ending July 3rd. That's the lowest amount in three years, the best showing since October 8, 2000. Get that date. Bill Clinton was president and still had four months in office.
Contrary to the impression you might get from the news media, the recession began when the Democrats were still in office. So grab your baloney detector when you hear talk about a Republican depression.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: It's not a depression, and it's surely not Republican.
CARVILLE: It's not me. It's Marty Feldstein's group at Harvard that tells us the recession started in March of 2001. And, by the way, isn't it interesting, if the recession started in October of 2000, that was the highest claims that Bush is claiming that.
This is the weakest jobs recovery we've had since the Great Depression. And there's been no income growth. And you know who's being helped? People like you and I with the tax cut that John Kerry is going to get rid of and is going to invest it in the American people and health care for people and strengthening our
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You see, I'll tell you something. The Democrats have been making this mistake for years and years. It's a political mistake. And it's an economic mistake. And that is...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... tax, tax, tax.
CARVILLE: No, it's just taxing -- it's just taxing the top 1 percent.
You'll never guess who's publishing Ralph Nader's new book. Is it some environmental group or a group opposed to the war in Iraq or even a group helping to consumers? This evening, "Salon" magazine will going out with a report that Ralph Nader's new book is being published by Regan Books, a publisher owned by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News empire.
No one will discuss how much money has changed hands. But it's time to take a harder look at Ralph Nader.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: This is a man who takes money from Rupert Murdoch and is running for president from the same party as Pat Buchanan. Everyone who is inclined to support Ralph Nader or sign a petition to let him on the ballot should know that. By getting in the race, Ralph Nader is helping George Bush, he's helping himself, but he sure ain't helping the things he claims to believe in.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I just love this. Ralph Nader is one of the icons of the left. He's been one of the heroes of attacking corporate America. And now all you can think of is a personal attack on him because you think he's going to take votes away from Kerry.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: But let me tell you something.
CARVILLE: If you want to vote for Bush, vote for Nader, all you people out there.
NOVAK: Let me tell you this.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: There's more than half of the Democrats in this country think we should set...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Just let me say my sentence, James. A little courtesy.
I think we should...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Half the Democrats in the country think they should get the troops out of Iraq. And they should vote for Ralph Nader if they think so.
CARVILLE: Vote the Murdoch-Buchanan ticket, Ralph Nader, Rupert Murdoch, Pat Buchanan, Nader.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Today's -- today's new warning about the potential for a terror attack this summer raises an important question for voters. Which party's ticket do you think would do a better job of keeping America safe in the months and years ahead? The polls so far point to the Republicans.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: And later, why is Teresa Heinz Kerry criticizing her husband, her own husband, for his comments on the campaign trail?
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: A few hours ago, Homeland Secretary Tom Ridge warned everyone that the al Qaeda terrorist network plans a large-scale attack on the United States in an effort to disrupt the democratic process.
Almost immediately, Democrats in the U.S. Senate, including Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton herself, used the announcement as an excuse to start attacking the Bush administration. Now, who's playing politics?
In the CROSSFIRE are Kerry foreign policy adviser, the former assistant Secretary of State Jamie Rubin, and former Virginia Governor, former Republican National Chairman Jim Gilmore, who chaired an advisory panel to assist -- to assess domestic response capabilities for terrorism involving weapons of mass destruction.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Governor, is the implication that if al Qaeda is trying to -- are they trying to -- do you think they're trying to disrupt or affect the American election?
JAMES GILMORE (R), FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: Well, we don't know what they're trying to do and whether they're going to do any kind of attack or not.
But I think it was very responsible for Secretary Ridge to come forward and explain exactly what's going on, give us a little update as to what exactly Homeland Security is doing. And what he said in his statement is that they're watching the chemical plants. They're paying attention to the trucking situation. They're watching on radioactive issues. I think it shows great responsibility. It shows the administration is caring a lot about this and really focusing on it.
CARVILLE: I understand. I said earlier that I would give them the benefit of the doubt on this. What I'm trying to get at is, what is -- what is the administration saying al Qaeda's intent is, to disrupt the election or try to affect the outcome of the election? Because those are two different words that have two different meanings to people. Do you have any idea what -- I mean, what's our summation here? I don't that think that
(CROSSTALK)
GILMORE: We don't really know what al Qaeda is trying to do or what their exact goal would be or even what the result would be.
But I think this. I think that the American people are going to have a very high comfort level if they know that the secretary and the president are really focusing on this and working very hard to do their jobs and to make sure that the country is as safe as possible within this kind of environment. And I think that's what today's report meant.
NOVAK: Mr. Rubin, I want to show you two faces of the Democratic Party in regard to what's happened today. First is a group called America Coming Together, which is run by Jim Jordan, a former campaign manager for John Kerry, very close to John Kerry.
And he says: "Kerry taps Edwards as vice presidential candidate, surges in the polls. Admitting no new specific information, President Bush raises the threat level. Coincidence?" So he's suggesting that this was kind of just playing dirty politics. And let me give you another Democratic voice, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, certainly a partisan Democrat.
Let's listen to what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: We do not want to be in the what-if situation, where you wake up one morning after a horrible incident, God forbid, and we say, what if we had done more? The time to act is not in September and not in October and not next year. It's now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: So you're a very important person in the Kerry campaign, his foreign policy adviser. You travel with him constantly. What does the senator think? Does he think this is just a scam or does he take it seriously, as Chuck Schumer does?
JAMIE RUBIN, ADVISER TO SENATOR JOHN KERRY: I'll tell you what Senator Kerry thinks, that we're going to have an election in this country, and the al Qaeda people better understand that, whoever's elected, the United States is going to fight to destroy them. And if John Kerry is elected, he's going to use every inch of his power, every element of our national power to destroy the al Qaeda organization, destroy the terrorist cells abroad and destroy them at home. That's what he thinks.
NOVAK: I'm glad to hear that.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: And I would like you now to answer my question. Does the senator think that this warning, given out by Secretary Ridge and the briefing, was this all just a kind of a political scam? Or do you think it was -- does he think it was serious?
RUBIN: Well, you know, you put Chuck Schumer up there. And Chuck Schumer raised some questions. And we're long past the time in our democracy, Mr. Novak, where the Democratic Party is going to allow this administration to just do whatever it wants.
We're going to ask the hard questions. Where is the funding for intelligence, cut by two-thirds? Where are the programs for rail? Where are the programs for air? Has this administration even got a strategic plan to figure out where our vulnerabilities are? These are the questions
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So you won't answer my question?
RUBIN: The questions that the Democrats are demanding and asking.
NOVAK: You didn't answer my question.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Governor, what -- let's be serious here for just a second, which, of course, would be unusual for us here on CROSSFIRE.
(LAUGHTER)
GILMORE: Yes.
CARVILLE: But what -- what -- and when -- this is just something I think people across the country -- Secretary Ridge said this. What are we supposed to do? This seems to be the question, is, why are you telling us this? And should I not go to the Democratic Convention? Or should I not go to the Republican Convention? What are we supposed to do?
GILMORE: No.
I think -- I think he's communicating a responsible act of governance. I think he's explaining to the American people the actions that are being taken. And, frankly, I think it's also a message to the enemy that, if they come in and they attempt to do something like this, there's a fairly good chance that they in fact may be thwarted or may be captured. It's responsible governance that he's doing.
And it's the president that set up the Department of Homeland Security and developed the VISIT program, so we could deal with the borders. And it's the president
(CROSSTALK)
RUBIN: I thought he objected to it.
(CROSSTALK)
GILMORE: No. And I think that the history has shown that Secretary Ridge has done a very good job of putting this thing together in very difficult times.
And that's, I think, what's being communicated here, James. And we can't control what an enemy would do. But we can make reasonable preparations and prevention efforts and prepare us for a response.
NOVAK: Mr. Rubin, since you're not only a foreign policy adviser -- I understand you are a very astute political analyst. And I'd like you to explain...
RUBIN: I'm in trouble now.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I would like you to explain something to me.
These two candidates, Senator Kerry and President Bush, have been running fairly close to each other, up a little, down a little. But the last CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll on who was doing the better job handling terrorism, Bush 54 percent, Kerry 40 percent -- not close. Why is there no confidence in Senator Kerry's ability to handle terrorism?
RUBIN: Well, we're very early in the cycle. I believe, after Senator Kerry's speech at the convention, when he introduces himself really for the first time to the American people and through the debates this fall, at the end of this process, the American people are going to see that John Kerry is not only as tough as anyone in terms of destroying al Qaeda, destroying the cells, destroying its base, but he's smart enough to understand that we have to get the rest of the world to work with us in the war on terror. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
RUBIN: If we're going to win the war on terror, we have to got the help from the rest of the world.
CARVILLE: Can I see that poll again? We can put that back up? I find this poll absolutely fascinating. It was 54 that -- the president of the United States could only get 54 percent of the people to say he's doing a better job of fighting terrorism than the senator from Massachusetts?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I mean, how is this guy going to even run for reelection?
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Isn't this a scathing indictment on Bush?
GILMORE: But I think we have a right to ask ourselves, when Schumer comes out, whether he is in fact playing politics with homeland security here and suggesting all of these kinds of questions about whether or not we're going to be safe or not.
And I think that the secretary has come out and explained exactly what is under way here. But I think that the Democrats ought to guard against this playing politics with homeland security.
CARVILLE: Well, Senator Rudman and Senator Hart, in a bipartisan issuance of the thing, said the administration is not doing enough to do that. Do you think Senator Warren Rudman and Senator Gary Hart are playing politics with homeland security? As I appreciate it, they were people that were asked to do this and are distinguished people in this area.
GILMORE: Well, and I chaired another commission as well.
But I think the point is that we've got to maintain -- keep our eye on the politicians here. When Senator Schumer comes out and begins to try to inject into the American people that maybe the president isn't doing everything, the secretary isn't doing everything, I think it's very troubling. And the American people should not be rewarding that kind of conduct.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: OK, we're going to take a break.
And when we come back, in "Rapid Fire," I'll ask whether John Edwards has the experience it takes if he should have to take over, my goodness, as commander in chief. The trial lawyer as commander in chief. And right after the break, find out what former Enron chairman Ken Lay had to say today about his indictment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Miles O'Brien at CNN Center in Atlanta.
Coming up at the top of the hour, a missing Marine corporal finally surfaces in the Middle East, but the mystery surrounding his disappearance from Iraq continues to deepen.
Kenneth Lay pleading not guilty, then holds a spirited news conference to defend himself.
And Bill Clinton speaking out, again. Just wait until you hear what he told -- what he says he told President Bush about al Qaeda and Iraq.
Those stories and much more just moments away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions almost as fast as Republicans can block Democratic efforts to get more money for our police and firefighters.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: In the CROSSFIRE, former Republican National Chairman and former Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia Jim Gilmore and advisory to assess domestic response capabilities, also.
Governor, you've got so many titles, I can't get through them -- involved with weapons of mass destruction -- along with Kerry foreign policy adviser, former assistant to the secretary of state, my dear friend and general good guy, Jamie Rubin.
NOVAK: Mr. Rubin, five years ago, John Edwards was talking to juries in the boonies of North Carolina getting -- extracting money from corporate America. Do you really feel comfortable if, by some act of God, he would become commander in chief?
RUBIN: Well, absolutely.
John Edwards happened to have been someone who understood before the attacks on September 11 that the United States faced the ultimate threat from terrorists. And in his role on the Intelligence Committee, he made that point in the summer of 2001. He was then involved in serious efforts to pursue changes in domestic law enforcement. He gave a very, very powerful speech on nuclear proliferation.
And he's met leaders all over the world. I don't think President Bush, when he was Governor Bush, could say any of that.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) CARVILLE: Let's -- Governor Gilmore, what -- what -- Jamie has just done this. What was it about Governor Bush's foreign policy expertise that made you so comfortable with his experience that he had over what Senator Edwards has, who has been a United States senator for six years? What in his vast background before he was president that impressed you so much with his foreign policy experience?
(APPLAUSE)
GILMORE: Well, you've never been a governor, obviously. A governor runs a state. A governor is in charge. A governor deals with a budget. A governor actually does foreign policy. He goes all over and speaks to people in foreign countries on trade missions.
And the president, when he was governor, had a lot of communication cross-border with Mexico and other places. And, frankly, you know, senators, well, you know, often, it's just a debating society, isn't it, James?
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Well, don't they vote on budgets? Isn't he on the Intelligence Committee? I mean, so he went to a trade mission. George W. Bush, he went to a trade mission.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: All right, Mr. Jamie Rubin, thank you very much.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: Governor Jim Gilmore, thank you very much.
GILMORE: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Next, we'll tell you why Teresa Heinz Kerry is worried her husband might lose James Carville's vote.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: There are plenty of important issues to debate in the presidential campaign. So why are Senators Kerry and Edwards making an issue out of their opponents' hairlines? Really.
This week, John Kerry has been telling audiences he and Senator Edwards have better hair than President Bush and Dick Cheney.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KERRY: We've got real plans. We've got a better sense of what's happening to America. And we've got better hair.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
KERRY: I'll tell you, that goes a long way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Well, his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, has taken issue with her husband on this point. And the impact at the ballot could be pretty serious. As Mrs. Kerry said, you just lost the bald vote.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: How about it, James?
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Actually...
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Actually, I think I give him a lot of credit for having a little sense of humor. I mean, everything can't just be all dry, whatever, and gloom and doom and everything else. The guy is cracking a little joke. His wife entered in the thing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... vote for hair, Paul Wolfowitz, the most inept, incompetent public official to serve this government to be president.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I think there's a toupee vote, but not a bald vote.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
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Aired July 8, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Bush administration issues a new terror warning short on details. Officials say they aren't playing politics.
TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: These are not conjectures or mythical statements we're making.
ANNOUNCER: How will the war on terrorism and the threat posed by al Qaeda affect the presidential election?
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: John and I know how to fight a war on terror that doesn't create more terrorists, but makes America safer.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Robert Novak.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Today, the Bush administration announced that al Qaeda is planning a large-scale terrorist attack in the U.S. some time before the November election. So Senate Democrats tried to bring up bills giving billions of dollars to police and firefighters. The Republicans blocked it. Senator Charles Schumer put it best, saying this administration is fiddling while al Qaeda plots.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Now, nobody would play politics with such an important issue as terrorism and homeland security. Or would Democrats do it anyway? We'll ask our guests right after the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
It read like a Hollywood script. The Democratic Party had picked as its vice presidential running mate a golden-voiced trial lawyer named John Edwards who only five years ago was trying accident suits in North Carolina and making millions of dollars doing it. And just as Senator Edwards reached this remarkable stage of his career, the bill to curb such greedy trial lawyers like John Edwards is to be debated in the Senate.
So the good-looking charmer who entranced rural juries goes on the floor to defend the Democratic Party's special interest group that has so damaged the American economy, except it didn't happen. John Edwards was out campaigning and he wasn't talking about tort reform.
CARVILLE: You know, Bob, what I'm fascinating is, you all love the cigarette lawyer, Ken Starr. But you hate the people lawyer, John Edwards.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: I would rather have somebody in public life that represents people and not cigarette manufacturers. And I'm proud that our party is on the side of people, and not cigarette manufacturers, like Ken Starr is.
NOVAK: But it isn't cigarette manufacturers they're hurting. They're hurting business all over America.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Ladies and gentlemen, the cigarette manufacturers never hurt a soul.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: If I could finish my sentence, it would really help the American economy, James, if they got the lawyers out of there. But you're in bed with them in the Democratic Party.
CARVILLE: Emphysema, the most positive thing that can happen to the American economy.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: If you think that there's no level to which this administration would stoop to reinsure its reelection, you are thinking quite clearly.
If you need evidence, you need only to go to "The New Republic" online, where they have posted a story, tripled sourced, that the Bush administration is pressuring Pakistan to arrest a high-value target -- that means a big-time terrorist -- before the election. What's more, it went even so far as to suggest it would be best to capture or announce on July 26, 27 or 28, the first three days of the Democratic Convention in Boston.
One desperately wants to believe that our government would never stoop as low as pressuring another government to find criminals to coincide with an election. But after reading this "New Republic" story, I'm finding it harder and harder to believe that. NOVAK: Now, James, let me tell you, with this triple source, you're talking about three anonymous Pakistanis. And if you believe what they say, you're more naive than I thought.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute. Let me finish what I'm going to say.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Secondly, secondly, if you read -- if you read my column, you would know, several months ago, I said that the U.S. special forces people in Afghanistan were putting tremendous effort on trying to catch Osama bin Laden and the other high-level terrorists, probably too much effort. But it's nothing new. It's nothing for July. That has been
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: You've got to read the article, Bob.
NOVAK: I read the article. I don't
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You're like "The New York Post." Who are you, Paul Allen? Right here is his name. It's a source with a name.
NOVAK: All right.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Bad news today for Democrats, good news for America.
The Labor Department today announced that new people signing up for unemployment compensation dropped to 310,000 for the week ending July 3rd. That's the lowest amount in three years, the best showing since October 8, 2000. Get that date. Bill Clinton was president and still had four months in office.
Contrary to the impression you might get from the news media, the recession began when the Democrats were still in office. So grab your baloney detector when you hear talk about a Republican depression.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: It's not a depression, and it's surely not Republican.
CARVILLE: It's not me. It's Marty Feldstein's group at Harvard that tells us the recession started in March of 2001. And, by the way, isn't it interesting, if the recession started in October of 2000, that was the highest claims that Bush is claiming that.
This is the weakest jobs recovery we've had since the Great Depression. And there's been no income growth. And you know who's being helped? People like you and I with the tax cut that John Kerry is going to get rid of and is going to invest it in the American people and health care for people and strengthening our
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You see, I'll tell you something. The Democrats have been making this mistake for years and years. It's a political mistake. And it's an economic mistake. And that is...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: ... tax, tax, tax.
CARVILLE: No, it's just taxing -- it's just taxing the top 1 percent.
You'll never guess who's publishing Ralph Nader's new book. Is it some environmental group or a group opposed to the war in Iraq or even a group helping to consumers? This evening, "Salon" magazine will going out with a report that Ralph Nader's new book is being published by Regan Books, a publisher owned by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News empire.
No one will discuss how much money has changed hands. But it's time to take a harder look at Ralph Nader.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: This is a man who takes money from Rupert Murdoch and is running for president from the same party as Pat Buchanan. Everyone who is inclined to support Ralph Nader or sign a petition to let him on the ballot should know that. By getting in the race, Ralph Nader is helping George Bush, he's helping himself, but he sure ain't helping the things he claims to believe in.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I just love this. Ralph Nader is one of the icons of the left. He's been one of the heroes of attacking corporate America. And now all you can think of is a personal attack on him because you think he's going to take votes away from Kerry.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: But let me tell you something.
CARVILLE: If you want to vote for Bush, vote for Nader, all you people out there.
NOVAK: Let me tell you this.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: There's more than half of the Democrats in this country think we should set...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Just let me say my sentence, James. A little courtesy.
I think we should...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Half the Democrats in the country think they should get the troops out of Iraq. And they should vote for Ralph Nader if they think so.
CARVILLE: Vote the Murdoch-Buchanan ticket, Ralph Nader, Rupert Murdoch, Pat Buchanan, Nader.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Today's -- today's new warning about the potential for a terror attack this summer raises an important question for voters. Which party's ticket do you think would do a better job of keeping America safe in the months and years ahead? The polls so far point to the Republicans.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: And later, why is Teresa Heinz Kerry criticizing her husband, her own husband, for his comments on the campaign trail?
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: A few hours ago, Homeland Secretary Tom Ridge warned everyone that the al Qaeda terrorist network plans a large-scale attack on the United States in an effort to disrupt the democratic process.
Almost immediately, Democrats in the U.S. Senate, including Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton herself, used the announcement as an excuse to start attacking the Bush administration. Now, who's playing politics?
In the CROSSFIRE are Kerry foreign policy adviser, the former assistant Secretary of State Jamie Rubin, and former Virginia Governor, former Republican National Chairman Jim Gilmore, who chaired an advisory panel to assist -- to assess domestic response capabilities for terrorism involving weapons of mass destruction.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Governor, is the implication that if al Qaeda is trying to -- are they trying to -- do you think they're trying to disrupt or affect the American election?
JAMES GILMORE (R), FORMER VIRGINIA GOVERNOR: Well, we don't know what they're trying to do and whether they're going to do any kind of attack or not.
But I think it was very responsible for Secretary Ridge to come forward and explain exactly what's going on, give us a little update as to what exactly Homeland Security is doing. And what he said in his statement is that they're watching the chemical plants. They're paying attention to the trucking situation. They're watching on radioactive issues. I think it shows great responsibility. It shows the administration is caring a lot about this and really focusing on it.
CARVILLE: I understand. I said earlier that I would give them the benefit of the doubt on this. What I'm trying to get at is, what is -- what is the administration saying al Qaeda's intent is, to disrupt the election or try to affect the outcome of the election? Because those are two different words that have two different meanings to people. Do you have any idea what -- I mean, what's our summation here? I don't that think that
(CROSSTALK)
GILMORE: We don't really know what al Qaeda is trying to do or what their exact goal would be or even what the result would be.
But I think this. I think that the American people are going to have a very high comfort level if they know that the secretary and the president are really focusing on this and working very hard to do their jobs and to make sure that the country is as safe as possible within this kind of environment. And I think that's what today's report meant.
NOVAK: Mr. Rubin, I want to show you two faces of the Democratic Party in regard to what's happened today. First is a group called America Coming Together, which is run by Jim Jordan, a former campaign manager for John Kerry, very close to John Kerry.
And he says: "Kerry taps Edwards as vice presidential candidate, surges in the polls. Admitting no new specific information, President Bush raises the threat level. Coincidence?" So he's suggesting that this was kind of just playing dirty politics. And let me give you another Democratic voice, Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, certainly a partisan Democrat.
Let's listen to what he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: We do not want to be in the what-if situation, where you wake up one morning after a horrible incident, God forbid, and we say, what if we had done more? The time to act is not in September and not in October and not next year. It's now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: So you're a very important person in the Kerry campaign, his foreign policy adviser. You travel with him constantly. What does the senator think? Does he think this is just a scam or does he take it seriously, as Chuck Schumer does?
JAMIE RUBIN, ADVISER TO SENATOR JOHN KERRY: I'll tell you what Senator Kerry thinks, that we're going to have an election in this country, and the al Qaeda people better understand that, whoever's elected, the United States is going to fight to destroy them. And if John Kerry is elected, he's going to use every inch of his power, every element of our national power to destroy the al Qaeda organization, destroy the terrorist cells abroad and destroy them at home. That's what he thinks.
NOVAK: I'm glad to hear that.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: And I would like you now to answer my question. Does the senator think that this warning, given out by Secretary Ridge and the briefing, was this all just a kind of a political scam? Or do you think it was -- does he think it was serious?
RUBIN: Well, you know, you put Chuck Schumer up there. And Chuck Schumer raised some questions. And we're long past the time in our democracy, Mr. Novak, where the Democratic Party is going to allow this administration to just do whatever it wants.
We're going to ask the hard questions. Where is the funding for intelligence, cut by two-thirds? Where are the programs for rail? Where are the programs for air? Has this administration even got a strategic plan to figure out where our vulnerabilities are? These are the questions
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So you won't answer my question?
RUBIN: The questions that the Democrats are demanding and asking.
NOVAK: You didn't answer my question.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Governor, what -- let's be serious here for just a second, which, of course, would be unusual for us here on CROSSFIRE.
(LAUGHTER)
GILMORE: Yes.
CARVILLE: But what -- what -- and when -- this is just something I think people across the country -- Secretary Ridge said this. What are we supposed to do? This seems to be the question, is, why are you telling us this? And should I not go to the Democratic Convention? Or should I not go to the Republican Convention? What are we supposed to do?
GILMORE: No.
I think -- I think he's communicating a responsible act of governance. I think he's explaining to the American people the actions that are being taken. And, frankly, I think it's also a message to the enemy that, if they come in and they attempt to do something like this, there's a fairly good chance that they in fact may be thwarted or may be captured. It's responsible governance that he's doing.
And it's the president that set up the Department of Homeland Security and developed the VISIT program, so we could deal with the borders. And it's the president
(CROSSTALK)
RUBIN: I thought he objected to it.
(CROSSTALK)
GILMORE: No. And I think that the history has shown that Secretary Ridge has done a very good job of putting this thing together in very difficult times.
And that's, I think, what's being communicated here, James. And we can't control what an enemy would do. But we can make reasonable preparations and prevention efforts and prepare us for a response.
NOVAK: Mr. Rubin, since you're not only a foreign policy adviser -- I understand you are a very astute political analyst. And I'd like you to explain...
RUBIN: I'm in trouble now.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: I would like you to explain something to me.
These two candidates, Senator Kerry and President Bush, have been running fairly close to each other, up a little, down a little. But the last CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll on who was doing the better job handling terrorism, Bush 54 percent, Kerry 40 percent -- not close. Why is there no confidence in Senator Kerry's ability to handle terrorism?
RUBIN: Well, we're very early in the cycle. I believe, after Senator Kerry's speech at the convention, when he introduces himself really for the first time to the American people and through the debates this fall, at the end of this process, the American people are going to see that John Kerry is not only as tough as anyone in terms of destroying al Qaeda, destroying the cells, destroying its base, but he's smart enough to understand that we have to get the rest of the world to work with us in the war on terror. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
RUBIN: If we're going to win the war on terror, we have to got the help from the rest of the world.
CARVILLE: Can I see that poll again? We can put that back up? I find this poll absolutely fascinating. It was 54 that -- the president of the United States could only get 54 percent of the people to say he's doing a better job of fighting terrorism than the senator from Massachusetts?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I mean, how is this guy going to even run for reelection?
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Isn't this a scathing indictment on Bush?
GILMORE: But I think we have a right to ask ourselves, when Schumer comes out, whether he is in fact playing politics with homeland security here and suggesting all of these kinds of questions about whether or not we're going to be safe or not.
And I think that the secretary has come out and explained exactly what is under way here. But I think that the Democrats ought to guard against this playing politics with homeland security.
CARVILLE: Well, Senator Rudman and Senator Hart, in a bipartisan issuance of the thing, said the administration is not doing enough to do that. Do you think Senator Warren Rudman and Senator Gary Hart are playing politics with homeland security? As I appreciate it, they were people that were asked to do this and are distinguished people in this area.
GILMORE: Well, and I chaired another commission as well.
But I think the point is that we've got to maintain -- keep our eye on the politicians here. When Senator Schumer comes out and begins to try to inject into the American people that maybe the president isn't doing everything, the secretary isn't doing everything, I think it's very troubling. And the American people should not be rewarding that kind of conduct.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: OK, we're going to take a break.
And when we come back, in "Rapid Fire," I'll ask whether John Edwards has the experience it takes if he should have to take over, my goodness, as commander in chief. The trial lawyer as commander in chief. And right after the break, find out what former Enron chairman Ken Lay had to say today about his indictment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Miles O'Brien at CNN Center in Atlanta.
Coming up at the top of the hour, a missing Marine corporal finally surfaces in the Middle East, but the mystery surrounding his disappearance from Iraq continues to deepen.
Kenneth Lay pleading not guilty, then holds a spirited news conference to defend himself.
And Bill Clinton speaking out, again. Just wait until you hear what he told -- what he says he told President Bush about al Qaeda and Iraq.
Those stories and much more just moments away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions almost as fast as Republicans can block Democratic efforts to get more money for our police and firefighters.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: In the CROSSFIRE, former Republican National Chairman and former Governor of the Commonwealth of Virginia Jim Gilmore and advisory to assess domestic response capabilities, also.
Governor, you've got so many titles, I can't get through them -- involved with weapons of mass destruction -- along with Kerry foreign policy adviser, former assistant to the secretary of state, my dear friend and general good guy, Jamie Rubin.
NOVAK: Mr. Rubin, five years ago, John Edwards was talking to juries in the boonies of North Carolina getting -- extracting money from corporate America. Do you really feel comfortable if, by some act of God, he would become commander in chief?
RUBIN: Well, absolutely.
John Edwards happened to have been someone who understood before the attacks on September 11 that the United States faced the ultimate threat from terrorists. And in his role on the Intelligence Committee, he made that point in the summer of 2001. He was then involved in serious efforts to pursue changes in domestic law enforcement. He gave a very, very powerful speech on nuclear proliferation.
And he's met leaders all over the world. I don't think President Bush, when he was Governor Bush, could say any of that.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE) CARVILLE: Let's -- Governor Gilmore, what -- what -- Jamie has just done this. What was it about Governor Bush's foreign policy expertise that made you so comfortable with his experience that he had over what Senator Edwards has, who has been a United States senator for six years? What in his vast background before he was president that impressed you so much with his foreign policy experience?
(APPLAUSE)
GILMORE: Well, you've never been a governor, obviously. A governor runs a state. A governor is in charge. A governor deals with a budget. A governor actually does foreign policy. He goes all over and speaks to people in foreign countries on trade missions.
And the president, when he was governor, had a lot of communication cross-border with Mexico and other places. And, frankly, you know, senators, well, you know, often, it's just a debating society, isn't it, James?
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Well, don't they vote on budgets? Isn't he on the Intelligence Committee? I mean, so he went to a trade mission. George W. Bush, he went to a trade mission.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: All right, Mr. Jamie Rubin, thank you very much.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: Governor Jim Gilmore, thank you very much.
GILMORE: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Next, we'll tell you why Teresa Heinz Kerry is worried her husband might lose James Carville's vote.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: There are plenty of important issues to debate in the presidential campaign. So why are Senators Kerry and Edwards making an issue out of their opponents' hairlines? Really.
This week, John Kerry has been telling audiences he and Senator Edwards have better hair than President Bush and Dick Cheney.
Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KERRY: We've got real plans. We've got a better sense of what's happening to America. And we've got better hair.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
KERRY: I'll tell you, that goes a long way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Well, his wife, Teresa Heinz Kerry, has taken issue with her husband on this point. And the impact at the ballot could be pretty serious. As Mrs. Kerry said, you just lost the bald vote.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: How about it, James?
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Actually...
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Actually, I think I give him a lot of credit for having a little sense of humor. I mean, everything can't just be all dry, whatever, and gloom and doom and everything else. The guy is cracking a little joke. His wife entered in the thing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... vote for hair, Paul Wolfowitz, the most inept, incompetent public official to serve this government to be president.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I think there's a toupee vote, but not a bald vote.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
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