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CNN Crossfire
Will Democracy Succeed in Iraq?
Aired September 23, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE:
AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: First, we are succeeding in Iraq.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Iraq's leader delivers an optimistic message to the U.S. Congress. President Bush promises to stay the course.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America will stand with you until freedom and justice have prevailed. America's security and Iraq's future depend on it.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president says that things are getting better in Iraq and we must just stay the same course. Well, I disagree. They're not getting better and we need to change the course to protect our troops and to win.
ANNOUNCER: Will democracy succeed in Iraq? And what impact will the war have on American voters in November?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Iraqi interim leader Ayad Allawi vowed today to a joint meeting of Congress that elections for Iraq's National Assembly will held as scheduled this January. No matter what you think of it, this was a historic moment. Democrats of course almost completely ignored it because they were busy. After all, there are only so many hours in a day to attack George W. Bush.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: And so many things to attack him on. While the appointed leader of Iraq was speaking to Congress, the appointed leader of the United States, George W. Bush, was bragging that the people of war-torn Iraq were happier than the people of the United States. Mr. Bush's message is clear. Forget about the car bombings, the ambushes and the beheadings. All is well in Iraq. But more on that later.
First, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The Bush administration just can't keep its stories straight on Iraq. General John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. forces in the region, told lawmakers that we will definitely need more troops in Iraq to secure the country for elections. He couldn't have been more plain, saying -- quote -- "I think we will need more troops than we currently have" -- unquote.
But I thought the Bush administration said we didn't need more troops. Well, now General Abizaid says that we do. Not to worry, though, the good general says. Perhaps the new troops can come from other countries. Wait a minute. The Bushies say that there's no way other countries will send their troops. It's really their principal attack on John Kerry's plan to internationalize the force in Iraq.
You may agree with it or disagree with it, but at least Senator Kerry has actually laid out a plan for Iraq. It seems Mr. Bush only has a plan for his own election.
CARLSON: OK, see, here's my test, Paul, for this is the point at which you've lost emotional control over yourself, is when you start attacking your enemy for doing things you think are right.
So John Kerry has called for increasing the number of soldiers on the ground in Iraq, internationalizing the force. Now you have the Bush administration and the lead general in Iraq saying the same thing and you're attacking him for it.
BEGALA: No, I'm saying that they can't keep their story straight. They're not leveling with the American people.
CARLSON: No, this is the story. This is the story.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Which is it, that we're going to have foreign troops, we're not going to have foreign troops...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Actually, they've been trying to get foreign troops and haven't been able to get them. We've been trying, actually, for more than a year. It's not Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... he's a failure. CARLSON: That may be true. It's other countries don't want to send their troops to a country as dangerous as Iraq. Duh. Please.
Well, after two and a half years of savaging every single thing about George W. Bush, literally down to the clothes he wears, John Kerry has apparently run out of things to complain about. So he's started to make them up. Yesterday, Kerry attacked the president for planning to bring back the draft -- quote -- "I will not reinstate the draft," Kerry pledged. And for once, it was easy to take him at his word, because, as it turns out, no one other than Democrat Charlie Rangel has even proposed returning to the draft or even hinted at it.
The White House is officially against the idea. So, more importantly, is the Pentagon, which believes that volunteer soldiers are more effective than conscripts. So no matter who is elected this fall, Bush, Kerry, Lyndon LaRouche, you name it, America is not returning to the draft.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: On the other hand, muttering darkly about some diabolical draft conspiracy, probably including Halliburton, does scare the hell out of voters. And that, it goes without saying, is precisely John Kerry's only point.
BEGALA: Well, no. The point is, you're being really unfair to Senator Kerry. He was asked a question by a citizen at a town hall meeting.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Come on.
BEGALA: The citizen stood up and said, will you bring back the draft? Do you think that Bush will have to? And he said, I don't know about Bush. We might have to under Bush. I don't know. But I will tell you, I won't.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, he was implying...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He doesn't have the courage...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But we do have a draft under Bush. We have a back-door draft of the Ready Reserves.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know. I know. I've read the bumper sticker.
BEGALA: No. It's a fact. CARLSON: But the point is, Kerry doesn't have the courage to make an allegation. Instead, he implies
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He was asked a question and he answered the question.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But we do have a draft where Mr. Bush is keeping people in the military after their time is out. It's a back-door draft of people who ought to be able to live their lives.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: It's not a draft. They already joined, Paul. Come on.
BEGALA: Well, there are some good things in the tax bill being voted on in the Senate today, principally tax cuts for the middle class. But one provision of that bill shows the true heart of the Republican Party in the age of Bush, and it's not a pretty sight.
The bill takes away the child tax credit from 9.2 million of the very poorest children in America, while giving $13 billion in tax breaks to corporations. That's right. The rich get billions. The middle class gets a little something. It is, after all, an election year. But the poor, and I mean the poor, families making less than $10,750 a year, will actually lose some or all of their child tax credit. Sorry, you're out of the game, but thanks for playing.
The savagery, selfishness, really sinfulness of the Republicans hurting the most impoverished children in our country while helping huge corporations is just stunning. Friends, if this is compassionate conservatism, I guess Dick Cheney is Mr. Rogers.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: OK, well, the sinfulness, huh? Well, thank you, Father Begala, for your -- you're a holy man and I appreciate you spreading a little of your holiness to the rest of us mere mortals.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It is sinful.
CARLSON: And I must say, Paul, when you get done with this gig, maybe you can apply for a job in the propaganda bureau of the North Korean government...
(LAUGHTER) (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Because this is so stupid, that it's sinful. It's a tax bill, man. Lighten up. It's not sinful.
BEGALA: No, they are screwing the poorest children in America while giving money to corporations.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: Lighten up, Paul. Lighten up, man.
BEGALA: No.
CARLSON: You're going to have an aneurysm. Settle down, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That's the kind of stuff that gets you in hell.
CARLSON: You're making me worried. They're going to hell now? Going to hell now.
BEGALA: Yes, they are, for that stuff.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Ladies and gentlemen, the Republicans are going to hell, says Paul Begala.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Yes, they are. They can, as far as I'm concerned.
CARLSON: Woo! Buckle your salvation belts, baby. You're going to hell. OK.
BEGALA: Absolutely.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Excuse me.
News that CBS has appointed a two-man team to look into the debacle surrounding forged documents used for a "60 Minutes" report is not sitting well with Dan Rather. It's not so much the panel itself that bugs the anchorman. It's who was picked as one of its members. Rather, who pretended to report and then read the faulty report on President Bush's National Guard service, is angered that former Attorney General Dick Thornburgh was selected to look into the matter.
"The New York Times" today quotes associates as saying Rather is bent out of shape largely because Thornburgh served under -- buckle your seat belts -- two Republican presidents, Richard Nixon and President Bush's father. It apparently chafes Rather to have to promise to cooperate with him now.
Let's get this right. Dan Rather claims he's not a partisan Democrat. He's claimed that for years, despite the evidence. And yet he's angered that a man who once worked for a Republican may be investigating him. The two don't go together. They don't make sense. Dan Rather is a partisan Democrat. Why not just admit it?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I have no idea what his political leanings are.
CARLSON: Of course you do. Come on, Paul. Of course you do.
BEGALA: I praised -- I praised Dan Rather when he took responsibility and apologized. But he's wrong about this.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And you're right. Dick Thornburgh -- I ran the campaign against him for Harris Wofford and beat him. But he is a fair-minded person.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Is he going to hell, like other Republicans?
BEGALA: If you make a mistake like this...
CARLSON: Is he going to hell, though? You can tell me. Is he going to hell?
BEGALA: If he supports screwing little poor children, Tucker, you bet.
CARLSON: He's going to hell. He's going to hell. Holy smokes, Father Begala.
BEGALA: Yes.
CARLSON: Will you heal me after this show? Will you heal me after this show? Will you touch me and heal me, anoint me with oil?
BEGALA: You can mock it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I am mocking it.
BEGALA: But there's no moral justification for hurting those children.
CARLSON: As long as you anoint me with oil, Paul, I'm all better. Going to hell.
BEGALA: You know what? You can mock my religion if you want, Tucker. (CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I am. I'm mocking you're religion. If your religion is based on tax cuts, I'm mocking it. Going to hell, baby.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Jesus said suffer the children who come unto me, not suffer children, which seem to be the Republicans' point.
CARLSON: We're going to pass the plate later in the show.
BEGALA: Well, you've seen, of course, the bombings and heard about the beheadings. Presumably, President Bush has as well, and yet the former Andover cheerleader held another pep rally today, this time with the interim Iraqi leader. We'll debate who has the right approach on Iraq just ahead.
And the campaign turns rather corny on several farms across the Midwest. We'll show you the hilarity of that pun later on in this program. Stay with us.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The man charged with leading Iraq into a postwar democracy with the significant help of the United States says his country is succeeding. And regardless of whether you agree, there's no denying that the Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's message delivered to a joint meeting of Congress today is pretty historic. But is his message correct?
Joining us today in the CROSSFIRE to debate that from the House Gallery on Capitol Hill, Congressman Rahm Emanuel, a Democrat from Illinois, and Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher of California.
BEGALA: Gentlemen, good to see you both. Thank you for making time.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Congressman Rohrabacher, the latest "New York Times" poll said that 80 percent of the American people believe that the president is either hiding something about Iraq or outright lying. It seems to me the John Kerry campaign is capitalizing on that with a new ad. Let me play you some of it, listen to it, and ask you to respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: George Bush keeps telling us things are getting better in Iraq. The facts tell a different story. Terrorists are pouring into the country. Attacks on U.S. forces are increasing every month. One thousand American soldiers have died. We need a fresh start to fix the mess in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Congressman Rohrabacher, do you believe we need a fresh start to fix the mess in Iraq?
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: No. Here, you have defeatism and then you have somebody offering an alternative that doesn't tell you what the alternative is. That's typical.
BEGALA: Well, actually, no, in defense of the Kerry campaign, we cut out the last 10 seconds of the ad for time. They went on and said whatever it was that they think that John Kerry...
(CROSSTALK)
ROHRABACHER: Oh, yes, for 10 seconds, they gave them the Kerry plan for today of what he's going to do in Iraq.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, what -- what is the Bush plan?
ROHRABACHER: Well, listen, the Bush plan is very simple.
We are going to tough it out and we're going to win the situation, because you've got terrorists who are over there. And we'd rather fight them in Iraq than fight them in the United States. The American people understand this and the Iraqi people understand this. But American media just is focusing on, yes, there's a car bomb today. There's a -- somebody killed over here or somebody get their head cut off over here.
But overall in Iraq, the people of Iraq are coming in our direction. But it's going to take a lot of intestinal fortitude and commitment and leadership in order for us to win this and come out of it.
CARLSON: Congressman Emanuel, the other day John Kerry said something that was pretty clear. I could understand it. He said -- quote -- in invading Iraq, we -- quote -- "traded a dictator for chaos that has left America less secure."
Why doesn't he just come out and say we were safer with Saddam in power?
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: Well, first of all, let me just be clear about something and I want to respond here.
Doing -- not acknowledging that you have a problem means we're going to repeat the same policies in Iraq.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Not acknowledging that when I ask you a question is a problem. So I just asked you a pretty simple question.
EMANUEL: I'm going to get right to your question. I'm going to get right to your question.
But what the president has offered is repeating this -- you can't fix a problem if you don't think you have a problem. And this administration thinks things are going great in Iraq. And Senator Hagel and Senator McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham, all Republicans, acknowledge we have a real problem.
And on the question you asked...
CARLSON: I'll grant you we have got a problem.
EMANUEL: We've got a big problem.
CARLSON: But what about Kerry? Why doesn't Kerry just say, we're safer -- if we have such a problem -- and Kerry has made that point repeatedly and quite articulately -- why doesn't he say just we were safer with Saddam in power? Simple question.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: The answer is, it's like the CIA. Iraq has now become a haven for people coming in from Iran and Syria for terrorists that had not existed before. And we are creating a -- literally a ground zero for terrorists that did not exist before.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, with all due respect, you're not answering -- I understand.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, I agree with you. Please answer my question. I'm sorry to be so persistent. Do you believe that? Were we safer with Saddam?
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: No, I don't believe we were safer.
But I do believe he was contained and he was clearly debilitated. And the '98 embargo and bombing was more successful than all our intelligence had known. And they were a degraded country militarily, economically and socially. And that's become quite clear. BEGALA: Congressman Rohrabacher, our president today met with the press and talked about the situation in Iraq. He made a really strange boast. I'm just going to play you the tape of our president and ask you about it.
Here's President Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I saw a poll that said the right track/wrong track in Iraq was better than here in America. That's pretty darn strong. I mean, the people see a better future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: I guess what he was referring to is the fact -- and it is a fact -- that "The Wall Street Journal" poll for example -- or "New York Times," rather, poll that is out recently says 51 percent of the American people, the majority, think we're on the wrong track. Does he think it's good that people in Iraq, where they're torn by war, are happier than people in America, which is the country he allegedly leads?
ROHRABACHER: I think the people of Iraq know more about what the situation is than the people in America, who have to depend on the liberal media.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: No, sir. I'm talking about the situation in our own country.
ROHRABACHER: The liberal media and the Democrats who have been nitpicking this...
BEGALA: So...
ROHRABACHER: And the fact is people who are undergoing this great challenge in creating a democratic society, they know what the situation is.
And it's being -- and a false picture's being painted by the American media.
(CROSSTALK)
ROHRABACHER: So that's what the president had to say. We're lucky we have a president who has the commitment to tough it out and do what's necessary to win and protect the United States of America in the long run.
BEGALA: But, Congressman, the question was Americans' view of how their own country is going. I think Americans are experts on how their country's going. They believe our president is taking us in the wrong direction, the majority of them. The president laughs about that today and brags that things are better in Iraq? You don't think that that's -- I think it's odd. We'll put it that way.
ROHRABACHER: I think when the American people -- I think when the American people are given the facts, they make the right decision.
I have talked to many people who have just come back from Iraq who tell me that the media is presenting a false image of what's going on. We have a country there the size of Texas with 27 million people. They have one or two incidents a day. And yet 99 percent of the rest of the country is actually progressing. They're building up their infrastructure. They're doing better than ever.
BEGALA: That's the Republican message. Things are great.
(CROSSTALK)
ROHRABACHER: But the media focuses on these -- Paul, if you did the same thing with traffic in California, just focusing on the traffic accidents every day, you'd think that there was no traffic moving in California.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Now, Congressman Emanuel, I asked you a simple question a minute ago. Is Iraq safer with or without Saddam? Couldn't get a clear answer. Here's a suggestion for why the Kerry people can't answer even the most basic questions.
This is from Al Hunt's column today in "The Wall Street Journal," liberal column, smart guy, but liberal. He says -- quote -- "I think John Kerry's basic problem is he knows he cast two votes for political reasons, the first authorizing the president to go to war, the second against appropriating moneys for the misguided affair unless it was paid for. He's like to take them back."
That is the problem, isn't it? He started off on a phony note without be direct, without being honest to the American people about what he really believed, if anything. And it's gotten him bollixed up ever since. Isn't that true?
EMANUEL: Tucker, he gave the president the right to go to war and the president, in my view, did not use that right correctly. He gave him the right to go to war.
Second is, the president has a policy of doing the same. John Kerry has four points that are real that would correct what we haven't had from day one, A, more allies, two, reconstruction spent correctly and out, get the money -- we appropriated it a year ago. We haven't done it yet. Three, train an Iraqi police and army. We've only done 5,000 out of the 200,000 Iraqi troops.
And, fourth, secure the borders, because they've become porous with terrorists coming in from Syria. That is a plan.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: And what we've been offered by the president is, if you repeat the same policies, somehow you're going to get a different result.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, here's one thing. I understand.
EMANUEL: Nobody is arguing about the destination of the road. We're arguing about a way to get to that democracy.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Actually, but we're also arguing principle. And one of the principles that the president's been arguing in public, unchallenged by Senator Kerry, so I'm wondering what he thinks of this, is that liberating a people is worth spending American lives. It's worth going to war to free people to bring them democracy. It's a pretty simple premise. The president thinks it's true. Do you think it's true and does Senator Kerry think that's true?
EMANUEL: Well, do I think -- yes, because I've supported, like we did in the Balkans. But there's a right way, where America doesn't bear 90 percent of the treasures and 90 percent of the lives in doing it and brining in allies.
Nobody argues about whether we should get rid of Saddam Hussein. But all the problems we have today, of being bogged down in an endless occupation, losing over 1,000 lives of men and women, is because of the way we've done it and the mistakes we've made in doing it and the arrogance -- and the arrogance associated with it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Gentlemen, I'm sorry. We're going to come right back. We just have to pay for this whole enterprise with a commercial break. We will return.
Next, in "Rapid Fire," who is suggesting we ought to bring back the draft? John Kerry suggests someone is suggesting it. Suggestions abound. But who is it? We'll try to solve the mystery when we come back.
And why does a government report say changes need to be made in America's airline security system? Scary. Wolf Blitzer has that story right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Iraq's interim prime minister visits Capitol Hill. Was he giving Congress the straight story? We'll have a reality check from Baghdad.
A disturbing new report about airport security here in the United States. Undercover investigators say they were able to slip dangerous objects past security screeners.
And why was Sir Elton John so upset? We'll have the story behind his outburst in Taiwan.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Time now for "Rapid Fire," where Tucker and I pose questions even faster than President Bush can host another pep rally for his failed Iraq policy.
From Capitol Hill, our guests today are Democratic Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois and Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher from California.
CARLSON: Congressman Emanuel, John Kerry says that members of the Bush administration are considering bringing us back to a draft. Have you heard a single member of the administration suggest anything like that ever?
EMANUEL: No, but I've heard a number of generals talk about more troops. And there's no way we're going to keep the forces that we have in place without adding more troops to the armed forces.
There's been open discussion about adding 40,000 50,000, 60,000 to the armed forces. We are way behind. And we do have a hidden draft going on at this very moment with the National Guard and the Reserve. There is no doubt about it, given the rotation and given the length of stay.
CARLSON: Yes. I saw that bumper sticker, yes.
BEGALA: Congressman -- Congressman -- Congressman Rohrabacher...
ROHRABACHER: Yes.
BEGALA: The president today described the enemy in Iraq as -- quote -- "a handful of people." Central Command says at one point there was 5,000 insurgents. Now there's 20,000. That's an entire Army division, 20,000. The president thinks that's a handful. Is he misinformed or is he misleading us?
ROHRABACHER: Well, I would have to say that the president is talking about leadership when he talks about a handful of people. Obviously, there's more than that involved.
Let me just note that I don't know where my colleague has been, but Charlie Rangel, a leading Democrat, is proposing a bill to bring back the draft. And some leading Democrats have talked about bringing back the draft. Our president knows that our troops are volunteers and that's the way we should do it.
BEGALA: He never was for the draft. He wasn't for the draft...
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Congressman Emanuel, a pretty simple question John Kerry has refused to answer so far. Should we kill Muqtada al-Sadr?
EMANUEL: Say that again? I didn't hear you.
CARLSON: Should we kill Muqtada al-Sadr? Should we kill the leader of the insurgency in Iraq, Muqtada al-Sadr?
EMANUEL: What we should do is capture him and bring him to justice, like we should have done in Fallujah, rather than give him the path out, which is another example of our policies, like in Tora Bora, where we basically subcontract our military operations and they end up in disaster.
We've outsourced our national security sometimes, as we did in Tora Bora and we did in Fallujah. And we pay the price and American lives are lost because of it.
CARLSON: All right. Congressman Rahm Emanuel, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher of California, thanks very much for joining us. We appreciate it.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Thank you, guys.
EMANUEL: Thank you.
CARLSON: Well, a couple of farm owners with some free time are offering amazing tributes, remarkable tributes to the presidential candidates. Next, we'll show you a story you can really get lost in. It's filled with puns. That's our only hint.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Finally on CROSSFIRE, if you're among those who view the political process as an intricate maze, well, it is, literally, in Pleasant Grove, Utah.
Cornfield artists have noticed that the political here -- that this was a political year, so they created an eight-acre maze in the images of President Bush and Senator John Kerry. A 20-acre Wisconsin cornfield has been transformed into a giant caricature of the presidential candidates. There it is. It was carved out on a Lake Geneva farm whose annual cornfield maze usually has a Bears vs. Packers theme this time of year. Owners this year opted to show the candidates.
And that's an awful lot of plowing. I think I see caricatures in there.
CARLSON: That is the single coolest thing I've ever seen in my whole life.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Isn't that amazing?
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: That is just absolutely fantastic. I love that. I love our country. Only in America do people do stuff like that. They've got a lot of free time.
BEGALA: Is that right? They can't do it in Russia.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: They're not allowed to do that in China.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Can't do it in North Korea.
CARLSON: That's right.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, from the land of corn, I'm Tucker Carlson.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. Have a great night.
(APPLAUSE)
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Aired September 23, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE:
AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: First, we are succeeding in Iraq.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Iraq's leader delivers an optimistic message to the U.S. Congress. President Bush promises to stay the course.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America will stand with you until freedom and justice have prevailed. America's security and Iraq's future depend on it.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The president says that things are getting better in Iraq and we must just stay the same course. Well, I disagree. They're not getting better and we need to change the course to protect our troops and to win.
ANNOUNCER: Will democracy succeed in Iraq? And what impact will the war have on American voters in November?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.
(APPLAUSE)
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Iraqi interim leader Ayad Allawi vowed today to a joint meeting of Congress that elections for Iraq's National Assembly will held as scheduled this January. No matter what you think of it, this was a historic moment. Democrats of course almost completely ignored it because they were busy. After all, there are only so many hours in a day to attack George W. Bush.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: And so many things to attack him on. While the appointed leader of Iraq was speaking to Congress, the appointed leader of the United States, George W. Bush, was bragging that the people of war-torn Iraq were happier than the people of the United States. Mr. Bush's message is clear. Forget about the car bombings, the ambushes and the beheadings. All is well in Iraq. But more on that later.
First, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The Bush administration just can't keep its stories straight on Iraq. General John Abizaid, the commander of U.S. forces in the region, told lawmakers that we will definitely need more troops in Iraq to secure the country for elections. He couldn't have been more plain, saying -- quote -- "I think we will need more troops than we currently have" -- unquote.
But I thought the Bush administration said we didn't need more troops. Well, now General Abizaid says that we do. Not to worry, though, the good general says. Perhaps the new troops can come from other countries. Wait a minute. The Bushies say that there's no way other countries will send their troops. It's really their principal attack on John Kerry's plan to internationalize the force in Iraq.
You may agree with it or disagree with it, but at least Senator Kerry has actually laid out a plan for Iraq. It seems Mr. Bush only has a plan for his own election.
CARLSON: OK, see, here's my test, Paul, for this is the point at which you've lost emotional control over yourself, is when you start attacking your enemy for doing things you think are right.
So John Kerry has called for increasing the number of soldiers on the ground in Iraq, internationalizing the force. Now you have the Bush administration and the lead general in Iraq saying the same thing and you're attacking him for it.
BEGALA: No, I'm saying that they can't keep their story straight. They're not leveling with the American people.
CARLSON: No, this is the story. This is the story.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Which is it, that we're going to have foreign troops, we're not going to have foreign troops...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Actually, they've been trying to get foreign troops and haven't been able to get them. We've been trying, actually, for more than a year. It's not Bush.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... he's a failure. CARLSON: That may be true. It's other countries don't want to send their troops to a country as dangerous as Iraq. Duh. Please.
Well, after two and a half years of savaging every single thing about George W. Bush, literally down to the clothes he wears, John Kerry has apparently run out of things to complain about. So he's started to make them up. Yesterday, Kerry attacked the president for planning to bring back the draft -- quote -- "I will not reinstate the draft," Kerry pledged. And for once, it was easy to take him at his word, because, as it turns out, no one other than Democrat Charlie Rangel has even proposed returning to the draft or even hinted at it.
The White House is officially against the idea. So, more importantly, is the Pentagon, which believes that volunteer soldiers are more effective than conscripts. So no matter who is elected this fall, Bush, Kerry, Lyndon LaRouche, you name it, America is not returning to the draft.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: On the other hand, muttering darkly about some diabolical draft conspiracy, probably including Halliburton, does scare the hell out of voters. And that, it goes without saying, is precisely John Kerry's only point.
BEGALA: Well, no. The point is, you're being really unfair to Senator Kerry. He was asked a question by a citizen at a town hall meeting.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Come on.
BEGALA: The citizen stood up and said, will you bring back the draft? Do you think that Bush will have to? And he said, I don't know about Bush. We might have to under Bush. I don't know. But I will tell you, I won't.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: No, he was implying...
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: He doesn't have the courage...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But we do have a draft under Bush. We have a back-door draft of the Ready Reserves.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know. I know. I've read the bumper sticker.
BEGALA: No. It's a fact. CARLSON: But the point is, Kerry doesn't have the courage to make an allegation. Instead, he implies
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He was asked a question and he answered the question.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But we do have a draft where Mr. Bush is keeping people in the military after their time is out. It's a back-door draft of people who ought to be able to live their lives.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: It's not a draft. They already joined, Paul. Come on.
BEGALA: Well, there are some good things in the tax bill being voted on in the Senate today, principally tax cuts for the middle class. But one provision of that bill shows the true heart of the Republican Party in the age of Bush, and it's not a pretty sight.
The bill takes away the child tax credit from 9.2 million of the very poorest children in America, while giving $13 billion in tax breaks to corporations. That's right. The rich get billions. The middle class gets a little something. It is, after all, an election year. But the poor, and I mean the poor, families making less than $10,750 a year, will actually lose some or all of their child tax credit. Sorry, you're out of the game, but thanks for playing.
The savagery, selfishness, really sinfulness of the Republicans hurting the most impoverished children in our country while helping huge corporations is just stunning. Friends, if this is compassionate conservatism, I guess Dick Cheney is Mr. Rogers.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: OK, well, the sinfulness, huh? Well, thank you, Father Begala, for your -- you're a holy man and I appreciate you spreading a little of your holiness to the rest of us mere mortals.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: It is sinful.
CARLSON: And I must say, Paul, when you get done with this gig, maybe you can apply for a job in the propaganda bureau of the North Korean government...
(LAUGHTER) (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Because this is so stupid, that it's sinful. It's a tax bill, man. Lighten up. It's not sinful.
BEGALA: No, they are screwing the poorest children in America while giving money to corporations.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: Lighten up, Paul. Lighten up, man.
BEGALA: No.
CARLSON: You're going to have an aneurysm. Settle down, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That's the kind of stuff that gets you in hell.
CARLSON: You're making me worried. They're going to hell now? Going to hell now.
BEGALA: Yes, they are, for that stuff.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Ladies and gentlemen, the Republicans are going to hell, says Paul Begala.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Yes, they are. They can, as far as I'm concerned.
CARLSON: Woo! Buckle your salvation belts, baby. You're going to hell. OK.
BEGALA: Absolutely.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Excuse me.
News that CBS has appointed a two-man team to look into the debacle surrounding forged documents used for a "60 Minutes" report is not sitting well with Dan Rather. It's not so much the panel itself that bugs the anchorman. It's who was picked as one of its members. Rather, who pretended to report and then read the faulty report on President Bush's National Guard service, is angered that former Attorney General Dick Thornburgh was selected to look into the matter.
"The New York Times" today quotes associates as saying Rather is bent out of shape largely because Thornburgh served under -- buckle your seat belts -- two Republican presidents, Richard Nixon and President Bush's father. It apparently chafes Rather to have to promise to cooperate with him now.
Let's get this right. Dan Rather claims he's not a partisan Democrat. He's claimed that for years, despite the evidence. And yet he's angered that a man who once worked for a Republican may be investigating him. The two don't go together. They don't make sense. Dan Rather is a partisan Democrat. Why not just admit it?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I have no idea what his political leanings are.
CARLSON: Of course you do. Come on, Paul. Of course you do.
BEGALA: I praised -- I praised Dan Rather when he took responsibility and apologized. But he's wrong about this.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And you're right. Dick Thornburgh -- I ran the campaign against him for Harris Wofford and beat him. But he is a fair-minded person.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Is he going to hell, like other Republicans?
BEGALA: If you make a mistake like this...
CARLSON: Is he going to hell, though? You can tell me. Is he going to hell?
BEGALA: If he supports screwing little poor children, Tucker, you bet.
CARLSON: He's going to hell. He's going to hell. Holy smokes, Father Begala.
BEGALA: Yes.
CARLSON: Will you heal me after this show? Will you heal me after this show? Will you touch me and heal me, anoint me with oil?
BEGALA: You can mock it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I am mocking it.
BEGALA: But there's no moral justification for hurting those children.
CARLSON: As long as you anoint me with oil, Paul, I'm all better. Going to hell.
BEGALA: You know what? You can mock my religion if you want, Tucker. (CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I am. I'm mocking you're religion. If your religion is based on tax cuts, I'm mocking it. Going to hell, baby.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Jesus said suffer the children who come unto me, not suffer children, which seem to be the Republicans' point.
CARLSON: We're going to pass the plate later in the show.
BEGALA: Well, you've seen, of course, the bombings and heard about the beheadings. Presumably, President Bush has as well, and yet the former Andover cheerleader held another pep rally today, this time with the interim Iraqi leader. We'll debate who has the right approach on Iraq just ahead.
And the campaign turns rather corny on several farms across the Midwest. We'll show you the hilarity of that pun later on in this program. Stay with us.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The man charged with leading Iraq into a postwar democracy with the significant help of the United States says his country is succeeding. And regardless of whether you agree, there's no denying that the Iraqi interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi's message delivered to a joint meeting of Congress today is pretty historic. But is his message correct?
Joining us today in the CROSSFIRE to debate that from the House Gallery on Capitol Hill, Congressman Rahm Emanuel, a Democrat from Illinois, and Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher of California.
BEGALA: Gentlemen, good to see you both. Thank you for making time.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Congressman Rohrabacher, the latest "New York Times" poll said that 80 percent of the American people believe that the president is either hiding something about Iraq or outright lying. It seems to me the John Kerry campaign is capitalizing on that with a new ad. Let me play you some of it, listen to it, and ask you to respond.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)
NARRATOR: George Bush keeps telling us things are getting better in Iraq. The facts tell a different story. Terrorists are pouring into the country. Attacks on U.S. forces are increasing every month. One thousand American soldiers have died. We need a fresh start to fix the mess in Iraq.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Congressman Rohrabacher, do you believe we need a fresh start to fix the mess in Iraq?
REP. DANA ROHRABACHER (R), CALIFORNIA: No. Here, you have defeatism and then you have somebody offering an alternative that doesn't tell you what the alternative is. That's typical.
BEGALA: Well, actually, no, in defense of the Kerry campaign, we cut out the last 10 seconds of the ad for time. They went on and said whatever it was that they think that John Kerry...
(CROSSTALK)
ROHRABACHER: Oh, yes, for 10 seconds, they gave them the Kerry plan for today of what he's going to do in Iraq.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, what -- what is the Bush plan?
ROHRABACHER: Well, listen, the Bush plan is very simple.
We are going to tough it out and we're going to win the situation, because you've got terrorists who are over there. And we'd rather fight them in Iraq than fight them in the United States. The American people understand this and the Iraqi people understand this. But American media just is focusing on, yes, there's a car bomb today. There's a -- somebody killed over here or somebody get their head cut off over here.
But overall in Iraq, the people of Iraq are coming in our direction. But it's going to take a lot of intestinal fortitude and commitment and leadership in order for us to win this and come out of it.
CARLSON: Congressman Emanuel, the other day John Kerry said something that was pretty clear. I could understand it. He said -- quote -- in invading Iraq, we -- quote -- "traded a dictator for chaos that has left America less secure."
Why doesn't he just come out and say we were safer with Saddam in power?
REP. RAHM EMANUEL (D), ILLINOIS: Well, first of all, let me just be clear about something and I want to respond here.
Doing -- not acknowledging that you have a problem means we're going to repeat the same policies in Iraq.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Not acknowledging that when I ask you a question is a problem. So I just asked you a pretty simple question.
EMANUEL: I'm going to get right to your question. I'm going to get right to your question.
But what the president has offered is repeating this -- you can't fix a problem if you don't think you have a problem. And this administration thinks things are going great in Iraq. And Senator Hagel and Senator McCain and Senator Lindsey Graham, all Republicans, acknowledge we have a real problem.
And on the question you asked...
CARLSON: I'll grant you we have got a problem.
EMANUEL: We've got a big problem.
CARLSON: But what about Kerry? Why doesn't Kerry just say, we're safer -- if we have such a problem -- and Kerry has made that point repeatedly and quite articulately -- why doesn't he say just we were safer with Saddam in power? Simple question.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: The answer is, it's like the CIA. Iraq has now become a haven for people coming in from Iran and Syria for terrorists that had not existed before. And we are creating a -- literally a ground zero for terrorists that did not exist before.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, with all due respect, you're not answering -- I understand.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, I agree with you. Please answer my question. I'm sorry to be so persistent. Do you believe that? Were we safer with Saddam?
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: No, I don't believe we were safer.
But I do believe he was contained and he was clearly debilitated. And the '98 embargo and bombing was more successful than all our intelligence had known. And they were a degraded country militarily, economically and socially. And that's become quite clear. BEGALA: Congressman Rohrabacher, our president today met with the press and talked about the situation in Iraq. He made a really strange boast. I'm just going to play you the tape of our president and ask you about it.
Here's President Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I saw a poll that said the right track/wrong track in Iraq was better than here in America. That's pretty darn strong. I mean, the people see a better future.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: I guess what he was referring to is the fact -- and it is a fact -- that "The Wall Street Journal" poll for example -- or "New York Times," rather, poll that is out recently says 51 percent of the American people, the majority, think we're on the wrong track. Does he think it's good that people in Iraq, where they're torn by war, are happier than people in America, which is the country he allegedly leads?
ROHRABACHER: I think the people of Iraq know more about what the situation is than the people in America, who have to depend on the liberal media.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: No, sir. I'm talking about the situation in our own country.
ROHRABACHER: The liberal media and the Democrats who have been nitpicking this...
BEGALA: So...
ROHRABACHER: And the fact is people who are undergoing this great challenge in creating a democratic society, they know what the situation is.
And it's being -- and a false picture's being painted by the American media.
(CROSSTALK)
ROHRABACHER: So that's what the president had to say. We're lucky we have a president who has the commitment to tough it out and do what's necessary to win and protect the United States of America in the long run.
BEGALA: But, Congressman, the question was Americans' view of how their own country is going. I think Americans are experts on how their country's going. They believe our president is taking us in the wrong direction, the majority of them. The president laughs about that today and brags that things are better in Iraq? You don't think that that's -- I think it's odd. We'll put it that way.
ROHRABACHER: I think when the American people -- I think when the American people are given the facts, they make the right decision.
I have talked to many people who have just come back from Iraq who tell me that the media is presenting a false image of what's going on. We have a country there the size of Texas with 27 million people. They have one or two incidents a day. And yet 99 percent of the rest of the country is actually progressing. They're building up their infrastructure. They're doing better than ever.
BEGALA: That's the Republican message. Things are great.
(CROSSTALK)
ROHRABACHER: But the media focuses on these -- Paul, if you did the same thing with traffic in California, just focusing on the traffic accidents every day, you'd think that there was no traffic moving in California.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Now, Congressman Emanuel, I asked you a simple question a minute ago. Is Iraq safer with or without Saddam? Couldn't get a clear answer. Here's a suggestion for why the Kerry people can't answer even the most basic questions.
This is from Al Hunt's column today in "The Wall Street Journal," liberal column, smart guy, but liberal. He says -- quote -- "I think John Kerry's basic problem is he knows he cast two votes for political reasons, the first authorizing the president to go to war, the second against appropriating moneys for the misguided affair unless it was paid for. He's like to take them back."
That is the problem, isn't it? He started off on a phony note without be direct, without being honest to the American people about what he really believed, if anything. And it's gotten him bollixed up ever since. Isn't that true?
EMANUEL: Tucker, he gave the president the right to go to war and the president, in my view, did not use that right correctly. He gave him the right to go to war.
Second is, the president has a policy of doing the same. John Kerry has four points that are real that would correct what we haven't had from day one, A, more allies, two, reconstruction spent correctly and out, get the money -- we appropriated it a year ago. We haven't done it yet. Three, train an Iraqi police and army. We've only done 5,000 out of the 200,000 Iraqi troops.
And, fourth, secure the borders, because they've become porous with terrorists coming in from Syria. That is a plan.
(CROSSTALK)
EMANUEL: And what we've been offered by the president is, if you repeat the same policies, somehow you're going to get a different result.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Congressman, here's one thing. I understand.
EMANUEL: Nobody is arguing about the destination of the road. We're arguing about a way to get to that democracy.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Actually, but we're also arguing principle. And one of the principles that the president's been arguing in public, unchallenged by Senator Kerry, so I'm wondering what he thinks of this, is that liberating a people is worth spending American lives. It's worth going to war to free people to bring them democracy. It's a pretty simple premise. The president thinks it's true. Do you think it's true and does Senator Kerry think that's true?
EMANUEL: Well, do I think -- yes, because I've supported, like we did in the Balkans. But there's a right way, where America doesn't bear 90 percent of the treasures and 90 percent of the lives in doing it and brining in allies.
Nobody argues about whether we should get rid of Saddam Hussein. But all the problems we have today, of being bogged down in an endless occupation, losing over 1,000 lives of men and women, is because of the way we've done it and the mistakes we've made in doing it and the arrogance -- and the arrogance associated with it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Gentlemen, I'm sorry. We're going to come right back. We just have to pay for this whole enterprise with a commercial break. We will return.
Next, in "Rapid Fire," who is suggesting we ought to bring back the draft? John Kerry suggests someone is suggesting it. Suggestions abound. But who is it? We'll try to solve the mystery when we come back.
And why does a government report say changes need to be made in America's airline security system? Scary. Wolf Blitzer has that story right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Iraq's interim prime minister visits Capitol Hill. Was he giving Congress the straight story? We'll have a reality check from Baghdad.
A disturbing new report about airport security here in the United States. Undercover investigators say they were able to slip dangerous objects past security screeners.
And why was Sir Elton John so upset? We'll have the story behind his outburst in Taiwan.
Those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Time now for "Rapid Fire," where Tucker and I pose questions even faster than President Bush can host another pep rally for his failed Iraq policy.
From Capitol Hill, our guests today are Democratic Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois and Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher from California.
CARLSON: Congressman Emanuel, John Kerry says that members of the Bush administration are considering bringing us back to a draft. Have you heard a single member of the administration suggest anything like that ever?
EMANUEL: No, but I've heard a number of generals talk about more troops. And there's no way we're going to keep the forces that we have in place without adding more troops to the armed forces.
There's been open discussion about adding 40,000 50,000, 60,000 to the armed forces. We are way behind. And we do have a hidden draft going on at this very moment with the National Guard and the Reserve. There is no doubt about it, given the rotation and given the length of stay.
CARLSON: Yes. I saw that bumper sticker, yes.
BEGALA: Congressman -- Congressman -- Congressman Rohrabacher...
ROHRABACHER: Yes.
BEGALA: The president today described the enemy in Iraq as -- quote -- "a handful of people." Central Command says at one point there was 5,000 insurgents. Now there's 20,000. That's an entire Army division, 20,000. The president thinks that's a handful. Is he misinformed or is he misleading us?
ROHRABACHER: Well, I would have to say that the president is talking about leadership when he talks about a handful of people. Obviously, there's more than that involved.
Let me just note that I don't know where my colleague has been, but Charlie Rangel, a leading Democrat, is proposing a bill to bring back the draft. And some leading Democrats have talked about bringing back the draft. Our president knows that our troops are volunteers and that's the way we should do it.
BEGALA: He never was for the draft. He wasn't for the draft...
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Congressman Emanuel, a pretty simple question John Kerry has refused to answer so far. Should we kill Muqtada al-Sadr?
EMANUEL: Say that again? I didn't hear you.
CARLSON: Should we kill Muqtada al-Sadr? Should we kill the leader of the insurgency in Iraq, Muqtada al-Sadr?
EMANUEL: What we should do is capture him and bring him to justice, like we should have done in Fallujah, rather than give him the path out, which is another example of our policies, like in Tora Bora, where we basically subcontract our military operations and they end up in disaster.
We've outsourced our national security sometimes, as we did in Tora Bora and we did in Fallujah. And we pay the price and American lives are lost because of it.
CARLSON: All right. Congressman Rahm Emanuel, Congressman Dana Rohrabacher of California, thanks very much for joining us. We appreciate it.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Thank you, guys.
EMANUEL: Thank you.
CARLSON: Well, a couple of farm owners with some free time are offering amazing tributes, remarkable tributes to the presidential candidates. Next, we'll show you a story you can really get lost in. It's filled with puns. That's our only hint.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Finally on CROSSFIRE, if you're among those who view the political process as an intricate maze, well, it is, literally, in Pleasant Grove, Utah.
Cornfield artists have noticed that the political here -- that this was a political year, so they created an eight-acre maze in the images of President Bush and Senator John Kerry. A 20-acre Wisconsin cornfield has been transformed into a giant caricature of the presidential candidates. There it is. It was carved out on a Lake Geneva farm whose annual cornfield maze usually has a Bears vs. Packers theme this time of year. Owners this year opted to show the candidates.
And that's an awful lot of plowing. I think I see caricatures in there.
CARLSON: That is the single coolest thing I've ever seen in my whole life.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Isn't that amazing?
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: That is just absolutely fantastic. I love that. I love our country. Only in America do people do stuff like that. They've got a lot of free time.
BEGALA: Is that right? They can't do it in Russia.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: They're not allowed to do that in China.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Can't do it in North Korea.
CARLSON: That's right.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, from the land of corn, I'm Tucker Carlson.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE. Have a great night.
(APPLAUSE)
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