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CNN Crossfire
60 Days Left For Bush and Kerry
Aired September 03, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: We're watching two developing stories. Bill Clinton is scheduled for heart bypass surgery and Hurricane Frances heads for Florida.
Plus, the conventions are over. The balloons have dropped. President Bush and Senator Kerry have 60 days left to make their case.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our economy is strong and getting stronger.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you believe we can do better, we want you to join us in these next 60 days.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from New York City, James Carville and Tucker Carlson.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
To say the least, this isn't what we expected on our last day in New York City would be like. Former president and my dear friend President Clinton hospitalized today with a heart bypass operation. Before cutting short a visit to the New York State Fair a few hours ago, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton told an audience that her husband didn't feel good yesterday and they went to their local hospital for some tests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: He said he -- you know, he felt fine and not to worry and he'd see me at the fair. But his doctors asked him to come back early this morning for some additional tests.
And, as a result of those additional tests at Westchester Medical Center, they did advise him to have bypass surgery, and to do it soon, as soon as he could.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Mrs. Clinton has arrived at New York Presbyterian Hospital.
For the very latest on the former president, let's go to Alina Cho.
Alina, what do you know?
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tucker, an aide to Senator -- an aide to Senator Clinton tells CNN, told us a short time ago that Mrs. Clinton will not be making additional press statements today, that she is here to -- quote -- "be with her husband."
Mrs. Clinton's motorcade arrived here at New York's Presbyterian Hospital about an hour ago. It is unclear whether daughter Chelsea was with her, though they are both expected to be at the former president's side. Mrs. Clinton was at the New York State Fair in Syracuse when she cut that visit short. This was an event that the former president was expected to attend as well. Of course that didn't happen.
Yesterday, as you all mentioned, Mr. Clinton checked himself into Northern Westchester Hospital. That's about a 30-minute drive from New York City. He complained of mild chest pain, shortness of breath. Initial tests were normal, so he spent the night nearby at his home in Chappaqua.
Today, he went back for additional tests at that same hospital. And that is when doctors advised him that he should undergo bypass surgery as soon as possible. And CNN has learned that bypass surgery could happen as early as today.
Mr. Clinton, we understand, is staying at the Mckean (ph) Pavilion. That is a private VIP wing on the ninth floor of this building. It is here that bypass surgeries are performed. New York Presbyterian Hospital, by the way, is the only hospital in the New York area to rank among the honor roll in the most recent New York -- "U.S. News & World Report," rather.
And just a moment ago, Tucker, I spoke to a man whose wife is also staying on this private wing on the ninth floor. He said she has been here for about a week and that he noticed a dramatic increase in security today. He said he was asked upon arriving on the ninth floor who he was there to see, that there was a list of all the patients there. And when he asked a security guard how the former president was doing, he was told he is doing very well -- Tucker.
CARLSON: All right, CNN's Alina Cho, thank you very much.
Well, to explain more about what's ahead -- could be ahead for the former president, we're joined by Dr. Richard Stein, associate chairman of medicine at Beth Israel Medical Center here in New York, as well as a spokesman for the American Heart Association.
Welcome, Dr. Stein. Now, President Clinton by all appearances seems more vigorous and healthy, outwardly, anyway, than he ever has. How do you think -- do you have any sense of how he might have gotten heart disease? How does a healthy man at that age get heart disease?
DR. RICHARD STEIN, BETH ISRAEL MEDICAL CENTER: Well, I think we understand a good deal about why people get heart disease.
We know that having a high cholesterol, smoking, having high blood pressure, sedentary, all of these contribute to your risk of development heart disease.
CARLSON: But he doesn't smoke.
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: Right.
CARLSON: Right. So I guess my point is, he seems to be doing right. Famously, he has lost all this weight. He exercises every day.
STEIN: Well, in a large part, your heart disease is something you probably earn over 10 or 15 years as a minimum. And so you'd have to look at that whole time.
But also, there's a great deal about heart disease we still don't understand, inherited factors, other factors that play a role in it. I think the most important thing here that he did was when he had his early symptoms, chest pain, rather than stay home and take an antacid or decide it couldn't be his heart, he immediately went for care in the hospital. They made an appropriate diagnose, presumably, this morning or yesterday, did an angiogram and determined that bypass surgery was important.
And then it's going to done at one of our better hospitals to do that. So I think responding by getting excellent care is just a critical part of outliving heart disease.
CARVILLE: Let's go through this a little bit.
Assume that -- what -- how long are we talking about a recovery in a normal situation? How long would we expect President Clinton to be in the hospital?
STEIN: Well, I think he could be out of the hospital by four or five days, certainly by a week, back to being active over a period of weeks, and certainly by six weeks, back to full activity.
CARVILLE: Oh, really? So he could -- before this campaign is over, he could be out campaigning or having fund-raisers or doing any of these things that...
STEIN: The answer is yes.
In fact, he should be a lot healthier six weeks from now than he was six weeks ago, because we will have dramatically improved the flow of blood to his heart.
CARVILLE: So he could have been just kind of feeling tired or so for the last six weeks and not even known it or...
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: You always wonder if there weren't some prodromal symptoms before the chest pain.
And if you talk to most of my patients, they will tell me that, in the weeks leading up to their initial severe chest pain that got them to go to the hospital, there were some signs of fatigue and some signs of weakness and some vague discomfort. And that probably didn't reach a high enough level to concern him.
CARVILLE: A lot of people out there want to know this, and I'll ask you. As a rule, in a place like a Columbia Presbyterian, how risky is surgery like this?
STEIN: In general, at a very good open heart hospital, like the ones in the city that do so many of these, we expect a risk of less than 1 percent.
CARVILLE: So it's not -- and just one more question for -- I want to ask you one more thing, is, people say a quadruple bypass, and they go, oh, my goodness. Is it really quadruple, triple? Does the risk increase with that? Or what's the deal there?
STEIN: The risk increases slightly with the more vessels you need, but really not a great deal.
It is a major operation, a true tour de force in terms of watching it, seeing all the things that have to get done to the body and the heart. But it also the most commonly performed operation in the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: More than
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... appendicitis?
STEIN: Absolutely. More than gallbladder. More than that. And it's something that we're just so very good at that we can do this -- that when I started was three weeks in the hospital to recover, is now four or five days, and you're home. It's astounding.
CARVILLE: Unbelievable.
CARLSON: Dr. Richard stein, thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: Thank you. That was comforting I know to Americans everywhere and particularly to this friend of President Clinton's. And thank you so much for coming on and sharing your expertise.
CARLSON: Well, there is a lot of news on this Friday, unusually, yet another developing story this afternoon.
Hurricane Frances, a storm that is twice the size of last month's devastating Hurricane Charley, is battering the Bahamas, as it slowly, but steadily approaches the state of Florida.
CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us by videophone from Freeport in the Bahamas.
Karl, what's it like?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Tucker.
Yes, the leading edge of Hurricane Frances is now starting to weigh in on Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama. This is really the last island in the 700-island chain that makes up the Bahamas. So people here have been bracing now for the best part of 36 hours preparing.
As I say, though, the leading edge now really hitting. We're getting very, very strong gusts of wind now. The rain is beginning to sheet down. And things from here on in, for the next few hours, will only get worse, meteorologists tell us. They have already told us that they expect that this could be one of the worst hurricanes in the Bahamas history. They say they believe that it could be almost catastrophic.
In the last few moments, we have just returned from a tour around part of the island. We've seen trees already down around the some of the roads and some of the roads already flooding, those that are very close to the ocean side. And this is low tide right now. We expect things to get worse as high tide comes and the meteorologists predicting tidal surges of anything between 14 and 18 feet -- Tucker.
CARLSON: Oh. Karl Penhaul in Freeport in the Bahamas. High drama, 18 feet. Thank you. Be careful. And we'll talk to you in a little bit.
Well, not to ask the vulgar political questions, but we will nonetheless. Will Bill Clinton's heart trouble hurt his ability to campaign and raise money for John Kerry? We're debating that, thinking ahead.
And, also, will President Bush get the bounce he's looking for out of this week's Republican Convention here in New York?
Stay with us for updates on the progress of Hurricane Frances and all the news unfolding today.
We'll be right back. ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well, both President Bush and Senator John Kerry are sending their best wishes to former President Bill Clinton, who is ailing here in New York. It may be the only thing the president and the senator can agree at this point as they race from one campaign rally to the next.
A just-released "TIME" magazine poll shows that, for the very first time since the presidential race became a two-man contest last spring, there is a clear leader. And it is -- surprise -- President Bush, who has opened a 52-41 percent lead, according to "TIME"'s poll.
We're joined by two members of New York's congressional delegate, Democrat Gregory Meeks and Republican Vito Fossella.
Thanks for joining us both.
REP. VITO FOSSELLA (R), NEW YORK: Good to be with you.
CARLSON: Mr. Meeks, everyone -- there is just bipartisan consensus of hope that President Clinton gets better. And there's no doubt in my mind that he will. He's young and vigorous.
Do you think there's any political implication to this? He is, let's be honest, much more popular than John Kerry among Democrats. And I imagine the Kerry campaign was counting on his help this fall for the next two months as he barnstorms the country. If it turns out he can't accompany John Kerry, that hurts Kerry doesn't it?
REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: Well, no. Bill Clinton is the comeback kid, No. 1. So I know he's going to be back. And we do wish him well that he is going to have a speedy recovery.
But I think really what this race is about which direction is America going to move in? Are we going to go in the wrong direction, as George Bush has led us, or in the right direction? And I think, as we get to deal with the issues that are important, the American people are going to want to go in the right direction, because they understand that George Bush is leading us in the wrong direction, wrong with jobs, wrong with health care, wrong with Iraq.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, I'm not sure they do understand that. According to a new "TIME" magazine poll and despite the propaganda that just emerged from your lips, it turns out that 52 percent of Americans when asked said they prefer President Bush. But the significant number is this. Only 41 percent said they preferred John Kerry. That's a huge spread, 11 points, and it's something we haven't seen for the past, say, six months. And it's kind of an ominous sign. You're terrified, aren't you?
MEEKS: No, look, we just finished the Republican Convention. You all had four days of masquerade party, where you masqueraded, you masquerade what your issues are, you told different things to the American people. That's going to come to an end now.
John Kerry gave the opening note at 12:00 a.m. last night. That is going to change. You got this bump. The bump will be over. The American people will hear the truth, as John Kerry moves forward.
CARLSON: And it will set them free, I imagine.
CARVILLE: Congressman Fossella, I'm just kind of curious. We've got to get to some reality here. Today, the job numbers were nothing short of pathetic, 144,000 jobs, which, if you had that every month, you would lose almost as many jobs as Bush has lost everywhere.
When do you think that this president will be able to get this country where it is actually creating more jobs and jobs are coming on? Is it possible that he could possibly do this?
FOSSELLA: I think, given the fact that the president inherited a recession and got through the largest tax cut to help rebuild our economy and put people back to work, he deserves a lot of credit.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSSELLA: And, secondly, I think the most important issue facing this country is our national security. And that's why I think you see the poll numbers move the way they do. They see two people. One is a strong, principled leader in President Bush, the one who is going to cut taxes on the American people and make this country the ownership society that belongs to people.
CARVILLE: So you don't really have an answer on jobs, so let's go to national security. And let me say, the president in June said we could win the war on terror. And then, in late August, he said we couldn't win the war on terror.
So while we were losing all these jobs, what happened to convince the president between June, when he said we could win the war on terror, and late August, when he said we couldn't? What was the intervening event there? It couldn't have been the jobs we're losing, because you want to go right to your turf, foreign policy.
FOSSELLA: The turf, again, is I think more people are working. And we need to give -- I think the president believes that we need to give employers the opportunity to hire more people and create more jobs. And he's doing that.
The answers are here in New York City and across this country. And the answer doesn't necessarily come out of Washington. In terms of foreign policy and on national security, the truth is clear. We are winning the war on terror. The president believes that to be true. And, fortunately, we have brave men and women who wear our nation's uniform in the Air Force, the Marines and the Army, who are across the board in Afghanistan and Iraq.
They're going to be the reasons why not only are we going to be safe, but millions will be free. And that's the message that the American people are hearing between now and November. And I believe that is why President Bush will be reelected.
CARLSON: Congressman, the poll that we just were talking about gets more interesting when you break it up.
What I was surprised by is that, of all the issues presented by pollsters to respondents, the economy was the No. 1 concern of most people asked. And George Bush won when you asked people who's a better steward of that economy. If Democrats can't win on that question, they have no chance in the fall. You know that.
MEEKS: Democrats are going to win on all the issues, because Democrats are moving in the right direction.
You just came from a month where you had this masquerade party. And what's going to come out clearly -- you don't have to take my word for it. But people are manufacturing John Kerry's record. In fact, you can just look at today's "Wall Street" -- I mean today's "Washington Post" talking about how his record is being distorted by the GOP. And these facts are going to soon come out.
I urge all of them out there to begin -- just pick it up on the Web site and look at the record of -- especially about defense and watch how similar that Dick Cheney, talking about the 1990s, different period of time, talking about downgrading some of our weapons systems, because we're going after the Soviet Union.
Look at it. The truth is going to come out. Now the time for this -- the four days that they had, those days are over. The truth will come out.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Hold on.
CARVILLE: Go ahead.
CARLSON: Given that most records haven't yet seen "The Washington Post," do you find -- it's sort of telling that even after week after week of Kerry calling Bush a coward because he didn't fight so bravely in Vietnam, et cetera, et cetera, that Kerry is still losing on national security and terrorism by 21 points. Why is that?
MEEKS: Wait a minute. You have got it wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
MEEKS: You have got a convention where they mentioned Kerry's name more than they mentioned Bush's name. Never once did I hear Osama bin Laden's name.
And we're fighting the war on terror, I think that's the person who has terrorized us, not -- not Iraq. We talk about an administration that said in the beginning that it would cost us $20 billion and that the American taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for it, that it would come from the oil reserves in Iraq.
Well, we're now above $200 billion, spending $1.5 billion a week, based upon the lies that we were told. We were told when we went into Iraq they were going to be waving the American flag. Well, we don't see that happening yet. So there seems to be -- it's a disaster. And when the president said
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we have got to go to -- OK.
When we come back, our guests face "Rapid Fire." And we'll ask what in the world got into John Kerry last night.
And just ahead, we'll get the latest on President Bill Clinton and Hurricane Frances. Wolf Blitzer reports right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York.
Coming up at the top of the hour, former President Bill Clinton faces heart surgery in New York City. We'll have details.
Hurricane Frances slams the Bahamas and bears down on Florida. We'll got there for the latest.
And a bloody end to the Russian school standoff. Hundreds are dead or wounded.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions a whole lot faster than the Bush economy is creating jobs.
We're talking to two of New York's finest congressmen, Democrat Gregory Meeks and Republican Vito Fossella.
Congressman Fossella, we have already wasted $200 billion in Iraq. The budget deficit is going to come in now and projected it may be around $500 billion. What is President Bush going to say in October?
FOSSELLA: I think he's saying what he said all along. The core of our fundamental values is freedom and opportunity to the American people. And I think we also have a responsibility to liberate others, while securing our national interests. And that's why the president has been willing to wage this war against terror. And when given the choice between raising taxes or reducing taxes, he's choosing reducing taxes by placing his faith in the American people. And I think you'll hear that time and time again.
CARLSON: Now, Congressman Meeks, you said nice words a moment ago about Senator Kerry's midnight speech last night, leading me to believe you must not have seen it, because it was completely disjointed. He ad-libbed it. A lot of his lines didn't make sense.
Shouldn't they give him a script to read before he goes on national television?
MEEKS: No, I think it was very clear.
And what was very clear is that he's not going to sit back and allow individuals to discredit him, when he knows that he's a hero.
CARLSON: He does think he's a hero.
(CROSSTALK)
MEEKS: And, Tucker, he is not going to allow Dick Cheney -- because I wonder where he was when it was time for him to be called -- he's not going to George Bush, he's not going to allow the swift boat guys or any of that to discredit him, when he knows what he did.
And he wants George Bush to come out. I want to know when Bush is going to agree to those three debates so they can stand up mano-a- mano next to one another?
CARVILLE: There are indications that -- there have traditionally been three presidential debates. There are indications that President Bush, who of course his whole life has been shirking from responsibility and confrontation, that he only wants two.
Do you think, as a Republican, isn't this is a sort of ninny-fied thing to have two debates, when the country has always seen three?
(BELL RINGING)
FOSSELLA: Oh, I don't know. I think the jury is still out on that. And I think, in terms of shirking responsibility, I think the president has been elected once. He will be reelected because he...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... going to refight that. We are out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Thank you both very much. We'll do that show again.
We'll have the latest on the direction and strength of Hurricane Frances right after the break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
We have just enough time left for an update on Hurricane Frances.
Let's go to meteorologist Jacqui Jeras at the CNN Weather Center -- Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Tucker, the 5:00 advisory just in now.
And Hurricane Frances holding its own, staying steady as a category 3 hurricane, packing winds of 115 miles per hour. These outer bands already hitting the Florida coastline with some heavy rain showers and wind gusts up and down the east Florida coast between 25 and 35 miles per hour.
Here's your latest advisory and the latest forecast track. This is exactly the same as the forecast track from 11:00. So that puts higher confidence in the location of where we're expecting landfall here, somewhere along the east Florida coastline somewhere along in the center.
Here's what the bottom line is, what you can expect. For the rest of tonight, we are going to start to see the tropical storm force winds moving in. In the overnight hours, we can expect to see hurricane force winds arriving, landfall still a little bit uncertain, but the central Florida coast in high flooding threat, up to 20 inches of rain locally in the path -- Tucker, James, back to you.
CARVILLE: Here's wishing President Clinton back.
And the whole state of Florida, with the exception of Gainesville, good luck as you face the third hurricane you have had.
CARLSON: That's right on both counts.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: I hate to agree with you, but I do.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again next week back in Washington for yet more CROSSFIRE. Thanks for joining us in New York.
We'll see you then.
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Aired September 3, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: We're watching two developing stories. Bill Clinton is scheduled for heart bypass surgery and Hurricane Frances heads for Florida.
Plus, the conventions are over. The balloons have dropped. President Bush and Senator Kerry have 60 days left to make their case.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our economy is strong and getting stronger.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you believe we can do better, we want you to join us in these next 60 days.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from New York City, James Carville and Tucker Carlson.
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
To say the least, this isn't what we expected on our last day in New York City would be like. Former president and my dear friend President Clinton hospitalized today with a heart bypass operation. Before cutting short a visit to the New York State Fair a few hours ago, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton told an audience that her husband didn't feel good yesterday and they went to their local hospital for some tests.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: He said he -- you know, he felt fine and not to worry and he'd see me at the fair. But his doctors asked him to come back early this morning for some additional tests.
And, as a result of those additional tests at Westchester Medical Center, they did advise him to have bypass surgery, and to do it soon, as soon as he could.
(END VIDEO CLIP) TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Mrs. Clinton has arrived at New York Presbyterian Hospital.
For the very latest on the former president, let's go to Alina Cho.
Alina, what do you know?
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Tucker, an aide to Senator -- an aide to Senator Clinton tells CNN, told us a short time ago that Mrs. Clinton will not be making additional press statements today, that she is here to -- quote -- "be with her husband."
Mrs. Clinton's motorcade arrived here at New York's Presbyterian Hospital about an hour ago. It is unclear whether daughter Chelsea was with her, though they are both expected to be at the former president's side. Mrs. Clinton was at the New York State Fair in Syracuse when she cut that visit short. This was an event that the former president was expected to attend as well. Of course that didn't happen.
Yesterday, as you all mentioned, Mr. Clinton checked himself into Northern Westchester Hospital. That's about a 30-minute drive from New York City. He complained of mild chest pain, shortness of breath. Initial tests were normal, so he spent the night nearby at his home in Chappaqua.
Today, he went back for additional tests at that same hospital. And that is when doctors advised him that he should undergo bypass surgery as soon as possible. And CNN has learned that bypass surgery could happen as early as today.
Mr. Clinton, we understand, is staying at the Mckean (ph) Pavilion. That is a private VIP wing on the ninth floor of this building. It is here that bypass surgeries are performed. New York Presbyterian Hospital, by the way, is the only hospital in the New York area to rank among the honor roll in the most recent New York -- "U.S. News & World Report," rather.
And just a moment ago, Tucker, I spoke to a man whose wife is also staying on this private wing on the ninth floor. He said she has been here for about a week and that he noticed a dramatic increase in security today. He said he was asked upon arriving on the ninth floor who he was there to see, that there was a list of all the patients there. And when he asked a security guard how the former president was doing, he was told he is doing very well -- Tucker.
CARLSON: All right, CNN's Alina Cho, thank you very much.
Well, to explain more about what's ahead -- could be ahead for the former president, we're joined by Dr. Richard Stein, associate chairman of medicine at Beth Israel Medical Center here in New York, as well as a spokesman for the American Heart Association.
Welcome, Dr. Stein. Now, President Clinton by all appearances seems more vigorous and healthy, outwardly, anyway, than he ever has. How do you think -- do you have any sense of how he might have gotten heart disease? How does a healthy man at that age get heart disease?
DR. RICHARD STEIN, BETH ISRAEL MEDICAL CENTER: Well, I think we understand a good deal about why people get heart disease.
We know that having a high cholesterol, smoking, having high blood pressure, sedentary, all of these contribute to your risk of development heart disease.
CARLSON: But he doesn't smoke.
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: Right.
CARLSON: Right. So I guess my point is, he seems to be doing right. Famously, he has lost all this weight. He exercises every day.
STEIN: Well, in a large part, your heart disease is something you probably earn over 10 or 15 years as a minimum. And so you'd have to look at that whole time.
But also, there's a great deal about heart disease we still don't understand, inherited factors, other factors that play a role in it. I think the most important thing here that he did was when he had his early symptoms, chest pain, rather than stay home and take an antacid or decide it couldn't be his heart, he immediately went for care in the hospital. They made an appropriate diagnose, presumably, this morning or yesterday, did an angiogram and determined that bypass surgery was important.
And then it's going to done at one of our better hospitals to do that. So I think responding by getting excellent care is just a critical part of outliving heart disease.
CARVILLE: Let's go through this a little bit.
Assume that -- what -- how long are we talking about a recovery in a normal situation? How long would we expect President Clinton to be in the hospital?
STEIN: Well, I think he could be out of the hospital by four or five days, certainly by a week, back to being active over a period of weeks, and certainly by six weeks, back to full activity.
CARVILLE: Oh, really? So he could -- before this campaign is over, he could be out campaigning or having fund-raisers or doing any of these things that...
STEIN: The answer is yes.
In fact, he should be a lot healthier six weeks from now than he was six weeks ago, because we will have dramatically improved the flow of blood to his heart.
CARVILLE: So he could have been just kind of feeling tired or so for the last six weeks and not even known it or...
(CROSSTALK)
STEIN: You always wonder if there weren't some prodromal symptoms before the chest pain.
And if you talk to most of my patients, they will tell me that, in the weeks leading up to their initial severe chest pain that got them to go to the hospital, there were some signs of fatigue and some signs of weakness and some vague discomfort. And that probably didn't reach a high enough level to concern him.
CARVILLE: A lot of people out there want to know this, and I'll ask you. As a rule, in a place like a Columbia Presbyterian, how risky is surgery like this?
STEIN: In general, at a very good open heart hospital, like the ones in the city that do so many of these, we expect a risk of less than 1 percent.
CARVILLE: So it's not -- and just one more question for -- I want to ask you one more thing, is, people say a quadruple bypass, and they go, oh, my goodness. Is it really quadruple, triple? Does the risk increase with that? Or what's the deal there?
STEIN: The risk increases slightly with the more vessels you need, but really not a great deal.
It is a major operation, a true tour de force in terms of watching it, seeing all the things that have to get done to the body and the heart. But it also the most commonly performed operation in the United States.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: More than
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... appendicitis?
STEIN: Absolutely. More than gallbladder. More than that. And it's something that we're just so very good at that we can do this -- that when I started was three weeks in the hospital to recover, is now four or five days, and you're home. It's astounding.
CARVILLE: Unbelievable.
CARLSON: Dr. Richard stein, thank you very much for joining us. Appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: Thank you. That was comforting I know to Americans everywhere and particularly to this friend of President Clinton's. And thank you so much for coming on and sharing your expertise.
CARLSON: Well, there is a lot of news on this Friday, unusually, yet another developing story this afternoon.
Hurricane Frances, a storm that is twice the size of last month's devastating Hurricane Charley, is battering the Bahamas, as it slowly, but steadily approaches the state of Florida.
CNN's Karl Penhaul joins us by videophone from Freeport in the Bahamas.
Karl, what's it like?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Tucker.
Yes, the leading edge of Hurricane Frances is now starting to weigh in on Freeport on the island of Grand Bahama. This is really the last island in the 700-island chain that makes up the Bahamas. So people here have been bracing now for the best part of 36 hours preparing.
As I say, though, the leading edge now really hitting. We're getting very, very strong gusts of wind now. The rain is beginning to sheet down. And things from here on in, for the next few hours, will only get worse, meteorologists tell us. They have already told us that they expect that this could be one of the worst hurricanes in the Bahamas history. They say they believe that it could be almost catastrophic.
In the last few moments, we have just returned from a tour around part of the island. We've seen trees already down around the some of the roads and some of the roads already flooding, those that are very close to the ocean side. And this is low tide right now. We expect things to get worse as high tide comes and the meteorologists predicting tidal surges of anything between 14 and 18 feet -- Tucker.
CARLSON: Oh. Karl Penhaul in Freeport in the Bahamas. High drama, 18 feet. Thank you. Be careful. And we'll talk to you in a little bit.
Well, not to ask the vulgar political questions, but we will nonetheless. Will Bill Clinton's heart trouble hurt his ability to campaign and raise money for John Kerry? We're debating that, thinking ahead.
And, also, will President Bush get the bounce he's looking for out of this week's Republican Convention here in New York?
Stay with us for updates on the progress of Hurricane Frances and all the news unfolding today.
We'll be right back. ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Well, both President Bush and Senator John Kerry are sending their best wishes to former President Bill Clinton, who is ailing here in New York. It may be the only thing the president and the senator can agree at this point as they race from one campaign rally to the next.
A just-released "TIME" magazine poll shows that, for the very first time since the presidential race became a two-man contest last spring, there is a clear leader. And it is -- surprise -- President Bush, who has opened a 52-41 percent lead, according to "TIME"'s poll.
We're joined by two members of New York's congressional delegate, Democrat Gregory Meeks and Republican Vito Fossella.
Thanks for joining us both.
REP. VITO FOSSELLA (R), NEW YORK: Good to be with you.
CARLSON: Mr. Meeks, everyone -- there is just bipartisan consensus of hope that President Clinton gets better. And there's no doubt in my mind that he will. He's young and vigorous.
Do you think there's any political implication to this? He is, let's be honest, much more popular than John Kerry among Democrats. And I imagine the Kerry campaign was counting on his help this fall for the next two months as he barnstorms the country. If it turns out he can't accompany John Kerry, that hurts Kerry doesn't it?
REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: Well, no. Bill Clinton is the comeback kid, No. 1. So I know he's going to be back. And we do wish him well that he is going to have a speedy recovery.
But I think really what this race is about which direction is America going to move in? Are we going to go in the wrong direction, as George Bush has led us, or in the right direction? And I think, as we get to deal with the issues that are important, the American people are going to want to go in the right direction, because they understand that George Bush is leading us in the wrong direction, wrong with jobs, wrong with health care, wrong with Iraq.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, I'm not sure they do understand that. According to a new "TIME" magazine poll and despite the propaganda that just emerged from your lips, it turns out that 52 percent of Americans when asked said they prefer President Bush. But the significant number is this. Only 41 percent said they preferred John Kerry. That's a huge spread, 11 points, and it's something we haven't seen for the past, say, six months. And it's kind of an ominous sign. You're terrified, aren't you?
MEEKS: No, look, we just finished the Republican Convention. You all had four days of masquerade party, where you masqueraded, you masquerade what your issues are, you told different things to the American people. That's going to come to an end now.
John Kerry gave the opening note at 12:00 a.m. last night. That is going to change. You got this bump. The bump will be over. The American people will hear the truth, as John Kerry moves forward.
CARLSON: And it will set them free, I imagine.
CARVILLE: Congressman Fossella, I'm just kind of curious. We've got to get to some reality here. Today, the job numbers were nothing short of pathetic, 144,000 jobs, which, if you had that every month, you would lose almost as many jobs as Bush has lost everywhere.
When do you think that this president will be able to get this country where it is actually creating more jobs and jobs are coming on? Is it possible that he could possibly do this?
FOSSELLA: I think, given the fact that the president inherited a recession and got through the largest tax cut to help rebuild our economy and put people back to work, he deserves a lot of credit.
(CROSSTALK)
FOSSELLA: And, secondly, I think the most important issue facing this country is our national security. And that's why I think you see the poll numbers move the way they do. They see two people. One is a strong, principled leader in President Bush, the one who is going to cut taxes on the American people and make this country the ownership society that belongs to people.
CARVILLE: So you don't really have an answer on jobs, so let's go to national security. And let me say, the president in June said we could win the war on terror. And then, in late August, he said we couldn't win the war on terror.
So while we were losing all these jobs, what happened to convince the president between June, when he said we could win the war on terror, and late August, when he said we couldn't? What was the intervening event there? It couldn't have been the jobs we're losing, because you want to go right to your turf, foreign policy.
FOSSELLA: The turf, again, is I think more people are working. And we need to give -- I think the president believes that we need to give employers the opportunity to hire more people and create more jobs. And he's doing that.
The answers are here in New York City and across this country. And the answer doesn't necessarily come out of Washington. In terms of foreign policy and on national security, the truth is clear. We are winning the war on terror. The president believes that to be true. And, fortunately, we have brave men and women who wear our nation's uniform in the Air Force, the Marines and the Army, who are across the board in Afghanistan and Iraq.
They're going to be the reasons why not only are we going to be safe, but millions will be free. And that's the message that the American people are hearing between now and November. And I believe that is why President Bush will be reelected.
CARLSON: Congressman, the poll that we just were talking about gets more interesting when you break it up.
What I was surprised by is that, of all the issues presented by pollsters to respondents, the economy was the No. 1 concern of most people asked. And George Bush won when you asked people who's a better steward of that economy. If Democrats can't win on that question, they have no chance in the fall. You know that.
MEEKS: Democrats are going to win on all the issues, because Democrats are moving in the right direction.
You just came from a month where you had this masquerade party. And what's going to come out clearly -- you don't have to take my word for it. But people are manufacturing John Kerry's record. In fact, you can just look at today's "Wall Street" -- I mean today's "Washington Post" talking about how his record is being distorted by the GOP. And these facts are going to soon come out.
I urge all of them out there to begin -- just pick it up on the Web site and look at the record of -- especially about defense and watch how similar that Dick Cheney, talking about the 1990s, different period of time, talking about downgrading some of our weapons systems, because we're going after the Soviet Union.
Look at it. The truth is going to come out. Now the time for this -- the four days that they had, those days are over. The truth will come out.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Hold on.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Hold on.
CARVILLE: Go ahead.
CARLSON: Given that most records haven't yet seen "The Washington Post," do you find -- it's sort of telling that even after week after week of Kerry calling Bush a coward because he didn't fight so bravely in Vietnam, et cetera, et cetera, that Kerry is still losing on national security and terrorism by 21 points. Why is that?
MEEKS: Wait a minute. You have got it wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
MEEKS: You have got a convention where they mentioned Kerry's name more than they mentioned Bush's name. Never once did I hear Osama bin Laden's name.
And we're fighting the war on terror, I think that's the person who has terrorized us, not -- not Iraq. We talk about an administration that said in the beginning that it would cost us $20 billion and that the American taxpayers wouldn't have to pay for it, that it would come from the oil reserves in Iraq.
Well, we're now above $200 billion, spending $1.5 billion a week, based upon the lies that we were told. We were told when we went into Iraq they were going to be waving the American flag. Well, we don't see that happening yet. So there seems to be -- it's a disaster. And when the president said
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Congressman, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we have got to go to -- OK.
When we come back, our guests face "Rapid Fire." And we'll ask what in the world got into John Kerry last night.
And just ahead, we'll get the latest on President Bill Clinton and Hurricane Frances. Wolf Blitzer reports right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York.
Coming up at the top of the hour, former President Bill Clinton faces heart surgery in New York City. We'll have details.
Hurricane Frances slams the Bahamas and bears down on Florida. We'll got there for the latest.
And a bloody end to the Russian school standoff. Hundreds are dead or wounded.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions a whole lot faster than the Bush economy is creating jobs.
We're talking to two of New York's finest congressmen, Democrat Gregory Meeks and Republican Vito Fossella.
Congressman Fossella, we have already wasted $200 billion in Iraq. The budget deficit is going to come in now and projected it may be around $500 billion. What is President Bush going to say in October?
FOSSELLA: I think he's saying what he said all along. The core of our fundamental values is freedom and opportunity to the American people. And I think we also have a responsibility to liberate others, while securing our national interests. And that's why the president has been willing to wage this war against terror. And when given the choice between raising taxes or reducing taxes, he's choosing reducing taxes by placing his faith in the American people. And I think you'll hear that time and time again.
CARLSON: Now, Congressman Meeks, you said nice words a moment ago about Senator Kerry's midnight speech last night, leading me to believe you must not have seen it, because it was completely disjointed. He ad-libbed it. A lot of his lines didn't make sense.
Shouldn't they give him a script to read before he goes on national television?
MEEKS: No, I think it was very clear.
And what was very clear is that he's not going to sit back and allow individuals to discredit him, when he knows that he's a hero.
CARLSON: He does think he's a hero.
(CROSSTALK)
MEEKS: And, Tucker, he is not going to allow Dick Cheney -- because I wonder where he was when it was time for him to be called -- he's not going to George Bush, he's not going to allow the swift boat guys or any of that to discredit him, when he knows what he did.
And he wants George Bush to come out. I want to know when Bush is going to agree to those three debates so they can stand up mano-a- mano next to one another?
CARVILLE: There are indications that -- there have traditionally been three presidential debates. There are indications that President Bush, who of course his whole life has been shirking from responsibility and confrontation, that he only wants two.
Do you think, as a Republican, isn't this is a sort of ninny-fied thing to have two debates, when the country has always seen three?
(BELL RINGING)
FOSSELLA: Oh, I don't know. I think the jury is still out on that. And I think, in terms of shirking responsibility, I think the president has been elected once. He will be reelected because he...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... going to refight that. We are out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Thank you both very much. We'll do that show again.
We'll have the latest on the direction and strength of Hurricane Frances right after the break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
We have just enough time left for an update on Hurricane Frances.
Let's go to meteorologist Jacqui Jeras at the CNN Weather Center -- Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Well, Tucker, the 5:00 advisory just in now.
And Hurricane Frances holding its own, staying steady as a category 3 hurricane, packing winds of 115 miles per hour. These outer bands already hitting the Florida coastline with some heavy rain showers and wind gusts up and down the east Florida coast between 25 and 35 miles per hour.
Here's your latest advisory and the latest forecast track. This is exactly the same as the forecast track from 11:00. So that puts higher confidence in the location of where we're expecting landfall here, somewhere along the east Florida coastline somewhere along in the center.
Here's what the bottom line is, what you can expect. For the rest of tonight, we are going to start to see the tropical storm force winds moving in. In the overnight hours, we can expect to see hurricane force winds arriving, landfall still a little bit uncertain, but the central Florida coast in high flooding threat, up to 20 inches of rain locally in the path -- Tucker, James, back to you.
CARVILLE: Here's wishing President Clinton back.
And the whole state of Florida, with the exception of Gainesville, good luck as you face the third hurricane you have had.
CARLSON: That's right on both counts.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: I hate to agree with you, but I do.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again next week back in Washington for yet more CROSSFIRE. Thanks for joining us in New York.
We'll see you then.
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