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CNN Crossfire
Jesse Jackson Joins Parents of Terri Schiavo
Aired March 29, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; on the right, Bay Buchanan.
In the CROSSFIRE: Terri Schiavo's parents continue to reach out, trying to find help for their daughter.
REV. JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Because this is one of the profound moral, ethical issues of our time, the saving of Terri's life. And today, we -- we pray for a miracle.
ANNOUNCER: A call goes out to the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as Schiavo enters her 12th day without food and water.
MARY SCHINDLER, MOTHER OF TERRI SCHIAVO: I wanted the Reverend Jackson here today for moral support, because he has spoke out for Terri before on television. And I just feel good with him here.
ANNOUNCER: Reaching out to the people who support Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers agree to sell a list of financial supporters to a conservative direct mailing company. Is anyone trying to profit from this tragedy?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Bay Buchanan.
(APPLAUSE)
BAY BUCHANAN, GUEST CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Terri Schiavo continues to cling to life in a Florida hospice, while her parents keep looking for ways to save their child. Today, Reverend Jesse Jackson joined them in Pinellas Park. He wasn't allowed to see Terri, but he says he worked the phones, urging Florida lawmakers to find a creative solution that would help save the dying woman.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: In another development in this tragic story, right-wing pressure groups are a already poised to make a buck on Ms. Schiavo's suffering. It has been reported that conservative direct mailers have gotten their hands on a list of people who contributed money to help the Schindlers, which is the issue on which we will begin the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
As we mentioned a moment ago, as Terri Schiavo slowly shuffles off this mortal coil, right-wing vultures are already cashing in on her suffering. John Schwartz and David Kirkpatrick of "The New York Times" report today that a right-wing direct marketing firm has received permission from Ms. Schiavo's parents to sell the list of donors to Ms. Schiavo's cause.
Even the parents' spokeswoman, Pamela Hennessy, who, by the way, is unpaid, is disgusting by this pre-death grave robbing, telling "The Times" -- quote -- "It is possibly the most distasteful thing I have ever seen. Everybody is making a buck off of her."
Well, she's got a good point. And to be fair, we in the media are certainly making money from the heightened ratings that Ms. Schiavo's tragedy brings. But selling the name of her supporters to the highest bidder, that's a different order of ghoulish greed altogether, a combination of sanctimony and avarice that is the perfect expression of right-wing Republicanism at the dawn of the 21st century.
BUCHANAN: Paul, I have to ask you, who is selling this list? It's certainly not Republicans. They don't have the list. Is this list being sold, so that the people who own it can raise money for the legal bills?
BEGALA: It's being sold to whoever wants to pay for it to sell whatever it is that they want. I don't know.
BUCHANAN: So...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: You would agree...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Maybe whiskey. It is ghoulish. It is greedy. It is disgusting and beneath contempt.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: ... liberals.
BUCHANAN: I think you should not use the list for using her name at all, but if you're helping her parents pay those legal bills, all the more power to them.
Standing in the Rose Garden today, President Bush spoke of a continuing progress in Iraq. The president continues to be optimistic about move towards democracy taking place there, noting that Iraqis are taking -- quote -- "big steps on a long journey" -- unquote.
While many continue to focus only on insurgents or on other problems in Iraq, there are those on the ground who say so much good is happening and too many critics are ignoring the successes. Iraq's parliament, for instance, held its second meeting today. And while the meeting was marked by disagreements, that is to simply be expected in the political process. And all this is testimony to the eight million Iraqis who risked their lives to vote.
Then, there is the Iraqi military, anxious to move to the front lines, we hear. They have asked that the Americans continue to train them, so the American troops will be behind them, goal, by the year's end. Now, that progress would even be applauded by my friend Paul here, I suspect.
BEGALA: If there were, indeed, progress. There is a little sometimes. The vote seemed to be a good thing back in January. Here it is nearly April and they still haven't even constituted a government. Donald Rumsfeld today...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: ... speaking not long after the president...
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: ... called into question the confidence and ethics of these very Iraqi politicians that President Bush was bragging on. I think this is one where Rumsfeld is probably closer to the truth than Mr. Bush.
BUCHANAN: Hey, hey, we can't tell them to move faster than they're moving. We can push them as best we can. But, dang it, but they're having parliamentary meetings and there's debate. Is that interesting? Not something they had under...
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I cannot wait until we get a chance -- I can't wait until we get a chance to debate that on this broadcast.
Well, Republicans are running from Tom DeLay like the devil runs from holy water.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Even the right wing kooks at "The Wall Street Journal"'s editorial page have opined that DeLay's junkets paid by gambling interests and corrupt lobbyists have given him what "The Journal" calls an odor. House Speaker Dennis Hastert is now reportedly trying to distance himself from the malodorous Mr. DeLay, but it was Hastert who called members back for a special circus over Terri Schiavo.
It was Hastert who personally presided over that circus for three hours. And President Bush's aides are now telling the media that the president didn't really want to fly back to D.C. to sign Mr. DeLay's bill. Right, guys. What, was he Kidnapped, forcibly dragged from his ranch on to Air Force One?
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Look, the truth is, the most powerful men in the Republican Party are, in fact, dominated by the most corrupt man in the Republican Party, Tom DeLay.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: You know, Paul, your distaste for Tom DeLay really has thrown you off, I believe.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: You don't think clearly. Come on. He should be held accountable, if there is any evidence of wrongdoing. We believe all politicians should be held accountable. And if you all would have taken, I think would be less hypocritical if you had held a president accountable for his actions. But you didn't seem too interested...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Hey, this was "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page, who even defended Ken Starr, the most unethical prosecutor I've ever seen.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: ... going after a Democrat.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: They finally found someone who is too unethical for "The Wall Street Journal," and it happens to be Tom DeLay.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: That's a stunning thing.
BUCHANAN: If you had a feeling that America's colleges and universities were full of left-wing liberal professors indoctrinating our youth, you were right. There's proof now.
The new study shows that 72 percent -- that's right, 72 percent -- of university faculty members call themselves liberals. Obviously, several of them are lying.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Only 15 percent say they're conservatives. They're in the business school, I think.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: One of the study's authors suggests that it could be possible discrimination in hiring and promoting in -- promoting conservative faculty members. Possible, possible discrimination? Oh, come on. We've known it's been there for years. Conservatives have been saying just this. Liberals have embedded themselves in those ivory towers decades ago and have lost any interest in offering students a point of view different from their own.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: As a result, there is now a backlash and there are campuses in which conservative students are demanding diversity of thought. Imagine. Imagine. Could this be the end of political correctness and a return to intellectual honesty on campuses? One could only be hopeful.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, so you want to replace liberal political correctness with conservative political correctness.
BUCHANAN: No. I want both.
BEGALA: It is true that P.C. is the enemy of real liberalism, whether it's the right or the left.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: By the way, liberal means broad-minded, open-minded, wanting to hear both sides. I hope all professors are liberal in that sense.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Don't count on it.
BEGALA: Well, as Terri Schiavo nears death, the fight over her legacy keeps going. We will debate the political struggle being waged over this woman's life, next on CROSSFIRE.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE and the latest issues surrounding Terri Schiavo.
Reverend Jesse Jackson was in Florida today to meet with the Schindler family. He said what is happening to Terri is, in his words, an injustice. Now, conservatives routinely denounce Reverend Jackson as a publicity hound. But, suddenly, today, he's their hero. Today in the CROSSFIRE to discuss this and other developments in a sad story, Terry Jeffrey, editor of "Human Events," and Democratic strategist and longtime CROSSFIRE co-host, my friend Bill Press.
Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
BILL PRESS, BILLPRESS.COM: Thank you, Paul. Good to be here.
BEGALA: Always good to have you.
BUCHANAN: Welcome.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: I'm going to start with you, Bill.
Jesse Jackson, as you just heard went down to Florida to help the parents of Terri Schiavo. Here's one of his comments that he made.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: Without water or food, without even ice cubes for her lips for 12 days, she is still alive. That should send a message to all of us that, while law is important, law must be tempered with mercy to have justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCHANAN: Bill, would you not agree that Reverend Jackson here has made an interesting point, in the fact that something is wrong when a dying woman's parents cannot give her ice chips to comfort her and her priest cannot give her communion, which is what we hear today?
PRESS: Well, let me ask you, did you agree with Reverend Jackson over the weekend when he compared Michael Jackson to Nelson Mandela?
BUCHANAN: I don't think that's what the discussion is today. I think we're talking about an issue of Terri.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Well, I think there's some points here.
BUCHANAN: I disagree with my brother on occasion, but when I do agree with him, and then I support him and I make my case. Can you not -- how can you defend the killing of this woman, not even allowing the parents to give her ice chips?
PRESS: It is not killing, No. 1.
BUCHANAN: Oh, yes, it is. She is not dying.
PRESS: It is not killing. You may say it. It is not killing. It is letting this poor woman die with dignity and die in peace. I disagree with Jesse Jackson.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: But you think her parents should give her ice cubes?
PRESS: I disagree with Jesse Jackson when he compares Michael Jackson to Nelson Mandela. And I disagree with Jesse Jackson in what he said today. He should butt out of this, the same way ethically challenged politicians like Tom DeLay ought to butt out of it.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Now, Terry, let me show you a photograph here. This is Wanda Hudson. Let me introduce you to Wanda Hudson.
Wanda Hudson is a fellow Texan. She's from Houston, which is my home town, not far from my home town. She was not on the cover of "Current Events magazine. She hasn't been on CNN. She's not a cause celebre on the right. Her 6-month-old son was killed. We were just debating whether or not it's killing to remove the feeding tube. Her boy was killed in Texas at a hospital against her wishes.
He was fully -- his brain was fully functioning. And, yet, because of a law George W. Bush signed into law in my state of Texas, the hospital was allowed to override the wishes of Wanda Hudson and kill Wanda Hudson's son because they believed that he was not going it be able to survive. Why haven't you made a cause out of that? Could it be -- well, just tell me why. I don't want to suggest why.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMAN EVENTS": I will tell you exactly why, Paul. This is the first time I have heard of this case.
BEGALA: Why is that?
JEFFREY: Why is it?
BEGALA: It is on the front page of "The New York Times." I haven't seen it in any of the right-wing publications.
JEFFREY: Well, look, let me say, I'm glad you apprised me of it. And let me tell you, given, if the facts as you have stated them are true, that a hospital took an act to deliberately kill that woman's son...
BEGALA: Pursuant to a law that George W. Bush signed for them so that they could save money, the most avaricious act imaginable.
JEFFREY: Now, do you want me to answer my question?
BEGALA: Yes. I'm dying to hear your answer.
JEFFREY: If a hospital in Texas took a deliberate act intended to kill that woman's son, the people who took that act are murderers. What they did was commit murder.
(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: ... who empowered them to do it, who signed that law, George W. Bush.
JEFFREY: And if George Bush signed a law that empowered hospitals to murder children, he's culpable for it. The people who are enforcing the law in Texas are now culpable for it. The law ought to be changed.
In fact, there's a key principle here. And it was -- it is a deliberate act to kill Terri Schiavo. You can never deliberately take the life of an innocent person. Starving Terri Schiavo to death in Florida today is no different than think a newborn baby from the hospital, locking them in a room and denying that baby food and water.
BEGALA: Or pulling the plug on son Hudson.
(APPLAUSE)
JEFFREY: It is -- it is cold-blooded murder.
BUCHANAN: All right, Bill, go ahead.
PRESS: I just want to make a point.
The point here, also, Paul, is the hypocrisy of George W. Bush , No. 1, who signed 154 death warrants when he was in Texas, not all of whom were guilty people, No. 2, who signed this law saying, it's up to the doctors, not up to the families. The doctors can overrule the family and the hospital ethics committee can overrule the family in every single case.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
PRESS: And then he runs back in his pajamas to sign a law for Terri Schiavo because Jerry Falwell told him to.
BUCHANAN: Now, let's get -- let's get back to this, Bill.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: You -- you -- you seem to have no problems with the courts saying that her parents cannot -- or the government saying her parents cannot comfort their dying daughter. You have no problems with the courts saying that they cannot care for her and -- at all.
But -- but you have a problem with somebody who believes that this person should be allowed to live and that the courts are wrong, coming in and interfering and saying, no, the courts are wrong; I'm going to save the life of this woman?
PRESS: Pardon me.
A fact here, OK? I did not push the federal courts into the Terri Schiavo case. It was Bill Frist, Tom DeLay and George W. Bush who passed emergency legislation expanding the reach of the federal government, expanding Big Brother, and asking the federal courts to go into this case, No. 1.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No. 2, let me ask -- I want to answer your question.
BUCHANAN: Yes. I would love that.
PRESS: Here's the bottom line for me, OK? I think this is one of the most personal and painful decisions any of us will have to make. I've been in a situation like this. And you know who I want in that hospital room? I want my family. I want my doctor. I want my priest or my minister. I don't want any grandstanding politician, Democrat or Republican. That's the bottom line.
(APPLAUSE)
JEFFREY: Well, by the way, Bill, if -- if that priest is a Catholic priest, he would have to tell the doctor that was trying to kill you that he is committing an immoral act of euthanasia that is specifically condemned by the Catholic Church. Not only in general, but in the specific case of Terri Schiavo, they have condemned this act.
PRESS: Well...
JEFFREY: Now, let me ask you...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Actually, I don't want to get into Catholic theology here.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me talk about something a little more...
PRESS: Address that to me, because I'm a Catholic. I want to respond to that, too.
JEFFREY: Right. Right.
PRESS: You know, the pope can be wrong. The pope...
(CROSSTALK)
JEFFREY: But this is not the pope.
PRESS: Now, Terry, Terry, it's my turn.
JEFFREY: This is not the pope.
BUCHANAN: So can a judge. JEFFREY: This is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. It's not the pope.
PRESS: Terry, I heard your point. This is my -- OK? The pope can be wrong. The pope says the death penalty is evil. Yet, Catholic Scalia is for it. Catholic Pat Buchanan is for it.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: The pope says birth control...
JEFFREY: What you just said is not factually true.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: ... standing there. I was in Saint Louis and he said it was part of the culture of death. Let's move on.
JEFFREY: Look, if people want to discuss what the pope said about the death penalty, they ought read his encyclical "Evangelium Vitae." They ought to understand it and they ought not to distort it, as you just did.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me ask you about other big development today.
PRESS: Come on, Terry. The Catholic bishops just launched a campaign to get rid of the death penalty.
JEFFREY: They did not say it was intrinsically evil. That is not the position of the Catholic Church.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Believe me, I can't wait to debate the death penalty and the hypocrisy of the right on that issue.
But let me talk about a different hypocrisy on the right. And that is the selling off of the list of donors, good-hearted people. Really, I disagree with them on this or that, but they are good- hearted people who are sending their money to try to help this woman and her mom and dad with their legal and medical bills.
And so, what are right-wing pressure groups doing? They're selling that list to make a buck. Here's the family spokeswoman, Pamela Hennessy, who, by the way, is not being paid and not making a nickel, volunteering her services in the cause that you support. Ms. Hennessy tells "The New York Times: "It is possibly the most distasteful thing I've ever seen. Everybody is trying to make a buck off of Terri Schiavo."
Isn't that disgusting? Can't you agree with that?
JEFFREY: First of all, well, let me tell you what I know in principle, because, again this is -- I don't know the specific facts of this case.
But, in principle, if the Schindler family, in struggling to save their daughter from being murdered, are raising money to pay for lawyers and other resources they need to defend their daughter's life in court, then they have a right to sell a list that they have used to raise funds in order to make money.
BEGALA: They have a right, but it's distasteful, isn't it?
JEFFREY: To pay for the struggle to save their daughter's life. Now, if that's the facts, it's not distasteful. It's a completely legitimate and moral act.
BEGALA: Really?
JEFFREY: And just like you or me, when we get a solicitation in the mail, we don't have to give people money if we don't want to.
BEGALA: That's going to -- we're going to have to take a quick break.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Bill, we'll have lots more to say on this in just a minute.
When we return, though, I'm going to ask our guests if they think Florida Governor Jeb Bush or perhaps his big brother in Washington should send in the troops.
And, right after the break, Wolf Blitzer has the story of one community hit especially hard by yesterday's earthquake of Indonesia.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Indonesia says the death toll in yesterday's earthquake could climb into the thousands. The island of Nias was hit the hardest. We'll have pictures.
Terri Schiavo now in her 12th day without food or water, why the reverend Jesse Jackson thinks the feeding tube should be reconnected.
And a CNN exclusive, the amazing story of how the U.S. military recovered a Black Hawk helicopter from hostile territory in Iraq.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BUCHANAN: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers have found one thing on which they agree. Michael Schiavo says he wants an autopsy of Terri after she dies to see how much brain damage she actually has. A lawyer for her parents says they will support that decision.
Still in the CROSSFIRE, former CROSSFIRE co-host Bill Press, along with good friend Terry Jeffrey, editor of "Human Events."
BEGALA: Terry, as I do every morning, I was listening to "Imus in the Morning," and I heard your good friend, mine, Bill's good friend and Bay's brother Patrick...
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: And good friend.
BEGALA: And good friend Patrick J. Buchanan on the radio calling for federal armed troops to come in and get this woman, despite the court's order. In fact, he said the governor of Florida should say, the court is wrong. Isn't executive action, armed executive action without color of law the essence of dictatorship?
JEFFREY: Well, there is color of law here and I think Pat's absolutely right. And I think the presence of Reverend Jesse Jackson in Florida today really goes to the heart of this.
BEGALA: He didn't bring a gun.
JEFFREY: This is a fundamental civil rights question here. The question is whether the right to life of Terri Schiavo is being denied by a court in Florida. It clearly is. They've ordered the deliberate killing of her.
Her equal protection of a right to life is -- it's the duty of the federal government to protect it under the 14th Amendment, and just as the federal government used its authority to defend blacks against Jim Crow and segregation when they were unlawfully carried out by the governments of Southern states.
BEGALA: Following a court order -- following -- well, look, that was in pursuant...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... court order, Terry. That's the exact opposite of this case.
JEFFREY: The federal government acted. The federal government acted. President Eisenhower acted in Little Rock.
BEGALA: Yes, to defend a court order.
JEFFREY: Governor Bush, Governor Jeb Bush should send his authorities in there as the chief executive of the state of Florida to defend that woman's God-given right to life, which he swore to defend.
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
JEFFREY: When he became governor of that state.
BUCHANAN: Bill, we know that Bill Clinton...
PRESS: Comparing this to the civil rights movement is a gross abortion of truth.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
JEFFREY: No.
BUCHANAN: It is not.
JEFFREY: No. They're not just saying -- they're not just saying that Terri Schiavo can't go to this public school.
BUCHANAN: Exactly right. This is a life.
JEFFREY: They're saying Terri Schiavo must die, an innocent person condemned to death.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Bill, this is a -- a governor and a president have the ability to move in troops and save a person's life. They have taken an oath also to the Constitution and they -- they have a commitment to try to save the life of Americans, especially innocent ones. Why should they not take that move? Why would that not be honorable?
PRESS: Let's just cut through here, OK? You know, life is more than breathing.
BUCHANAN: Oh, my golly.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: This woman, for 15 years -- OK, for eight years, her husband did everything he could, spent every money he had to try to rehabilitate that woman.
Since then, he's done what Tom DeLay did to his father after 27 days? Did Tom DeLay murder his father, Bay?
JEFFREY: Let me address...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No, I want an answer to that question. Did Tom DeLay murder his father? No. Tom DeLay...
BUCHANAN: He did not -- he was dying. The father was dying. He did not interfere with the process.
PRESS: Let me tell you something.
BEGALA: He refused to allow a live-saving aid.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: He did not interfere with the process. We are taking the food away.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No. You are wrong. He did, indeed. He did, indeed. It was only artificial means that kept him alive.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Jeffrey.
JEFFREY: Bill just crystallized it. What Bill just said is, he and people like him can decide that.
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
JEFFREY: Someone else's quality of life. And if they decide that person's quality of life has fallen below the threshold..
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
JEFFREY: ... they accept, then they can kill that person.
PRESS: What is good enough for his father is good enough for Terri Schiavo.
JEFFREY: So, you would kill Terri Schiavo?
PRESS: I am not killing anybody.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Excellent point, but we have to move on.
Next, on a lighter note, why the actor Richard Gere was dancing with the prime minister of Japan. We'll tell you when we come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: So, what did the prime minister of Japan say to the Hollywood star visiting Tokyo? It's no joke. The answer is, shall we dance? Richard Gere is in Japan to promote his movie "Shall We Dance?" a remake of a Japanese film.
Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi, said to look exactly like Gere, because they both have this long, wavy gray hair, took a spin with Gere for the cameras. When Gere's co-star Jennifer Lopez was in Japan, the media asked her if she saw a resemblance. She had to admit, she had no idea who the Japanese prime minister was.
BEGALA: Well, J.Lo, don't feel too bad. President Bush didn't know who the Japanese prime minister was either. So, you're in good company, Ms. Lopez.
BUCHANAN: You can't give it up, can you? You cannot give it up. Do you talk about Bush at the dinner table as well?
BEGALA: Well, we pray for him over our meals and every night as well.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Speaking of -- finally, this personal note, longtime CROSSFIRE guest, sometime CROSSFIRE co-host Reverend Jerry Falwell is in critical condition in a Lynchburg, Virginia, hospital, where he is battling a recurrence of viral pneumonia.
On behalf of all of us here at CROSSFIRE, Dr. Falwell, get well soon and God bless. We're praying for you, Reverend, from the left and from the right. Get well soon.
And from the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
BUCHANAN: And from the right, I'm Bay Buchanan. Join us again for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" up next.
(APPLAUSE)
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Aired March 29, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala; on the right, Bay Buchanan.
In the CROSSFIRE: Terri Schiavo's parents continue to reach out, trying to find help for their daughter.
REV. JESSE JACKSON, FOUNDER, RAINBOW/PUSH COALITION: Because this is one of the profound moral, ethical issues of our time, the saving of Terri's life. And today, we -- we pray for a miracle.
ANNOUNCER: A call goes out to the Reverend Jesse Jackson, as Schiavo enters her 12th day without food and water.
MARY SCHINDLER, MOTHER OF TERRI SCHIAVO: I wanted the Reverend Jackson here today for moral support, because he has spoke out for Terri before on television. And I just feel good with him here.
ANNOUNCER: Reaching out to the people who support Terri Schiavo's parents, the Schindlers agree to sell a list of financial supporters to a conservative direct mailing company. Is anyone trying to profit from this tragedy?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Live from the George Washington University, Paul Begala and Bay Buchanan.
(APPLAUSE)
BAY BUCHANAN, GUEST CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
Terri Schiavo continues to cling to life in a Florida hospice, while her parents keep looking for ways to save their child. Today, Reverend Jesse Jackson joined them in Pinellas Park. He wasn't allowed to see Terri, but he says he worked the phones, urging Florida lawmakers to find a creative solution that would help save the dying woman.
PAUL BEGALA, CO-HOST: In another development in this tragic story, right-wing pressure groups are a already poised to make a buck on Ms. Schiavo's suffering. It has been reported that conservative direct mailers have gotten their hands on a list of people who contributed money to help the Schindlers, which is the issue on which we will begin the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert."
As we mentioned a moment ago, as Terri Schiavo slowly shuffles off this mortal coil, right-wing vultures are already cashing in on her suffering. John Schwartz and David Kirkpatrick of "The New York Times" report today that a right-wing direct marketing firm has received permission from Ms. Schiavo's parents to sell the list of donors to Ms. Schiavo's cause.
Even the parents' spokeswoman, Pamela Hennessy, who, by the way, is unpaid, is disgusting by this pre-death grave robbing, telling "The Times" -- quote -- "It is possibly the most distasteful thing I have ever seen. Everybody is making a buck off of her."
Well, she's got a good point. And to be fair, we in the media are certainly making money from the heightened ratings that Ms. Schiavo's tragedy brings. But selling the name of her supporters to the highest bidder, that's a different order of ghoulish greed altogether, a combination of sanctimony and avarice that is the perfect expression of right-wing Republicanism at the dawn of the 21st century.
BUCHANAN: Paul, I have to ask you, who is selling this list? It's certainly not Republicans. They don't have the list. Is this list being sold, so that the people who own it can raise money for the legal bills?
BEGALA: It's being sold to whoever wants to pay for it to sell whatever it is that they want. I don't know.
BUCHANAN: So...
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: You would agree...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Maybe whiskey. It is ghoulish. It is greedy. It is disgusting and beneath contempt.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: ... liberals.
BUCHANAN: I think you should not use the list for using her name at all, but if you're helping her parents pay those legal bills, all the more power to them.
Standing in the Rose Garden today, President Bush spoke of a continuing progress in Iraq. The president continues to be optimistic about move towards democracy taking place there, noting that Iraqis are taking -- quote -- "big steps on a long journey" -- unquote.
While many continue to focus only on insurgents or on other problems in Iraq, there are those on the ground who say so much good is happening and too many critics are ignoring the successes. Iraq's parliament, for instance, held its second meeting today. And while the meeting was marked by disagreements, that is to simply be expected in the political process. And all this is testimony to the eight million Iraqis who risked their lives to vote.
Then, there is the Iraqi military, anxious to move to the front lines, we hear. They have asked that the Americans continue to train them, so the American troops will be behind them, goal, by the year's end. Now, that progress would even be applauded by my friend Paul here, I suspect.
BEGALA: If there were, indeed, progress. There is a little sometimes. The vote seemed to be a good thing back in January. Here it is nearly April and they still haven't even constituted a government. Donald Rumsfeld today...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: ... speaking not long after the president...
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: ... called into question the confidence and ethics of these very Iraqi politicians that President Bush was bragging on. I think this is one where Rumsfeld is probably closer to the truth than Mr. Bush.
BUCHANAN: Hey, hey, we can't tell them to move faster than they're moving. We can push them as best we can. But, dang it, but they're having parliamentary meetings and there's debate. Is that interesting? Not something they had under...
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: I cannot wait until we get a chance -- I can't wait until we get a chance to debate that on this broadcast.
Well, Republicans are running from Tom DeLay like the devil runs from holy water.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Even the right wing kooks at "The Wall Street Journal"'s editorial page have opined that DeLay's junkets paid by gambling interests and corrupt lobbyists have given him what "The Journal" calls an odor. House Speaker Dennis Hastert is now reportedly trying to distance himself from the malodorous Mr. DeLay, but it was Hastert who called members back for a special circus over Terri Schiavo.
It was Hastert who personally presided over that circus for three hours. And President Bush's aides are now telling the media that the president didn't really want to fly back to D.C. to sign Mr. DeLay's bill. Right, guys. What, was he Kidnapped, forcibly dragged from his ranch on to Air Force One?
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Look, the truth is, the most powerful men in the Republican Party are, in fact, dominated by the most corrupt man in the Republican Party, Tom DeLay.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: You know, Paul, your distaste for Tom DeLay really has thrown you off, I believe.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: You don't think clearly. Come on. He should be held accountable, if there is any evidence of wrongdoing. We believe all politicians should be held accountable. And if you all would have taken, I think would be less hypocritical if you had held a president accountable for his actions. But you didn't seem too interested...
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Hey, this was "The Wall Street Journal" editorial page, who even defended Ken Starr, the most unethical prosecutor I've ever seen.
(BELL RINGING)
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: ... going after a Democrat.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: They finally found someone who is too unethical for "The Wall Street Journal," and it happens to be Tom DeLay.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: That's a stunning thing.
BUCHANAN: If you had a feeling that America's colleges and universities were full of left-wing liberal professors indoctrinating our youth, you were right. There's proof now.
The new study shows that 72 percent -- that's right, 72 percent -- of university faculty members call themselves liberals. Obviously, several of them are lying.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Only 15 percent say they're conservatives. They're in the business school, I think.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: One of the study's authors suggests that it could be possible discrimination in hiring and promoting in -- promoting conservative faculty members. Possible, possible discrimination? Oh, come on. We've known it's been there for years. Conservatives have been saying just this. Liberals have embedded themselves in those ivory towers decades ago and have lost any interest in offering students a point of view different from their own.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: As a result, there is now a backlash and there are campuses in which conservative students are demanding diversity of thought. Imagine. Imagine. Could this be the end of political correctness and a return to intellectual honesty on campuses? One could only be hopeful.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Well, so you want to replace liberal political correctness with conservative political correctness.
BUCHANAN: No. I want both.
BEGALA: It is true that P.C. is the enemy of real liberalism, whether it's the right or the left.
(BELL RINGING)
BEGALA: By the way, liberal means broad-minded, open-minded, wanting to hear both sides. I hope all professors are liberal in that sense.
(LAUGHTER)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Don't count on it.
BEGALA: Well, as Terri Schiavo nears death, the fight over her legacy keeps going. We will debate the political struggle being waged over this woman's life, next on CROSSFIRE.
ANNOUNCER: Join Carville, Begala and Novak in the CROSSFIRE. For free tickets to CROSSFIRE at the George Washington University, call 202-994-8CNN or visit our Web site. Now you can step into the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE and the latest issues surrounding Terri Schiavo.
Reverend Jesse Jackson was in Florida today to meet with the Schindler family. He said what is happening to Terri is, in his words, an injustice. Now, conservatives routinely denounce Reverend Jackson as a publicity hound. But, suddenly, today, he's their hero. Today in the CROSSFIRE to discuss this and other developments in a sad story, Terry Jeffrey, editor of "Human Events," and Democratic strategist and longtime CROSSFIRE co-host, my friend Bill Press.
Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
(APPLAUSE)
BILL PRESS, BILLPRESS.COM: Thank you, Paul. Good to be here.
BEGALA: Always good to have you.
BUCHANAN: Welcome.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: I'm going to start with you, Bill.
Jesse Jackson, as you just heard went down to Florida to help the parents of Terri Schiavo. Here's one of his comments that he made.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: Without water or food, without even ice cubes for her lips for 12 days, she is still alive. That should send a message to all of us that, while law is important, law must be tempered with mercy to have justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BUCHANAN: Bill, would you not agree that Reverend Jackson here has made an interesting point, in the fact that something is wrong when a dying woman's parents cannot give her ice chips to comfort her and her priest cannot give her communion, which is what we hear today?
PRESS: Well, let me ask you, did you agree with Reverend Jackson over the weekend when he compared Michael Jackson to Nelson Mandela?
BUCHANAN: I don't think that's what the discussion is today. I think we're talking about an issue of Terri.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: Well, I think there's some points here.
BUCHANAN: I disagree with my brother on occasion, but when I do agree with him, and then I support him and I make my case. Can you not -- how can you defend the killing of this woman, not even allowing the parents to give her ice chips?
PRESS: It is not killing, No. 1.
BUCHANAN: Oh, yes, it is. She is not dying.
PRESS: It is not killing. You may say it. It is not killing. It is letting this poor woman die with dignity and die in peace. I disagree with Jesse Jackson.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: But you think her parents should give her ice cubes?
PRESS: I disagree with Jesse Jackson when he compares Michael Jackson to Nelson Mandela. And I disagree with Jesse Jackson in what he said today. He should butt out of this, the same way ethically challenged politicians like Tom DeLay ought to butt out of it.
(APPLAUSE)
BEGALA: Now, Terry, let me show you a photograph here. This is Wanda Hudson. Let me introduce you to Wanda Hudson.
Wanda Hudson is a fellow Texan. She's from Houston, which is my home town, not far from my home town. She was not on the cover of "Current Events magazine. She hasn't been on CNN. She's not a cause celebre on the right. Her 6-month-old son was killed. We were just debating whether or not it's killing to remove the feeding tube. Her boy was killed in Texas at a hospital against her wishes.
He was fully -- his brain was fully functioning. And, yet, because of a law George W. Bush signed into law in my state of Texas, the hospital was allowed to override the wishes of Wanda Hudson and kill Wanda Hudson's son because they believed that he was not going it be able to survive. Why haven't you made a cause out of that? Could it be -- well, just tell me why. I don't want to suggest why.
TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, "HUMAN EVENTS": I will tell you exactly why, Paul. This is the first time I have heard of this case.
BEGALA: Why is that?
JEFFREY: Why is it?
BEGALA: It is on the front page of "The New York Times." I haven't seen it in any of the right-wing publications.
JEFFREY: Well, look, let me say, I'm glad you apprised me of it. And let me tell you, given, if the facts as you have stated them are true, that a hospital took an act to deliberately kill that woman's son...
BEGALA: Pursuant to a law that George W. Bush signed for them so that they could save money, the most avaricious act imaginable.
JEFFREY: Now, do you want me to answer my question?
BEGALA: Yes. I'm dying to hear your answer.
JEFFREY: If a hospital in Texas took a deliberate act intended to kill that woman's son, the people who took that act are murderers. What they did was commit murder.
(CROSSTALK) BEGALA: ... who empowered them to do it, who signed that law, George W. Bush.
JEFFREY: And if George Bush signed a law that empowered hospitals to murder children, he's culpable for it. The people who are enforcing the law in Texas are now culpable for it. The law ought to be changed.
In fact, there's a key principle here. And it was -- it is a deliberate act to kill Terri Schiavo. You can never deliberately take the life of an innocent person. Starving Terri Schiavo to death in Florida today is no different than think a newborn baby from the hospital, locking them in a room and denying that baby food and water.
BEGALA: Or pulling the plug on son Hudson.
(APPLAUSE)
JEFFREY: It is -- it is cold-blooded murder.
BUCHANAN: All right, Bill, go ahead.
PRESS: I just want to make a point.
The point here, also, Paul, is the hypocrisy of George W. Bush , No. 1, who signed 154 death warrants when he was in Texas, not all of whom were guilty people, No. 2, who signed this law saying, it's up to the doctors, not up to the families. The doctors can overrule the family and the hospital ethics committee can overrule the family in every single case.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
PRESS: And then he runs back in his pajamas to sign a law for Terri Schiavo because Jerry Falwell told him to.
BUCHANAN: Now, let's get -- let's get back to this, Bill.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: You -- you -- you seem to have no problems with the courts saying that her parents cannot -- or the government saying her parents cannot comfort their dying daughter. You have no problems with the courts saying that they cannot care for her and -- at all.
But -- but you have a problem with somebody who believes that this person should be allowed to live and that the courts are wrong, coming in and interfering and saying, no, the courts are wrong; I'm going to save the life of this woman?
PRESS: Pardon me.
A fact here, OK? I did not push the federal courts into the Terri Schiavo case. It was Bill Frist, Tom DeLay and George W. Bush who passed emergency legislation expanding the reach of the federal government, expanding Big Brother, and asking the federal courts to go into this case, No. 1.
(APPLAUSE)
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No. 2, let me ask -- I want to answer your question.
BUCHANAN: Yes. I would love that.
PRESS: Here's the bottom line for me, OK? I think this is one of the most personal and painful decisions any of us will have to make. I've been in a situation like this. And you know who I want in that hospital room? I want my family. I want my doctor. I want my priest or my minister. I don't want any grandstanding politician, Democrat or Republican. That's the bottom line.
(APPLAUSE)
JEFFREY: Well, by the way, Bill, if -- if that priest is a Catholic priest, he would have to tell the doctor that was trying to kill you that he is committing an immoral act of euthanasia that is specifically condemned by the Catholic Church. Not only in general, but in the specific case of Terri Schiavo, they have condemned this act.
PRESS: Well...
JEFFREY: Now, let me ask you...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Actually, I don't want to get into Catholic theology here.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me talk about something a little more...
PRESS: Address that to me, because I'm a Catholic. I want to respond to that, too.
JEFFREY: Right. Right.
PRESS: You know, the pope can be wrong. The pope...
(CROSSTALK)
JEFFREY: But this is not the pope.
PRESS: Now, Terry, Terry, it's my turn.
JEFFREY: This is not the pope.
BUCHANAN: So can a judge. JEFFREY: This is the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. It's not the pope.
PRESS: Terry, I heard your point. This is my -- OK? The pope can be wrong. The pope says the death penalty is evil. Yet, Catholic Scalia is for it. Catholic Pat Buchanan is for it.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: The pope says birth control...
JEFFREY: What you just said is not factually true.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: ... standing there. I was in Saint Louis and he said it was part of the culture of death. Let's move on.
JEFFREY: Look, if people want to discuss what the pope said about the death penalty, they ought read his encyclical "Evangelium Vitae." They ought to understand it and they ought not to distort it, as you just did.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Let me ask you about other big development today.
PRESS: Come on, Terry. The Catholic bishops just launched a campaign to get rid of the death penalty.
JEFFREY: They did not say it was intrinsically evil. That is not the position of the Catholic Church.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Believe me, I can't wait to debate the death penalty and the hypocrisy of the right on that issue.
But let me talk about a different hypocrisy on the right. And that is the selling off of the list of donors, good-hearted people. Really, I disagree with them on this or that, but they are good- hearted people who are sending their money to try to help this woman and her mom and dad with their legal and medical bills.
And so, what are right-wing pressure groups doing? They're selling that list to make a buck. Here's the family spokeswoman, Pamela Hennessy, who, by the way, is not being paid and not making a nickel, volunteering her services in the cause that you support. Ms. Hennessy tells "The New York Times: "It is possibly the most distasteful thing I've ever seen. Everybody is trying to make a buck off of Terri Schiavo."
Isn't that disgusting? Can't you agree with that?
JEFFREY: First of all, well, let me tell you what I know in principle, because, again this is -- I don't know the specific facts of this case.
But, in principle, if the Schindler family, in struggling to save their daughter from being murdered, are raising money to pay for lawyers and other resources they need to defend their daughter's life in court, then they have a right to sell a list that they have used to raise funds in order to make money.
BEGALA: They have a right, but it's distasteful, isn't it?
JEFFREY: To pay for the struggle to save their daughter's life. Now, if that's the facts, it's not distasteful. It's a completely legitimate and moral act.
BEGALA: Really?
JEFFREY: And just like you or me, when we get a solicitation in the mail, we don't have to give people money if we don't want to.
BEGALA: That's going to -- we're going to have to take a quick break.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Bill, we'll have lots more to say on this in just a minute.
When we return, though, I'm going to ask our guests if they think Florida Governor Jeb Bush or perhaps his big brother in Washington should send in the troops.
And, right after the break, Wolf Blitzer has the story of one community hit especially hard by yesterday's earthquake of Indonesia.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington.
Coming up at the top of the hour, Indonesia says the death toll in yesterday's earthquake could climb into the thousands. The island of Nias was hit the hardest. We'll have pictures.
Terri Schiavo now in her 12th day without food or water, why the reverend Jesse Jackson thinks the feeding tube should be reconnected.
And a CNN exclusive, the amazing story of how the U.S. military recovered a Black Hawk helicopter from hostile territory in Iraq.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS."
Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BUCHANAN: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers have found one thing on which they agree. Michael Schiavo says he wants an autopsy of Terri after she dies to see how much brain damage she actually has. A lawyer for her parents says they will support that decision.
Still in the CROSSFIRE, former CROSSFIRE co-host Bill Press, along with good friend Terry Jeffrey, editor of "Human Events."
BEGALA: Terry, as I do every morning, I was listening to "Imus in the Morning," and I heard your good friend, mine, Bill's good friend and Bay's brother Patrick...
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: And good friend.
BEGALA: And good friend Patrick J. Buchanan on the radio calling for federal armed troops to come in and get this woman, despite the court's order. In fact, he said the governor of Florida should say, the court is wrong. Isn't executive action, armed executive action without color of law the essence of dictatorship?
JEFFREY: Well, there is color of law here and I think Pat's absolutely right. And I think the presence of Reverend Jesse Jackson in Florida today really goes to the heart of this.
BEGALA: He didn't bring a gun.
JEFFREY: This is a fundamental civil rights question here. The question is whether the right to life of Terri Schiavo is being denied by a court in Florida. It clearly is. They've ordered the deliberate killing of her.
Her equal protection of a right to life is -- it's the duty of the federal government to protect it under the 14th Amendment, and just as the federal government used its authority to defend blacks against Jim Crow and segregation when they were unlawfully carried out by the governments of Southern states.
BEGALA: Following a court order -- following -- well, look, that was in pursuant...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: ... court order, Terry. That's the exact opposite of this case.
JEFFREY: The federal government acted. The federal government acted. President Eisenhower acted in Little Rock.
BEGALA: Yes, to defend a court order.
JEFFREY: Governor Bush, Governor Jeb Bush should send his authorities in there as the chief executive of the state of Florida to defend that woman's God-given right to life, which he swore to defend.
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
JEFFREY: When he became governor of that state.
BUCHANAN: Bill, we know that Bill Clinton...
PRESS: Comparing this to the civil rights movement is a gross abortion of truth.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
JEFFREY: No.
BUCHANAN: It is not.
JEFFREY: No. They're not just saying -- they're not just saying that Terri Schiavo can't go to this public school.
BUCHANAN: Exactly right. This is a life.
JEFFREY: They're saying Terri Schiavo must die, an innocent person condemned to death.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: Bill, this is a -- a governor and a president have the ability to move in troops and save a person's life. They have taken an oath also to the Constitution and they -- they have a commitment to try to save the life of Americans, especially innocent ones. Why should they not take that move? Why would that not be honorable?
PRESS: Let's just cut through here, OK? You know, life is more than breathing.
BUCHANAN: Oh, my golly.
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: This woman, for 15 years -- OK, for eight years, her husband did everything he could, spent every money he had to try to rehabilitate that woman.
Since then, he's done what Tom DeLay did to his father after 27 days? Did Tom DeLay murder his father, Bay?
JEFFREY: Let me address...
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No, I want an answer to that question. Did Tom DeLay murder his father? No. Tom DeLay...
BUCHANAN: He did not -- he was dying. The father was dying. He did not interfere with the process.
PRESS: Let me tell you something.
BEGALA: He refused to allow a live-saving aid.
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: He did not interfere with the process. We are taking the food away.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: No. You are wrong. He did, indeed. He did, indeed. It was only artificial means that kept him alive.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Jeffrey.
JEFFREY: Bill just crystallized it. What Bill just said is, he and people like him can decide that.
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
JEFFREY: Someone else's quality of life. And if they decide that person's quality of life has fallen below the threshold..
BUCHANAN: Exactly.
JEFFREY: ... they accept, then they can kill that person.
PRESS: What is good enough for his father is good enough for Terri Schiavo.
JEFFREY: So, you would kill Terri Schiavo?
PRESS: I am not killing anybody.
(CROSSTALK)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: Excellent point, but we have to move on.
Next, on a lighter note, why the actor Richard Gere was dancing with the prime minister of Japan. We'll tell you when we come back. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(APPLAUSE)
BUCHANAN: So, what did the prime minister of Japan say to the Hollywood star visiting Tokyo? It's no joke. The answer is, shall we dance? Richard Gere is in Japan to promote his movie "Shall We Dance?" a remake of a Japanese film.
Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi, said to look exactly like Gere, because they both have this long, wavy gray hair, took a spin with Gere for the cameras. When Gere's co-star Jennifer Lopez was in Japan, the media asked her if she saw a resemblance. She had to admit, she had no idea who the Japanese prime minister was.
BEGALA: Well, J.Lo, don't feel too bad. President Bush didn't know who the Japanese prime minister was either. So, you're in good company, Ms. Lopez.
BUCHANAN: You can't give it up, can you? You cannot give it up. Do you talk about Bush at the dinner table as well?
BEGALA: Well, we pray for him over our meals and every night as well.
(LAUGHTER)
BEGALA: Speaking of -- finally, this personal note, longtime CROSSFIRE guest, sometime CROSSFIRE co-host Reverend Jerry Falwell is in critical condition in a Lynchburg, Virginia, hospital, where he is battling a recurrence of viral pneumonia.
On behalf of all of us here at CROSSFIRE, Dr. Falwell, get well soon and God bless. We're praying for you, Reverend, from the left and from the right. Get well soon.
And from the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
BUCHANAN: And from the right, I'm Bay Buchanan. Join us again for another edition of CROSSFIRE.
"WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" up next.
(APPLAUSE)
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