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CNN Crossfire
Social Security Reform; Senate Treatment of Judicial Nominees
Aired April 28, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala. On the right, Joe Watkins.
In the CROSSFIRE, President Bush, hosting a rare news conference in primetime tonight. At the top of his agenda, energy issues and his proposal to reform Social Security by offering private accounts.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And now's the time for the Congress to set aside political differences and come to the table in good faith to solve this problem.
ANNOUNCER: So far the president is having a hard time convincing Democrats.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, what I'm hoping the president tonight will say about Social Security and his privatization plan, is uncle.
ANNOUNCER: Other issues likely to come up? The stalled nomination of John Bolton for U.N. ambassador, the deadlock over judicial nominees in the Senate and the ethics problems of GOP leader Tom DeLay. Will the president's answers win support?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
Live from the George Washington University Paula Begala and Joe Watkins.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAUL BEGALA, CROSSFIRE CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
For only the fourth time in his presidency, George W. Bush goes prime time with the press. And we'll be covering it big time.
Mr. Bush's Social Security privatization plan is on the ropes. His nominee for the United Nation is in trouble. His poll numbers are at an all-time low. And his House Republican leader Tom DeLay is in more hot water than Hugh Hefner at a Jacuzzi party. So, can Mr. Bush regain the initiative tonight?
JOE WATKINS, CROSSFIRE CO-HOST: Hold on. The news conference comes at the end of a 60-day, 60-city cross country blitz to sell the president's Social Security privatization plan. It's the perfect time for the president to seal the deal with the American public.
Now the best little political briefing in television. Our CROSSFIRE political alert. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is offering a compromise to end the bottleneck over confirmation of judicial nominees. Frist's plan gives Democrats 100 hours to debate future Supreme Court nominees and each of President Bush's appellate court choices. In exchange, Democrats will give up their filibuster threat and allow a confirmation vote on each of the nominees. Also, Democrats will retain the right to filibuster lower court nominees.
It's time for Senate Democrats to get off the dime and accept Frist's plan. It's time for the Senate to give these nominees the up or down vote they deserve.
BEGALA: Well, it's time for Bill Frist to deal with reality. The reality is the Senate rules for 200 and some years say that 60 votes were all that were required to take up the matter. And I think that's good, because it forces bipartisanship.
The Republicans want to do away with the one rule in Washington that makes the two parties come together. Harry Reid offered a real compromise. He just said, we'll approve three out of those seven. And they said, no. It was my way or the highway.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Preservation for all other legislative filibusters. He just wants to provide this reform for the judicial filibusters.
BEGALA: They can't earn the votes. 206 other judges have earned 60 votes. They passed through, because they were seen as qualified and competent by the Senate. If these seven right-wing millionaire lawyers can't earn the 60 votes, they ought not be on the federal bench.
WATKINS: They deserve an up or down vote.
BEGALA: They've had it.
Well anyway, in the fight over judges, some conservatives accuse Democrats of religious bigotry. Of course, there's no evidence of religious prejudice from the left on the issue. But there is some evidence of religious prejudice on the right.
We Catholics well remember George W. Bush's infamous visit to Bob Jones University where he saluted bigots who called Pope John Paul II the antichrist and called Catholicism a cult.
Well, move over Bob Jones, meet Pastor Ted. Ted Haggard is the leader of the National Association of Evangelicals. 45,000 churches and 30 million believers. In the current issue of "Harpers" magazine, he attacks Catholics saying they, quote, "constantly look back" unquote. He says Catholics quote "don't tend to create our greatest entrepreneurs, inventors, research and development" unquote. Haggard says he says quote, "a little clash of civilizations" unquote between Catholics and Protestant evangelicals.
And remember that presidential candidate who went to Bob Jones University five years ago? Well, he or his top White House aides talked to Pastor Ted every Monday.
WATKINS: Well, you know, I'm a Christian and I'm an evangelical.
BEGALA: Do you believe that? Do you believe Catholics are stupid and backward looking.
WATKINS: No, Catholics are our brothers man.
BEGALA: Why is the president talking to a bigot like that every Monday?
WATKINS: The president talks to...
BEGALA: He ought to be talking to you every Monday, not this bigot.
WATKINS: I don't think he's a bigot. I think...
BEGALA: He's attacking Catholics. That's bigotry.
WATKINS: He's made some comments, of course. But I think that sees Catholics are his brothers.
BEGALA: No, he doesn't. Read the "Harpers." Everybody should read the current issue of "Harpers" magazine. It's astonishing.
WATKINS: It's Saddam Hussein's birthday, but he has little to celebrate. What a difference two years can make. While the ousted Iraqi dictator sits in a U.S.-run jail, the new Iraqi National Assembly is turning the page and going about the business of creating a Democratic society.
Today the assembly approved a final list of cabinet members for the transitional government. True, their work isn't totally finish because some of the appointees are only temporary, but the fact remains that three months after national historic elections, a new Iraqi government is being created that's Democratic and reflects the various ethnic, religious and political factions in Iraq.
Meanwhile, Saddam isn't likely to get many birthday presents this year.
BEGALA: Well, no. But someone who got the president here was Ibrahim al Jaafari. First off, it is a good thing their standing up a government. But look at who they are putting in charge. Ibrahim al Jaafari is the new prime minister selected today. He comes from the Dawa Party which was linked to the terrorist bombing to the American embassy in Kuwait. He lived in Iran for nine years where he studied democracy under the Ayatollah Khomeini. He now wants to bring Shariah, fundamentalist Islamic law to Iraq to control women's lives. And he won't shake hands with women. And for this 1500 of our boys died? No.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: It's all about democracy. And giving the Iraqi people the right to choose their own leadership.
BEGALA: The right to choose a theocratic, misogynistic nut at the blood of Americans? No.
WATKINS: They have all the religious factions involved. It's a good thing, a very good thing.
BEGALA: Hopefully the president will talk about this tonight.
Well, Mary Cheney, the openly gay daughter of our vice president is writing a memoir. I for one cannot wait to read it.
But if you live in Alabama, you may not be ale to. You see, State Representative Gerald Allen has introduced legislation to ban books by gay authors and books and plays with gay characters from Alabama schools. Quote, "I guess we dig a big hole and dump them in there and bury them" unquote he told the Birmingham News. Speaking, one hopes, of the books, not the gays themselves.
And as if you didn't know, 99 percent of Alabama Republicans, 99 percent, voted for President Bush. He could stop this censorship in a New York minute, but he hasn't had the guts to defend Mary Cheney or Tennessee Williams or Truman Capote. And I wish he would. Our president is so cowed by the cook right you could almost hear him moo.
WATKINS: This president is big enough to have people who disagree with him around him. And that's a good thing. I think that's a very good -- you know, this is a big party. It's a party that can include and does include all people.
BEGALA: Bigots. Anti-Catholic bigots, anti-Gay bigots.
WATKINS: This is America where people can say and believe what they want. But the truth of the matter is if the Republican Party...
BEGALA: He wants to ban books by gays. Do you think Mary Cheney's book should be outlawed in Alabama?
WATKINS: Well, the truth of the matter of is that Mary Cheney is a good American.
BEGALA: Yes.
WATKINS: And I look forward to reading her book like everybody else.
BEGALA: I can't wait, but don't try to read it in Alabama.
WATKINS: Well, let's wait and see what happens in Alabama with regards to this. But to try to say that all...
BEGALA: Mr. Bush is the leader of his party, he should call on them stop trying to censor Americans like Mary Cheney.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Well at the end of the day, this president is for a great America, for an open America.
BEGALA: He ought to say that tonight and take these bigots on in Alabama.
Anyway, President Bush reportedly does not like the press very much, nor does he like staying up late. But tonight, he's making exception holding a rare primetime news conference. Next we will debate what our president ought to say to the people he works for later tonight.
And then, why were Spiderman and Captain America at the Pentagon today? We will tell you why later in the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATKINS: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. The White House is calling it a crucial period in the national debate over Social Security. The president plans to seize the moment in a prime time news conference tonight. The White House says the president will open with a 10-to-12 minute statement and go into more specifics about his plan to create private investment accounts for younger workers. Of course, this being Washington, other subjects are likely to come up. In the CROSSFIRE today, two people that know the ways of Washington: Democratic strategist Chris Lapetina, and Bill McCollum, former Republican congressman from Florida.
Welcome to the CROSSFIRE, men.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Bill, if I may start with you, Joe said you had a successful, distinguished career in the United States Congress and House of Representatives. It seems to me, politicians, like the president, measure their political capital in terms of public support. That's the currency of democracy, and the president, to his credit, has tried to sell his plan to privatize Social Security -- 600 town hall meetings by the president, his cabinet and staff, or members of Congress - 600, in just four months.
And, let me show you the results. A couple of polls from the ABC/"Washington Post" service. Do you approve or disprove of the president's handling of Social Security? Only 31 percent approve; 64, essentially two-thirds of Americans disapprove of his handling of Social Security. When they asked them which party would do a better job, 50 percent say Democrats -- the majority of Americans, Democrats -- and only 32 percent say President Bush. This is an old-fashioned booty-whipping, isn't it?
BILL MCCOLLUM (R), FMR U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, right now, what we have is people finally realizing there's a problem with Social Security, but not being sure what they want to do about it, as they never are.
BEGALA: They seem sure by the polls. Don't let Mr. Bush mess with Social Security is what that says. MCCOLLUM: What we have is a lot of people advertising, as you know -- independent advertising going on out there, every day, trying to scare seniors, and interesting enough, it's seniors who are the problem here.
The president wants personal accounts. He wants to allow individuals to be able to set aside a small portion of their Social Security so that the younger generation can grow this, instead of having to depend on what won't be there in the future if we don't make the changes, and I think he's made a good point about it.
But, the question is, what will he do? he doesn't have a specific plan that's actually out on the table. I think, next, what's going to happen, in my opinion, is he's going to see the Senate and urge the Senate to take action that probably will occur without those personal savings accounts. Then, once you get that down the pike, I think the House will probably put them in and we'll see what happens.
BEGALA: Interesting.
WATKINS: You know, Chris, Democrats have really rallied against the president's proposal for private -- voluntary, I should say -- private accounts. Now, at the same time, they haven't really offered a proposal of their own, have they?
XX: Well, as you know, the Democrats don't have the White House. I think it's incumbent upon the president.
WATKINS: Well, no, but still -- they don't have the White House, but still, you would think that some members of the House or the Senate would come forward and say, well, here's the program we want to...
XX: Well, first of all, they do, and if you talk to most members -- Democratic members -- of Congress, they'll say, we do have a plan. Let's put the money from the tax cut -- the massive Bush tax cut -- back into Social Security. We'll be solvent for the next -- you know, decades to come.
But, you said something very interesting. You said there's a debate going on about Social Security, and there is, and the debate's between the Republican members of the Congress and the president. The president has put forth ideas that his own -- members of his own party -- within the Congress disagree with. That's his problem.
WATKINS: The whole idea is to open the conversation, and that's what the president has done.
BEGALA: But he opened it at the State of the Union address, where he really commanded the nation's attention. He made his case as strongly as he could. He's traveled the country. He does have the bully pulpit. You really don't think Americans are stupid, do you, Bill? They've heard the case and they rejected it.
MCCOLLUM: Let me tell you what the big problem is in this. We could do what we did back in the 1980s when I was in Congress and Reagan was president, if we didn't have your party, the Democrats, wanting to play politics.
BEGALA: Democrats -- hold on one second -- let's go back to history. President Reagan and Tip O'Neill, the speaker of the house...
MCCOLLUM: Exactly.
BEGALA: ...had a commission to study Social Security. There was one rule on that commission: no privatization.
MCCOLLUM: Well...
BEGALA: That was the one thing...
MCCOLLUM: Let me tell you -- let me tell you...
BEGALA: ...that was off the table for Ronald Reagan. It was. I remember it.
MCCOLLUM: Let me tell you the one rule was. The one rule was that Alan Greenspan went back to report to Ronald Reagan every day and Claude Pepper went back to report to Tip O'Neill, and they had an understanding before they started it that they were going to use this as cover to come up with something (INAUDIBLE).
BEGALA: But the private accounts was off the table.
MCCOLLUM: The -- President Reagan agreed to that...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That was the first rule.
MCCOLLUM: That wasn't a predisposition.
BEGALA: It was. It was a precondition to meeting.
MCCOLLUM: Well, the bottom line is that there's no agreement that can come about to do this, this time. I've encouraged it. Greenspan's encouraged it. A lot of people have, but the bottom line is, most Republicans tell me over and over again that they don't believe that, at the end of the day, Democrats would really agree, in any of those things, not just to the private accounts, but anything else that way.
So, I think you've got to go through the process I said. I think you're going to see the Senate, at some point, take up that -- maybe it's after some judges and a few fights after that -- but they are going to take up a Social Security bill, and they aren't going to put private accounts, probably, in it, over there, and they're going to pass something that, maybe I'll agree with, maybe I wouldn't, but it will then get us along the road and the House will pass something and it will be different. It'll be (INAUDIBLE) the personal accounts in it.
LAPETINA: But, Congressman, why would the Republicans and Congress agree to something that's been -- agree to do a bill that eliminates the president's cornerstone of fixing what he calls the Social Security crisis, which is these private accounts?
MCCOLLUM: I didn't say the Republicans wouldn't necessarily, but in the Senate, that's what it would take. It would take a cross majority. It would take pushing a bill out, letting it work its will. If the votes aren't there, and I don't think they are for the personal accounts in the Senate, and they probably aren't going to be, then something would come out. I don't know what it would be, but it would probably be a very healthy debate. We need to have the debate. Move it along, because Social Security is in trouble. That's one thing we will agree on.
BEGALA: Well, I certainly don't agree at all. But -- but, let me move on to the next topic.
This is certain, I think, to come up -- the man the president will turn to the House to try to pass his Social Security privatization plan, Tom DeLay, congressman from Sugarland, Texas, my hometown, the House Republican leader, embroiled in terrible ethics controversies right now. The president, God bless him -- I loved seeing this -- hugged him and kissed him, and did whatever. It was really a -- in not-at-all gay way -- but it was very bonding, male, sort of thing.
MCCOLLUM: I'm glad it wasn't.
BEGALA: This week -- but I want to remind you, also, what the president said when he was the governor of Texas, how close he is to Tom DeLay, the least ethical man in Congress. This is from the "Austin-American Statesman," back in 1995 when George W. Bush had just become my governor. Governor bush said representative dick army and tom delay of houston the house majority whip, quote, think the way I think. There's a pretty good texas flavor in the house leadership. He really is joined at the hip with tom delay.
I think the thing I want to say most about this is it's a good thing what happened yesterday, the house ethics committee will now work its way as it should do on all of the ethics matter. We'll all learn together. An awful lot of politics being played with delay. Did he make some mistakes. Probably, I don't think any of us know the degree to which they are there. He need as day in court, so to speak. He will get it. We'll all see how it works out. It could be a big political issue next year. It could blow over.
Do you think he's getting a fair shake here? this is kind of a can of worm opening up the ethics debate. Do you think he's getting a fair shake?
Certainly as fair a shake as jim wright did when he was speaker.
Is this about sour grapes.
Used the same rules to bring down james wright. Also the same shake that newt gingrich got when he was speaker and the house ethics committee looked at some of the things did he. The interesting thing which I think Americans are picking up on is that because the Republicans could, they try to change the rules that had worked so well in the past to bring down a Democratic speaker, as well, and now tom delay is crying these crocodile tears because the same rules that Republicans used are being used against him. He failed to change them which is really what he wanted to do.
Of course we are all finding out, too, a lot of Democrats violated many of the same things he's being criticized for. I think what you're going to see a real airing --
Can you name any?
I understand hoyer had some technical violations.
Nancy pelosi.
But the point is this, I served on a very bipartisan ethics reform group, every once in a while you need to have a good airing of the ethics and ethics rules. That is going to happen.
When we come back, what will the president say tonight on Senate action on his judicial nominees? Russia's president putin is taking a historic trip. Wolf blitzer has details right after the break.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour, President Bush gets ready for a primetime news conference. What can we expect? We'll look ahead with Republican Senator Norm Coleman and Democratic Senator Joe Biden.
Russia's president Vladimir Putin becomes the first Kremlin leader to visit Israel and talks about the Iranian nuclear program. We'll have details.
And a major discovery in Arkansas has bird experts all excited. We'll tell you what is going on.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The president's news conference tonight is likely to run the range of issues, from Tom DeLay's ethics troubles to accusations that Democrats are opposing judicial nominees because of their religion.
Still in the CROSSFIRE, former Republican congressman Bill McCollum from Florida and Democratic strategist Chris LaPetina.
WATKINS: Chris, you know, one of the things that's been talked about so much recently is the fact that the Democratic Party is really becoming the party of no. I mean, they haven't had their own agenda to press forward to share with the American people. What they seem to be taking tremendous pleasure in is just opposing the president and Republicans on almost every important issue.
Now here's an interesting point. The president sent to the Congress an energy bill four years ago. I think in his first month in office. And what's been done about it? Why is it that Democrats are so content to be the party of no as opposed to being a party that offers up ideas and values and direction for the American people?
(APPLAUSE)
LAPETINA: I realize that -- this party of no idea came out of the White House spin machine. I think if you sit down.
WATKINS: Actually some Democrats, including James Carville have just said eventually that Democrats have a perceived problem of lacking direction.
LAPETINA: Let me just say this. I think most Americans understand that the Republican Party controls the White House, control the House of Representatives, the Senate, Supreme Court, and I think they control the new Washington baseball team here. I mean they have control of everything that's going on in Washington.
MCCOLLUM: We don't have control the 60 votes to get past the Senate.
LAPETINA: The point is that it's a cop-out for the Republicans to say, hey, wait a second it's really the Democrats fault that we can't get anything done. Everybody in American knows the Democrats have very little to say on what is going on in Washington nowadays.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I wish the president would say no more often by the way. Case in point, to Crown Prince Abdullah -- again he's holding hands with him, in a very affectionate way makes me sick.
No. He's a despotic dictator of a country that's ripping us off that produced the 19 terrorists that attacked my country and yours. And when he brought his entourage five planeloads full of toadies with him to Texas, one person he wanted to bring with him was on a terrorist watch list. Shouldn't the president of the United States be asked why he's meeting with the leader of a nation who wanted to bring someone on our terrorist watch list into our country?
MCCOLLUM: Because he's agreed to increase the oil production by 25 percent over the three years. That's crucial to that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I think the government is concerned the president is holding hands with a man who wanted to bring someone who's on the terrorist watch list into our country?
MCCOLLUM: There's no question in my mind that we ought to see the change, eventually in the government of Saudi Arabia. Right now is not the time to be doing that. Let me tell you what we really need to be doing. We need to be increasing the number of refineries in this country. We haven't built one in years. The president is proposing incentives to do that.
We need to be getting nuclear back on the table again. We have incentives to do that. We need to be getting encouragement for people to produce air, windmill type of power and generation. And we need tax incentives to do that. We need diesel powered cars and others that are going to be clean. And we need tax incentives to do that.
All that's in the president's plan. The only reason we didn't get the bill through the Senate the last time is because we did not have the votes to go overcome the filibuster. We're going to get that this time.
LAPETINA: Let me ask you about nuclear power plants. There's a debate about it. But does it concern you? And I know you're very -- been strong on national security -- that bin Laden is out there still plotting against the United States and here we are building more targets, in essence, for him before we captured him?
MCCOLLUM: That doesn't concern me a bit. We have plenty of targets. Whether we have more or not is not the issue. Whether we have energy or not is the issue. And whether or not we can, as a country, survive economically in a world we're so competitive with China coming up. And in the meantime, on bin Laden, we need a good intelligence reform which is going on right on. It's going to take awhile. That's our only real defense.
BEGALA: I'm sorry to cut you off. That will have to be the last word. Congressman Bill McCollum, Chris LaPetina, thank you both very much. We look forward to that press conference tonight.
And meanwhile, can Capital America save us? Well, next we'll find out why Donald Rumsfeld is calling all superheroes to the Pentagon. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
America's heroes are going back to the front. Look who stopped by the Pentagon this afternoon -- Spiderman -- I can't say it with a straight face -- Spiderman and Captain America posed for pictures with Defense -- I can't do it -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld who himself by the way enjoys wearing tights in his spare time.
Marvel Comics has unveiled a custom comic book that's being distributed to American forces around the world. The comic books will be available free at military exchanges, no doubt. At least one copy will be read at the White House. Soldier, though, will be getting them for free. And the first group will go to our soldiers in Iraq.
WATKINS: That's great, that's great. And what a nice gesture. BEGALA: It's wonderful. And as I said, one of the things I like about President Bush is he's a comic book man. So, you know, that's -- that's how they're prepping him for the press conference.
And by the way, this programming that CNN has just learned, the White House has decided to move up the beginning of its press conference to 8:00 pm, not 8:30 as we announced earlier. The president's press conference will start at 8:00 pm. CNN, of course, will be here carrying it live.
From the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
From the right, I'm Joe Watkins.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
END
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Aired April 28, 2005 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: CROSSFIRE. On the left, Paul Begala. On the right, Joe Watkins.
In the CROSSFIRE, President Bush, hosting a rare news conference in primetime tonight. At the top of his agenda, energy issues and his proposal to reform Social Security by offering private accounts.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And now's the time for the Congress to set aside political differences and come to the table in good faith to solve this problem.
ANNOUNCER: So far the president is having a hard time convincing Democrats.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, what I'm hoping the president tonight will say about Social Security and his privatization plan, is uncle.
ANNOUNCER: Other issues likely to come up? The stalled nomination of John Bolton for U.N. ambassador, the deadlock over judicial nominees in the Senate and the ethics problems of GOP leader Tom DeLay. Will the president's answers win support?
Today on CROSSFIRE.
Live from the George Washington University Paula Begala and Joe Watkins.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAUL BEGALA, CROSSFIRE CO-HOST: Welcome to CROSSFIRE.
For only the fourth time in his presidency, George W. Bush goes prime time with the press. And we'll be covering it big time.
Mr. Bush's Social Security privatization plan is on the ropes. His nominee for the United Nation is in trouble. His poll numbers are at an all-time low. And his House Republican leader Tom DeLay is in more hot water than Hugh Hefner at a Jacuzzi party. So, can Mr. Bush regain the initiative tonight?
JOE WATKINS, CROSSFIRE CO-HOST: Hold on. The news conference comes at the end of a 60-day, 60-city cross country blitz to sell the president's Social Security privatization plan. It's the perfect time for the president to seal the deal with the American public.
Now the best little political briefing in television. Our CROSSFIRE political alert. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist is offering a compromise to end the bottleneck over confirmation of judicial nominees. Frist's plan gives Democrats 100 hours to debate future Supreme Court nominees and each of President Bush's appellate court choices. In exchange, Democrats will give up their filibuster threat and allow a confirmation vote on each of the nominees. Also, Democrats will retain the right to filibuster lower court nominees.
It's time for Senate Democrats to get off the dime and accept Frist's plan. It's time for the Senate to give these nominees the up or down vote they deserve.
BEGALA: Well, it's time for Bill Frist to deal with reality. The reality is the Senate rules for 200 and some years say that 60 votes were all that were required to take up the matter. And I think that's good, because it forces bipartisanship.
The Republicans want to do away with the one rule in Washington that makes the two parties come together. Harry Reid offered a real compromise. He just said, we'll approve three out of those seven. And they said, no. It was my way or the highway.
(CROSSTALK)
WATKINS: Preservation for all other legislative filibusters. He just wants to provide this reform for the judicial filibusters.
BEGALA: They can't earn the votes. 206 other judges have earned 60 votes. They passed through, because they were seen as qualified and competent by the Senate. If these seven right-wing millionaire lawyers can't earn the 60 votes, they ought not be on the federal bench.
WATKINS: They deserve an up or down vote.
BEGALA: They've had it.
Well anyway, in the fight over judges, some conservatives accuse Democrats of religious bigotry. Of course, there's no evidence of religious prejudice from the left on the issue. But there is some evidence of religious prejudice on the right.
We Catholics well remember George W. Bush's infamous visit to Bob Jones University where he saluted bigots who called Pope John Paul II the antichrist and called Catholicism a cult.
Well, move over Bob Jones, meet Pastor Ted. Ted Haggard is the leader of the National Association of Evangelicals. 45,000 churches and 30 million believers. In the current issue of "Harpers" magazine, he attacks Catholics saying they, quote, "constantly look back" unquote. He says Catholics quote "don't tend to create our greatest entrepreneurs, inventors, research and development" unquote. Haggard says he says quote, "a little clash of civilizations" unquote between Catholics and Protestant evangelicals.
And remember that presidential candidate who went to Bob Jones University five years ago? Well, he or his top White House aides talked to Pastor Ted every Monday.
WATKINS: Well, you know, I'm a Christian and I'm an evangelical.
BEGALA: Do you believe that? Do you believe Catholics are stupid and backward looking.
WATKINS: No, Catholics are our brothers man.
BEGALA: Why is the president talking to a bigot like that every Monday?
WATKINS: The president talks to...
BEGALA: He ought to be talking to you every Monday, not this bigot.
WATKINS: I don't think he's a bigot. I think...
BEGALA: He's attacking Catholics. That's bigotry.
WATKINS: He's made some comments, of course. But I think that sees Catholics are his brothers.
BEGALA: No, he doesn't. Read the "Harpers." Everybody should read the current issue of "Harpers" magazine. It's astonishing.
WATKINS: It's Saddam Hussein's birthday, but he has little to celebrate. What a difference two years can make. While the ousted Iraqi dictator sits in a U.S.-run jail, the new Iraqi National Assembly is turning the page and going about the business of creating a Democratic society.
Today the assembly approved a final list of cabinet members for the transitional government. True, their work isn't totally finish because some of the appointees are only temporary, but the fact remains that three months after national historic elections, a new Iraqi government is being created that's Democratic and reflects the various ethnic, religious and political factions in Iraq.
Meanwhile, Saddam isn't likely to get many birthday presents this year.
BEGALA: Well, no. But someone who got the president here was Ibrahim al Jaafari. First off, it is a good thing their standing up a government. But look at who they are putting in charge. Ibrahim al Jaafari is the new prime minister selected today. He comes from the Dawa Party which was linked to the terrorist bombing to the American embassy in Kuwait. He lived in Iran for nine years where he studied democracy under the Ayatollah Khomeini. He now wants to bring Shariah, fundamentalist Islamic law to Iraq to control women's lives. And he won't shake hands with women. And for this 1500 of our boys died? No.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: It's all about democracy. And giving the Iraqi people the right to choose their own leadership.
BEGALA: The right to choose a theocratic, misogynistic nut at the blood of Americans? No.
WATKINS: They have all the religious factions involved. It's a good thing, a very good thing.
BEGALA: Hopefully the president will talk about this tonight.
Well, Mary Cheney, the openly gay daughter of our vice president is writing a memoir. I for one cannot wait to read it.
But if you live in Alabama, you may not be ale to. You see, State Representative Gerald Allen has introduced legislation to ban books by gay authors and books and plays with gay characters from Alabama schools. Quote, "I guess we dig a big hole and dump them in there and bury them" unquote he told the Birmingham News. Speaking, one hopes, of the books, not the gays themselves.
And as if you didn't know, 99 percent of Alabama Republicans, 99 percent, voted for President Bush. He could stop this censorship in a New York minute, but he hasn't had the guts to defend Mary Cheney or Tennessee Williams or Truman Capote. And I wish he would. Our president is so cowed by the cook right you could almost hear him moo.
WATKINS: This president is big enough to have people who disagree with him around him. And that's a good thing. I think that's a very good -- you know, this is a big party. It's a party that can include and does include all people.
BEGALA: Bigots. Anti-Catholic bigots, anti-Gay bigots.
WATKINS: This is America where people can say and believe what they want. But the truth of the matter is if the Republican Party...
BEGALA: He wants to ban books by gays. Do you think Mary Cheney's book should be outlawed in Alabama?
WATKINS: Well, the truth of the matter of is that Mary Cheney is a good American.
BEGALA: Yes.
WATKINS: And I look forward to reading her book like everybody else.
BEGALA: I can't wait, but don't try to read it in Alabama.
WATKINS: Well, let's wait and see what happens in Alabama with regards to this. But to try to say that all...
BEGALA: Mr. Bush is the leader of his party, he should call on them stop trying to censor Americans like Mary Cheney.
(APPLAUSE)
WATKINS: Well at the end of the day, this president is for a great America, for an open America.
BEGALA: He ought to say that tonight and take these bigots on in Alabama.
Anyway, President Bush reportedly does not like the press very much, nor does he like staying up late. But tonight, he's making exception holding a rare primetime news conference. Next we will debate what our president ought to say to the people he works for later tonight.
And then, why were Spiderman and Captain America at the Pentagon today? We will tell you why later in the CROSSFIRE.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATKINS: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE. The White House is calling it a crucial period in the national debate over Social Security. The president plans to seize the moment in a prime time news conference tonight. The White House says the president will open with a 10-to-12 minute statement and go into more specifics about his plan to create private investment accounts for younger workers. Of course, this being Washington, other subjects are likely to come up. In the CROSSFIRE today, two people that know the ways of Washington: Democratic strategist Chris Lapetina, and Bill McCollum, former Republican congressman from Florida.
Welcome to the CROSSFIRE, men.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: Bill, if I may start with you, Joe said you had a successful, distinguished career in the United States Congress and House of Representatives. It seems to me, politicians, like the president, measure their political capital in terms of public support. That's the currency of democracy, and the president, to his credit, has tried to sell his plan to privatize Social Security -- 600 town hall meetings by the president, his cabinet and staff, or members of Congress - 600, in just four months.
And, let me show you the results. A couple of polls from the ABC/"Washington Post" service. Do you approve or disprove of the president's handling of Social Security? Only 31 percent approve; 64, essentially two-thirds of Americans disapprove of his handling of Social Security. When they asked them which party would do a better job, 50 percent say Democrats -- the majority of Americans, Democrats -- and only 32 percent say President Bush. This is an old-fashioned booty-whipping, isn't it?
BILL MCCOLLUM (R), FMR U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Well, right now, what we have is people finally realizing there's a problem with Social Security, but not being sure what they want to do about it, as they never are.
BEGALA: They seem sure by the polls. Don't let Mr. Bush mess with Social Security is what that says. MCCOLLUM: What we have is a lot of people advertising, as you know -- independent advertising going on out there, every day, trying to scare seniors, and interesting enough, it's seniors who are the problem here.
The president wants personal accounts. He wants to allow individuals to be able to set aside a small portion of their Social Security so that the younger generation can grow this, instead of having to depend on what won't be there in the future if we don't make the changes, and I think he's made a good point about it.
But, the question is, what will he do? he doesn't have a specific plan that's actually out on the table. I think, next, what's going to happen, in my opinion, is he's going to see the Senate and urge the Senate to take action that probably will occur without those personal savings accounts. Then, once you get that down the pike, I think the House will probably put them in and we'll see what happens.
BEGALA: Interesting.
WATKINS: You know, Chris, Democrats have really rallied against the president's proposal for private -- voluntary, I should say -- private accounts. Now, at the same time, they haven't really offered a proposal of their own, have they?
XX: Well, as you know, the Democrats don't have the White House. I think it's incumbent upon the president.
WATKINS: Well, no, but still -- they don't have the White House, but still, you would think that some members of the House or the Senate would come forward and say, well, here's the program we want to...
XX: Well, first of all, they do, and if you talk to most members -- Democratic members -- of Congress, they'll say, we do have a plan. Let's put the money from the tax cut -- the massive Bush tax cut -- back into Social Security. We'll be solvent for the next -- you know, decades to come.
But, you said something very interesting. You said there's a debate going on about Social Security, and there is, and the debate's between the Republican members of the Congress and the president. The president has put forth ideas that his own -- members of his own party -- within the Congress disagree with. That's his problem.
WATKINS: The whole idea is to open the conversation, and that's what the president has done.
BEGALA: But he opened it at the State of the Union address, where he really commanded the nation's attention. He made his case as strongly as he could. He's traveled the country. He does have the bully pulpit. You really don't think Americans are stupid, do you, Bill? They've heard the case and they rejected it.
MCCOLLUM: Let me tell you what the big problem is in this. We could do what we did back in the 1980s when I was in Congress and Reagan was president, if we didn't have your party, the Democrats, wanting to play politics.
BEGALA: Democrats -- hold on one second -- let's go back to history. President Reagan and Tip O'Neill, the speaker of the house...
MCCOLLUM: Exactly.
BEGALA: ...had a commission to study Social Security. There was one rule on that commission: no privatization.
MCCOLLUM: Well...
BEGALA: That was the one thing...
MCCOLLUM: Let me tell you -- let me tell you...
BEGALA: ...that was off the table for Ronald Reagan. It was. I remember it.
MCCOLLUM: Let me tell you the one rule was. The one rule was that Alan Greenspan went back to report to Ronald Reagan every day and Claude Pepper went back to report to Tip O'Neill, and they had an understanding before they started it that they were going to use this as cover to come up with something (INAUDIBLE).
BEGALA: But the private accounts was off the table.
MCCOLLUM: The -- President Reagan agreed to that...
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: That was the first rule.
MCCOLLUM: That wasn't a predisposition.
BEGALA: It was. It was a precondition to meeting.
MCCOLLUM: Well, the bottom line is that there's no agreement that can come about to do this, this time. I've encouraged it. Greenspan's encouraged it. A lot of people have, but the bottom line is, most Republicans tell me over and over again that they don't believe that, at the end of the day, Democrats would really agree, in any of those things, not just to the private accounts, but anything else that way.
So, I think you've got to go through the process I said. I think you're going to see the Senate, at some point, take up that -- maybe it's after some judges and a few fights after that -- but they are going to take up a Social Security bill, and they aren't going to put private accounts, probably, in it, over there, and they're going to pass something that, maybe I'll agree with, maybe I wouldn't, but it will then get us along the road and the House will pass something and it will be different. It'll be (INAUDIBLE) the personal accounts in it.
LAPETINA: But, Congressman, why would the Republicans and Congress agree to something that's been -- agree to do a bill that eliminates the president's cornerstone of fixing what he calls the Social Security crisis, which is these private accounts?
MCCOLLUM: I didn't say the Republicans wouldn't necessarily, but in the Senate, that's what it would take. It would take a cross majority. It would take pushing a bill out, letting it work its will. If the votes aren't there, and I don't think they are for the personal accounts in the Senate, and they probably aren't going to be, then something would come out. I don't know what it would be, but it would probably be a very healthy debate. We need to have the debate. Move it along, because Social Security is in trouble. That's one thing we will agree on.
BEGALA: Well, I certainly don't agree at all. But -- but, let me move on to the next topic.
This is certain, I think, to come up -- the man the president will turn to the House to try to pass his Social Security privatization plan, Tom DeLay, congressman from Sugarland, Texas, my hometown, the House Republican leader, embroiled in terrible ethics controversies right now. The president, God bless him -- I loved seeing this -- hugged him and kissed him, and did whatever. It was really a -- in not-at-all gay way -- but it was very bonding, male, sort of thing.
MCCOLLUM: I'm glad it wasn't.
BEGALA: This week -- but I want to remind you, also, what the president said when he was the governor of Texas, how close he is to Tom DeLay, the least ethical man in Congress. This is from the "Austin-American Statesman," back in 1995 when George W. Bush had just become my governor. Governor bush said representative dick army and tom delay of houston the house majority whip, quote, think the way I think. There's a pretty good texas flavor in the house leadership. He really is joined at the hip with tom delay.
I think the thing I want to say most about this is it's a good thing what happened yesterday, the house ethics committee will now work its way as it should do on all of the ethics matter. We'll all learn together. An awful lot of politics being played with delay. Did he make some mistakes. Probably, I don't think any of us know the degree to which they are there. He need as day in court, so to speak. He will get it. We'll all see how it works out. It could be a big political issue next year. It could blow over.
Do you think he's getting a fair shake here? this is kind of a can of worm opening up the ethics debate. Do you think he's getting a fair shake?
Certainly as fair a shake as jim wright did when he was speaker.
Is this about sour grapes.
Used the same rules to bring down james wright. Also the same shake that newt gingrich got when he was speaker and the house ethics committee looked at some of the things did he. The interesting thing which I think Americans are picking up on is that because the Republicans could, they try to change the rules that had worked so well in the past to bring down a Democratic speaker, as well, and now tom delay is crying these crocodile tears because the same rules that Republicans used are being used against him. He failed to change them which is really what he wanted to do.
Of course we are all finding out, too, a lot of Democrats violated many of the same things he's being criticized for. I think what you're going to see a real airing --
Can you name any?
I understand hoyer had some technical violations.
Nancy pelosi.
But the point is this, I served on a very bipartisan ethics reform group, every once in a while you need to have a good airing of the ethics and ethics rules. That is going to happen.
When we come back, what will the president say tonight on Senate action on his judicial nominees? Russia's president putin is taking a historic trip. Wolf blitzer has details right after the break.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Coming up at the top of the hour, President Bush gets ready for a primetime news conference. What can we expect? We'll look ahead with Republican Senator Norm Coleman and Democratic Senator Joe Biden.
Russia's president Vladimir Putin becomes the first Kremlin leader to visit Israel and talks about the Iranian nuclear program. We'll have details.
And a major discovery in Arkansas has bird experts all excited. We'll tell you what is going on.
All those stories, much more, only minutes away on WOLF BLITZER REPORTS. Now back to CROSSFIRE.
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
The president's news conference tonight is likely to run the range of issues, from Tom DeLay's ethics troubles to accusations that Democrats are opposing judicial nominees because of their religion.
Still in the CROSSFIRE, former Republican congressman Bill McCollum from Florida and Democratic strategist Chris LaPetina.
WATKINS: Chris, you know, one of the things that's been talked about so much recently is the fact that the Democratic Party is really becoming the party of no. I mean, they haven't had their own agenda to press forward to share with the American people. What they seem to be taking tremendous pleasure in is just opposing the president and Republicans on almost every important issue.
Now here's an interesting point. The president sent to the Congress an energy bill four years ago. I think in his first month in office. And what's been done about it? Why is it that Democrats are so content to be the party of no as opposed to being a party that offers up ideas and values and direction for the American people?
(APPLAUSE)
LAPETINA: I realize that -- this party of no idea came out of the White House spin machine. I think if you sit down.
WATKINS: Actually some Democrats, including James Carville have just said eventually that Democrats have a perceived problem of lacking direction.
LAPETINA: Let me just say this. I think most Americans understand that the Republican Party controls the White House, control the House of Representatives, the Senate, Supreme Court, and I think they control the new Washington baseball team here. I mean they have control of everything that's going on in Washington.
MCCOLLUM: We don't have control the 60 votes to get past the Senate.
LAPETINA: The point is that it's a cop-out for the Republicans to say, hey, wait a second it's really the Democrats fault that we can't get anything done. Everybody in American knows the Democrats have very little to say on what is going on in Washington nowadays.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I wish the president would say no more often by the way. Case in point, to Crown Prince Abdullah -- again he's holding hands with him, in a very affectionate way makes me sick.
No. He's a despotic dictator of a country that's ripping us off that produced the 19 terrorists that attacked my country and yours. And when he brought his entourage five planeloads full of toadies with him to Texas, one person he wanted to bring with him was on a terrorist watch list. Shouldn't the president of the United States be asked why he's meeting with the leader of a nation who wanted to bring someone on our terrorist watch list into our country?
MCCOLLUM: Because he's agreed to increase the oil production by 25 percent over the three years. That's crucial to that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEGALA: I think the government is concerned the president is holding hands with a man who wanted to bring someone who's on the terrorist watch list into our country?
MCCOLLUM: There's no question in my mind that we ought to see the change, eventually in the government of Saudi Arabia. Right now is not the time to be doing that. Let me tell you what we really need to be doing. We need to be increasing the number of refineries in this country. We haven't built one in years. The president is proposing incentives to do that.
We need to be getting nuclear back on the table again. We have incentives to do that. We need to be getting encouragement for people to produce air, windmill type of power and generation. And we need tax incentives to do that. We need diesel powered cars and others that are going to be clean. And we need tax incentives to do that.
All that's in the president's plan. The only reason we didn't get the bill through the Senate the last time is because we did not have the votes to go overcome the filibuster. We're going to get that this time.
LAPETINA: Let me ask you about nuclear power plants. There's a debate about it. But does it concern you? And I know you're very -- been strong on national security -- that bin Laden is out there still plotting against the United States and here we are building more targets, in essence, for him before we captured him?
MCCOLLUM: That doesn't concern me a bit. We have plenty of targets. Whether we have more or not is not the issue. Whether we have energy or not is the issue. And whether or not we can, as a country, survive economically in a world we're so competitive with China coming up. And in the meantime, on bin Laden, we need a good intelligence reform which is going on right on. It's going to take awhile. That's our only real defense.
BEGALA: I'm sorry to cut you off. That will have to be the last word. Congressman Bill McCollum, Chris LaPetina, thank you both very much. We look forward to that press conference tonight.
And meanwhile, can Capital America save us? Well, next we'll find out why Donald Rumsfeld is calling all superheroes to the Pentagon. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEGALA: Welcome back to CROSSFIRE.
America's heroes are going back to the front. Look who stopped by the Pentagon this afternoon -- Spiderman -- I can't say it with a straight face -- Spiderman and Captain America posed for pictures with Defense -- I can't do it -- Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld who himself by the way enjoys wearing tights in his spare time.
Marvel Comics has unveiled a custom comic book that's being distributed to American forces around the world. The comic books will be available free at military exchanges, no doubt. At least one copy will be read at the White House. Soldier, though, will be getting them for free. And the first group will go to our soldiers in Iraq.
WATKINS: That's great, that's great. And what a nice gesture. BEGALA: It's wonderful. And as I said, one of the things I like about President Bush is he's a comic book man. So, you know, that's -- that's how they're prepping him for the press conference.
And by the way, this programming that CNN has just learned, the White House has decided to move up the beginning of its press conference to 8:00 pm, not 8:30 as we announced earlier. The president's press conference will start at 8:00 pm. CNN, of course, will be here carrying it live.
From the left, I'm Paul Begala. That's it for CROSSFIRE.
From the right, I'm Joe Watkins.
Join us again next time for another edition of CROSSFIRE. "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS" starts right now.
END
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