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CNN Crossfire

Campaign Fighting Words

Aired October 20, 2004 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.

In the CROSSFIRE: The campaign has drawn to a close and it's time for fighting words.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, the president keeps saying how certain he is about things. But you can't just be always certain and frequently wrong. It doesn't make sense.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He looked in the camera the other night, with a straight face, and said, he's not going to raise taxes on anyone who earns less than $200,000 of. The problem with that is, to keep that promise, he would have to break almost all of his other ones.

ANNOUNCER: From the war in Iraq to the battle over taxes and health care, the candidates and their campaign supporters are on the attack.

Today on CROSSFIRE.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.

(APPLAUSE)

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

Terror attacks, Iraq, unemployment, the flu, bad breath, according to John Kerry, George W. Bush is responsible for all of it. The two are slugging it out on the campaign trail today.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Meanwhile, Vice President Dick Cheney says we have to wrap our minds about the notion of an American city being nuked. A respected think tank says he's right because Mr. Bush's war with Iraq has emboldened Iran and North Korea to rush ahead with their nuclear programs.

We'll discuss scare tactics and an increasingly scary campaign in just a moment. But let's get started, as we always do, with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." We know that General Colin Powell warned President Bush about invading Iraq. We know General Hugh Shelton warned him and General Eric Shinseki and General Anthony Zinni and General Brent Scowcroft. He was generally warned. But last night, we learned that even God warned Mr. Bush about casualties, at least according to Reverend Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT ROBERTSON, AUTHOR, "COURTING DISASTER": The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy. And before that, I had deep, in my spirit, I had deep misgivings about going into Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: And how did our publicly pious president respond?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mr. President, I don't know how to tell you this without hurting your feelings, but God likes Pat Robertson more than he does you. I'm sorry. And you know what? He doesn't like Pat Robertson very much. No, I'm just kidding. Satan made me say that, Mr. President. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Here's my question. If God told Pat Robertson that, why didn't anyone tell Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, John Edwards, all these Democrats who voted for the war and never raised the specter of a messy occupation? They never did.

BEGALA: When Pat Robertson thinks you're too disengaged from reality, you have big problems, right? I mean, Reverend Robertson...

(CROSSTALK)

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: What you're trying to do is suck me into a discussion of Pat Robertson's relationship with God and the conversations they have. And I'm not going there.

BEGALA: Right. Well, God was right. And so was Pat Robertson.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: As he often is. BEGALA: Often. Not always. Wait until we get him in the CROSSFIRE. His butt is mine.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: Well, over the past two years, the Kerry campaign has charged George W. Bush and Dick Cheney of everything from being soft on Osama to giving people the flu.

At times, Kerry has all but called his opponents evil. And it still hasn't worked. Bush remains ahead in the polls. So the Kerry people are trying a new tact, slamming the spouses. Just like week, Elizabeth Edwards, wife of Senator John Edwards, accused Lynne Cheney of being a bad mother to her gay daughter. It was a new low in campaign politics, but it was not the last.

In today's "USA Today," Teresa Heinz Kerry goes after Laura Bush for the sin of being a housewife -- quote -- "I don't know that she's ever had a real job," sniffs the woman whose private jet whisks her to one of her many weekend estates. A hard worker, she is. This afternoon, Heinz Kerry issued a correction, admitting that Laura Bush was once employed as a librarian and a schoolteacher. But she made no mention of the many years Mrs. Bush spent raising her two daughters. That apparently does not qualify as a real job to the Kerry campaign.

BEGALA: Wait a minute. Teresa Heinz Kerry did a great job and a real job raising her children, as Mrs. Bush did raising hers. Thank God neither campaign is stooping to the hate-filled tactics that were used against Hillary Clinton. Maybe people are beginning to learn. But both Mrs. Bush is a wonderful person and Mrs. Heinz Kerry is a wonderful person.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Why don't we just stop bashing the wives?

CARLSON: Then why are they doing it? Why did Mrs. Edwards attack Lynne Cheney? That was disgusting. Even you won't defend that.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Why in the world is Teresa weighing in on Mrs. Bush's jobs?

BEGALA: It's nothing compared to what the wingers did to my friend Hillary Clinton.

CARLSON: But the candidates didn't do it. That's the difference.

BEGALA: Oh, please. Everybody did.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Bob Dole never attacked Hillary Clinton. (CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: That's true.

BEGALA: Well, our friend Pat Buchanan certainly did, gave a whole speech. Well, we'll get back to that in a minute.

But, on the campaign trail, President Bush likes to portray himself as a friend of the veteran, except, of course, veterans like John McCain or Max Cleland or Al Gore or John Kerry, other veterans, those who aren't running against him. Those are the ones he loves. In last week's debate, in fact, he made this boast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue to do so during the next four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: A new study from Public Citizen and Harvard University says nearly a quarter million veterans have lost their health care under President Bush. One of the study's authors, Dr. David Himmelstein of Harvard, says -- quote -- "This administration professes great concern for veterans, but it's all talk and no action. Our president," Dr. Himmelstein continues, "has put troops in harm's way overseas and abandons them and their families once they get home."

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I don't mean to contradict Dr. Himmelstein of Harvard, but a new study came out this week that shows that active duty military personnel, people who are actually serving in Iraq, are going to vote for Bush overwhelmingly, not by 10 points, but by like 30 points, 25 points. That tells you a lot, actually.

BEGALA: But once they get home and become veterans, Bush is going to beat them like a

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... mule. No, Bush has abused our veterans. He has been savage to those veterans.

CARLSON: Really?

If that's so, if that's so, then why do our active duty personnel support him so strongly?

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Well, first off, we have to wait and see how they vote. And you may be surprised.

CARLSON: I would be surprised if he lost that vote. Well, earlier this month, the Sinclair Broadcasting Company announced plans to run a documentary on John Kerry's wartime service in Vietnam. The film includes interviews with 17 former prisoners of war who say that Kerry's testimony before the 1971 congressional inquiry in which he called American G.I.s war criminals made their captivity in North Vietnam much more difficult. It's a legitimate point of view. It's potentially important. You're likely not to see it ever.

Sinclair announced yesterday that it will not air the documentary in full. Why? Because Democrats in the Congress, none of whom had actually seen the film, decided it should not be shown. It should not be allowed to be shown. As "The Washington Post" put it -- quote -- "Democrats have complained to three federal agencies about the special, noting that Sinclair's owners have contributed heavily to President Bush and the Republican Party."

In other words, a television company is run by people who have, gasp, conservative political beliefs. Therefore, you should not be allowed to see their documentary. That literally is the justification. Here's my question. Didn't liberals used to stand up for the First Amendment? Where are they now?

BEGALA: Well, first off, this was largely engineered by a terrific group, an independent group called Media Matters For America, a progressive group that monitors the media. There was no government action here.

CARLSON: It's a joke.

BEGALA: This was public pressure and a company responding to public pressure.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: The government didn't take any action at all, none.

CARLSON: That is a complete mischaracterization. You had almost 20 Democrats in the United States Senate complaining...

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Taking what action?

CARLSON: Complaining to three federal agencies which regulate...

BEGALA: Which took no steps. The government took no actions.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Look, I shared your view that the FCC should not take action. You were right about that.

CARLSON: Then why did they try to get the FCC to take...

BEGALA: But this was.. (CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... and political pressure.

CARLSON: That's just not true.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Which is what they've caved into. Thank God they did. Good for Media Matters For America.

CARLSON: Media Matters and David Brock had nothing to do with it.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: They don't know anything about journalism.

BEGALA: Well, President Bush and Senator John Kerry were both in Iowa today. Mr. Bush slammed Senator Kerry, calling him a big taxer. Senator Kerry, meanwhile, slammed back, saying the president's conduct in the war in Iraq was a profound diversion from the war on terror. We'll hear from both sides slamming each other in just a moment.

And he's going for a scream, but now Howard Dean's turning up the volume for fun and profit. We will show you Dean scream two later in the CROSSFIRE. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Both President Bush and Senator John Kerry were stumping in Iowa today. Senator Kerry focused on the mess in Iraq, while President Bush focused on the mess here at home. So, the question is, which country has President Bush done more damage to? We'll debate that today in the CROSSFIRE with Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia and Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland.

It's good to see you. Thanks for being here.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, thanks...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... for joining us.

I'm confused, and I hope you can clear this up for me. John Kerry made the case today, as he has before, that the occupation of Iraq, the war in Iraq, is not the front line in the war on terror. That's fine. Given that he believes that, why is he simultaneously arguing that we need to keep 130,000 troops there?

REP. ALBERT WYNN (D), MARYLAND: Well, I think we all understand that we have to remain.

George Bush got us into this mess. We can't cut and run. I think John Kerry is very responsible when he says, what we need to do is do this in a better way, more intelligent way, not make the mistakes that George Bush continues to make. So, yes, we're going to stay there. But John Kerry is saying, he can do it better. He can get Iraqis trained quicker. He can get more international cooperation. And, on that basis, we can handle this issue more successfully.

CARLSON: But...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I've heard the talking points. Don't cut and run, whatever that means. But if what John Kerry...

WYNN: They're Republican talking points.

CARLSON: That is a Republican talking point, actually. That's right. And it's been stolen, as so many have, by John Kerry.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: But if that's true, that Iraq is not the front line in the war on terror, we don't have much time. OK? Our military is finite. There are a lot of troops there. We need them to be on the actual front line of terror. Why isn't John Kerry saying what he must truly think, if he believes in the first point, that we need to take those troops right now and redeploy them to where the terrorists really are? The makes sense.

WYNN: I don't think he said that. What he said is, George Bush should have gone after Osama bin Laden when he had the chance.

That was the first front in the war on terror. He hasn't done that. Osama bin Laden is still at large. We haven't really had a success there. But he's not in any form or fashion saying, we're going to pull out or cut and run.

CARLSON: Well, he should. He should, because it makes sense. (CROSSTALK)

WYNN: Well, we're there. We're going to have to clean up George Bush's mess.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, first, good to see you again.

REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: Good to be back.

BEGALA: Let me play you a piece of videotape actually from Senator Kerry today. He had a very tough speech on the topic that Tucker suggested. Let him speak for himself. Here's John Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: The president's failures in Iraq, my friends, have made us, as Admiral Stansfield Turner just said, have made us weaker, not stronger in the war on terrorism. That is the hard truth that America needs to consider in these next days. The president refuses to acknowledge it. But terrorism experts around the world do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Well, John Kerry is right. Hasn't the president's war in Iraq made us weaker in the face of the terrorist threat?

DAVIS: Well, I don't think so.

Frankly, we're taking the war there, instead of waiting defensively for them to attack here. You have every jihad group in the Middle East pouring in to go after Americans there, as opposed to coming here. We're on offense.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Our failure has been manifest that it's actually a success now.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That we've so screwed this up, right, so we're going to fight them there. It doesn't matter which there. We were fighting them in Afghanistan, where they actually were. Now they're migrating to Iraq and that's a success?

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: This is a guy that was paying $25,000 per suicide bomber. He was subsidizing suicide bombers in Israel. He was exporting terror from there. Wasn't the only country doing it, but he's in part and parcel of terrorist influence throughout the world.

BEGALA: Senator Kerry said that terrorism experts agree with him. And, you know, politicians use hyperbole.

(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: But there's a story in "The Financial Times' today that suggests maybe Kerry's on to something.

Let me read you "The Times"' report, "Financial Times." "The London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies found in its annual assessment of global security threats that the U.S.' ever deeper involvement in Iraq had emboldened Iran and North Korea to withstand Western pressure to give up their nuclear ambitions.

That's a good example of real enemies in Iran and North Korea trying to build nuclear weapons because of President Bush's war in Iraq, right?

DAVIS: Actually, they were building it before this president came to office. We thought we had an agreement before. North Korea's been working on this for years. And Iran was -- it's the same thing. The president called them the axis of evil.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That's wrong, that the Bush war in Iraq has not emboldened our enemies...

(CROSSTALK)

DAVIS: Well, all I'm saying is they were doing this before President Bush came to office. And I think, if anything, the president's activity in Iraq ought to make them a little more nervous that we're just not going to sit back and wait for them to hit us.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, one of Senator Kerry's key arguments is that once Bush is gone, the very, very icky Bush, with his Texan accent, our European allies, the chocolate-producing nations, will want to just...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... right into Iraq and fill the void left by our retreating troops. Not true.

I want to read you a quote from Dominique Moisi from the French Institute For International Relations, who has this to say: "Do not expect miracles from a Kerry victory. It's not as if you elect Kerry and suddenly France decides it will rush troops to Iraq. Countries that supported the war are leaving. Countries that opposed it will not get in." Now, this is from the French. This is a key Kerry constituency. No one supports Kerry like the French. And even they are skeptical of his claims. What does that tell you?

WYNN: It tells you that you're really mining this French angle. Look...

CARLSON: I love the French angle. I'll admit it. I'll admit it, yes.

WYNN: I know that. I know that. But the fact of the matter is, the problem with the Bush administration is arrogance, hubris. That is the big problem we have in the international community. When we remove President Bush, I think America will be seen in a better light. We're not going to have instantaneous response, but I think we will be in a position to negotiate and bring people, including the French, to the table.

He's going to work with NATO and say, we need more NATO cooperation. And I think he will be in a better position. This cowboy mentality that George Bush has brought to international affairs is just not working. It's offended people, so they have no real motivation. Kerry says also, look, we're going to share the reconstruction, not just Halliburton. Maybe we'll bring in some other countries. That would also provide an incentive for countries to participate. It's a reasoned approach.

CARLSON: And yet, not all Europeans buy that.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: It turns out they're not that dumb. They've been around a long time. And Kerry brings his own baggage. Bush may be seen as arrogant, but Kerry is seen as a flip-flopper, even abroad.

This from the Italian defense minister, who told "The Boston Globe" -- and I'm quoting now -- "The only thing that worries me about Kerry is that the man appears to change opinions with a certain ease."

Now, if the Italians are saying you lack resolve, problematic.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: Well, you've gone now from the French to the Italians.

CARLSON: Well, look, I'm going to all the interest groups that support Kerry here, all of Western Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: The fact remains that resolve is no substitute for competence. And what we're seeing is gross incompetence on the part of the Bush administration.

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: What John Kerry will bring to the table I think is a more competent approach. And they'll respond, I think.

BEGALA: Let me take you to a higher authority. We've quoted the British, as I just did.

DAVIS: Right.

BEGALA: Tucker, with an impeccable accent, quoted Madam Moisi or whatever she was from France and now...

CARLSON: It was a man, Dominique Moisi.

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: Whatever. It's hard to tell sometimes. And now some guy from the right-wing Berlusconi government in Italy. Let me go to a higher authority.

The lord God almighty has weighed in via his vehicle. Pat Robertson gave a remarkable interview last night to Paula Zahn here on CNN. Here's Reverend Robertson relaying his conversations first God to Robertson, then Robertson to Bush. Here's Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I warned him about this war. I had deep misgivings about this war, deep misgivings. And I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be. And so, it was messy. The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mike McCurry, the spokesman for John Kerry, posits this question.

DAVIS: I guess with friends like that...

BEGALA: Is Pat Robertson lying?

DAVIS: I wasn't there. I have no idea.

BEGALA: Well, who do you believe?

DAVIS: I believe the president. I think the president's got a better reputation in terms of dealing with us on...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: But Bush hasn't denied this. I'm just curious.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: You hear Pat Robertson saying I warned Bush. Set God aside. he says, I warned Bush, and Bush said, we're not going to have any casualties. Do you think he's lying about that?

DAVIS: I think a lot of people warned the president of what the pitfalls would be of going into Iraq. It was part and parcel of the debates in Congress. I think a lot of us expressed concern about where it could go. And I'm sure he was aware of it when he made the decision.

CARLSON: All right, we'll be right back.

Next in "Rapid Fire," you won't believe who's been called on to help John Kerry. You won't believe whose hometown newspaper says, no way, don't vote for him for president.

And are members of Congress getting preferential treatment when they come to get flu shots? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Coming up at the top of the hour, for ordinary Americans, flu shots are hard to come by. Are members of the United States Congress getting special treatment, though?

A commuter plane crashes on its approach to a Missouri airport. Eight people are dead, and the toll may rise.

And did President Bush really expect the U.S. to win the Iraq war without sustaining any casualties? That's what the Reverend Pat Robertson says. Now there's an official response from the White House.

All those stories, much more, coming up on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

Now back to CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions quicker than Senator Kerry can blame the president for the common cold.

Joining us today are Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland and Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia.

BEGALA: If not the cold, let me blame the president for the flu vaccines.

Congressmen apparently get their own flu shots, even if they're not at risk. Isn't that a good argument that Kerry is right, that the American people should be able to get the same health plan that you congressmen get?

DAVIS: They should be able to get it, but they told me you had to be 65 to get the flu shots in the physician's office. And they had to meet the same criteria.

So, I think that's what we've tried to use on Capitol Hill. We ought to be setting the example. And we ought to be able to have the large pools available that we have under FEHBP and create those. Unfortunately, some of it has been held up by filibusters in the Senate as we try to -- by the Democrats. Everybody recognizes that the market mechanisms that work so well for the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan ought to be duplicated at the federal level. But we've been unable to get there.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, yesterday, or, rather, today, it turns out "The Boston Herald," John Kerry's hometown newspaper, which says he's done actually a pretty good job serving the state, they say nice things about him, say that he is the wrong man. They endorsed President Bush. That's really like your wife coming out and endorsing your opponent, isn't it?

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: No fair.

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: There's a back-story to that.

CARLSON: Oh, not you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that at all. I mean one's wife.

WYNN: One's wife.

Well, let me just say this. I know there's a "Lone Star Texas Iconoclast." I think that what the paper is called out of Crawford, Texas, that is endorsing Kerry. So I think the papers are probably switching positions. It breaks about even.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, yes or no, did President Bush do a good job of planning for post-Saddam Iraq?

DAVIS: In retrospect, I think they underestimated what the post- threat would be. They probably -- I think that's fair to say. I think we all recognize that.

BEGALA: An honest man.

CARLSON: All right. We are completely out of time.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, Congressman Davis, thank you both very much.

DAVIS: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: We appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, he screamed his way out of the presidential race. Now Howard Dean has screamed his way back to in to an endorsement deal. We'll tell you who is buying his pitch right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: ... South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico. We're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Well, he's not running for president any longer, unfortunately, but, yes, ladies and gentlemen, he still has a great set of lungs.

Howard Dean, who derailed his bid for the Democratic nomination by barking at people in public, is putting his Internet savvy to good use. He is now a pitch man for Yahoo!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

DEAN: Yahoo! Local has helped me find all sorts of things, like bookstores in Iowa, and convention centers in Nebraska, and some very interesting diners in Illinois!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: That's pretty good.

BEGALA: Good for Howard Dean.

CARLSON: I always liked Howard Dean, not just for the comedic value, but I thought that there was something kind of charming about Howard Dean in his unfetteredness. And...

BEGALA: I will say, he gave my party back its spine. He was the first one of serious consequence to speak out against the war. He was right.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: But, even in a nonpartisan way, he can laugh at himself.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: And you know what? Somebody who can laugh at himself is somebody I admire.

CARLSON: But you've got to admit, that the Democratic Party took him seriously says something a little embarrassing about the party, honestly.

BEGALA: No. He was right about the war, and President Bush was wrong.

And, Governor Dean, thank you for pointing that out.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.

CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE.

"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. We'll see you tomorrow.

(APPLAUSE)

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.

In the CROSSFIRE: The campaign has drawn to a close and it's time for fighting words.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, the president keeps saying how certain he is about things. But you can't just be always certain and frequently wrong. It doesn't make sense.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He looked in the camera the other night, with a straight face, and said, he's not going to raise taxes on anyone who earns less than $200,000 of. The problem with that is, to keep that promise, he would have to break almost all of his other ones.

ANNOUNCER: From the war in Iraq to the battle over taxes and health care, the candidates and their campaign supporters are on the attack.

Today on CROSSFIRE.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.

(APPLAUSE)

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

Terror attacks, Iraq, unemployment, the flu, bad breath, according to John Kerry, George W. Bush is responsible for all of it. The two are slugging it out on the campaign trail today.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Meanwhile, Vice President Dick Cheney says we have to wrap our minds about the notion of an American city being nuked. A respected think tank says he's right because Mr. Bush's war with Iraq has emboldened Iran and North Korea to rush ahead with their nuclear programs.

We'll discuss scare tactics and an increasingly scary campaign in just a moment. But let's get started, as we always do, with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."

We know that General Colin Powell warned President Bush about invading Iraq. We know General Hugh Shelton warned him and General Eric Shinseki and General Anthony Zinni and General Brent Scowcroft. He was generally warned. But last night, we learned that even God warned Mr. Bush about casualties, at least according to Reverend Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT ROBERTSON, AUTHOR, "COURTING DISASTER": The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy. And before that, I had deep, in my spirit, I had deep misgivings about going into Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: And how did our publicly pious president respond?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mr. President, I don't know how to tell you this without hurting your feelings, but God likes Pat Robertson more than he does you. I'm sorry. And you know what? He doesn't like Pat Robertson very much. No, I'm just kidding. Satan made me say that, Mr. President. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Here's my question. If God told Pat Robertson that, why didn't anyone tell Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, John Edwards, all these Democrats who voted for the war and never raised the specter of a messy occupation? They never did.

BEGALA: When Pat Robertson thinks you're too disengaged from reality, you have big problems, right? I mean, Reverend Robertson...

(CROSSTALK)

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: What you're trying to do is suck me into a discussion of Pat Robertson's relationship with God and the conversations they have. And I'm not going there.

BEGALA: Right. Well, God was right. And so was Pat Robertson.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: As he often is.

BEGALA: Often. Not always. Wait until we get him in the CROSSFIRE. His butt is mine.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: Well, over the past two years, the Kerry campaign has charged George W. Bush and Dick Cheney of everything from being soft on Osama to giving people the flu.

At times, Kerry has all but called his opponents evil. And it still hasn't worked. Bush remains ahead in the polls. So the Kerry people are trying a new tact, slamming the spouses. Just like week, Elizabeth Edwards, wife of Senator John Edwards, accused Lynne Cheney of being a bad mother to her gay daughter. It was a new low in campaign politics, but it was not the last.

In today's "USA Today," Teresa Heinz Kerry goes after Laura Bush for the sin of being a housewife -- quote -- "I don't know that she's ever had a real job," sniffs the woman whose private jet whisks her to one of her many weekend estates. A hard worker, she is. This afternoon, Heinz Kerry issued a correction, admitting that Laura Bush was once employed as a librarian and a schoolteacher. But she made no mention of the many years Mrs. Bush spent raising her two daughters. That apparently does not qualify as a real job to the Kerry campaign. BEGALA: Wait a minute. Teresa Heinz Kerry did a great job and a real job raising her children, as Mrs. Bush did raising hers. Thank God neither campaign is stooping to the hate-filled tactics that were used against Hillary Clinton. Maybe people are beginning to learn. But both Mrs. Bush is a wonderful person and Mrs. Heinz Kerry is a wonderful person.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Why don't we just stop bashing the wives?

CARLSON: Then why are they doing it? Why did Mrs. Edwards attack Lynne Cheney? That was disgusting. Even you won't defend that.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Why in the world is Teresa weighing in on Mrs. Bush's jobs?

BEGALA: It's nothing compared to what the wingers did to my friend Hillary Clinton.

CARLSON: But the candidates didn't do it. That's the difference.

BEGALA: Oh, please. Everybody did.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Bob Dole never attacked Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: That's true.

BEGALA: Well, our friend Pat Buchanan certainly did, gave a whole speech. Well, we'll get back to that in a minute.

But, on the campaign trail, President Bush likes to portray himself as a friend of the veteran, except, of course, veterans like John McCain or Max Cleland or Al Gore or John Kerry, other veterans, those who aren't running against him. Those are the ones he loves. In last week's debate, in fact, he made this boast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue to do so during the next four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: A new study from Public Citizen and Harvard University says nearly a quarter million veterans have lost their health care under President Bush. One of the study's authors, Dr. David Himmelstein of Harvard, says -- quote -- "This administration professes great concern for veterans, but it's all talk and no action. Our president," Dr. Himmelstein continues, "has put troops in harm's way overseas and abandons them and their families once they get home."

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I don't mean to contradict Dr. Himmelstein of Harvard, but a new study came out this week that shows that active duty military personnel, people who are actually serving in Iraq, are going to vote for Bush overwhelmingly, not by 10 points, but by like 30 points, 25 points. That tells you a lot, actually.

BEGALA: But once they get home and become veterans, Bush is going to beat them like a

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... mule. No, Bush has abused our veterans. He has been savage to those veterans.

CARLSON: Really?

If that's so, if that's so, then why do our active duty personnel support him so strongly?

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Well, first off, we have to wait and see how they vote. And you may be surprised.

CARLSON: I would be surprised if he lost that vote.

Well, earlier this month, the Sinclair Broadcasting Company announced plans to run a documentary on John Kerry's wartime service in Vietnam. The film includes interviews with 17 former prisoners of war who say that Kerry's testimony before the 1971 congressional inquiry in which he called American G.I.s war criminals made their captivity in North Vietnam much more difficult. It's a legitimate point of view. It's potentially important. You're likely not to see it ever.

Sinclair announced yesterday that it will not air the documentary in full. Why? Because Democrats in the Congress, none of whom had actually seen the film, decided it should not be shown. It should not be allowed to be shown. As "The Washington Post" put it -- quote -- "Democrats have complained to three federal agencies about the special, noting that Sinclair's owners have contributed heavily to President Bush and the Republican Party."

In other words, a television company is run by people who have, gasp, conservative political beliefs. Therefore, you should not be allowed to see their documentary. That literally is the justification. Here's my question. Didn't liberals used to stand up for the First Amendment? Where are they now?

BEGALA: Well, first off, this was largely engineered by a terrific group, an independent group called Media Matters For America, a progressive group that monitors the media. There was no government action here.

CARLSON: It's a joke.

BEGALA: This was public pressure and a company responding to public pressure.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: The government didn't take any action at all, none.

CARLSON: That is a complete mischaracterization. You had almost 20 Democrats in the United States Senate complaining...

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Taking what action?

CARLSON: Complaining to three federal agencies which regulate...

BEGALA: Which took no steps. The government took no actions.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Look, I shared your view that the FCC should not take action. You were right about that.

CARLSON: Then why did they try to get the FCC to take...

BEGALA: But this was..

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... and political pressure.

CARLSON: That's just not true.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Which is what they've caved into. Thank God they did. Good for Media Matters For America.

CARLSON: Media Matters and David Brock had nothing to do with it.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: They don't know anything about journalism.

BEGALA: Well, President Bush and Senator John Kerry were both in Iowa today. Mr. Bush slammed Senator Kerry, calling him a big taxer. Senator Kerry, meanwhile, slammed back, saying the president's conduct in the war in Iraq was a profound diversion from the war on terror. We'll hear from both sides slamming each other in just a moment. And he's going for a scream, but now Howard Dean's turning up the volume for fun and profit. We will show you Dean scream two later in the CROSSFIRE. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Both President Bush and Senator John Kerry were stumping in Iowa today. Senator Kerry focused on the mess in Iraq, while President Bush focused on the mess here at home. So, the question is, which country has President Bush done more damage to? We'll debate that today in the CROSSFIRE with Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia and Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland.

It's good to see you. Thanks for being here.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, thanks...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... for joining us.

I'm confused, and I hope you can clear this up for me. John Kerry made the case today, as he has before, that the occupation of Iraq, the war in Iraq, is not the front line in the war on terror. That's fine. Given that he believes that, why is he simultaneously arguing that we need to keep 130,000 troops there?

REP. ALBERT WYNN (D), MARYLAND: Well, I think we all understand that we have to remain.

George Bush got us into this mess. We can't cut and run. I think John Kerry is very responsible when he says, what we need to do is do this in a better way, more intelligent way, not make the mistakes that George Bush continues to make. So, yes, we're going to stay there. But John Kerry is saying, he can do it better. He can get Iraqis trained quicker. He can get more international cooperation. And, on that basis, we can handle this issue more successfully.

CARLSON: But...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I've heard the talking points. Don't cut and run, whatever that means. But if what John Kerry...

WYNN: They're Republican talking points.

CARLSON: That is a Republican talking point, actually. That's right. And it's been stolen, as so many have, by John Kerry.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: But if that's true, that Iraq is not the front line in the war on terror, we don't have much time. OK? Our military is finite. There are a lot of troops there. We need them to be on the actual front line of terror. Why isn't John Kerry saying what he must truly think, if he believes in the first point, that we need to take those troops right now and redeploy them to where the terrorists really are? The makes sense.

WYNN: I don't think he said that. What he said is, George Bush should have gone after Osama bin Laden when he had the chance.

That was the first front in the war on terror. He hasn't done that. Osama bin Laden is still at large. We haven't really had a success there. But he's not in any form or fashion saying, we're going to pull out or cut and run.

CARLSON: Well, he should. He should, because it makes sense.

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: Well, we're there. We're going to have to clean up George Bush's mess.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, first, good to see you again.

REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: Good to be back.

BEGALA: Let me play you a piece of videotape actually from Senator Kerry today. He had a very tough speech on the topic that Tucker suggested. Let him speak for himself. Here's John Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: The president's failures in Iraq, my friends, have made us, as Admiral Stansfield Turner just said, have made us weaker, not stronger in the war on terrorism. That is the hard truth that America needs to consider in these next days. The president refuses to acknowledge it. But terrorism experts around the world do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Well, John Kerry is right. Hasn't the president's war in Iraq made us weaker in the face of the terrorist threat?

DAVIS: Well, I don't think so.

Frankly, we're taking the war there, instead of waiting defensively for them to attack here. You have every jihad group in the Middle East pouring in to go after Americans there, as opposed to coming here. We're on offense.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Our failure has been manifest that it's actually a success now.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That we've so screwed this up, right, so we're going to fight them there. It doesn't matter which there. We were fighting them in Afghanistan, where they actually were. Now they're migrating to Iraq and that's a success?

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: This is a guy that was paying $25,000 per suicide bomber. He was subsidizing suicide bombers in Israel. He was exporting terror from there. Wasn't the only country doing it, but he's in part and parcel of terrorist influence throughout the world.

BEGALA: Senator Kerry said that terrorism experts agree with him. And, you know, politicians use hyperbole.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: But there's a story in "The Financial Times' today that suggests maybe Kerry's on to something.

Let me read you "The Times"' report, "Financial Times." "The London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies found in its annual assessment of global security threats that the U.S.' ever deeper involvement in Iraq had emboldened Iran and North Korea to withstand Western pressure to give up their nuclear ambitions.

That's a good example of real enemies in Iran and North Korea trying to build nuclear weapons because of President Bush's war in Iraq, right?

DAVIS: Actually, they were building it before this president came to office. We thought we had an agreement before. North Korea's been working on this for years. And Iran was -- it's the same thing. The president called them the axis of evil.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That's wrong, that the Bush war in Iraq has not emboldened our enemies...

(CROSSTALK) DAVIS: Well, all I'm saying is they were doing this before President Bush came to office. And I think, if anything, the president's activity in Iraq ought to make them a little more nervous that we're just not going to sit back and wait for them to hit us.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, one of Senator Kerry's key arguments is that once Bush is gone, the very, very icky Bush, with his Texan accent, our European allies, the chocolate-producing nations, will want to just...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... right into Iraq and fill the void left by our retreating troops. Not true.

I want to read you a quote from Dominique Moisi from the French Institute For International Relations, who has this to say: "Do not expect miracles from a Kerry victory. It's not as if you elect Kerry and suddenly France decides it will rush troops to Iraq. Countries that supported the war are leaving. Countries that opposed it will not get in." Now, this is from the French. This is a key Kerry constituency. No one supports Kerry like the French. And even they are skeptical of his claims. What does that tell you?

WYNN: It tells you that you're really mining this French angle. Look...

CARLSON: I love the French angle. I'll admit it. I'll admit it, yes.

WYNN: I know that. I know that.

But the fact of the matter is, the problem with the Bush administration is arrogance, hubris. That is the big problem we have in the international community. When we remove President Bush, I think America will be seen in a better light. We're not going to have instantaneous response, but I think we will be in a position to negotiate and bring people, including the French, to the table.

He's going to work with NATO and say, we need more NATO cooperation. And I think he will be in a better position. This cowboy mentality that George Bush has brought to international affairs is just not working. It's offended people, so they have no real motivation. Kerry says also, look, we're going to share the reconstruction, not just Halliburton. Maybe we'll bring in some other countries. That would also provide an incentive for countries to participate. It's a reasoned approach.

CARLSON: And yet, not all Europeans buy that.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: It turns out they're not that dumb. They've been around a long time. And Kerry brings his own baggage. Bush may be seen as arrogant, but Kerry is seen as a flip-flopper, even abroad. This from the Italian defense minister, who told "The Boston Globe" -- and I'm quoting now -- "The only thing that worries me about Kerry is that the man appears to change opinions with a certain ease."

Now, if the Italians are saying you lack resolve, problematic.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: Well, you've gone now from the French to the Italians.

CARLSON: Well, look, I'm going to all the interest groups that support Kerry here, all of Western Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: The fact remains that resolve is no substitute for competence. And what we're seeing is gross incompetence on the part of the Bush administration.

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: What John Kerry will bring to the table I think is a more competent approach. And they'll respond, I think.

BEGALA: Let me take you to a higher authority. We've quoted the British, as I just did.

DAVIS: Right.

BEGALA: Tucker, with an impeccable accent, quoted Madam Moisi or whatever she was from France and now...

CARLSON: It was a man, Dominique Moisi.

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: Whatever. It's hard to tell sometimes. And now some guy from the right-wing Berlusconi government in Italy. Let me go to a higher authority.

The lord God almighty has weighed in via his vehicle. Pat Robertson gave a remarkable interview last night to Paula Zahn here on CNN. Here's Reverend Robertson relaying his conversations first God to Robertson, then Robertson to Bush. Here's Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I warned him about this war. I had deep misgivings about this war, deep misgivings. And I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be. And so, it was messy. The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mike McCurry, the spokesman for John Kerry, posits this question.

DAVIS: I guess with friends like that...

BEGALA: Is Pat Robertson lying?

DAVIS: I wasn't there. I have no idea.

BEGALA: Well, who do you believe?

DAVIS: I believe the president. I think the president's got a better reputation in terms of dealing with us on...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: But Bush hasn't denied this. I'm just curious.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: You hear Pat Robertson saying I warned Bush. Set God aside. he says, I warned Bush, and Bush said, we're not going to have any casualties. Do you think he's lying about that?

DAVIS: I think a lot of people warned the president of what the pitfalls would be of going into Iraq. It was part and parcel of the debates in Congress. I think a lot of us expressed concern about where it could go. And I'm sure he was aware of it when he made the decision.

CARLSON: All right, we'll be right back.

Next in "Rapid Fire," you won't believe who's been called on to help John Kerry. You won't believe whose hometown newspaper says, no way, don't vote for him for president.

And are members of Congress getting preferential treatment when they come to get flu shots? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Coming up at the top of the hour, for ordinary Americans, flu shots are hard to come by. Are members of the United States Congress getting special treatment, though?

A commuter plane crashes on its approach to a Missouri airport. Eight people are dead, and the toll may rise.

And did President Bush really expect the U.S. to win the Iraq war without sustaining any casualties? That's what the Reverend Pat Robertson says. Now there's an official response from the White House.

All those stories, much more, coming up on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

Now back to CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions quicker than Senator Kerry can blame the president for the common cold.

Joining us today are Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland and Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia.

BEGALA: If not the cold, let me blame the president for the flu vaccines.

Congressmen apparently get their own flu shots, even if they're not at risk. Isn't that a good argument that Kerry is right, that the American people should be able to get the same health plan that you congressmen get?

DAVIS: They should be able to get it, but they told me you had to be 65 to get the flu shots in the physician's office. And they had to meet the same criteria.

So, I think that's what we've tried to use on Capitol Hill. We ought to be setting the example. And we ought to be able to have the large pools available that we have under FEHBP and create those. Unfortunately, some of it has been held up by filibusters in the Senate as we try to -- by the Democrats. Everybody recognizes that the market mechanisms that work so well for the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan ought to be duplicated at the federal level. But we've been unable to get there.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, yesterday, or, rather, today, it turns out "The Boston Herald," John Kerry's hometown newspaper, which says he's done actually a pretty good job serving the state, they say nice things about him, say that he is the wrong man. They endorsed President Bush. That's really like your wife coming out and endorsing your opponent, isn't it?

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: No fair.

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: There's a back-story to that.

CARLSON: Oh, not you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that at all. I mean one's wife.

WYNN: One's wife. Well, let me just say this. I know there's a "Lone Star Texas Iconoclast." I think that what the paper is called out of Crawford, Texas, that is endorsing Kerry. So I think the papers are probably switching positions. It breaks about even.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, yes or no, did President Bush do a good job of planning for post-Saddam Iraq?

DAVIS: In retrospect, I think they underestimated what the post- threat would be. They probably -- I think that's fair to say. I think we all recognize that.

BEGALA: An honest man.

CARLSON: All right. We are completely out of time.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, Congressman Davis, thank you both very much.

DAVIS: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: We appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, he screamed his way out of the presidential race. Now Howard Dean has screamed his way back to in to an endorsement deal. We'll tell you who is buying his pitch right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: ... South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico. We're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Well, he's not running for president any longer, unfortunately, but, yes, ladies and gentlemen, he still has a great set of lungs.

Howard Dean, who derailed his bid for the Democratic nomination by barking at people in public, is putting his Internet savvy to good use. He is now a pitch man for Yahoo!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

DEAN: Yahoo! Local has helped me find all sorts of things, like bookstores in Iowa, and convention centers in Nebraska, and some very interesting diners in Illinois!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: That's pretty good.

BEGALA: Good for Howard Dean.

CARLSON: I always liked Howard Dean, not just for the comedic value, but I thought that there was something kind of charming about Howard Dean in his unfetteredness. And...

BEGALA: I will say, he gave my party back its spine. He was the first one of serious consequence to speak out against the war. He was right.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: But, even in a nonpartisan way, he can laugh at himself.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: And you know what? Somebody who can laugh at himself is somebody I admire.

CARLSON: But you've got to admit, that the Democratic Party took him seriously says something a little embarrassing about the party, honestly.

BEGALA: No. He was right about the war, and President Bush was wrong.

And, Governor Dean, thank you for pointing that out.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.

CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE.

"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. We'll see you tomorrow.

(APPLAUSE)

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Aired October 20, 2004 - 16:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.

In the CROSSFIRE: The campaign has drawn to a close and it's time for fighting words.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, the president keeps saying how certain he is about things. But you can't just be always certain and frequently wrong. It doesn't make sense.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He looked in the camera the other night, with a straight face, and said, he's not going to raise taxes on anyone who earns less than $200,000 of. The problem with that is, to keep that promise, he would have to break almost all of his other ones.

ANNOUNCER: From the war in Iraq to the battle over taxes and health care, the candidates and their campaign supporters are on the attack.

Today on CROSSFIRE.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.

(APPLAUSE)

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

Terror attacks, Iraq, unemployment, the flu, bad breath, according to John Kerry, George W. Bush is responsible for all of it. The two are slugging it out on the campaign trail today.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Meanwhile, Vice President Dick Cheney says we have to wrap our minds about the notion of an American city being nuked. A respected think tank says he's right because Mr. Bush's war with Iraq has emboldened Iran and North Korea to rush ahead with their nuclear programs.

We'll discuss scare tactics and an increasingly scary campaign in just a moment. But let's get started, as we always do, with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." We know that General Colin Powell warned President Bush about invading Iraq. We know General Hugh Shelton warned him and General Eric Shinseki and General Anthony Zinni and General Brent Scowcroft. He was generally warned. But last night, we learned that even God warned Mr. Bush about casualties, at least according to Reverend Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT ROBERTSON, AUTHOR, "COURTING DISASTER": The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy. And before that, I had deep, in my spirit, I had deep misgivings about going into Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: And how did our publicly pious president respond?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mr. President, I don't know how to tell you this without hurting your feelings, but God likes Pat Robertson more than he does you. I'm sorry. And you know what? He doesn't like Pat Robertson very much. No, I'm just kidding. Satan made me say that, Mr. President. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Here's my question. If God told Pat Robertson that, why didn't anyone tell Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, John Edwards, all these Democrats who voted for the war and never raised the specter of a messy occupation? They never did.

BEGALA: When Pat Robertson thinks you're too disengaged from reality, you have big problems, right? I mean, Reverend Robertson...

(CROSSTALK)

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: What you're trying to do is suck me into a discussion of Pat Robertson's relationship with God and the conversations they have. And I'm not going there.

BEGALA: Right. Well, God was right. And so was Pat Robertson.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: As he often is. BEGALA: Often. Not always. Wait until we get him in the CROSSFIRE. His butt is mine.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: Well, over the past two years, the Kerry campaign has charged George W. Bush and Dick Cheney of everything from being soft on Osama to giving people the flu.

At times, Kerry has all but called his opponents evil. And it still hasn't worked. Bush remains ahead in the polls. So the Kerry people are trying a new tact, slamming the spouses. Just like week, Elizabeth Edwards, wife of Senator John Edwards, accused Lynne Cheney of being a bad mother to her gay daughter. It was a new low in campaign politics, but it was not the last.

In today's "USA Today," Teresa Heinz Kerry goes after Laura Bush for the sin of being a housewife -- quote -- "I don't know that she's ever had a real job," sniffs the woman whose private jet whisks her to one of her many weekend estates. A hard worker, she is. This afternoon, Heinz Kerry issued a correction, admitting that Laura Bush was once employed as a librarian and a schoolteacher. But she made no mention of the many years Mrs. Bush spent raising her two daughters. That apparently does not qualify as a real job to the Kerry campaign.

BEGALA: Wait a minute. Teresa Heinz Kerry did a great job and a real job raising her children, as Mrs. Bush did raising hers. Thank God neither campaign is stooping to the hate-filled tactics that were used against Hillary Clinton. Maybe people are beginning to learn. But both Mrs. Bush is a wonderful person and Mrs. Heinz Kerry is a wonderful person.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Why don't we just stop bashing the wives?

CARLSON: Then why are they doing it? Why did Mrs. Edwards attack Lynne Cheney? That was disgusting. Even you won't defend that.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Why in the world is Teresa weighing in on Mrs. Bush's jobs?

BEGALA: It's nothing compared to what the wingers did to my friend Hillary Clinton.

CARLSON: But the candidates didn't do it. That's the difference.

BEGALA: Oh, please. Everybody did.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Bob Dole never attacked Hillary Clinton. (CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: That's true.

BEGALA: Well, our friend Pat Buchanan certainly did, gave a whole speech. Well, we'll get back to that in a minute.

But, on the campaign trail, President Bush likes to portray himself as a friend of the veteran, except, of course, veterans like John McCain or Max Cleland or Al Gore or John Kerry, other veterans, those who aren't running against him. Those are the ones he loves. In last week's debate, in fact, he made this boast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue to do so during the next four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: A new study from Public Citizen and Harvard University says nearly a quarter million veterans have lost their health care under President Bush. One of the study's authors, Dr. David Himmelstein of Harvard, says -- quote -- "This administration professes great concern for veterans, but it's all talk and no action. Our president," Dr. Himmelstein continues, "has put troops in harm's way overseas and abandons them and their families once they get home."

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I don't mean to contradict Dr. Himmelstein of Harvard, but a new study came out this week that shows that active duty military personnel, people who are actually serving in Iraq, are going to vote for Bush overwhelmingly, not by 10 points, but by like 30 points, 25 points. That tells you a lot, actually.

BEGALA: But once they get home and become veterans, Bush is going to beat them like a

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... mule. No, Bush has abused our veterans. He has been savage to those veterans.

CARLSON: Really?

If that's so, if that's so, then why do our active duty personnel support him so strongly?

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Well, first off, we have to wait and see how they vote. And you may be surprised.

CARLSON: I would be surprised if he lost that vote. Well, earlier this month, the Sinclair Broadcasting Company announced plans to run a documentary on John Kerry's wartime service in Vietnam. The film includes interviews with 17 former prisoners of war who say that Kerry's testimony before the 1971 congressional inquiry in which he called American G.I.s war criminals made their captivity in North Vietnam much more difficult. It's a legitimate point of view. It's potentially important. You're likely not to see it ever.

Sinclair announced yesterday that it will not air the documentary in full. Why? Because Democrats in the Congress, none of whom had actually seen the film, decided it should not be shown. It should not be allowed to be shown. As "The Washington Post" put it -- quote -- "Democrats have complained to three federal agencies about the special, noting that Sinclair's owners have contributed heavily to President Bush and the Republican Party."

In other words, a television company is run by people who have, gasp, conservative political beliefs. Therefore, you should not be allowed to see their documentary. That literally is the justification. Here's my question. Didn't liberals used to stand up for the First Amendment? Where are they now?

BEGALA: Well, first off, this was largely engineered by a terrific group, an independent group called Media Matters For America, a progressive group that monitors the media. There was no government action here.

CARLSON: It's a joke.

BEGALA: This was public pressure and a company responding to public pressure.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: The government didn't take any action at all, none.

CARLSON: That is a complete mischaracterization. You had almost 20 Democrats in the United States Senate complaining...

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Taking what action?

CARLSON: Complaining to three federal agencies which regulate...

BEGALA: Which took no steps. The government took no actions.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Look, I shared your view that the FCC should not take action. You were right about that.

CARLSON: Then why did they try to get the FCC to take...

BEGALA: But this was.. (CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... and political pressure.

CARLSON: That's just not true.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Which is what they've caved into. Thank God they did. Good for Media Matters For America.

CARLSON: Media Matters and David Brock had nothing to do with it.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: They don't know anything about journalism.

BEGALA: Well, President Bush and Senator John Kerry were both in Iowa today. Mr. Bush slammed Senator Kerry, calling him a big taxer. Senator Kerry, meanwhile, slammed back, saying the president's conduct in the war in Iraq was a profound diversion from the war on terror. We'll hear from both sides slamming each other in just a moment.

And he's going for a scream, but now Howard Dean's turning up the volume for fun and profit. We will show you Dean scream two later in the CROSSFIRE. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Both President Bush and Senator John Kerry were stumping in Iowa today. Senator Kerry focused on the mess in Iraq, while President Bush focused on the mess here at home. So, the question is, which country has President Bush done more damage to? We'll debate that today in the CROSSFIRE with Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia and Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland.

It's good to see you. Thanks for being here.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, thanks...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... for joining us.

I'm confused, and I hope you can clear this up for me. John Kerry made the case today, as he has before, that the occupation of Iraq, the war in Iraq, is not the front line in the war on terror. That's fine. Given that he believes that, why is he simultaneously arguing that we need to keep 130,000 troops there?

REP. ALBERT WYNN (D), MARYLAND: Well, I think we all understand that we have to remain.

George Bush got us into this mess. We can't cut and run. I think John Kerry is very responsible when he says, what we need to do is do this in a better way, more intelligent way, not make the mistakes that George Bush continues to make. So, yes, we're going to stay there. But John Kerry is saying, he can do it better. He can get Iraqis trained quicker. He can get more international cooperation. And, on that basis, we can handle this issue more successfully.

CARLSON: But...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I've heard the talking points. Don't cut and run, whatever that means. But if what John Kerry...

WYNN: They're Republican talking points.

CARLSON: That is a Republican talking point, actually. That's right. And it's been stolen, as so many have, by John Kerry.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: But if that's true, that Iraq is not the front line in the war on terror, we don't have much time. OK? Our military is finite. There are a lot of troops there. We need them to be on the actual front line of terror. Why isn't John Kerry saying what he must truly think, if he believes in the first point, that we need to take those troops right now and redeploy them to where the terrorists really are? The makes sense.

WYNN: I don't think he said that. What he said is, George Bush should have gone after Osama bin Laden when he had the chance.

That was the first front in the war on terror. He hasn't done that. Osama bin Laden is still at large. We haven't really had a success there. But he's not in any form or fashion saying, we're going to pull out or cut and run.

CARLSON: Well, he should. He should, because it makes sense. (CROSSTALK)

WYNN: Well, we're there. We're going to have to clean up George Bush's mess.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, first, good to see you again.

REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: Good to be back.

BEGALA: Let me play you a piece of videotape actually from Senator Kerry today. He had a very tough speech on the topic that Tucker suggested. Let him speak for himself. Here's John Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: The president's failures in Iraq, my friends, have made us, as Admiral Stansfield Turner just said, have made us weaker, not stronger in the war on terrorism. That is the hard truth that America needs to consider in these next days. The president refuses to acknowledge it. But terrorism experts around the world do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Well, John Kerry is right. Hasn't the president's war in Iraq made us weaker in the face of the terrorist threat?

DAVIS: Well, I don't think so.

Frankly, we're taking the war there, instead of waiting defensively for them to attack here. You have every jihad group in the Middle East pouring in to go after Americans there, as opposed to coming here. We're on offense.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Our failure has been manifest that it's actually a success now.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That we've so screwed this up, right, so we're going to fight them there. It doesn't matter which there. We were fighting them in Afghanistan, where they actually were. Now they're migrating to Iraq and that's a success?

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: This is a guy that was paying $25,000 per suicide bomber. He was subsidizing suicide bombers in Israel. He was exporting terror from there. Wasn't the only country doing it, but he's in part and parcel of terrorist influence throughout the world.

BEGALA: Senator Kerry said that terrorism experts agree with him. And, you know, politicians use hyperbole.

(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: But there's a story in "The Financial Times' today that suggests maybe Kerry's on to something.

Let me read you "The Times"' report, "Financial Times." "The London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies found in its annual assessment of global security threats that the U.S.' ever deeper involvement in Iraq had emboldened Iran and North Korea to withstand Western pressure to give up their nuclear ambitions.

That's a good example of real enemies in Iran and North Korea trying to build nuclear weapons because of President Bush's war in Iraq, right?

DAVIS: Actually, they were building it before this president came to office. We thought we had an agreement before. North Korea's been working on this for years. And Iran was -- it's the same thing. The president called them the axis of evil.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That's wrong, that the Bush war in Iraq has not emboldened our enemies...

(CROSSTALK)

DAVIS: Well, all I'm saying is they were doing this before President Bush came to office. And I think, if anything, the president's activity in Iraq ought to make them a little more nervous that we're just not going to sit back and wait for them to hit us.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, one of Senator Kerry's key arguments is that once Bush is gone, the very, very icky Bush, with his Texan accent, our European allies, the chocolate-producing nations, will want to just...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... right into Iraq and fill the void left by our retreating troops. Not true.

I want to read you a quote from Dominique Moisi from the French Institute For International Relations, who has this to say: "Do not expect miracles from a Kerry victory. It's not as if you elect Kerry and suddenly France decides it will rush troops to Iraq. Countries that supported the war are leaving. Countries that opposed it will not get in." Now, this is from the French. This is a key Kerry constituency. No one supports Kerry like the French. And even they are skeptical of his claims. What does that tell you?

WYNN: It tells you that you're really mining this French angle. Look...

CARLSON: I love the French angle. I'll admit it. I'll admit it, yes.

WYNN: I know that. I know that. But the fact of the matter is, the problem with the Bush administration is arrogance, hubris. That is the big problem we have in the international community. When we remove President Bush, I think America will be seen in a better light. We're not going to have instantaneous response, but I think we will be in a position to negotiate and bring people, including the French, to the table.

He's going to work with NATO and say, we need more NATO cooperation. And I think he will be in a better position. This cowboy mentality that George Bush has brought to international affairs is just not working. It's offended people, so they have no real motivation. Kerry says also, look, we're going to share the reconstruction, not just Halliburton. Maybe we'll bring in some other countries. That would also provide an incentive for countries to participate. It's a reasoned approach.

CARLSON: And yet, not all Europeans buy that.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: It turns out they're not that dumb. They've been around a long time. And Kerry brings his own baggage. Bush may be seen as arrogant, but Kerry is seen as a flip-flopper, even abroad.

This from the Italian defense minister, who told "The Boston Globe" -- and I'm quoting now -- "The only thing that worries me about Kerry is that the man appears to change opinions with a certain ease."

Now, if the Italians are saying you lack resolve, problematic.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: Well, you've gone now from the French to the Italians.

CARLSON: Well, look, I'm going to all the interest groups that support Kerry here, all of Western Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: The fact remains that resolve is no substitute for competence. And what we're seeing is gross incompetence on the part of the Bush administration.

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: What John Kerry will bring to the table I think is a more competent approach. And they'll respond, I think.

BEGALA: Let me take you to a higher authority. We've quoted the British, as I just did.

DAVIS: Right.

BEGALA: Tucker, with an impeccable accent, quoted Madam Moisi or whatever she was from France and now...

CARLSON: It was a man, Dominique Moisi.

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: Whatever. It's hard to tell sometimes. And now some guy from the right-wing Berlusconi government in Italy. Let me go to a higher authority.

The lord God almighty has weighed in via his vehicle. Pat Robertson gave a remarkable interview last night to Paula Zahn here on CNN. Here's Reverend Robertson relaying his conversations first God to Robertson, then Robertson to Bush. Here's Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I warned him about this war. I had deep misgivings about this war, deep misgivings. And I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be. And so, it was messy. The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mike McCurry, the spokesman for John Kerry, posits this question.

DAVIS: I guess with friends like that...

BEGALA: Is Pat Robertson lying?

DAVIS: I wasn't there. I have no idea.

BEGALA: Well, who do you believe?

DAVIS: I believe the president. I think the president's got a better reputation in terms of dealing with us on...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: But Bush hasn't denied this. I'm just curious.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: You hear Pat Robertson saying I warned Bush. Set God aside. he says, I warned Bush, and Bush said, we're not going to have any casualties. Do you think he's lying about that?

DAVIS: I think a lot of people warned the president of what the pitfalls would be of going into Iraq. It was part and parcel of the debates in Congress. I think a lot of us expressed concern about where it could go. And I'm sure he was aware of it when he made the decision.

CARLSON: All right, we'll be right back.

Next in "Rapid Fire," you won't believe who's been called on to help John Kerry. You won't believe whose hometown newspaper says, no way, don't vote for him for president.

And are members of Congress getting preferential treatment when they come to get flu shots? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Coming up at the top of the hour, for ordinary Americans, flu shots are hard to come by. Are members of the United States Congress getting special treatment, though?

A commuter plane crashes on its approach to a Missouri airport. Eight people are dead, and the toll may rise.

And did President Bush really expect the U.S. to win the Iraq war without sustaining any casualties? That's what the Reverend Pat Robertson says. Now there's an official response from the White House.

All those stories, much more, coming up on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

Now back to CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions quicker than Senator Kerry can blame the president for the common cold.

Joining us today are Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland and Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia.

BEGALA: If not the cold, let me blame the president for the flu vaccines.

Congressmen apparently get their own flu shots, even if they're not at risk. Isn't that a good argument that Kerry is right, that the American people should be able to get the same health plan that you congressmen get?

DAVIS: They should be able to get it, but they told me you had to be 65 to get the flu shots in the physician's office. And they had to meet the same criteria.

So, I think that's what we've tried to use on Capitol Hill. We ought to be setting the example. And we ought to be able to have the large pools available that we have under FEHBP and create those. Unfortunately, some of it has been held up by filibusters in the Senate as we try to -- by the Democrats. Everybody recognizes that the market mechanisms that work so well for the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan ought to be duplicated at the federal level. But we've been unable to get there.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, yesterday, or, rather, today, it turns out "The Boston Herald," John Kerry's hometown newspaper, which says he's done actually a pretty good job serving the state, they say nice things about him, say that he is the wrong man. They endorsed President Bush. That's really like your wife coming out and endorsing your opponent, isn't it?

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: No fair.

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: There's a back-story to that.

CARLSON: Oh, not you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that at all. I mean one's wife.

WYNN: One's wife.

Well, let me just say this. I know there's a "Lone Star Texas Iconoclast." I think that what the paper is called out of Crawford, Texas, that is endorsing Kerry. So I think the papers are probably switching positions. It breaks about even.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, yes or no, did President Bush do a good job of planning for post-Saddam Iraq?

DAVIS: In retrospect, I think they underestimated what the post- threat would be. They probably -- I think that's fair to say. I think we all recognize that.

BEGALA: An honest man.

CARLSON: All right. We are completely out of time.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, Congressman Davis, thank you both very much.

DAVIS: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: We appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, he screamed his way out of the presidential race. Now Howard Dean has screamed his way back to in to an endorsement deal. We'll tell you who is buying his pitch right after this. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: ... South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico. We're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARLSON: Well, he's not running for president any longer, unfortunately, but, yes, ladies and gentlemen, he still has a great set of lungs.

Howard Dean, who derailed his bid for the Democratic nomination by barking at people in public, is putting his Internet savvy to good use. He is now a pitch man for Yahoo!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

DEAN: Yahoo! Local has helped me find all sorts of things, like bookstores in Iowa, and convention centers in Nebraska, and some very interesting diners in Illinois!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: That's pretty good.

BEGALA: Good for Howard Dean.

CARLSON: I always liked Howard Dean, not just for the comedic value, but I thought that there was something kind of charming about Howard Dean in his unfetteredness. And...

BEGALA: I will say, he gave my party back its spine. He was the first one of serious consequence to speak out against the war. He was right.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: But, even in a nonpartisan way, he can laugh at himself.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: And you know what? Somebody who can laugh at himself is somebody I admire.

CARLSON: But you've got to admit, that the Democratic Party took him seriously says something a little embarrassing about the party, honestly.

BEGALA: No. He was right about the war, and President Bush was wrong.

And, Governor Dean, thank you for pointing that out.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.

CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE.

"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. We'll see you tomorrow.

(APPLAUSE)

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(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.

In the CROSSFIRE: The campaign has drawn to a close and it's time for fighting words.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You know, the president keeps saying how certain he is about things. But you can't just be always certain and frequently wrong. It doesn't make sense.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He looked in the camera the other night, with a straight face, and said, he's not going to raise taxes on anyone who earns less than $200,000 of. The problem with that is, to keep that promise, he would have to break almost all of his other ones.

ANNOUNCER: From the war in Iraq to the battle over taxes and health care, the candidates and their campaign supporters are on the attack.

Today on CROSSFIRE.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Tucker Carlson.

(APPLAUSE)

TUCKER CARLSON, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.

Terror attacks, Iraq, unemployment, the flu, bad breath, according to John Kerry, George W. Bush is responsible for all of it. The two are slugging it out on the campaign trail today.

PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Meanwhile, Vice President Dick Cheney says we have to wrap our minds about the notion of an American city being nuked. A respected think tank says he's right because Mr. Bush's war with Iraq has emboldened Iran and North Korea to rush ahead with their nuclear programs.

We'll discuss scare tactics and an increasingly scary campaign in just a moment. But let's get started, as we always do, with the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."

We know that General Colin Powell warned President Bush about invading Iraq. We know General Hugh Shelton warned him and General Eric Shinseki and General Anthony Zinni and General Brent Scowcroft. He was generally warned. But last night, we learned that even God warned Mr. Bush about casualties, at least according to Reverend Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT ROBERTSON, AUTHOR, "COURTING DISASTER": The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy. And before that, I had deep, in my spirit, I had deep misgivings about going into Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: And how did our publicly pious president respond?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mr. President, I don't know how to tell you this without hurting your feelings, but God likes Pat Robertson more than he does you. I'm sorry. And you know what? He doesn't like Pat Robertson very much. No, I'm just kidding. Satan made me say that, Mr. President. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Here's my question. If God told Pat Robertson that, why didn't anyone tell Hillary Clinton, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, John Edwards, all these Democrats who voted for the war and never raised the specter of a messy occupation? They never did.

BEGALA: When Pat Robertson thinks you're too disengaged from reality, you have big problems, right? I mean, Reverend Robertson...

(CROSSTALK)

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: What you're trying to do is suck me into a discussion of Pat Robertson's relationship with God and the conversations they have. And I'm not going there.

BEGALA: Right. Well, God was right. And so was Pat Robertson.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: As he often is.

BEGALA: Often. Not always. Wait until we get him in the CROSSFIRE. His butt is mine.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: Well, over the past two years, the Kerry campaign has charged George W. Bush and Dick Cheney of everything from being soft on Osama to giving people the flu.

At times, Kerry has all but called his opponents evil. And it still hasn't worked. Bush remains ahead in the polls. So the Kerry people are trying a new tact, slamming the spouses. Just like week, Elizabeth Edwards, wife of Senator John Edwards, accused Lynne Cheney of being a bad mother to her gay daughter. It was a new low in campaign politics, but it was not the last.

In today's "USA Today," Teresa Heinz Kerry goes after Laura Bush for the sin of being a housewife -- quote -- "I don't know that she's ever had a real job," sniffs the woman whose private jet whisks her to one of her many weekend estates. A hard worker, she is. This afternoon, Heinz Kerry issued a correction, admitting that Laura Bush was once employed as a librarian and a schoolteacher. But she made no mention of the many years Mrs. Bush spent raising her two daughters. That apparently does not qualify as a real job to the Kerry campaign. BEGALA: Wait a minute. Teresa Heinz Kerry did a great job and a real job raising her children, as Mrs. Bush did raising hers. Thank God neither campaign is stooping to the hate-filled tactics that were used against Hillary Clinton. Maybe people are beginning to learn. But both Mrs. Bush is a wonderful person and Mrs. Heinz Kerry is a wonderful person.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Why don't we just stop bashing the wives?

CARLSON: Then why are they doing it? Why did Mrs. Edwards attack Lynne Cheney? That was disgusting. Even you won't defend that.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Why in the world is Teresa weighing in on Mrs. Bush's jobs?

BEGALA: It's nothing compared to what the wingers did to my friend Hillary Clinton.

CARLSON: But the candidates didn't do it. That's the difference.

BEGALA: Oh, please. Everybody did.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: Bob Dole never attacked Hillary Clinton.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: That's true.

BEGALA: Well, our friend Pat Buchanan certainly did, gave a whole speech. Well, we'll get back to that in a minute.

But, on the campaign trail, President Bush likes to portray himself as a friend of the veteran, except, of course, veterans like John McCain or Max Cleland or Al Gore or John Kerry, other veterans, those who aren't running against him. Those are the ones he loves. In last week's debate, in fact, he made this boast.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: Veterans are getting very good health care under my administration, and they will continue to do so during the next four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: A new study from Public Citizen and Harvard University says nearly a quarter million veterans have lost their health care under President Bush. One of the study's authors, Dr. David Himmelstein of Harvard, says -- quote -- "This administration professes great concern for veterans, but it's all talk and no action. Our president," Dr. Himmelstein continues, "has put troops in harm's way overseas and abandons them and their families once they get home."

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I don't mean to contradict Dr. Himmelstein of Harvard, but a new study came out this week that shows that active duty military personnel, people who are actually serving in Iraq, are going to vote for Bush overwhelmingly, not by 10 points, but by like 30 points, 25 points. That tells you a lot, actually.

BEGALA: But once they get home and become veterans, Bush is going to beat them like a

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... mule. No, Bush has abused our veterans. He has been savage to those veterans.

CARLSON: Really?

If that's so, if that's so, then why do our active duty personnel support him so strongly?

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Well, first off, we have to wait and see how they vote. And you may be surprised.

CARLSON: I would be surprised if he lost that vote.

Well, earlier this month, the Sinclair Broadcasting Company announced plans to run a documentary on John Kerry's wartime service in Vietnam. The film includes interviews with 17 former prisoners of war who say that Kerry's testimony before the 1971 congressional inquiry in which he called American G.I.s war criminals made their captivity in North Vietnam much more difficult. It's a legitimate point of view. It's potentially important. You're likely not to see it ever.

Sinclair announced yesterday that it will not air the documentary in full. Why? Because Democrats in the Congress, none of whom had actually seen the film, decided it should not be shown. It should not be allowed to be shown. As "The Washington Post" put it -- quote -- "Democrats have complained to three federal agencies about the special, noting that Sinclair's owners have contributed heavily to President Bush and the Republican Party."

In other words, a television company is run by people who have, gasp, conservative political beliefs. Therefore, you should not be allowed to see their documentary. That literally is the justification. Here's my question. Didn't liberals used to stand up for the First Amendment? Where are they now?

BEGALA: Well, first off, this was largely engineered by a terrific group, an independent group called Media Matters For America, a progressive group that monitors the media. There was no government action here.

CARLSON: It's a joke.

BEGALA: This was public pressure and a company responding to public pressure.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: The government didn't take any action at all, none.

CARLSON: That is a complete mischaracterization. You had almost 20 Democrats in the United States Senate complaining...

(BELL RINGING)

BEGALA: Taking what action?

CARLSON: Complaining to three federal agencies which regulate...

BEGALA: Which took no steps. The government took no actions.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Look, I shared your view that the FCC should not take action. You were right about that.

CARLSON: Then why did they try to get the FCC to take...

BEGALA: But this was..

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: ... and political pressure.

CARLSON: That's just not true.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Which is what they've caved into. Thank God they did. Good for Media Matters For America.

CARLSON: Media Matters and David Brock had nothing to do with it.

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: They don't know anything about journalism.

BEGALA: Well, President Bush and Senator John Kerry were both in Iowa today. Mr. Bush slammed Senator Kerry, calling him a big taxer. Senator Kerry, meanwhile, slammed back, saying the president's conduct in the war in Iraq was a profound diversion from the war on terror. We'll hear from both sides slamming each other in just a moment. And he's going for a scream, but now Howard Dean's turning up the volume for fun and profit. We will show you Dean scream two later in the CROSSFIRE. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Both President Bush and Senator John Kerry were stumping in Iowa today. Senator Kerry focused on the mess in Iraq, while President Bush focused on the mess here at home. So, the question is, which country has President Bush done more damage to? We'll debate that today in the CROSSFIRE with Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia and Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland.

It's good to see you. Thanks for being here.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, thanks...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... for joining us.

I'm confused, and I hope you can clear this up for me. John Kerry made the case today, as he has before, that the occupation of Iraq, the war in Iraq, is not the front line in the war on terror. That's fine. Given that he believes that, why is he simultaneously arguing that we need to keep 130,000 troops there?

REP. ALBERT WYNN (D), MARYLAND: Well, I think we all understand that we have to remain.

George Bush got us into this mess. We can't cut and run. I think John Kerry is very responsible when he says, what we need to do is do this in a better way, more intelligent way, not make the mistakes that George Bush continues to make. So, yes, we're going to stay there. But John Kerry is saying, he can do it better. He can get Iraqis trained quicker. He can get more international cooperation. And, on that basis, we can handle this issue more successfully.

CARLSON: But...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: I've heard the talking points. Don't cut and run, whatever that means. But if what John Kerry...

WYNN: They're Republican talking points.

CARLSON: That is a Republican talking point, actually. That's right. And it's been stolen, as so many have, by John Kerry.

(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: But if that's true, that Iraq is not the front line in the war on terror, we don't have much time. OK? Our military is finite. There are a lot of troops there. We need them to be on the actual front line of terror. Why isn't John Kerry saying what he must truly think, if he believes in the first point, that we need to take those troops right now and redeploy them to where the terrorists really are? The makes sense.

WYNN: I don't think he said that. What he said is, George Bush should have gone after Osama bin Laden when he had the chance.

That was the first front in the war on terror. He hasn't done that. Osama bin Laden is still at large. We haven't really had a success there. But he's not in any form or fashion saying, we're going to pull out or cut and run.

CARLSON: Well, he should. He should, because it makes sense.

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: Well, we're there. We're going to have to clean up George Bush's mess.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, first, good to see you again.

REP. TOM DAVIS (R), VIRGINIA: Good to be back.

BEGALA: Let me play you a piece of videotape actually from Senator Kerry today. He had a very tough speech on the topic that Tucker suggested. Let him speak for himself. Here's John Kerry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY: The president's failures in Iraq, my friends, have made us, as Admiral Stansfield Turner just said, have made us weaker, not stronger in the war on terrorism. That is the hard truth that America needs to consider in these next days. The president refuses to acknowledge it. But terrorism experts around the world do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Well, John Kerry is right. Hasn't the president's war in Iraq made us weaker in the face of the terrorist threat?

DAVIS: Well, I don't think so.

Frankly, we're taking the war there, instead of waiting defensively for them to attack here. You have every jihad group in the Middle East pouring in to go after Americans there, as opposed to coming here. We're on offense.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: Our failure has been manifest that it's actually a success now.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That we've so screwed this up, right, so we're going to fight them there. It doesn't matter which there. We were fighting them in Afghanistan, where they actually were. Now they're migrating to Iraq and that's a success?

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: This is a guy that was paying $25,000 per suicide bomber. He was subsidizing suicide bombers in Israel. He was exporting terror from there. Wasn't the only country doing it, but he's in part and parcel of terrorist influence throughout the world.

BEGALA: Senator Kerry said that terrorism experts agree with him. And, you know, politicians use hyperbole.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: But there's a story in "The Financial Times' today that suggests maybe Kerry's on to something.

Let me read you "The Times"' report, "Financial Times." "The London-based International Institute of Strategic Studies found in its annual assessment of global security threats that the U.S.' ever deeper involvement in Iraq had emboldened Iran and North Korea to withstand Western pressure to give up their nuclear ambitions.

That's a good example of real enemies in Iran and North Korea trying to build nuclear weapons because of President Bush's war in Iraq, right?

DAVIS: Actually, they were building it before this president came to office. We thought we had an agreement before. North Korea's been working on this for years. And Iran was -- it's the same thing. The president called them the axis of evil.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: That's wrong, that the Bush war in Iraq has not emboldened our enemies...

(CROSSTALK) DAVIS: Well, all I'm saying is they were doing this before President Bush came to office. And I think, if anything, the president's activity in Iraq ought to make them a little more nervous that we're just not going to sit back and wait for them to hit us.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, one of Senator Kerry's key arguments is that once Bush is gone, the very, very icky Bush, with his Texan accent, our European allies, the chocolate-producing nations, will want to just...

(CROSSTALK)

CARLSON: ... right into Iraq and fill the void left by our retreating troops. Not true.

I want to read you a quote from Dominique Moisi from the French Institute For International Relations, who has this to say: "Do not expect miracles from a Kerry victory. It's not as if you elect Kerry and suddenly France decides it will rush troops to Iraq. Countries that supported the war are leaving. Countries that opposed it will not get in." Now, this is from the French. This is a key Kerry constituency. No one supports Kerry like the French. And even they are skeptical of his claims. What does that tell you?

WYNN: It tells you that you're really mining this French angle. Look...

CARLSON: I love the French angle. I'll admit it. I'll admit it, yes.

WYNN: I know that. I know that.

But the fact of the matter is, the problem with the Bush administration is arrogance, hubris. That is the big problem we have in the international community. When we remove President Bush, I think America will be seen in a better light. We're not going to have instantaneous response, but I think we will be in a position to negotiate and bring people, including the French, to the table.

He's going to work with NATO and say, we need more NATO cooperation. And I think he will be in a better position. This cowboy mentality that George Bush has brought to international affairs is just not working. It's offended people, so they have no real motivation. Kerry says also, look, we're going to share the reconstruction, not just Halliburton. Maybe we'll bring in some other countries. That would also provide an incentive for countries to participate. It's a reasoned approach.

CARLSON: And yet, not all Europeans buy that.

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: It turns out they're not that dumb. They've been around a long time. And Kerry brings his own baggage. Bush may be seen as arrogant, but Kerry is seen as a flip-flopper, even abroad. This from the Italian defense minister, who told "The Boston Globe" -- and I'm quoting now -- "The only thing that worries me about Kerry is that the man appears to change opinions with a certain ease."

Now, if the Italians are saying you lack resolve, problematic.

(LAUGHTER)

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: Well, you've gone now from the French to the Italians.

CARLSON: Well, look, I'm going to all the interest groups that support Kerry here, all of Western Europe.

(CROSSTALK)

WYNN: The fact remains that resolve is no substitute for competence. And what we're seeing is gross incompetence on the part of the Bush administration.

(APPLAUSE)

WYNN: What John Kerry will bring to the table I think is a more competent approach. And they'll respond, I think.

BEGALA: Let me take you to a higher authority. We've quoted the British, as I just did.

DAVIS: Right.

BEGALA: Tucker, with an impeccable accent, quoted Madam Moisi or whatever she was from France and now...

CARLSON: It was a man, Dominique Moisi.

(LAUGHTER)

BEGALA: Whatever. It's hard to tell sometimes. And now some guy from the right-wing Berlusconi government in Italy. Let me go to a higher authority.

The lord God almighty has weighed in via his vehicle. Pat Robertson gave a remarkable interview last night to Paula Zahn here on CNN. Here's Reverend Robertson relaying his conversations first God to Robertson, then Robertson to Bush. Here's Pat Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTSON: I warned him about this war. I had deep misgivings about this war, deep misgivings. And I was trying to say, Mr. President, you better prepare the American people for casualties.

Oh, no, we're not going to have any casualties. Well, I said, it's the way it's going to be. And so, it was messy. The lord told me it was going to be, A, a disaster and, B, messy. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BEGALA: Mike McCurry, the spokesman for John Kerry, posits this question.

DAVIS: I guess with friends like that...

BEGALA: Is Pat Robertson lying?

DAVIS: I wasn't there. I have no idea.

BEGALA: Well, who do you believe?

DAVIS: I believe the president. I think the president's got a better reputation in terms of dealing with us on...

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: But Bush hasn't denied this. I'm just curious.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: You hear Pat Robertson saying I warned Bush. Set God aside. he says, I warned Bush, and Bush said, we're not going to have any casualties. Do you think he's lying about that?

DAVIS: I think a lot of people warned the president of what the pitfalls would be of going into Iraq. It was part and parcel of the debates in Congress. I think a lot of us expressed concern about where it could go. And I'm sure he was aware of it when he made the decision.

CARLSON: All right, we'll be right back.

Next in "Rapid Fire," you won't believe who's been called on to help John Kerry. You won't believe whose hometown newspaper says, no way, don't vote for him for president.

And are members of Congress getting preferential treatment when they come to get flu shots? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after this.

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WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.

Coming up at the top of the hour, for ordinary Americans, flu shots are hard to come by. Are members of the United States Congress getting special treatment, though?

A commuter plane crashes on its approach to a Missouri airport. Eight people are dead, and the toll may rise.

And did President Bush really expect the U.S. to win the Iraq war without sustaining any casualties? That's what the Reverend Pat Robertson says. Now there's an official response from the White House.

All those stories, much more, coming up on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."

Now back to CROSSFIRE.

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CARLSON: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.

Time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions quicker than Senator Kerry can blame the president for the common cold.

Joining us today are Democratic Congressman Albert Wynn of Maryland and Republican Congressman Tom Davis of Virginia.

BEGALA: If not the cold, let me blame the president for the flu vaccines.

Congressmen apparently get their own flu shots, even if they're not at risk. Isn't that a good argument that Kerry is right, that the American people should be able to get the same health plan that you congressmen get?

DAVIS: They should be able to get it, but they told me you had to be 65 to get the flu shots in the physician's office. And they had to meet the same criteria.

So, I think that's what we've tried to use on Capitol Hill. We ought to be setting the example. And we ought to be able to have the large pools available that we have under FEHBP and create those. Unfortunately, some of it has been held up by filibusters in the Senate as we try to -- by the Democrats. Everybody recognizes that the market mechanisms that work so well for the Federal Employees Health Benefit Plan ought to be duplicated at the federal level. But we've been unable to get there.

CARLSON: Now, Congressman Wynn, yesterday, or, rather, today, it turns out "The Boston Herald," John Kerry's hometown newspaper, which says he's done actually a pretty good job serving the state, they say nice things about him, say that he is the wrong man. They endorsed President Bush. That's really like your wife coming out and endorsing your opponent, isn't it?

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: No fair.

(LAUGHTER)

WYNN: There's a back-story to that.

CARLSON: Oh, not you. I'm sorry. I didn't mean that at all. I mean one's wife.

WYNN: One's wife. Well, let me just say this. I know there's a "Lone Star Texas Iconoclast." I think that what the paper is called out of Crawford, Texas, that is endorsing Kerry. So I think the papers are probably switching positions. It breaks about even.

BEGALA: Congressman Davis, yes or no, did President Bush do a good job of planning for post-Saddam Iraq?

DAVIS: In retrospect, I think they underestimated what the post- threat would be. They probably -- I think that's fair to say. I think we all recognize that.

BEGALA: An honest man.

CARLSON: All right. We are completely out of time.

(BELL RINGING)

CARLSON: Congressman Wynn, Congressman Davis, thank you both very much.

DAVIS: Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

(APPLAUSE)

CARLSON: We appreciate it. Thank you.

Well, he screamed his way out of the presidential race. Now Howard Dean has screamed his way back to in to an endorsement deal. We'll tell you who is buying his pitch right after this.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: ... South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico. We're going to California and Texas and New York. And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan! And then we're going to Washington, D.C., to take back the White House. Yes!

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CARLSON: Well, he's not running for president any longer, unfortunately, but, yes, ladies and gentlemen, he still has a great set of lungs.

Howard Dean, who derailed his bid for the Democratic nomination by barking at people in public, is putting his Internet savvy to good use. He is now a pitch man for Yahoo!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

DEAN: Yahoo! Local has helped me find all sorts of things, like bookstores in Iowa, and convention centers in Nebraska, and some very interesting diners in Illinois!

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(LAUGHTER)

CARLSON: That's pretty good.

BEGALA: Good for Howard Dean.

CARLSON: I always liked Howard Dean, not just for the comedic value, but I thought that there was something kind of charming about Howard Dean in his unfetteredness. And...

BEGALA: I will say, he gave my party back its spine. He was the first one of serious consequence to speak out against the war. He was right.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: But, even in a nonpartisan way, he can laugh at himself.

(CROSSTALK)

BEGALA: And you know what? Somebody who can laugh at himself is somebody I admire.

CARLSON: But you've got to admit, that the Democratic Party took him seriously says something a little embarrassing about the party, honestly.

BEGALA: No. He was right about the war, and President Bush was wrong.

And, Governor Dean, thank you for pointing that out.

(APPLAUSE)

BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.

CARLSON: And from the right, I'm Tucker Carlson. Join us again tomorrow for yet more CROSSFIRE.

"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. We'll see you tomorrow.

(APPLAUSE)

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