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CNN Crossfire
Final Presidential Push Begins
Aired October 14, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE:
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Being lectured by the president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like Tony Soprano talking to me about law and order in this country.
(LAUGHTER)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, there's a mainstream in American politics and you sit right on the far left bank.
ANNOUNCER: The duel in the desert is over. Now the candidates have hit the campaign trail. With the last debate behind them and 19 days to go before the election, the big push is on. What can we expect from President Bush and Senator Kerry in the final stretch?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, sitting in on the left, Donna Brazile, and Tucker Carlson.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE. Paul Begala is caught in mid-flight today, returning from the debate site in Phoenix, Arizona. James Carville was last sighted at Barbra Streisand's alpaca farm in Sun Valley. We don't know what to make of that.
And so, joining me in his chair is the brilliant and capable Donna Brazile, Democratic strategist and former Gore campaign manager.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, you can put a check mark next to finish debates on John Kerry and George W. Bush's things-to-do list. Now that the presidential incumbent and the challenger have duked it out over the issues for the last time, the final weeks of the campaign can kick into high-gear. How did they do last night? What is next? Who is up? Who is down? That will be our debate.
But, first, the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
At the vice presidential debate last week, Senator John Edwards went out of his way to inform America that Dick Cheney's daughter is gay. "How is your gay daughter?" Edwards essentially said. It was a cringe-making moment. Did Edwards mean to say it? It turns out he did mean to say it, because last night John Kerry said almost precisely the same thing, referring to -- quote -- "Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian," just in case you missed it the first time.
The Kerry campaign wants you to know about the sexual preference of one of the vice president's children, apparently in hopes some voters will be so turned off they'll vote for John Kerry. As Kerry's campaign manager later said on television in public, Dick Cheney's daughter is -- quote -- "fair game."
It goes without saying that this is disgusting. It is unseemly. It is probably counterproductive. It is fine to attack a candidate. It's wrong to drag his kids into it, as if we even need to be reminded. And most Democrats know that. Too bad John Kerry and John Edwards don't.
Why don't you tell them?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DONNA BRAZILE, GUEST HOST: Well, first of all, let me just say this, that John Kerry, when it comes to standing up for gay Americans, gay and lesbian rights in this country, John Kerry and John Edwards have been public servants.
CARLSON: I'm not even arguing with that. Then why would he go out of his, both of them go out of their way to tell America that Dick Cheney's daughter is gay, as if it's their business? Why do they do that?
BRAZILE: Well, because they're not ashamed of it. The Cheneys are not ashamed of it.
CARLSON: It's not their daughter. It's not their daughter.
(BELL RINGING)
BRAZILE: What they were pointing out was a fact, that she's gay. She's proud of it. She has a partner. Her parents of proud of it. And you know what? They believe that every American who is gay or lesbian should be proud of it as well.
CARLSON: Well, I believe it's nobody's business. How does that sound?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: And they ought to believe that, too.
BRAZILE: An interest name came up in last night's debate on domestic issues, Osama bin Laden. Remember him? Senator Kerry accused of President Bush of saying he didn't think of bin Laden very often. Here was the president's reply.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAZILE: Well, the trouble is, Mr. President, you did. Why would President Bush mislead us about Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the worst terrorist attack in American history? Perhaps because he has to, let's say, try to divert us once again and American resources, of course. Instead of burning in hell, Osama bin Laden is probably making more videos right now than Britney Spears.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Yes, but they're not as good.
No, I mean, look, I don't think it is fair. But more to the point, I don't think it is politically effective to blame the president for Osama bin Laden's continued existence as a free man.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: But it's Osama been forgotten.
CARLSON: I don't think
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: At the Republican Convention, the president did not mention his name one time, one time.
CARLSON: And that does rhyme. That absolutely rhymes. And I give you credit for the rhyming.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: However, however, I don't think people most people believe that Bush isn't trying his hardest to get Osama bin Laden. There are thousands of U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan searching for the guy.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: And they all want to catch him. They haven't yet. They will.
BRAZILE: Well, we'll see. (APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, there is no charge, of course, in American life more painful and more explosive than that of racism, which explains why Democrats have long made an election-year practice of hurling that very charge.
Don't believe it? Well, consider the Kerry campaign's Election Day instruction manual given to staffer and volunteers in the state of Colorado. At one point, the guide instructs Kerry operators to accuse Republicans of trying to prevent minority groups from voting even if there's no evidence that the charge is actually true, no evidence at all. Just make it up. The Kerry people call this -- quote -- "a preemptive strike." They suggest enlisting local civil rights leaders who can be called upon to accuse Republicans of racism. Another suggestion -- this is a quote -- "Place stories in which minority leadership expresses concern about the threat of intimidation tactics" -- end quote -- and so on.
In other words, manufacturer a crime and divisive racially propaganda, all of it false, to whip minority voters into a frenzy of fear and hatred. The idea is, that will get them to vote Democratic, this, keep in mind, from the party of idealism and high values. That's disgusting, actually.
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Well, let me just say this. You know, ever since Florida, the motto of the party is never again, never again we will allow citizens to go out and try to vote and be stopped by some Republican
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So you make up crimes?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So it's OK to make it up?
BRAZILE: We're not making up the fact that Republicans are destroying Democratic voter registrations in Las Vegas. We're not making up Oregon.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: If no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged, launch a preemptive strike.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Don't worry. The Republicans will do anything to stop people from voting, especially minorities.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Last night, President Bush was asked what Americans are going to do about critical shortage of the flu vaccine. Here is what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're working with Canada to hopefully -- that they'll produce a -- help us realize the vaccine necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations during this upcoming season.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAZILE: Canada? Are we importing drugs from Canada?
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: In the last debate and for four years, President Bush has darkly hinted that drugs from Canada were dangerous, tainted, unhealthy. But now his answer for his own administration's incompetence is to import drugs from Canada.
If we can import flu vaccine from Canada, why can't we import Viagra, Levitra and other medications that so many Republicans across the country are so proud to promote and use?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know, there you go again, Donna Brazile.
BRAZILE: Hey.
CARLSON: Why is it -- tell me this.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Bob Dole.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why are the Democrats always beating up on Viagra, which is a wonder drug, which, honestly, has done more than anything else to save rhino populations across Africa? Truly, because they're no longer killed for their horns. Viagra has changed more lives than any drug this century.
BRAZILE: You know more about Viagra than I want to know.
CARLSON: I don't much. I'm telling you, why is it that you all are anti-Viagra?
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Because we believe that citizens should have the right to have drugs imported from countries if they can get them for less price.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But not Viagra, because that's too mean and phallic.
BRAZILE: Well, give me some birth control and you can have your Viagra.
CARLSON: Oh, come on.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, the debates are over. The campaign hits the homestretch. What can George W. Bush and John Kerry do in these final weeks to seal a victory? We'll debate the debate and what happens next.
And did any of last night's debate comments make you so mad you wanted so slap one of the people on stage? I'm sure they did because you're watching this show. Later, we'll show you how to take out your political aggression without actually hurting anyone.
We'll be right back.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
As we mentioned, the campaign season to-do list is getting shorter every day. President Bush and his Democratic rival, John Kerry, wasted no time after wrapping up last night's final debate in the race to the White House. Both got right back on the plane, probably continue in high gear from here until November 2.
Did the debates pay off? Who won? With less than three weeks to go before the election, is it going to get ugly, as if it has not already?
Joining us in the CROSSFIRE, senior adviser to the John Kerry campaign, Tad Devine and also former Republican Congressman Bill McCollum of Florida.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Tad Devine, last night, as we were just talking before you came out, John Kerry, just in case you missed it the first time when John Edwards talked about it, but said essentially to America, by the way, Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.
A, what is the purpose of talking about the sexuality of other people's children on television during a presidential debate? And, B, this is what it seems to be, and that's just an obvious and vulgar and ugly pander to people who like lesbians, isn't it?
TAD DEVINE, SENIOR JOHN KERRY CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, that's not true at all, Tucker.
CARLSON: Of course it is.
DEVINE: Listen, he was answering a question very directly, a question that the president didn't answer.
CARLSON: Is Dick Cheney's daughter a lesbian?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: No, he was making a point, positive statement, as a matter of fact. And, unfortunately, it was received in a negative way.
Listen, it was almost the same thing that John Edwards said in the debate and Dick Cheney thanked him for it when he said it, OK?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: We understand when you have a record like the president does, which is indefensible, you are going to have to try to find ways to start controversies on everything. And that's what going on here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, here's what Mary Beth Cahill, the campaign manager...
DEVINE: Sure.
CARLSON: ... unfortunately, of your campaign, said about that.
Quote -- she said that Dick Cheney's daughter is -- quote -- "fair game." So does this mean that the children of candidates, Republican candidates, are fair game? If there's another candidate whose child is, I don't know, involved in an adulterous affair, you're going to talk about it on television?
DEVINE: Well, first, we're very fortunate that Mary Beth has been the campaign manager. Let me say that. I've been there and she's done a remarkable job.
CARLSON: She said this guy's kid is fair game.
DEVINE: Remarkable job.
And, second, we're talking about an adult child, OK, whose parents have spoken publicly of her sexual orientation. Listen, this is an issue -- I can understand why they're blowing it up. They don't want to talk about four years of failure, which is the Bush administration. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: You know, Congressman, the Republicans seemed so exercised last night, as Tucker is today, about Senator Kerry's remarks.
But let me ask you a question. And I'm glad to see you exercised about something other than his service in Vietnam. But will the Republicans now call upon some of its supporters to stop using inflammatory language against gays and lesbians and just -- and to stop these divisive drives on same-sex marriages across the country?
BILL MCCOLLUM, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Well, first of all, I think the bottom line is, the president and I and most Republicans support the amendment to the Constitution that will define marriage as between a man and a woman. That's all we've been talking about.
I know that Senator Kerry doesn't support that amendment, though he says he supports the definition of marriage between a man and a woman. I think the important thing, though, Donna, about last night's debate wasn't this issue. I think the important thing was that the president on key issues like education and immigration and Social Security actually articulated policies that were substantial. He told the people about his record, which is outstanding. And John Kerry really didn't have a good response to any of those.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Well, I can't wait to ask you a question about that, because there's no -- last night, the president seemed to have one answer for pretty much one size fits all. In response to a question on the minimum wage, let's see how he responded to that. That was a very important question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Listen, the No Child Left Behind Act is really a jobs act when you think about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAZILE: Can you imagine that? That was a response to several questions, No Child Left Behind.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Let's talk about outsourcing. No Child Left Behind. So where is the substance? Where is the beef?
MCCOLLUM: You know, John Kerry was doing the same thing in questions he preferred not to answer.
The fact of the matter is the that the president said he supported a minimum wage increase. The reality is that he didn't have a lot to say about it, because we don't have one and probably because most Republicans like me don't think it's a good idea.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Well, he said he would supported Mr. McConnell's minimum wage bill, which would have allowed states to opt out of raising the minimum wage if the Congress would have acted.
MCCOLLUM: Well, the reality on minimum wage is, from my standpoint, at least -- and I can't speak for the president on this -- is that when you raise the minimum wage, you have a lot of young people who lose job opportunities. And not only that, but you drive up the wages for everybody across the board. And the proposed minimum wage increases by John Kerry are just a traditional Democrat thing to do.
BRAZILE: To $7 an hour.
MCCOLLUM: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Do you know how much it costs for a Happy Meal now with big fries? It's $4.99. Minimum wage, $5.15.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: But almost nobody is getting...
BRAZILE: They cannot afford it, gallon of milk, $2.99, gallon of gas...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: I come from the state of Florida, where the service sector is where most of the minimum wage is. And I'll tell you, they are all getting paid more than the minimum wage right now. Almost nobody is getting the minimum wage.
BRAZILE: That is good. That is good.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Now, Tad Devine, that's also something to talk about.
But since you are an actual representative of the campaign, I can't resist asking you about it. There's floating around the Internet what appears to be a page from an Election Day manual put out by the DNC for Colorado Democrats, volunteers and staffers for the Kerry campaign that says, basically, you should invent instances for voters...
DEVINE: Basically it says that?
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: If no signs of intimidation techniques -- if no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged yet, launch a preemptive strike. Accuse Republicans of preventing black and Hispanic voters from getting to the polls.
DEVINE: That's what it says? It says that?
CARLSON: Yes, that is exactly what it says. I'll read it right there. Issue a press release accusing them of this. Review the Republican tactics used in the past. Quote a party or minority or civil rights leader as denouncing the tactic.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: This is encouraging your staffers to make up, in a racially divisive way, things that never happened and use those nonexistent events to whip minority voters into a frenzy. This is wrong.
DEVINE: Tucker, what happened in 2000 will never happen again. We're going to fight for every vote across this country.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DEVINE: We're going to make sure that people vote. We're going to make sure particularly people of color are not turned away from voting places.
And you know what? If we have to fight them in every precinct, fight them in every corner, we will.
CARLSON: My friend, come back to reality.
DEVINE: That's what is going to happen.
CARLSON: We're not refighting 2000 here.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: No, let me tell you something. It's not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know. Never again. I know.
DEVINE: Yes, you better believe it.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: But I'm asking you about something very specific.
DEVINE: Right.
CARLSON: And that is the allegation, assuming this is true, and you seem to concede that it is. DEVINE: Well, I don't know if it is true. I haven't seen it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Assuming that it is, that the Democratic National Committee is encouraging its own staffers to make things up and thereby scare people into believing the Republicans are racist, you don't -- you can't say this is wrong? Come on.
DEVINE: Tucker, we don't have to make it up, OK? It is happening all across the country.
CARLSON: Then why are they encouraging them to make it up?
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: We're filing federal cases in Ohio, OK? This has been going on. There's a pattern and practice of this going on. And I'll tell you what. It's not going to happen again.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: And this is the Republicans' worst nightmare, the worst nightmare of the Republicans. Everybody in this country is going to actually vote in this election, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: And we're going to win it fair and square.
DEVINE: Yes, good luck.
BRAZILE: Well, by the way, we won in Ohio today. And hopefully one day racism will not be here.
Congressman, last night, the president said that John Kerry voted for higher taxes 350 times. Of course, I did my own research, being a former congressional staffer. According to "Congressional Quarterly," a very nonpartisan source, the truth is that Kerry has gone on the legislatively record over 640 times for lower taxes and he voted of course to balance the budget.
Now, can you find another label other than liberal to pin on this donkey?
(LAUGHTER)
MCCOLLUM: Well, let me tell you, "The National Journal," Donna, "The National Journal" says that he's the most liberal senator in the United States Senate today out of all 100. They have a scale. And they're not conservative. They're not liberal.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Did you look at the issues?
MCCOLLUM: Well, I look at the issues, too, and listen to what he has to say.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: ... the federal government, when he talks about what he is going to do with regard to Medicare and Social Security. You know, last night he didn't answer the Social Security question. He really ducked that.
That's one of the nation's largest, most intractable problems outside of Medicare, and he let the president say what he did, which is that I'm going to fix the problem this way. But all he did was say, I'm going to take this tax cut
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Fix the problem
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: ... adding $2 trillion more of Social Security debt to a debt that is already growing?
MCCOLLUM: What Kerry said was, I'm going to take the money I'm going to save by repealing the tax on the wealthy and then it isn't going to be a problem anymore.
Well, how many times and how many places otherwise in this campaign has he said he's going to take that same money and spend it somewhere else?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: For the third time in three years, the Bush administration has piled up so much debt that Secretary Snow today asked once again for a new ceiling for the debt limit. Now, again, you keep blaming John Kerry and the Democrats of being liberal, but you guys have been in control of the spending over the last three years.
(APPLAUSE)
MCCOLLUM: Well, there's no question the debt is greater than we would like for it to be. But, if you follow John Kerry, it is going to be a lot worse. The debt is as great as it is largely because of the war on terror right now and the expenditure we've had to deal over that.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
DEVINE: ... because of the president's tax cuts.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tad Devine, last night
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: We wouldn't have an economic recovery if it weren't for those tax cuts.
CARLSON: Senator Kerry, though he eschews the word, essentially came out for amnesty for illegal aliens. He said, if you've been living in this country for a long time illegally, we'll just redefine your status and make you a citizen. We're going to reward you for being here illegally. I suspect -- in fact, I know, from looking at polls, the average person think that's insane. Did he mean that?
DEVINE: Well, what the average person thinks is insane is the illegal immigrants who are flooding into this nation while George Bush has stood and done nothing for four years, OK, 4,000 a day coming across the border.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So just call them legal and call it a day?
DEVINE: This president has turned his back on this problem, unfortunately.
CARLSON: Oh.
DEVINE: And, by the way, Tucker, it is a threat to our economy and it's a threat to our security as well.
CARLSON: Well, I agree with you on that.
DEVINE: The president has done nothing, absolutely nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: We're going to have to take a quick commercial break.
I'm sorry. I'm being told we must go. We have to pay for the whole enterprise. We'll be right back.
Next in "Rapid Fire," we'll ask our guests what did John Kerry do before he ran for president? He doesn't want to talk about it.
And we have a report of a new U.S. offensive in Fallujah. We'll go live to the Pentagon for an update after the break.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon with this breaking news.
A combined force of U.S. and Iraqi troops has launched a ground offensive into the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah tonight, the beginning of an operation that is aimed at wresting control of the city from anti-U.S. and Iraq forces in advance of Iraq's elections. The offensive was proceed by a stepped-up series of airstrikes that targeted safe houses that were believed to belong to the network of Abu Musab Zarqawi, as well as weapons storage areas.
A short time ago, I spoke to Marine 1st Lieutenant Lyle Gilbert, who is one of the commanders of the units spearheading the offensive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
1ST LT. LYLE GILBERT, 1ST MARINE EXPEDITIONARY UNIT: The troops crossed the line of departure. We had artillery fire, prep fire going out. Aircraft have been moving through the area all day, helicopters providing transport. It's been a pretty uncomfortable time. We have two battalions out there in maneuver right now dealing with the anti- Iraqi forces and achieving the mission of restoring security and stability to this area.
A few minutes ago, we had a significant amount of outgoing artillery. You can still hear the planes roaring overhead, helicopters coming and going. Once in a while there's the occasional burst. Behind my -- just behind me is actually the city of Fallujah. You can't see it right now because of the conditions, but just a little while ago, you could see the lights of the city.
So there is definitely an effort under way on the anti-Iraqi forces, as I said earlier. It is going to be a long night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: At this early stage of the operation, U.S. military officials are not disclosing the size and scope of the operation. We'll have more from the scene and from Lieutenant Gilbert coming up at 5:00.
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back. Time now for "Rapid Fire," where we fire off questions quicker than we can switch co-hosts. And that's pretty quick.
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: Our guests today, Kerry campaign senior adviser Tad Devine, also former Representative Bill McCollum, Republican from Florida.
BRAZILE: Congressman, you just heard that report from Fallujah. It's clear that the situation is worse. Now, what is President Bush's plan to control the situation and to bring some stability before the elections?
MCCOLLUM: Well, first of all, we had a very successful election Saturday in Afghanistan. It is a remarkable result to see those millions of people voting. I believe exactly the same thing is going to happen in January in Iraq.
The people of Iraq overwhelming want opportunity. You only have a fairly small minority of them who are interested in disrupting all of this. Now, they are really bad people. And I think right now we're on track with this new provisional government to do this. And I think what we're doing today in Fallujah has probably been long overdue.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Now, Tad, I don't even want to ask you, I guess because it makes me so uncomfortable. But it's so completely over the top, I don't think I have a choice. Elizabeth Edwards told ABC Radio she believes Lynne Cheney is ashamed of her own daughter and her sexuality. Can we just agree to knock this off?
DEVINE: That's what she said?
CARLSON: Yes. She said: "I think it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences. It makes me really sad that that is Lynne's response."
What a horrible thing to say.
DEVINE: It wasn't horrible at all.
CARLSON: Can you tell your campaign to knock it off and stop
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... in other people's kids, please?
(APPLAUSE)
DEVINE: Absolutely not. I think her response was honest and candid.
(BELL RINGING)
DEVINE: Elizabeth Edwards is a tremendous asset to this campaign. And she is some who tells the truth. And she spoke the truth as she knows it.
CARLSON: What a mean thing to say.
DEVINE: And I welcome her comments. I love hearing her comments.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: All right, Tad Devine, Bill McCollum, thank you both very much.
MCCOLLUM: My pleasure.
CARLSON: You're not mean, but that was mean.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: All right, does it seem like politics is becoming a contact sport? Next, we'll show you a way to lash out and nobody gets hurt.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
Well, regardless of who you support in the upcoming election, have you ever said to yourself at some point, I could just slap him? Of course you have. And now you can. Go to slapthecandidate.com and click on Bush or Kerry.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Don't like Bush's foreign policy? Well, you can drag the hand and let him have it. Think Kerry ought to keep his mouth shut about other people's children's sexual preferences? Well, drag the hand and give him the old cyber-wallop.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Third-party candidate Ralph Nader pops up and scores the slap. Bizarre? Yes. Violence-inspiring? Probably. Strictly speaking, a waste of time? No doubt about it, but also pretty satisfying. So try it if you have a minute.
BRAZILE: I'll stick to watching Jerry Springer.
CARLSON: Will you really?
BRAZILE: Absolutely. I don't feel like slapping you around today.
CARLSON: I don't feel like slapping you, Donna. I would never hit a woman.
BRAZILE: Thank you very much. And I would never slap a man that looked like you.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: From the left, I'm Donna Brazile. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again tomorrow, when we will be joined by Jon Stewart, host of "The Daily Show."
See you then.
(APPLAUSE)
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Aired October 14, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE:
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Being lectured by the president on fiscal responsibility is a little bit like Tony Soprano talking to me about law and order in this country.
(LAUGHTER)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, there's a mainstream in American politics and you sit right on the far left bank.
ANNOUNCER: The duel in the desert is over. Now the candidates have hit the campaign trail. With the last debate behind them and 19 days to go before the election, the big push is on. What can we expect from President Bush and Senator Kerry in the final stretch?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, sitting in on the left, Donna Brazile, and Tucker Carlson.
TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE. Paul Begala is caught in mid-flight today, returning from the debate site in Phoenix, Arizona. James Carville was last sighted at Barbra Streisand's alpaca farm in Sun Valley. We don't know what to make of that.
And so, joining me in his chair is the brilliant and capable Donna Brazile, Democratic strategist and former Gore campaign manager.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, you can put a check mark next to finish debates on John Kerry and George W. Bush's things-to-do list. Now that the presidential incumbent and the challenger have duked it out over the issues for the last time, the final weeks of the campaign can kick into high-gear. How did they do last night? What is next? Who is up? Who is down? That will be our debate.
But, first, the best political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
At the vice presidential debate last week, Senator John Edwards went out of his way to inform America that Dick Cheney's daughter is gay. "How is your gay daughter?" Edwards essentially said. It was a cringe-making moment. Did Edwards mean to say it? It turns out he did mean to say it, because last night John Kerry said almost precisely the same thing, referring to -- quote -- "Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian," just in case you missed it the first time.
The Kerry campaign wants you to know about the sexual preference of one of the vice president's children, apparently in hopes some voters will be so turned off they'll vote for John Kerry. As Kerry's campaign manager later said on television in public, Dick Cheney's daughter is -- quote -- "fair game."
It goes without saying that this is disgusting. It is unseemly. It is probably counterproductive. It is fine to attack a candidate. It's wrong to drag his kids into it, as if we even need to be reminded. And most Democrats know that. Too bad John Kerry and John Edwards don't.
Why don't you tell them?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DONNA BRAZILE, GUEST HOST: Well, first of all, let me just say this, that John Kerry, when it comes to standing up for gay Americans, gay and lesbian rights in this country, John Kerry and John Edwards have been public servants.
CARLSON: I'm not even arguing with that. Then why would he go out of his, both of them go out of their way to tell America that Dick Cheney's daughter is gay, as if it's their business? Why do they do that?
BRAZILE: Well, because they're not ashamed of it. The Cheneys are not ashamed of it.
CARLSON: It's not their daughter. It's not their daughter.
(BELL RINGING)
BRAZILE: What they were pointing out was a fact, that she's gay. She's proud of it. She has a partner. Her parents of proud of it. And you know what? They believe that every American who is gay or lesbian should be proud of it as well.
CARLSON: Well, I believe it's nobody's business. How does that sound?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: And they ought to believe that, too.
BRAZILE: An interest name came up in last night's debate on domestic issues, Osama bin Laden. Remember him? Senator Kerry accused of President Bush of saying he didn't think of bin Laden very often. Here was the president's reply.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Gosh, I just don't think I ever said I'm not worried about Osama bin Laden. It's kind of one of those exaggerations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAZILE: Well, the trouble is, Mr. President, you did. Why would President Bush mislead us about Osama bin Laden, the mastermind of the worst terrorist attack in American history? Perhaps because he has to, let's say, try to divert us once again and American resources, of course. Instead of burning in hell, Osama bin Laden is probably making more videos right now than Britney Spears.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Yes, but they're not as good.
No, I mean, look, I don't think it is fair. But more to the point, I don't think it is politically effective to blame the president for Osama bin Laden's continued existence as a free man.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: But it's Osama been forgotten.
CARLSON: I don't think
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: At the Republican Convention, the president did not mention his name one time, one time.
CARLSON: And that does rhyme. That absolutely rhymes. And I give you credit for the rhyming.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: However, however, I don't think people most people believe that Bush isn't trying his hardest to get Osama bin Laden. There are thousands of U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan searching for the guy.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: And they all want to catch him. They haven't yet. They will.
BRAZILE: Well, we'll see. (APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, there is no charge, of course, in American life more painful and more explosive than that of racism, which explains why Democrats have long made an election-year practice of hurling that very charge.
Don't believe it? Well, consider the Kerry campaign's Election Day instruction manual given to staffer and volunteers in the state of Colorado. At one point, the guide instructs Kerry operators to accuse Republicans of trying to prevent minority groups from voting even if there's no evidence that the charge is actually true, no evidence at all. Just make it up. The Kerry people call this -- quote -- "a preemptive strike." They suggest enlisting local civil rights leaders who can be called upon to accuse Republicans of racism. Another suggestion -- this is a quote -- "Place stories in which minority leadership expresses concern about the threat of intimidation tactics" -- end quote -- and so on.
In other words, manufacturer a crime and divisive racially propaganda, all of it false, to whip minority voters into a frenzy of fear and hatred. The idea is, that will get them to vote Democratic, this, keep in mind, from the party of idealism and high values. That's disgusting, actually.
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Well, let me just say this. You know, ever since Florida, the motto of the party is never again, never again we will allow citizens to go out and try to vote and be stopped by some Republican
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So you make up crimes?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So it's OK to make it up?
BRAZILE: We're not making up the fact that Republicans are destroying Democratic voter registrations in Las Vegas. We're not making up Oregon.
(BELL RINGING)
CARLSON: If no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged, launch a preemptive strike.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Don't worry. The Republicans will do anything to stop people from voting, especially minorities.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Last night, President Bush was asked what Americans are going to do about critical shortage of the flu vaccine. Here is what the president said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: We're working with Canada to hopefully -- that they'll produce a -- help us realize the vaccine necessary to make sure our citizens have got flu vaccinations during this upcoming season.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAZILE: Canada? Are we importing drugs from Canada?
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: In the last debate and for four years, President Bush has darkly hinted that drugs from Canada were dangerous, tainted, unhealthy. But now his answer for his own administration's incompetence is to import drugs from Canada.
If we can import flu vaccine from Canada, why can't we import Viagra, Levitra and other medications that so many Republicans across the country are so proud to promote and use?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: You know, there you go again, Donna Brazile.
BRAZILE: Hey.
CARLSON: Why is it -- tell me this.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Bob Dole.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Why are the Democrats always beating up on Viagra, which is a wonder drug, which, honestly, has done more than anything else to save rhino populations across Africa? Truly, because they're no longer killed for their horns. Viagra has changed more lives than any drug this century.
BRAZILE: You know more about Viagra than I want to know.
CARLSON: I don't much. I'm telling you, why is it that you all are anti-Viagra?
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Because we believe that citizens should have the right to have drugs imported from countries if they can get them for less price.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: But not Viagra, because that's too mean and phallic.
BRAZILE: Well, give me some birth control and you can have your Viagra.
CARLSON: Oh, come on.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Well, the debates are over. The campaign hits the homestretch. What can George W. Bush and John Kerry do in these final weeks to seal a victory? We'll debate the debate and what happens next.
And did any of last night's debate comments make you so mad you wanted so slap one of the people on stage? I'm sure they did because you're watching this show. Later, we'll show you how to take out your political aggression without actually hurting anyone.
We'll be right back.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
As we mentioned, the campaign season to-do list is getting shorter every day. President Bush and his Democratic rival, John Kerry, wasted no time after wrapping up last night's final debate in the race to the White House. Both got right back on the plane, probably continue in high gear from here until November 2.
Did the debates pay off? Who won? With less than three weeks to go before the election, is it going to get ugly, as if it has not already?
Joining us in the CROSSFIRE, senior adviser to the John Kerry campaign, Tad Devine and also former Republican Congressman Bill McCollum of Florida.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Tad Devine, last night, as we were just talking before you came out, John Kerry, just in case you missed it the first time when John Edwards talked about it, but said essentially to America, by the way, Dick Cheney's daughter is a lesbian.
A, what is the purpose of talking about the sexuality of other people's children on television during a presidential debate? And, B, this is what it seems to be, and that's just an obvious and vulgar and ugly pander to people who like lesbians, isn't it?
TAD DEVINE, SENIOR JOHN KERRY CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Well, that's not true at all, Tucker.
CARLSON: Of course it is.
DEVINE: Listen, he was answering a question very directly, a question that the president didn't answer.
CARLSON: Is Dick Cheney's daughter a lesbian?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: No, he was making a point, positive statement, as a matter of fact. And, unfortunately, it was received in a negative way.
Listen, it was almost the same thing that John Edwards said in the debate and Dick Cheney thanked him for it when he said it, OK?
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: We understand when you have a record like the president does, which is indefensible, you are going to have to try to find ways to start controversies on everything. And that's what going on here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Well, here's what Mary Beth Cahill, the campaign manager...
DEVINE: Sure.
CARLSON: ... unfortunately, of your campaign, said about that.
Quote -- she said that Dick Cheney's daughter is -- quote -- "fair game." So does this mean that the children of candidates, Republican candidates, are fair game? If there's another candidate whose child is, I don't know, involved in an adulterous affair, you're going to talk about it on television?
DEVINE: Well, first, we're very fortunate that Mary Beth has been the campaign manager. Let me say that. I've been there and she's done a remarkable job.
CARLSON: She said this guy's kid is fair game.
DEVINE: Remarkable job.
And, second, we're talking about an adult child, OK, whose parents have spoken publicly of her sexual orientation. Listen, this is an issue -- I can understand why they're blowing it up. They don't want to talk about four years of failure, which is the Bush administration. (CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: You know, Congressman, the Republicans seemed so exercised last night, as Tucker is today, about Senator Kerry's remarks.
But let me ask you a question. And I'm glad to see you exercised about something other than his service in Vietnam. But will the Republicans now call upon some of its supporters to stop using inflammatory language against gays and lesbians and just -- and to stop these divisive drives on same-sex marriages across the country?
BILL MCCOLLUM, FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Well, first of all, I think the bottom line is, the president and I and most Republicans support the amendment to the Constitution that will define marriage as between a man and a woman. That's all we've been talking about.
I know that Senator Kerry doesn't support that amendment, though he says he supports the definition of marriage between a man and a woman. I think the important thing, though, Donna, about last night's debate wasn't this issue. I think the important thing was that the president on key issues like education and immigration and Social Security actually articulated policies that were substantial. He told the people about his record, which is outstanding. And John Kerry really didn't have a good response to any of those.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Well, I can't wait to ask you a question about that, because there's no -- last night, the president seemed to have one answer for pretty much one size fits all. In response to a question on the minimum wage, let's see how he responded to that. That was a very important question.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Listen, the No Child Left Behind Act is really a jobs act when you think about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BRAZILE: Can you imagine that? That was a response to several questions, No Child Left Behind.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: Let's talk about outsourcing. No Child Left Behind. So where is the substance? Where is the beef?
MCCOLLUM: You know, John Kerry was doing the same thing in questions he preferred not to answer.
The fact of the matter is the that the president said he supported a minimum wage increase. The reality is that he didn't have a lot to say about it, because we don't have one and probably because most Republicans like me don't think it's a good idea.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Well, he said he would supported Mr. McConnell's minimum wage bill, which would have allowed states to opt out of raising the minimum wage if the Congress would have acted.
MCCOLLUM: Well, the reality on minimum wage is, from my standpoint, at least -- and I can't speak for the president on this -- is that when you raise the minimum wage, you have a lot of young people who lose job opportunities. And not only that, but you drive up the wages for everybody across the board. And the proposed minimum wage increases by John Kerry are just a traditional Democrat thing to do.
BRAZILE: To $7 an hour.
MCCOLLUM: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Do you know how much it costs for a Happy Meal now with big fries? It's $4.99. Minimum wage, $5.15.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: But almost nobody is getting...
BRAZILE: They cannot afford it, gallon of milk, $2.99, gallon of gas...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: I come from the state of Florida, where the service sector is where most of the minimum wage is. And I'll tell you, they are all getting paid more than the minimum wage right now. Almost nobody is getting the minimum wage.
BRAZILE: That is good. That is good.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Now, Tad Devine, that's also something to talk about.
But since you are an actual representative of the campaign, I can't resist asking you about it. There's floating around the Internet what appears to be a page from an Election Day manual put out by the DNC for Colorado Democrats, volunteers and staffers for the Kerry campaign that says, basically, you should invent instances for voters...
DEVINE: Basically it says that?
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: If no signs of intimidation techniques -- if no signs of intimidation techniques have emerged yet, launch a preemptive strike. Accuse Republicans of preventing black and Hispanic voters from getting to the polls.
DEVINE: That's what it says? It says that?
CARLSON: Yes, that is exactly what it says. I'll read it right there. Issue a press release accusing them of this. Review the Republican tactics used in the past. Quote a party or minority or civil rights leader as denouncing the tactic.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: This is encouraging your staffers to make up, in a racially divisive way, things that never happened and use those nonexistent events to whip minority voters into a frenzy. This is wrong.
DEVINE: Tucker, what happened in 2000 will never happen again. We're going to fight for every vote across this country.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
DEVINE: We're going to make sure that people vote. We're going to make sure particularly people of color are not turned away from voting places.
And you know what? If we have to fight them in every precinct, fight them in every corner, we will.
CARLSON: My friend, come back to reality.
DEVINE: That's what is going to happen.
CARLSON: We're not refighting 2000 here.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: No, let me tell you something. It's not going to happen.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: I know. Never again. I know.
DEVINE: Yes, you better believe it.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: But I'm asking you about something very specific.
DEVINE: Right.
CARLSON: And that is the allegation, assuming this is true, and you seem to concede that it is. DEVINE: Well, I don't know if it is true. I haven't seen it.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Assuming that it is, that the Democratic National Committee is encouraging its own staffers to make things up and thereby scare people into believing the Republicans are racist, you don't -- you can't say this is wrong? Come on.
DEVINE: Tucker, we don't have to make it up, OK? It is happening all across the country.
CARLSON: Then why are they encouraging them to make it up?
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: We're filing federal cases in Ohio, OK? This has been going on. There's a pattern and practice of this going on. And I'll tell you what. It's not going to happen again.
(CROSSTALK)
DEVINE: And this is the Republicans' worst nightmare, the worst nightmare of the Republicans. Everybody in this country is going to actually vote in this election, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: And we're going to win it fair and square.
DEVINE: Yes, good luck.
BRAZILE: Well, by the way, we won in Ohio today. And hopefully one day racism will not be here.
Congressman, last night, the president said that John Kerry voted for higher taxes 350 times. Of course, I did my own research, being a former congressional staffer. According to "Congressional Quarterly," a very nonpartisan source, the truth is that Kerry has gone on the legislatively record over 640 times for lower taxes and he voted of course to balance the budget.
Now, can you find another label other than liberal to pin on this donkey?
(LAUGHTER)
MCCOLLUM: Well, let me tell you, "The National Journal," Donna, "The National Journal" says that he's the most liberal senator in the United States Senate today out of all 100. They have a scale. And they're not conservative. They're not liberal.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Did you look at the issues?
MCCOLLUM: Well, I look at the issues, too, and listen to what he has to say.
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: ... the federal government, when he talks about what he is going to do with regard to Medicare and Social Security. You know, last night he didn't answer the Social Security question. He really ducked that.
That's one of the nation's largest, most intractable problems outside of Medicare, and he let the president say what he did, which is that I'm going to fix the problem this way. But all he did was say, I'm going to take this tax cut
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: Fix the problem
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: ... adding $2 trillion more of Social Security debt to a debt that is already growing?
MCCOLLUM: What Kerry said was, I'm going to take the money I'm going to save by repealing the tax on the wealthy and then it isn't going to be a problem anymore.
Well, how many times and how many places otherwise in this campaign has he said he's going to take that same money and spend it somewhere else?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BRAZILE: For the third time in three years, the Bush administration has piled up so much debt that Secretary Snow today asked once again for a new ceiling for the debt limit. Now, again, you keep blaming John Kerry and the Democrats of being liberal, but you guys have been in control of the spending over the last three years.
(APPLAUSE)
MCCOLLUM: Well, there's no question the debt is greater than we would like for it to be. But, if you follow John Kerry, it is going to be a lot worse. The debt is as great as it is largely because of the war on terror right now and the expenditure we've had to deal over that.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
DEVINE: ... because of the president's tax cuts.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: Tad Devine, last night
(CROSSTALK)
MCCOLLUM: We wouldn't have an economic recovery if it weren't for those tax cuts.
CARLSON: Senator Kerry, though he eschews the word, essentially came out for amnesty for illegal aliens. He said, if you've been living in this country for a long time illegally, we'll just redefine your status and make you a citizen. We're going to reward you for being here illegally. I suspect -- in fact, I know, from looking at polls, the average person think that's insane. Did he mean that?
DEVINE: Well, what the average person thinks is insane is the illegal immigrants who are flooding into this nation while George Bush has stood and done nothing for four years, OK, 4,000 a day coming across the border.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: So just call them legal and call it a day?
DEVINE: This president has turned his back on this problem, unfortunately.
CARLSON: Oh.
DEVINE: And, by the way, Tucker, it is a threat to our economy and it's a threat to our security as well.
CARLSON: Well, I agree with you on that.
DEVINE: The president has done nothing, absolutely nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: We're going to have to take a quick commercial break.
I'm sorry. I'm being told we must go. We have to pay for the whole enterprise. We'll be right back.
Next in "Rapid Fire," we'll ask our guests what did John Kerry do before he ran for president? He doesn't want to talk about it.
And we have a report of a new U.S. offensive in Fallujah. We'll go live to the Pentagon for an update after the break.
We'll be right back.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. MILITARY AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon with this breaking news.
A combined force of U.S. and Iraqi troops has launched a ground offensive into the insurgent stronghold of Fallujah tonight, the beginning of an operation that is aimed at wresting control of the city from anti-U.S. and Iraq forces in advance of Iraq's elections. The offensive was proceed by a stepped-up series of airstrikes that targeted safe houses that were believed to belong to the network of Abu Musab Zarqawi, as well as weapons storage areas.
A short time ago, I spoke to Marine 1st Lieutenant Lyle Gilbert, who is one of the commanders of the units spearheading the offensive.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
1ST LT. LYLE GILBERT, 1ST MARINE EXPEDITIONARY UNIT: The troops crossed the line of departure. We had artillery fire, prep fire going out. Aircraft have been moving through the area all day, helicopters providing transport. It's been a pretty uncomfortable time. We have two battalions out there in maneuver right now dealing with the anti- Iraqi forces and achieving the mission of restoring security and stability to this area.
A few minutes ago, we had a significant amount of outgoing artillery. You can still hear the planes roaring overhead, helicopters coming and going. Once in a while there's the occasional burst. Behind my -- just behind me is actually the city of Fallujah. You can't see it right now because of the conditions, but just a little while ago, you could see the lights of the city.
So there is definitely an effort under way on the anti-Iraqi forces, as I said earlier. It is going to be a long night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MCINTYRE: At this early stage of the operation, U.S. military officials are not disclosing the size and scope of the operation. We'll have more from the scene and from Lieutenant Gilbert coming up at 5:00.
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: Welcome back. Time now for "Rapid Fire," where we fire off questions quicker than we can switch co-hosts. And that's pretty quick.
(LAUGHTER) CARLSON: Our guests today, Kerry campaign senior adviser Tad Devine, also former Representative Bill McCollum, Republican from Florida.
BRAZILE: Congressman, you just heard that report from Fallujah. It's clear that the situation is worse. Now, what is President Bush's plan to control the situation and to bring some stability before the elections?
MCCOLLUM: Well, first of all, we had a very successful election Saturday in Afghanistan. It is a remarkable result to see those millions of people voting. I believe exactly the same thing is going to happen in January in Iraq.
The people of Iraq overwhelming want opportunity. You only have a fairly small minority of them who are interested in disrupting all of this. Now, they are really bad people. And I think right now we're on track with this new provisional government to do this. And I think what we're doing today in Fallujah has probably been long overdue.
(APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Now, Tad, I don't even want to ask you, I guess because it makes me so uncomfortable. But it's so completely over the top, I don't think I have a choice. Elizabeth Edwards told ABC Radio she believes Lynne Cheney is ashamed of her own daughter and her sexuality. Can we just agree to knock this off?
DEVINE: That's what she said?
CARLSON: Yes. She said: "I think it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences. It makes me really sad that that is Lynne's response."
What a horrible thing to say.
DEVINE: It wasn't horrible at all.
CARLSON: Can you tell your campaign to knock it off and stop
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: ... in other people's kids, please?
(APPLAUSE)
DEVINE: Absolutely not. I think her response was honest and candid.
(BELL RINGING)
DEVINE: Elizabeth Edwards is a tremendous asset to this campaign. And she is some who tells the truth. And she spoke the truth as she knows it.
CARLSON: What a mean thing to say.
DEVINE: And I welcome her comments. I love hearing her comments.
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: All right, Tad Devine, Bill McCollum, thank you both very much.
MCCOLLUM: My pleasure.
CARLSON: You're not mean, but that was mean.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARLSON: All right, does it seem like politics is becoming a contact sport? Next, we'll show you a way to lash out and nobody gets hurt.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARLSON: Welcome back.
Well, regardless of who you support in the upcoming election, have you ever said to yourself at some point, I could just slap him? Of course you have. And now you can. Go to slapthecandidate.com and click on Bush or Kerry.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Don't like Bush's foreign policy? Well, you can drag the hand and let him have it. Think Kerry ought to keep his mouth shut about other people's children's sexual preferences? Well, drag the hand and give him the old cyber-wallop.
(LAUGHTER)
CARLSON: Third-party candidate Ralph Nader pops up and scores the slap. Bizarre? Yes. Violence-inspiring? Probably. Strictly speaking, a waste of time? No doubt about it, but also pretty satisfying. So try it if you have a minute.
BRAZILE: I'll stick to watching Jerry Springer.
CARLSON: Will you really?
BRAZILE: Absolutely. I don't feel like slapping you around today.
CARLSON: I don't feel like slapping you, Donna. I would never hit a woman.
BRAZILE: Thank you very much. And I would never slap a man that looked like you.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BRAZILE: From the left, I'm Donna Brazile. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson.
Join us again tomorrow, when we will be joined by Jon Stewart, host of "The Daily Show."
See you then.
(APPLAUSE)
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