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CNN Crossfire
Democrats Search For New DNC Chair; Inaugural Excess?
Aired January 14, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak.
In the CROSSFIRE:
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said wanted, dead or alive.
ANNOUNCER: Heated words at a trying time from a plainspoken president. Does Mr. Bush now wish he had thought twice before uttering them?
The president's second inauguration runs up a tab of tens of millions of dollars. He calls it a great festival for democracy. Critics call it unnecessary excess at the wrong time.
And a former presidential challenger gets in touch with his roots. Why is Senator John Kerry in Paris?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Politics are busting out all over. Democrats are wondering whether there's some connection between losing elections and exalting abortion on demand. And that sobbing you hear is the whiners complaining about too much money spent to celebrate President Bush's second inauguration.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, speaking of President Bush, this news flash. George W. Bush admitted making a mistake, perhaps the first time he has done so in his presidency. He said there were some things he said he wishes that he could take back.
Gee, Mr. President, that never happens here on CROSSFIRE. Actually, we intend to encourage our guests today to say some things that they will regret tomorrow. We'll see if they do. Now, though, the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE political alert. President Bush's invasion of Iraq has turned that country into a breeding ground for terrorists. That startling and honest, if somewhat obvious declaration, comes from a CIA think tank.
In today's "Washington Post," an expert with the National Intelligence Council says that Iraq provides terrorists -- quote -- "a training ground, a recruitment ground, and the opportunity for enhancing technical skills. There is," the analyst continues, "even under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries" -- unquote.
Now, a few brave politicians like Florida Senator Bob Graham warned of this some time ago. And a few media outlets, frankly, including CROSSFIRE, raised the issue of whether the war would, in fact, wind up helping the terrorists. It's just too bad the decision- makers and the elites didn't heed those warnings.
NOVAK: Like a lot of things the CIA says, Paul, I don't really understand how these are bred and then they go home and what they do.
But I do know this, that terrible terrorists weren't there before, but they are. They have one goal and that's to overthrow the regime, the interim regime, and to cause us trouble. They are not people aiming for terrorism in the United States.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: They have got their hands full in Iraq.
BEGALA: Well, I hope you're right.
NOVAK: Howard Dean is running for Democratic national chairman the same way he ran for president, as the squeaky-clean candidate. Well, he may have been squeaky, but he wasn't so clean.
Zephyr Teachout, who was head of Internet outreach for the Dean campaign, has revealed the campaign hired two political bloggers to say positive things about Dr. Dean at the price of $3,000 a month. That's play for pay. Meanwhile, one of the great former DNC chairman, Bob Strauss, has endorsed one of the candidates. And it isn't Dean. He picked former Congressman Martin Frost, who, like Strauss, is a moderate and a Texan.
Will the DNC members be that smart?
BEGALA: I don't know.
First, if in fact people were paid to flack Howard Dean and didn't disclose that, that is reprehensible. We talked about that earlier with Armstrong Williams. The same standard should apply to liberals. I will say, in -- I've only been at this for 21 years. You have been at it a lot longer, more than twice as long. I don't think I've ever known anybody smarter than the former chairman, Bob Strauss. He is a genius in politics. And if he's for Martin Frost, he is going to give Frost a big boost in this race.
NOVAK: I agree with you.
BEGALA: Well, James Roosevelt Jr., FDR's grandson, is calling on a conservative group to stop using his grandfather's image in an advertisement designed to boost support for President Bush's plan to reduce Social Security benefits and shift the money to the stock market.
"My grandfather," wrote Mr. Roosevelt to the group, "would surely oppose the ideas now being promoted by this administration" -- unquote.
As a former associate commissioner of Social Security himself, Mr. Roosevelt understands the program quite well and he's angry. He wrote that to compare the courage needed to create Social Security -- quote -- "to the courage it will take to dismantle the most successful program in history is simply unconscionable" -- unquote.
In the recent presidential campaign, Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, the daughter of the slain president, called on President Bush to stop invoking her father's name to attack John Kerry. Look, Republicans have plenty of heroes of their own. Why do they have to resort to political grave-robbing?
NOVAK: Well, you know, Paul, the -- I think FDR, Franklin D. Roosevelt, is in the public domain. But if you say he's not in the public domain, I think Republicans will stop talking about him when the Democrats stop talking about Abraham Lincoln.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: It's the same sort of thing.
And let's say -- let's be -- there's no plan to dismantle Social Security. They're just trying to make everybody rich as you are.
BEGALA: No. They want to take away from Social Security and put it into the stock market. It will make some stockbrokers rich.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: But it won't help seniors. And that's what Mr. Roosevelt says.
NOVAK: One of John Kerry's problems in the recent presidential campaign is that he looks French, he speaks French, and he has relatives in France. That was a terrific burden running in a country that felt the French had bailed out of the war on terrorism.
So, where was Senator Kerry today? In Paris visiting President Jacques Chirac, perhaps the most anti-American political figure in the Western world. What's more, the Democratic standard-bearer said precisely the words crafted to call please President Chirac, calling for greater involvement by foreign countries in decision-making on Iraq.
Senator, Chirac will have plenty of say if and when he puts some French boots on the ground in Iraq.
BEGALA: But he's not going to do that, because he's not an idiot.
Only an idiot would go and invade a country that was no threat. I shouldn't use that word. Only someone making the wrong decisions would invade a country that was no threat to you.
NOVAK: OK.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I just think that...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: ... Mr. Chirac was right here.
NOVAK: Well, will the Democrats be able to come up with a party boss who can lead them out of the political wilderness? We'll debate their prospects next.
And some are complaining that President Bush's inauguration is going to be too expensive. Can you really put a price tag on the celebration of democracy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Should President Bush regret speaking his mind? Does misery around the world mean we can't have a first-rate inaugural celebration next week? And will the Democrats ever find somebody to lead the party? A lot to talk about.
Joining us today in the CROSSFIRE, Ann Lewis, communications director for HILLPAC, a political action committee chaired by Senator Hillary Clinton, and Republican consultant, former RNC deputy communications director Cheri Jacobus.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Good to see you both.
Cheri, let me start with this topic Bob and I mentioned earlier, this new national intelligence report that says Iraq, because of our invasion, has become a breeding ground for terrorists. Now, you combine that with the news earlier last week, this week, that the search for weapons of mass destruction has been called off, that there were no weapons, and, in fact, we have created a haven for terrorists, this is the greatest debacle in the last 20 years for America, isn't it?
CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, we haven't created new terrorists, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But a haven for them, is what the CIA says.
JACOBUS: Look, I would rather have them all in one place. They're easier to get.
BEGALA: How are we doing?
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: I think we'll get them.
We had a harder time in Afghanistan, but we did OK. I think the fact that they've been drawn to Iraq, I mean, it's not a great situation, but I think that does give us an opportunity, since they are in one place, to get more of them at one time.
BEGALA: Let me follow through, what the -- I'm sorry. Go ahead, Bob. I didn't mean to interrupt you.
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, I'd like to ask you a question about Iraq. And without doing a postmortem on all the bad things that President Bush did, I'd like to know what the...
ANN LEWIS, NATIONAL CHAIR, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER: I can imagine you would rather not discuss those.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: But we don't have time, anyway, so go ahead.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I'd like to...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: What the Democrats would do, since we have got all these terrorists there, is now the time to just leave peremptorily, bug out, cut and run, and let them have the country? Is that the thing to do now?
LEWIS: Well, I don't think we should cut and run.
Let us be clear. And I believe, unfortunately, the CIA report. I do think that we may well have inadvertently made this situation worse. We're creating more terrorists. NOVAK: I'd like to know what you think we should do now.
LEWIS: That would be bad idea. It would be -- let me go back and say, it would be a bad idea to walk out, because we are in real danger of destabilizing the region.
And I'll tell you what I'm concerned about, which is that, after this election -- and the administration is now telling us, well, don't expect too much from this election. There was great line, you know, numbers aren't really what counts. That is the Republican position towards Election Day.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: It doesn't matter whether or not people vote.
What happens after that? I think we are in real danger of leaving the situation now worse off than we were before. But we have got to stay there and try to stabilize it.
NOVAK: So the Democratic position is to stick it out. I'm glad to hear that.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: The Democratic position is that we had better stabilize.
JACOBUS: I want to know what Republican said numbers don't -- we don't care who shows up to vote.
I think every Republican in the administration and everybody hopes that as many as people as possible in Iraq show up to vote. I think just the opposite, Ann.
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: No. You know, I think they don't want to give unrealistic expectations. But you don't have people going around saying, we don't care if they vote or not. I think they care a lot and we hope they do.
LEWIS: Well, let me just say, my source for this one was a highly secret document called the front page of "The Washington Post."
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: Which had a White House source inside saying, you know, numbers shouldn't really be the judge. That's all.
BEGALA: Let me shift to...
JACOBUS: That is not...
BEGALA: I'm sorry to interrupt you, Cheri, but let me move to another topic.
The president today gave an interesting interview to a collection of reporters. He was asked about mistakes that he had made. Let me go back in time just a few months to one of the more famous press conferences out president had, when he was asked a similar question about what mistakes he had made and what he had learned from there. Here's George W. Bush a couple of months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I wish you would have given me this written question ahead of time, so I could plan for it.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: You know, I just -- I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all the pressure of trying to come up with an answer, but it hadn't yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Well, it has now. It took about six months to pop into that head, but it's popped all right.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: And here's what popped, Cheri.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: The president told, it was reported in the Associated Press, a group of reporters -- and I'm quoting our president here -- "Sometimes, words have consequences you don't intend them to mean. Bring' em on is the classic example, when I was really trying to rally the troops and make it clear to them I fully understood what a great job they were doing, those words had an unintended consequence. It kind of -- some interpreted it to be defiance in the face of danger. That certainly wasn't the case."
Good for him, but why do you suppose it took him six months to admit a simple error?
JACOBUS: Well, first of all, I don't think the president had to admit anything.
I think that what he said was fine. And I think putting the morale of the troops before your own political position in your country is pretty noble. So, I think he might have some regrets...
BEGALA: That's a level of spin even for me that is kind of striking.
JACOBUS: ... because his political opponents, such as you, Paul...
BEGALA: So, wait. He -- you're attacking Bush for apologizing.
JACOBUS: No. I don't think he had anything to apologize for.
BEGALA: OK.
JACOBUS: I think what he said was perfectly fine. It was his political opponents that attacked him for saying that. And now he's saying, well, maybe it wasn't a great idea, but I think being considerate of the morale of the troops is excellent, and I don't think he should apologize for it.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, a big battle going on for DNC chairman.
LEWIS: Yes.
NOVAK: As you're well aware.
One of the leading candidates is Tim Roemer, a very distinguished former chairman from Indiana. I think the Democratic leaders of both the House and Senate thought he might be a good chairman. But Phil Johnson, the Massachusetts Democratic Party chair, was about Tim Roemer. And he said this.
He said, "It would be extremely foolish if the DNC were to be led by a chair who agrees with the Bush administration's position on abortion." Do you -- that's a litmus test. Do you agree with Phil Johnson there should be a litmus test on abortion for the party chairman?
LEWIS: Let me say, one, the Democratic Party has a position on abortion. And it is that abortion should be safe, legal and rare.
And the good news is, that's the majority position of the people of the United States. So we're going to go on doing that. Second, is there a litmus test? Obviously not, because Harry Reid, who is the Democratic leader in the Senate, is, in fact, pro-life. Our party platform says we welcome people of good conscience.
NOVAK: So you don't agree with -- you don't agree with Mr. Johnson?
LEWIS: No, Mr. Johnson was making a strategic point about who the chair of the DNC should be.
NOVAK: Well, what do you think? Do you think he's right or wrong?
LEWIS: What I think is that since I do not have a vote on the Democratic National Committee, I ought to encourage everybody to state their position and let's have that vote.
NOVAK: I tried. I tried. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Cheri, we're almost out of time in this segment, but I want to put up a poll.
"The Hotline," a terrific daily sort of bible of American politics, did -- asked members of the Democratic National Committee who their dream chairman would be. And here's where it came out. No. 1, you won't be surprised, Bill Clinton. No. 2, Terry McAuliffe, probably the best chairman of my lifetime, a great chairman. And in third place is God.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Now, you've got to admit, Terry must have done a pretty good job if he's ahead of God, isn't it -- isn't he?
JACOBUS: Well, I don't know. I'm sure Terry probably thinks did as good as God could do. I think..
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: God is a Democrat, so he could be eligible.
LEWIS: It is our faith-based approach.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
JACOBUS: I think that Terry McAuliffe was good at raising money. I do have some problems with how he was on television. And I think a lot of the Democrats do, too. I think you guys need to find a chairman that embodies the best qualities of what you think your party should be.
NOVAK: OK, we're going to have to take a break.
Just ahead, why are Democrats trying to so hard to rain on President Bush's inauguration parade?
And right after the break, are prospects for Middle East peace disappearing even before the new Palestinian leader takes office?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, another setback in the Middle East peace process. Israel's prime minister cuts off contact with the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas. We'll go to Jerusalem live for details.
Hundreds of Californians forced to leave their homes overnight when water starts seeping through a crack in a dam. We'll have the latest.
And he plays the president on television, but he has several different roles in a play about human rights. We'll have a conversation with the actor Martin Sheen.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf, for that update. We look forward to your report at the top of the hour.
Meanwhile, here at CROSSFIRE, our guests are Cheri Jacobus. She's a Republican consultant, former Republican National Committee deputy communications director. And HILLPAC -- that is Hillary Clinton PAC -- communications director Ann Lewis.
NOVAK: Ann, I hope you're as excited about the prospect of the inauguration next week as I am. And President Bush is pretty excited. He said the other day: The inauguration is a great festival of democracy. People are going to come from all over the country who are celebrating democracy, celebrating my victory, and I'm glad to celebrate with them.
Do you agree with the president? Or are you one of the naysayers who say we shouldn't have a celebration?
LEWIS: Well, count me, unfortunately, among the naysayers.
I am all for celebrating democracy. I think we ought to have an inaugural ceremony that says, you know what? This is how democracies govern. But at a time when we have men and women in combat, at a time when there are people around the world suffering from such want, the idea that you have $40 million in corporate fees and lobbyist fees, you know, paying for all these parties.
NOVAK: Would you say the same if John Kerry was being inaugurated?
LEWIS: Yes, I would.
NOVAK: I'll bet.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: Because you know what? There are better ways to celebrate democracy than these kind of lavish parties.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I would say, Cheri, this is -- this is one of the rare occasions when I actually disagree with Ann and agree with President Bush. I think he should have whatever kind of party he wants. I do think it is a celebration of democracy for all Americans. And it unites us. It's for all Americans. That's why, though, I'm so troubled that he is sticking the District of Columbia with the bill for $12 million. No predecessor ever forced the tiny, impoverished residents of Washington, D.C., to pay for what should be America's celebration. Isn't the president wrong about that part of this?
(APPLAUSE)
JACOBUS: Well, there's a couple things here.
First of all, I think that -- I think that this -- this should be the greatest celebration of democracy, particularly with the elections coming up in Iraq and establishing democracy in that region.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So we shouldn't stick D.C. with it. But all of us should all pay for it, right?
JACOBUS: I don't think we're sticking it. And I don't know if we're all impoverished in the district. There's an often lot of rich lobbyists and people...
BEGALA: Well, there's Bob.
JACOBUS: Bob alone could probably take care of this.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: I think we see a consensus coming here.
(LAUGHTER)
JACOBUS: The District of Columbia actually stands to make a lot of money with all the people coming in and spending money. And I hope they come in from all over and spend lots and lots of money next week, so that we can make this up.
BEGALA: Thank you, Cheri Jacobus. I hope you enjoy the party next week.
Ann Lewis, you and I won't enjoy it quite so much.
Thank you for joining us, both of you.
JACOBUS: Thank you.
BEGALA: More on the inauguration with Bob and I right after this. Stay with us.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BEGALA: And this programming note. CROSSFIRE will be here live from George Washington University on Martin Luther King Day on Monday. Those of you who have the day off, though, have a wonderful weekend celebrating the legacy of a great man.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak.
Join me tomorrow morning at 9:30 Eastern for "THE NOVAK ZONE." I'll have a preview of next week's great celebration and inauguration of George W. Bush.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired January 14, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak.
In the CROSSFIRE:
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's an old poster out West, as I recall, that said wanted, dead or alive.
ANNOUNCER: Heated words at a trying time from a plainspoken president. Does Mr. Bush now wish he had thought twice before uttering them?
The president's second inauguration runs up a tab of tens of millions of dollars. He calls it a great festival for democracy. Critics call it unnecessary excess at the wrong time.
And a former presidential challenger gets in touch with his roots. Why is Senator John Kerry in Paris?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Politics are busting out all over. Democrats are wondering whether there's some connection between losing elections and exalting abortion on demand. And that sobbing you hear is the whiners complaining about too much money spent to celebrate President Bush's second inauguration.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Well, speaking of President Bush, this news flash. George W. Bush admitted making a mistake, perhaps the first time he has done so in his presidency. He said there were some things he said he wishes that he could take back.
Gee, Mr. President, that never happens here on CROSSFIRE. Actually, we intend to encourage our guests today to say some things that they will regret tomorrow. We'll see if they do. Now, though, the best little political briefing in television, the CROSSFIRE political alert. President Bush's invasion of Iraq has turned that country into a breeding ground for terrorists. That startling and honest, if somewhat obvious declaration, comes from a CIA think tank.
In today's "Washington Post," an expert with the National Intelligence Council says that Iraq provides terrorists -- quote -- "a training ground, a recruitment ground, and the opportunity for enhancing technical skills. There is," the analyst continues, "even under the best scenario, over time, the likelihood that some of the jihadists who are not killed there will, in a sense, go home, wherever home is, and will therefore disperse to various other countries" -- unquote.
Now, a few brave politicians like Florida Senator Bob Graham warned of this some time ago. And a few media outlets, frankly, including CROSSFIRE, raised the issue of whether the war would, in fact, wind up helping the terrorists. It's just too bad the decision- makers and the elites didn't heed those warnings.
NOVAK: Like a lot of things the CIA says, Paul, I don't really understand how these are bred and then they go home and what they do.
But I do know this, that terrible terrorists weren't there before, but they are. They have one goal and that's to overthrow the regime, the interim regime, and to cause us trouble. They are not people aiming for terrorism in the United States.
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: They have got their hands full in Iraq.
BEGALA: Well, I hope you're right.
NOVAK: Howard Dean is running for Democratic national chairman the same way he ran for president, as the squeaky-clean candidate. Well, he may have been squeaky, but he wasn't so clean.
Zephyr Teachout, who was head of Internet outreach for the Dean campaign, has revealed the campaign hired two political bloggers to say positive things about Dr. Dean at the price of $3,000 a month. That's play for pay. Meanwhile, one of the great former DNC chairman, Bob Strauss, has endorsed one of the candidates. And it isn't Dean. He picked former Congressman Martin Frost, who, like Strauss, is a moderate and a Texan.
Will the DNC members be that smart?
BEGALA: I don't know.
First, if in fact people were paid to flack Howard Dean and didn't disclose that, that is reprehensible. We talked about that earlier with Armstrong Williams. The same standard should apply to liberals. I will say, in -- I've only been at this for 21 years. You have been at it a lot longer, more than twice as long. I don't think I've ever known anybody smarter than the former chairman, Bob Strauss. He is a genius in politics. And if he's for Martin Frost, he is going to give Frost a big boost in this race.
NOVAK: I agree with you.
BEGALA: Well, James Roosevelt Jr., FDR's grandson, is calling on a conservative group to stop using his grandfather's image in an advertisement designed to boost support for President Bush's plan to reduce Social Security benefits and shift the money to the stock market.
"My grandfather," wrote Mr. Roosevelt to the group, "would surely oppose the ideas now being promoted by this administration" -- unquote.
As a former associate commissioner of Social Security himself, Mr. Roosevelt understands the program quite well and he's angry. He wrote that to compare the courage needed to create Social Security -- quote -- "to the courage it will take to dismantle the most successful program in history is simply unconscionable" -- unquote.
In the recent presidential campaign, Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, the daughter of the slain president, called on President Bush to stop invoking her father's name to attack John Kerry. Look, Republicans have plenty of heroes of their own. Why do they have to resort to political grave-robbing?
NOVAK: Well, you know, Paul, the -- I think FDR, Franklin D. Roosevelt, is in the public domain. But if you say he's not in the public domain, I think Republicans will stop talking about him when the Democrats stop talking about Abraham Lincoln.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: It's the same sort of thing.
And let's say -- let's be -- there's no plan to dismantle Social Security. They're just trying to make everybody rich as you are.
BEGALA: No. They want to take away from Social Security and put it into the stock market. It will make some stockbrokers rich.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: But it won't help seniors. And that's what Mr. Roosevelt says.
NOVAK: One of John Kerry's problems in the recent presidential campaign is that he looks French, he speaks French, and he has relatives in France. That was a terrific burden running in a country that felt the French had bailed out of the war on terrorism.
So, where was Senator Kerry today? In Paris visiting President Jacques Chirac, perhaps the most anti-American political figure in the Western world. What's more, the Democratic standard-bearer said precisely the words crafted to call please President Chirac, calling for greater involvement by foreign countries in decision-making on Iraq.
Senator, Chirac will have plenty of say if and when he puts some French boots on the ground in Iraq.
BEGALA: But he's not going to do that, because he's not an idiot.
Only an idiot would go and invade a country that was no threat. I shouldn't use that word. Only someone making the wrong decisions would invade a country that was no threat to you.
NOVAK: OK.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I just think that...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: ... Mr. Chirac was right here.
NOVAK: Well, will the Democrats be able to come up with a party boss who can lead them out of the political wilderness? We'll debate their prospects next.
And some are complaining that President Bush's inauguration is going to be too expensive. Can you really put a price tag on the celebration of democracy?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Should President Bush regret speaking his mind? Does misery around the world mean we can't have a first-rate inaugural celebration next week? And will the Democrats ever find somebody to lead the party? A lot to talk about.
Joining us today in the CROSSFIRE, Ann Lewis, communications director for HILLPAC, a political action committee chaired by Senator Hillary Clinton, and Republican consultant, former RNC deputy communications director Cheri Jacobus.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Good to see you both.
Cheri, let me start with this topic Bob and I mentioned earlier, this new national intelligence report that says Iraq, because of our invasion, has become a breeding ground for terrorists. Now, you combine that with the news earlier last week, this week, that the search for weapons of mass destruction has been called off, that there were no weapons, and, in fact, we have created a haven for terrorists, this is the greatest debacle in the last 20 years for America, isn't it?
CHERI JACOBUS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, we haven't created new terrorists, Paul.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: But a haven for them, is what the CIA says.
JACOBUS: Look, I would rather have them all in one place. They're easier to get.
BEGALA: How are we doing?
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: I think we'll get them.
We had a harder time in Afghanistan, but we did OK. I think the fact that they've been drawn to Iraq, I mean, it's not a great situation, but I think that does give us an opportunity, since they are in one place, to get more of them at one time.
BEGALA: Let me follow through, what the -- I'm sorry. Go ahead, Bob. I didn't mean to interrupt you.
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, I'd like to ask you a question about Iraq. And without doing a postmortem on all the bad things that President Bush did, I'd like to know what the...
ANN LEWIS, NATIONAL CHAIR, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER: I can imagine you would rather not discuss those.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: But we don't have time, anyway, so go ahead.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: I'd like to...
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: What the Democrats would do, since we have got all these terrorists there, is now the time to just leave peremptorily, bug out, cut and run, and let them have the country? Is that the thing to do now?
LEWIS: Well, I don't think we should cut and run.
Let us be clear. And I believe, unfortunately, the CIA report. I do think that we may well have inadvertently made this situation worse. We're creating more terrorists. NOVAK: I'd like to know what you think we should do now.
LEWIS: That would be bad idea. It would be -- let me go back and say, it would be a bad idea to walk out, because we are in real danger of destabilizing the region.
And I'll tell you what I'm concerned about, which is that, after this election -- and the administration is now telling us, well, don't expect too much from this election. There was great line, you know, numbers aren't really what counts. That is the Republican position towards Election Day.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: It doesn't matter whether or not people vote.
What happens after that? I think we are in real danger of leaving the situation now worse off than we were before. But we have got to stay there and try to stabilize it.
NOVAK: So the Democratic position is to stick it out. I'm glad to hear that.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: The Democratic position is that we had better stabilize.
JACOBUS: I want to know what Republican said numbers don't -- we don't care who shows up to vote.
I think every Republican in the administration and everybody hopes that as many as people as possible in Iraq show up to vote. I think just the opposite, Ann.
(CROSSTALK)
JACOBUS: No. You know, I think they don't want to give unrealistic expectations. But you don't have people going around saying, we don't care if they vote or not. I think they care a lot and we hope they do.
LEWIS: Well, let me just say, my source for this one was a highly secret document called the front page of "The Washington Post."
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: Which had a White House source inside saying, you know, numbers shouldn't really be the judge. That's all.
BEGALA: Let me shift to...
JACOBUS: That is not...
BEGALA: I'm sorry to interrupt you, Cheri, but let me move to another topic.
The president today gave an interesting interview to a collection of reporters. He was asked about mistakes that he had made. Let me go back in time just a few months to one of the more famous press conferences out president had, when he was asked a similar question about what mistakes he had made and what he had learned from there. Here's George W. Bush a couple of months ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I wish you would have given me this written question ahead of time, so I could plan for it.
(LAUGHTER)
BUSH: You know, I just -- I'm sure something will pop into my head here in the midst of this press conference, with all the pressure of trying to come up with an answer, but it hadn't yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: Well, it has now. It took about six months to pop into that head, but it's popped all right.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: And here's what popped, Cheri.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: The president told, it was reported in the Associated Press, a group of reporters -- and I'm quoting our president here -- "Sometimes, words have consequences you don't intend them to mean. Bring' em on is the classic example, when I was really trying to rally the troops and make it clear to them I fully understood what a great job they were doing, those words had an unintended consequence. It kind of -- some interpreted it to be defiance in the face of danger. That certainly wasn't the case."
Good for him, but why do you suppose it took him six months to admit a simple error?
JACOBUS: Well, first of all, I don't think the president had to admit anything.
I think that what he said was fine. And I think putting the morale of the troops before your own political position in your country is pretty noble. So, I think he might have some regrets...
BEGALA: That's a level of spin even for me that is kind of striking.
JACOBUS: ... because his political opponents, such as you, Paul...
BEGALA: So, wait. He -- you're attacking Bush for apologizing.
JACOBUS: No. I don't think he had anything to apologize for.
BEGALA: OK.
JACOBUS: I think what he said was perfectly fine. It was his political opponents that attacked him for saying that. And now he's saying, well, maybe it wasn't a great idea, but I think being considerate of the morale of the troops is excellent, and I don't think he should apologize for it.
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Ann Lewis, a big battle going on for DNC chairman.
LEWIS: Yes.
NOVAK: As you're well aware.
One of the leading candidates is Tim Roemer, a very distinguished former chairman from Indiana. I think the Democratic leaders of both the House and Senate thought he might be a good chairman. But Phil Johnson, the Massachusetts Democratic Party chair, was about Tim Roemer. And he said this.
He said, "It would be extremely foolish if the DNC were to be led by a chair who agrees with the Bush administration's position on abortion." Do you -- that's a litmus test. Do you agree with Phil Johnson there should be a litmus test on abortion for the party chairman?
LEWIS: Let me say, one, the Democratic Party has a position on abortion. And it is that abortion should be safe, legal and rare.
And the good news is, that's the majority position of the people of the United States. So we're going to go on doing that. Second, is there a litmus test? Obviously not, because Harry Reid, who is the Democratic leader in the Senate, is, in fact, pro-life. Our party platform says we welcome people of good conscience.
NOVAK: So you don't agree with -- you don't agree with Mr. Johnson?
LEWIS: No, Mr. Johnson was making a strategic point about who the chair of the DNC should be.
NOVAK: Well, what do you think? Do you think he's right or wrong?
LEWIS: What I think is that since I do not have a vote on the Democratic National Committee, I ought to encourage everybody to state their position and let's have that vote.
NOVAK: I tried. I tried. (CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Cheri, we're almost out of time in this segment, but I want to put up a poll.
"The Hotline," a terrific daily sort of bible of American politics, did -- asked members of the Democratic National Committee who their dream chairman would be. And here's where it came out. No. 1, you won't be surprised, Bill Clinton. No. 2, Terry McAuliffe, probably the best chairman of my lifetime, a great chairman. And in third place is God.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Now, you've got to admit, Terry must have done a pretty good job if he's ahead of God, isn't it -- isn't he?
JACOBUS: Well, I don't know. I'm sure Terry probably thinks did as good as God could do. I think..
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: God is a Democrat, so he could be eligible.
LEWIS: It is our faith-based approach.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
JACOBUS: I think that Terry McAuliffe was good at raising money. I do have some problems with how he was on television. And I think a lot of the Democrats do, too. I think you guys need to find a chairman that embodies the best qualities of what you think your party should be.
NOVAK: OK, we're going to have to take a break.
Just ahead, why are Democrats trying to so hard to rain on President Bush's inauguration parade?
And right after the break, are prospects for Middle East peace disappearing even before the new Palestinian leader takes office?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, another setback in the Middle East peace process. Israel's prime minister cuts off contact with the Palestinian leader, Mahmoud Abbas. We'll go to Jerusalem live for details.
Hundreds of Californians forced to leave their homes overnight when water starts seeping through a crack in a dam. We'll have the latest.
And he plays the president on television, but he has several different roles in a play about human rights. We'll have a conversation with the actor Martin Sheen.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf, for that update. We look forward to your report at the top of the hour.
Meanwhile, here at CROSSFIRE, our guests are Cheri Jacobus. She's a Republican consultant, former Republican National Committee deputy communications director. And HILLPAC -- that is Hillary Clinton PAC -- communications director Ann Lewis.
NOVAK: Ann, I hope you're as excited about the prospect of the inauguration next week as I am. And President Bush is pretty excited. He said the other day: The inauguration is a great festival of democracy. People are going to come from all over the country who are celebrating democracy, celebrating my victory, and I'm glad to celebrate with them.
Do you agree with the president? Or are you one of the naysayers who say we shouldn't have a celebration?
LEWIS: Well, count me, unfortunately, among the naysayers.
I am all for celebrating democracy. I think we ought to have an inaugural ceremony that says, you know what? This is how democracies govern. But at a time when we have men and women in combat, at a time when there are people around the world suffering from such want, the idea that you have $40 million in corporate fees and lobbyist fees, you know, paying for all these parties.
NOVAK: Would you say the same if John Kerry was being inaugurated?
LEWIS: Yes, I would.
NOVAK: I'll bet.
(LAUGHTER)
LEWIS: Because you know what? There are better ways to celebrate democracy than these kind of lavish parties.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I would say, Cheri, this is -- this is one of the rare occasions when I actually disagree with Ann and agree with President Bush. I think he should have whatever kind of party he wants. I do think it is a celebration of democracy for all Americans. And it unites us. It's for all Americans. That's why, though, I'm so troubled that he is sticking the District of Columbia with the bill for $12 million. No predecessor ever forced the tiny, impoverished residents of Washington, D.C., to pay for what should be America's celebration. Isn't the president wrong about that part of this?
(APPLAUSE)
JACOBUS: Well, there's a couple things here.
First of all, I think that -- I think that this -- this should be the greatest celebration of democracy, particularly with the elections coming up in Iraq and establishing democracy in that region.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: So we shouldn't stick D.C. with it. But all of us should all pay for it, right?
JACOBUS: I don't think we're sticking it. And I don't know if we're all impoverished in the district. There's an often lot of rich lobbyists and people...
BEGALA: Well, there's Bob.
JACOBUS: Bob alone could probably take care of this.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: I think we see a consensus coming here.
(LAUGHTER)
JACOBUS: The District of Columbia actually stands to make a lot of money with all the people coming in and spending money. And I hope they come in from all over and spend lots and lots of money next week, so that we can make this up.
BEGALA: Thank you, Cheri Jacobus. I hope you enjoy the party next week.
Ann Lewis, you and I won't enjoy it quite so much.
Thank you for joining us, both of you.
JACOBUS: Thank you.
BEGALA: More on the inauguration with Bob and I right after this. Stay with us.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BEGALA: And this programming note. CROSSFIRE will be here live from George Washington University on Martin Luther King Day on Monday. Those of you who have the day off, though, have a wonderful weekend celebrating the legacy of a great man.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak.
Join me tomorrow morning at 9:30 Eastern for "THE NOVAK ZONE." I'll have a preview of next week's great celebration and inauguration of George W. Bush.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
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