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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Hillary Puts Political Distance Between Herself and Former Boss; Call for Calm in Ferguson, Missouri After Michael Brown's Shooting Death; Fragile Cease-Fire Holds as Negotiations Continue in Middle East; Tragic NASCAR Death Under Investigation

Aired August 11, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

About 20 minutes from now, we're expecting President Obama to take a moment out of his time in Martha's Vineyard to make a statement about Iraq.

In the meantime, to our politics lead -- Hillary Clinton, a likely presidential candidate in 2016, now seems to be putting some healthy political distance between herself and the administration in which she serves, saying that the current crisis in Iraq, quote, "the failure to help build up a credible fighting force of the people who were the originators of the protest against Assad in Syria, there were Islamists, there were secularists, there was everything in the middle, the failure to do that left a big vacuum which the jihadists of ISIS have now filled," unquote.

Clinton made those comments in an interview with "The Atlantic's" Jeffrey Goldberg, who joins me now.

Let me grab onto the word "failure" that Hillary uses. She means, two things -- a failure of President Obama to pick a horse in Syria and the failure of President Obama to not listen to her.

JEFFREY GOLDBERG, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, I mean, I suppose the second part. I was thinking more in terms of the policy. I was surprised by the use of the word "failure" because failure is a fairly blunt word. But I suppose you're right. It's you know, the last couple of weeks have proven I think at least to her and people around her, her supporters that she was right. That you can't let this metastasize, that you can't make believe that it's not going to affect new some way.

So, you know, the interview was done within that context but yes -- I mean, it's a failure to listen to my good advice, but mainly it's a failure to analyze the situation, a failure to -- I think this has what she means, a failure to sort of make your Iraq decisions and your Syria decisions based on the facts on the ground rather than the promise you made, the popular promise.

TAPPER: The red line. Yes, the red line.

GOLDBERG: Well, not only that, the only the red line, but the promise you made even as a candidate for president to withdraw from Iraq, and not get engaged in these nasty Middle East civil wars.

TAPPER: Right.

GOLDBERG: And, you know, and her point I think is that yes, it's better not to be there but by pulling out, we might even make it worse.

TAPPER: It's a long and very substantive interview. I encourage people to read it at "The Atlantic" Web site. It seems to me that if, and she seems to be leaning very heavily into the "when she runs for president", "not if" in the interview. But it seems to me that if she does run, she is definitely going to be distinguishing herself from President Obama by talking about the United States playing a more active role in the world stage, not withdrawing, not leaving these vacuums of leadership that Obama's critics have seized on.

GOLDBERG: This is the most interesting thing in the whole hour-and-a- half or whatever interview that I did. She frames the issues and the challenges that the U.S. is facing in the Middle East in Cold War terms. She basically said to me, you know, we defeated the Soviet Union. We defeated communism. Some of it we did it -in sometimes in ugly ways, but we had an objective, and we achieved the objective and the objective was just. And she's basically saying a, that's what you're going to get with a President Hillary Clinton. You're going to get jihadism dealt with, ISIS and other groups in the same way, in the same overarching framework.

And she's also saying this White House takes a different -- the current White House takes a different tact, which is we're fighting an organization called al Qaeda and we killed its leader, and we're leaving Iraq, and this is not some kind of global struggle of modernity against medievalism or however you want to frame it. She's saying this is a major struggle. And we have to lead in this struggle. It's not enough, as she said to me, to say don't do stupid stuff. That's not enough of an organizing principle for a great democracy. We need a larger idea to animate us.

And that's always been the difference between Obama and Hillary. And Hillary has subsumed that, obviously. When she went to work for him, she couldn't display that kind of different ideological posture.

TAPPER: Now it's on full display, that's for sure. Don't do stupid stuff is one of the things Obama says a principle of his foreign policy.

But I want to talk about the fact that when Hillary launched her book and when she was under fire for Benghazi, the word went out from the White House to everybody in the Obama administration no daylight between President Obama and Hillary Clinton. No daylight. They could have -- I'm not saying they should have or that it would have been right or accurate -- but they could have thrown her under the bus for Benghazi and kind of tried to get rid of the headache by blaming it on her. They did not.

There's now daylight from her, and we have reporting from Jim Acosta at the White House that after she did the interview with you, her people called the White House and said hey, heads up, we did this interview.

GOLDBERG: I've heard the same thing.

TAPPER: I don't know they're going to be that tight anymore.

GOLDBERG: Well, you know, that could be true. But what I've also heard from people around President Obama, people close to the White House inside even, is that there's an adult recognition that she's running for president. And that one of the things you have to do when you're running in the same party to succeed a president, you have to sort of show some of the differences. Especially, by the way, when the president who you want to succeed is not terribly popular.

So, there's an understanding that this is politics in a kind of way. And look, you know, one thing that people are missing, obviously, and they should read the whole interview, is that she has a lot of warm words for President Obama and she admires him and she respects him. Obviously, nobody pays attention to those. It's the stuff that's distancing that you pay attention to, that I also pay attention to, But you know, it nevertheless, it's there, but I think that the White House understands this is politics.

TAPPER: We'll see. We'll see. Thank you so much, Jeffrey Goldberg. Congratulations. Very interesting interview. TheAtlantic.com.

Coming up next, the family devastated. A police chief calls it the worst night of his life. So why did police in Missouri shoot and kill an unarmed black 18-year-old? Well, that depends who you ask.

Plus, a close call hours just before the cease-fire took hold. Next, our own Martin Savidge describes his reaction to this Israeli bombing and the fear amongst Palestinians that this latest 72-hour truce will not last.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. Moments from now, President Obama is expected to deliver a statement about the crisis in Iraq.

But first to our National Lead. There is a call for calm in the tiny town of Ferguson, Missouri, just outside St. Louis. It has been torn to pieces, that town. Emotionally and in some ways, literally, after an unarmed teenager was gunned down by police.

Eighteen-year-old Michael Brown was shot and killed on Saturday night, but the events that led to that shooting have been widely disputed. Witness say Brown had his arms in the air. He was ready to surrender. According to police, Brown assaulted an officer and grabbed for his gun. A vigil for the teen turned violent yesterday with some protestors breaking into stores and looting. And at least one building was set on fire. The FBI is now investigating the shooting. The Justice Department is, too.

Joining me now is CNN's David Mattingly. He's in Ferguson, where another round of protests took place today. David, what's the scene like today? DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, here in Ferguson, there is a great deal of tension because everything that you saw last night, all of that anger, all of that outrage, still exists today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): A Sunday night candlelight vigil turns violent.

(SIRENS AND YELLING)

MATTINGLY: As residents of Ferguson, Missouri take to the streets, protesting the death of 18-year-old Michael Brown. There are two very different versions of what happened. Witnesses say Brown had his hands in the air when police fired on him multiple times. Police say Brown fought with an officer over his service weapon before the shooting.

CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE DEPT.: Allegedly pushed the police officer back into the car, where he physically assaulted the police officer. It is our understanding in this point in the investigation that within the police car there was a struggle over the officer's weapon. There was at least one shot fired within the car.

MATTINGLY: Peaceful protestors knelt before police with their hands in the air. Others looted, some hitting this convenience store not far from where Brown was killed. Thirty-two people were arrested.

CHIEF THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE DEPT.: It breaks my heart. Last night was the worst night of my life. I have never seen anything like it, and I hope I never see anything like it again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Justice:

MATTINGLY: A day after the looting, the emptied and burned QuikTrip still smolders, as do tensions in this community outside of St. Louis. Fresh graffiti reads "RIP Mike." Stuffed animals mark the spot where Brown was killed. Today was supposed to be his first day of college. His family is devastated.

LESLEY MCSPADDEN, MICHAEL BROWN'S MOTHER: Do you know how hard it was for me to get him to stay in school and graduate? You know how many black men graduate? Not many!

MATTINGLY: The family has now retained Benjamin Crump, the man who represented Trayvon Martin's family.

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY: Their son was doing all the right things - graduating from high school, never been in trouble, and for this to happen, for him to be killed in broad daylight, they're just completely devastated and they want answers, just like everybody else in the community.

MATTINGLY: This protest ends with a march on Ferguson Police headquarters. Officers in riot gear push back the crowd. Some are arrested.

City officials urge patience and appeal for peace while the investigation continues.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's have this conversation tomorrow. Let's vent our frustration today. But let's be calm tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: And of course, everyone now wondering what will happen tonight after everything went so badly yesterday. We received word not long ago that the autopsy has come out, and we will soon probably found out how many times Brown was shot and where. That will go a long way into deciding who is right in this argument about how this tragedy happened. Jake?

TAPPER: David Mattingly in Ferguson, Missouri. It's just a tragic story. Thank you so much.

Coming up, we're waiting for President Obama to speak about the situation in Iraq. That's supposed to happen in just a few minutes. We'll go to that as soon as he starts.

Plus a dangerous move on the racetrack as the driver confront his competitor, who then hits and kills him in front of horrified fans. So why have racing officials not banned this risky behavior?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to "THE LEAD". In other world news, we are in the middle of another fragile 72-hour cease-fire in Gaza and Israel. How long will the quiet last, of course, is the big question. While Gaza's came out of hiding for humanitarian aid and to inspect the rubble that remains from their homes, Israeli and Palestinian delegations returned to Cairo for another round of indirect talks.

Hamas says this is their last attempt at negotiations. One Palestinian man was killed by Israeli security forces after the cease- fire went into the effect. The military says the man barricaded himself in a building then fired a gun, but a Palestinian news agency says the man was targeted by Israeli forces. And eight others were injured. Just the most recent example of conflicting reports we receive in this complicated war zone.

CNN has correspondents on the ground on both sides of the border. Martin Savidge is in Gaza City and Saima Moshin in Jerusalem Let's start with Martin Savidge. Martin, is humanitarian aid getting in? What are you seeing?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is actually. Yes, the crossings that had been closed and the only way humanitarian aid gets in is via those crossings from Israel have been reopened yesterday. They had to closed because of rocket fire. So very good news. They need a lot more, and more apparently would be on the way. Depends on how long they keep up the cease-fire. The good news also there seems to be that no rockets went out and nobody has quit the negotiations. And those are real positive signs. Lots of people on the streets today and a lot of people just enjoying the fact that there wasn't war going on. And it's a far cry than, say, what we witnessed yesterday. And you know what I'm referencing. It was that is missile strike right out our window.

TAPPER: Let's talk about that. You had a pretty --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(EXPLOSION)

SAVIDGE: Guess they hit that house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that one. Uh-oh.

SAVIDGE: Oh!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: So as you could see, incredibly close. And the first one was what they call the nod, the roof nod, and the one seven and a half minutes later is the actual blast that took out the house.

And television never does that justice. The concussion that comes through, or the concussive force, is just incredible. So much quieter tonight and we're all glad if it.

TAPPER: Martin Savidge, some incredible reporting there. And thank goodness you took out the glass from the window there. Otherwise, I'm sure it would have burst and been projectiles.

But let's go to Saima Moshin in Jerusalem. Saima, how are the Israelis responding to the Palestinian demands in these negotiations?

SAIMA MOSHIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, we're getting more information about what the Palestinians are asking for. We know that they wanted an end to the economic blockade of Gaza. They're saying that they also want freedom of movement for both goods and people. Of course, the Israeli authorities have full rights and retain those to monitor and restrict what goes in and out of Gaza -- they say because they need to monitor any kind of transported weapons. But people as well as are restricted and the goods that go in for the people in Gaza. They want to see that changed, and want the opening of air and seaports, the extension of fishing rights.

What I understand from background from Israeli officials I'm talking to here in Jerusalem is that they are willing to entertain this. They're considering it. But it isn't going to happen anytime soon. They're waiting and watching. It may be a step by step progress, so we may see some things agreed to in the next 72-hour process, or rather we're rolling up to the full 24 hours in this cease-fire. So another 36 hours and then -- so we'll see some kind of change or movement hopefully. They will then perhaps discuss and extend the cease-fire and then we'll see more to come. And that's really because, look, they've had this huge operation,

Operation Protective Edge, in Gaza. They can't really be seen to be backing down too soon, can they? And of course let's not forget polls here in Israel from the people in local media saying the people are very much supportive of Operation Protective Edge. So again, they have to play to their home audience, so to speak, the domestic audience, which really don't want to see their government back down or their military just yet, which is why we're hearing Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying, look, this operation very much isn't over yet. We may have destroyed the tunnels we wanted to destroy, but there is other work to do. They want to see of course a demilitarization of Gaza.

So talks very much under way; let's wait and see what happens. Jake?

TAPPER: That's right. The demilitarization is the Israeli demand in these cease-fire talks. Martin Savidge and Saima Moshin, thank you so much.

Coming up next, spectators watch in horror as a popular NASCAR driver hits and kills another racer, who confronted him on the track. And now some are wondering why is this behavior even allowed?

We are also waiting for that press conference from President Obama, or the press announcement. Stay tuned. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to "THE LEAD". We are now, right now, waiting for President Obama to come out and speak. We're told he's going to talk about Iraq. And as soon as he comes out, we will bring that to you live.

But let's turn to the Sports Lead. "Rubbin' is racing." That's at least how Robert Duvall's oil slicked character in "Days of Thunder" perfectly described the world of driving, a sport where riding bumper to bumper at gear splitting speeds is the norm. But it also means there's a margin of inches for drivers and things can turn deadly all too quickly. And that is what happened sadly Saturday night at a junior circuit race.

The video of what happened is so graphic, we're only going to show you part of it. Racing star Tony Stewart spun out the car of a 20-year- old-year-old racer named Kevin Ward, Jr. When Junior got out, furious, gesturing at Stewart, on his next lap around the dirt track, the three-time NASCAR Sprint Cup champ fishtailed and caught Ward under his wheels before the car flung him against the guardrail. By the time he got to a hospital, Ward was dead.

Right now Stewart faces no charges related to the fatal wreck, but local police say an investigation into the incident is ongoing.

And joining me now is host of CNN's "UNGUARDED", Rachel Nichols. Rachel, great to see you, as always. So Stewart released a statement expressing his condolences, saying, "There aren't words to describe the sadness I feel about the accident that took the life of Kevin Ward, Jr."

What are you hearing from people in the racing world about this disaster?

RACHEL NICHOLS, CNN HOST, "UNGUARDED": Well, I think first there's just a lot of sadness and shock. This of course happens all too often in what is supposed to be a sport. And even though it is a reality of racing that people die every time it happens, especially with a young man, 20 years old, it sends shock waves through everyone.

Then once people move on from the condolences of Kevin Ward, Jr., to Tony Stewart, I'm not sure people really know what to think. There's a lot of confusing things coming out of his camp in the first hours after this happened. The morning at Watkins Glen, the next race he was supposed to race, there was a quote from someone in his crew saying, quote, "It's business as usual." That was, of course, very tone deaf thing to say. It's never business as usual when someone dies.

There were questions whether he would race. And it was some of the other drivers, along with people on his team, who talked him through the idea that maybe it wasn't a good idea to race that day and ultimately that's what Tony said he decided.

TAPPER: And a witness, Tyler Graves, also a Sprint car driver and a friend of Ward's, told The Sporting News this, quote: "I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle." Unquote.

Now, that is a very serious accusation.

NICHOLS: Yes. Absolutely. And look, there's a lot of emotion going on here. I am not sure someone sitting in the stands, which is where that driver was sitting, would have the absolute unassailable accurate idea of exactly what happened in the track at an moment. That's why the police are investigating and trying to talk to as many people as they can who were actually a little bit closer.

It's tough to say if we're ever going to know what happened. Did he open up the throttle, hit the throttle a little bit because trying to avoid Ward? Was he trying to rev up and maybe teach Ward a little bit of a lesson, clip him a little or just scare him a little bit? Maybe he didn't see him at all.

That's what the police are investigating right now. They're looking at the lighting conditions, the fact that Ward was wearing a black suit. It's not one of the more well-lit dirt tracks we have in this country, and did Stewart see him with the way that car is set up?

TAPPER: And, Stewart, of course, has a long sheet of on and offtrack incidents. He punched a photographer in 2002. There's this infamous incident caught on video where he hurled his helmet at an oncoming car in 2012, marching up and down the track exactly like Ward did Saturday. And just last year of course he stalked another driver to pit road and took a swing at him.

With all this bad behavior, some might even be asking why is he even allowed to race?

NICHOLS: Oh, come on, Jake. Next you're going to tell me you're shocked there's gambling in this establishment. You know that in NASCAR, sports like hockey, this knife edge they walk on, the idea they want their athletes to be a little bit tough, to be a little hot headed, to be a little rebellious and sort of walk that line is something that is fine as long as nobody is getting hurt. You hope that, in this case, none of that came into play in this accident. That's yet to be determined.

TAPPER: Fair enough. Rachel Nichols, thank you so much.

I always enjoy a nice Claude Rains reference.

As we've been telling you, President Obama is about to give an update on the situation in Iraq. Stay with CNN for those remarks. We will carry them live. We expect him to start speaking very shortly.

Make sure to follow me on Twitter @jaketapper -- that's all oen word -- and also @theleadCNN. That's it for "THE LEAD". I'm Jake Tapper. I now turn you over to Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM".