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CNN Crossfire
Rather Biased?
Aired March 09, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville; on the right, Bay Buchanan.
In the CROSSFIRE: anchor away.
DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS: Dan Rather reporting from New York. Good night.
ANNOUNCER: It's Dan Rather's last night at the anchor desk for CBS. That news has conservatives ready to celebrate. They say the anchorman was the best example of liberal bias on television. Critics say the scandal over a discredited report was just one more sign that he was taking sides during the presidential election. The newsman spent more than 40 years at CBS covering the biggest stories of our times. Was he really too liberal or were the claims of bias a sign of conservative bias in his critics?
Today, on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Bay Buchanan.
(APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Twenty-four years ago, Dan Rather became an anchorman of "CBS Everything News." Tonight is his last show. Dan's been taking heat from conservatives for years. They will say he's too liberal. They finally caught up with him using problems with his story he had about President Bush's National Guard service, or lack thereof, to help speed up his departure.
Joining me to debate all that is Bay Buchanan, president of the American Cause.
But, first, here's our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
What will we tell the children? Yes, I'm talking about all the little cowboys and cowgirls all across America trying to eat their Wheaties, respect their parents and say their prayers. It seems like the leader of the party of God, or, as it was formerly known, the Republican Party, the person who claims to set the moral tone of the nation, a self-proclaimed man of impeccable morality, one Tom DeLay, has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar, or, more appropriately, the money jar.
Documents from the civil trial show now confirm DeLay was much more active in gathering corporate donations for the Republican Party of Texas than previously believed. In fact, he was extremely active. What does this all mean? I don't claim to know what God thinks about it, but, apparently, it's against the law in Texas and is the focus of an increasing grand jury investigation into DeLay and his scummy fund- raising tactics. Yes, children, the leaders of the House Republicans is a sleazy guy. Get over it.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BAY BUCHANAN, GUEST CO-HOST: James, he's -- he's innocent until proven guilty. And he's not even a subject of that investigation into a fund-raiser that...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Sure he is. Well, sure he is.
BUCHANAN: He is not. Guilt by association.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I always used to say, people would say during President Clinton, they would go, oh my God, no. You know that rap.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... his hand in the money jar.
BUCHANAN: Well, listen, I'm going to tell you, he's a piker compared to what Bill Clinton was able to pull off. There's no question about that.
Teresa Heinz Kerry is back and as entertaining as ever. Taking a note out of Hillary's playbook, Teresa blames her husband's defeat on the vast right wing. In Seattle this weekend, the wife of John Kerry said she has lingering doubts of the legitimacy of the election. Her theory goes like this. Two brothers she calls hard right Republicans own 80 percent of the voting machines in the U.S. Therefore, it would be easy to hack into the mother machines that control the electronic voting.
Now, I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory now and again, and this one surely qualifies. But, in truth, Teresa, it really wasn't our army of right-wing hackers that sent your man back to the Senate. It was George W. Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: You know, I kind of like the fact that -- I kind like the fact she sticks up for her husband. And, you know, if my wife was saying something, I would believe in her right to the last end, and, you know, I would see what she has got to say.
But that's kind of appealing about the woman, that she wants to stand by her husband and...
BUCHANAN: But why blame everyone else for your problems?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Well, you know what? Maybe she loves her husband and doesn't want to blame him and wants to blame other people. That's a -- that's an understandable kind of thing there. It's kind of nice. I kind of like that.
Continuing to report on the party of God, or the Republican Party, they are now increasing their concern for following Jesus' love of wealth and material things and his utter contempt for the lame, the halt and the blind, and relying on New Testament saying that it is easier for a sick baby to get into heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
Well, according to today's "Washington Post," the House Senate and Budget Committees put those priorities into writing today. They unveiled fiscal blueprints that gave the way for additional tax relief to the wealthy, while they continue to ram through legislation to cut medical care and education for poor children, environmental protection for the rest of the country, and on focusing on giving the rich people more money than they already have.
Yes, the message is the GOP, well, slap the little snot-nosed, hair-lipped kid around to get rich people some more money.
(APPLAUSE)
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Yes, that's what Jesus said. He -- he was a very materialistic guy. And he didn't -- he didn't like all these damn beggars and poor people and homeless.
BUCHANAN: Nothing but scare tactics. You Democrats...
CARVILLE: People with leprosy and all that kind of stuff, huh?
BUCHANAN: You Democrats are terrific, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: You want that budget balanced, you constantly tell us. You criticize when it's not. But the way to do it is simply raise taxes on hardworking Americans. I don't think so, James, not...
CARVILLE: How are these little snot-nosed, hair-lipped babies going to get to heaven? Because Jesus doesn't like them. He doesn't like poor kids. He doesn't...
BUCHANAN: Plenty of money out there for them. (LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: He doesn't care if they're suffering.
BUCHANAN: We're just cutting some of those liberal things that they love to hang on to.
(BELL RINGING)
BUCHANAN: The delegation of Mexican senators -- that's right, from Mexico -- who are on a human rights committee are headed here to Arizona to investigate the impact of Prop 200.
Proposition 200 was the Arizona initiative that passed by a huge margin last November. It does exactly two things, requires proof of citizenship if you want to vote and requires proof of residency if you want to receive certain government benefits. The purpose of this trip, explained a spokesman, is to see what the real impact of Proposition 200 are on the illegal aliens in Arizona and to try to keep these types of laws from spreading all along the border.
That's right. Mexico is sending a human rights delegation to the U.S. to see what they can do to preserve the rights of illegal aliens to vote illegally in our elections and to illegally receive welfare and other benefits. Someone should stop this crowd at the border.
CARVILLE: But isn't President Bush -- doesn't he want to liberalize all these immigration laws and let more people from these countries in? I mean, doesn't that supply your corporate machinery with the...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: All conservatives don't agree with President Bush's position at all. And, certainly, what are we doing...
CARVILLE: I like immigration. I like to live a country that people want to go to. And myself, I think I like people from -- Hispanic people coming here. I like people from the Far East coming here.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: People from India coming here, people from...
BUCHANAN: What happened to the rule of law, James, the rule of law?
CARVILLE: Well, everywhere -- well, I like -- I like the -- I think immigrants make a real, real contribution to this country in very, very, very -- done very great things. And I'm -- it's good.
BUCHANAN: Well, sure, many of them have, but legally is what we're talking about. We want them here legally.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: All right.
Dan Rather will end his career as CBS News anchor tonight. A lot of conservatives have spent the last 24 years complaining that Rather was biased. We'll debate his legacy and the state of television news -- wow, that's a big topic -- just ahead.
ANNOUNCER: Get ahead of the CROSSFIRE. Sign up for CROSSFIRE's daily "Political Alert" e-mail. You'll get a preview of each day's show, plus an inside look at the day's political headlines. Just go to CNN.com/CROSSFIRE and sign up today.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Lately, even some of Dan Rather's colleagues talked about how hard it was to watch him work. Conservatives don't like watching him either. They have been accusing Rather -- a Rather liberal bias for years. Were they right or was it that he reported news they didn't like?
Today in the CROSSFIRE, a Democratic strategist and dear friend, a guy who used to sit in this chair, Bill Press.
And we're delighted to have you here, Bill.
BILL PRESS, BILLPRESS.COM: Thank you, James.
CARVILLE: And we're also delighted to have political consultant and radio talk show host Michael Graham.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Bill, let's go right to you on this. Good to have both of you with us today.
PRESS: Thank you, Bay.
BUCHANAN: In -- as an anchor, it is understood by conservatives, at least, that an anchor on a national television should be somebody that just presents the news of the day as objectively as possible. And conservatives' problem with Dan Rather was that he always had to spin it.
He was like a major spin doctor on television. Would you not agree that he -- his nightly shows were entirely liberal biased, and that is the problem that conservatives had with him?
PRESS: Well, let me say this. In November '84, Dan Rather said, Walter Mondale has seen the light at the end of the tunnel and it's out.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: Is that a liberal bias? In 1994, Dan Rather said, election results were scary enough to make the Democrats' fingernails sweat. In '88, he says George Bush is sweeping through the South like a tornado through a trailer park.
BUCHANAN: Yes, well, sometimes...
PRESS: The guy is colorful. He calls it like it is. You just don't like it when he says bad news about Republicans.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Listen, I can read as many of those as you can.
PRESS: I know. That's my...
BUCHANAN: The new Republican...
PRESS: That's my point.
BUCHANAN: Yes, but it's...
PRESS: But that's my point. He says many things on the left as he does on the right.
BUCHANAN: No, no, no.
PRESS: The guy is just a colorful commentator.
BUCHANAN: His purpose in September in his report was clearly to take out the president. That was his purpose. He became entirely too anxious to get something out there that would damage the president. And you say that that was objective journalism?
PRESS: You know what Dan Rather's mistake was in that report? He backed down. What Dan Rather should have said is, the documents were fake, but the substance is real.
BUCHANAN: He did.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
PRESS: George Bush -- George Bush did not do his National Guard service, and you know it.
MICHAEL GRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Here's the -- here we go, the liberal standard for the truth. It's fake, but accurate. That's their standard.
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: It's "The New York Times"' standard.
This is pathetic. Of course Dan Rather had to admit that Walter Mondale lost the election. He carried one state, for crying out loud.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Dan Rather couldn't spin that.
PRESS: But we're talking about -- we're talking about these Bush documents. Look, the fact is...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. The fact is, did George Bush pull strings to get in the National Guard and out of Vietnam? Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Wait a minute. The fact is...
PRESS: Yes.
GRAHAM: The fact is that the documents were faked at a stinking Kinko's. It took bloggers three seconds to tell it was a joke. And here's why the liberal bias...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: All right, just -- you are not really serious about all this, are you?
GRAHAM: Yes.
CARVILLE: You don't think it's like -- let me show you what one conservative said that maybe somebody on this set may know about the media.
Oh, Pat Buchanan.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: All right, he'll qualify. Let's see. "I've gotten balanced and broad coverage, all we could have asked. For heaven's sake, we all kid about the liberal media, but every Republican on Earth does that."
Isn't this just a kind of sham thing you all have got going?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... entertaining people with this. You don't mean any of this garbage, do you?
GRAHAM: Let me prove the -- let me prove the liberal media bias right now with this story today. You read any "New York Times," Washington Post," Democrat, whatever you read, and they say Dan Rather's career was hurt by documents that some believe were not confirmed. No, they are stinking fakes. Everyone knows they are fakes. You cannot get the mainstream media to even report the fact that they are fake.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Wait. Wait. Can I add something? All right, here we are. We have a male porn gay prostitute that was...
CARVILLE: Oh, no.
GRAHAM: That wasn't me.
CARVILLE: That wasn't -- was that in the White House?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: What are we going to tell the children?
GRAHAM: That was not me.
PRESS: Masquerading -- masquerading as a reporter in the White House. Does the media cover it? No. No.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: OK, let me give you...
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Let me...
CARVILLE: Oh, the little cowboys at home. Gay porn in the White House asking a...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Every day for two years. Does the media cover it? No.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: You don't want us to check personal lives. You told us we shouldn't check people's personal lives. The guy has a press pass. He goes into the press shop.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Let me talk about a real story that really matters.
Right now, we are -- we're going through this huge economic boom. We had 5.4 percent growth last year. Our unemployment is half of Germany and France's. (CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: You can't find that story anywhere in "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post." That's a real story. You can't find it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: You know what the only story is, is the price of oil. It's the only economic story you can get.
CARVILLE: Let me point out to you there was a story two days ago in "The New York Times" about good the economy was on the business page. We were covering -- there hadn't been a penny of income growth. And they ain't created a first job. And they are all blowing their nose about what a great -- what a great economy it is.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: See.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Here we go. Here we go. We had record job growth last year.
PRESS: No, you didn't.
GRAHAM: We've had 1.8 million jobs created in the last 12 months.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: And you cannot find that. During the Clinton years, if a guy made 12 bucks selling a pair of shoes, it was on the front page of "USA Today."
CARVILLE: Record job growth.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: It was record for George Bush, because he lost three million jobs and then he got a million back. That's a record for George Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Listen, obviously, let me -- no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: I just want to say something. I have to say to Michael, how do I know what the economy is doing? I read it in "The Washington Post," in "The New York Times." This morning in "The New York Times," there is an article about the fact that George Bush's policy seems to be working in the Middle East. Man, you either can't read or you don't look at the paper.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Here's the pathetic part. After watching the president get the snot kicked out of him for 12 months leading up to the election, where you could not get any coverage on the good news out of Iraq, finally, the news got so good that, on the day of the Iraqi elections, all these Democratic anchor people, like Dan Rather, are going, uh, gee, I guess we have to admit something went right now.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: And they were forced to by events.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: ... regarded it as very good.
PRESS: Yes. There were 35 found in a mass grave in Iraq yesterday. The news in Iraq is good. Wow. What planet are you on?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: I'm on the planet where -- I'm on -- I'm on the planet where eight million Iraqis voted. That's the planet I'm on.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Why is it that Americans...
PRESS: Bay, you're in charge.
BUCHANAN: Yes. Americans -- Dan Rather is supposed to be this objective person on both sides of it. He spins a little bit here, spins a little there. Why is it that only 27 percent of Americans can believe in what he says today? That is his numbers.
PRESS: Well, look, I don't know.
BUCHANAN: That's worse than Richard Nixon, I believe.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: I have got to tell you, Dan Rather has been at CBS for 42 years, all right? There are 10 million people that watch him every night and believe in him. You know what? I would give my right arm to have that job and to have that kind of career. He's been a great journalist. He's been a great anchor. And I say to Dan Rather, good career, sayonara, Godspeed, and a great career.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: And get your miserable backside elsewhere.
CARVILLE: Let me show you another quote here from an eloquent conservative, a big one, that says all this is just a joke. And it is. "I admit it. The liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures."
Now, you got Pat Buchanan and you got William Kristol. They all say -- why don't you guys just throw the towel in and say, look, this is just some kind of sideshow we got here? Nobody is serious about all this junk.
GRAHAM: I'm sure -- I'm sure it means -- I'm sure means nothing...
CARVILLE: It's just something that -- this president has failed to produce a single job. This president has failed to have success in Iraq.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: This president has run -- inherited a $5.6 trillion surplus and has run the country in the ditch.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And you know what? And we have got to blame Dan Rather for our failure.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: And Americans do not believe you guys either, because they voted for George W.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: You want to see the liberal media? Here's the liberal media, Paul Begala, James Carville, Bill Press. We are the liberal media. That's it.
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: Look, Dan Rather...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: All the rest are right-wingers.
BUCHANAN: All right, all right, I got to -- I got to take a break.
When we come back...
CARVILLE: What are we going to tell the children?
(LAUGHTER) BUCHANAN: Some say the mainstream media is liberal. Others say it is conservative. So, which is it? I don't know that we're going to solve it here, but it's -- we will give it a try.
And up in -- in the Congress, Wolf Blitzer is going to be telling us about some Major League Baseball players getting some invitations they won't be able to refuse.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, President Bush on rising gasoline prices. He says it is time to drill for oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
A congressional committee investigating baseball steroid abuse wants to hear from seven players, including Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Jason Giambi. Will they play ball?
And a dramatic rescue on a Texas lake. We have the pictures.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: After Dan Rather's final newscast tonight, CBS is going to show a prime-time retrospective of his career. Rather says he's not retiring. He's just moving into a job as a correspondent for "60 Minutes II." Is that enough to keep the bloggers and the conservatives happy?
Still in the CROSSFIRE, Michael Graham and Bill Press.
BUCHANAN: Bill, Howard Kurtz last summer...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: ... said -- No, I'm sorry. It was Evan Thomas, all right, a media -- one of a...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: "Newsweek."
BUCHANAN: Yes.
"The media wants Kerry to win. And I think they are going to portray Kerry and Edwards as being young and dynamic and optimistic. And there's going to be about this glow about them worthy of 15 points."
Howard Kurtz followed up by saying: "You are absolutely right. But I don't think it's going to be 15, only 5." That suggests, without this media bias, George Bush very much would have won by more like 56 to 60 percent.
PRESS: First of all, he did win, so stop complaining. Stop whining.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: I'm not complaining. I'm just making a case that the media is overly liberal.
PRESS: No, no, no, no, no. No. 1, you have got Evan -- Evan, whom I like, I respect, saying that.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: And then you got Howie Kurtz.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: OK.
CARVILLE: I know Evan Thomas. He's a smart man. That's just stupid.
PRESS: I think both of them are dead wrong.
I would to show -- I would like them to see and I would like you to show, instead of quoting somebody, the evidence of anti-Bush bias or pro-Kerry bias, which is harder to find, in the media in the last election. Why didn't the media condemn the Swift Boat ads, if they were so much in John Kerry's pocket?
BUCHANAN: Wait.
GRAHAM: Wait a minute.
PRESS: Instead, they repeated that -- those lies over and over and over again.
CARVILLE: Mike, let me ask you a question. We always hear about the -- the -- how smart the American people are and everything. Well, you know, actually, somebody went out and asked them, is the press coverage of George Bush -- W. Bush's election campaign fair or unfair? And by 19 points, it said it was fair, 56 to 37.
So, either you are smart and the American people are really stupid, or you are really stupid and the American people are really smart.
GRAHAM: Or you got that poll from the same place that John Kerry got his exit polls and it turns out they were totally wrong. You can't argue the fact that one in 10...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: .... they're 19 points wrong.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... 19 points wrong.
GRAHAM: Here are the facts. I hate to interrupt with facts, but here are the facts.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: One in 10 of American reporters identify themselves as conservatives.
CARVILLE: Right.
GRAHAM: Eight out of 10 American reporters identify themselves as either Democrats or liberals. They have overwhelmingly voted for the Democratic candidates in the last four presidential elections. Those are the facts.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: So, you are -- you are a -- a inside-the-beltway, brilliant radio talk show. And, you great unwashed out there, you are stupid.
(LAUGHTER)
GRAHAM: No, they're not.
CARVILLE: That's the message here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You stupid people, you don't know what you're doing.
GRAHAM: They know Dan Rather is biased. That's why they don't watch. Someone said...
CARVILLE: By 19 points.
PRESS: Michael, Michael, two points.
No. 1, I don't care how the reporters vote. I don't care what party they register. I care about their product. It doesn't matter whether -- it's their product. You look at their product, you look at the reports on the front page of every paper, on the inside pages. The reporters are doing their job. They're not showing they're biased.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Bill, let me ask you a quick question. Why is it that liberals cannot make it on talk radio? That just seems to be a lock by conservatives, generally speaking. Now, local ones, there are some places...
CARVILLE: That's because liberals, because our people are out working during the day. They haven't got time to listen to the damn radio all day. Why do you think?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Can I answer that question?
BUCHANAN: Yes.
PRESS: OK, I will tell you why. Because most radio producers in this country don't have the backbone of a member of Congress. And you know, that's pretty bad.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: They are afraid to hire liberals. Ed Schultz on Democracy Radio is a great talk show host. You watch him. He's going to be the next Rush Limbaugh. Al Franken is kicking ass on talk radio. Air America is doing great. And you know what else? Bill Press is going to launch a new show in about two weeks nationwide, and I'm going to beat Rush Limbaugh.
GRAHAM: Well, Bill Press...
CARVILLE: Whoa.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: You heard it here first.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I like that.
GRAHAM: Air America's numbers are nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: But the reason why people turn to -- the reason people turn to conservative talk radio is because the mainstream media is dominated by liberals. Dan Rather is just as open in his biases as Rush Limbaugh is. It's, Dan Rather doesn't admit it. That's the only difference -- well, no, that's not the only difference.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: He does it as an anchor.
GRAHAM: Rush Limbaugh is entertaining and intelligent and has ratings. But other than that... CARVILLE: The liberal media has to cut you off here. There you go.
All right, Bill -- former President Bill Clinton gets ready for surgery in a most unusual way. We'll tell you how when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Even though Bill Clinton has surgery scheduled for tomorrow, he is spending more time on the golf course first.
The former president played a charity event with golfer Greg Norman in Florida. The first President Bush was there, too, as part of the ex-presidents' efforts to raise money for tsunami relief. President Clinton is heading back to New York, so doctors can remove fluid and scar tissue that has built up since his heart surgery. Even so, he says it's working out better than his last attempt to play golf with Greg Norman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is my second attempt to play this course. And the first time I went to a hospital because I fell off Greg's step and tore my quadricep. And so, as far as I'm concerned, I'm way ahead. At least I get to play before I go to the hospital this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: James, you know, did you see that rain down there? and those guys didn't stop. It is pouring.
CARVILLE: Didn't stop. But you know what? I guess those tsunami people got pretty wet, too. So, it wasn't -- it wasn't too much to ask Greg Norman. I think it was nice to play that. They can get some money over there.
BUCHANAN: Yes, they probably didn't, but Israeli bet you the doctors of -- Bill Clinton's doctors were probably looking at that rain.
CARVILLE: I bet so, too. Right.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Last thing he needs.
CARVILLE: Well, I know everybody wishes him well tomorrow.
From the left, I'm James Carville. And that's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: And from the right, I'm Bay Buchanan. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
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Aired March 9, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, James Carville; on the right, Bay Buchanan.
In the CROSSFIRE: anchor away.
DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS: Dan Rather reporting from New York. Good night.
ANNOUNCER: It's Dan Rather's last night at the anchor desk for CBS. That news has conservatives ready to celebrate. They say the anchorman was the best example of liberal bias on television. Critics say the scandal over a discredited report was just one more sign that he was taking sides during the presidential election. The newsman spent more than 40 years at CBS covering the biggest stories of our times. Was he really too liberal or were the claims of bias a sign of conservative bias in his critics?
Today, on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, James Carville and Bay Buchanan.
(APPLAUSE)
JAMES CARVILLE, CO-HOST: Twenty-four years ago, Dan Rather became an anchorman of "CBS Everything News." Tonight is his last show. Dan's been taking heat from conservatives for years. They will say he's too liberal. They finally caught up with him using problems with his story he had about President Bush's National Guard service, or lack thereof, to help speed up his departure.
Joining me to debate all that is Bay Buchanan, president of the American Cause.
But, first, here's our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
What will we tell the children? Yes, I'm talking about all the little cowboys and cowgirls all across America trying to eat their Wheaties, respect their parents and say their prayers. It seems like the leader of the party of God, or, as it was formerly known, the Republican Party, the person who claims to set the moral tone of the nation, a self-proclaimed man of impeccable morality, one Tom DeLay, has been caught with his hand in the cookie jar, or, more appropriately, the money jar.
Documents from the civil trial show now confirm DeLay was much more active in gathering corporate donations for the Republican Party of Texas than previously believed. In fact, he was extremely active. What does this all mean? I don't claim to know what God thinks about it, but, apparently, it's against the law in Texas and is the focus of an increasing grand jury investigation into DeLay and his scummy fund- raising tactics. Yes, children, the leaders of the House Republicans is a sleazy guy. Get over it.
(LAUGHTER)
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BAY BUCHANAN, GUEST CO-HOST: James, he's -- he's innocent until proven guilty. And he's not even a subject of that investigation into a fund-raiser that...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Sure he is. Well, sure he is.
BUCHANAN: He is not. Guilt by association.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I always used to say, people would say during President Clinton, they would go, oh my God, no. You know that rap.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... his hand in the money jar.
BUCHANAN: Well, listen, I'm going to tell you, he's a piker compared to what Bill Clinton was able to pull off. There's no question about that.
Teresa Heinz Kerry is back and as entertaining as ever. Taking a note out of Hillary's playbook, Teresa blames her husband's defeat on the vast right wing. In Seattle this weekend, the wife of John Kerry said she has lingering doubts of the legitimacy of the election. Her theory goes like this. Two brothers she calls hard right Republicans own 80 percent of the voting machines in the U.S. Therefore, it would be easy to hack into the mother machines that control the electronic voting.
Now, I do enjoy a good conspiracy theory now and again, and this one surely qualifies. But, in truth, Teresa, it really wasn't our army of right-wing hackers that sent your man back to the Senate. It was George W. Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: You know, I kind of like the fact that -- I kind like the fact she sticks up for her husband. And, you know, if my wife was saying something, I would believe in her right to the last end, and, you know, I would see what she has got to say.
But that's kind of appealing about the woman, that she wants to stand by her husband and...
BUCHANAN: But why blame everyone else for your problems?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: Well, you know what? Maybe she loves her husband and doesn't want to blame him and wants to blame other people. That's a -- that's an understandable kind of thing there. It's kind of nice. I kind of like that.
Continuing to report on the party of God, or the Republican Party, they are now increasing their concern for following Jesus' love of wealth and material things and his utter contempt for the lame, the halt and the blind, and relying on New Testament saying that it is easier for a sick baby to get into heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
Well, according to today's "Washington Post," the House Senate and Budget Committees put those priorities into writing today. They unveiled fiscal blueprints that gave the way for additional tax relief to the wealthy, while they continue to ram through legislation to cut medical care and education for poor children, environmental protection for the rest of the country, and on focusing on giving the rich people more money than they already have.
Yes, the message is the GOP, well, slap the little snot-nosed, hair-lipped kid around to get rich people some more money.
(APPLAUSE)
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: Yes, that's what Jesus said. He -- he was a very materialistic guy. And he didn't -- he didn't like all these damn beggars and poor people and homeless.
BUCHANAN: Nothing but scare tactics. You Democrats...
CARVILLE: People with leprosy and all that kind of stuff, huh?
BUCHANAN: You Democrats are terrific, you know?
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: You want that budget balanced, you constantly tell us. You criticize when it's not. But the way to do it is simply raise taxes on hardworking Americans. I don't think so, James, not...
CARVILLE: How are these little snot-nosed, hair-lipped babies going to get to heaven? Because Jesus doesn't like them. He doesn't like poor kids. He doesn't...
BUCHANAN: Plenty of money out there for them. (LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: He doesn't care if they're suffering.
BUCHANAN: We're just cutting some of those liberal things that they love to hang on to.
(BELL RINGING)
BUCHANAN: The delegation of Mexican senators -- that's right, from Mexico -- who are on a human rights committee are headed here to Arizona to investigate the impact of Prop 200.
Proposition 200 was the Arizona initiative that passed by a huge margin last November. It does exactly two things, requires proof of citizenship if you want to vote and requires proof of residency if you want to receive certain government benefits. The purpose of this trip, explained a spokesman, is to see what the real impact of Proposition 200 are on the illegal aliens in Arizona and to try to keep these types of laws from spreading all along the border.
That's right. Mexico is sending a human rights delegation to the U.S. to see what they can do to preserve the rights of illegal aliens to vote illegally in our elections and to illegally receive welfare and other benefits. Someone should stop this crowd at the border.
CARVILLE: But isn't President Bush -- doesn't he want to liberalize all these immigration laws and let more people from these countries in? I mean, doesn't that supply your corporate machinery with the...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: All conservatives don't agree with President Bush's position at all. And, certainly, what are we doing...
CARVILLE: I like immigration. I like to live a country that people want to go to. And myself, I think I like people from -- Hispanic people coming here. I like people from the Far East coming here.
(BELL RINGING)
CARVILLE: People from India coming here, people from...
BUCHANAN: What happened to the rule of law, James, the rule of law?
CARVILLE: Well, everywhere -- well, I like -- I like the -- I think immigrants make a real, real contribution to this country in very, very, very -- done very great things. And I'm -- it's good.
BUCHANAN: Well, sure, many of them have, but legally is what we're talking about. We want them here legally.
(CROSSTALK) CARVILLE: All right.
Dan Rather will end his career as CBS News anchor tonight. A lot of conservatives have spent the last 24 years complaining that Rather was biased. We'll debate his legacy and the state of television news -- wow, that's a big topic -- just ahead.
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(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Lately, even some of Dan Rather's colleagues talked about how hard it was to watch him work. Conservatives don't like watching him either. They have been accusing Rather -- a Rather liberal bias for years. Were they right or was it that he reported news they didn't like?
Today in the CROSSFIRE, a Democratic strategist and dear friend, a guy who used to sit in this chair, Bill Press.
And we're delighted to have you here, Bill.
BILL PRESS, BILLPRESS.COM: Thank you, James.
CARVILLE: And we're also delighted to have political consultant and radio talk show host Michael Graham.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Bill, let's go right to you on this. Good to have both of you with us today.
PRESS: Thank you, Bay.
BUCHANAN: In -- as an anchor, it is understood by conservatives, at least, that an anchor on a national television should be somebody that just presents the news of the day as objectively as possible. And conservatives' problem with Dan Rather was that he always had to spin it.
He was like a major spin doctor on television. Would you not agree that he -- his nightly shows were entirely liberal biased, and that is the problem that conservatives had with him?
PRESS: Well, let me say this. In November '84, Dan Rather said, Walter Mondale has seen the light at the end of the tunnel and it's out.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: Is that a liberal bias? In 1994, Dan Rather said, election results were scary enough to make the Democrats' fingernails sweat. In '88, he says George Bush is sweeping through the South like a tornado through a trailer park.
BUCHANAN: Yes, well, sometimes...
PRESS: The guy is colorful. He calls it like it is. You just don't like it when he says bad news about Republicans.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Listen, I can read as many of those as you can.
PRESS: I know. That's my...
BUCHANAN: The new Republican...
PRESS: That's my point.
BUCHANAN: Yes, but it's...
PRESS: But that's my point. He says many things on the left as he does on the right.
BUCHANAN: No, no, no.
PRESS: The guy is just a colorful commentator.
BUCHANAN: His purpose in September in his report was clearly to take out the president. That was his purpose. He became entirely too anxious to get something out there that would damage the president. And you say that that was objective journalism?
PRESS: You know what Dan Rather's mistake was in that report? He backed down. What Dan Rather should have said is, the documents were fake, but the substance is real.
BUCHANAN: He did.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
PRESS: George Bush -- George Bush did not do his National Guard service, and you know it.
MICHAEL GRAHAM, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Here's the -- here we go, the liberal standard for the truth. It's fake, but accurate. That's their standard.
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: It's "The New York Times"' standard.
This is pathetic. Of course Dan Rather had to admit that Walter Mondale lost the election. He carried one state, for crying out loud.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Dan Rather couldn't spin that.
PRESS: But we're talking about -- we're talking about these Bush documents. Look, the fact is...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. The fact is, did George Bush pull strings to get in the National Guard and out of Vietnam? Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Wait a minute. The fact is...
PRESS: Yes.
GRAHAM: The fact is that the documents were faked at a stinking Kinko's. It took bloggers three seconds to tell it was a joke. And here's why the liberal bias...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: All right, just -- you are not really serious about all this, are you?
GRAHAM: Yes.
CARVILLE: You don't think it's like -- let me show you what one conservative said that maybe somebody on this set may know about the media.
Oh, Pat Buchanan.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: All right, he'll qualify. Let's see. "I've gotten balanced and broad coverage, all we could have asked. For heaven's sake, we all kid about the liberal media, but every Republican on Earth does that."
Isn't this just a kind of sham thing you all have got going?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... entertaining people with this. You don't mean any of this garbage, do you?
GRAHAM: Let me prove the -- let me prove the liberal media bias right now with this story today. You read any "New York Times," Washington Post," Democrat, whatever you read, and they say Dan Rather's career was hurt by documents that some believe were not confirmed. No, they are stinking fakes. Everyone knows they are fakes. You cannot get the mainstream media to even report the fact that they are fake.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Wait. Wait. Can I add something? All right, here we are. We have a male porn gay prostitute that was...
CARVILLE: Oh, no.
GRAHAM: That wasn't me.
CARVILLE: That wasn't -- was that in the White House?
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: What are we going to tell the children?
GRAHAM: That was not me.
PRESS: Masquerading -- masquerading as a reporter in the White House. Does the media cover it? No. No.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: OK, let me give you...
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Let me...
CARVILLE: Oh, the little cowboys at home. Gay porn in the White House asking a...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Every day for two years. Does the media cover it? No.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: You don't want us to check personal lives. You told us we shouldn't check people's personal lives. The guy has a press pass. He goes into the press shop.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Let me talk about a real story that really matters.
Right now, we are -- we're going through this huge economic boom. We had 5.4 percent growth last year. Our unemployment is half of Germany and France's. (CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: You can't find that story anywhere in "The New York Times" and "The Washington Post." That's a real story. You can't find it.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: You know what the only story is, is the price of oil. It's the only economic story you can get.
CARVILLE: Let me point out to you there was a story two days ago in "The New York Times" about good the economy was on the business page. We were covering -- there hadn't been a penny of income growth. And they ain't created a first job. And they are all blowing their nose about what a great -- what a great economy it is.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: See.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Here we go. Here we go. We had record job growth last year.
PRESS: No, you didn't.
GRAHAM: We've had 1.8 million jobs created in the last 12 months.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: And you cannot find that. During the Clinton years, if a guy made 12 bucks selling a pair of shoes, it was on the front page of "USA Today."
CARVILLE: Record job growth.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: It was record for George Bush, because he lost three million jobs and then he got a million back. That's a record for George Bush.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Listen, obviously, let me -- no, no.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: I just want to say something. I have to say to Michael, how do I know what the economy is doing? I read it in "The Washington Post," in "The New York Times." This morning in "The New York Times," there is an article about the fact that George Bush's policy seems to be working in the Middle East. Man, you either can't read or you don't look at the paper.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: Here's the pathetic part. After watching the president get the snot kicked out of him for 12 months leading up to the election, where you could not get any coverage on the good news out of Iraq, finally, the news got so good that, on the day of the Iraqi elections, all these Democratic anchor people, like Dan Rather, are going, uh, gee, I guess we have to admit something went right now.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: And they were forced to by events.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: ... regarded it as very good.
PRESS: Yes. There were 35 found in a mass grave in Iraq yesterday. The news in Iraq is good. Wow. What planet are you on?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: I'm on the planet where -- I'm on -- I'm on the planet where eight million Iraqis voted. That's the planet I'm on.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Why is it that Americans...
PRESS: Bay, you're in charge.
BUCHANAN: Yes. Americans -- Dan Rather is supposed to be this objective person on both sides of it. He spins a little bit here, spins a little there. Why is it that only 27 percent of Americans can believe in what he says today? That is his numbers.
PRESS: Well, look, I don't know.
BUCHANAN: That's worse than Richard Nixon, I believe.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: I have got to tell you, Dan Rather has been at CBS for 42 years, all right? There are 10 million people that watch him every night and believe in him. You know what? I would give my right arm to have that job and to have that kind of career. He's been a great journalist. He's been a great anchor. And I say to Dan Rather, good career, sayonara, Godspeed, and a great career.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: And get your miserable backside elsewhere.
CARVILLE: Let me show you another quote here from an eloquent conservative, a big one, that says all this is just a joke. And it is. "I admit it. The liberal media were never that powerful, and the whole thing was often used as an excuse by conservatives for conservative failures."
Now, you got Pat Buchanan and you got William Kristol. They all say -- why don't you guys just throw the towel in and say, look, this is just some kind of sideshow we got here? Nobody is serious about all this junk.
GRAHAM: I'm sure -- I'm sure it means -- I'm sure means nothing...
CARVILLE: It's just something that -- this president has failed to produce a single job. This president has failed to have success in Iraq.
(LAUGHTER)
CARVILLE: This president has run -- inherited a $5.6 trillion surplus and has run the country in the ditch.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: And you know what? And we have got to blame Dan Rather for our failure.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: And Americans do not believe you guys either, because they voted for George W.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: You want to see the liberal media? Here's the liberal media, Paul Begala, James Carville, Bill Press. We are the liberal media. That's it.
(APPLAUSE)
GRAHAM: Look, Dan Rather...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: All the rest are right-wingers.
BUCHANAN: All right, all right, I got to -- I got to take a break.
When we come back...
CARVILLE: What are we going to tell the children?
(LAUGHTER) BUCHANAN: Some say the mainstream media is liberal. Others say it is conservative. So, which is it? I don't know that we're going to solve it here, but it's -- we will give it a try.
And up in -- in the Congress, Wolf Blitzer is going to be telling us about some Major League Baseball players getting some invitations they won't be able to refuse.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, President Bush on rising gasoline prices. He says it is time to drill for oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.
A congressional committee investigating baseball steroid abuse wants to hear from seven players, including Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa and Jason Giambi. Will they play ball?
And a dramatic rescue on a Texas lake. We have the pictures.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: After Dan Rather's final newscast tonight, CBS is going to show a prime-time retrospective of his career. Rather says he's not retiring. He's just moving into a job as a correspondent for "60 Minutes II." Is that enough to keep the bloggers and the conservatives happy?
Still in the CROSSFIRE, Michael Graham and Bill Press.
BUCHANAN: Bill, Howard Kurtz last summer...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: ... said -- No, I'm sorry. It was Evan Thomas, all right, a media -- one of a...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: "Newsweek."
BUCHANAN: Yes.
"The media wants Kerry to win. And I think they are going to portray Kerry and Edwards as being young and dynamic and optimistic. And there's going to be about this glow about them worthy of 15 points."
Howard Kurtz followed up by saying: "You are absolutely right. But I don't think it's going to be 15, only 5." That suggests, without this media bias, George Bush very much would have won by more like 56 to 60 percent.
PRESS: First of all, he did win, so stop complaining. Stop whining.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: I'm not complaining. I'm just making a case that the media is overly liberal.
PRESS: No, no, no, no, no. No. 1, you have got Evan -- Evan, whom I like, I respect, saying that.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: And then you got Howie Kurtz.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: OK.
CARVILLE: I know Evan Thomas. He's a smart man. That's just stupid.
PRESS: I think both of them are dead wrong.
I would to show -- I would like them to see and I would like you to show, instead of quoting somebody, the evidence of anti-Bush bias or pro-Kerry bias, which is harder to find, in the media in the last election. Why didn't the media condemn the Swift Boat ads, if they were so much in John Kerry's pocket?
BUCHANAN: Wait.
GRAHAM: Wait a minute.
PRESS: Instead, they repeated that -- those lies over and over and over again.
CARVILLE: Mike, let me ask you a question. We always hear about the -- the -- how smart the American people are and everything. Well, you know, actually, somebody went out and asked them, is the press coverage of George Bush -- W. Bush's election campaign fair or unfair? And by 19 points, it said it was fair, 56 to 37.
So, either you are smart and the American people are really stupid, or you are really stupid and the American people are really smart.
GRAHAM: Or you got that poll from the same place that John Kerry got his exit polls and it turns out they were totally wrong. You can't argue the fact that one in 10...
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: .... they're 19 points wrong.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: ... 19 points wrong.
GRAHAM: Here are the facts. I hate to interrupt with facts, but here are the facts.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: One in 10 of American reporters identify themselves as conservatives.
CARVILLE: Right.
GRAHAM: Eight out of 10 American reporters identify themselves as either Democrats or liberals. They have overwhelmingly voted for the Democratic candidates in the last four presidential elections. Those are the facts.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: So, you are -- you are a -- a inside-the-beltway, brilliant radio talk show. And, you great unwashed out there, you are stupid.
(LAUGHTER)
GRAHAM: No, they're not.
CARVILLE: That's the message here.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: You stupid people, you don't know what you're doing.
GRAHAM: They know Dan Rather is biased. That's why they don't watch. Someone said...
CARVILLE: By 19 points.
PRESS: Michael, Michael, two points.
No. 1, I don't care how the reporters vote. I don't care what party they register. I care about their product. It doesn't matter whether -- it's their product. You look at their product, you look at the reports on the front page of every paper, on the inside pages. The reporters are doing their job. They're not showing they're biased.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Bill, let me ask you a quick question. Why is it that liberals cannot make it on talk radio? That just seems to be a lock by conservatives, generally speaking. Now, local ones, there are some places...
CARVILLE: That's because liberals, because our people are out working during the day. They haven't got time to listen to the damn radio all day. Why do you think?
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Can I answer that question?
BUCHANAN: Yes.
PRESS: OK, I will tell you why. Because most radio producers in this country don't have the backbone of a member of Congress. And you know, that's pretty bad.
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: They are afraid to hire liberals. Ed Schultz on Democracy Radio is a great talk show host. You watch him. He's going to be the next Rush Limbaugh. Al Franken is kicking ass on talk radio. Air America is doing great. And you know what else? Bill Press is going to launch a new show in about two weeks nationwide, and I'm going to beat Rush Limbaugh.
GRAHAM: Well, Bill Press...
CARVILLE: Whoa.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: You heard it here first.
(CROSSTALK)
CARVILLE: I like that.
GRAHAM: Air America's numbers are nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
GRAHAM: But the reason why people turn to -- the reason people turn to conservative talk radio is because the mainstream media is dominated by liberals. Dan Rather is just as open in his biases as Rush Limbaugh is. It's, Dan Rather doesn't admit it. That's the only difference -- well, no, that's not the only difference.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: He does it as an anchor.
GRAHAM: Rush Limbaugh is entertaining and intelligent and has ratings. But other than that... CARVILLE: The liberal media has to cut you off here. There you go.
All right, Bill -- former President Bill Clinton gets ready for surgery in a most unusual way. We'll tell you how when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
CARVILLE: Even though Bill Clinton has surgery scheduled for tomorrow, he is spending more time on the golf course first.
The former president played a charity event with golfer Greg Norman in Florida. The first President Bush was there, too, as part of the ex-presidents' efforts to raise money for tsunami relief. President Clinton is heading back to New York, so doctors can remove fluid and scar tissue that has built up since his heart surgery. Even so, he says it's working out better than his last attempt to play golf with Greg Norman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is my second attempt to play this course. And the first time I went to a hospital because I fell off Greg's step and tore my quadricep. And so, as far as I'm concerned, I'm way ahead. At least I get to play before I go to the hospital this time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: James, you know, did you see that rain down there? and those guys didn't stop. It is pouring.
CARVILLE: Didn't stop. But you know what? I guess those tsunami people got pretty wet, too. So, it wasn't -- it wasn't too much to ask Greg Norman. I think it was nice to play that. They can get some money over there.
BUCHANAN: Yes, they probably didn't, but Israeli bet you the doctors of -- Bill Clinton's doctors were probably looking at that rain.
CARVILLE: I bet so, too. Right.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Last thing he needs.
CARVILLE: Well, I know everybody wishes him well tomorrow.
From the left, I'm James Carville. And that's it for CROSSFIRE.
CARVILLE: And from the right, I'm Bay Buchanan. Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
(APPLAUSE)
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