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CNN Crossfire
Can Democrats Hold Their Fire Against President Bush?
Aired July 26, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE:
TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: The Democratic Party will now come to order!
ANNOUNCER: The convention is under way and the Democrats are promising to make nice.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have got to lower our voices in America and listen to each other.
ANNOUNCER: The Clintons are on the podium tonight. Can the Democrats tone down the anti-Bush rhetoric for a whole four days? Should they do it for the rest of the campaign?
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I cannot wait to see them leave the White House -- the sooner the better.
ANNOUNCER: Today, on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Election Express at the Democratic National Convention in Boston, James Carville and Robert Novak.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE across the river from the convention site and right next to the USS Constitution.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: The Democrats would like nothing better than to spend the week bashing President Bush and the Republicans. We'll debate whether they can possibly resist temptation and hold their fire.
But first, we're going to fire some political salvos of our own. Here comes the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Teresa Heinz Kerry is a good looking woman who looks all the better because she's worth $1 billion. That's a good reason why everybody treats her with such respect, especially her husband, John Kerry. But precisely because nobody ever corrects her, she spells big trouble for his campaign. Yesterday, she focused her political opponents -- she accused her political opponents of un-American traits and then denied Saturday what she said. When a political reporter persisted in questioning her, she put him in his place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERESA HEINZ KERRY, WIFE OF SENATOR JOHN KERRY: Of course. Understandable. You said something I didn't say. Now shove it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Her husband's staff then accused the reporter of working for a right-wing rag, meaning a newspaper that's not in the bag for the Democrats. That's an outrage to say that, but outrage is Teresa's middle name.
CARVILLE: She said shove it. Boy, what are we going to tell the children? What a terrible thing.
You know what? I like her. She's a woman who thinks for herself. And, Bob, I know how much that infuriates you and your right-wing friends.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: But you know what? She's a good lady.
I had the honor of hosting a Veterans For Kerry event today. It was packed with thousands of wildly enthusiastic veterans. I just told them what the main fact of this convention is, that John Kerry is just a much better man, just a much better man than George W. Bush. Man to man, there's no comparison. He has faced every man's three greatest fears, combat. He won the Silver Star. Cancer. He got out of bed and ran for president. Certain to be defeated, he came back to win his party's nomination faster than anyone has before.
It's a neat feeling to know that we just got the best man.
NOVAK: James, let me tell the other side of the story.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: There's a lot of veterans not happy with
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: James, let me just talk for a moment before you interrupt me.
A lot of people are not happy with John Kerry coming back from Vietnam, accusing his comrades of war crimes, acting like he was going to run for president, in fact, going into politics immediately afterwards. So there's a lot of veterans out there who are not happy with him. (CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Almost all the people that served with him, everyone that served on his boat were talking about what a tremendous, great leader he was.
You know, when he was getting shot at, George W. Bush wasn't even attending Air National Guard meetings. He's a man that has faced adversity, defeated it. We just got the best man, Bob. That's all. He's just -- Kerry's a better man.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: There's going to be a book coming out giving the other side of what the Vietnam veterans really think of John Kerry.
CARVILLE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I can assure of that.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: It seemed like such a good idea for the geniuses who run John Kerry's campaign, have him show up as a big surprise at the Red Sox-Yankees game last night.
These masterminds thought the old rule that politicians always get booed at sporting events does not apply to Senator John in his hometown. Well, it did apply. Bostonians out to root for the Red Sox did not want interruptions from any politician. They booed the mere mention of the convention, whose fantastic security arrangements have fouled up their life.
And then the senator, who is billed as a great athlete, threw a wild pitch. Is this a preview of the decision-making ability of the Kerry team?
CARVILLE: Just like when Dick Cheney went to Yankee Stadium.
Look, let me tell you, there was poll in "The Boston Herald," which is a right-wing newspaper here, about how wildly enthusiastic people in Boston are. Can't walk down the street here in Boston without people saying, Mr. Carville, thank you for coming to our city. We hope you enjoy it.
The weather is nice. The people are friendly. The Democrats are united. And we have got the best man.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: James, you said it 17 times. I'm sick of hearing it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: We have got the best man.
NOVAK: James, I wonder, you used to be a political manager. Don't you think it's a bum idea to put politicians at athletic events? You know that, don't you?
CARVILLE: No. He likes to go. He actually sports. So let him go where he wants to. See, we have got the best man, Bob.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Oh, it's making me ill.
CARVILLE: Shove it.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: It's making me ill.
CARVILLE: I want to take a moment to tip my hat to Terry McAuliffe, the much maligned chairman of the Democratic Party. Will Rogers once said, I don't belong to an organized party. I'm a Democrat.
In 2001, Chairman McAuliffe inherited a party that was fractured, fragmented and broke. As today's "Washington Post" reports, thanks to Chairman McAuliffe, the Democratic Party now has a new headquarters building, 170-million-person voter list, up-to-date technology and budget that's in the black.
Mr. McAuliffe, you have built a foundation for Democratic victories, not this year, but for a lot of years to come. And I salute you, sir.
NOVAK: The reason he is much-maligned is, he deserved to be. He was an artful dodger. He was involved in so many scandals that got out of. And he's so mean in his rhetoric that, when the Kerry people won the nomination, they said, shut up, Terry. And he has shut up since then.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He's banging the gavel opening up the Democratic National -- he has done a tremendous job for this party. And he didn't pay attention to all these bloviating blowhards that said all this about him.
Terry, you've done a good job. We're damn proud to have you as party chairman.
NOVAK: They want to keep him off the tube as much as possible. And they have. You know that. That is a fact.
CARVILLE: I just saw over there open the convention.
NOVAK: All right, but he's not saying a word now. He's like a James Carville out there, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: He gets people mad.
CARVILLE: Well, they don't keep me off the air, Bob. I like to get them mad.
NOVAK: OK.
Democrats are gathering for the first night of their convention. Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Jimmy Carter speak tonight. Where in the world is Walter Mondale? Is this really a party looking to the future?
And, later, there's a big stink -- stink -- developing at this convention site. We'll tell you what it's all about later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARVILLE: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The Democrats' big party is under way here in Boston. Right now, they're taking care of little things like the roll call, delegate credentials and the convention rules. The real fun starts tonight, when delegates hear speeches by Al Gore, former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
In the CROSSFIRE today are my dear friend and annoyingly -- annoying Congressman Rahm Emanuel, who is a Democrat from the great city of Chicago and a former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton, along with one of the few Republicans in town, Texas Congressman Henry Bonilla.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, I want you to come out on the level, in the open, and say what Democrats have been telling me privately for years.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: Bob, shove it.
NOVAK: No, no.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: No, no. We have got to be polite. We have got to be polite.
That Teresa Heinz Kerry is a disaster waiting to happen, a train wreck waiting to happen and everybody is afraid to say anything because she's worth $1 billion and her husband is afraid of her, too. Is that correct?
EMANUEL: Wrong. It's that simple. No, Teresa, I think she adds a real freshness and people actually warm to her because of actually her freshness. And I think the best thing in politics is to be not political at all. And she comes off exactly like that, like she speaks her mind. And I think she's a real asset, and has proven to be.
NOVAK: Well, a lot -- a lot of Democrats I have talked to say that, boy, the person they really like is Elizabeth Edwards. She is motherly. She's nice.
And this woman is scary. Do you think it would look good for her to lie about what she said in public? She used the words un-American and she said, I never said it, because nobody has ever contradicted the billion-dollar babe.
EMANUEL: Two things real quickly. One, I don't know a one of us who haven't been in public service who would not have the courage to say what she said and didn't say it and bit our tongue to a reporter, but we did.
And, No. 2, this election is not about Teresa Heinz. It's about the agenda and the plan that her husband is going to lay out. And he is going to lay out one that deals with ending the wage and benefit recession that Americans are experiencing right now.
CARVILLE: Congressman Bonilla, you're from -- represent a good bit of San Antonio and Bexar County which is very, very pro-military, a lot of retired military bases there.
REP. HENRY BONILLA (R), TEXAS: You're familiar with it?
CARVILLE: Yes, sir.
And I know you have a very good record when it comes to the U.S. military. How does it make you feel as pro-military Republican when the GAO issues a report and says the military is running $12.3 billion short. The Navy and Air Force have canceled training exercise. The Air Force can't afford the cost of body armor for them in combat areas. The Army is asking the Marines to help cover its contract with Halliburton.
And the report found -- and I quote -- "We believe the deferral of these activities could result in a bow wave effect on the United States military." It must be killing your constituents, who a lot of them are good Republicans, to see this, the most anti-military administration in my lifetime. They have just almost completely wrecked the military.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: Well, maybe you didn't hear. Just a few days ago, we approved a bill in the House of Representatives with the Senate that is going to take care of a lot of these things.
I was in Iraq myself during the holiday season.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: And we saw some of the shortfalls. But we're taking care of that. And, again, we are doing it in a bipartisan way, frankly.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: We've got some good people on the committees working on this.
CARVILLE: Why are we not trying to fill up a $12.3 billion hole when we have got kids out there that don't have -- why wasn't the planning for this war in this administration, why was Dumbs-feld sitting there rejecting people that said all this was going to happen? That's what military people are asking us right now.
BONILLA: Everybody likes to be a Monday-morning quarter. And we're treading new water.
In the history of our country, we have never had the challenges that we now face with terrorism. And, quite frankly, we're a tasting a little bit of hell now, just like Israel has tasted for generations, just like Africans have tasted with a lot of the mass murder going on there, South America, dictatorships. Now we're facing a little bit of that now.
And, quite frankly, for a lot of people to stand up and say, hey, I could have, should have done it a different way, you ought to be ashamed of yourself if you're trying to second guess
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: I think we're doing the best we can.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: There's nothing Monday-morning quarterback about having a plan to secure the peace. Everybody knew about it before the war. Nobody wanted to listen about it.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: ... trying to act like if Kerry was in office that all the problems would be solved, I mean, hello.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, the word it out. And I heard it from the Kerry people myself, not going to bash Bush. We're not going to be nasty.
And so one of the speakers tonight was wandering around the FleetCenter this morning -- I saw her. And listen to one of the things she said. Let's listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I am so excited about replacing this administration. I think that the Bush-Cheney presidency has been bad for America and bad for the world. I cannot wait to see them leave the White House -- the sooner the better. I wish we could move the inauguration up a few months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Isn't that just a pathetic example of not having anything to say positive? I just can't wait until they get out, like a little kid, do you think that is going to be a helpful speech tonight?
BONILLA: I hope she's measuring for the drapes already, because when you start to that you got it in a bag, they must mean you're in trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Rahm Emanuel.
EMANUEL: Well, first of all, as we all know, and you and I have run for office, four months is a long time in politics. But I would rather be us than you, because the fact of the matter is...
NOVAK: Let's talk about Hillary.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: I am going to talk about that.
Is that this administration -- there is nothing negative when you lay out choices in politics. And this administration has got us in an endless occupation and in a jobless economy. And the entire four days are going to say, here's our plan for moving America forward and for laying out -- and to tell you the truth, I don't think there's anything negative of saying that we are going to end what we've witnessed, this rendezvous with mediocrity that's come out of this administration.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Rahm, she didn't even say that. All she said is, I just can't wait to let them get out. Isn't that a silly thing?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Isn't that silly?
EMANUEL: Bob, I will get you the transcript from tonight and you will see, it will be a positive speech. Don't worry about what she caught her on that little clip from this afternoon. Don't worry about it.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: He's so ginned up with hatred for Senator Clinton and Mrs. Heinz Kerry.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I don't hate anybody except you, James.
EMANUEL: But you know what? What you said about Teresa Heinz, I would just like to note, is what people also said about Hillary Clinton. She will be a drag on Bill Clinton in 19 -- it's what people all said.
People are going to elect on whether you have an agenda and a plan for moving their lives forward, not whether you have a spouse that you like or don't like. And Teresa Heinz is a fresh, honest person.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman Bonilla, you are a fiscal conservative. And I know you have many fiscal conservatives in your district. And yet you have watched your administration, this Republican administration, preside over the biggest explosion in domestic spending since the Great Society.
You've watched a $5.6 trillion surplus dissipate, turn into a deficit as far as the eyes can see. How do you explain to your fellow fiscal conservatives back in Bexar County in South Texas how this administration has so lost its bearings, it has been become fiscally irresponsible and it has not taken care of the military? This must be causing a great deal of consternation and pain among your Republican supporters in your district, sir?
BONILLA: Well, maybe that's why I have won most of my elections by over 20 points over the years.
CARVILLE: No, I know that you are.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: But, nonetheless, we do have a plan now to try to cut the -- eliminate the deficit within a five-year period. Our bills this year, we're trying to approve less money than last year. So the fiscal conservative issue is
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Name me three programs that you all are cutting, that you all are doing away with. Eliminate three programs that this president has said, you know what, this is inefficient and we're going to do away with it.
BONILLA: Well, most importantly, we're cutting the dollars. And there's a bill that I'm in charge of myself on agriculture that's $67 million less than last year. The year before, it was almost $200 million less than the year before. So we are making some progress. (CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: And the people back home are talking about how this is a positive thing.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: This is after $3 trillion of additional debt. And now they're figuring out how to cut $67 million.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: I appreciate the effort.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I want to talk about the Democratic Convention. James doesn't want to talk about the Democratic Convention. And I don't blame him.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: But one of the speakers tonight looking to the future with Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. And we don't have Walter Mondale, but we do have Al Gore.
And I'm going to give you a sample of Al Gore's oratory earlier in the year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those are the feelings that were betrayed by this president!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
GORE: He betrayed this country! He played on our fears!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, I want to ask you a question, Rahm, and I want you to surprise me by giving me a yes-or-no answer.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: Would you like to see Al Gore repeat that performance tonight at the FleetCenter?
EMANUEL: I would like to see it just toned down just a notch.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: A big notch.
(LAUGHTER)
EMANUEL: No, let me tell you. Let me say this.
The fact is, this president, after 9/11, had carte blanche, Democratic, Republican, independent, every American and the world. And he spent it. And that's why we're the most isolated leader -- superpower in the world today.
CARVILLE: What made Al Gore a more popular vice president than Dick Cheney? What qualities did he have that Cheney doesn't have?
NOVAK: Hey, I like Dick Cheney better.
BONILLA: Maybe we could roll that tape again and maybe we can see the picture more clearly.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman, but why was he more popular? Why was he more popular than Dick Cheney? I'm just wondering. What qualities did Al Gore have that the American people, in their infinite wisdom saw, gave him higher ratings, higher approval than Dick Cheney gets?
NOVAK: You think that's a message that appeals to America?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm just trying to find out, Bob. I'm trying to get some expertise here from you guys.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: James, he lost the election in 2000.
CARVILLE: No, he won the election. He actually won it.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: We know for a fact that America -- as I said, and the American people know when I say we need allies in this war on terror.
CARVILLE: We have got to take a break.
Next, in "Rapid Fire" is Jerry Springer a good poster boy for the Democratic Party?
And in Iraq, it's a weapon that strikes fear across many party lines. Wolf Blitzer has details after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Boston.
Coming up at the top of the hour, the Democratic National Convention is now under way. We'll tell you what's happening right now.
Iraqi captors free an Egyptian diplomat. We'll discuss hostage- taking as a weapon of war with the former Defense Secretary William Cohen.
And he lost his own bid for reelection. Now he's trying to get John Kerry elected president. We'll talk with former Senator Max Cleland.
Those stories, much more, from the convention floor only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions even faster than the (INAUDIBLE) dumped tea in the Boston Harbor.
Our guests, the Illinois Democratic congressman, my dear friend Rahm Emanuel, in Texas, Republican Congressman Henry Bonilla.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, much in evidence at this convention has been Jerry Springer, the shock jock talk show host from Ohio, a major figure in the Ohio Democratic Party. Good idea or bad idea to have him much in evidence at this convention?
EMANUEL: The big evidence is going to be John Kerry. And that's what people are tuned into.
CARVILLE: Yes, Congressman Bonilla, Jerry Falwell is big evidence at Republican Conventions. I'm sure he'll be there big at this convention. Do you think Jerry Falwell is a positive for the Republican Party?
BONILLA: This election is going to be close. We'll take all the help we can get.
CARVILLE: So you want to put Jerry Falwell -- will he be
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: We want anyone who wants to help elect George W. Bush to help us.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman Emanuel, most of the people around here, including John Kerry, don't want to be called a liberal. Are you a liberal?
EMANUEL: Yes.
NOVAK: Congratulations.
EMANUEL: OK. Fine.
NOVAK: An honest man.
EMANUEL: That's fine. You know what I think it is? You have got to decide, do you have a sense that, with all the benefits that are going up in the boardroom, when it comes to health care security, retirement security, educational opportunity can also up on in employees' wage stubs? And if that's liberal, fine.
CARVILLE: What's more important, Congressman Bonilla, that we keep the tax cut for the top 1 percent or we fund the military adequately?
BONILLA: Both are important.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: But which one is more?
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: Both will happen, because, if you feed tax cuts to the economy, it produces more revenue long term and we'll have a stronger military.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, if you were running the show, would you have taken John Kerry to Fenway Park last night to get booed?
EMANUEL: I would take him to the game.
NOVAK: To get booed?
EMANUEL: It's fine to go to the game. It's a good game. It's a Red Sox-Yankee game. Who doesn't love that, Bob? Maybe -- if people don't like that, you can just kind of tell them to just shove it. You know what I mean?
NOVAK: Shove it?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: You didn't say shove it?
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: I'm not going to say what the vice president said, but shove it seems within the bounds of legal.
CARVILLE: Is the Republican high command concerned that the president has his opponent going into his convention tied or maybe slightly ahead in the polls? Is that bothering them?
BONILLA: Not at all. Your former boss Bill Clinton had numbers about like this right before his reelection. So did Ronald Reagan way back. So we're in perfect position now to even have a bigger margin than you probably think.
CARVILLE: So you all are very satisfied with your position?
BONILLA: We're very happy, because, in historic comparable times, the president in office wins with a significant margin.
EMANUEL: They should be satisfied with where Bush is. I'm not satisfied with where America is. NOVAK: Congressmen Rahm Emanuel, thank you very much.
EMANUEL: Thank you, Bob.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Congressman Henry Bonilla, thank you.
Lesson No. 1 in organizing a convention, don't make the reporters mad. Don't tell them to shove it. Next, I'll tell you about the big stink planners unleashed before this convention even got started.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: About 15,000 members of the media are here in Boston for the Democratic Convention. That could lead to a pretty long line at the restroom when nature calls. Convention planners promised to set up executive trailers with things like running water and air- conditioning. That's fine.
But while there is no shortage of reporters, there is a shortage of facilities. Leave it to the press corps to raise the first big stink of the Democratic Convention.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. And I really got to go because we don't have a Porta Potti out here. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another -- from Boston -- for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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Aired July 26, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE:
TERRY MCAULIFFE, DNC CHAIRMAN: The Democratic Party will now come to order!
ANNOUNCER: The convention is under way and the Democrats are promising to make nice.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have got to lower our voices in America and listen to each other.
ANNOUNCER: The Clintons are on the podium tonight. Can the Democrats tone down the anti-Bush rhetoric for a whole four days? Should they do it for the rest of the campaign?
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I cannot wait to see them leave the White House -- the sooner the better.
ANNOUNCER: Today, on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Election Express at the Democratic National Convention in Boston, James Carville and Robert Novak.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE across the river from the convention site and right next to the USS Constitution.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: The Democrats would like nothing better than to spend the week bashing President Bush and the Republicans. We'll debate whether they can possibly resist temptation and hold their fire.
But first, we're going to fire some political salvos of our own. Here comes the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Teresa Heinz Kerry is a good looking woman who looks all the better because she's worth $1 billion. That's a good reason why everybody treats her with such respect, especially her husband, John Kerry. But precisely because nobody ever corrects her, she spells big trouble for his campaign. Yesterday, she focused her political opponents -- she accused her political opponents of un-American traits and then denied Saturday what she said. When a political reporter persisted in questioning her, she put him in his place.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TERESA HEINZ KERRY, WIFE OF SENATOR JOHN KERRY: Of course. Understandable. You said something I didn't say. Now shove it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Her husband's staff then accused the reporter of working for a right-wing rag, meaning a newspaper that's not in the bag for the Democrats. That's an outrage to say that, but outrage is Teresa's middle name.
CARVILLE: She said shove it. Boy, what are we going to tell the children? What a terrible thing.
You know what? I like her. She's a woman who thinks for herself. And, Bob, I know how much that infuriates you and your right-wing friends.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: But you know what? She's a good lady.
I had the honor of hosting a Veterans For Kerry event today. It was packed with thousands of wildly enthusiastic veterans. I just told them what the main fact of this convention is, that John Kerry is just a much better man, just a much better man than George W. Bush. Man to man, there's no comparison. He has faced every man's three greatest fears, combat. He won the Silver Star. Cancer. He got out of bed and ran for president. Certain to be defeated, he came back to win his party's nomination faster than anyone has before.
It's a neat feeling to know that we just got the best man.
NOVAK: James, let me tell the other side of the story.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: There's a lot of veterans not happy with
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: James, let me just talk for a moment before you interrupt me.
A lot of people are not happy with John Kerry coming back from Vietnam, accusing his comrades of war crimes, acting like he was going to run for president, in fact, going into politics immediately afterwards. So there's a lot of veterans out there who are not happy with him. (CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Almost all the people that served with him, everyone that served on his boat were talking about what a tremendous, great leader he was.
You know, when he was getting shot at, George W. Bush wasn't even attending Air National Guard meetings. He's a man that has faced adversity, defeated it. We just got the best man, Bob. That's all. He's just -- Kerry's a better man.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: There's going to be a book coming out giving the other side of what the Vietnam veterans really think of John Kerry.
CARVILLE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I can assure of that.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: It seemed like such a good idea for the geniuses who run John Kerry's campaign, have him show up as a big surprise at the Red Sox-Yankees game last night.
These masterminds thought the old rule that politicians always get booed at sporting events does not apply to Senator John in his hometown. Well, it did apply. Bostonians out to root for the Red Sox did not want interruptions from any politician. They booed the mere mention of the convention, whose fantastic security arrangements have fouled up their life.
And then the senator, who is billed as a great athlete, threw a wild pitch. Is this a preview of the decision-making ability of the Kerry team?
CARVILLE: Just like when Dick Cheney went to Yankee Stadium.
Look, let me tell you, there was poll in "The Boston Herald," which is a right-wing newspaper here, about how wildly enthusiastic people in Boston are. Can't walk down the street here in Boston without people saying, Mr. Carville, thank you for coming to our city. We hope you enjoy it.
The weather is nice. The people are friendly. The Democrats are united. And we have got the best man.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: James, you said it 17 times. I'm sick of hearing it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: We have got the best man.
NOVAK: James, I wonder, you used to be a political manager. Don't you think it's a bum idea to put politicians at athletic events? You know that, don't you?
CARVILLE: No. He likes to go. He actually sports. So let him go where he wants to. See, we have got the best man, Bob.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Oh, it's making me ill.
CARVILLE: Shove it.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: It's making me ill.
CARVILLE: I want to take a moment to tip my hat to Terry McAuliffe, the much maligned chairman of the Democratic Party. Will Rogers once said, I don't belong to an organized party. I'm a Democrat.
In 2001, Chairman McAuliffe inherited a party that was fractured, fragmented and broke. As today's "Washington Post" reports, thanks to Chairman McAuliffe, the Democratic Party now has a new headquarters building, 170-million-person voter list, up-to-date technology and budget that's in the black.
Mr. McAuliffe, you have built a foundation for Democratic victories, not this year, but for a lot of years to come. And I salute you, sir.
NOVAK: The reason he is much-maligned is, he deserved to be. He was an artful dodger. He was involved in so many scandals that got out of. And he's so mean in his rhetoric that, when the Kerry people won the nomination, they said, shut up, Terry. And he has shut up since then.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: He's banging the gavel opening up the Democratic National -- he has done a tremendous job for this party. And he didn't pay attention to all these bloviating blowhards that said all this about him.
Terry, you've done a good job. We're damn proud to have you as party chairman.
NOVAK: They want to keep him off the tube as much as possible. And they have. You know that. That is a fact.
CARVILLE: I just saw over there open the convention.
NOVAK: All right, but he's not saying a word now. He's like a James Carville out there, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: He gets people mad.
CARVILLE: Well, they don't keep me off the air, Bob. I like to get them mad.
NOVAK: OK.
Democrats are gathering for the first night of their convention. Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Jimmy Carter speak tonight. Where in the world is Walter Mondale? Is this really a party looking to the future?
And, later, there's a big stink -- stink -- developing at this convention site. We'll tell you what it's all about later.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARVILLE: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The Democrats' big party is under way here in Boston. Right now, they're taking care of little things like the roll call, delegate credentials and the convention rules. The real fun starts tonight, when delegates hear speeches by Al Gore, former Presidents Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.
In the CROSSFIRE today are my dear friend and annoyingly -- annoying Congressman Rahm Emanuel, who is a Democrat from the great city of Chicago and a former senior adviser to President Bill Clinton, along with one of the few Republicans in town, Texas Congressman Henry Bonilla.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, I want you to come out on the level, in the open, and say what Democrats have been telling me privately for years.
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: Bob, shove it.
NOVAK: No, no.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: No, no. We have got to be polite. We have got to be polite.
That Teresa Heinz Kerry is a disaster waiting to happen, a train wreck waiting to happen and everybody is afraid to say anything because she's worth $1 billion and her husband is afraid of her, too. Is that correct?
EMANUEL: Wrong. It's that simple. No, Teresa, I think she adds a real freshness and people actually warm to her because of actually her freshness. And I think the best thing in politics is to be not political at all. And she comes off exactly like that, like she speaks her mind. And I think she's a real asset, and has proven to be.
NOVAK: Well, a lot -- a lot of Democrats I have talked to say that, boy, the person they really like is Elizabeth Edwards. She is motherly. She's nice.
And this woman is scary. Do you think it would look good for her to lie about what she said in public? She used the words un-American and she said, I never said it, because nobody has ever contradicted the billion-dollar babe.
EMANUEL: Two things real quickly. One, I don't know a one of us who haven't been in public service who would not have the courage to say what she said and didn't say it and bit our tongue to a reporter, but we did.
And, No. 2, this election is not about Teresa Heinz. It's about the agenda and the plan that her husband is going to lay out. And he is going to lay out one that deals with ending the wage and benefit recession that Americans are experiencing right now.
CARVILLE: Congressman Bonilla, you're from -- represent a good bit of San Antonio and Bexar County which is very, very pro-military, a lot of retired military bases there.
REP. HENRY BONILLA (R), TEXAS: You're familiar with it?
CARVILLE: Yes, sir.
And I know you have a very good record when it comes to the U.S. military. How does it make you feel as pro-military Republican when the GAO issues a report and says the military is running $12.3 billion short. The Navy and Air Force have canceled training exercise. The Air Force can't afford the cost of body armor for them in combat areas. The Army is asking the Marines to help cover its contract with Halliburton.
And the report found -- and I quote -- "We believe the deferral of these activities could result in a bow wave effect on the United States military." It must be killing your constituents, who a lot of them are good Republicans, to see this, the most anti-military administration in my lifetime. They have just almost completely wrecked the military.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: Well, maybe you didn't hear. Just a few days ago, we approved a bill in the House of Representatives with the Senate that is going to take care of a lot of these things.
I was in Iraq myself during the holiday season.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: And we saw some of the shortfalls. But we're taking care of that. And, again, we are doing it in a bipartisan way, frankly.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: We've got some good people on the committees working on this.
CARVILLE: Why are we not trying to fill up a $12.3 billion hole when we have got kids out there that don't have -- why wasn't the planning for this war in this administration, why was Dumbs-feld sitting there rejecting people that said all this was going to happen? That's what military people are asking us right now.
BONILLA: Everybody likes to be a Monday-morning quarter. And we're treading new water.
In the history of our country, we have never had the challenges that we now face with terrorism. And, quite frankly, we're a tasting a little bit of hell now, just like Israel has tasted for generations, just like Africans have tasted with a lot of the mass murder going on there, South America, dictatorships. Now we're facing a little bit of that now.
And, quite frankly, for a lot of people to stand up and say, hey, I could have, should have done it a different way, you ought to be ashamed of yourself if you're trying to second guess
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: I think we're doing the best we can.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: There's nothing Monday-morning quarterback about having a plan to secure the peace. Everybody knew about it before the war. Nobody wanted to listen about it.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: ... trying to act like if Kerry was in office that all the problems would be solved, I mean, hello.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, the word it out. And I heard it from the Kerry people myself, not going to bash Bush. We're not going to be nasty.
And so one of the speakers tonight was wandering around the FleetCenter this morning -- I saw her. And listen to one of the things she said. Let's listen to it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I am so excited about replacing this administration. I think that the Bush-Cheney presidency has been bad for America and bad for the world. I cannot wait to see them leave the White House -- the sooner the better. I wish we could move the inauguration up a few months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Isn't that just a pathetic example of not having anything to say positive? I just can't wait until they get out, like a little kid, do you think that is going to be a helpful speech tonight?
BONILLA: I hope she's measuring for the drapes already, because when you start to that you got it in a bag, they must mean you're in trouble.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Rahm Emanuel.
EMANUEL: Well, first of all, as we all know, and you and I have run for office, four months is a long time in politics. But I would rather be us than you, because the fact of the matter is...
NOVAK: Let's talk about Hillary.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: I am going to talk about that.
Is that this administration -- there is nothing negative when you lay out choices in politics. And this administration has got us in an endless occupation and in a jobless economy. And the entire four days are going to say, here's our plan for moving America forward and for laying out -- and to tell you the truth, I don't think there's anything negative of saying that we are going to end what we've witnessed, this rendezvous with mediocrity that's come out of this administration.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Rahm, she didn't even say that. All she said is, I just can't wait to let them get out. Isn't that a silly thing?
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Isn't that silly?
EMANUEL: Bob, I will get you the transcript from tonight and you will see, it will be a positive speech. Don't worry about what she caught her on that little clip from this afternoon. Don't worry about it.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I can't wait. I can't wait. I can't wait.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: He's so ginned up with hatred for Senator Clinton and Mrs. Heinz Kerry.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I don't hate anybody except you, James.
EMANUEL: But you know what? What you said about Teresa Heinz, I would just like to note, is what people also said about Hillary Clinton. She will be a drag on Bill Clinton in 19 -- it's what people all said.
People are going to elect on whether you have an agenda and a plan for moving their lives forward, not whether you have a spouse that you like or don't like. And Teresa Heinz is a fresh, honest person.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman Bonilla, you are a fiscal conservative. And I know you have many fiscal conservatives in your district. And yet you have watched your administration, this Republican administration, preside over the biggest explosion in domestic spending since the Great Society.
You've watched a $5.6 trillion surplus dissipate, turn into a deficit as far as the eyes can see. How do you explain to your fellow fiscal conservatives back in Bexar County in South Texas how this administration has so lost its bearings, it has been become fiscally irresponsible and it has not taken care of the military? This must be causing a great deal of consternation and pain among your Republican supporters in your district, sir?
BONILLA: Well, maybe that's why I have won most of my elections by over 20 points over the years.
CARVILLE: No, I know that you are.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: But, nonetheless, we do have a plan now to try to cut the -- eliminate the deficit within a five-year period. Our bills this year, we're trying to approve less money than last year. So the fiscal conservative issue is
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Name me three programs that you all are cutting, that you all are doing away with. Eliminate three programs that this president has said, you know what, this is inefficient and we're going to do away with it.
BONILLA: Well, most importantly, we're cutting the dollars. And there's a bill that I'm in charge of myself on agriculture that's $67 million less than last year. The year before, it was almost $200 million less than the year before. So we are making some progress. (CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: And the people back home are talking about how this is a positive thing.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: This is after $3 trillion of additional debt. And now they're figuring out how to cut $67 million.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: I appreciate the effort.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I want to talk about the Democratic Convention. James doesn't want to talk about the Democratic Convention. And I don't blame him.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: But one of the speakers tonight looking to the future with Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. And we don't have Walter Mondale, but we do have Al Gore.
And I'm going to give you a sample of Al Gore's oratory earlier in the year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those are the feelings that were betrayed by this president!
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
GORE: He betrayed this country! He played on our fears!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, I want to ask you a question, Rahm, and I want you to surprise me by giving me a yes-or-no answer.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: Would you like to see Al Gore repeat that performance tonight at the FleetCenter?
EMANUEL: I would like to see it just toned down just a notch.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: A big notch.
(LAUGHTER)
EMANUEL: No, let me tell you. Let me say this.
The fact is, this president, after 9/11, had carte blanche, Democratic, Republican, independent, every American and the world. And he spent it. And that's why we're the most isolated leader -- superpower in the world today.
CARVILLE: What made Al Gore a more popular vice president than Dick Cheney? What qualities did he have that Cheney doesn't have?
NOVAK: Hey, I like Dick Cheney better.
BONILLA: Maybe we could roll that tape again and maybe we can see the picture more clearly.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman, but why was he more popular? Why was he more popular than Dick Cheney? I'm just wondering. What qualities did Al Gore have that the American people, in their infinite wisdom saw, gave him higher ratings, higher approval than Dick Cheney gets?
NOVAK: You think that's a message that appeals to America?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm just trying to find out, Bob. I'm trying to get some expertise here from you guys.
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: James, he lost the election in 2000.
CARVILLE: No, he won the election. He actually won it.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: We know for a fact that America -- as I said, and the American people know when I say we need allies in this war on terror.
CARVILLE: We have got to take a break.
Next, in "Rapid Fire" is Jerry Springer a good poster boy for the Democratic Party?
And in Iraq, it's a weapon that strikes fear across many party lines. Wolf Blitzer has details after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Boston.
Coming up at the top of the hour, the Democratic National Convention is now under way. We'll tell you what's happening right now.
Iraqi captors free an Egyptian diplomat. We'll discuss hostage- taking as a weapon of war with the former Defense Secretary William Cohen.
And he lost his own bid for reelection. Now he's trying to get John Kerry elected president. We'll talk with former Senator Max Cleland.
Those stories, much more, from the convention floor only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions even faster than the (INAUDIBLE) dumped tea in the Boston Harbor.
Our guests, the Illinois Democratic congressman, my dear friend Rahm Emanuel, in Texas, Republican Congressman Henry Bonilla.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, much in evidence at this convention has been Jerry Springer, the shock jock talk show host from Ohio, a major figure in the Ohio Democratic Party. Good idea or bad idea to have him much in evidence at this convention?
EMANUEL: The big evidence is going to be John Kerry. And that's what people are tuned into.
CARVILLE: Yes, Congressman Bonilla, Jerry Falwell is big evidence at Republican Conventions. I'm sure he'll be there big at this convention. Do you think Jerry Falwell is a positive for the Republican Party?
BONILLA: This election is going to be close. We'll take all the help we can get.
CARVILLE: So you want to put Jerry Falwell -- will he be
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: We want anyone who wants to help elect George W. Bush to help us.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman Emanuel, most of the people around here, including John Kerry, don't want to be called a liberal. Are you a liberal?
EMANUEL: Yes.
NOVAK: Congratulations.
EMANUEL: OK. Fine.
NOVAK: An honest man.
EMANUEL: That's fine. You know what I think it is? You have got to decide, do you have a sense that, with all the benefits that are going up in the boardroom, when it comes to health care security, retirement security, educational opportunity can also up on in employees' wage stubs? And if that's liberal, fine.
CARVILLE: What's more important, Congressman Bonilla, that we keep the tax cut for the top 1 percent or we fund the military adequately?
BONILLA: Both are important.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: But which one is more?
(CROSSTALK)
BONILLA: Both will happen, because, if you feed tax cuts to the economy, it produces more revenue long term and we'll have a stronger military.
NOVAK: Congressman Emanuel, if you were running the show, would you have taken John Kerry to Fenway Park last night to get booed?
EMANUEL: I would take him to the game.
NOVAK: To get booed?
EMANUEL: It's fine to go to the game. It's a good game. It's a Red Sox-Yankee game. Who doesn't love that, Bob? Maybe -- if people don't like that, you can just kind of tell them to just shove it. You know what I mean?
NOVAK: Shove it?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: You didn't say shove it?
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: I'm not going to say what the vice president said, but shove it seems within the bounds of legal.
CARVILLE: Is the Republican high command concerned that the president has his opponent going into his convention tied or maybe slightly ahead in the polls? Is that bothering them?
BONILLA: Not at all. Your former boss Bill Clinton had numbers about like this right before his reelection. So did Ronald Reagan way back. So we're in perfect position now to even have a bigger margin than you probably think.
CARVILLE: So you all are very satisfied with your position?
BONILLA: We're very happy, because, in historic comparable times, the president in office wins with a significant margin.
EMANUEL: They should be satisfied with where Bush is. I'm not satisfied with where America is. NOVAK: Congressmen Rahm Emanuel, thank you very much.
EMANUEL: Thank you, Bob.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Congressman Henry Bonilla, thank you.
Lesson No. 1 in organizing a convention, don't make the reporters mad. Don't tell them to shove it. Next, I'll tell you about the big stink planners unleashed before this convention even got started.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: About 15,000 members of the media are here in Boston for the Democratic Convention. That could lead to a pretty long line at the restroom when nature calls. Convention planners promised to set up executive trailers with things like running water and air- conditioning. That's fine.
But while there is no shortage of reporters, there is a shortage of facilities. Leave it to the press corps to raise the first big stink of the Democratic Convention.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. And I really got to go because we don't have a Porta Potti out here. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another -- from Boston -- for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
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