Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Crossfire
Bush's Wish List
Aired February 02, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; sitting in on the right, Jerry Falwell.
In the CROSSFIRE: Tonight, President Bush travels down Pennsylvania Avenue to deliver his State of the Union message to Congress. High on his wish list, fixing Social Security. Administration officials say the program needs major repairs before it is too late.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The scheduled benefits in current law are in fact not sustainable given the scheduled revenues for the program.
ANNOUNCER: But Democrats in Congress aren't in much of a mood to help the president make changes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Social Security faces a long-term challenge, but it is not in crisis.
ANNOUNCER: Also on the president's agenda, touting the progress he says the U.S. is making in Iraq. We'll preview the State of the Union.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and the Reverend Jerry Falwell.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
It is February 2, my brother Chris' birthday, but also Groundhog Day. Dick Cheney emerged from his secure and undisclosed location and saw his shadow.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: And we know what that means, six more years of war.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: But the big news in Washington is the State of the Union address. The president will be alone in the spotlight, where he is expected to defend his policy in Iraq and explain his program to privatize part of Social Security. We will get a preview of the speech from two members of Congress who will be there tonight for the address.
But, first, let me welcome our guest host sitting in on the right, the chancellor of Liberty University, the Reverend Jerry Falwell.
JERRY FALWELL, GUEST CO-HOST: Hello, Paul.
BEGALA: Good to see you again, Reverend.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Thank you for joining us. This should be fun. I see you brought some students from Liberty with you.
FALWELL: I didn't know they were going to be here, but your guy called and told them and they skipped classes to be here.
BEGALA: Well, they are students after my own heart, then, if they are skipping classes.
FALWELL: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, we will begin today, as we always do, with something better than they would be learning in the classroom, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
In advance of President Bush's State of the Union address tonight, administration officials have leaked one major proposal. The Bush administration wants to add $250,000 on top of the present life insurance policies for service members who die in the line of duty. Wait a minute. That sounds awfully familiar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This legislation will include a $250,000 on top of the present life insurance policies for all service members who die in the line of duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: President Bush says he wanted to increase the death benefits for service members ever since he was a young Naval officer fighting in Vietnam. I'm glad he stole that idea from Kerry, who, by the way, made the proposal right here on this stage.
And it's a good idea. And I'm glad the president is adopting it.
FALWELL: Well, Democrats occasionally have a good idea.
(LAUGHTER)
FALWELL: But they just don't win elections.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, apparently, that's true lately. That's true. But I do hope -- I hope the president will give Senator Kerry due credit for having a good idea. It's long overdue.
FALWELL: I seriously doubt that. I seriously doubt that.
BEGALA: I seriously doubt it as well.
(LAUGHTER)
FALWELL: One member of Congress has found a unique way to honor the steps taken towards democracy by so many Iraqis over the past weekend. All the Iraqis who faced the danger of going to vote Sunday had a finger stained with purple ink to prove they had cast their ballot.
The images of brave people willing to carry an obvious sign that they were defying the insurgents have been seen all over the world. Louisiana Congressman Bobby Jindal wants to demonstrate his solidarity with those Iraqi voters. He plans to dip his finger in purple ink before tonight's State of the Union address. If I were there -- and I won't be there -- I would have done the same.
The Republican representative says he'll have the ink available for any of his colleagues who want to support the Iraqis and other people in the world seeking freedom. I'm wondering how many Democrats will follow suit tonight and choose to deny what -- or choose to deny what happened on Sunday in Iraq was a major, major victory.
BEGALA: Well, I'd say it sounds a bit like a stunt to me, Reverend. if Bobby Jindal, who is I think the youngest member of Congress, is so all fired up about this war, why didn't he enlist? We have got 150,000 of our finest young men and women over there. They need an exit strategy, not a stunt from a congressman on the House floor.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
FALWELL: Well, I don't know Bobby Jindal, but I admire the fact that he is doing something.
(BELL RINGING)
FALWELL: You know, I wish I had thought of it before I came on the show today. That's a great idea. And I hope that even some of the Democrats will dip their finger in the ink and admit that millions of Iraqis for the first time in their lifetime voted. Half of them were women. Something like that happened in Afghanistan recently. It is something that hasn't happened in the world before. God bless George W. Bush.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, we will have plenty to debate about that.
Speaking of our president, remember how, in last year's State of the Union address, President Bush declared war on steroids? I found that ironic, since, when he owned the Texas Rangers, Mr. Bush traded for Jose Canseco, who was known as the Typhoid Mary of steroids.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: So, what will be this year's goofy idea from the president? Well, here's a thought. Wage war on long hair, Mr. President. See, right-wingers have always hated long hair on men, other than Jesus, that is.
And look at Johnny Damon of the Boston Red Sox. Why, Mr. President, he looks like a caveman. I have to admit, I got the idea from another world leader who is often misunderestimated as the hapless son of the former leader, Kim Jong Il of North Korea.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: The Associated Re -- press -- the Associated Press, that is, reports that the communist dictator is waging war on long hair, ordering hirsute comrades to get a haircut. The beloved leader himself has reportedly trimmed his famous pompadour. He may be leading the axis of evil, but at least he believes in personal grooming.
I do hope the president doesn't sink to the kind of stunts he did last year with steroids, Reverend. I hope he keeps...
(CROSSTALK)
FALWELL: Well, you and I don't have any problems. Mine is quite thin and yours is not doing badly.
But I'm not hung up on hair. At Liberty, however, we do require the boys to have just one head of hair. It's a lot easier than have to -- having medical examinations to decide -- determine the boys from the girls.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, that's your policy.
FALWELL: One thing that won't be in tonight's State of the Union address is a presidential statement celebrating the confirmation of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general. And that's because Democrats are holding up the vote.
(APPLAUSE)
FALWELL: Senate Democrats have been talking about trying to stop the confirmation with a filibuster. But they are backing off that threat, fortunately.
Now, to keep the president from having one more success to talk about tonight, they are still acting to delay the confirmation. Democrats say their issue is Gonzales' role in putting together the administration's policy on how prisoners taken in the war on terrorism are treated, including whether torture can be used. This is a pointless delay. The Republicans majority in the Senate will confirm Gonzales easily.
Minority Leader Harry Reid doesn't even think all the Democrats -- there are some bright ones -- will vote against him. So, in other words, the Democrats have been reduced to holding up business by debating the inevitable, a practice they do very well.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, I have to say, I think, ultimately, they should confirm Judge Gonzales. But I don't have a problem with asking tough questions about really outrageous legal interpretations that Gonzales had. At the end of the day, he's the president's guy. He should go there.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: And I'm angry with the Democrats who voted with Condoleezza Rice, who lied to us. Al Gonzales never lied to us.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Condi Rice lied to us. And she is unfit for her job.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But I say give Judge Gonzales a proclamation.
FALWELL: You elected Bill Clinton president. What is the trouble with lying?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, he lied about a girlfriend. She lied about a war. Big difference.
FALWELL: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, anyway, how secure is your retirement future? Well, tonight, President Bush will present his plan to try to privatize part of Social Security. He will have quite a sales job ahead of him, since no Democrats currently support it. And a couple of prominent Republicans look like they may oppose it. We will debate Mr. Bush's hard sell in the CROSSFIRE.
And then later, who would you invite to sit with the first lady if you were president? Reverend Falwell and I will have our ideas later. ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
You know, tonight is one of the few times all year when our president gets to talk to the entire country without knuckleheads -- well, knuckleheads like me, I guess, telling you what to think about it. So how will he use his moment in the spotlight?
Today in the CROSSFIRE, two members of Congress who will be in the historic House Chamber for tonight's address. They are both from California, where the politicians are just more interesting than most places.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Republican Congressman Darrell Issa, Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez.
Good to see you both.
REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Thanks. Thanks for having us on.
BEGALA: Reverend.
FALWELL: Loretta, it is likely that President Bush in his second term will get one, two, maybe three opportunities to appoint nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court, possible. And Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid just said that if he sends the same judges through as last time, they will get the same type of treatment, which I assume means obstruct, filibuster, etcetera.
The question I have for you is, if in fact the president does send the same ones through, should the Democratic senators impose a pro-choice litmus test on those nominees?
SANCHEZ: Oh, I don't believe there should be a litmus test about many things on those nominees.
But I think that they should be forthcoming about how they feel about particular cases, so that we have some inkling of whether they are going to be good on civil rights, on privacy issues, I think things that are very, very strong to Americans.
FALWELL: So it wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? It wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? SANCHEZ: Hey, you know, there are a lot of pro-life members in my family. And, you know, I still hang out with them. So...
FALWELL: You haven't answered the question.
BEGALA: Well, and, in fact...
REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: She does support a litmus test, is what she's...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me turn around and ask you if you do. I think Democrats are less guilty of the litmus test here. For example, the new leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid, is pro-life. I don't see pro-choice leading the Republican Party. There seems to be...
(APPLAUSE)
ISSA: What about Tom Davis?
BEGALA: Tom Davis?
ISSA: He's very pro-choice.
SANCHEZ: I think they're leaving the Republican Party.
BEGALA: The judges that the president has sent up...
(CROSSTALK)
FALWELL: Well, I have a litmus test. I want pro-life, pro- family judges on the Supreme Court.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Why doesn't the president say that? Why doesn't -- I admire your candor. Why doesn't the president tell the truth and say that and say, I won't appoint anyone to the bench who doesn't want to criminalize abortion? That's the truth. Why doesn't he tell the truth?
ISSA: Because that's simply not -- that's simply not his test.
BEGALA: He has had 100 judges. Can you name who is pro-choice?
ISSA: He has asked for -- he has asked for and gone through a whole vetting process. And I can specifically, as Loretta can, speak about California. That vetting process included Senator Feinstein. That vetting process was about qualified judges for the courts.
And that has been his litmus test, is people who will fair -- who have the intellect to do it, the experience to do it, and will fairly interpret the laws as they are. And that's all he's asked for. And that's what Republicans are asking for, is the letter of the law is all we're looking for. And we've been denied it repeatedly by the threat of filibuster in the Senate. And that has been a litmus test against anyone who got too conservative, even if they were incredibly capable and bright.
SANCHEZ: I don't believe that America wants their judges to be too conservative.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: I believe that they believe -- that that they believe in civil rights.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That they believe in privacy, that, you know, our court has served us well because there have been people who have been central figures, who have been in the middle of issues, have decided things 5-4 or 4-5.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: Look, that's wonderful, Loretta, but that's not the facts on the ground.
The facts on the ground are that you have judges that would have gotten 70 and 80 votes, including Democrat votes, who were simply agreed to be kept by filibuster. If you bring it to the vote and you get 55 votes, that's the will of the people, not when you hold it back.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And no doubt the president will raise that tonight. And I think it's important to discuss it.
ISSA: As well he should.
BEGALA: But I think the centerpiece of his domestic agenda seems to be a plan to partially privatize Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: No. The center of his is...
BEGALA: Of course it is.
ISSA: The center of his is in fact to provide personal ownership over people's retirement.
BEGALA: But that's Orwellian doublespeak, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: It's not Orwellian. BEGALA: He's trying to privatize Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... tell the truth?
ISSA: Right now, Loretta and I control the lockbox. And he's offering 115 million people the keys to their individual lockboxes.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
FALWELL: And, Loretta, the Quinnipiac poll January 25 to 31 on investing Social Security taxes in the stock market, they asked the question, how do you describe the Social Security system today? Sixty-seven percent said in crisis or in serious problems. Why not let the American people make their own mind up where their money is invested?
(APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: The American people get to make up their own mind where it's invested. They have got 401(k)s. They have got TSP plans if they are in the federal government.
ISSA: That's after the first 13 percent is taken involuntarily away from them, spent by the government and then an IOU put in place.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me ask you -- let me just ask you a very much simple...
SANCHEZ: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: They actually have a guaranteed benefit. Every person who works in America for a certain amount of time has a guaranteed benefit. That means...
ISSA: Show me the money.
SANCHEZ: That whether you have...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: ... that whether you have loss, whether you grow broke, that you have a guaranteed benefit, which means you will not end up in poverty most likely when you get old.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me get you both on the record. Congressman Issa, will you pledge to oppose any effort by President Bush to cut the guaranteed benefit for present or future retirees?
ISSA: I guarantee that we will keep our guarantee to retirees. Your definition of cut, unfortunately, might include not continuing to index ahead of the rate of inflection, which the commission, which included Republicans and Democrats...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I only speak English, a little bit of Spanish, but was that a yes or no, sir? Will you pledge not to cut benefits?
ISSA: I will pledge to keep our promise to the seniors, which includes, which includes that retirement. It does not include indexes greater than the rate of inflation. And, as you know...
SANCHEZ: It currently does include that.
ISSA: No, the pledge doesn't. The current law does.
And choosing the right index is part of what the bipartisan Social Security Commission said needed to be done to fix the system.
BEGALA: We're going to have to take a quick break, Congressman Issa, Congresswoman Sanchez. Keep your seat. Hang on just a second.
When we come back, we'll shift the focus overseas and debate the pleasant -- president's, that is, plans for the rest of the world just ahead.
And then Wolf Blitzer will have the latest on the condition of Pope John Paul II right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, President Bush gets ready for tonight's State of the Union address. We'll get a preview from the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan.
The Vatican says Pope John Paul II's condition has stabilized. Coming up, we'll get a live report. We'll go to the hospital in Rome.
And a failed takeoff near New York. A corporate jet slams into cars and a building.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf, for that update. Look forward to your report at the top of the hour. Here on CROSSFIRE, we're talking about the State of the Union address. President Bush is expected to tell Americans tonight that, while there is a big crisis in Social Security, there is really no crisis in Iraq. Can the leader of the free world lead the American people to stay the course in that country?
Still with us, Republican Congressman -- both from California -- Darrell Issa. He is the Republican. And Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, also from California, and Reverend Jerry Falwell.
FALWELL: Loretta, tonight, sitting in the House gallery with the first lady, among others, will be two recent voters who voted for the first time in their lives, one from Afghanistan, one from Iraq.
And the millions in the last four months who have voted for the first time in their life, half of them have been women, who now have been invited to the human race. They are on equal standing with the men there. My question is, how do you explain the deafening silence of America's feminists?
SANCHEZ: Oh, I think it's incredibly wonderful that, in particular, in the Middle East, we have had three elections actually in the last month by those populations.
ISSA: Palestinian Authority.
SANCHEZ: Because don't forget the Palestinian Authority.
FALWELL: You haven't my question, though, yet.
SANCHEZ: I'm just saying, I think it's exciting. I think it's great. And...
(CROSSTALK)
FALWELL: Well, you are the first feminist I have heard say that and only under pressure on CROSSFIRE.
SANCHEZ: And the women of the Congress applaud that. We have gone back to Afghanistan. We have gone into Iraq. We've met with the women. We're really excited. We're excited that they were on the ballots.
FALWELL: I hope CROSSFIRE will take that bite and play it over and over and over.
BEGALA: I do, too.
SANCHEZ: We're excited.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But let me say for the record, for the record, it was American senators who were raising concerns about the Taliban long before September 11.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: I heard Hillary say that at Tufts University. The problem was, she was married to the president and she raised it without doing anything about it throughout the Clinton administration. So, saying it was raised isn't good enough.
BEGALA: We can attack -- you can attack Bill Clinton all you like. But let me ask you about President Bush tonight.
SANCHEZ: No, no, no. Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Just a second. Excuse me, Congresswoman. Excuse me.
SANCHEZ: The Women's Feminist Majority of Los Angeles, the wife of Jay Leno...
BEGALA: Mavis Leno.
SANCHEZ: ... were actually the people in the beginning, the women in the beginning who were pushing it in the state legislatures, etcetera.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ISSA: I just want to say, where was Hillary until she made a speech saying she was there?
BEGALA: Let me ask you about our president. He'll be standing tonight in that historic chamber.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Standing at...
ISSA: The senators will be sitting. We'll be standing.
BEGALA: The president will be standing delivering a speech.
And as he makes the pledges and promises that he makes, aren't you worried, when he talks about Iraq, that people will remember that he said there were weapons of mass destruction, when there were none, that there were chemical weapons, when there were none, that there were biological weapons, when there were none, that there was a nuclear program, when there were none, that there were links to al Qaeda, when there were none?
Doesn't our president have a credibility crisis now when he talks about Iraq?
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: No, he doesn't. FALWELL: But Mr. Clinton told him that when he took over the office.
ISSA: He doesn't have one.
BEGALA: Really?
ISSA: Because he made the difference of a vote. He made the difference of Saddam being in power, out of power. And the things you're talking about, President Clinton absolutely called for in 1998, made the same claims. Look...
BEGALA: Did not lead us to war. No Americans died, because there were no -- there was no threat.
ISSA: You're right. He said there were tragedies, this man was a great danger. He called for regime change, and he did nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.
BEGALA: There was no threat.
SANCHEZ: He told us there were weapons of mass destruction. He went over a line and he invaded a country, the first time we have done that in our history.
FALWELL: Thank God he did.
ISSA: And thank God he did.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ISSA: You know, look, you can't have it both ways. You can't call for regime change and then not do it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Just a second.
Yes, Ronald Reagan called for regime change in the Soviet Union, but he wasn't fool enough to invade, OK? Bill Clinton called for regime change here and had sanctions, bombings...
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: And I know you were solidly there for him when he called for it.
BEGALA: Yes, I was. Sanctions, bombings and...
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: What happened to you since then?
BEGALA: ... was the policy that we had under Bush Sr.
FALWELL: FDR called for regime change in Tokyo and Berlin. And thank God he did attack.
BEGALA: Oh, but this guy wasn't Hitler. Oh, my goodness.
SANCHEZ: Well, we were invaded.
BEGALA: This guy was a tin horn dictator.
SANCHEZ: We were invaded and we were attacked in World War II. That's the difference.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: Because he only killed two million people.
SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.
BEGALA: He was no threat to America.
SANCHEZ: You know -- and what people don't understand is, we have paid a cost.
The only time -- and this is my true belief. If you go back and you look at this, the only time that we should send soldiers in and ask our soldiers to give up their lives, to tell them, I needed you, is for our own freedom and for America's freedom.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: That has to be the last word.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, Congressman Darrell Issa, both from California.
ISSA: We're there for the freedom of the world. And that's part of our mandate.
BEGALA: We'll have to continue this debate...
SANCHEZ: No, it's not.
BEGALA: ... as they wait for the president to give his address tonight.
Thank you both for joining us.
Well, who would you invite to come share your big night if you were delivering the State of the Union address? Well, Reverend Falwell and I have some interesting ideas of who we would put in the first lady's box. We will share them with you next. FALWELL: Exactly. You're right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Presidents have a tradition at the State of the Union address of placing very important guests in the first lady's box. So, Reverend Falwell and I thought, well, who would we pick?
And, Reverend, let me go first.
I think President Bush should put you in that box. And here's why. Your followers got him reelected. But now he treats you like junkyard dogs. He sits with his big rich cronies. He goes to fancy black-tie dinners with the rich.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But he doesn't want to deal with the conservative activists who actually elected him. And I think you ought to take him on for using you all the way he does.
FALWELL: I don't have a better friend in the world than Mr. Bush or his father.
And just opposite of what -- let me tell you who I would invite. I would invite Michael Moore. I want to sit right by him, so I could...
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I would love that. You would actually get a proper response then. Michael Moore actually might show some footage of, say, the president reading a book about goats.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Anyway, that will be the last word.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
Stay with CNN tonight for extensive coverage of the president's State of the Union address beginning at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. I'll be blogging during the speech and commenting before and after.
FALWELL: And from the right, I'm Jerry Falwell.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired February 2, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; sitting in on the right, Jerry Falwell.
In the CROSSFIRE: Tonight, President Bush travels down Pennsylvania Avenue to deliver his State of the Union message to Congress. High on his wish list, fixing Social Security. Administration officials say the program needs major repairs before it is too late.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The scheduled benefits in current law are in fact not sustainable given the scheduled revenues for the program.
ANNOUNCER: But Democrats in Congress aren't in much of a mood to help the president make changes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Social Security faces a long-term challenge, but it is not in crisis.
ANNOUNCER: Also on the president's agenda, touting the progress he says the U.S. is making in Iraq. We'll preview the State of the Union.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and the Reverend Jerry Falwell.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: Hello, everybody. Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
It is February 2, my brother Chris' birthday, but also Groundhog Day. Dick Cheney emerged from his secure and undisclosed location and saw his shadow.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: And we know what that means, six more years of war.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: But the big news in Washington is the State of the Union address. The president will be alone in the spotlight, where he is expected to defend his policy in Iraq and explain his program to privatize part of Social Security. We will get a preview of the speech from two members of Congress who will be there tonight for the address.
But, first, let me welcome our guest host sitting in on the right, the chancellor of Liberty University, the Reverend Jerry Falwell.
JERRY FALWELL, GUEST CO-HOST: Hello, Paul.
BEGALA: Good to see you again, Reverend.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Thank you for joining us. This should be fun. I see you brought some students from Liberty with you.
FALWELL: I didn't know they were going to be here, but your guy called and told them and they skipped classes to be here.
BEGALA: Well, they are students after my own heart, then, if they are skipping classes.
FALWELL: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, we will begin today, as we always do, with something better than they would be learning in the classroom, the CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
In advance of President Bush's State of the Union address tonight, administration officials have leaked one major proposal. The Bush administration wants to add $250,000 on top of the present life insurance policies for service members who die in the line of duty. Wait a minute. That sounds awfully familiar.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: This legislation will include a $250,000 on top of the present life insurance policies for all service members who die in the line of duty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: President Bush says he wanted to increase the death benefits for service members ever since he was a young Naval officer fighting in Vietnam. I'm glad he stole that idea from Kerry, who, by the way, made the proposal right here on this stage.
And it's a good idea. And I'm glad the president is adopting it.
FALWELL: Well, Democrats occasionally have a good idea.
(LAUGHTER)
FALWELL: But they just don't win elections.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, apparently, that's true lately. That's true. But I do hope -- I hope the president will give Senator Kerry due credit for having a good idea. It's long overdue.
FALWELL: I seriously doubt that. I seriously doubt that.
BEGALA: I seriously doubt it as well.
(LAUGHTER)
FALWELL: One member of Congress has found a unique way to honor the steps taken towards democracy by so many Iraqis over the past weekend. All the Iraqis who faced the danger of going to vote Sunday had a finger stained with purple ink to prove they had cast their ballot.
The images of brave people willing to carry an obvious sign that they were defying the insurgents have been seen all over the world. Louisiana Congressman Bobby Jindal wants to demonstrate his solidarity with those Iraqi voters. He plans to dip his finger in purple ink before tonight's State of the Union address. If I were there -- and I won't be there -- I would have done the same.
The Republican representative says he'll have the ink available for any of his colleagues who want to support the Iraqis and other people in the world seeking freedom. I'm wondering how many Democrats will follow suit tonight and choose to deny what -- or choose to deny what happened on Sunday in Iraq was a major, major victory.
BEGALA: Well, I'd say it sounds a bit like a stunt to me, Reverend. if Bobby Jindal, who is I think the youngest member of Congress, is so all fired up about this war, why didn't he enlist? We have got 150,000 of our finest young men and women over there. They need an exit strategy, not a stunt from a congressman on the House floor.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
FALWELL: Well, I don't know Bobby Jindal, but I admire the fact that he is doing something.
(BELL RINGING)
FALWELL: You know, I wish I had thought of it before I came on the show today. That's a great idea. And I hope that even some of the Democrats will dip their finger in the ink and admit that millions of Iraqis for the first time in their lifetime voted. Half of them were women. Something like that happened in Afghanistan recently. It is something that hasn't happened in the world before. God bless George W. Bush.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, we will have plenty to debate about that.
Speaking of our president, remember how, in last year's State of the Union address, President Bush declared war on steroids? I found that ironic, since, when he owned the Texas Rangers, Mr. Bush traded for Jose Canseco, who was known as the Typhoid Mary of steroids.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: So, what will be this year's goofy idea from the president? Well, here's a thought. Wage war on long hair, Mr. President. See, right-wingers have always hated long hair on men, other than Jesus, that is.
And look at Johnny Damon of the Boston Red Sox. Why, Mr. President, he looks like a caveman. I have to admit, I got the idea from another world leader who is often misunderestimated as the hapless son of the former leader, Kim Jong Il of North Korea.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: The Associated Re -- press -- the Associated Press, that is, reports that the communist dictator is waging war on long hair, ordering hirsute comrades to get a haircut. The beloved leader himself has reportedly trimmed his famous pompadour. He may be leading the axis of evil, but at least he believes in personal grooming.
I do hope the president doesn't sink to the kind of stunts he did last year with steroids, Reverend. I hope he keeps...
(CROSSTALK)
FALWELL: Well, you and I don't have any problems. Mine is quite thin and yours is not doing badly.
But I'm not hung up on hair. At Liberty, however, we do require the boys to have just one head of hair. It's a lot easier than have to -- having medical examinations to decide -- determine the boys from the girls.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, that's your policy.
FALWELL: One thing that won't be in tonight's State of the Union address is a presidential statement celebrating the confirmation of Alberto Gonzales as attorney general. And that's because Democrats are holding up the vote.
(APPLAUSE)
FALWELL: Senate Democrats have been talking about trying to stop the confirmation with a filibuster. But they are backing off that threat, fortunately.
Now, to keep the president from having one more success to talk about tonight, they are still acting to delay the confirmation. Democrats say their issue is Gonzales' role in putting together the administration's policy on how prisoners taken in the war on terrorism are treated, including whether torture can be used. This is a pointless delay. The Republicans majority in the Senate will confirm Gonzales easily.
Minority Leader Harry Reid doesn't even think all the Democrats -- there are some bright ones -- will vote against him. So, in other words, the Democrats have been reduced to holding up business by debating the inevitable, a practice they do very well.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, I have to say, I think, ultimately, they should confirm Judge Gonzales. But I don't have a problem with asking tough questions about really outrageous legal interpretations that Gonzales had. At the end of the day, he's the president's guy. He should go there.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: And I'm angry with the Democrats who voted with Condoleezza Rice, who lied to us. Al Gonzales never lied to us.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Condi Rice lied to us. And she is unfit for her job.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But I say give Judge Gonzales a proclamation.
FALWELL: You elected Bill Clinton president. What is the trouble with lying?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Well, he lied about a girlfriend. She lied about a war. Big difference.
FALWELL: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, anyway, how secure is your retirement future? Well, tonight, President Bush will present his plan to try to privatize part of Social Security. He will have quite a sales job ahead of him, since no Democrats currently support it. And a couple of prominent Republicans look like they may oppose it. We will debate Mr. Bush's hard sell in the CROSSFIRE.
And then later, who would you invite to sit with the first lady if you were president? Reverend Falwell and I will have our ideas later. ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
You know, tonight is one of the few times all year when our president gets to talk to the entire country without knuckleheads -- well, knuckleheads like me, I guess, telling you what to think about it. So how will he use his moment in the spotlight?
Today in the CROSSFIRE, two members of Congress who will be in the historic House Chamber for tonight's address. They are both from California, where the politicians are just more interesting than most places.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Republican Congressman Darrell Issa, Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez.
Good to see you both.
REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: Thanks. Thanks for having us on.
BEGALA: Reverend.
FALWELL: Loretta, it is likely that President Bush in his second term will get one, two, maybe three opportunities to appoint nominees to the U.S. Supreme Court, possible. And Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid just said that if he sends the same judges through as last time, they will get the same type of treatment, which I assume means obstruct, filibuster, etcetera.
The question I have for you is, if in fact the president does send the same ones through, should the Democratic senators impose a pro-choice litmus test on those nominees?
SANCHEZ: Oh, I don't believe there should be a litmus test about many things on those nominees.
But I think that they should be forthcoming about how they feel about particular cases, so that we have some inkling of whether they are going to be good on civil rights, on privacy issues, I think things that are very, very strong to Americans.
FALWELL: So it wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? It wouldn't bother you if they were pro-life? SANCHEZ: Hey, you know, there are a lot of pro-life members in my family. And, you know, I still hang out with them. So...
FALWELL: You haven't answered the question.
BEGALA: Well, and, in fact...
REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIFORNIA: She does support a litmus test, is what she's...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me turn around and ask you if you do. I think Democrats are less guilty of the litmus test here. For example, the new leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid, is pro-life. I don't see pro-choice leading the Republican Party. There seems to be...
(APPLAUSE)
ISSA: What about Tom Davis?
BEGALA: Tom Davis?
ISSA: He's very pro-choice.
SANCHEZ: I think they're leaving the Republican Party.
BEGALA: The judges that the president has sent up...
(CROSSTALK)
FALWELL: Well, I have a litmus test. I want pro-life, pro- family judges on the Supreme Court.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Why doesn't the president say that? Why doesn't -- I admire your candor. Why doesn't the president tell the truth and say that and say, I won't appoint anyone to the bench who doesn't want to criminalize abortion? That's the truth. Why doesn't he tell the truth?
ISSA: Because that's simply not -- that's simply not his test.
BEGALA: He has had 100 judges. Can you name who is pro-choice?
ISSA: He has asked for -- he has asked for and gone through a whole vetting process. And I can specifically, as Loretta can, speak about California. That vetting process included Senator Feinstein. That vetting process was about qualified judges for the courts.
And that has been his litmus test, is people who will fair -- who have the intellect to do it, the experience to do it, and will fairly interpret the laws as they are. And that's all he's asked for. And that's what Republicans are asking for, is the letter of the law is all we're looking for. And we've been denied it repeatedly by the threat of filibuster in the Senate. And that has been a litmus test against anyone who got too conservative, even if they were incredibly capable and bright.
SANCHEZ: I don't believe that America wants their judges to be too conservative.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: I believe that they believe -- that that they believe in civil rights.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: That they believe in privacy, that, you know, our court has served us well because there have been people who have been central figures, who have been in the middle of issues, have decided things 5-4 or 4-5.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: Look, that's wonderful, Loretta, but that's not the facts on the ground.
The facts on the ground are that you have judges that would have gotten 70 and 80 votes, including Democrat votes, who were simply agreed to be kept by filibuster. If you bring it to the vote and you get 55 votes, that's the will of the people, not when you hold it back.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: And no doubt the president will raise that tonight. And I think it's important to discuss it.
ISSA: As well he should.
BEGALA: But I think the centerpiece of his domestic agenda seems to be a plan to partially privatize Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: No. The center of his is...
BEGALA: Of course it is.
ISSA: The center of his is in fact to provide personal ownership over people's retirement.
BEGALA: But that's Orwellian doublespeak, sir.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: It's not Orwellian. BEGALA: He's trying to privatize Social Security.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... tell the truth?
ISSA: Right now, Loretta and I control the lockbox. And he's offering 115 million people the keys to their individual lockboxes.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
FALWELL: And, Loretta, the Quinnipiac poll January 25 to 31 on investing Social Security taxes in the stock market, they asked the question, how do you describe the Social Security system today? Sixty-seven percent said in crisis or in serious problems. Why not let the American people make their own mind up where their money is invested?
(APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: The American people get to make up their own mind where it's invested. They have got 401(k)s. They have got TSP plans if they are in the federal government.
ISSA: That's after the first 13 percent is taken involuntarily away from them, spent by the government and then an IOU put in place.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me ask you -- let me just ask you a very much simple...
SANCHEZ: No, no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
SANCHEZ: They actually have a guaranteed benefit. Every person who works in America for a certain amount of time has a guaranteed benefit. That means...
ISSA: Show me the money.
SANCHEZ: That whether you have...
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: ... that whether you have loss, whether you grow broke, that you have a guaranteed benefit, which means you will not end up in poverty most likely when you get old.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Let me get you both on the record. Congressman Issa, will you pledge to oppose any effort by President Bush to cut the guaranteed benefit for present or future retirees?
ISSA: I guarantee that we will keep our guarantee to retirees. Your definition of cut, unfortunately, might include not continuing to index ahead of the rate of inflection, which the commission, which included Republicans and Democrats...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I only speak English, a little bit of Spanish, but was that a yes or no, sir? Will you pledge not to cut benefits?
ISSA: I will pledge to keep our promise to the seniors, which includes, which includes that retirement. It does not include indexes greater than the rate of inflation. And, as you know...
SANCHEZ: It currently does include that.
ISSA: No, the pledge doesn't. The current law does.
And choosing the right index is part of what the bipartisan Social Security Commission said needed to be done to fix the system.
BEGALA: We're going to have to take a quick break, Congressman Issa, Congresswoman Sanchez. Keep your seat. Hang on just a second.
When we come back, we'll shift the focus overseas and debate the pleasant -- president's, that is, plans for the rest of the world just ahead.
And then Wolf Blitzer will have the latest on the condition of Pope John Paul II right after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer reporting from Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, President Bush gets ready for tonight's State of the Union address. We'll get a preview from the White House press secretary, Scott McClellan.
The Vatican says Pope John Paul II's condition has stabilized. Coming up, we'll get a live report. We'll go to the hospital in Rome.
And a failed takeoff near New York. A corporate jet slams into cars and a building.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS." Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf, for that update. Look forward to your report at the top of the hour. Here on CROSSFIRE, we're talking about the State of the Union address. President Bush is expected to tell Americans tonight that, while there is a big crisis in Social Security, there is really no crisis in Iraq. Can the leader of the free world lead the American people to stay the course in that country?
Still with us, Republican Congressman -- both from California -- Darrell Issa. He is the Republican. And Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, also from California, and Reverend Jerry Falwell.
FALWELL: Loretta, tonight, sitting in the House gallery with the first lady, among others, will be two recent voters who voted for the first time in their lives, one from Afghanistan, one from Iraq.
And the millions in the last four months who have voted for the first time in their life, half of them have been women, who now have been invited to the human race. They are on equal standing with the men there. My question is, how do you explain the deafening silence of America's feminists?
SANCHEZ: Oh, I think it's incredibly wonderful that, in particular, in the Middle East, we have had three elections actually in the last month by those populations.
ISSA: Palestinian Authority.
SANCHEZ: Because don't forget the Palestinian Authority.
FALWELL: You haven't my question, though, yet.
SANCHEZ: I'm just saying, I think it's exciting. I think it's great. And...
(CROSSTALK)
FALWELL: Well, you are the first feminist I have heard say that and only under pressure on CROSSFIRE.
SANCHEZ: And the women of the Congress applaud that. We have gone back to Afghanistan. We have gone into Iraq. We've met with the women. We're really excited. We're excited that they were on the ballots.
FALWELL: I hope CROSSFIRE will take that bite and play it over and over and over.
BEGALA: I do, too.
SANCHEZ: We're excited.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But let me say for the record, for the record, it was American senators who were raising concerns about the Taliban long before September 11.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: I heard Hillary say that at Tufts University. The problem was, she was married to the president and she raised it without doing anything about it throughout the Clinton administration. So, saying it was raised isn't good enough.
BEGALA: We can attack -- you can attack Bill Clinton all you like. But let me ask you about President Bush tonight.
SANCHEZ: No, no, no. Wait a minute.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Just a second. Excuse me, Congresswoman. Excuse me.
SANCHEZ: The Women's Feminist Majority of Los Angeles, the wife of Jay Leno...
BEGALA: Mavis Leno.
SANCHEZ: ... were actually the people in the beginning, the women in the beginning who were pushing it in the state legislatures, etcetera.
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ISSA: I just want to say, where was Hillary until she made a speech saying she was there?
BEGALA: Let me ask you about our president. He'll be standing tonight in that historic chamber.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Standing at...
ISSA: The senators will be sitting. We'll be standing.
BEGALA: The president will be standing delivering a speech.
And as he makes the pledges and promises that he makes, aren't you worried, when he talks about Iraq, that people will remember that he said there were weapons of mass destruction, when there were none, that there were chemical weapons, when there were none, that there were biological weapons, when there were none, that there was a nuclear program, when there were none, that there were links to al Qaeda, when there were none?
Doesn't our president have a credibility crisis now when he talks about Iraq?
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: No, he doesn't. FALWELL: But Mr. Clinton told him that when he took over the office.
ISSA: He doesn't have one.
BEGALA: Really?
ISSA: Because he made the difference of a vote. He made the difference of Saddam being in power, out of power. And the things you're talking about, President Clinton absolutely called for in 1998, made the same claims. Look...
BEGALA: Did not lead us to war. No Americans died, because there were no -- there was no threat.
ISSA: You're right. He said there were tragedies, this man was a great danger. He called for regime change, and he did nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.
BEGALA: There was no threat.
SANCHEZ: He told us there were weapons of mass destruction. He went over a line and he invaded a country, the first time we have done that in our history.
FALWELL: Thank God he did.
ISSA: And thank God he did.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
ISSA: You know, look, you can't have it both ways. You can't call for regime change and then not do it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Just a second.
Yes, Ronald Reagan called for regime change in the Soviet Union, but he wasn't fool enough to invade, OK? Bill Clinton called for regime change here and had sanctions, bombings...
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: And I know you were solidly there for him when he called for it.
BEGALA: Yes, I was. Sanctions, bombings and...
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: What happened to you since then?
BEGALA: ... was the policy that we had under Bush Sr.
FALWELL: FDR called for regime change in Tokyo and Berlin. And thank God he did attack.
BEGALA: Oh, but this guy wasn't Hitler. Oh, my goodness.
SANCHEZ: Well, we were invaded.
BEGALA: This guy was a tin horn dictator.
SANCHEZ: We were invaded and we were attacked in World War II. That's the difference.
(CROSSTALK)
ISSA: Because he only killed two million people.
SANCHEZ: No, no, no, no.
BEGALA: He was no threat to America.
SANCHEZ: You know -- and what people don't understand is, we have paid a cost.
The only time -- and this is my true belief. If you go back and you look at this, the only time that we should send soldiers in and ask our soldiers to give up their lives, to tell them, I needed you, is for our own freedom and for America's freedom.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: That has to be the last word.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez, Congressman Darrell Issa, both from California.
ISSA: We're there for the freedom of the world. And that's part of our mandate.
BEGALA: We'll have to continue this debate...
SANCHEZ: No, it's not.
BEGALA: ... as they wait for the president to give his address tonight.
Thank you both for joining us.
Well, who would you invite to come share your big night if you were delivering the State of the Union address? Well, Reverend Falwell and I have some interesting ideas of who we would put in the first lady's box. We will share them with you next. FALWELL: Exactly. You're right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
Presidents have a tradition at the State of the Union address of placing very important guests in the first lady's box. So, Reverend Falwell and I thought, well, who would we pick?
And, Reverend, let me go first.
I think President Bush should put you in that box. And here's why. Your followers got him reelected. But now he treats you like junkyard dogs. He sits with his big rich cronies. He goes to fancy black-tie dinners with the rich.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But he doesn't want to deal with the conservative activists who actually elected him. And I think you ought to take him on for using you all the way he does.
FALWELL: I don't have a better friend in the world than Mr. Bush or his father.
And just opposite of what -- let me tell you who I would invite. I would invite Michael Moore. I want to sit right by him, so I could...
(CROSSTALK)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I would love that. You would actually get a proper response then. Michael Moore actually might show some footage of, say, the president reading a book about goats.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Anyway, that will be the last word.
From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
Stay with CNN tonight for extensive coverage of the president's State of the Union address beginning at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. I'll be blogging during the speech and commenting before and after.
FALWELL: And from the right, I'm Jerry Falwell.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
