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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Will Putin's Forces Invade Ukraine?; CDC Looking Into Experimental Ebola Treatments; Behind the Recent Middle East Tensions

Aired August 07, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper in Jerusalem where the clock is ticking down on that 72-hour cease-fire between Israeli and Palestinian forces, much more on that to come.

But moving now to the civil war going on, on the Eastern Ukraine border, to paraphrase the Russian play write Anton Chekov, if you bring a gun on stage, it's going to go off.

Right now, Russian leader, Vladimir Putin has pulled a whole lot of firepower on the border, 17 battalions. Some 20,000 troops ready for action as this is dangerous human drama continues to play out on the world stage.

Meanwhile, pro-Russian rebels inside Ukraine have reportedly shot down another Ukrainian military jet with a Russian made surface-to-air missile system according to Kiev.

Our senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh, is risking life and limb to bring us the latest from this war zone. Nick, tell us about this latest shootdown and the Russian threat on the border.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the reason why many have focused on this latest shootdown Mink 29 near north to the crash site of MH-17 is because Ukrainian officials claim it was taken down by a BUK missile system, which is exactly the same one they claim as U.S. officials do, as well that took out MH-17.

This is happening, though, as the Ukrainian military is advancing fast towards where I am sat in the center of Donetsk. We do hear small arms fire at dawn. It's been a day really of chaos, frankly, here the separatist leader, Alexander Barradie not seen in public for a while suddenly appeared and resigned.

And handed his title of the prime minister to a man few had heard of, a militant leader here. People are wondering what does that mean? Does that mean the militants are the disbanding, vanishing into the night? Is there a brutal battle ahead? Russia has 20,000 troops across the border and still wrestling with sanctions -- Jake.

TAPPER: Nick, who do you think has the momentum in this war right now? The pro-Russian rebels or the Ukrainian military?

WALSH: No doubt the Ukrainian military are absolutely in force here moving forward faster than many thought they could. We went to a town between where I'm sat and the crash site, which is supposed to be a place where the rebels are holding out.

Now they're being as far as we saw very heavily battered by artillery. Still trying to dig in, but almost defending themselves as though they were being encircled. So it's a messy complex situation for them. The question is, if Russia intervenes they could perhaps change momentum.

Otherwise we're looking I think possibly at Ukrainian troops on streets. That's where I'm sat, reasonably soon -- Jake.

TAPPER: Nick Paton Walsh in Donetsk, be safe my friend.

It will be difficult if not impossible for the rebels to win this war in Ukraine without with more of Putin's help. And with those 20,000 troops standing at the ready, the big question is, will Putin ramp up direct involvement in this war that he has foe mentioned or will he blink?

Let's bring in Julia Ioffe, senior editor for "The New Republic." Her new op-ed is titled "Vladimir Putin Might Fall. We Should Consider What Happens Next." Julia, good to see you. Is this the kind of man that is ever willing to back down?

JULIA IOFFE, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NEW REPUBLIC": Yes, he is. He just has to do it on his own terms on his own time line. He can't ever be seen in his mind to be you know, succumbing to pressure. So the more we press him, the more he's going to resist and do things like ban western food imports into Russia and mass Russian troops on the border.

But then eventually, once the spotlight moves on, I think he can slowly walk that back. And make it seem like it was his decision rather than him giving into western pressure.

TAPPER: Do you think these sanctions are working and what would it take beyond them if you think there needs to be something beyond them to ultimately break Putin?

IOFFE: You know, I think it's really hard to say. I think one of the things would have to be a prolonged economic decline, which Putin now seems to be accelerating by banning western food imports. Looks like that's going to create rising prices and inflation in Russia. That's not good.

Part of Putin's social contract with the Russian people is that he provides for them. He makes sure that they do better and better year in year out and they stay out of politics. What happens if he doesn't deliver on his side of the bargain? What are the Russian people going to do?

TAPPER: And your op-ed in "The New Republic's" fascinating. Say Putin does fall. What comes next, do you think?

IOFFE: That question really worries me. Generally what happens after you know, regime change for lack of a better term in Russia is the system that replaces it isn't all that much different from the one that it's replacing.

When the Bolsheviks replaces the Czar, they improved on many of the things that he did, for example, the gulags in Siberia. When Putin and Boris Yeltsin replaced the soviet system, they didn't change many of the judges, many of the bureaucrats. The system is still basically the same.

It's until now more open to the world. I think we're going to see after Putin, if he ever leaves, is a system that's going to look a lot like this, if not worse.

TAPPER: And Julia, weigh also learned today that NSA leaker, Edward Snowden, will be allowed to stay in Russia for three more years. How do you think Putin connected that decision in his head to his political war with the west?

IOFFE: I think it's another way to ding the west. I think this would have happened even if Russia hadn't annexed Crimea even if we didn't have the trade war starting with the Russians. I think this would have happened anyway because Edward Snowden has nowhere to go thanks to U.S. policy.

If he were to leave Russia, his plane would probably be brought down somewhere. He would probably be extradited to a country like Brazil where he said he wants to go instead of Russia.

Putin can't be seen handing him over just because the Americans ask. So you know, he's kind of fulfilling -- this this is a situation that the U.S. created and Putin has kind of playing along with it.

TAPPER: Julia Ioffe, thank you so much as always.

Coming up next, a warning from one health minister. The whole world is in danger. What is the Centers for Disease Control doing right now to stop the spread of the deadly Ebola virus?

Plus, the event that led to this conflict in the Middle East. The kidnapping and murder of three Israeli teenagers. What exactly happened that night? Today, I went investigating to try to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. Live from Jerusalem where we have been keeping a close eye on negotiations to extend the cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. We're also, of course, following other major stories including this one just weeks ago.

Nigeria was a mere spectator to the deadly Ebola crisis sweeping West Africa, but now there are fears that that country could be on the verge of becoming the next hot zone for the virus with health officials there warning every nation and every individual is at risk.

Dr. Tom Frieden, the director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention testified before a congressional committee today about the serious nature of the outbreak warning that it requires, quote, "meticulous attention to detail," unquote, because if just one patient not isolated, it will flare back up like a forest fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: We can stop Ebola. We know how to do it. It will be a long and hard fight and the situations in Lagos, Nigeria is particularly concerning. But we can stop Ebola. Second, we have to stop it at the source in Africa. That's the only way to get control.

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TAPPER: Let's bring in CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Good to see you. Dr. Frieden warned of the severity of the outbreak, but he clearly believes there's a plan in place to get it under control. What is this plan?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, he sort of predicates this a little bit on the fact that they've always been able to get Ebola outbreaks under control. Admittedly this is the biggest most widespread Ebola outbreak in history.

But it really has to do with dealing with things on the ground in West Africa. Breaking up some cultural practices that seem to be adding to the spread of the disease, particularly around funerals. This is a big deal. We saw some of this in guinea, as well.

But the idea of public funerals where there's laying on of the hands at a time when the body is still shedding virus is a huge problem. Until you start to stem it at the source there, you're not going to get control.

You can do things with screenings at airports and border shutdowns and things like that, but that's not going to control the problem. He made another interesting point that the public health infrastructure is bad there. We've known that for a long time.

It's so bad things like this sort of go unchecked. Unless that public health structure is invested and built up, even after this Ebola outbreak is controlled, this will happen again. So it really has to be a combination of both those things, building up that public health infrastructure, as well. It's going to require money.

TAPPER: We also heard testimony today from the VP of Samaritans Purse at the hearing. He says the international response has been a failure and the full impact of Ebola has not yet been realized. How so?

GUPTA: Well, the failure part I think a lot of it comes from just being late especially on behalf of some of the governments in the area. You're hearing states of emergency being declared now, doing things like preventing, actually requiring cremation of bodies as opposed to these burials I was talking about where the epidemic has been spreading.

But it all came kind of late. I think that's been a huge part of his concern. And also the fact that the numbers as we know them, we're talking about some 1,700 infections. You know, when you go to these remote areas, there are so many people who never get counted.

They have no interest in interfacing with the medical establishment. He thinks we're getting maybe 25 to 50 percent of the actual numbers. So just multiply by two to four all the numbers you're hearing in terms of infections and fatalities. That's what he's referring to as well.

We don't have a handle on this even in terms of the most basic data collection and counting people. It's hard to do admittedly. You need a lot of people on ground to make it happen. That's just now starting to happen four months into this thing.

TAPPER: And Sanjay lastly, the senate committee brought up this experimental serum several times during the hearing. It's a story you broke on Monday. What did the CDC have to say about this serum? Are there any plans to fast track approval?

GUPTA: I think there's a lot of fascination by all of these agencies. There's also a lot of sort of saying the CDC saying this is not our area, more the NIH and the FDA's area. When we talked to the NIH, they say you need to have some clinical trials.

It may have shown promise in these two patients, but we can't start recommending it for large segments of the population until we get a little bit more data. Is it safe? Look, some say, what's the harm if somebody's going to die anyways

There could still be problems. You have 40 percent of the people who survive and this could cause potentially problematic side effects they want to avoid.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Gupta, thank you so much for joining us.

Coming up next, the Israeli government making an arrest in the three murders that helped ignite a war announcing that arrest this week. What exactly happened the night those teenagers disappeared? Today, we went to find out.

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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper live in Jerusalem. Tensions have never been far from the surface here in the Middle East. But the June 12th kidnapping of three Israeli boys was the spark that ignited this latest chapter of the brutal battle between Israel and the Palestinians.

So much of these kidnappings and murders remain shrouded in mystery. So today we set out to try to understand just what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER (voice-over): This week an arrest was announced in the kidnappings and murders of the three Israeli teens. Hossam Qawasmeh, a senior member of Hamas the Israelis say. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His arrest I hope will lead to further arrests. We'll get to the bottom of the murders of those three teenagers.

TAPPER: The Israeli government has maintained that Hamas was behind the kidnappings and murders. Hamas in Gaza denies any involvement.

(on camera): On the fateful night, they were coming from their religious school here in the West Bank to a junction where hitchhiking is not uncommon, but instead of the car taking them to the north towards Jerusalem to home, it took them instead in the opposite direction.

(voice-over): The boys were taken this way to Hebron, a town in the West Bank where there is support for Hamas because of the Israeli occupation.

(on camera): We're on the path that the kidnappers took that night as they drove the three boys who must have been terrified past groves of olive trees and vineyards. It's an oddly idyllic setting considering the ugly crime that awaited them at the end of this road.

(voice-over): At some point during this ride, one of the boys managed to call the police for help. I've been abducted he said in a quiet voice. And then after orders from his captors, you can hear gunshots. Some critics have suggested the police knew the boys were almost certainly dead given the gunshots on the recording and the discovery of this burnt out car the kidnappers were driving.

But initially the police issued a gag order on media reporting this information. They say that's because of the possibility that the boys were still alive. They did not want to tip their hand to the kidnappers. The Israeli military then conducted intense search operations for the boys interrogating and arresting.

And even getting into deadly confrontations with Palestinians in the West Bank. The people of Israel were anguished and then a Palestinian teen was murdered in what saw as a revenge killing. Hamas and Gaza resumed launching rockets into Israel and the drums of war began pounding.

On June 26th, Israeli police announced they were seeking two suspects, Amir Abu Asia and a relative of Hossam Qawasmi, Maruan Qawasmi also from Hebron.

(on camera): Their names were Naftali Fraenkal, Gilad Shaiar and Ayal Nifrach and for these three boys, it was the end of the road.

(voice-over): The bodies of the teenagers were found here in Hebron. Eight days later, the Israeli military launched its offensive against Hamas and Gaza. Three days after that Hossam Qawasmi was arrested. We met with his father today.

The family in Hebron is very large and has had many members who participated in suicide bombings on Israeli civilians. Two of Ali's sons have been killed clashes with the Israeli military. We are considered a terrorist family, according to the Israelis, he says. Of course, we say that we are resistance family against the occupation. Ali is proud that many members of his family are in Hamas. He says in this case, his son is being framed.

My son was framed to make an excuse to attack Gaza, he says. People told me that the Israelis in a helicopter dropped off three bodies, which looked like they were from a traffic accident. They buried them on my son's land. After a short while said they were killed.

This was revenge to our family, he says. Police sources tell CNN under interrogation, Hossam admitted he was commander of the terrorist cell. For this act he received funds from and coordinated with Hamas in Gaza buying weapons and coordinating where they would be buried.

Ali says, even if he confessed, it was probably under torture and pressure and beating. Many are skeptical given the family's background. One columnist for the website Al Monitor writes, quote, "I have been covering Palestinian society for many years and I have never encountered a family that has spawned so many sons with blood on their hands."

And now questions whether the blood drawn in the kidnappings and murders of the three teenagers prompted too much blood from too many other children.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I now turn you over to Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM."