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CNN Crossfire
Bush Administration Hits the Road
Aired February 04, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville; sitting in on the right, Joe Watkins.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Bush administration's top guns hit the road. In Europe, new Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has tough words for Iran about its nuclear ambitions.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: It is the Iranians who are isolated if they wish to continue to go down this path.
ANNOUNCER: What will the U.S. do if Iran doesn't respond? And can the new secretary of state forge tighter bonds with European allies?
Closer to home, President Bush piles on the miles as he continues his push for Social Security reform.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I'm going to spend a lot of time traveling our country talking about the problem, because I fully understand that, in the halls of Congress, if people do not believe we have a problem, nothing's going to happen.
ANNOUNCER: Are Americans buying the president's plan?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Joe Watkins.
(APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush is wrapping up his two-day road trip to sell initiatives laid out in his State of the Union address, most notably, his controversial Social Security plan. Meanwhile, Condoleezza Rice is on the front end of her first trip overseas as secretary of state, taking her to the Europe -- taking her to Europe and the Middle East. Will these two be able to convince skeptics by taking their missions on the road?
We'll debate all that in just a few minutes.
Sitting on the right today is Republican strategist Joe Watkins.
First, though, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The media are reporting today that preliminary election results from Iraq show that a big and insurmountable lead has gone to Shiite parties dominated by religious groups with strong links to Iran, in fact, 72 percent. Hold on. I'm flummoxed, confused, dazed. We spent a half-a-trillion dollars, over 10,000 wounded, 1,400 killed, got ourselves in a quagmire we don't know how to get the hell out of, antagonized world opinion, divided the country, all to create a government that is aligned with a totalitarian and fundamentalist regime that is producing nuclear weapons.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Man, if this is winning, I don't want to know what defeat looks like.
JOE WATKINS, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, we do know how to get out. We are already going to be bringing home 15,000 troops, which is good news.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: And the elections last Sunday were a huge victory not only for America, but, more importantly, for Iraq and for freedom.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: For Iran. Huge for Iran.
Wait. No. How -- let me ask you this. If we -- for Iran -- the secretary of state is saying Iran has nuclear weapons, when we have now funded and created an Iran-friendly government.
(BELL RINGING)
WATKINS: Absolutely not. The Sunnis are going to be involved in forming this brand new government. Wait and see.
CARVILLE: Forming doing what?
WATKINS: Absolutely.
CARVILLE: Like, the Democrats are for -- involved in forming this government? What the hell -- they got nothing to do.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: We done trade a half-a-trillion dollars for a pro-Iran government.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: A little history was quietly made today. Alberto Gonzales, President Bush's former White House counsel, began his new job. The new attorney general was welcomed by about 200 Justice Department employees, who gathered this morning outside his new office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Obviously, the president has said that the No. 1 priority for the department is to protect this country against future acts of terrorism. And we will continue to make that our top priority. But we'll do so in a way that is always consistent with our values and consistent with our legal obligations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATKINS: Gonzales is the first Hispanic ever to serve as attorney general. I know he is going to do a great job. I'm happy the Senate saw fit to pass him.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Great news. Great news. Great guy.
CARVILLE: Well, did they torture anybody today? Did they stick any like matches -- you know, burnt matches under somebody's fingernails or something? I don't know. He seemed like -- he seemed confused when he was talking there, just like he was confused when he was in the White House.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: He has a great career. He has a great career. He served as a justice in the Texas Supreme Court.
CARVILLE: Right. Right.
WATKINS: He has got a great career.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: And he set up that torture is now an American value.
Yesterday, my colleague Paul Begala quoted a "Washington Post" the fact that anybody who made contributions to private accounts would be forced to give the government that amount back, plus 3 percent. A lot of idiotic right-wingers sent us e-mails saying that can't be true.
So, in an effort to be accurate, I contacted Jonathan Weisman, "The Post" reporter who wrote the story. He said, you actually don't have to write a check to the government. They just dock your Social Security account that much. "The Washington Post" set the record straight today. And we wanted to as well.
It's still the same. Whether they -- whatever you put in, they taketh away, plus 3 percent.
WATKINS: Well, you know, at the end of the day, I think Congressman Harold Ford had it right.
CARVILLE: Right.
WATKINS: Which is to say that, if the Democrats are going to oppose this, they have to do more than just say no. They have got to give us something.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: The president says, let's come up with a plan that helps America and that saves Americans and future generations.
CARVILLE: If we get a plan that stinks, it don't save anything for future generations. It's a stinky plan.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: The question, should the Democrats do something is one thing. The fact that the Democrats ought to do something don't make this plan anything but what it is.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: Well, I think the plan works. A majority of Americans want to have private investment accounts. They want to have a chance to control their own investment futures.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: Why do 35 percent approve of this turkey?
Look, you know what? I was taught in Louisiana don't speak ill of the dead. So I don't know if I ought to be talking about this Social Security...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: It is going to work. It is going to work.
Can you say Democratic national chairman Dean? You better get used to it. New Democratic Network founder Simon Rosenberg today withdrew his name from contention for the DNC's top post. What's more, he endorsed, you guessed it, former presidential candidate and former Vermont Governor Howard Dean.
This means that Dean is pretty much a shoo-in for the job when party brass meet to choose the Dems' next leader. Sure, Dean is a prominent image. Sure, he's got good organizational skills, but Dean is a liberal loose cannon. The party had better keep a close watch on him, unless that -- the front -- that's the front man they're looking for.
I for one am delighted, as I'm sure many Republicans are.
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: With Dean running the show, the Democratic Party is bound to stay right where it is, out of power.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: You know, if I was a Republican, I'd be delighted by this whole process, too. This was idiotic that the party leaders couldn't get together back in November, who knew this was coming up, and say, hey, this is the person we're for. It's just a party chair. It's supposed to be a rigged thing. And the fact that this thing drug out like...
(BELL RINGING)
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I'm serious. Democrats...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Good for you, James Carville. Good for you.
CARVILLE: Democrats around the country should be, should be angry with their party that we had to drag this thing out like that. And the party elders back then should have come up and told people like me and Democrats around the country, this is our person. We would have gladly coalesced behind whoever that person was, as opposed to this horrible process that we have just been through.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: President Bush and Secretary -- and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on the road promoting the administration's policies. Just how convincing will their (UNINTELLIGIBLE) (ph) be? We'll debate that just ahead.
And later, it's Super Bowl weekend. We're going to talk to a couple of congressmen willing to put their dignity on the line to support their hometown teams.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Whether it's President Bush crisscrossing the United States or Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice crossing the Atlantic, the administration is pressing its policies well outside the Beltway. How successful will they be? joining us today in the CROSSFIRE, Ann Lewis, communications director for HILLPAC, a political action committee chaired by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, and Republican strategist Frank Donatelli.
Welcome, both of you, to CROSSFIRE.
FRANK DONATELLI, FORMER REAGAN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Thanks for joining us.
DONATELLI: Thank you.
CARVILLE: Frank, Secretary of State Rice is overseas taking a hard line against Iran. And it's very likely that we might have to go to war with Iran.
How will American people react after spending a half-trillion dollars and losing almost 1,500 people and 10,000 wounded when the Iraqi government sides with Iran in a war against the United States, which is going to happen?
DONATELLI: I disagree with that entirely.
CARVILLE: Well, what...
DONATELLI: I heard you in the earlier segment...
CARVILLE: Right.
DONATELLI: ... say that they were about to elect a government in Iraq that is sympathetic to Iran.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I didn't say that. I didn't say that. It's all over the press. I was reporting...
DONATELLI: It was a misleading headline in "The New York Times."
CARVILLE: How?
DONATELLI: It was misleading, because the Iraqi Shiites aren't the same as the Iranian Shiites. They've been persecuted.
CARVILLE: They didn't say they were. They said they were sympathetic.
DONATELLI: They've been persecuted by Saddam Hussein. We're going to have more Sunni participation. There are a lot...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Iran went to war with Saddam -- Frank, Frank, Iran went to war with Saddam Hussein. Don't throw that canard in. We have elected a pro- -- we are supporting a pro-Iranian government.
DONATELLI: That's false. That's false.
CARVILLE: Well, of course not. Sistani hasn't even spoken to us.
DONATELLI: We haven't even had the constitution written yet. There are many, many safeguards in the constitution-writing process to guarantee human rights. I have to say, you are a nattering nabob of negativism.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: A nattering nabob...
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Thank you for Spiro Agnew. I'm saying to you, how is it going to play out there when Iraq and Iran are together against the United States?
WATKINS: Ann Lewis, here's a question for you. The sad thing to me is that it seems that the Democrats just want to try to pour water on anything good that the Republicans do. Now, tell me, are Democrats just looking for anything they can to claim that the elections in Iraq were not successful?
ANN LEWIS, NATIONAL CHAIR, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER: No.
Let me tell you, Democrats do believe in elections. We want to cheer, as many Americans did, for the right reasons. It's great to see people voting for the first time. I'm thrilled to see women running as candidates in Iraq, as they did in Afghanistan. That's moving a step forward. We just also want to be realistic and get back to what's in the national interest of our country.
And let us point out that, when, last week, some Democrats said, now that the election is over, perhaps it's time to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, what we heard from the other side, from the administration, was, oh, you can't say that. This week, we hear from the administration...
WATKINS: Do you agree with Ted Kennedy or do you agree with Bill Clinton?
LEWIS: No, what I'm saying...
WATKINS: Ted Kennedy is saying we need to pull out right away.
LEWIS: No. Let me repeat, it is Donald Rumsfeld, as I understand it, who now says, well, now, we're going to pull out 15,000 troops. I'd like to see a single standard.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Well, these are 15,000 people who were kept over the time they were supposed to be there.
LEWIS: That's right.
And I do agree with President Clinton. We have got to have a safe, secure situation.
WATKINS: Absolutely.
LEWIS: We have got to look at what is in the best interests of the United States.
WATKINS: That's correct.
LEWIS: We cannot walk away and leave a failed state that is another haven for terrorists.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: So, let me get this straight, because I'm very -- what's very interesting is, if you -- it is impossible to support -- support an election and dislike the outcome? That's what you're saying.
DONATELLI: No, I'm...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Because I say don't like the outcome of having a pro- Iranian religious parties getting 72 percent of the vote, then I don't support democracy.
DONATELLI: No, that's not what I'm saying. You're...
CARVILLE: Well, what are you saying?
(APPLAUSE)
DONATELLI: I'm saying you're...
CARVILLE: You like the outcome? You're glad we have a pro- Iranian, religious...
DONATELLI: I'm saying -- I'm saying you're prejudging the outcome. We don't know what the outcome is going to be yet.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I know Bush got elected. I know what the hell -- I know who he is.
(APPLAUSE)
DONATELLI: James, we have 10 percent of the vote in right now. We don't know. These are people that are going to write a constitution. There are many safeguards in there.
CARVILLE: How there's safeguards? They...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... constitution yet.
DONATELLI: And, remember, to pick the president takes two- thirds. The Kurds are going to have a say. The Sunnis are now saying they're going to participate. Why are you being so negative?
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: We have to -- I agree with Ann. We have to be successful.
CARVILLE: So you're saying the Shias may not win. You're saying the Shias may not win. They may not be religious...
DONATELLI: No, I'm not saying that it is not a pro-Iranian government. It will be a Shiite majority. But why do you automatically assume that that's pro-Iranian?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm saying what -- I'm saying what -- I'm saying -- I'm saying what the press said, with close ties to Iran.
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: It's "The New York Times." Don't confuse "The New York Times" with the press.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Everybody knows these guys -- everybody knows that these guys -- everybody knows that they're going to be linked. And there was very little Sunni participation, by the way, of which of course...
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: And the Sunnis have now said that they are going to participate in drafting a constitution.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Right. We'll see.
WATKINS: Ann Lewis, we all know that President Bush right now is on a road trip. And he's talking about Social Security. Now, I think that Democrats -- and I want to get your opinion on this. Don't Democrats have to do what Congressman Harold Ford from Tennessee is saying? Congressman Ford is -- he is one of the bright lights in the Congress -- is saying that Democrats have to do more than just say no. They've got to propose a plan of their own or at least share with Americans what they see in terms of solving the Social Security problem.
LEWIS: I share your admiration for Congressman Ford. And we should be clear that he rejects President Bush's plan to privatize Social Security and take money out of the trust fund.
Now, what do Democrats say?
WATKINS: Yes.
LEWIS: They say, let's look at our principles.
You know what the first principle is? It's like the Hippocratic oath that doctors take. First, do no harm. Now we can begin from there.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Of course do no harm. But we know that the system is going to fail down the line.
LEWIS: What did Bill Clinton -- what did Bill -- what did Bill Clinton do? What did Bill Clinton do? He grew the economy. He turned what had been a deficit into a surplus. And he said, now we can use this to strengthen Social Security.
WATKINS: That's what George Bush is doing, growing the economy.
LEWIS: No, here's what George Bush did.
CARVILLE: Oh, really?
WATKINS: Absolutely.
CARVILLE: It's growing?
WATKINS: It's growing.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: He turned a surplus into the biggest deficit we have ever had.
(APPLAUSE)
LEWIS: And he says, now that we have got this big deficit, let's take a trillion dollars out of Social Security, taking us in the wrong direction. You know the first step? Do no harm. Get back to...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... of fiscal responsibility.
WATKINS: So you're saying that it's the wrong direction to try to fix Social Security, to deal with this issue now, to put it off and let other generations worry about it?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: No. The right direction is to get back on the path of fiscal responsibility, so we have a stronger economy, so we get away from these trillion-dollar deficits. Don't make it worse.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Let me ask you a question about the U.S. here. There was a report in the paper today that the -- that when President Bush went to North Dakota, that people, that the chief executive of Democracy Radio was not allowed, because he produced a show, that other people, Linda -- City Commissioner Linda Coates, whose husband is on that list.
Do you know if these people were a threat, a physical threat to the president? Did the Secret Service keep them off of this list? Or were they kept off for political views?
DONATELLI: That would be shocking, if that were the case, right?
I assume it was an audience where it took a ticket to be invited. And there were people that were already in the show.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: But, again, why...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: That was done by volunteers. Volunteers did this.
CARVILLE: But, again, you're telling me the White House doesn't -- it was like, we didn't put up "Mission Accomplished," when they said of course they did?
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: You know, James...
CARVILLE: Is there any reason in the world that you would believe anything this White House said? Give me one thing that they have ever told the truth on.
WATKINS: The Iraqi elections would work.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: The Iraqi elections would work. And they did.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: ... pro-Iranian government.
DONATELLI: And that Social Security is going bankrupt unless we do something.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Name one sane person that believes that Social Security is...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: And a taxpayer-funded event -- taxpayer-funded events are no longer open to every American taxpayer. These are not political campaign rallies. These are events that are being paid for by the American taxpayer.
WATKINS: Absolutely.
LEWIS: And yet you're going to have a political loyalty list before you can get in the door. That is wrong.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: The White House didn't do that. The White House didn't do that. We all know that was done by volunteers.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... perhaps. Nobody knows who did this, right? You put on a White House event. Joe, I have worked for presidents.
WATKINS: Me, too. I worked in the White House, too.
LEWIS: You worked on a White House event. And some...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: You have volunteers that work for the White House, the White House staffs.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... anonymous person gives you a list and you don't know where it comes from? Please.
CARVILLE: Do you think -- do you think that anybody, anybody -- I don't care how stupid -- a person with an I.Q. of 10 -- believes that the president of the United States goes to North Dakota and the White House doesn't control the event, that it's just sort of nice lady sitting around a tea that sort of designs this?
(APPLAUSE)
LEWIS: Right.
CARVILLE: And the White House -- I mean, come on.
Both of you, look in the camera and say, no, the White House really doesn't control an event in North Dakota. It's just a sort of Republican ladies club that does.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I mean, come on.
WATKINS: I thought it was.
CARVILLE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: That's our point.
CARVILLE: Give us your kind of spin that -- you know what I mean? But don't tell us that. That's just ludicrous.
Only the U.S. -- the national press corps would believe something that stupid.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Go ahead.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: The idea is like...
WATKINS: Well, Ann Lewis, shouldn't Democrats of these states that voted to reject President Bush take a warning from what happened to Tom Daschle?
LEWIS: You know, they're going to look what happened in this last election. And what was the message? The message was, when it comes to election time, Republicans are going to try to defeat Democrats. You take a congressman like Charlie Stenholm. Try to beat him.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: We're so glad you're here. We're running out of time. I want to thank our two guests.
CARVILLE: Eagles, Pats.
DONATELLI: Twenty-seven/seventeen, New England.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: I want other thank our friends Ann Lewis and Frank Donatelli. LEWIS: I'm from New England, but I'll do a tossup.
WATKINS: And next, two congressmen supporting hometown teams in the Super Bowl. Find out what they're willing to bet.
And right after the break, Wolf Blitzer shows us a little of the super security being put in place for the Super Bowl.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, terror concerns at JFK Airport. Authorities take action following a hijack threat.
And security is tight in Jacksonville, Florida, as fans gather for Sunday's Super Bowl.
His politically and racially charged bouts with Joe Louis are among the most famous fights in history. Max Schmeling is now dead at the age of 99.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: Now time to shift our attention to a very, very important matter. The Super Bowl is coming up this Sunday. This year, the Philadelphia Eagles and the New England Patriots will battle it out for the whole bowl of wax. Boy, what a cliche.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: We're joined by a couple of congressmen who have agreed to a little more than a gentleman's wager on Sunday's matchup. And there are no party lines to cross here. They're both Democrats.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Welcome, Congressmen.
CARVILLE: Massachusetts Represent Marty Meehan is in Boston. And Representative Robert Brady of Pennsylvania is in Philadelphia.
WATKINS: Welcome, Congressmen, to the CROSSFIRE.
Listen, gentlemen, what's the bet? What is this bet that you guys made?
REP. ROBERT BRADY (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, we got a bet that -- I got the Eagles helmet right here. We have a bet that, when the Eagles win, not if, when the Eagles win, that my dear friend Marty has to wear the Eagles helmet all around Washington for all of next week.
And, Marty, you noticed I took the face mask off, because I had the one with the face mask on. But we want to see your pretty face when you have it on top of your head. I don't want to have the face mask covering it.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: Couldn't you guys just do like lobster and cheese steaks? I mean, why the helmets?
R. BRADY: Well, there's too much food being bet around. I got a lot of -- we also have a bet with the Massachusetts delegation, that I have got to feed them a Philadelphia cheese steak lunch if -- well, it won't happen -- if they happen to win. And they're going to give us lobsters or lobster rolls or some kind of chowder, I think. I don't know what -- they don't have much that I want to eat up there, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Well, Bobby, you know, I spent a lot of...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Go ahead, Marty. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
REP. MARTY MEEHAN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The big challenge that I face is, I have to get a New England Patriots helmet big enough for Bob to wear. That's the big challenge I have.
(LAUGHTER)
MEEHAN: Because New England is going to win this game.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Go ahead.
R. BRADY: Well, you know what?
(CROSSTALK)
R. BRADY: I brought my wife with me. She used to be an Eagles' cheerleader. Just to say hello to you. And she is my good luck charm. She was an Eagles cheerleader for five years. And she is my good luck charm. And she is going to bring them Eagles right back again, right back home.
(CROSSTALK)
DEBRA BRADY, WIFE OF ROBERT BRADY: Hi, Marty. How are you? (CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Marty, I have got Philadelphia in the game. If Philadelphia wins, I want you to take me to dinner at Locke-Ober. Somebody has got to pay for it, though. It's too expensive...
(CROSSTALK)
MEEHAN: One thing about Bob Brady, you've got to admit, one thing about Bob Brady, he definitely married up, didn't he?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Oh, he did marry up. Look at that.
WATKINS: He did indeed.
CARVILLE: Bob Brady and I have that in common. We're two ugly guys with gorgeous wives.
(LAUGHTER)
R. BRADY: Yes.
CARVILLE: Absolutely.
D. BRADY: Thank you.
R. BRADY: Marty, your wife is a lovely lady. Your wife is a lovely lady, too. She must have had a bad moment or two to marry you.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Bob Brady -- you and I are on the same team, Bob Brady. You're a Democrat. I'm a Republican. But this time, we're both rooting for the Eagles, man. So I'm with you, man, all the way.
R. BRADY: Well, I got you out of sin temporarily. That's all.
(LAUGHTER)
R. BRADY: You got to be for the Eagles.
CARVILLE: All right. Marty, tell us, what do you think the final score is going to be?
MEEHAN: I think it's going to be 34-24 New England. Sorry about that, because I know you like to bet.
Look, New England is the best team in the league. The AFC is a much better conference than the NFC.
WATKINS: Thanks so much, guys.
MEEHAN: And, frankly...
CARVILLE: Thank you all.
MEEHAN: We're going to win this.
WATKINS: Thanks so much for joining us.
CARVILLE: Take the Eagles and the points. Take the under.
WATKINS: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said she wants to be commissioner of the NFL one day. We'll tell you who she is predicting will win the Super Bowl Sunday and share our own picks as well just ahead.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARVILLE: The truth be told, secretary of state isn't really Condoleezza Rice. It's an all-time dream job. She has said that many times what she really wants to do when she grows up is be NFL commissioner. Secretary Rice is a huge football fan. She is picking the New England Patriots to win with a field goal in the last quarter.
Actually, that would be fine for me, because I say take Philadelphia and the seven and also take the under, 47 1/2. That's Carville's recommendation. If you follow that, you will probably lose, because I generally do, too. But I hope they win it with a last-second field goal.
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: I like Condi Rice, but I love the Philadelphia Eagles. And I am predicting the Eagles win 28-14.
CARVILLE: All good for me. I don't care if..
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: You have heard it here on CROSSFIRE first from me, Joe Watkins.
CARVILLE: All right.
WATKINS: Eagle-loving -- Eagles-loving Joe Watkins.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
WATKINS: From the right, I'm Joe Watkins, the lover of the Philadelphia Eagles. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. (APPLAUSE)
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Aired February 4, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville; sitting in on the right, Joe Watkins.
In the CROSSFIRE: The Bush administration's top guns hit the road. In Europe, new Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has tough words for Iran about its nuclear ambitions.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: It is the Iranians who are isolated if they wish to continue to go down this path.
ANNOUNCER: What will the U.S. do if Iran doesn't respond? And can the new secretary of state forge tighter bonds with European allies?
Closer to home, President Bush piles on the miles as he continues his push for Social Security reform.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And I'm going to spend a lot of time traveling our country talking about the problem, because I fully understand that, in the halls of Congress, if people do not believe we have a problem, nothing's going to happen.
ANNOUNCER: Are Americans buying the president's plan?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Joe Watkins.
(APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush is wrapping up his two-day road trip to sell initiatives laid out in his State of the Union address, most notably, his controversial Social Security plan. Meanwhile, Condoleezza Rice is on the front end of her first trip overseas as secretary of state, taking her to the Europe -- taking her to Europe and the Middle East. Will these two be able to convince skeptics by taking their missions on the road?
We'll debate all that in just a few minutes.
Sitting on the right today is Republican strategist Joe Watkins.
First, though, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
The media are reporting today that preliminary election results from Iraq show that a big and insurmountable lead has gone to Shiite parties dominated by religious groups with strong links to Iran, in fact, 72 percent. Hold on. I'm flummoxed, confused, dazed. We spent a half-a-trillion dollars, over 10,000 wounded, 1,400 killed, got ourselves in a quagmire we don't know how to get the hell out of, antagonized world opinion, divided the country, all to create a government that is aligned with a totalitarian and fundamentalist regime that is producing nuclear weapons.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Man, if this is winning, I don't want to know what defeat looks like.
JOE WATKINS, GUEST CO-HOST: Well, we do know how to get out. We are already going to be bringing home 15,000 troops, which is good news.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: And the elections last Sunday were a huge victory not only for America, but, more importantly, for Iraq and for freedom.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: For Iran. Huge for Iran.
Wait. No. How -- let me ask you this. If we -- for Iran -- the secretary of state is saying Iran has nuclear weapons, when we have now funded and created an Iran-friendly government.
(BELL RINGING)
WATKINS: Absolutely not. The Sunnis are going to be involved in forming this brand new government. Wait and see.
CARVILLE: Forming doing what?
WATKINS: Absolutely.
CARVILLE: Like, the Democrats are for -- involved in forming this government? What the hell -- they got nothing to do.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: We done trade a half-a-trillion dollars for a pro-Iran government.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: A little history was quietly made today. Alberto Gonzales, President Bush's former White House counsel, began his new job. The new attorney general was welcomed by about 200 Justice Department employees, who gathered this morning outside his new office.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALBERTO GONZALES, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Obviously, the president has said that the No. 1 priority for the department is to protect this country against future acts of terrorism. And we will continue to make that our top priority. But we'll do so in a way that is always consistent with our values and consistent with our legal obligations.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATKINS: Gonzales is the first Hispanic ever to serve as attorney general. I know he is going to do a great job. I'm happy the Senate saw fit to pass him.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Great news. Great news. Great guy.
CARVILLE: Well, did they torture anybody today? Did they stick any like matches -- you know, burnt matches under somebody's fingernails or something? I don't know. He seemed like -- he seemed confused when he was talking there, just like he was confused when he was in the White House.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: He has a great career. He has a great career. He served as a justice in the Texas Supreme Court.
CARVILLE: Right. Right.
WATKINS: He has got a great career.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: And he set up that torture is now an American value.
Yesterday, my colleague Paul Begala quoted a "Washington Post" the fact that anybody who made contributions to private accounts would be forced to give the government that amount back, plus 3 percent. A lot of idiotic right-wingers sent us e-mails saying that can't be true.
So, in an effort to be accurate, I contacted Jonathan Weisman, "The Post" reporter who wrote the story. He said, you actually don't have to write a check to the government. They just dock your Social Security account that much. "The Washington Post" set the record straight today. And we wanted to as well.
It's still the same. Whether they -- whatever you put in, they taketh away, plus 3 percent.
WATKINS: Well, you know, at the end of the day, I think Congressman Harold Ford had it right.
CARVILLE: Right.
WATKINS: Which is to say that, if the Democrats are going to oppose this, they have to do more than just say no. They have got to give us something.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: The president says, let's come up with a plan that helps America and that saves Americans and future generations.
CARVILLE: If we get a plan that stinks, it don't save anything for future generations. It's a stinky plan.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: The question, should the Democrats do something is one thing. The fact that the Democrats ought to do something don't make this plan anything but what it is.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: Well, I think the plan works. A majority of Americans want to have private investment accounts. They want to have a chance to control their own investment futures.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: Why do 35 percent approve of this turkey?
Look, you know what? I was taught in Louisiana don't speak ill of the dead. So I don't know if I ought to be talking about this Social Security...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: It is going to work. It is going to work.
Can you say Democratic national chairman Dean? You better get used to it. New Democratic Network founder Simon Rosenberg today withdrew his name from contention for the DNC's top post. What's more, he endorsed, you guessed it, former presidential candidate and former Vermont Governor Howard Dean.
This means that Dean is pretty much a shoo-in for the job when party brass meet to choose the Dems' next leader. Sure, Dean is a prominent image. Sure, he's got good organizational skills, but Dean is a liberal loose cannon. The party had better keep a close watch on him, unless that -- the front -- that's the front man they're looking for.
I for one am delighted, as I'm sure many Republicans are.
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: With Dean running the show, the Democratic Party is bound to stay right where it is, out of power.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: You know, if I was a Republican, I'd be delighted by this whole process, too. This was idiotic that the party leaders couldn't get together back in November, who knew this was coming up, and say, hey, this is the person we're for. It's just a party chair. It's supposed to be a rigged thing. And the fact that this thing drug out like...
(BELL RINGING)
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I'm serious. Democrats...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Good for you, James Carville. Good for you.
CARVILLE: Democrats around the country should be, should be angry with their party that we had to drag this thing out like that. And the party elders back then should have come up and told people like me and Democrats around the country, this is our person. We would have gladly coalesced behind whoever that person was, as opposed to this horrible process that we have just been through.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: President Bush and Secretary -- and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on the road promoting the administration's policies. Just how convincing will their (UNINTELLIGIBLE) (ph) be? We'll debate that just ahead.
And later, it's Super Bowl weekend. We're going to talk to a couple of congressmen willing to put their dignity on the line to support their hometown teams.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Whether it's President Bush crisscrossing the United States or Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice crossing the Atlantic, the administration is pressing its policies well outside the Beltway. How successful will they be? joining us today in the CROSSFIRE, Ann Lewis, communications director for HILLPAC, a political action committee chaired by Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, and Republican strategist Frank Donatelli.
Welcome, both of you, to CROSSFIRE.
FRANK DONATELLI, FORMER REAGAN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Thanks for joining us.
DONATELLI: Thank you.
CARVILLE: Frank, Secretary of State Rice is overseas taking a hard line against Iran. And it's very likely that we might have to go to war with Iran.
How will American people react after spending a half-trillion dollars and losing almost 1,500 people and 10,000 wounded when the Iraqi government sides with Iran in a war against the United States, which is going to happen?
DONATELLI: I disagree with that entirely.
CARVILLE: Well, what...
DONATELLI: I heard you in the earlier segment...
CARVILLE: Right.
DONATELLI: ... say that they were about to elect a government in Iraq that is sympathetic to Iran.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I didn't say that. I didn't say that. It's all over the press. I was reporting...
DONATELLI: It was a misleading headline in "The New York Times."
CARVILLE: How?
DONATELLI: It was misleading, because the Iraqi Shiites aren't the same as the Iranian Shiites. They've been persecuted.
CARVILLE: They didn't say they were. They said they were sympathetic.
DONATELLI: They've been persecuted by Saddam Hussein. We're going to have more Sunni participation. There are a lot...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Iran went to war with Saddam -- Frank, Frank, Iran went to war with Saddam Hussein. Don't throw that canard in. We have elected a pro- -- we are supporting a pro-Iranian government.
DONATELLI: That's false. That's false.
CARVILLE: Well, of course not. Sistani hasn't even spoken to us.
DONATELLI: We haven't even had the constitution written yet. There are many, many safeguards in the constitution-writing process to guarantee human rights. I have to say, you are a nattering nabob of negativism.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: A nattering nabob...
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Thank you for Spiro Agnew. I'm saying to you, how is it going to play out there when Iraq and Iran are together against the United States?
WATKINS: Ann Lewis, here's a question for you. The sad thing to me is that it seems that the Democrats just want to try to pour water on anything good that the Republicans do. Now, tell me, are Democrats just looking for anything they can to claim that the elections in Iraq were not successful?
ANN LEWIS, NATIONAL CHAIR, WOMEN'S VOTE CENTER: No.
Let me tell you, Democrats do believe in elections. We want to cheer, as many Americans did, for the right reasons. It's great to see people voting for the first time. I'm thrilled to see women running as candidates in Iraq, as they did in Afghanistan. That's moving a step forward. We just also want to be realistic and get back to what's in the national interest of our country.
And let us point out that, when, last week, some Democrats said, now that the election is over, perhaps it's time to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq, what we heard from the other side, from the administration, was, oh, you can't say that. This week, we hear from the administration...
WATKINS: Do you agree with Ted Kennedy or do you agree with Bill Clinton?
LEWIS: No, what I'm saying...
WATKINS: Ted Kennedy is saying we need to pull out right away.
LEWIS: No. Let me repeat, it is Donald Rumsfeld, as I understand it, who now says, well, now, we're going to pull out 15,000 troops. I'd like to see a single standard.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Well, these are 15,000 people who were kept over the time they were supposed to be there.
LEWIS: That's right.
And I do agree with President Clinton. We have got to have a safe, secure situation.
WATKINS: Absolutely.
LEWIS: We have got to look at what is in the best interests of the United States.
WATKINS: That's correct.
LEWIS: We cannot walk away and leave a failed state that is another haven for terrorists.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: So, let me get this straight, because I'm very -- what's very interesting is, if you -- it is impossible to support -- support an election and dislike the outcome? That's what you're saying.
DONATELLI: No, I'm...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Because I say don't like the outcome of having a pro- Iranian religious parties getting 72 percent of the vote, then I don't support democracy.
DONATELLI: No, that's not what I'm saying. You're...
CARVILLE: Well, what are you saying?
(APPLAUSE)
DONATELLI: I'm saying you're...
CARVILLE: You like the outcome? You're glad we have a pro- Iranian, religious...
DONATELLI: I'm saying -- I'm saying you're prejudging the outcome. We don't know what the outcome is going to be yet.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I know Bush got elected. I know what the hell -- I know who he is.
(APPLAUSE)
DONATELLI: James, we have 10 percent of the vote in right now. We don't know. These are people that are going to write a constitution. There are many safeguards in there.
CARVILLE: How there's safeguards? They...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... constitution yet.
DONATELLI: And, remember, to pick the president takes two- thirds. The Kurds are going to have a say. The Sunnis are now saying they're going to participate. Why are you being so negative?
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: We have to -- I agree with Ann. We have to be successful.
CARVILLE: So you're saying the Shias may not win. You're saying the Shias may not win. They may not be religious...
DONATELLI: No, I'm not saying that it is not a pro-Iranian government. It will be a Shiite majority. But why do you automatically assume that that's pro-Iranian?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I'm saying what -- I'm saying what -- I'm saying -- I'm saying what the press said, with close ties to Iran.
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: It's "The New York Times." Don't confuse "The New York Times" with the press.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Everybody knows these guys -- everybody knows that these guys -- everybody knows that they're going to be linked. And there was very little Sunni participation, by the way, of which of course...
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: And the Sunnis have now said that they are going to participate in drafting a constitution.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Right. We'll see.
WATKINS: Ann Lewis, we all know that President Bush right now is on a road trip. And he's talking about Social Security. Now, I think that Democrats -- and I want to get your opinion on this. Don't Democrats have to do what Congressman Harold Ford from Tennessee is saying? Congressman Ford is -- he is one of the bright lights in the Congress -- is saying that Democrats have to do more than just say no. They've got to propose a plan of their own or at least share with Americans what they see in terms of solving the Social Security problem.
LEWIS: I share your admiration for Congressman Ford. And we should be clear that he rejects President Bush's plan to privatize Social Security and take money out of the trust fund.
Now, what do Democrats say?
WATKINS: Yes.
LEWIS: They say, let's look at our principles.
You know what the first principle is? It's like the Hippocratic oath that doctors take. First, do no harm. Now we can begin from there.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Of course do no harm. But we know that the system is going to fail down the line.
LEWIS: What did Bill Clinton -- what did Bill -- what did Bill Clinton do? What did Bill Clinton do? He grew the economy. He turned what had been a deficit into a surplus. And he said, now we can use this to strengthen Social Security.
WATKINS: That's what George Bush is doing, growing the economy.
LEWIS: No, here's what George Bush did.
CARVILLE: Oh, really?
WATKINS: Absolutely.
CARVILLE: It's growing?
WATKINS: It's growing.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: He turned a surplus into the biggest deficit we have ever had.
(APPLAUSE)
LEWIS: And he says, now that we have got this big deficit, let's take a trillion dollars out of Social Security, taking us in the wrong direction. You know the first step? Do no harm. Get back to...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... of fiscal responsibility.
WATKINS: So you're saying that it's the wrong direction to try to fix Social Security, to deal with this issue now, to put it off and let other generations worry about it?
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: No. The right direction is to get back on the path of fiscal responsibility, so we have a stronger economy, so we get away from these trillion-dollar deficits. Don't make it worse.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Let me ask you a question about the U.S. here. There was a report in the paper today that the -- that when President Bush went to North Dakota, that people, that the chief executive of Democracy Radio was not allowed, because he produced a show, that other people, Linda -- City Commissioner Linda Coates, whose husband is on that list.
Do you know if these people were a threat, a physical threat to the president? Did the Secret Service keep them off of this list? Or were they kept off for political views?
DONATELLI: That would be shocking, if that were the case, right?
I assume it was an audience where it took a ticket to be invited. And there were people that were already in the show.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: But, again, why...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: That was done by volunteers. Volunteers did this.
CARVILLE: But, again, you're telling me the White House doesn't -- it was like, we didn't put up "Mission Accomplished," when they said of course they did?
(CROSSTALK)
DONATELLI: You know, James...
CARVILLE: Is there any reason in the world that you would believe anything this White House said? Give me one thing that they have ever told the truth on.
WATKINS: The Iraqi elections would work.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: The Iraqi elections would work. And they did.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: ... pro-Iranian government.
DONATELLI: And that Social Security is going bankrupt unless we do something.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Name one sane person that believes that Social Security is...
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: And a taxpayer-funded event -- taxpayer-funded events are no longer open to every American taxpayer. These are not political campaign rallies. These are events that are being paid for by the American taxpayer.
WATKINS: Absolutely.
LEWIS: And yet you're going to have a political loyalty list before you can get in the door. That is wrong.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: The White House didn't do that. The White House didn't do that. We all know that was done by volunteers.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... perhaps. Nobody knows who did this, right? You put on a White House event. Joe, I have worked for presidents.
WATKINS: Me, too. I worked in the White House, too.
LEWIS: You worked on a White House event. And some...
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: You have volunteers that work for the White House, the White House staffs.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: ... anonymous person gives you a list and you don't know where it comes from? Please.
CARVILLE: Do you think -- do you think that anybody, anybody -- I don't care how stupid -- a person with an I.Q. of 10 -- believes that the president of the United States goes to North Dakota and the White House doesn't control the event, that it's just sort of nice lady sitting around a tea that sort of designs this?
(APPLAUSE)
LEWIS: Right.
CARVILLE: And the White House -- I mean, come on.
Both of you, look in the camera and say, no, the White House really doesn't control an event in North Dakota. It's just a sort of Republican ladies club that does.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: I mean, come on.
WATKINS: I thought it was.
CARVILLE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
LEWIS: That's our point.
CARVILLE: Give us your kind of spin that -- you know what I mean? But don't tell us that. That's just ludicrous.
Only the U.S. -- the national press corps would believe something that stupid.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Go ahead.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: The idea is like...
WATKINS: Well, Ann Lewis, shouldn't Democrats of these states that voted to reject President Bush take a warning from what happened to Tom Daschle?
LEWIS: You know, they're going to look what happened in this last election. And what was the message? The message was, when it comes to election time, Republicans are going to try to defeat Democrats. You take a congressman like Charlie Stenholm. Try to beat him.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: We're so glad you're here. We're running out of time. I want to thank our two guests.
CARVILLE: Eagles, Pats.
DONATELLI: Twenty-seven/seventeen, New England.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: I want other thank our friends Ann Lewis and Frank Donatelli. LEWIS: I'm from New England, but I'll do a tossup.
WATKINS: And next, two congressmen supporting hometown teams in the Super Bowl. Find out what they're willing to bet.
And right after the break, Wolf Blitzer shows us a little of the super security being put in place for the Super Bowl.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, terror concerns at JFK Airport. Authorities take action following a hijack threat.
And security is tight in Jacksonville, Florida, as fans gather for Sunday's Super Bowl.
His politically and racially charged bouts with Joe Louis are among the most famous fights in history. Max Schmeling is now dead at the age of 99.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: Now time to shift our attention to a very, very important matter. The Super Bowl is coming up this Sunday. This year, the Philadelphia Eagles and the New England Patriots will battle it out for the whole bowl of wax. Boy, what a cliche.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: We're joined by a couple of congressmen who have agreed to a little more than a gentleman's wager on Sunday's matchup. And there are no party lines to cross here. They're both Democrats.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Welcome, Congressmen.
CARVILLE: Massachusetts Represent Marty Meehan is in Boston. And Representative Robert Brady of Pennsylvania is in Philadelphia.
WATKINS: Welcome, Congressmen, to the CROSSFIRE.
Listen, gentlemen, what's the bet? What is this bet that you guys made?
REP. ROBERT BRADY (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Well, we got a bet that -- I got the Eagles helmet right here. We have a bet that, when the Eagles win, not if, when the Eagles win, that my dear friend Marty has to wear the Eagles helmet all around Washington for all of next week.
And, Marty, you noticed I took the face mask off, because I had the one with the face mask on. But we want to see your pretty face when you have it on top of your head. I don't want to have the face mask covering it.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: Couldn't you guys just do like lobster and cheese steaks? I mean, why the helmets?
R. BRADY: Well, there's too much food being bet around. I got a lot of -- we also have a bet with the Massachusetts delegation, that I have got to feed them a Philadelphia cheese steak lunch if -- well, it won't happen -- if they happen to win. And they're going to give us lobsters or lobster rolls or some kind of chowder, I think. I don't know what -- they don't have much that I want to eat up there, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Well, Bobby, you know, I spent a lot of...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Go ahead, Marty. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
REP. MARTY MEEHAN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: The big challenge that I face is, I have to get a New England Patriots helmet big enough for Bob to wear. That's the big challenge I have.
(LAUGHTER)
MEEHAN: Because New England is going to win this game.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Go ahead.
R. BRADY: Well, you know what?
(CROSSTALK)
R. BRADY: I brought my wife with me. She used to be an Eagles' cheerleader. Just to say hello to you. And she is my good luck charm. She was an Eagles cheerleader for five years. And she is my good luck charm. And she is going to bring them Eagles right back again, right back home.
(CROSSTALK)
DEBRA BRADY, WIFE OF ROBERT BRADY: Hi, Marty. How are you? (CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Marty, I have got Philadelphia in the game. If Philadelphia wins, I want you to take me to dinner at Locke-Ober. Somebody has got to pay for it, though. It's too expensive...
(CROSSTALK)
MEEHAN: One thing about Bob Brady, you've got to admit, one thing about Bob Brady, he definitely married up, didn't he?
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Oh, he did marry up. Look at that.
WATKINS: He did indeed.
CARVILLE: Bob Brady and I have that in common. We're two ugly guys with gorgeous wives.
(LAUGHTER)
R. BRADY: Yes.
CARVILLE: Absolutely.
D. BRADY: Thank you.
R. BRADY: Marty, your wife is a lovely lady. Your wife is a lovely lady, too. She must have had a bad moment or two to marry you.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: All right.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Bob Brady -- you and I are on the same team, Bob Brady. You're a Democrat. I'm a Republican. But this time, we're both rooting for the Eagles, man. So I'm with you, man, all the way.
R. BRADY: Well, I got you out of sin temporarily. That's all.
(LAUGHTER)
R. BRADY: You got to be for the Eagles.
CARVILLE: All right. Marty, tell us, what do you think the final score is going to be?
MEEHAN: I think it's going to be 34-24 New England. Sorry about that, because I know you like to bet.
Look, New England is the best team in the league. The AFC is a much better conference than the NFC.
WATKINS: Thanks so much, guys.
MEEHAN: And, frankly...
CARVILLE: Thank you all.
MEEHAN: We're going to win this.
WATKINS: Thanks so much for joining us.
CARVILLE: Take the Eagles and the points. Take the under.
WATKINS: Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has said she wants to be commissioner of the NFL one day. We'll tell you who she is predicting will win the Super Bowl Sunday and share our own picks as well just ahead.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CARVILLE: The truth be told, secretary of state isn't really Condoleezza Rice. It's an all-time dream job. She has said that many times what she really wants to do when she grows up is be NFL commissioner. Secretary Rice is a huge football fan. She is picking the New England Patriots to win with a field goal in the last quarter.
Actually, that would be fine for me, because I say take Philadelphia and the seven and also take the under, 47 1/2. That's Carville's recommendation. If you follow that, you will probably lose, because I generally do, too. But I hope they win it with a last-second field goal.
(LAUGHTER)
WATKINS: I like Condi Rice, but I love the Philadelphia Eagles. And I am predicting the Eagles win 28-14.
CARVILLE: All good for me. I don't care if..
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: You have heard it here on CROSSFIRE first from me, Joe Watkins.
CARVILLE: All right.
WATKINS: Eagle-loving -- Eagles-loving Joe Watkins.
CARVILLE: From the left, I'm James Carville. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
WATKINS: From the right, I'm Joe Watkins, the lover of the Philadelphia Eagles. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now. (APPLAUSE)
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