Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Crossfire
Kerry Hammers Bush Over Iraqi Explosives
Aired October 27, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The candidates crisscross five swing states in a showdown that could decide this tight race. In Iowa, John Kerry hammers the president over hundreds of tons of missing Iraqi explosives.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The missing explosives could very likely be in the hands of terrorists and insurgents who are actually attacking our forces now 80 times a day, on average.
ANNOUNCER: A Democrat joins President Bush in Pennsylvania to court swing voters, while Bush accuses his opponent of not knowing what he's talking about.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now the senator is making wild charges about missing explosives when his top foreign policy adviser admits -- quote -- "We do not know the facts."
ANNOUNCER: It's down to the wire, six days to go before Americans choose a president.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(APPLAUSE)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hi, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush today was forced on the defensive, responding to reports that 380 tons of explosives may have fallen into the hands of terrorists. Senator John Kerry charged that although guarding the Oil Ministry was a priority for Mr. Bush, guarding 380 tons of explosives was not.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: So, that's the Democrats' October surprise? If that's the best the Democrats can do, they must really be desperate and worried about polls that still show President Bush clearly ahead. We'll debate just how phony this 11th-hour effort is after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The star of this year's Republican National Convention was a Democrat, Senator Zell Miller of Georgia. Today, Senator Miller was at George W. Bush's side in the battleground state of Pennsylvania. In Scranton, the Georgia senator told a rally -- quote -- "I have never seen a presidential candidate of either party who is far out of touch, who is as far out of the mainstream with the average American as is John Kerry" -- unquote.
In Scranton City, Democratic Committeewoman Ann Marie Gowarty said she will vote Republican because of abortion and Iraq. There used to be lots of Democrats like Zell Miller and Ann Marie Gowarty. Now they're pouring into the Republican Party.
BEGALA: Let me tell you, Democrats for Bush can meet in a phone booth and I hope they have a good time.
Look at the Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee from Rhode Island, who has said he cannot, will not vote for President Bush. The former Republican treasurer of Pennsylvania switched parties, Barbara Hafer, she's now a Democrat. She's got a lot more votes in Scranton than the lovely town committeewoman, who nobody has ever heard of.
My favorite, though, is Bush Relatives For Kerry. Even the president's cousins have formed a group opposing the president and supporting John Kerry. That's getting pretty personal.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Do you know that there are a lot more Democrats moving into the Bush line than Republicans moving into the Kerry line?
BEGALA: No way.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: And I'll tell you, Zell Miller, who is a great American, an old Marine, and you worked for him, that must really burn you to see Zell out there going for George Bush.
BEGALA: You know what? Zell Miller, I'll send him a condolence card after he loses on Tuesday. He's a lovely man, but he's going to lose.
Well, the Bush White House yesterday claimed that on the day after Baghdad fell, the 101st Airborne had searched the site from which 380 tons of high-powered explosives disappeared. They suggested that Saddam Hussein perhaps had moved the explosives, rather than looters seizing them after the U.S. had conquered Saddam.
The trouble with that line, though, is it's not true. Colonel Joseph Anderson, the brigade commander whose unit of the 101st Airborne was at the site, tells today's "New York Times" that his troops had not searched the site, as Mr. Bush's aides claimed they had. Now, look, it's bad enough that President Bush didn't listen to the generals who warned him that we needed more troops to secure Iraq, and it's worse that he's now misleading us about it.
But it is downright reprehensible that now our president is trying to use Colonel Anderson and our brave troops to further his falsehoods.
NOVAK: Well, that's a terrific spin, Paul.
But just consider this. Monday morning, when John Kerry gets up, he's going to talk about one of his left-wing schemes, health care or something. He reads "The New York Times," which in league, in collaboration with CBS, has got another slam on Bush on this arms story, throws away everything he's going to do, talks about this for three days. People don't even understand what he's talking about.
And, I mean, the idea of just deciding he's going to take that clip, you're desperate.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: We're just acting on the fact that 380 tons of weapons are missing. I wish Bush would act. If the accusation is Kerry has overreacted to stolen weapons, I think that is a good thing, rather than under-reacting, which apparently Mr. Bush is probably reading the second edition of "My Pet Goat."
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: They all laughed when George W. Bush and Dick Cheney made separate campaign visits to New Jersey. Quinnipiac University's respected poll today called New Jersey a flat-out tie. Can you believe it? Forty-six percent each for Bush and Kerry.
New Jersey is a state whose citizens died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and the poll shows Jerseyites favor Bush way over Kerry as able to handle terrorism. Or maybe Jerseyites are just embarrassed by the Democratic Governor James McGreevey, who resigned after admitting a homosexual affair.
The Kerry campaign announced today that left-wing rock star Bruce Springsteen will campaign for Kerry in Wisconsin and Ohio. Maybe the Boss ought to stick to his home state of New Jersey, which is in danger of going to Bush.
BEGALA: No chance. I've done campaigns in New Jersey.
NOVAK: You've lost there, too.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: No, I won with Frank Lautenberg and I lost with Jim Florio. So I know both. I know how to win and I know how to lose there. Bush is at 46 percent, or President Bush. I don't want to call him by his last name. He's going to lose. He's at 46 percent. He's going to lose, period. I don't think -- you're not a betting man, I know, Bob. You're too virtuous. But if you were, I would bet you a big steak dinner that Kerry wins New Jersey.
NOVAK: Well, tell me why it is that they're tied? Why is Senator Kerry only at 46 percent?
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Because he's the challenger. It doesn't matter. The incumbent is the one who is locked in at 46 percent. Kerry is going to get 53, 54. You watch.
NOVAK: That's mumbo-jumbo.
BEGALA: We will -- no, it's called experience.
One week from today, when we're all saying the phrase president- elect Kerry, something Bob will have a hard time getting used to, one of the unsung heroes of that Kerry victory will be none other than Dick Cheney. That's right. The former Halliburton CEO claimed that there were close ties between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. That was false. He claimed that we would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. That was false.
He said Saddam had an active nuclear weapons program. That was false. And now, after the kidnappings and the beheadings, after 1,112 American deaths and more than 8,000 Americans wounded, after $225 billion spent and 38 tons of explosives missing, this is what Vice President Cheney said about Iraq this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's been a remarkable success story to date, when you look at what's been accomplished overall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: A remarkable success story.
Well, Mr. Vice President, do me a favor, let me know what it is that you're drinking and where I can get a case of it.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Well, let me -- let me...
BEGALA: That's loopy.
NOVAK: I don't understand. You say that there really wasn't any need to go into Iraq. There wasn't any weapons. But the big theme of this campaign has been the weapons that they claim that they overlooked, 300 tons of weapons, when in fact there's hundreds of thousands of tons of weapons that have been recovered.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Why don't you ever mention that?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, that's like saying that one plane crashes and 100 land safely. It's still, for the one plane that crashes, it's pretty bad. That's a whole lot of explosives. Well, we'll talk about that with our guests when they come out here.
But the explosive story of that missing 380 tons of explosives clearly is dominating the campaign trail. President Bush charged Senator Kerry with overreacting to the news story without knowing all the facts. Senator Kerry counters that maybe President Bush under- reacted to the news that 40 truckloads of explosives may be in the hands of terrorists.
And what has Arnold Schwarzenegger got against Halloween pumpkins and his uncle-in-law, Senator Ted Kennedy? Find out later in the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
With only six days to go, which candidate sounds desperate, ready to punch below the belt?
In the CROSSFIRE today, Democratic consultant Kiki McLean and Republican strategist Barbara Comstock.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Barbara, Kiki, both good to see you all again.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let's get right to it. Bob calls it the October surprise. It certainly is an unexpected development; 380 tons of explosives are missing. Senator Kerry, his campaign being more sure- footed than perhaps they were several months ago, has a new ad already out on this. Here's Senator Kerry's ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD) KERRY: The obligation of a commander in chief is to keep our country safe. In Iraq, George Bush has overextended our troops and now failed to secure 380 tons of deadly explosives, the kind used for attacks in Iraq and for terrorist bombings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: That's not -- that's word for word true, right?
BARBARA COMSTOCK, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Well, no, it's a phony story.
BEGALA: Really?
COMSTOCK: And just like the CBS story that the Kerry campaign went...
BEGALA: These are phony explosives?
COMSTOCK: ... ran out and did an ad on without checking the facts, this is a phony story that is already being proved phony. There's no shred of evidence that any explosives were moved out of there. You're talking about trucks and trucks and trucks moved out of there. There's absolutely no evidence that anything moved out of there.
BEGALA: So they're still there?
COMSTOCK: They don't know that anything was even there to start with.
But you have somebody today who is coming out who was there, on site, who said that they were not there. When they first got there, they were not there. He checked. He looked and they weren't there. So the idea that you would go out and run an ad -- his own advisers are saying we don't know. Yet he's going out and accusing the president of this kind of activity. It's outrageous and it's phony and it's desperate, because, just like the -- see, I mean, you're basing an ad on "The New York Times." This is like the CBS Mary Mapes story. It's unbelievable.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: No, I suspect they're basing it on part of -- well, let's talk about the president's response.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: Great. You can be the Howell Raines Democrat. Jayson Blair. It's great. It's your party.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The response from the president of the United States was to say that the 101st Airborne inspected that site and found no weapons there. They were already gone, the explosives material. That turns out to be false. As I mentioned earlier in the show with Bob, Colonel Joseph Anderson, the brigade commander, says...
COMSTOCK: There was another division there a week before.
BEGALA: No.
COMSTOCK: There was another division there. And that's what the gentleman, the story is just coming out today, who is saying, you know, that he was there the week before that, or 10 days, or whatever before, and that there was nothing there. But the idea is, John Kerry is still...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: All right, Kiki McLean, let...
KIKI MCLEAN, KERRY CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Let me point out what is really disturbing about this, is that nobody in this administration can tell us what happened to them.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: John Kerry wanted Saddam Hussein still in charge of them. That's the outrage.
(CROSSTALK)
MCLEAN: This is just another moment. Here's the deal. You've got a guy who won't take responsibility -- who won't take responsibility for...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
MCLEAN: Who won't take responsibility for jobs.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: This is not your program, Kiki. It's my program. OK, now, I've got...
(APPLAUSE)
MCLEAN: All right.
NOVAK: I have got a question to ask you. And we're going to -- I want you to listen to what the commander of the chief of the United States armed forces said about this today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Our military's now investigating a number of possible scenarios, including that the explosives may have been moved before our troops even arrived at the site. And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: The idea is, on Monday morning, Senator Kerry gets up. God knows what he was going to -- what left-wing scheme he was going to talk about that day, but he dumped it and he takes this "New York Times"/CBS story without checking it out and reads it as the gospel.
MCLEAN: No, here's what is going on.
You have a president who can't tell you what happened, won't take responsibility for it. It's another Abu Ghraib prison scandal: I'm not going to take responsibility for it. The economy, millions of jobs lost under him. I'm not going to take responsibility. Tons of explosives unaccounted for that could be putting our men and women in uniform at risk. Not going to take responsibility for it.
You don't have to sit down at Donald Trump's boardroom to say, this guy needs to be fired, OK?
(APPLAUSE)
MCLEAN: It is another example of inept management.
NOVAK: Let me approach this from another angle. And I'm going to give you another sound bite from...
MCLEAN: All right, run it from another angle, Bob. You take another run at it.
NOVAK: From Vice President Cheney, Vice President Cheney.
MCLEAN: Let's do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: If our troops had not gone into Iraq, as John Kerry apparently thinks they should not have, that is 400,000 tons of weapons and explosives that would be in the hands of Saddam Hussein, who would still be sitting in his palace, instead of jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: This is just -- this is less than 400 tons. And there's hundreds of thousands of tons of explosives, so...
MCLEAN: Oh, well, the fact that we can blow up 400 planes over Lockerbie, that ought to be OK. That's all right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So what is the answer -- just the answer...
MCLEAN: The answer... NOVAK: Just a minute -- the answer -- you have got to ask the question before you can answer it. What is the answer to what Dick Cheney said about the fact that if you hadn't gone in there that Saddam Hussein would be sitting on 400,000 tons of explosives?
MCLEAN: The fact of the matter is, the job hasn't been done right. It hasn't been done completely. And it has been done ineptly. And that's the bottom line, Bob.
BEGALA: I would add to that, Barbara, that it's been done dishonestly and by which I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, I mean a host of things. Let me focus on one, the cost. The other big story this week, again, not from the administration. The administration knew about the weapons explosives missing. They didn't tell us.
They certainly know about the new money they want for Iraq. They didn't tell us. But the press, doing their job, found out there was a leak to "The Washington Post." The president's going to ask for $70 billion more for Iraq, bringing the total cost to $225 billion.
And here's what the Bush administration promised us.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: ... that John Kerry voted for, then voted against the $87 billion for our troops, because he wanted to have a more sensitive war on terror, where we don't support our troops with $87 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: If you don't like flip-flops, Barbara, you're not going to like this at all.
Here's what Paul Wolfowitz said before the war: "There's a lot of money to pay for Iraqi reconstruction. It doesn't have to come from U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."
Mitch Daniels, the White House budget direction, soon to be a failed gubernatorial candidate in Indiana.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: Not at all.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Says: "There's just no reason that this can't be an affordable endeavor."
Andrew Natsios, the president's chief guy on reconstruction, told Ted Koppel of ABC's "Nightline" this: "The American part of this will be $1.7 billion. We have no plans for any further-on funding for this."
So they told us it would be $1.7 billion, and it's $225 billion. Are they that deceptive or that dumb?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
COMSTOCK: Paul, listen, the Democratic Party that used to say that we will pay any price, bear any burden, apparently now wants to cut and run. That's what John Kerry did when he voted against the $87 billion.
BEGALA: I understand John Kerry is an evil, awful man and he is terrible.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: But he said it would be irresponsible to vote against the $87 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I want to get in here. I want to get in here.
I asked you -- I asked you why he threw away his left-wing domestic program and went on this weapons thing. And you wouldn't answer me. But I'll tell you why. It's a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll taken this week, and it's still the numbers on Bush over Kerry on terrorism, look at this, 57 percent, Kerry 39 percent. On Iraq, 53 percent, 44 percent. This is a desperate attempt, isn't it, to try to change those numbers, which have been solid for two months.
MCLEAN: But here's the problem. He's in a neck-and-neck race. He's an incumbent president who can't break 50. And he's in a run for his political life, because know there are four million more people without health insurance.
There are millions more without jobs.
NOVAK: Why doesn't he talk about that, instead of weapons?
MCLEAN: We have men and women in harm's way without a plan for peace.
He's been talking about it all across America. You go listen.
NOVAK: Not this week.
MCLEAN: You listen to his stump speech, Bob, and he talks about it. And he doesn't have to say it every day for you, because you know what? Millions of Americans are feeling it every day, and that's why they're supporting John Kerry. They know this is a chance for a fresh start, a chance to get out of the failed policies and a guy that won't take responsibility for the lousy job he's done.
(APPLAUSE) BEGALA: Well, Barbara, let me ask you, who is responsible, who ought to be responsible for the missing weapons, missing explosives in Iraq?
COMSTOCK: Paul, you know, you're still -- you're basing this on this made-up story that came from John Kerry's international press.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Who's responsible for those missing explosives? You don't deny that there's explosives missing, do you?
MCLEAN: But if you're the president, shouldn't you ultimately be responsible?
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: We don't know that there were explosives there at all to start with.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: We know that John Kerry didn't want to go into Iraq at all. And not only would Saddam still be in charge of all of these explosives.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This is so instructive, that you can't talk about the president of the United States. Where does the buck stop? With John Kerry?
NOVAK: All right.
COMSTOCK: We're happy to talk about it and explain that the president is going to...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: They don't have our bell. They took our bell away.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let's take a break.
And when we come back, we'll have the "Rapid Fire." Are those missing explosives the October surprise of this election? Or is there another surprise coming? And then there's new word on the medical condition of Yasser Arafat. Wolf Blitzer has the details after this.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York.
We're following a breaking story out of Ramallah on the West Bank. The health of 75-year-old Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has deteriorated. His senior adviser, Nabil Abu Rudeina, tells CNN that a team of doctors is now on the way to his Ramallah compound to treat him. They say he's too weak to meet with anybody right now. He's unable to walk, having to be carried by aides when he needs to move.
Earlier, Israel Radio reported that Arafat had lost consciousness and has not yet regained it. That is being denied by other Palestinian officials, who tell Reuters he has not lost consciousness. What we do know is that Yasser Arafat has been ill over these past two weeks. Originally, Palestinian authorities said he was suffering from the flu, later from gallstone complications. But now they are confirming his health has deteriorated.
They're also saying that the current Palestinian Authority prime minister, Ahmed Qureia, and the former prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, was summoned to the compound for a meeting with Arafat. The two entered Arafat's room, according to the Associated Press, but other Palestinian officials were kept out.
We will continue to monitor what's happening in Ramallah on the West Bank. Once again, 75-year-old Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat's health has deteriorated. Much more coming up at the top of the hour on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Wolf, thank you for that update on Arafat's health. I know you'll be on top of that story.
Meanwhile, here at CROSSFIRE, it's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions even faster than President Bush can pass the buck for 380 tons of explosives disappearing in Iraq.
Joining us in the CROSSFIRE, Republican strategist Barbara Comstock and Democratic strategist Kiki McLean.
NOVAK: Mrs. McLean, are we going to have to be satisfied with this phony explosives story as the October surprise or do you have a real nasty October surprise coming?
MCLEAN: I don't think anybody needs a surprise when millions of people have no health care and millions of people are out of work and we have men and women in uniform not being taken care of properly by this president. BEGALA: Barbara, Ms. Comstock, to be more formal, the president of the United States has been invoking former President John Fitzgerald Kennedy on the stump.
Today, just a few hours ago, his daughter issued a statement saying: "President Kennedy inspired and united the country. And so will John Kerry. President Bush is doing just the opposite. All of us who revere the strength and resolve of President Kennedy will be supporting John Kerry on Election Day." And she called on Mr. Bush to stop invoking her father's name.
Will he honor the family's request?
COMSTOCK: Well, I've got to say, as a Massachusetts Democrat who once worked for Ted Kennedy, I know there's a lot of Democrats who have switched and are Republicans and are strongly supporting George Bush, like Zell Miller, who was out there on the stump today.
BEGALA: He will honor that request, won't he?
NOVAK: Kiki, are you embarrassed by the supporters of the terrorists in Iraq saying they hope John Kerry wins and is elected?
MCLEAN: I'm proud of John Kerry and I'm going to vote for him because I think he's going to make life better for us.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: OK, thank you very much, Kiki McLean, Barbara Comstock.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Next, Arnold Schwarzenegger said no to the pumpkin his kids picked for Halloween. Find out why there was there this Terminator against the pumpkin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: You've heard about red and blue as political colors. According to the governor of California, however, there's one more color to worry about.
Arnold Schwarzenegger told a crowd at a campaign stop in California that he had been out pumpkin-hunting with his kids, but he was going to return the pumpkin they picked. Why? Because, he says, it's a Democratic pumpkin, the same color, orange, as John Kerry's complexion and as big around as his wife's uncle, Senator Ted Kennedy. That's got to be one really big, really liberal pumpkin.
BEGALA: Arnold Schwarzenegger is one big, really liberal pumpkin. He's for gay rights, abortion rights, gun control.
NOVAK: And tax cuts.
BEGALA: I'll tell you, he's a Bill Clinton Republican.
NOVAK: He's a tax cut...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 27, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: The candidates crisscross five swing states in a showdown that could decide this tight race. In Iowa, John Kerry hammers the president over hundreds of tons of missing Iraqi explosives.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The missing explosives could very likely be in the hands of terrorists and insurgents who are actually attacking our forces now 80 times a day, on average.
ANNOUNCER: A Democrat joins President Bush in Pennsylvania to court swing voters, while Bush accuses his opponent of not knowing what he's talking about.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now the senator is making wild charges about missing explosives when his top foreign policy adviser admits -- quote -- "We do not know the facts."
ANNOUNCER: It's down to the wire, six days to go before Americans choose a president.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(APPLAUSE)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hi, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush today was forced on the defensive, responding to reports that 380 tons of explosives may have fallen into the hands of terrorists. Senator John Kerry charged that although guarding the Oil Ministry was a priority for Mr. Bush, guarding 380 tons of explosives was not.
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: So, that's the Democrats' October surprise? If that's the best the Democrats can do, they must really be desperate and worried about polls that still show President Bush clearly ahead. We'll debate just how phony this 11th-hour effort is after the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The star of this year's Republican National Convention was a Democrat, Senator Zell Miller of Georgia. Today, Senator Miller was at George W. Bush's side in the battleground state of Pennsylvania. In Scranton, the Georgia senator told a rally -- quote -- "I have never seen a presidential candidate of either party who is far out of touch, who is as far out of the mainstream with the average American as is John Kerry" -- unquote.
In Scranton City, Democratic Committeewoman Ann Marie Gowarty said she will vote Republican because of abortion and Iraq. There used to be lots of Democrats like Zell Miller and Ann Marie Gowarty. Now they're pouring into the Republican Party.
BEGALA: Let me tell you, Democrats for Bush can meet in a phone booth and I hope they have a good time.
Look at the Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee from Rhode Island, who has said he cannot, will not vote for President Bush. The former Republican treasurer of Pennsylvania switched parties, Barbara Hafer, she's now a Democrat. She's got a lot more votes in Scranton than the lovely town committeewoman, who nobody has ever heard of.
My favorite, though, is Bush Relatives For Kerry. Even the president's cousins have formed a group opposing the president and supporting John Kerry. That's getting pretty personal.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Do you know that there are a lot more Democrats moving into the Bush line than Republicans moving into the Kerry line?
BEGALA: No way.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: And I'll tell you, Zell Miller, who is a great American, an old Marine, and you worked for him, that must really burn you to see Zell out there going for George Bush.
BEGALA: You know what? Zell Miller, I'll send him a condolence card after he loses on Tuesday. He's a lovely man, but he's going to lose.
Well, the Bush White House yesterday claimed that on the day after Baghdad fell, the 101st Airborne had searched the site from which 380 tons of high-powered explosives disappeared. They suggested that Saddam Hussein perhaps had moved the explosives, rather than looters seizing them after the U.S. had conquered Saddam.
The trouble with that line, though, is it's not true. Colonel Joseph Anderson, the brigade commander whose unit of the 101st Airborne was at the site, tells today's "New York Times" that his troops had not searched the site, as Mr. Bush's aides claimed they had. Now, look, it's bad enough that President Bush didn't listen to the generals who warned him that we needed more troops to secure Iraq, and it's worse that he's now misleading us about it.
But it is downright reprehensible that now our president is trying to use Colonel Anderson and our brave troops to further his falsehoods.
NOVAK: Well, that's a terrific spin, Paul.
But just consider this. Monday morning, when John Kerry gets up, he's going to talk about one of his left-wing schemes, health care or something. He reads "The New York Times," which in league, in collaboration with CBS, has got another slam on Bush on this arms story, throws away everything he's going to do, talks about this for three days. People don't even understand what he's talking about.
And, I mean, the idea of just deciding he's going to take that clip, you're desperate.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: We're just acting on the fact that 380 tons of weapons are missing. I wish Bush would act. If the accusation is Kerry has overreacted to stolen weapons, I think that is a good thing, rather than under-reacting, which apparently Mr. Bush is probably reading the second edition of "My Pet Goat."
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: They all laughed when George W. Bush and Dick Cheney made separate campaign visits to New Jersey. Quinnipiac University's respected poll today called New Jersey a flat-out tie. Can you believe it? Forty-six percent each for Bush and Kerry.
New Jersey is a state whose citizens died in the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and the poll shows Jerseyites favor Bush way over Kerry as able to handle terrorism. Or maybe Jerseyites are just embarrassed by the Democratic Governor James McGreevey, who resigned after admitting a homosexual affair.
The Kerry campaign announced today that left-wing rock star Bruce Springsteen will campaign for Kerry in Wisconsin and Ohio. Maybe the Boss ought to stick to his home state of New Jersey, which is in danger of going to Bush.
BEGALA: No chance. I've done campaigns in New Jersey.
NOVAK: You've lost there, too.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: No, I won with Frank Lautenberg and I lost with Jim Florio. So I know both. I know how to win and I know how to lose there. Bush is at 46 percent, or President Bush. I don't want to call him by his last name. He's going to lose. He's at 46 percent. He's going to lose, period. I don't think -- you're not a betting man, I know, Bob. You're too virtuous. But if you were, I would bet you a big steak dinner that Kerry wins New Jersey.
NOVAK: Well, tell me why it is that they're tied? Why is Senator Kerry only at 46 percent?
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: Because he's the challenger. It doesn't matter. The incumbent is the one who is locked in at 46 percent. Kerry is going to get 53, 54. You watch.
NOVAK: That's mumbo-jumbo.
BEGALA: We will -- no, it's called experience.
One week from today, when we're all saying the phrase president- elect Kerry, something Bob will have a hard time getting used to, one of the unsung heroes of that Kerry victory will be none other than Dick Cheney. That's right. The former Halliburton CEO claimed that there were close ties between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. That was false. He claimed that we would be greeted as liberators in Iraq. That was false.
He said Saddam had an active nuclear weapons program. That was false. And now, after the kidnappings and the beheadings, after 1,112 American deaths and more than 8,000 Americans wounded, after $225 billion spent and 38 tons of explosives missing, this is what Vice President Cheney said about Iraq this week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think it's been a remarkable success story to date, when you look at what's been accomplished overall.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: A remarkable success story.
Well, Mr. Vice President, do me a favor, let me know what it is that you're drinking and where I can get a case of it.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Well, let me -- let me...
BEGALA: That's loopy.
NOVAK: I don't understand. You say that there really wasn't any need to go into Iraq. There wasn't any weapons. But the big theme of this campaign has been the weapons that they claim that they overlooked, 300 tons of weapons, when in fact there's hundreds of thousands of tons of weapons that have been recovered.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Why don't you ever mention that?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, that's like saying that one plane crashes and 100 land safely. It's still, for the one plane that crashes, it's pretty bad. That's a whole lot of explosives. Well, we'll talk about that with our guests when they come out here.
But the explosive story of that missing 380 tons of explosives clearly is dominating the campaign trail. President Bush charged Senator Kerry with overreacting to the news story without knowing all the facts. Senator Kerry counters that maybe President Bush under- reacted to the news that 40 truckloads of explosives may be in the hands of terrorists.
And what has Arnold Schwarzenegger got against Halloween pumpkins and his uncle-in-law, Senator Ted Kennedy? Find out later in the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
With only six days to go, which candidate sounds desperate, ready to punch below the belt?
In the CROSSFIRE today, Democratic consultant Kiki McLean and Republican strategist Barbara Comstock.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Barbara, Kiki, both good to see you all again.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let's get right to it. Bob calls it the October surprise. It certainly is an unexpected development; 380 tons of explosives are missing. Senator Kerry, his campaign being more sure- footed than perhaps they were several months ago, has a new ad already out on this. Here's Senator Kerry's ad.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD) KERRY: The obligation of a commander in chief is to keep our country safe. In Iraq, George Bush has overextended our troops and now failed to secure 380 tons of deadly explosives, the kind used for attacks in Iraq and for terrorist bombings.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: That's not -- that's word for word true, right?
BARBARA COMSTOCK, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: Well, no, it's a phony story.
BEGALA: Really?
COMSTOCK: And just like the CBS story that the Kerry campaign went...
BEGALA: These are phony explosives?
COMSTOCK: ... ran out and did an ad on without checking the facts, this is a phony story that is already being proved phony. There's no shred of evidence that any explosives were moved out of there. You're talking about trucks and trucks and trucks moved out of there. There's absolutely no evidence that anything moved out of there.
BEGALA: So they're still there?
COMSTOCK: They don't know that anything was even there to start with.
But you have somebody today who is coming out who was there, on site, who said that they were not there. When they first got there, they were not there. He checked. He looked and they weren't there. So the idea that you would go out and run an ad -- his own advisers are saying we don't know. Yet he's going out and accusing the president of this kind of activity. It's outrageous and it's phony and it's desperate, because, just like the -- see, I mean, you're basing an ad on "The New York Times." This is like the CBS Mary Mapes story. It's unbelievable.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: No, I suspect they're basing it on part of -- well, let's talk about the president's response.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: Great. You can be the Howell Raines Democrat. Jayson Blair. It's great. It's your party.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: The response from the president of the United States was to say that the 101st Airborne inspected that site and found no weapons there. They were already gone, the explosives material. That turns out to be false. As I mentioned earlier in the show with Bob, Colonel Joseph Anderson, the brigade commander, says...
COMSTOCK: There was another division there a week before.
BEGALA: No.
COMSTOCK: There was another division there. And that's what the gentleman, the story is just coming out today, who is saying, you know, that he was there the week before that, or 10 days, or whatever before, and that there was nothing there. But the idea is, John Kerry is still...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: All right, Kiki McLean, let...
KIKI MCLEAN, KERRY CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Let me point out what is really disturbing about this, is that nobody in this administration can tell us what happened to them.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: John Kerry wanted Saddam Hussein still in charge of them. That's the outrage.
(CROSSTALK)
MCLEAN: This is just another moment. Here's the deal. You've got a guy who won't take responsibility -- who won't take responsibility for...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
MCLEAN: Who won't take responsibility for jobs.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: This is not your program, Kiki. It's my program. OK, now, I've got...
(APPLAUSE)
MCLEAN: All right.
NOVAK: I have got a question to ask you. And we're going to -- I want you to listen to what the commander of the chief of the United States armed forces said about this today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: Our military's now investigating a number of possible scenarios, including that the explosives may have been moved before our troops even arrived at the site. And a political candidate who jumps to conclusions without knowing the facts is not a person you want as your commander in chief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: The idea is, on Monday morning, Senator Kerry gets up. God knows what he was going to -- what left-wing scheme he was going to talk about that day, but he dumped it and he takes this "New York Times"/CBS story without checking it out and reads it as the gospel.
MCLEAN: No, here's what is going on.
You have a president who can't tell you what happened, won't take responsibility for it. It's another Abu Ghraib prison scandal: I'm not going to take responsibility for it. The economy, millions of jobs lost under him. I'm not going to take responsibility. Tons of explosives unaccounted for that could be putting our men and women in uniform at risk. Not going to take responsibility for it.
You don't have to sit down at Donald Trump's boardroom to say, this guy needs to be fired, OK?
(APPLAUSE)
MCLEAN: It is another example of inept management.
NOVAK: Let me approach this from another angle. And I'm going to give you another sound bite from...
MCLEAN: All right, run it from another angle, Bob. You take another run at it.
NOVAK: From Vice President Cheney, Vice President Cheney.
MCLEAN: Let's do it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: If our troops had not gone into Iraq, as John Kerry apparently thinks they should not have, that is 400,000 tons of weapons and explosives that would be in the hands of Saddam Hussein, who would still be sitting in his palace, instead of jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: This is just -- this is less than 400 tons. And there's hundreds of thousands of tons of explosives, so...
MCLEAN: Oh, well, the fact that we can blow up 400 planes over Lockerbie, that ought to be OK. That's all right.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: So what is the answer -- just the answer...
MCLEAN: The answer... NOVAK: Just a minute -- the answer -- you have got to ask the question before you can answer it. What is the answer to what Dick Cheney said about the fact that if you hadn't gone in there that Saddam Hussein would be sitting on 400,000 tons of explosives?
MCLEAN: The fact of the matter is, the job hasn't been done right. It hasn't been done completely. And it has been done ineptly. And that's the bottom line, Bob.
BEGALA: I would add to that, Barbara, that it's been done dishonestly and by which I mean...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Well, I mean a host of things. Let me focus on one, the cost. The other big story this week, again, not from the administration. The administration knew about the weapons explosives missing. They didn't tell us.
They certainly know about the new money they want for Iraq. They didn't tell us. But the press, doing their job, found out there was a leak to "The Washington Post." The president's going to ask for $70 billion more for Iraq, bringing the total cost to $225 billion.
And here's what the Bush administration promised us.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: ... that John Kerry voted for, then voted against the $87 billion for our troops, because he wanted to have a more sensitive war on terror, where we don't support our troops with $87 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: If you don't like flip-flops, Barbara, you're not going to like this at all.
Here's what Paul Wolfowitz said before the war: "There's a lot of money to pay for Iraqi reconstruction. It doesn't have to come from U.S. taxpayer money. We are dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."
Mitch Daniels, the White House budget direction, soon to be a failed gubernatorial candidate in Indiana.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: Not at all.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Says: "There's just no reason that this can't be an affordable endeavor."
Andrew Natsios, the president's chief guy on reconstruction, told Ted Koppel of ABC's "Nightline" this: "The American part of this will be $1.7 billion. We have no plans for any further-on funding for this."
So they told us it would be $1.7 billion, and it's $225 billion. Are they that deceptive or that dumb?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
COMSTOCK: Paul, listen, the Democratic Party that used to say that we will pay any price, bear any burden, apparently now wants to cut and run. That's what John Kerry did when he voted against the $87 billion.
BEGALA: I understand John Kerry is an evil, awful man and he is terrible.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: But he said it would be irresponsible to vote against the $87 billion.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: I want to get in here. I want to get in here.
I asked you -- I asked you why he threw away his left-wing domestic program and went on this weapons thing. And you wouldn't answer me. But I'll tell you why. It's a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll taken this week, and it's still the numbers on Bush over Kerry on terrorism, look at this, 57 percent, Kerry 39 percent. On Iraq, 53 percent, 44 percent. This is a desperate attempt, isn't it, to try to change those numbers, which have been solid for two months.
MCLEAN: But here's the problem. He's in a neck-and-neck race. He's an incumbent president who can't break 50. And he's in a run for his political life, because know there are four million more people without health insurance.
There are millions more without jobs.
NOVAK: Why doesn't he talk about that, instead of weapons?
MCLEAN: We have men and women in harm's way without a plan for peace.
He's been talking about it all across America. You go listen.
NOVAK: Not this week.
MCLEAN: You listen to his stump speech, Bob, and he talks about it. And he doesn't have to say it every day for you, because you know what? Millions of Americans are feeling it every day, and that's why they're supporting John Kerry. They know this is a chance for a fresh start, a chance to get out of the failed policies and a guy that won't take responsibility for the lousy job he's done.
(APPLAUSE) BEGALA: Well, Barbara, let me ask you, who is responsible, who ought to be responsible for the missing weapons, missing explosives in Iraq?
COMSTOCK: Paul, you know, you're still -- you're basing this on this made-up story that came from John Kerry's international press.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Who's responsible for those missing explosives? You don't deny that there's explosives missing, do you?
MCLEAN: But if you're the president, shouldn't you ultimately be responsible?
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: We don't know that there were explosives there at all to start with.
(CROSSTALK)
COMSTOCK: We know that John Kerry didn't want to go into Iraq at all. And not only would Saddam still be in charge of all of these explosives.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: This is so instructive, that you can't talk about the president of the United States. Where does the buck stop? With John Kerry?
NOVAK: All right.
COMSTOCK: We're happy to talk about it and explain that the president is going to...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: We're going to have to take a break.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: They don't have our bell. They took our bell away.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Let's take a break.
And when we come back, we'll have the "Rapid Fire." Are those missing explosives the October surprise of this election? Or is there another surprise coming? And then there's new word on the medical condition of Yasser Arafat. Wolf Blitzer has the details after this.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in New York.
We're following a breaking story out of Ramallah on the West Bank. The health of 75-year-old Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat has deteriorated. His senior adviser, Nabil Abu Rudeina, tells CNN that a team of doctors is now on the way to his Ramallah compound to treat him. They say he's too weak to meet with anybody right now. He's unable to walk, having to be carried by aides when he needs to move.
Earlier, Israel Radio reported that Arafat had lost consciousness and has not yet regained it. That is being denied by other Palestinian officials, who tell Reuters he has not lost consciousness. What we do know is that Yasser Arafat has been ill over these past two weeks. Originally, Palestinian authorities said he was suffering from the flu, later from gallstone complications. But now they are confirming his health has deteriorated.
They're also saying that the current Palestinian Authority prime minister, Ahmed Qureia, and the former prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, was summoned to the compound for a meeting with Arafat. The two entered Arafat's room, according to the Associated Press, but other Palestinian officials were kept out.
We will continue to monitor what's happening in Ramallah on the West Bank. Once again, 75-year-old Palestinian Authority President Yasser Arafat's health has deteriorated. Much more coming up at the top of the hour on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Wolf, thank you for that update on Arafat's health. I know you'll be on top of that story.
Meanwhile, here at CROSSFIRE, it's time for "Rapid Fire," where we ask questions even faster than President Bush can pass the buck for 380 tons of explosives disappearing in Iraq.
Joining us in the CROSSFIRE, Republican strategist Barbara Comstock and Democratic strategist Kiki McLean.
NOVAK: Mrs. McLean, are we going to have to be satisfied with this phony explosives story as the October surprise or do you have a real nasty October surprise coming?
MCLEAN: I don't think anybody needs a surprise when millions of people have no health care and millions of people are out of work and we have men and women in uniform not being taken care of properly by this president. BEGALA: Barbara, Ms. Comstock, to be more formal, the president of the United States has been invoking former President John Fitzgerald Kennedy on the stump.
Today, just a few hours ago, his daughter issued a statement saying: "President Kennedy inspired and united the country. And so will John Kerry. President Bush is doing just the opposite. All of us who revere the strength and resolve of President Kennedy will be supporting John Kerry on Election Day." And she called on Mr. Bush to stop invoking her father's name.
Will he honor the family's request?
COMSTOCK: Well, I've got to say, as a Massachusetts Democrat who once worked for Ted Kennedy, I know there's a lot of Democrats who have switched and are Republicans and are strongly supporting George Bush, like Zell Miller, who was out there on the stump today.
BEGALA: He will honor that request, won't he?
NOVAK: Kiki, are you embarrassed by the supporters of the terrorists in Iraq saying they hope John Kerry wins and is elected?
MCLEAN: I'm proud of John Kerry and I'm going to vote for him because I think he's going to make life better for us.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: OK, thank you very much, Kiki McLean, Barbara Comstock.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Next, Arnold Schwarzenegger said no to the pumpkin his kids picked for Halloween. Find out why there was there this Terminator against the pumpkin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
NOVAK: You've heard about red and blue as political colors. According to the governor of California, however, there's one more color to worry about.
Arnold Schwarzenegger told a crowd at a campaign stop in California that he had been out pumpkin-hunting with his kids, but he was going to return the pumpkin they picked. Why? Because, he says, it's a Democratic pumpkin, the same color, orange, as John Kerry's complexion and as big around as his wife's uncle, Senator Ted Kennedy. That's got to be one really big, really liberal pumpkin.
BEGALA: Arnold Schwarzenegger is one big, really liberal pumpkin. He's for gay rights, abortion rights, gun control.
NOVAK: And tax cuts.
BEGALA: I'll tell you, he's a Bill Clinton Republican.
NOVAK: He's a tax cut...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
