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CNN Crossfire
America Safer From Terrorism?
Aired March 08, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak.
In the CROSSFIRE: winning the war on terrorism. President Bush says spreading democracy around the world is the key to keeping terrorists on the run.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No matter how long it takes, no matter how difficult the task, we will fight the enemy and lift the shadow of fear and lead the free nations to victory.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: The president uses his speech to send a message to Iran: Back off of plans to develop nuclear weapons. And he wants Syria to know it's time for them to get out of Lebanon.
And it's back to the hospital for a former president. We'll have a live update on Bill Clinton's health.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush made a major speech to update Americans on the progress being made in the war on terrorism. One of the signs of progress, the recent elections throughout the Middle East.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: The president sounded to me a bit like Wallace Shawn playing the Masked Avenger in Woody Allen's movie "Radio Days." Remember? Beware, evildoers, wherever you are.
And with some very real evildoers in North Korea, Iran, Iraq and al Qaeda continuing to threat America, don't you think the Masked Avenger needs a few allies? We'll discuss that with former top officials from both the Bush and the Clinton White Houses in a moment. But, first, there's another story we want to talk about. Former President Bill Clinton will have surgery Thursday in New York. The operation will deal with the fluid buildup in the former president's chest and a collapsed portion of his lung. Mr. Clinton was at the White House today, along with former President Bush, to brief the current president on tsunami relief efforts. Mr. Clinton played down the seriousness of his condition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will knock me out of commission for a week or two and then I'll be back to normal. This is no big deal. And I felt well enough to go to Asia to try to keep up with President Bush and we're going to play golf tomorrow. So I'm -- I'm not in too bad of shape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is good enough to join us from New York to fill us in on my former boss' surgery.
Sanjay, how serious is this?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's probably not all that serious, Paul. It's a relatively rare occurrence after his first operation, which was almost six months ago to the day.
That time, he had bypass surgery, which is far more concerning to doctors. This time, he has had an accumulation of scar and fluid. That's a rare type of thing that occurs, but the procedure to take care of it is much more common. And, as you say, Paul, there's no one better than your former boss to sort of describe what it is exactly. Here's how President Clinton put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I found this condition when I did my regular test and they said I was in the top 5 percent of men my age in health. But they took a routine X-ray and found out that I had a lot of fluid buildup here, which is quite rare once the fluid goes down. And so all they have to do is drain it and take that little peel that holds the fluid out. It's a routine sort of deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: And he looks pretty good there.
Now, to be clear, the type of operation that he is having is called decortication. It's for fluid and inflammation that has caused a partial collapse of his lung on the left side. He is going to be asleep for this, under general anesthesia. He'll probably be at the hospital for about three to 10 days.
Again, most likely, this is the consequence of his CABG, or coronary artery bypass graft, bypass surgery that he had back in September. Remember that operation, again. That was a big one. They opened his chest for that. They actually stopped his heart, took some veins from his legs and went ahead and bypassed some diseased vessels. That operation went well. He recently had a stress test, which looked like that went very well, as well. So, he is doing fine from his heart standpoint. Just getting rid of the fluid and scar now is the name of the game, Paul.
NOVAK: Sanjay, we're hearing that President Clinton actually knew about this problem before he went to South Asia. Does that sound a little unusual to you?
GUPTA: Yes, it does sound a little bit unusual. The doctors this morning called the operation elective. That may be a little bit of an overextension, Robert.
He certainly needs this operation. It's a scheduled operation, but it's not something he could probably do without. I think probably, if I were his doctor, and his doctors may have said this to him, they probably advised him not to do so much traveling and probably tone down his schedule a bit. But knowing President Clinton, maybe that was harder to do. It looks like he cruised through the trip just fine.
But he is going to need to have this operation done. If he doesn't have it done, he probably will continue to have difficulty with his breathing, especially while exercising, and that may reduce his activity as well.
NOVAK: Dr. Gupta, thank you very much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
NOVAK: Right now, here's the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
In your face. That described the stunning -- the stunning decision by President Bush to name Undersecretary of State John Bolton as U.S. ambassador of the United Nations. In your face, corrupt U.N. officials. In your face, State Department bureaucrats. In your face, liberals everywhere. John Bolton is an experienced public servant, a fighter for freedom who is a patriot and a great American.
Secretary Bolton has been widely described as a neoconservative. Wrong. He is a plain old-fashioned conservative. An example, when the American Conservative Union held its 50th anniversary banquet last year, the striped-pants boys at the State Department had a fit. Seated on the dais was none other than Undersecretary Bolton.
BEGALA: Well, I think it's unseemly for a senior State Department official to be raising money for a political special interest group.
But in your face does describe Mr. Bolton. And it might not be a bad choice, Bob. It might surprise some of my liberal friends. Jeane Kirkpatrick was in your face, a great U.N. ambassador. Pat Moynihan was in your face. In the Clinton administration, we had Madeleine Albright and Dick Holbrooke, who were very tough and not very diplomatic always in their words. And they were great U.N. ambassadors.
So, this may be a good place for somebody who tends to shoot his mouth off.
NOVAK: Those are corrupt, nasty people at the U.N. It's about time we caught up with them.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: And John...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: John Danforth was just too nice a guy for them.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Too nice a guy for Bob Novak. That's kind of a low bar, though, isn't it, Bob?
NOVAK: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Anyway, the...
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: The minimum wage is just $5.15 an hour, where it has been stuck since 1997. Republicans yesterday shot down Senator Edward Kennedy's proposal for an increase to $7.25 an hour. The Senate also rejected an attack by Republican Rick Santorum to kick some Americans off the minimum wage, to count their tips toward their wages, which would be a huge pay cut for working people, and to eliminate overtime for many workers.
Mr. Santorum was a lawyer and lobbyist before he became a senator. I can't imagine anything more savage than an overpaid, overfed, overprivileged yuppie like Rick Santorum telling the hardworking people of Pennsylvania they don't deserve a minimum wage or overtime.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, wait a minute. Actually, I can think of something more savage. That same yuppie who opposes the minimum wage voted himself a fat pay raise as a senator. Santorum thinks working folks aren't worth $7.25 an hour. But he thinks he's worth $158,000 a year from the taxpayers.
NOVAK: I think you'll find that an even fatter yuppie, Teddy Kennedy, voted for the same pay raise for senators.
You know, you play the... (APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You play the class warfare game, Paul. But I'll tell you something. Why don't they come out there and -- and ask for a $20-an- hour minimum wage increase?
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: It's because they know it would hurt the economy. And this would hurt the economy, too.
BEGALA: Well, I hope we do a whole show on that issue.
Well, President Bush gave a triumphalist speech today at the National Defense University. Critics say Mr. Bush was taking credit for things he had nothing to do with, but avoiding blame for things he had a lot to do with. My own view is, if hot air protected us from terrorism, Washington would be the safest place on Earth.
We will debate President Bush's foreign policy and your security next in the CROSSFIRE.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: During his speech today, President Bush said the U.S. needs to keep taking the fight to terrorists, saying they can't attack if they're worried about their own safety. He issued warnings to Iran and Syria.
And today in the CROSSFIRE, Nancy Soderberg, former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., a member of the National Security Council during the Clinton administration, author of the book The Superpower Myth: The Use and Misuse of American Might," and Asa Hutchinson, former undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security, former congressman from the great state of Arkansas.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Good to see you both. Thank you for doing this.
NANCY SODERBERG, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: My pleasure.
BEGALA: The president today gave at least what I described as a rather triumphalist speech at National Defense University. And I -- I guess I don't mind when he says we're good and they're evil. Even my 4-year-old figured that out a while ago, though, that they chop people's heads off and we're for freedom. I'm glad he got a bead on that after four years. Well, he seems to have -- well, let me let Nancy speak from her book. I just started it. But I have to say, it is going to be one of the big books of the year, I think, in foreign policy, because I think she puts her finger on what so many of us are worried about in this president's foreign policy. Let me quote from Nancy's book: "The Bush administration believed that America's vast and unrivaled military and economic power gave Washington the freedom to act alone. In the process, America alienated its friends and allies just when it needed them the most in building a world coalition to combat terror."
Now, you were fighting terror at Homeland Security. Did you need allies or could we go it alone?
ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, certainly, we need allies. And President Bush recognizes that.
If the United States needs to -- has to go it alone, it will to protect this country. But, also, whenever you're looking at what we're facing in Iran, he's built a coalition, with France and Great Britain joining and taking the lead and telling Iran that they need to come in to compliance with the U.N. resolutions. Whenever you look at North Korea, he's concentrated upon the six-party talks.
So, his movement for freedom and his push for freedom and his speech today recognize there are different solutions in different places. Sometimes, the United States has to be more out front. Other times, it has to be more of a coalition doing the job of pushing freedom.
BEGALA: Well, even the phony-baloney coalition he had for Iraq has fallen apart. Just in the last few months,Poland said they're leaving, Netherlands leaving, Ukraine leaving. Now, Hungary will leave by the end of this month. That's not moving us in the right direction, is it, to keep losing allies? What is he doing wrong that is causing all his allies to leave his side on the war on freedom -- war for freedom?
HUTCHINSON: Oh, I think -- I think you look at what's happening in the Middle East and I think we are moving in the right direction. Whenever you see the winds of freedom blowing, even in Lebanon, which no one gave that a chance of happening, and the message today to the students and the people of Lebanon that the American people are with you, the message to Syria to withdraw before the Lebanese election comes up, these are great, not triumphs, but momentum builders to change.
And Iraq has been a big part of that. Without our presence in Iraq, without our stability and our strength there, I think a case could be made that these things would not have been happening elsewhere.
Ms. Soderberg, let's take a listen to something that the president said in his speech today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: Our duty is now clear. For the sake of our long-term security, all free nations must stand with the forces of democracy and justice that have begun to transform the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Contrary to what Paul said, if I can understand English, he is calling for other nations to join us. If the French don't want to join us, if they'd rather make money off of certain contacts they have, there's nothing we can do about it. But I thought I heard the president saying he's calling for people to join us.
SODERBERG: That's right. They'll never admit this, but I think the administration is undergoing a second-term conversion away from what I call the superpower myth, where they thought we could do it alone because we're the superpower, and recognizing that we need to build allies and become a persuading, not an enforcer.
And I think the issue in Iraq is, you know, we own Iraq and we're going to basically be there for a while. And it will work. The Iraqi people will be better off. But I think it's important to recognize that the changes that are going on right now have very little to do with that and have a lot to do with the death of Arafat, the fact that the Syrians overstepped their bound in killing that.
And the United States has a historic opportunity to drive that change and lead a coalition. The trick with Iran, by the way, is, we have the right policy. We just can't convince anyone to go along with us. And that's President Bush's job.
NOVAK: But I hate to rain on your parade.
SODERBERG: You love raining on my parade.
NOVAK: And spoil...
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: And spoil your new book, but is it possible, Ms. Soderberg, that your book is out of date just as it's published?
SODERBERG: Well, I would like to...
NOVAK: That he has rejected -- I think you said yourself he has given up what you call the superpower myth.
SODERBERG: Yes. What this book does -- I would like to think he read it and believed and just said, oh, we'll change course. But I suspect...
BEGALA: He's a big reader.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Big reader.
SODERBERG: I suspect it has more to do with reality.
What this book recommends is a new policy, can be either Democratic or Republican, of tough engagement, where the U.S. lead coalitions, becomes persuaders, not enforcers, and has zero tolerance for terrorists and proliferators. And that's a prescription for winning. And I hope the Bush administration takes it up and runs with it, because, if they do, you can have historic change, not only in the Middle East and Israel.
But, also, I strongly support the call for freedom around the world. But you just can't call for it. You have to lead it.
BEGALA: And, in fact, one of the arguments that Nancy makes in the book that I think is very relevant to today is the question of whether invading Iraq has helped or hurt us in the war on terror.
It's plainly going to benefit the Iraqis. I don't care, frankly. I care about America first. Here's what -- the argument Nancy makes in her book: "Rather than continue the pursuit of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda in the mountains of Tora Bora, continue to ensure the stability of Afghanistan and strengthen the worldwide coalition against terrorism, President Bush chose to invade Iraq."
Now, in the cool light of day, isn't it true that it has been a real distraction from the real war on terror?
HUTCHINSON: That was the argument that John Kerry made in the last election and the American people didn't buy into that.
They recognize how important it is for our own security to be on the offensive war, not just in Afghanistan, but also in Iraq. And as someone who worked to protect our borders and transportation systems, the intelligence that we get taking the offensive in war, even in Iraq, has been a tremendous benefit for the security of our own nation. And the president made that point today again in his speech, reminding the American people it is going to be a long war. We have to be patient with this, but the offensive part of it is essential, to our own security here in the United States.
NOVAK: OK. We got to take a little break.
And when we come back, we'll ask why in the world was a senior Democratic senator praising the president after his speech today.
And what is the U.S. general in charge of coalition troops in Iraq saying about the shooting of an Italian journalist? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, another big demonstration in Lebanon, but this time, it's pro-Syrian. We'll talk to Syrian's ambassador to the U.S.
The top U.S. general in Iraq talks about the shooting of a freed Italian hostage and the death of an Italian security specialist. General George Casey says America will work with Italy to learn the truth.
An investigating a 3,000-year-old mystery. Was King Tut murdered?
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf. Look forward to your report at the top of the hour.
Now, here at CROSSFIRE, we're talking about foreign policy. President Bush called Iraq the front line in the war against terrorists today. But critics of his invasion say that Iraq has allowed -- rather, the situation in Iraq has allowed terrorists to grow stronger as American might is bogged down in a long and painful occupation.
Continuing our debate, former Homeland Security Undersecretary Asa Hutchinson and Nancy Soderberg, former ambassador and adviser to President Clinton on national security, author of the new book "The Superpower Myth: The Use and Misuse of American Might."
NOVAK: Ms. Soderberg, let's listen to a critique of the president's speech today by a senior Democratic member of the Senate, Dianne Feinstein of California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: I thought he set forward the foreign policy agenda of his administration for the next four years and, in doing so, gives very clear marching orders to his secretary of state. Clearly, the Middle East has moved to the top of his agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: What do you think of that analysis?
SODERBERG: I agree with it. And I wish they had given that speech four years ago. They have sat on the sidelines of the Middle East peace process for the last four years.
They now have an opportunity, with the death of Arafat, to make significant change. They need to focus on the need for reform in the Arab world. And they need to put America as an engager in the world. And I think they're going to try and do it. And it could be a historic second term. That doesn't support, necessarily, what's happened in the last four years. But you can change things and move in the right direction. And I think they have a chance to do that. BEGALA: There's an old saying, of course, in the South, where we're from. Talk is cheap. The president talked a lot today. But I have looked at the budget. The president's budget sets out $41 billion for Homeland Security, your old agency, to defend the homeland and $1 trillion for tax cuts. Are you people crazy? Why don't you defend the homeland first and give us tax cuts if there's something left over?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I'm sorry to be rude, but...
HUTCHINSON: Well, I think, first of all, you can do more than one thing at a time. And the president recognizes that economic security is important, as national security is. And whenever you're looking at putting more money in the hands of the American taxpayer, whenever you're looking at preserving Social Security, these things are important to concentrate on.
And I think he's doing a masterful job on that. He's leading our country. Whenever you're looking at our homeland security funding, it's been -- I think it's a 6 percent increase, a very substantial increase in a tough budget time. And people could argue, well, you ought to spend more. I think he's balancing the objectives of trying to bring the deficit under control, keeping the economy moving and taking reasonable steps to protect our homeland. You could spend us into oblivion if you are not careful and don't have the right strategy. We have tried to have that balance.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Just -- just -- we're almost out of time, but, Ms. Soderberg, Paul says that was a triumphalist speech. I didn't think it was. Did you?
SODERBERG: I thought it was an upbeat speech, largely rhetoric. That's the role of a president. As he said, I think it depends on whether they can turn that rhetoric into real action.
NOVAK: Nancy Soderberg, thank you very much.
SODERBERG: My pleasure.
BEGALA: Asa Hutchinson, thank you as well.
NOVAK: Asa Hutchinson, thank you.
What is it about Hollywood and politics? Next, we'll tell you about an actor who says, forget his royal past. He could be president of the United States if he really wanted to.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE) NOVAK: Another Hollywood sparkly thinks he can move into politics.
Will Smith, rapper-turned-actor, is overseas promoting his new movie, "Hitch." According to "The Washington Post"'s style section, Smith is telling Australian media -- quote -- "I really, truly believe I could be the president of the United States if I wanted to."
While he does admit that somebody could point out all the reasons it would never happen, he also says he has a weird naivete that makes him think it could happen. To tell the truth, I think Paul Begala has a better chance of becoming president.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: No, I'll tell you what. First off, we were all raised to believe anybody could grow up to be president. We look at George Bush, we know it's true, by God.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But why not?
Unlike -- unlike President Bush, Will Smith has a successful business career before getting into politics. He actually speaks English.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Even when he raps. And why not an inaugural address that begins, yo, yo, my peeps? Wouldn't that be a great...
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Are you signing up for the Will Smith for president campaign?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: I am.
NOVAK: That's about -- I think a guy who was with Clinton from the beginning, that is a good, logical succession.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
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Aired March 8, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; on the right, Robert Novak.
In the CROSSFIRE: winning the war on terrorism. President Bush says spreading democracy around the world is the key to keeping terrorists on the run.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No matter how long it takes, no matter how difficult the task, we will fight the enemy and lift the shadow of fear and lead the free nations to victory.
(APPLAUSE)
ANNOUNCER: The president uses his speech to send a message to Iran: Back off of plans to develop nuclear weapons. And he wants Syria to know it's time for them to get out of Lebanon.
And it's back to the hospital for a former president. We'll have a live update on Bill Clinton's health.
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Robert Novak.
(APPLAUSE)
ROBERT NOVAK, CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
President Bush made a major speech to update Americans on the progress being made in the war on terrorism. One of the signs of progress, the recent elections throughout the Middle East.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: The president sounded to me a bit like Wallace Shawn playing the Masked Avenger in Woody Allen's movie "Radio Days." Remember? Beware, evildoers, wherever you are.
And with some very real evildoers in North Korea, Iran, Iraq and al Qaeda continuing to threat America, don't you think the Masked Avenger needs a few allies? We'll discuss that with former top officials from both the Bush and the Clinton White Houses in a moment. But, first, there's another story we want to talk about. Former President Bill Clinton will have surgery Thursday in New York. The operation will deal with the fluid buildup in the former president's chest and a collapsed portion of his lung. Mr. Clinton was at the White House today, along with former President Bush, to brief the current president on tsunami relief efforts. Mr. Clinton played down the seriousness of his condition.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It will knock me out of commission for a week or two and then I'll be back to normal. This is no big deal. And I felt well enough to go to Asia to try to keep up with President Bush and we're going to play golf tomorrow. So I'm -- I'm not in too bad of shape.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEGALA: CNN senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta is good enough to join us from New York to fill us in on my former boss' surgery.
Sanjay, how serious is this?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's probably not all that serious, Paul. It's a relatively rare occurrence after his first operation, which was almost six months ago to the day.
That time, he had bypass surgery, which is far more concerning to doctors. This time, he has had an accumulation of scar and fluid. That's a rare type of thing that occurs, but the procedure to take care of it is much more common. And, as you say, Paul, there's no one better than your former boss to sort of describe what it is exactly. Here's how President Clinton put it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I found this condition when I did my regular test and they said I was in the top 5 percent of men my age in health. But they took a routine X-ray and found out that I had a lot of fluid buildup here, which is quite rare once the fluid goes down. And so all they have to do is drain it and take that little peel that holds the fluid out. It's a routine sort of deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUPTA: And he looks pretty good there.
Now, to be clear, the type of operation that he is having is called decortication. It's for fluid and inflammation that has caused a partial collapse of his lung on the left side. He is going to be asleep for this, under general anesthesia. He'll probably be at the hospital for about three to 10 days.
Again, most likely, this is the consequence of his CABG, or coronary artery bypass graft, bypass surgery that he had back in September. Remember that operation, again. That was a big one. They opened his chest for that. They actually stopped his heart, took some veins from his legs and went ahead and bypassed some diseased vessels. That operation went well. He recently had a stress test, which looked like that went very well, as well. So, he is doing fine from his heart standpoint. Just getting rid of the fluid and scar now is the name of the game, Paul.
NOVAK: Sanjay, we're hearing that President Clinton actually knew about this problem before he went to South Asia. Does that sound a little unusual to you?
GUPTA: Yes, it does sound a little bit unusual. The doctors this morning called the operation elective. That may be a little bit of an overextension, Robert.
He certainly needs this operation. It's a scheduled operation, but it's not something he could probably do without. I think probably, if I were his doctor, and his doctors may have said this to him, they probably advised him not to do so much traveling and probably tone down his schedule a bit. But knowing President Clinton, maybe that was harder to do. It looks like he cruised through the trip just fine.
But he is going to need to have this operation done. If he doesn't have it done, he probably will continue to have difficulty with his breathing, especially while exercising, and that may reduce his activity as well.
NOVAK: Dr. Gupta, thank you very much.
GUPTA: Thank you.
NOVAK: Right now, here's the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
In your face. That described the stunning -- the stunning decision by President Bush to name Undersecretary of State John Bolton as U.S. ambassador of the United Nations. In your face, corrupt U.N. officials. In your face, State Department bureaucrats. In your face, liberals everywhere. John Bolton is an experienced public servant, a fighter for freedom who is a patriot and a great American.
Secretary Bolton has been widely described as a neoconservative. Wrong. He is a plain old-fashioned conservative. An example, when the American Conservative Union held its 50th anniversary banquet last year, the striped-pants boys at the State Department had a fit. Seated on the dais was none other than Undersecretary Bolton.
BEGALA: Well, I think it's unseemly for a senior State Department official to be raising money for a political special interest group.
But in your face does describe Mr. Bolton. And it might not be a bad choice, Bob. It might surprise some of my liberal friends. Jeane Kirkpatrick was in your face, a great U.N. ambassador. Pat Moynihan was in your face. In the Clinton administration, we had Madeleine Albright and Dick Holbrooke, who were very tough and not very diplomatic always in their words. And they were great U.N. ambassadors.
So, this may be a good place for somebody who tends to shoot his mouth off.
NOVAK: Those are corrupt, nasty people at the U.N. It's about time we caught up with them.
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: And John...
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: John Danforth was just too nice a guy for them.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Too nice a guy for Bob Novak. That's kind of a low bar, though, isn't it, Bob?
NOVAK: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Anyway, the...
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: The minimum wage is just $5.15 an hour, where it has been stuck since 1997. Republicans yesterday shot down Senator Edward Kennedy's proposal for an increase to $7.25 an hour. The Senate also rejected an attack by Republican Rick Santorum to kick some Americans off the minimum wage, to count their tips toward their wages, which would be a huge pay cut for working people, and to eliminate overtime for many workers.
Mr. Santorum was a lawyer and lobbyist before he became a senator. I can't imagine anything more savage than an overpaid, overfed, overprivileged yuppie like Rick Santorum telling the hardworking people of Pennsylvania they don't deserve a minimum wage or overtime.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, wait a minute. Actually, I can think of something more savage. That same yuppie who opposes the minimum wage voted himself a fat pay raise as a senator. Santorum thinks working folks aren't worth $7.25 an hour. But he thinks he's worth $158,000 a year from the taxpayers.
NOVAK: I think you'll find that an even fatter yuppie, Teddy Kennedy, voted for the same pay raise for senators.
You know, you play the... (APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: You play the class warfare game, Paul. But I'll tell you something. Why don't they come out there and -- and ask for a $20-an- hour minimum wage increase?
(BELL RINGING)
NOVAK: It's because they know it would hurt the economy. And this would hurt the economy, too.
BEGALA: Well, I hope we do a whole show on that issue.
Well, President Bush gave a triumphalist speech today at the National Defense University. Critics say Mr. Bush was taking credit for things he had nothing to do with, but avoiding blame for things he had a lot to do with. My own view is, if hot air protected us from terrorism, Washington would be the safest place on Earth.
We will debate President Bush's foreign policy and your security next in the CROSSFIRE.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: During his speech today, President Bush said the U.S. needs to keep taking the fight to terrorists, saying they can't attack if they're worried about their own safety. He issued warnings to Iran and Syria.
And today in the CROSSFIRE, Nancy Soderberg, former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., a member of the National Security Council during the Clinton administration, author of the book The Superpower Myth: The Use and Misuse of American Might," and Asa Hutchinson, former undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security, former congressman from the great state of Arkansas.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Good to see you both. Thank you for doing this.
NANCY SODERBERG, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UNITED NATIONS: My pleasure.
BEGALA: The president today gave at least what I described as a rather triumphalist speech at National Defense University. And I -- I guess I don't mind when he says we're good and they're evil. Even my 4-year-old figured that out a while ago, though, that they chop people's heads off and we're for freedom. I'm glad he got a bead on that after four years. Well, he seems to have -- well, let me let Nancy speak from her book. I just started it. But I have to say, it is going to be one of the big books of the year, I think, in foreign policy, because I think she puts her finger on what so many of us are worried about in this president's foreign policy. Let me quote from Nancy's book: "The Bush administration believed that America's vast and unrivaled military and economic power gave Washington the freedom to act alone. In the process, America alienated its friends and allies just when it needed them the most in building a world coalition to combat terror."
Now, you were fighting terror at Homeland Security. Did you need allies or could we go it alone?
ASA HUTCHINSON, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY FOR HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, certainly, we need allies. And President Bush recognizes that.
If the United States needs to -- has to go it alone, it will to protect this country. But, also, whenever you're looking at what we're facing in Iran, he's built a coalition, with France and Great Britain joining and taking the lead and telling Iran that they need to come in to compliance with the U.N. resolutions. Whenever you look at North Korea, he's concentrated upon the six-party talks.
So, his movement for freedom and his push for freedom and his speech today recognize there are different solutions in different places. Sometimes, the United States has to be more out front. Other times, it has to be more of a coalition doing the job of pushing freedom.
BEGALA: Well, even the phony-baloney coalition he had for Iraq has fallen apart. Just in the last few months,Poland said they're leaving, Netherlands leaving, Ukraine leaving. Now, Hungary will leave by the end of this month. That's not moving us in the right direction, is it, to keep losing allies? What is he doing wrong that is causing all his allies to leave his side on the war on freedom -- war for freedom?
HUTCHINSON: Oh, I think -- I think you look at what's happening in the Middle East and I think we are moving in the right direction. Whenever you see the winds of freedom blowing, even in Lebanon, which no one gave that a chance of happening, and the message today to the students and the people of Lebanon that the American people are with you, the message to Syria to withdraw before the Lebanese election comes up, these are great, not triumphs, but momentum builders to change.
And Iraq has been a big part of that. Without our presence in Iraq, without our stability and our strength there, I think a case could be made that these things would not have been happening elsewhere.
Ms. Soderberg, let's take a listen to something that the president said in his speech today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BUSH: Our duty is now clear. For the sake of our long-term security, all free nations must stand with the forces of democracy and justice that have begun to transform the Middle East.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: Contrary to what Paul said, if I can understand English, he is calling for other nations to join us. If the French don't want to join us, if they'd rather make money off of certain contacts they have, there's nothing we can do about it. But I thought I heard the president saying he's calling for people to join us.
SODERBERG: That's right. They'll never admit this, but I think the administration is undergoing a second-term conversion away from what I call the superpower myth, where they thought we could do it alone because we're the superpower, and recognizing that we need to build allies and become a persuading, not an enforcer.
And I think the issue in Iraq is, you know, we own Iraq and we're going to basically be there for a while. And it will work. The Iraqi people will be better off. But I think it's important to recognize that the changes that are going on right now have very little to do with that and have a lot to do with the death of Arafat, the fact that the Syrians overstepped their bound in killing that.
And the United States has a historic opportunity to drive that change and lead a coalition. The trick with Iran, by the way, is, we have the right policy. We just can't convince anyone to go along with us. And that's President Bush's job.
NOVAK: But I hate to rain on your parade.
SODERBERG: You love raining on my parade.
NOVAK: And spoil...
(LAUGHTER)
NOVAK: And spoil your new book, but is it possible, Ms. Soderberg, that your book is out of date just as it's published?
SODERBERG: Well, I would like to...
NOVAK: That he has rejected -- I think you said yourself he has given up what you call the superpower myth.
SODERBERG: Yes. What this book does -- I would like to think he read it and believed and just said, oh, we'll change course. But I suspect...
BEGALA: He's a big reader.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Big reader.
SODERBERG: I suspect it has more to do with reality.
What this book recommends is a new policy, can be either Democratic or Republican, of tough engagement, where the U.S. lead coalitions, becomes persuaders, not enforcers, and has zero tolerance for terrorists and proliferators. And that's a prescription for winning. And I hope the Bush administration takes it up and runs with it, because, if they do, you can have historic change, not only in the Middle East and Israel.
But, also, I strongly support the call for freedom around the world. But you just can't call for it. You have to lead it.
BEGALA: And, in fact, one of the arguments that Nancy makes in the book that I think is very relevant to today is the question of whether invading Iraq has helped or hurt us in the war on terror.
It's plainly going to benefit the Iraqis. I don't care, frankly. I care about America first. Here's what -- the argument Nancy makes in her book: "Rather than continue the pursuit of Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda in the mountains of Tora Bora, continue to ensure the stability of Afghanistan and strengthen the worldwide coalition against terrorism, President Bush chose to invade Iraq."
Now, in the cool light of day, isn't it true that it has been a real distraction from the real war on terror?
HUTCHINSON: That was the argument that John Kerry made in the last election and the American people didn't buy into that.
They recognize how important it is for our own security to be on the offensive war, not just in Afghanistan, but also in Iraq. And as someone who worked to protect our borders and transportation systems, the intelligence that we get taking the offensive in war, even in Iraq, has been a tremendous benefit for the security of our own nation. And the president made that point today again in his speech, reminding the American people it is going to be a long war. We have to be patient with this, but the offensive part of it is essential, to our own security here in the United States.
NOVAK: OK. We got to take a little break.
And when we come back, we'll ask why in the world was a senior Democratic senator praising the president after his speech today.
And what is the U.S. general in charge of coalition troops in Iraq saying about the shooting of an Italian journalist? Wolf Blitzer has that story right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, another big demonstration in Lebanon, but this time, it's pro-Syrian. We'll talk to Syrian's ambassador to the U.S.
The top U.S. general in Iraq talks about the shooting of a freed Italian hostage and the death of an Italian security specialist. General George Casey says America will work with Italy to learn the truth.
An investigating a 3,000-year-old mystery. Was King Tut murdered?
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Thank you, Wolf. Look forward to your report at the top of the hour.
Now, here at CROSSFIRE, we're talking about foreign policy. President Bush called Iraq the front line in the war against terrorists today. But critics of his invasion say that Iraq has allowed -- rather, the situation in Iraq has allowed terrorists to grow stronger as American might is bogged down in a long and painful occupation.
Continuing our debate, former Homeland Security Undersecretary Asa Hutchinson and Nancy Soderberg, former ambassador and adviser to President Clinton on national security, author of the new book "The Superpower Myth: The Use and Misuse of American Might."
NOVAK: Ms. Soderberg, let's listen to a critique of the president's speech today by a senior Democratic member of the Senate, Dianne Feinstein of California.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: I thought he set forward the foreign policy agenda of his administration for the next four years and, in doing so, gives very clear marching orders to his secretary of state. Clearly, the Middle East has moved to the top of his agenda.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NOVAK: What do you think of that analysis?
SODERBERG: I agree with it. And I wish they had given that speech four years ago. They have sat on the sidelines of the Middle East peace process for the last four years.
They now have an opportunity, with the death of Arafat, to make significant change. They need to focus on the need for reform in the Arab world. And they need to put America as an engager in the world. And I think they're going to try and do it. And it could be a historic second term. That doesn't support, necessarily, what's happened in the last four years. But you can change things and move in the right direction. And I think they have a chance to do that. BEGALA: There's an old saying, of course, in the South, where we're from. Talk is cheap. The president talked a lot today. But I have looked at the budget. The president's budget sets out $41 billion for Homeland Security, your old agency, to defend the homeland and $1 trillion for tax cuts. Are you people crazy? Why don't you defend the homeland first and give us tax cuts if there's something left over?
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I'm sorry to be rude, but...
HUTCHINSON: Well, I think, first of all, you can do more than one thing at a time. And the president recognizes that economic security is important, as national security is. And whenever you're looking at putting more money in the hands of the American taxpayer, whenever you're looking at preserving Social Security, these things are important to concentrate on.
And I think he's doing a masterful job on that. He's leading our country. Whenever you're looking at our homeland security funding, it's been -- I think it's a 6 percent increase, a very substantial increase in a tough budget time. And people could argue, well, you ought to spend more. I think he's balancing the objectives of trying to bring the deficit under control, keeping the economy moving and taking reasonable steps to protect our homeland. You could spend us into oblivion if you are not careful and don't have the right strategy. We have tried to have that balance.
(CROSSTALK)
NOVAK: Just -- just -- we're almost out of time, but, Ms. Soderberg, Paul says that was a triumphalist speech. I didn't think it was. Did you?
SODERBERG: I thought it was an upbeat speech, largely rhetoric. That's the role of a president. As he said, I think it depends on whether they can turn that rhetoric into real action.
NOVAK: Nancy Soderberg, thank you very much.
SODERBERG: My pleasure.
BEGALA: Asa Hutchinson, thank you as well.
NOVAK: Asa Hutchinson, thank you.
What is it about Hollywood and politics? Next, we'll tell you about an actor who says, forget his royal past. He could be president of the United States if he really wanted to.
(APPLAUSE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE) NOVAK: Another Hollywood sparkly thinks he can move into politics.
Will Smith, rapper-turned-actor, is overseas promoting his new movie, "Hitch." According to "The Washington Post"'s style section, Smith is telling Australian media -- quote -- "I really, truly believe I could be the president of the United States if I wanted to."
While he does admit that somebody could point out all the reasons it would never happen, he also says he has a weird naivete that makes him think it could happen. To tell the truth, I think Paul Begala has a better chance of becoming president.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: No, I'll tell you what. First off, we were all raised to believe anybody could grow up to be president. We look at George Bush, we know it's true, by God.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: But why not?
Unlike -- unlike President Bush, Will Smith has a successful business career before getting into politics. He actually speaks English.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Even when he raps. And why not an inaugural address that begins, yo, yo, my peeps? Wouldn't that be a great...
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
NOVAK: Are you signing up for the Will Smith for president campaign?
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: I am.
NOVAK: That's about -- I think a guy who was with Clinton from the beginning, that is a good, logical succession.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: From the left, I am Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
NOVAK: From the right, I'm Robert Novak. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
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