Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Crossfire
President Bush Sets Goals For Second Term
Aired December 20, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: President Bush lays out his vision for the year ahead. He wants to transform the tax code, fix the Social Security system and protect the homeland.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All of these goals require the energy and dedication of members of both political parties.
ANNOUNCER: Can Mr. Bush make all of this happen even when members of his own party have strong opposition to various parts of his plans?
And what about the growing criticism of the job being done by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld?
BUSH: I asked him to stay on, because I understand the nature of the job of the secretary of the defense. And I believe he's doing a really fine job.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the Georgia Washington university, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: President Bush held his end-of-the-year news conference today. And objective observers called it one of his most effective presentations. The president laid out a visionary plan for America's future. And you can bet Democrats will do everything imaginable to obstruct him.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, certainly I hope so. The president said that Donald Rumsfeld has a good heart, even if he used a machine to sign condolence letters to families of soldiers who have been killed.
He said he's going to reduce the deficit by half and privatize part of Social Security, but he didn't mention where the extra trillions to pay for all that will come from. It looks to me like our president needs a New Year's rendezvous with reality.
We will dissect the president's press conference with two experts in just a moment. But, first, the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Secretary Defense Donald Rumsfeld is a very busy man. But he does carve out time for things that are important to him. Rumsfeld told a Chicago radio station he's an avid squash player, which I gather is some kind of rich preppie's game, not a vegetable.
He also said he enjoys chopping wood, skiing, reading, taking long walks, and poetry. But Mr. Rumsfeld did not have the time to sign the letters of condolence to families who have laid down the life of a loved one on the altar of freedom for America. That might get in the way of a good squash game at the country club or perhaps rereading a Rudyard Kipling classic. So, until he was caught by the military newspaper "Stars and Stripes," Secretary Rumsfeld had a machine sign those letters for him.
Rumsfeld is heartless. He is arrogant, incompetent and unworthy to lead heroes. I cannot imagine why President Bush endorsed him today.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know, Donald Rumsfeld has a tin ear. That's not a surprise. That's why he is the secretary of defense and not president of the United States, which is the job he really always wanted.
But you're not kidding me, Paul. This is an attack on George W. Bush and his policy through the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld. That's who you're really after.
BEGALA: Good point.
NOVAK: And you don't really care anything about Rumsfeld.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: I do. The president should fire him. And I'm chagrined that he endorsed him today, after what he did to those soldiers.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Thanks -- thanks to "The Los Angeles Times," we learned that Maxine Waters, Democratic congresswoman from Los Angeles, believes in doing well by doing good. Her family members earn more than $1 million over eight years by doing business with her political allies.
Her husband, Sidney Williams, was paid half a million dollars for consulting work with political friends of his wife. Williams won for a client a half-a-billion dollar prison bond deal from the state treasurer, who is his wife's political ally. Sidney Williams is an old pro football player who was an auto salesman before President Clinton named him as ambassador to the Bahamas. It's all in the family for those Democrats.
BEGALA: Well, it just shows to me that that's a family that's living their values.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: They have liberal views. They work for liberal politicians.
Look, when I was in Texas, I knew a politician's son who worked in campaigns all the time. His name was George W. Bush. That was his family's business. Why is it OK for the Bush family and it's not OK for Congresswoman Waters or the Williamses?
NOVAK: Do you really think that the members of the family should poach on this left-wing congresswoman's name to make $1 million in fees?
BEGALA: They're not poaching on anybody's names. They are working for causes they believe in, just as George W. Bush worked for right-wing causes that he believed in. I didn't hear any conservatives say that he wasn't doing any -- that he was doing something untoward.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: You always have to go back to George W. Bush. Do you think Clinton should have named an auto salesman as ambassador?
BEGALA: He was a highly talented ambassador. He was a good ambassador and better than some of the people our president has appointed.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, anyway, at least -- on a more serious note, at least 70 innocent civilians were killed in attacks in three different cities in Iraq yesterday.
The attack in Najaf targeted the funeral procession of a tribal leader. In Karbala, the mass murder occurred near the Imam Hussein shrine, a site that is sacred to Shiite Muslims. And, in Baghdad, an election official and his bodyguards were yanked from their cars in morning traffic, dragged into the street and shot in the head.
President Bush promised us that our troops would be greeted as liberators. They weren't. Then he said things would get better when Uday and Qusay were killed. They didn't. Then things would get better when Saddam Hussein was captured. They didn't. Then it was the June 30 handover of sovereignty. No improvement. And now it's the January 30 election. Sure.
The truth is, we have 150,000 brave troops stranded in the desert and a commander in chief with his head stuck in the sand.
(APPLAUSE) NOVAK: I want to ask you a question, Paul. You used the misery of the people in Iraq being attacked by their fellow citizens as an attempt to get John Kerry elected. Didn't succeed. What are you using it for now?
BEGALA: I'm not. I'm reporting the truth. This is tragic. And it is the president who needs a new policy there. He has failed our country. He's failing our troops. And I'm going to point out every single day he fails those young men and...
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Isn't what you're trying to do is to undermine him and undermine his support?
BEGALA: I'm trying to help those soldiers. No, sir.
NOVAK: In a bad year for Dan Rather, the CBS anchor was just honored by the conservative Media Research Center for the worst quote of the year.
When four American civilians were killed and mutilated in Iraq, he said, in explaining why they risked their lives, "In this economy, it may be, for some, the only job they can find" -- end quote. Dan also was a runner-up for the worst quote, when he said, of forged documents used by CBS -- quote -- "We haven't always been right, but our record is damn good."
And then he won the "Captain Dan, the Forgery Man" award. To make full disclosure, I have to tell you, I was one of the judges selecting the winners. But I won't say who I voted for.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, I'm glad you disclosed that. One quote you didn't mention from Dan Rather, when he said: I made a mistake. I'm sorry. I'm responsible for it.
What if George W. Bush actually said that? Now, Dan Rather made a mistake, but he owned up to it. That's the kind of Texas man I admire. That's guts.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That's guts.
NOVAK: You get the hat trick. You get the hat trick. You mentioned George W. Bush on every -- every issue that I mentioned.
BEGALA: Good.
NOVAK: Let me ask you this. Do you think that Dan Rather has been an objective, fair and nonpartisan anchor for CBS?
BEGALA: Yes. I think he made a mistake and, like a good journalist, he owned up to it. He corrected the record. And that's courage. And Dan Rather showed that. He's a good journalist.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: The mistake was his zeal to nail George W. Bush.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: He was very tough on Bill Clinton when I worked for President Clinton. He's very tough on President Bush. That's a journalist's job.
Anyway, President Bush has a big wish list for his second term, but will he get everything he's asking for?
And what about his increasingly unpopular secretary of defense? Will Donald Rumsfeld's critics in both parties force a change?
And then, Ralph Nader has a new strategy for building support. We'll tell you what Mr. Nader's got cooking later in the CROSSFIRE.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: President Bush is looking ahead to the new year, the first year of his second term. Will he be able to make the Bush agenda a reality or are Democrats desperate to make him fail?
Joining us for a look ahead, Democratic strategist Vic Kamber and Republican strategist Alex Castellanos.
BEGALA: Guys, good to see you again.
VIC KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: A pleasure.
BEGALA: Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Congratulations. I think I've seen you since the election, but our audience should know you were central to the president's success. And you did a brilliant job. So, congratulations, Alex. I want to say that in public.
ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: All about the candidate.
BEGALA: Well, good for you. It shows you're a pro.
Our president today, though, went out of his way to defend Donald Rumsfeld in the wake of news that the secretary of defense doesn't even bother to sign letters to the families who have lost soldiers.
Here's the president today defending Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I know Secretary Rumsfeld's heart. I know how much he cares for the troops. He's a good, decent man. He's a caring fellow. You know, sometimes, perhaps, his demeanor is rough and gruff, but beneath that rough and gruff, no-nonsense demeanor is a good human being.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Well, apparently, beneath that rough and gruff demeanor is a guy who doesn't write his own letters or sign his own letters to families who have lost soldiers.
This is perhaps why today -- brand new, just out an hour or so ago -- CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup, 52 percent, a majority of the American people, think Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld should resign. Was the president right to be defending such an indefensible act as Rumsfeld not signing those letters?
CASTELLANOS: How about this fellow for a new secretary of defense, somebody who goes over to Walter Reed with his wife on weekends to see the troops? That's also Don Rumsfeld.
He's been a terrific secretary of defense. I remember sitting around tables like this, not that long ago, when a lot of people on that side of the fence were saying, you know, defeating the Iraqi army is going to cost 100,000 American lives. He's conducted this war very well, minimal -- any casualty is one too many. We all know that -- but minimal casualties, less than -- we've lost fewer troops than we lost September 11, when -- that precipitated this whole thing, thanks to the leadership of Rumsfeld and this president. So, I think we ought to stay the course.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: OK. You -- you're baffled by it.
First time you've ever -- you made Begala speechless. That's very good. Vic, secretary -- Senator John Cornyn of Texas, I think, put the situation on -- what the consequences will be if Don Rumsfeld is forced into resignation, the best.
Let's listen to Senator Cornyn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: I think Secretary Rumsfeld has had a bad week or two. But, frankly, I think for him to resign at this time would reward those who want to see us defeated in Iraq. And it's important that he stay through and finish this very difficult job.
(END VIDEO CLIP) NOVAK: Isn't that why even partisan Democrats like Senator Levin of Michigan don't ask for his resignation, because the alternative is worse?
KAMBER: Well, I think the reality is, Bob, a lot of Democrats don't call for his resignation because it's policy we're talking about.
I'm less concerned, with Paul, about signing a letter than I am concerned with the policies in Iraq. And those are President Bush's. The person that if you're going to ask for a resignation should be the president of the United States, not...
NOVAK: I think he just got reelected.
KAMBER: I understand that. I understand that.
(APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: And he has a right to put his secretary of defense there, but let's not play games. The secretary of defense is speaking for the president. And it's Republicans that I understand are mostly calling for his resignation right now, not Democrats.
NOVAK: Name one Republican who has called for his resignation.
KAMBER: Well, I thought -- didn't Mr. McCain -- or, no, that's right. They just don't like what he's doing.
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: Mr. McCain, Mr. Hagel.
NOVAK: The reason -- even Senator Cornyn said he's had a bad week. Who wouldn't say he had a bad couple of weeks? But they would say that this would be aid and comfort to people who want to see use lose in Iraq. Isn't that true?
KAMBER: So they're going out publicly to hope that he can force him into some resignation or force him to step aside. We support our president, but, gee, he's not quite doing what we'd like.
BEGALA: Alex, let me shift to another topic.
The president covered the waterfront today. And good for him. He doesn't hold enough news conferences. I think we got a glimmer today as to why.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: First, let me say -- I praised you. Praise the president. You're right. As a candidate, the president performed really well on the stump. He's quite a good campaigner. He spoke with clarity and strength.
And today, that was all gone. He left it on the campaign trail. He was asked a very simple question by Ed Chen of "The L.A. Times," which was, you say that you're not going to negotiate with yourself on Social Security, but you've also said that you're not going to allow any tax increases to pay for it. Isn't that already setting a precondition?
And here's part of the president's answer. We had to cut it down because it was so extraordinary. Here's the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: In other words, the formula that has enabled them to a certain extent -- the formula they're relying on won't change. Let me put it that way. I'm trying to be really brilliant.
Now, what was the other part of your question?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Alex, buddy, help him out. Can you give me a grade for that performance?
CASTELLANOS: Well, we're the party of diversity. A little diversity of language doesn't hurt now and then.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Yes, but this is Social Security. He has raised this issue. This is not a surprise. It wasn't a gotcha question. It's the issue the president has put at the top of the national agenda, and he's completely unequipped to discuss it. How can that be?
CASTELLANOS: I don't think the president is unequipped to discuss it. As a matter of fact, he's been very clear that, unless we do something now, we're talking about, in about 30 years or so, we're going to -- seniors are going to -- the poverty rate for seniors will double. Gee, I'm talking like that now. It must be the issue.
(LAUGHTER)
CASTELLANOS: The poverty rate for seniors is going to double. We have to do something about it now. And there is a plan. Why shouldn't we take that same money...
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: Why shouldn't we take that same money that's going to government now and let people keep what they have earned and invest a little part of it?
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, I have to intervene, of course. Paul is really being misleading. He was attacking President Bush all during the campaign for being a lousy campaigner. Now he says he was a great campaigner and he's flubbed up now.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I've always said he was a good campaigner, Bob.
NOVAK: No. No. No. You said he was terrible during the campaign.
BEGALA: No.
NOVAK: Well, I can prove -- prove the points.
But the interesting thing is, you're an objective consultant. Did you watch the press conference, the whole press conference?
KAMBER: I've watched part of it. I did not watch the whole thing.
NOVAK: Well, you used to be -- you even used to be a Republican in your younger day.
KAMBER: Different life, yes, different life.
(LAUGHTER)
KAMBER: The party left me. I didn't leave it.
NOVAK: But just -- whether you agree with him or not, I thought that was one of his best performances. I thought he was very good today. Didn't you think he was good?
KAMBER: No, I did not think...
(LAUGHTER)
KAMBER: I thought he was George Bush, inarticulate in his ability to speak. He doesn't know our language the right way. It doesn't mean he's not bright. It doesn't mean he's not smart. He's not the most articulate spokesperson.
NOVAK: All right. I want to just -- he was asked about the philosophy of this thing. And let's just take a listen to him right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: One of the philosophies of this government is, if you own something, the country's better off. You have a stake in the future of the country if you own something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, isn't that what you liberals hate? You don't want the ordinary working people to own bonds and stocks, like rich guys like Paul Begala do. Because he is so ideologically -- he stays a Democrat. But they may become Republicans.
KAMBER: We want working people, first of all, to have a job. And that's the main thing that we want to start with.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: And once they have a job, we hope they can gain wealth.
CASTELLANOS: And we've had job increases -- we've had job increases for the last 15 months, 2.4 million jobs created.
KAMBER: And we're still 600,000 down from when he took office of what we should have been.
NOVAK: Isn't it true that people do own equities, who do own a share in the finance capital are more apt to be Republicans?
KAMBER: If they own a big share of the piece of the pie.
NOVAK: No, any share, any share.
KAMBER: No, no. I mean, we know how many got hurt in the last stock market problems.
NOVAK: Not many. Not many.
KAMBER: What are you talking about? Whole -- what are you talking about, Bob? Whole groups of people, their retirements were wiped out.
CASTELLANOS: We know what's going to happen if we leave the money in here in Washington. The politicians will spend it, like they have spent the Social Security trust fund even before.
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: They raid it all the time.
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: The only way to do it is to let people control a little bit of what they earn.
KAMBER: That's your people. That's Republicans.
CASTELLANOS: All of them.
KAMBER: You control it.
CASTELLANOS: So let's all agree, then, we're going to let people own just a little -- keep a little hunk of what they have earned.
KAMBER: The one thing we have right now as a safety blanket is our Social Security. I don't want to play games with Social Security.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: But that is a terrific threat, that you can admit...
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: No, I'm serious.
NOVAK: That's a different threat. If you can get those people, instead of relying on the government, to rely on their own portfolios, you hate that responsibility for them.
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: Bob, we relied on that before Social Security, and we had the market -- Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, those are our safety blankets in this country. Thank God. And let's not tamper with them.
CASTELLANOS: You -- a lot of holes in it, all of those.
BEGALA: So, your solution is to send it to the fine folks at Enron and Exxon and Halliburton and HealthSouth and Tyco and all the bandits who have been ripping us off in the stock market ever since Bush took office?
(APPLAUSE)
CASTELLANOS: No, the solution is to -- the solution is to trust Paul Begala with a little bit of his own money and invest it wisely.
BEGALA: Who wants to trust Wall Street? That's what you guys want to do with it.
Let me shift to another topic. The president, as I said, covered a lot. He was asked by David Gregory of NBC News about Iraq. And while he did acknowledge that there are some problems and setbacks and said that we need top continue to be resolute in the face of them, he -- well, he blamed the media, actually.
Here's the president blaming the media for the problems in Iraq, or, rather, for people's perceptions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: They're looking on your TV screen and seeing indiscriminate bombing, where thousands of innocent or hundreds of innocent Iraqis are getting killed, and they're saying whether or not we're able to achieve the objective.
What they don't see are the -- you know, the small businesses starting, 15 of the 18 provinces are relatively stable, where progress is being made.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BEGALA: Well, Alex, let's pretend you're the president of CNN; 62 people are murdered yesterday, three shot in the head on the street. Do you think that we should do a story about small businesses in Iraq when we've got 1,300 dead people getting machine-written letters from Donald Rumsfeld? Does he really -- do you think he's out to lunch on this?
CASTELLANOS: You know, there is a war still going on and tragic loss of life.
But there is also another side to the story. And it would be nice if there were a little bit more fair and balanced -- fair and balanced coverage on some of these issues.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: The only small business doing well there is the mortuaries.
CASTELLANOS: Because, actually, people are risking their lives there to vote. Democracy is coming there. And do any of us have any doubt that, 20 years from now, women are going to be voting there, democracy is going to grow there, and that that is the only thing that is going to keep us safe, is the growth of democracy in the Middle East?
NOVAK: We've got to take a break at that point.
Next, in "Rapid Fire," should making your tax cut permanent be at the top of America's wish list?
And it's not a war zone, but Americans are on alert. Wolf Blitzer has the latest just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, a first court appearance this hour for the woman accused of a horrific crime, stealing a baby from its mother's womb after killing the mother.
A dire warning to the thousands of Americans in Kuwait. Are terrorists targeting the tiny country?
And what's in a name? Everything when you share it with the world's most wanted man. You'll meet a young boy whose life has been turned upside down.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank, you Wolf. We look forward to your broadcast at the top of the hour. Here on CROSSFIRE, it's time for "Rapid Fire," where we fire questions even faster than Donald Rumsfeld's signature machine can fire off his heartfelt condolences.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: With us are Republican strategist Alex Castellanos and Democratic strategist Vic Kamber.
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, the new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll asking, should we make tax cuts permanent? Yes, 52 percent, no, 40 percent. Is President Bush on the right side of that issue and you on the wrong side?
KAMBER: No.
I think that, obviously, people all want their taxes back if they can, tax cuts. The reality is, we're in such a deficit. We're in such a hole. The war is costing so much. We have so many problems. Let's not keep these tax cuts. Let's start paying our bills for our future generations.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Alex, that same CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll out just an hour ago shows the president's job approval falling down to 49 percent, down six points since Election Day. Now that you, my friend Karl Rove, Mark McKinnon, the campaign geniuses are no longer running things, he's dropping again, isn't it?
CASTELLANOS: Are you going to ask for a recount?
(LAUGHTER)
CASTELLANOS: The president would only win by three million votes now.
BEGALA: That's a problem, to drop six points in a month.
CASTELLANOS: Well, you know, the polls have been going up and down within that range all year long. I don't think it particularly means much. And we just had a referendum on this administration. And America decided they want to keep going in the same direction.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, the old people don't want to have private Social Security cuts. They're not eligible for them. But the young people, who would be eligible, according to this poll, 62 percent say yes. If you ever deal with any young people, they want to have these private accounts, don't they?
KAMBER: Young people today don't think that Social Security will ever happen to them. They're going to be all rich and wealthy. All we know is history has shown us that that is our safety net. Social Security, let's not tamper with it, Bob. BEGALA: Alex, we're almost out of time.
In the last election cycle, you made a famous ad with rats in it. This one, a famous ad with wolves. If you were going to make an ad about Donald Rumsfeld not signing those letters to soldiers, what animal would you use?
CASTELLANOS: Oh, I don't know about Donald Rumsfeld but, you know, you have a big heart, but also supported kind of a machine-like candidate, so I think we can learn to balance both those tendencies.
NOVAK: OK. Vic Kamber, Alex Castellanos, thank you very much.
What's Ralph Nader cooking up to pay off his latest presidential campaign debt?
Find out next on CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: The election took place about six weeks ago, but Ralph Nader hasn't given up his campaign to embarrass himself.
In the latest example of how low will he go, Nader is hawking copies of a 13-year-old book by his parents in an effort to pay off his campaign debt. In a long-winded pitch on his Web site, Ralph explains that the book includes bits of wisdom and family recipes. Ralph Nader ended his campaign in about $450,000 of debt, received 429,000 votes nationwide, less than one vote for every dollar of debt. But I'm sure Mr. Nader thinks it was worth it.
BEGALA: Well, it's interesting. Ralph Nader selling off old family recipes I think it quite noble. The president, to pay for his campaign, sold off the EPA. He sold off the FDA. Social Security is next. Auction off the whole government to the highest bidder. I prefer Ralph's...
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I only wish that were true. It's just staying -- too much of it is staying with us, too much government.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired December 20, 2004 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville and Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak and Tucker Carlson.
In the CROSSFIRE: President Bush lays out his vision for the year ahead. He wants to transform the tax code, fix the Social Security system and protect the homeland.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All of these goals require the energy and dedication of members of both political parties.
ANNOUNCER: Can Mr. Bush make all of this happen even when members of his own party have strong opposition to various parts of his plans?
And what about the growing criticism of the job being done by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld?
BUSH: I asked him to stay on, because I understand the nature of the job of the secretary of the defense. And I believe he's doing a really fine job.
ANNOUNCER: Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the Georgia Washington university, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: President Bush held his end-of-the-year news conference today. And objective observers called it one of his most effective presentations. The president laid out a visionary plan for America's future. And you can bet Democrats will do everything imaginable to obstruct him.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, certainly I hope so. The president said that Donald Rumsfeld has a good heart, even if he used a machine to sign condolence letters to families of soldiers who have been killed.
He said he's going to reduce the deficit by half and privatize part of Social Security, but he didn't mention where the extra trillions to pay for all that will come from. It looks to me like our president needs a New Year's rendezvous with reality.
We will dissect the president's press conference with two experts in just a moment. But, first, the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
Secretary Defense Donald Rumsfeld is a very busy man. But he does carve out time for things that are important to him. Rumsfeld told a Chicago radio station he's an avid squash player, which I gather is some kind of rich preppie's game, not a vegetable.
He also said he enjoys chopping wood, skiing, reading, taking long walks, and poetry. But Mr. Rumsfeld did not have the time to sign the letters of condolence to families who have laid down the life of a loved one on the altar of freedom for America. That might get in the way of a good squash game at the country club or perhaps rereading a Rudyard Kipling classic. So, until he was caught by the military newspaper "Stars and Stripes," Secretary Rumsfeld had a machine sign those letters for him.
Rumsfeld is heartless. He is arrogant, incompetent and unworthy to lead heroes. I cannot imagine why President Bush endorsed him today.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You know, Donald Rumsfeld has a tin ear. That's not a surprise. That's why he is the secretary of defense and not president of the United States, which is the job he really always wanted.
But you're not kidding me, Paul. This is an attack on George W. Bush and his policy through the secretary of defense, Donald Rumsfeld. That's who you're really after.
BEGALA: Good point.
NOVAK: And you don't really care anything about Rumsfeld.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: I do. The president should fire him. And I'm chagrined that he endorsed him today, after what he did to those soldiers.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Thanks -- thanks to "The Los Angeles Times," we learned that Maxine Waters, Democratic congresswoman from Los Angeles, believes in doing well by doing good. Her family members earn more than $1 million over eight years by doing business with her political allies.
Her husband, Sidney Williams, was paid half a million dollars for consulting work with political friends of his wife. Williams won for a client a half-a-billion dollar prison bond deal from the state treasurer, who is his wife's political ally. Sidney Williams is an old pro football player who was an auto salesman before President Clinton named him as ambassador to the Bahamas. It's all in the family for those Democrats.
BEGALA: Well, it just shows to me that that's a family that's living their values.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: They have liberal views. They work for liberal politicians.
Look, when I was in Texas, I knew a politician's son who worked in campaigns all the time. His name was George W. Bush. That was his family's business. Why is it OK for the Bush family and it's not OK for Congresswoman Waters or the Williamses?
NOVAK: Do you really think that the members of the family should poach on this left-wing congresswoman's name to make $1 million in fees?
BEGALA: They're not poaching on anybody's names. They are working for causes they believe in, just as George W. Bush worked for right-wing causes that he believed in. I didn't hear any conservatives say that he wasn't doing any -- that he was doing something untoward.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: You always have to go back to George W. Bush. Do you think Clinton should have named an auto salesman as ambassador?
BEGALA: He was a highly talented ambassador. He was a good ambassador and better than some of the people our president has appointed.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, anyway, at least -- on a more serious note, at least 70 innocent civilians were killed in attacks in three different cities in Iraq yesterday.
The attack in Najaf targeted the funeral procession of a tribal leader. In Karbala, the mass murder occurred near the Imam Hussein shrine, a site that is sacred to Shiite Muslims. And, in Baghdad, an election official and his bodyguards were yanked from their cars in morning traffic, dragged into the street and shot in the head.
President Bush promised us that our troops would be greeted as liberators. They weren't. Then he said things would get better when Uday and Qusay were killed. They didn't. Then things would get better when Saddam Hussein was captured. They didn't. Then it was the June 30 handover of sovereignty. No improvement. And now it's the January 30 election. Sure.
The truth is, we have 150,000 brave troops stranded in the desert and a commander in chief with his head stuck in the sand.
(APPLAUSE) NOVAK: I want to ask you a question, Paul. You used the misery of the people in Iraq being attacked by their fellow citizens as an attempt to get John Kerry elected. Didn't succeed. What are you using it for now?
BEGALA: I'm not. I'm reporting the truth. This is tragic. And it is the president who needs a new policy there. He has failed our country. He's failing our troops. And I'm going to point out every single day he fails those young men and...
(CROSSTALK)
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: Isn't what you're trying to do is to undermine him and undermine his support?
BEGALA: I'm trying to help those soldiers. No, sir.
NOVAK: In a bad year for Dan Rather, the CBS anchor was just honored by the conservative Media Research Center for the worst quote of the year.
When four American civilians were killed and mutilated in Iraq, he said, in explaining why they risked their lives, "In this economy, it may be, for some, the only job they can find" -- end quote. Dan also was a runner-up for the worst quote, when he said, of forged documents used by CBS -- quote -- "We haven't always been right, but our record is damn good."
And then he won the "Captain Dan, the Forgery Man" award. To make full disclosure, I have to tell you, I was one of the judges selecting the winners. But I won't say who I voted for.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, I'm glad you disclosed that. One quote you didn't mention from Dan Rather, when he said: I made a mistake. I'm sorry. I'm responsible for it.
What if George W. Bush actually said that? Now, Dan Rather made a mistake, but he owned up to it. That's the kind of Texas man I admire. That's guts.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That's guts.
NOVAK: You get the hat trick. You get the hat trick. You mentioned George W. Bush on every -- every issue that I mentioned.
BEGALA: Good.
NOVAK: Let me ask you this. Do you think that Dan Rather has been an objective, fair and nonpartisan anchor for CBS?
BEGALA: Yes. I think he made a mistake and, like a good journalist, he owned up to it. He corrected the record. And that's courage. And Dan Rather showed that. He's a good journalist.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: The mistake was his zeal to nail George W. Bush.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: He was very tough on Bill Clinton when I worked for President Clinton. He's very tough on President Bush. That's a journalist's job.
Anyway, President Bush has a big wish list for his second term, but will he get everything he's asking for?
And what about his increasingly unpopular secretary of defense? Will Donald Rumsfeld's critics in both parties force a change?
And then, Ralph Nader has a new strategy for building support. We'll tell you what Mr. Nader's got cooking later in the CROSSFIRE.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala, Carlson and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: President Bush is looking ahead to the new year, the first year of his second term. Will he be able to make the Bush agenda a reality or are Democrats desperate to make him fail?
Joining us for a look ahead, Democratic strategist Vic Kamber and Republican strategist Alex Castellanos.
BEGALA: Guys, good to see you again.
VIC KAMBER, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: A pleasure.
BEGALA: Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Congratulations. I think I've seen you since the election, but our audience should know you were central to the president's success. And you did a brilliant job. So, congratulations, Alex. I want to say that in public.
ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: All about the candidate.
BEGALA: Well, good for you. It shows you're a pro.
Our president today, though, went out of his way to defend Donald Rumsfeld in the wake of news that the secretary of defense doesn't even bother to sign letters to the families who have lost soldiers.
Here's the president today defending Rumsfeld.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I know Secretary Rumsfeld's heart. I know how much he cares for the troops. He's a good, decent man. He's a caring fellow. You know, sometimes, perhaps, his demeanor is rough and gruff, but beneath that rough and gruff, no-nonsense demeanor is a good human being.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Well, apparently, beneath that rough and gruff demeanor is a guy who doesn't write his own letters or sign his own letters to families who have lost soldiers.
This is perhaps why today -- brand new, just out an hour or so ago -- CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup, 52 percent, a majority of the American people, think Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld should resign. Was the president right to be defending such an indefensible act as Rumsfeld not signing those letters?
CASTELLANOS: How about this fellow for a new secretary of defense, somebody who goes over to Walter Reed with his wife on weekends to see the troops? That's also Don Rumsfeld.
He's been a terrific secretary of defense. I remember sitting around tables like this, not that long ago, when a lot of people on that side of the fence were saying, you know, defeating the Iraqi army is going to cost 100,000 American lives. He's conducted this war very well, minimal -- any casualty is one too many. We all know that -- but minimal casualties, less than -- we've lost fewer troops than we lost September 11, when -- that precipitated this whole thing, thanks to the leadership of Rumsfeld and this president. So, I think we ought to stay the course.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: OK. You -- you're baffled by it.
First time you've ever -- you made Begala speechless. That's very good. Vic, secretary -- Senator John Cornyn of Texas, I think, put the situation on -- what the consequences will be if Don Rumsfeld is forced into resignation, the best.
Let's listen to Senator Cornyn.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R), TEXAS: I think Secretary Rumsfeld has had a bad week or two. But, frankly, I think for him to resign at this time would reward those who want to see us defeated in Iraq. And it's important that he stay through and finish this very difficult job.
(END VIDEO CLIP) NOVAK: Isn't that why even partisan Democrats like Senator Levin of Michigan don't ask for his resignation, because the alternative is worse?
KAMBER: Well, I think the reality is, Bob, a lot of Democrats don't call for his resignation because it's policy we're talking about.
I'm less concerned, with Paul, about signing a letter than I am concerned with the policies in Iraq. And those are President Bush's. The person that if you're going to ask for a resignation should be the president of the United States, not...
NOVAK: I think he just got reelected.
KAMBER: I understand that. I understand that.
(APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: And he has a right to put his secretary of defense there, but let's not play games. The secretary of defense is speaking for the president. And it's Republicans that I understand are mostly calling for his resignation right now, not Democrats.
NOVAK: Name one Republican who has called for his resignation.
KAMBER: Well, I thought -- didn't Mr. McCain -- or, no, that's right. They just don't like what he's doing.
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: Mr. McCain, Mr. Hagel.
NOVAK: The reason -- even Senator Cornyn said he's had a bad week. Who wouldn't say he had a bad couple of weeks? But they would say that this would be aid and comfort to people who want to see use lose in Iraq. Isn't that true?
KAMBER: So they're going out publicly to hope that he can force him into some resignation or force him to step aside. We support our president, but, gee, he's not quite doing what we'd like.
BEGALA: Alex, let me shift to another topic.
The president covered the waterfront today. And good for him. He doesn't hold enough news conferences. I think we got a glimmer today as to why.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: First, let me say -- I praised you. Praise the president. You're right. As a candidate, the president performed really well on the stump. He's quite a good campaigner. He spoke with clarity and strength.
And today, that was all gone. He left it on the campaign trail. He was asked a very simple question by Ed Chen of "The L.A. Times," which was, you say that you're not going to negotiate with yourself on Social Security, but you've also said that you're not going to allow any tax increases to pay for it. Isn't that already setting a precondition?
And here's part of the president's answer. We had to cut it down because it was so extraordinary. Here's the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: In other words, the formula that has enabled them to a certain extent -- the formula they're relying on won't change. Let me put it that way. I'm trying to be really brilliant.
Now, what was the other part of your question?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Alex, buddy, help him out. Can you give me a grade for that performance?
CASTELLANOS: Well, we're the party of diversity. A little diversity of language doesn't hurt now and then.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Yes, but this is Social Security. He has raised this issue. This is not a surprise. It wasn't a gotcha question. It's the issue the president has put at the top of the national agenda, and he's completely unequipped to discuss it. How can that be?
CASTELLANOS: I don't think the president is unequipped to discuss it. As a matter of fact, he's been very clear that, unless we do something now, we're talking about, in about 30 years or so, we're going to -- seniors are going to -- the poverty rate for seniors will double. Gee, I'm talking like that now. It must be the issue.
(LAUGHTER)
CASTELLANOS: The poverty rate for seniors is going to double. We have to do something about it now. And there is a plan. Why shouldn't we take that same money...
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: Why shouldn't we take that same money that's going to government now and let people keep what they have earned and invest a little part of it?
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, I have to intervene, of course. Paul is really being misleading. He was attacking President Bush all during the campaign for being a lousy campaigner. Now he says he was a great campaigner and he's flubbed up now.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I've always said he was a good campaigner, Bob.
NOVAK: No. No. No. You said he was terrible during the campaign.
BEGALA: No.
NOVAK: Well, I can prove -- prove the points.
But the interesting thing is, you're an objective consultant. Did you watch the press conference, the whole press conference?
KAMBER: I've watched part of it. I did not watch the whole thing.
NOVAK: Well, you used to be -- you even used to be a Republican in your younger day.
KAMBER: Different life, yes, different life.
(LAUGHTER)
KAMBER: The party left me. I didn't leave it.
NOVAK: But just -- whether you agree with him or not, I thought that was one of his best performances. I thought he was very good today. Didn't you think he was good?
KAMBER: No, I did not think...
(LAUGHTER)
KAMBER: I thought he was George Bush, inarticulate in his ability to speak. He doesn't know our language the right way. It doesn't mean he's not bright. It doesn't mean he's not smart. He's not the most articulate spokesperson.
NOVAK: All right. I want to just -- he was asked about the philosophy of this thing. And let's just take a listen to him right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: One of the philosophies of this government is, if you own something, the country's better off. You have a stake in the future of the country if you own something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Now, isn't that what you liberals hate? You don't want the ordinary working people to own bonds and stocks, like rich guys like Paul Begala do. Because he is so ideologically -- he stays a Democrat. But they may become Republicans.
KAMBER: We want working people, first of all, to have a job. And that's the main thing that we want to start with.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
KAMBER: And once they have a job, we hope they can gain wealth.
CASTELLANOS: And we've had job increases -- we've had job increases for the last 15 months, 2.4 million jobs created.
KAMBER: And we're still 600,000 down from when he took office of what we should have been.
NOVAK: Isn't it true that people do own equities, who do own a share in the finance capital are more apt to be Republicans?
KAMBER: If they own a big share of the piece of the pie.
NOVAK: No, any share, any share.
KAMBER: No, no. I mean, we know how many got hurt in the last stock market problems.
NOVAK: Not many. Not many.
KAMBER: What are you talking about? Whole -- what are you talking about, Bob? Whole groups of people, their retirements were wiped out.
CASTELLANOS: We know what's going to happen if we leave the money in here in Washington. The politicians will spend it, like they have spent the Social Security trust fund even before.
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: They raid it all the time.
(CROSSTALK)
CASTELLANOS: The only way to do it is to let people control a little bit of what they earn.
KAMBER: That's your people. That's Republicans.
CASTELLANOS: All of them.
KAMBER: You control it.
CASTELLANOS: So let's all agree, then, we're going to let people own just a little -- keep a little hunk of what they have earned.
KAMBER: The one thing we have right now as a safety blanket is our Social Security. I don't want to play games with Social Security.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: But that is a terrific threat, that you can admit...
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: No, I'm serious.
NOVAK: That's a different threat. If you can get those people, instead of relying on the government, to rely on their own portfolios, you hate that responsibility for them.
(CROSSTALK)
KAMBER: Bob, we relied on that before Social Security, and we had the market -- Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, those are our safety blankets in this country. Thank God. And let's not tamper with them.
CASTELLANOS: You -- a lot of holes in it, all of those.
BEGALA: So, your solution is to send it to the fine folks at Enron and Exxon and Halliburton and HealthSouth and Tyco and all the bandits who have been ripping us off in the stock market ever since Bush took office?
(APPLAUSE)
CASTELLANOS: No, the solution is to -- the solution is to trust Paul Begala with a little bit of his own money and invest it wisely.
BEGALA: Who wants to trust Wall Street? That's what you guys want to do with it.
Let me shift to another topic. The president, as I said, covered a lot. He was asked by David Gregory of NBC News about Iraq. And while he did acknowledge that there are some problems and setbacks and said that we need top continue to be resolute in the face of them, he -- well, he blamed the media, actually.
Here's the president blaming the media for the problems in Iraq, or, rather, for people's perceptions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: They're looking on your TV screen and seeing indiscriminate bombing, where thousands of innocent or hundreds of innocent Iraqis are getting killed, and they're saying whether or not we're able to achieve the objective.
What they don't see are the -- you know, the small businesses starting, 15 of the 18 provinces are relatively stable, where progress is being made.
(END VIDEO CLIP) BEGALA: Well, Alex, let's pretend you're the president of CNN; 62 people are murdered yesterday, three shot in the head on the street. Do you think that we should do a story about small businesses in Iraq when we've got 1,300 dead people getting machine-written letters from Donald Rumsfeld? Does he really -- do you think he's out to lunch on this?
CASTELLANOS: You know, there is a war still going on and tragic loss of life.
But there is also another side to the story. And it would be nice if there were a little bit more fair and balanced -- fair and balanced coverage on some of these issues.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: The only small business doing well there is the mortuaries.
CASTELLANOS: Because, actually, people are risking their lives there to vote. Democracy is coming there. And do any of us have any doubt that, 20 years from now, women are going to be voting there, democracy is going to grow there, and that that is the only thing that is going to keep us safe, is the growth of democracy in the Middle East?
NOVAK: We've got to take a break at that point.
Next, in "Rapid Fire," should making your tax cut permanent be at the top of America's wish list?
And it's not a war zone, but Americans are on alert. Wolf Blitzer has the latest just ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, a first court appearance this hour for the woman accused of a horrific crime, stealing a baby from its mother's womb after killing the mother.
A dire warning to the thousands of Americans in Kuwait. Are terrorists targeting the tiny country?
And what's in a name? Everything when you share it with the world's most wanted man. You'll meet a young boy whose life has been turned upside down.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank, you Wolf. We look forward to your broadcast at the top of the hour. Here on CROSSFIRE, it's time for "Rapid Fire," where we fire questions even faster than Donald Rumsfeld's signature machine can fire off his heartfelt condolences.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: With us are Republican strategist Alex Castellanos and Democratic strategist Vic Kamber.
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, the new CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll asking, should we make tax cuts permanent? Yes, 52 percent, no, 40 percent. Is President Bush on the right side of that issue and you on the wrong side?
KAMBER: No.
I think that, obviously, people all want their taxes back if they can, tax cuts. The reality is, we're in such a deficit. We're in such a hole. The war is costing so much. We have so many problems. Let's not keep these tax cuts. Let's start paying our bills for our future generations.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Alex, that same CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll out just an hour ago shows the president's job approval falling down to 49 percent, down six points since Election Day. Now that you, my friend Karl Rove, Mark McKinnon, the campaign geniuses are no longer running things, he's dropping again, isn't it?
CASTELLANOS: Are you going to ask for a recount?
(LAUGHTER)
CASTELLANOS: The president would only win by three million votes now.
BEGALA: That's a problem, to drop six points in a month.
CASTELLANOS: Well, you know, the polls have been going up and down within that range all year long. I don't think it particularly means much. And we just had a referendum on this administration. And America decided they want to keep going in the same direction.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Vic Kamber, the old people don't want to have private Social Security cuts. They're not eligible for them. But the young people, who would be eligible, according to this poll, 62 percent say yes. If you ever deal with any young people, they want to have these private accounts, don't they?
KAMBER: Young people today don't think that Social Security will ever happen to them. They're going to be all rich and wealthy. All we know is history has shown us that that is our safety net. Social Security, let's not tamper with it, Bob. BEGALA: Alex, we're almost out of time.
In the last election cycle, you made a famous ad with rats in it. This one, a famous ad with wolves. If you were going to make an ad about Donald Rumsfeld not signing those letters to soldiers, what animal would you use?
CASTELLANOS: Oh, I don't know about Donald Rumsfeld but, you know, you have a big heart, but also supported kind of a machine-like candidate, so I think we can learn to balance both those tendencies.
NOVAK: OK. Vic Kamber, Alex Castellanos, thank you very much.
What's Ralph Nader cooking up to pay off his latest presidential campaign debt?
Find out next on CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: The election took place about six weeks ago, but Ralph Nader hasn't given up his campaign to embarrass himself.
In the latest example of how low will he go, Nader is hawking copies of a 13-year-old book by his parents in an effort to pay off his campaign debt. In a long-winded pitch on his Web site, Ralph explains that the book includes bits of wisdom and family recipes. Ralph Nader ended his campaign in about $450,000 of debt, received 429,000 votes nationwide, less than one vote for every dollar of debt. But I'm sure Mr. Nader thinks it was worth it.
BEGALA: Well, it's interesting. Ralph Nader selling off old family recipes I think it quite noble. The president, to pay for his campaign, sold off the EPA. He sold off the FDA. Social Security is next. Auction off the whole government to the highest bidder. I prefer Ralph's...
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I only wish that were true. It's just staying -- too much of it is staying with us, too much government.
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
