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CNN Crossfire
Bill Clinton Returns
Aired October 25, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: He's back. With only eight days to go, former President Bill Clinton hits the campaign trail.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: From time to time, I have been called to comeback kid. In eight days, John Kerry is going make America the comeback country.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Armed Services Committee Will the comeback kid's latest return rally voters for Kerry?
President Bush is working to sway the swing vote.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people of the United States will choose the leader of the free world in the middle of a global war. The choice is not only between two candidates. It is between two directions in the conduct of the war on terror.
ANNOUNCER: And the health of the high court. Will Chief Justice Rehnquist's cancer play a role in the race for the White House?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
With only eight days to go until the election, campaign 2004 is red hot. John Kerry today hammered President Bush for failing to secure 380 tons of explosives in Iraq. The chief justice of the Supreme Court announced he has cancer. And the comeback kid came back to stump for John Kerry.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: With Bill Clinton back to scare Republicans, it is going to push a lot of conservatives into the voting booth to make sure that President Bush gets reelected.
First, though, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
There was an exciting, charismatic Democrat campaigning in the presidential race today. No, John Kerry did not get a charisma transplant. It was Bill Clinton, off his sick bed, campaigning in Philadelphia. But what was he doing in the City of Brotherly Love, a Kerry stronghold? The real problem when you see Kerry and Clinton side by side, you notice how weak and unlikable is the current Democratic nominee. Does Clinton suck up all the political oxygen?
What I would like to see is just one undecided voter who can't make up his mind between Bush and Kerry, but will do whatever Bill Clinton wants. Might that imaginary voter already be in John Kerry's pocket?
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, I don't know. I thought the president was wonderful today. You know how much I love him. But I thought he was wonderful, because he framed up the choice.
If you think it's a good idea to ship jobs overseas and watch a deficit go up, you need to support President Bush, because those have been his policies. Now, John Kerry, he has got different ideas, more like Clinton's ideas, where we actually generated jobs and balanced the budget. So I like framing up the choice the way Bill Clinton did today.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know what it's like? It's like we were going to have a muscle show and we have Arnold Schwarzenegger against me, see. I mean, how bad would I look?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: You're selling President Bush short.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: He's not quite that lame compared to President Bush.
NOVAK: I'm talking about John Kerry.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: OK.
Well, on a much more serious note, less than one pound of HMX or RDX explosives brought down Flight 103 from Pan Am a few years ago. One ton of the stuff can set off a nuclear bomb. And 380 tons are missing from a site in Iraq which the Bush administration failed to secure. Now, that's enough explosives to fill 40 giant 18-wheelers and it is gone, presumably in the hands of terrorists.
Now, the Bush White House has known about this for weeks, but never told the American people or our troops on the ground in Iraq. "The New York Times" broke the story this morning, quoting the International Atomic Energy Agency as calling it -- quote -- "the greatest explosives bonanza in history" -- unquote. U.S. watchdogs had warned the Bush administration about the site, but their warnings were apparently ignored. The site was not secured because we didn't have enough troops on the ground.
And we didn't have enough troops because President Bush ignored the generals who told him he would need more troops to secure the country. Shame on Mr. Bush.
NOVAK: Paul, let me try to put this in perspective. You're talking about 380 tons. So far, we have secured and destroyed 243,000 tons of weapons and explosives in Iraq. In addition, there's another 163,000 tons of weapons and explosives that have been secured and awaiting destruction.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: And, by the way, I thought there weren't any weapons in Iraq? I thought there...
BEGALA: This was under lock and key from the U.N. They were no threat to us, until Mr. Bush threw away the key and lock and now the bad guys have it.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: John Kerry, in another attempt to make himself candidate of the world, claims he met for hours with all members of the U.N. Security Council just before he voted to go to war. "The Washington Times" reports today there was no such meeting and Kerry spoke to just a few Security Council members.
I did my own reporting and talked to Rich Williamson, who was U.S. ambassador at the U.N. for special political affairs. He believes Senator Kerry had to be talking about a U.N. Association meeting, not a Security Council meeting, of about 15 people, including about five U.N. delegates, including Ambassador Williamson.
This suggests that Senator Kerry is low on accuracy and high on imagination.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: This is how low we have gotten now? OK, so, apparently, John Kerry met with the major members of the Security Council, but not with Bulgaria or Colombia.
NOVAK: He said he met with all of them. He said he met with all of them. BEGALA: Please. You know what? Let's contrast that with President Bush, who said there were weapons, and there weren't, who said there were ties to al Qaeda, and there weren't, who said there was a threat to America, and there wasn't.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Are we really going to make this about who told the truth?
NOVAK: We're talking about Senator Kerry right now. He said he met with all of them. And he has acted like it was a big meeting with them. It was a U.S. Association meeting. That's like a Rotary Club meeting.
(APPLAUSE)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: First off, you're putting a lot of credence in a very sketchy report. Well, again, we'll debate this more later.
Today's "Wall Street Journal" reports that the Bush administration canceled a plan to kill Iraqi terrorist Abu Musab al- Zarqawi before the invasion of Iraq. General John M. Keane, then the Army's vice chief of staff, called Zarqawi's camp -- quote -- "one of the best targets we ever had" -- unquote.
Former Bush national security aide Lisa Gordon-Hagerty tells "The Journal" there was intelligence that al Zarqawi was in the camp and when Zarqawi began murdering American troops, she asked -- quote -- "Why didn't we get that SOB when we could?" -- unquote. Good question, Lisa. The Bush administration says one factor was -- quote -- "the president's decision to engage the international community on Iraq" -- unquote.
So, if we could kill the No. 1 terrorist in Iraq without invading, there would be less support for Mr. Bush's invasion of Iraq. And so Zarqawi is alive. Scores of Americans are dead, some of them beheaded. Think about that the next time Mr. Bush lectures you about how strong he is.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know, Paul, I don't know if you have a memory problem, but we have talked about the Zarqawi thing before.
BEGALA: Yes, we have.
NOVAK: And it is an old story. And I had a dream last night that some anti-Bush ex-bureaucrat was going to bring this up and I am going to be sitting across from you and you're going to be talking about it. And I was right.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Dreams come true sometimes.
BEGALA: General John Keane, a three-star general?
NOVAK: I'm talking about this little gal from the NSC.
BEGALA: Well, how about General Keane? Well, she worked for President Bush.
NOVAK: OK.
The Democrats are getting desperate. Today, the Kerry campaign pulled Bill Clinton out of his sickbed to offer a few words of encouragement and a little charisma. Will it make any difference to the voters?
And, later, why is Danny DeVito moving from Taxi dispatcher to minivan chauffeur? We'll tell you DeVito and his fellow left-wing stars are getting behind the wheel later on CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: They don't call him the comeback kid for nothing. Bill Clinton was back on the campaign trail today, just weeks after undergoing quadruple bypass surgery.
A huge crowd turned out in Philadelphia today to see my former boss and your former president at a rally with the future president, at least in my opinion. Meanwhile, 380 tons of explosives are missing in Iraq. And the chief justice of the United States is in the hospital battling cancer.
Today, in the CROSSFIRE to debate all of the late-breaking news from the campaign trail, Bob Walker, former Republican congressman -- he is from Pennsylvania -- and Kerry foreign policy adviser Wendy Sherman.
Good to see you both.
(APPLAUSE)
WENDY SHERMAN, KERRY FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: Good to see you.
(APPLAUSE)
BOB WALKER (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Nice to see you.
NOVAK: Ambassador Sherman, Bill Clinton, your former boss, was out there in Philadelphia. And there was some drab-looking guy with a long face next to him. I don't know who that was. But, anyway...
SHERMAN: The taller guy.
NOVAK: Yes.
Representative -- Congressman Elijah Cummings of Maryland, who is a very smart guy, had a very good comment. And let's read it to you. He said: "I think that Kerry's biggest problem is that he's not Clinton. A lot of people are expecting a Bill Clinton, and that is not who Kerry is. But, on the other hand, his heart is right."
But isn't that the problem? You can't make John Kerry into Bill Clinton, no matter how close you put the two together?
SHERMAN: I think everybody has great regard for President Clinton. But we're now in this election at this time dealing with an incredibly tough set of threats. We're dealing with a time when the president has said he's the best to protect the lives of the American people.
And yet 380 tons, 760,000 pounds of explosives, are now wandering around the world, because this president did not protect our troops from those explosives, as was pointed out at the beginning of your program. So that's what we have to do. And John Kerry is a guy who knows how to keep us safe.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I would have sworn -- I would have sworn I asked you about Clinton. So you are saying Clinton is pretty much irrelevant. This is just fun and games, right?
SHERMAN: I'm saying that there's great regard for Bill Clinton, that John Kerry wants to go back to the time where we don't have deficits, where we have a balanced budget, where we have jobs. Those are the things that Bill Clinton represents to this country.
And John Kerry is going to get us back to that time where we aren't outsourcing our jobs, where we have health care for people, and where our country is safe and we're protected from the terrorists abroad.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Bob Walker, let me bring you into this. I suspect you'll have a slightly different take, but let me...
WALKER: I probably have a different point of view than that. That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... piece of data, though. Back in June, before he got sick, and you would expect a sympathy surge, before his heart surgery months ago, President Clinton's job approval rating was 62. President Bush's today is 48. And let me suggest why.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: Well, it depends on your poll. The president has moved up in the polls today. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's at 48 in all of them. If you average all the national polls and if you take Clinton...
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: Fifty-two in the polls today.
NOVAK: I don't think 48 is the average.
WALKER: No, 52 in the polls today.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: You know what? We'll do a whole show about these idiot polls. OK?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The point is, if it is 52, it doesn't matter.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Clinton is still 10 points more popular, at least. And I think here's why. Here is Bill Clinton on the campaign trail today framing up the choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Now, one of Clinton's laws of politics is this. If one candidate is trying to scare you and the other one is try get you to think, if one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: So even if you're right and Bush is at 52, that's why Clinton is 10 points more popular than Bush, because he's about hope and President Bush is about fear. Isn't that the problem he's got?
WALKER: Well, I listen to that and wonder whether or not he's talking about John Kerry, who has been trying to scare people about the draft and about Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
WALKER: Those have been the substance of the Kerry campaign. And so I'm not so certain exactly who President Clinton was referring to there. BEGALA: Well, how do you account for the fact that long before his illness, President Clinton was so much more popular than President Bush?
WALKER: Well, I think that what you have is people looking back fondly on the fact that the economy was booming in the mid-'90s.
However, what we have not yet sorted out is how it was who moving into recession by the time his presidency ended.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: So people are dumb?
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: No, no. People aren't dumb.
But the fact is that Bill Clinton coming out today and campaigning for John Kerry will help bring out the base of the Democratic Party. It doesn't help him at all bring in Republicans or independents. The president is doing very well with independent votes right now. He's up about 12 points among independent voters.
NOVAK: Bob, I would say that people are pretty dumb. But that's another matter.
(LAUGHTER)
WALKER: I wouldn't say that.
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: I think people aren't dumb about the deficit and the jobs that we're facing in this country at all.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Wendy Sherman, Chief Justice Rehnquist is in the hospital with cancer. And our prayers are all with him.
SHERMAN: Absolutely.
NOVAK: But it does raise the question that this next president, whoever is elected, may have not only a chief justice to name, but maybe three other judges, really shape the court for a generation.
And John Kerry has been very, very unequivocal in saying he would have a litmus test for judges. I'm going to just give you one quote. I can name a whole bunch of them, but this is one of the clearest. On March 2, he said: "I am proud that I am the only presidential candidate to pledge that I will support only pro-choice judges to the Supreme Court."
What's he going to do, give a third-degree when they get up there and say how will you vote on this case? Are you pro-choice? SHERMAN: No. What John Kerry has said and said in the debate is he believes in judges coming onto the bench and on to the Supreme Court who believe in the Constitution. And right now, the right to privacy is protected in the Constitution. And he wants judges who are going to stand up for the Constitution of the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. He said: I want pro-choice judges.
I'm not making that up. That's what he said.
SHERMAN: That is -- that is based -- he said it because it is based on privacy, which is protected by the Constitution.
NOVAK: So that's a litmus test.
SHERMAN: And I want privacy protected in my life. I will bet you do, too.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Go ahead.
WALKER: What it means is that no practicing Catholic can be considered for the Supreme Court under a Kerry presidency.
SHERMAN: That's not true at all. John Kerry is a practicing Catholic.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: The fact is no practicing Catholic can be a Supreme Court justice under...
SHERMAN: That's not true, Bob.
WALKER: That's absolutely true.
SHERMAN: That's absolutely not true at all. That's absolutely not true at all.
WALKER: That's what the litmus test -- that's what the litmus test is all about.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: And it's absolutely a litmus test.
SHERMAN: Absolutely not true at all.
WALKER: He has said it -- he has said it over and over again. It is a litmus test that he is going to put on anybody that he considers for the Supreme Court.
SHERMAN: No.
What the president of the United States has been moving is a litmus test on ideology, ideology in every part of our government, ideology for how we prosecute war, ideology for what we choose to do and not do. What Paul brought up at the beginning of the show about us not going after al Zarqawi before the Iraq war because we were afraid it was going to take away the rationale, so we allowed al Zarqawi to train terrorists, to take over the insurgency, that's an ideology that is not protecting lives.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Why did we not kill Zarqawi?
WALKER: Because it came at the time that we were trying to do what all of you had said was necessary, and that was dealing with the international community. An attack inside of Iraq during a time when you were trying to appeal to the international community would have set off a storm of criticism for the administration.
SHERMAN: We could have gone to the international community.
WALKER: No. The fact is he was attempting to do inside the U.N...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Come on. With a straight face, you're going to tell me that President Bush didn't kill a terrorist who he had in his crosshairs because he was worried about France?
NOVAK: He wasn't in the crosshairs.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: He wasn't in the crosshairs. He was inside of Iraq. He was inside of Iraq, and that would have been regarded as an attack on Iraq before the international community had had its say.
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: President Bush said that he would -- President Bush said he would use a preemptive attack against anyone who was a terrorist who was coming after the United States, and al Zarqawi was coming after us. And we should have taken him out.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: And John Kerry has criticized him constantly for using preemption.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: And yet preemption has taken out five of the seven nations that threatened us as terrorist nations before President Bush became president.
SHERMAN: John Kerry has said that he would always take action to defend this country.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: I don't think that's the case. The fact is that John Kerry has not supported intelligence budgets. He's been in fact been...
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
(APPLAUSE)
SHERMAN: You know that that intelligent budget vote is bogus.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: No, it's not bogus.
SHERMAN: It's absolutely bogus.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break.
BEGALA: Hang on.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break.
And next, in "Rapid Fire," will a President Kerry be able to lead French and German troops into Iraq?
And just ahead, will Chief Justice Rehnquist be able to overcome cancer and remain on the Supreme Court? Wolf Blitzer has the latest on that story.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from New York.
Coming up at the top of the hour, the chief justice of the United States, William Rehnquist has been diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Aides say he had a tracheotomy on Saturday, but they also say he plans to be back on the bench next week. Bouncing back from heart surgery, Bill Clinton goes on the campaign trail with John Kerry. Is the former president risking his health? We'll speak with a cardiologist.
Three-hundred eighty tons of powerful conventional explosives are missing from a storage facility near Baghdad. The White House says President Bush wants to determine what went wrong. We'll ask Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright. They will join us together.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we get questions and answers faster than it takes John Kerry to flip-flop -- well, maybe not that fast. Joining us, Wendy Sherman, foreign policy adviser for the Kerry campaign, former official in the State Department in the Clinton administration, and from Pennsylvania, Congressman -- former Republican Congressman Bob Walker.
BEGALA: Bob, what does it say about the president's planning that he secured the oil fields in Iraq, but not 380 tons of dangerous weapons?
WALKER: Well, the fact is that there are 600,000 tons there. And the...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So you win some, you lose some? No big deal?
(LAUGHTER)
WALKER: No, no. The fact is -- no, no. The fact is that what it shows is the fact that we do not have the kind of U.N. inspections process that we should have.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: The real article -- the article showed that the U.N. weapons process really failed.
NOVAK: Wendy Sherman, do you see the commander in chief, John Kerry, if he is elected, leading those German and French troops into Iraq?
SHERMAN: I see the commander in chief getting countries around the world to contribute.
NOVAK: French and German.
SHERMAN: Whether it is donors, protecting the borders, election monitors, putting up some of the money, so that the U.S. taxpayers aren't covering all the costs and it is not all our troops.
NOVAK: French and German?
SHERMAN: That's what is important.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: All right, Congressman Walker, new report out today. I just saw Lou Dobbs announcing this on our air. Investor confidence is down. And 60 percent of those surveyed are concerned about outsourcing. Was it a mistake for our president to praise outsourcing in his economic report?
WALKER: Well, I don't he has ever praised outsourcing.
What he does is says that you have to be global companies in order to survive in a global economy. And this president is attempting to make certain that American workers are the best workers in a global economy.
NOVAK: Wendy Sherman, John Kerry used the D word again, the draft. Can you, as a responsible person, finally say that is a canard? There's not going to be a draft.
SHERMAN: What John Kerry has said is that he doesn't know how George Bush, under current circumstances, with every single one of our military, Reserves and all of our officers, either coming or going -- there's a stop-loss effort. There's, in essence, a back-door draft today.
NOVAK: So draft or not?
(BELL RINGING)
SHERMAN: There's a back-door draft today.
NOVAK: Draft or no draft?
SHERMAN: I don't know how the president gets the job done the way he is going. I don't get it.
BEGALA: That will have to be the last word.
Wendy Sherman from the Kerry campaign, Bob Walker, former congressman from Pennsylvania, thank you both very much.
WALKER: Thanks.
NOVAK: All right, thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, you know what? In Hollywood, most of the stars have drivers for their limos. So, next, we'll tell you about a few stars who are doing the driving themselves.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: If you saw a mini guy in a minivan in Miami Beach last week, it was another example of the Hollywood left wing trying to trade their celebrity for votes.
Actor and director Danny DeVito -- you might remember him from the TV show "Taxi" -- acted as a taxi driver for early voters to get to the polls in Florida last week. He's for John Kerry, of course. The Kerry campaign has actually been paying for a number of celebrities to head to battleground states to see if they can make a difference.
BEGALA: I love that. I just think is great that a Hollywood big shot like that, a very successful artist, would want to drive people to the polls. It's a great act of citizenship. I think we can agree that that's a wonderful thing.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: How much do you think they're paying him?
BEGALA: No, I don't think they're paying at all.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 25, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: He's back. With only eight days to go, former President Bill Clinton hits the campaign trail.
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: From time to time, I have been called to comeback kid. In eight days, John Kerry is going make America the comeback country.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Armed Services Committee Will the comeback kid's latest return rally voters for Kerry?
President Bush is working to sway the swing vote.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people of the United States will choose the leader of the free world in the middle of a global war. The choice is not only between two candidates. It is between two directions in the conduct of the war on terror.
ANNOUNCER: And the health of the high court. Will Chief Justice Rehnquist's cancer play a role in the race for the White House?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
With only eight days to go until the election, campaign 2004 is red hot. John Kerry today hammered President Bush for failing to secure 380 tons of explosives in Iraq. The chief justice of the Supreme Court announced he has cancer. And the comeback kid came back to stump for John Kerry.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: With Bill Clinton back to scare Republicans, it is going to push a lot of conservatives into the voting booth to make sure that President Bush gets reelected.
First, though, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
There was an exciting, charismatic Democrat campaigning in the presidential race today. No, John Kerry did not get a charisma transplant. It was Bill Clinton, off his sick bed, campaigning in Philadelphia. But what was he doing in the City of Brotherly Love, a Kerry stronghold? The real problem when you see Kerry and Clinton side by side, you notice how weak and unlikable is the current Democratic nominee. Does Clinton suck up all the political oxygen?
What I would like to see is just one undecided voter who can't make up his mind between Bush and Kerry, but will do whatever Bill Clinton wants. Might that imaginary voter already be in John Kerry's pocket?
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, I don't know. I thought the president was wonderful today. You know how much I love him. But I thought he was wonderful, because he framed up the choice.
If you think it's a good idea to ship jobs overseas and watch a deficit go up, you need to support President Bush, because those have been his policies. Now, John Kerry, he has got different ideas, more like Clinton's ideas, where we actually generated jobs and balanced the budget. So I like framing up the choice the way Bill Clinton did today.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know what it's like? It's like we were going to have a muscle show and we have Arnold Schwarzenegger against me, see. I mean, how bad would I look?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: You're selling President Bush short.
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: He's not quite that lame compared to President Bush.
NOVAK: I'm talking about John Kerry.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: OK.
Well, on a much more serious note, less than one pound of HMX or RDX explosives brought down Flight 103 from Pan Am a few years ago. One ton of the stuff can set off a nuclear bomb. And 380 tons are missing from a site in Iraq which the Bush administration failed to secure. Now, that's enough explosives to fill 40 giant 18-wheelers and it is gone, presumably in the hands of terrorists.
Now, the Bush White House has known about this for weeks, but never told the American people or our troops on the ground in Iraq. "The New York Times" broke the story this morning, quoting the International Atomic Energy Agency as calling it -- quote -- "the greatest explosives bonanza in history" -- unquote. U.S. watchdogs had warned the Bush administration about the site, but their warnings were apparently ignored. The site was not secured because we didn't have enough troops on the ground.
And we didn't have enough troops because President Bush ignored the generals who told him he would need more troops to secure the country. Shame on Mr. Bush.
NOVAK: Paul, let me try to put this in perspective. You're talking about 380 tons. So far, we have secured and destroyed 243,000 tons of weapons and explosives in Iraq. In addition, there's another 163,000 tons of weapons and explosives that have been secured and awaiting destruction.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: And, by the way, I thought there weren't any weapons in Iraq? I thought there...
BEGALA: This was under lock and key from the U.N. They were no threat to us, until Mr. Bush threw away the key and lock and now the bad guys have it.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: John Kerry, in another attempt to make himself candidate of the world, claims he met for hours with all members of the U.N. Security Council just before he voted to go to war. "The Washington Times" reports today there was no such meeting and Kerry spoke to just a few Security Council members.
I did my own reporting and talked to Rich Williamson, who was U.S. ambassador at the U.N. for special political affairs. He believes Senator Kerry had to be talking about a U.N. Association meeting, not a Security Council meeting, of about 15 people, including about five U.N. delegates, including Ambassador Williamson.
This suggests that Senator Kerry is low on accuracy and high on imagination.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: This is how low we have gotten now? OK, so, apparently, John Kerry met with the major members of the Security Council, but not with Bulgaria or Colombia.
NOVAK: He said he met with all of them. He said he met with all of them. BEGALA: Please. You know what? Let's contrast that with President Bush, who said there were weapons, and there weren't, who said there were ties to al Qaeda, and there weren't, who said there was a threat to America, and there wasn't.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Are we really going to make this about who told the truth?
NOVAK: We're talking about Senator Kerry right now. He said he met with all of them. And he has acted like it was a big meeting with them. It was a U.S. Association meeting. That's like a Rotary Club meeting.
(APPLAUSE)
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: First off, you're putting a lot of credence in a very sketchy report. Well, again, we'll debate this more later.
Today's "Wall Street Journal" reports that the Bush administration canceled a plan to kill Iraqi terrorist Abu Musab al- Zarqawi before the invasion of Iraq. General John M. Keane, then the Army's vice chief of staff, called Zarqawi's camp -- quote -- "one of the best targets we ever had" -- unquote.
Former Bush national security aide Lisa Gordon-Hagerty tells "The Journal" there was intelligence that al Zarqawi was in the camp and when Zarqawi began murdering American troops, she asked -- quote -- "Why didn't we get that SOB when we could?" -- unquote. Good question, Lisa. The Bush administration says one factor was -- quote -- "the president's decision to engage the international community on Iraq" -- unquote.
So, if we could kill the No. 1 terrorist in Iraq without invading, there would be less support for Mr. Bush's invasion of Iraq. And so Zarqawi is alive. Scores of Americans are dead, some of them beheaded. Think about that the next time Mr. Bush lectures you about how strong he is.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know, Paul, I don't know if you have a memory problem, but we have talked about the Zarqawi thing before.
BEGALA: Yes, we have.
NOVAK: And it is an old story. And I had a dream last night that some anti-Bush ex-bureaucrat was going to bring this up and I am going to be sitting across from you and you're going to be talking about it. And I was right.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Dreams come true sometimes.
BEGALA: General John Keane, a three-star general?
NOVAK: I'm talking about this little gal from the NSC.
BEGALA: Well, how about General Keane? Well, she worked for President Bush.
NOVAK: OK.
The Democrats are getting desperate. Today, the Kerry campaign pulled Bill Clinton out of his sickbed to offer a few words of encouragement and a little charisma. Will it make any difference to the voters?
And, later, why is Danny DeVito moving from Taxi dispatcher to minivan chauffeur? We'll tell you DeVito and his fellow left-wing stars are getting behind the wheel later on CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: They don't call him the comeback kid for nothing. Bill Clinton was back on the campaign trail today, just weeks after undergoing quadruple bypass surgery.
A huge crowd turned out in Philadelphia today to see my former boss and your former president at a rally with the future president, at least in my opinion. Meanwhile, 380 tons of explosives are missing in Iraq. And the chief justice of the United States is in the hospital battling cancer.
Today, in the CROSSFIRE to debate all of the late-breaking news from the campaign trail, Bob Walker, former Republican congressman -- he is from Pennsylvania -- and Kerry foreign policy adviser Wendy Sherman.
Good to see you both.
(APPLAUSE)
WENDY SHERMAN, KERRY FOREIGN POLICY ADVISER: Good to see you.
(APPLAUSE)
BOB WALKER (R), FORMER U.S. CONGRESSMAN: Nice to see you.
NOVAK: Ambassador Sherman, Bill Clinton, your former boss, was out there in Philadelphia. And there was some drab-looking guy with a long face next to him. I don't know who that was. But, anyway...
SHERMAN: The taller guy.
NOVAK: Yes.
Representative -- Congressman Elijah Cummings of Maryland, who is a very smart guy, had a very good comment. And let's read it to you. He said: "I think that Kerry's biggest problem is that he's not Clinton. A lot of people are expecting a Bill Clinton, and that is not who Kerry is. But, on the other hand, his heart is right."
But isn't that the problem? You can't make John Kerry into Bill Clinton, no matter how close you put the two together?
SHERMAN: I think everybody has great regard for President Clinton. But we're now in this election at this time dealing with an incredibly tough set of threats. We're dealing with a time when the president has said he's the best to protect the lives of the American people.
And yet 380 tons, 760,000 pounds of explosives, are now wandering around the world, because this president did not protect our troops from those explosives, as was pointed out at the beginning of your program. So that's what we have to do. And John Kerry is a guy who knows how to keep us safe.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I would have sworn -- I would have sworn I asked you about Clinton. So you are saying Clinton is pretty much irrelevant. This is just fun and games, right?
SHERMAN: I'm saying that there's great regard for Bill Clinton, that John Kerry wants to go back to the time where we don't have deficits, where we have a balanced budget, where we have jobs. Those are the things that Bill Clinton represents to this country.
And John Kerry is going to get us back to that time where we aren't outsourcing our jobs, where we have health care for people, and where our country is safe and we're protected from the terrorists abroad.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Bob Walker, let me bring you into this. I suspect you'll have a slightly different take, but let me...
WALKER: I probably have a different point of view than that. That's right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... piece of data, though. Back in June, before he got sick, and you would expect a sympathy surge, before his heart surgery months ago, President Clinton's job approval rating was 62. President Bush's today is 48. And let me suggest why.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: Well, it depends on your poll. The president has moved up in the polls today. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: He's at 48 in all of them. If you average all the national polls and if you take Clinton...
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: Fifty-two in the polls today.
NOVAK: I don't think 48 is the average.
WALKER: No, 52 in the polls today.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: You know what? We'll do a whole show about these idiot polls. OK?
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The point is, if it is 52, it doesn't matter.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Clinton is still 10 points more popular, at least. And I think here's why. Here is Bill Clinton on the campaign trail today framing up the choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: Now, one of Clinton's laws of politics is this. If one candidate is trying to scare you and the other one is try get you to think, if one candidate is appealing to your fears and the other one is appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: So even if you're right and Bush is at 52, that's why Clinton is 10 points more popular than Bush, because he's about hope and President Bush is about fear. Isn't that the problem he's got?
WALKER: Well, I listen to that and wonder whether or not he's talking about John Kerry, who has been trying to scare people about the draft and about Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
WALKER: Those have been the substance of the Kerry campaign. And so I'm not so certain exactly who President Clinton was referring to there. BEGALA: Well, how do you account for the fact that long before his illness, President Clinton was so much more popular than President Bush?
WALKER: Well, I think that what you have is people looking back fondly on the fact that the economy was booming in the mid-'90s.
However, what we have not yet sorted out is how it was who moving into recession by the time his presidency ended.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: So people are dumb?
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: No, no. People aren't dumb.
But the fact is that Bill Clinton coming out today and campaigning for John Kerry will help bring out the base of the Democratic Party. It doesn't help him at all bring in Republicans or independents. The president is doing very well with independent votes right now. He's up about 12 points among independent voters.
NOVAK: Bob, I would say that people are pretty dumb. But that's another matter.
(LAUGHTER)
WALKER: I wouldn't say that.
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: I think people aren't dumb about the deficit and the jobs that we're facing in this country at all.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Wendy Sherman, Chief Justice Rehnquist is in the hospital with cancer. And our prayers are all with him.
SHERMAN: Absolutely.
NOVAK: But it does raise the question that this next president, whoever is elected, may have not only a chief justice to name, but maybe three other judges, really shape the court for a generation.
And John Kerry has been very, very unequivocal in saying he would have a litmus test for judges. I'm going to just give you one quote. I can name a whole bunch of them, but this is one of the clearest. On March 2, he said: "I am proud that I am the only presidential candidate to pledge that I will support only pro-choice judges to the Supreme Court."
What's he going to do, give a third-degree when they get up there and say how will you vote on this case? Are you pro-choice? SHERMAN: No. What John Kerry has said and said in the debate is he believes in judges coming onto the bench and on to the Supreme Court who believe in the Constitution. And right now, the right to privacy is protected in the Constitution. And he wants judges who are going to stand up for the Constitution of the United States.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: No, ma'am. No, ma'am. He said: I want pro-choice judges.
I'm not making that up. That's what he said.
SHERMAN: That is -- that is based -- he said it because it is based on privacy, which is protected by the Constitution.
NOVAK: So that's a litmus test.
SHERMAN: And I want privacy protected in my life. I will bet you do, too.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Go ahead.
WALKER: What it means is that no practicing Catholic can be considered for the Supreme Court under a Kerry presidency.
SHERMAN: That's not true at all. John Kerry is a practicing Catholic.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: The fact is no practicing Catholic can be a Supreme Court justice under...
SHERMAN: That's not true, Bob.
WALKER: That's absolutely true.
SHERMAN: That's absolutely not true at all. That's absolutely not true at all.
WALKER: That's what the litmus test -- that's what the litmus test is all about.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: And it's absolutely a litmus test.
SHERMAN: Absolutely not true at all.
WALKER: He has said it -- he has said it over and over again. It is a litmus test that he is going to put on anybody that he considers for the Supreme Court.
SHERMAN: No.
What the president of the United States has been moving is a litmus test on ideology, ideology in every part of our government, ideology for how we prosecute war, ideology for what we choose to do and not do. What Paul brought up at the beginning of the show about us not going after al Zarqawi before the Iraq war because we were afraid it was going to take away the rationale, so we allowed al Zarqawi to train terrorists, to take over the insurgency, that's an ideology that is not protecting lives.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Why did we not kill Zarqawi?
WALKER: Because it came at the time that we were trying to do what all of you had said was necessary, and that was dealing with the international community. An attack inside of Iraq during a time when you were trying to appeal to the international community would have set off a storm of criticism for the administration.
SHERMAN: We could have gone to the international community.
WALKER: No. The fact is he was attempting to do inside the U.N...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Come on. With a straight face, you're going to tell me that President Bush didn't kill a terrorist who he had in his crosshairs because he was worried about France?
NOVAK: He wasn't in the crosshairs.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: He wasn't in the crosshairs. He was inside of Iraq. He was inside of Iraq, and that would have been regarded as an attack on Iraq before the international community had had its say.
(CROSSTALK)
SHERMAN: President Bush said that he would -- President Bush said he would use a preemptive attack against anyone who was a terrorist who was coming after the United States, and al Zarqawi was coming after us. And we should have taken him out.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: And John Kerry has criticized him constantly for using preemption.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: And yet preemption has taken out five of the seven nations that threatened us as terrorist nations before President Bush became president.
SHERMAN: John Kerry has said that he would always take action to defend this country.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: I don't think that's the case. The fact is that John Kerry has not supported intelligence budgets. He's been in fact been...
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
(APPLAUSE)
SHERMAN: You know that that intelligent budget vote is bogus.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: No, it's not bogus.
SHERMAN: It's absolutely bogus.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break.
BEGALA: Hang on.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break.
And next, in "Rapid Fire," will a President Kerry be able to lead French and German troops into Iraq?
And just ahead, will Chief Justice Rehnquist be able to overcome cancer and remain on the Supreme Court? Wolf Blitzer has the latest on that story.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from New York.
Coming up at the top of the hour, the chief justice of the United States, William Rehnquist has been diagnosed with thyroid cancer. Aides say he had a tracheotomy on Saturday, but they also say he plans to be back on the bench next week. Bouncing back from heart surgery, Bill Clinton goes on the campaign trail with John Kerry. Is the former president risking his health? We'll speak with a cardiologist.
Three-hundred eighty tons of powerful conventional explosives are missing from a storage facility near Baghdad. The White House says President Bush wants to determine what went wrong. We'll ask Henry Kissinger and Madeleine Albright. They will join us together.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
It's time for "Rapid Fire," where we get questions and answers faster than it takes John Kerry to flip-flop -- well, maybe not that fast. Joining us, Wendy Sherman, foreign policy adviser for the Kerry campaign, former official in the State Department in the Clinton administration, and from Pennsylvania, Congressman -- former Republican Congressman Bob Walker.
BEGALA: Bob, what does it say about the president's planning that he secured the oil fields in Iraq, but not 380 tons of dangerous weapons?
WALKER: Well, the fact is that there are 600,000 tons there. And the...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So you win some, you lose some? No big deal?
(LAUGHTER)
WALKER: No, no. The fact is -- no, no. The fact is that what it shows is the fact that we do not have the kind of U.N. inspections process that we should have.
(CROSSTALK)
WALKER: The real article -- the article showed that the U.N. weapons process really failed.
NOVAK: Wendy Sherman, do you see the commander in chief, John Kerry, if he is elected, leading those German and French troops into Iraq?
SHERMAN: I see the commander in chief getting countries around the world to contribute.
NOVAK: French and German.
SHERMAN: Whether it is donors, protecting the borders, election monitors, putting up some of the money, so that the U.S. taxpayers aren't covering all the costs and it is not all our troops.
NOVAK: French and German?
SHERMAN: That's what is important.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: All right, Congressman Walker, new report out today. I just saw Lou Dobbs announcing this on our air. Investor confidence is down. And 60 percent of those surveyed are concerned about outsourcing. Was it a mistake for our president to praise outsourcing in his economic report?
WALKER: Well, I don't he has ever praised outsourcing.
What he does is says that you have to be global companies in order to survive in a global economy. And this president is attempting to make certain that American workers are the best workers in a global economy.
NOVAK: Wendy Sherman, John Kerry used the D word again, the draft. Can you, as a responsible person, finally say that is a canard? There's not going to be a draft.
SHERMAN: What John Kerry has said is that he doesn't know how George Bush, under current circumstances, with every single one of our military, Reserves and all of our officers, either coming or going -- there's a stop-loss effort. There's, in essence, a back-door draft today.
NOVAK: So draft or not?
(BELL RINGING)
SHERMAN: There's a back-door draft today.
NOVAK: Draft or no draft?
SHERMAN: I don't know how the president gets the job done the way he is going. I don't get it.
BEGALA: That will have to be the last word.
Wendy Sherman from the Kerry campaign, Bob Walker, former congressman from Pennsylvania, thank you both very much.
WALKER: Thanks.
NOVAK: All right, thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, you know what? In Hollywood, most of the stars have drivers for their limos. So, next, we'll tell you about a few stars who are doing the driving themselves.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: If you saw a mini guy in a minivan in Miami Beach last week, it was another example of the Hollywood left wing trying to trade their celebrity for votes.
Actor and director Danny DeVito -- you might remember him from the TV show "Taxi" -- acted as a taxi driver for early voters to get to the polls in Florida last week. He's for John Kerry, of course. The Kerry campaign has actually been paying for a number of celebrities to head to battleground states to see if they can make a difference.
BEGALA: I love that. I just think is great that a Hollywood big shot like that, a very successful artist, would want to drive people to the polls. It's a great act of citizenship. I think we can agree that that's a wonderful thing.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: How much do you think they're paying him?
BEGALA: No, I don't think they're paying at all.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
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