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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ebola Fears; Battle Against ISIS; ISIS Gaining Ground Despite Airstrikes; President Speaks on Ebola Threat

Aired October 06, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The black flag of ISIS was raised over a key Syrian border town just as U.S. authorities arrested an American teenager allegedly trying to join the terrorist group.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The national lead. He was steps away from boarding the plane, federal authorities grabbing a 19-year-old American accused of trying to leave the leafy suburbs to fight for ISIS on the battlefields of Syria and Iraq.

Also in national news, after the first Ebola case ever diagnosed in the U.S. popped up in his state, the Texas governor announces a plan to stop Ebola at the border. But would it have stopped Thomas Duncan from reaching Dallas?

And he says Ebola is about to get worse, a lot worse. I will talk to the doctor who's saying what many are afraid to say in public.

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We will of course begin with the national lead. Close your eyes, if you would, and picture a typical American suburb. That's where he lived and today a 19-year-old from the Chicago area stood in court and was accused of trying to join ISIS. The feds say that Mohammed Hamzah Khan was arrested at O'Hare International Airport over the weekend as he tried to board a plane to Vienna en route to Turkey with plans to eventually join the merciless terrorist group in Syria.

Authorities say they also searched his home and found what might be called a road map to his radicalization.

CNN justice correspondent Pamela Brown joins us now with all the latest.

Pam, how did authorities track him down and what more do we know about this teenager?

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: They're not saying how they tracked him down, Jake, but we do know that federal authorities are aware of certain forums that jihadis use, as well as get tips from human sources and so forth.

They're not being specific in this case. But there are a lot of details in this criminal complaint. Authorities apparently found writings inside Mohammed Khan's Chicago home showing his support for ISIS and desire to travel to Syria or Iraq. And authorities say his arrest reflects a growing problem of Americans being lured by the ISIS propaganda machine.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Nineteen-year-old Mohammed Khan appeared in federal court this morning accused of wanting to join ISIS in Syria or Iraq. The FBI arrested him at Chicago's O'Hare Airport as he was about to board a flight to Vienna and on to Istanbul, the gateway into Syria.

According to the criminal complaint obtained by CNN, police covered notebooks at Khan's home with drawings of the ISIS flag and an armed fighter with the words "Come to jihad."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Federal authorities here may be saying that he's offering himself as a soldier for ISIL. In other words,he's going to provide services to this terrorist organization.

BROWN: Authorities say they also found a three-page letter apparently written by Khan to his parents saying -- quote -- "Please make sure not to tell the authorities" about his plans to migrate to the Islamic State and saying he's upset that as an adult, he's obligated to pay taxes that would be used to kill his Muslim brothers and sisters.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And the criminal complaint also says that agents found a notebook containing detailed travel plans listing items such as a $4,000 ticket to Istanbul, cash for a hotel in Istanbul and bus routes, also a list of people Khan should reach out to in Istanbul, including someone in this criminal complaint who appeared to be a recruiter.

And, Jake, it's worth mentioning that he had a round-trip ticket, according to authorities, coming back this week. Some say that may have been a ploy for him to try to cover his tracks.

TAPPER: Interesting. Pamela Brown, thank you so much.

Joining me now is Shawn Henry, former executive assistant director of the FBI and president of CrowdStrike, a tech security and intel firm.

Shawn, good to see you. Thanks so much for coming. I appreciate it.

SHAWN HENRY, FORMER EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT FBI DIRECTOR: Good to be here.

TAPPER: So, according to the criminal complaint, as Pamela just explained, the suspect praised is in writing. He even made drawings. He's about to head overseas. But let me play devil's advocate here. Where's the crime? He didn't do anything yet.

HENRY: You have to look at what the elements are for this type of behavior, support material, support to terrorist group. We have had many cases in the physical world, the violent crime world

where people have planned to rob a bank, they have masks, they congregate, they go to the parking lot, we know they're going to go in. We don't actually allow them to get into the bank where somebody might be harmed or killed, but actually stop them.

There's been enough demonstrated to show that in fact that is what they were going to do. That's what happened here, I'm certain.

TAPPER: What does this tell us about -- this is not the first young person seized by federal authorities in the last month or so en route allegedly to helping ISIS. What does this tell us about the effectiveness of the ISIS propaganda machine?

HENRY: I think it demonstrates the nature of the threat today and that this is wide-ranging. It's serious and that ISIS and other terrorist groups have a say here with the ability for people to get online, to access this type of jihadi rhetoric.

They are going to be recruited. It really requires law enforcement, the FBI, the joint terrorism task forces to be on guard and constantly be trying to detect these threats domestically within the confines of the United States before they're actually acted out and somebody's harmed.

TAPPER: What's the enticement for these young people? Just to be part of a Cause. They're maybe religious and this is an opportunity to give more voice to that? Why would they do this?

HENRY: I think you hit two of them right there. Some of it might be copycat, somebody who is trying to make a name for themselves.

Somebody might have some maybe legitimate religious convictions and believe this is the paved way for them to reach their nirvana from a religious perspective. I think that law enforcement has to look at all of the potential motives. They have got to constantly use the spider web that they have to identify the trip wires, to identify somebody who's demonstrating this type of activity, somebody who's indicating they're going to harm American citizens here, and then use their capabilities and the judicial process to take them off the field to help save American lives.

TAPPER: I want to play a clip from the FBI director, James Comey, from "60 Minutes" last night talking about this threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: How many Americans are fighting in Syria on the side of the terrorists?

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: In the area of a dozen or so.

QUESTION: Do you know who they are?

COMEY: Yes.

QUESTION: Each and every one of them?

COMEY: I think of that dozen of so, I do. I hesitate only because I don't know what I don't know.

QUESTION: With American passports, how do you keep them from coming home and attacking the homeland?

COMEY: Ultimately, an American citizen, unless their passport is revoked, is entitled to come back. So, someone who's fight with ISIL with an American passport who wants to come back, we will track them very carefully.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The State Department says, of course, Shawn, as you know, that it has long had the authority to revoke passports. That doesn't sound like the American government is fully on top of these young people when they come back.

If we know who they are, can't we stop them at the airports before we get on -- they get on the plane to the United States? Are FBI agents casing their homes if we know who these dozen people are?

HENRY: Well, first, let me say that there's great coordination in the U.S. government between state, local, federal agencies at the joint terrorism task forces.

The State Department has representation along with a host of other agencies. In some of these cases, you may have people who are coming in on foreign passports as well, people who have traveled from Western Europe over to the Middle East, been trained there, been radicalized, perhaps, and then come back to the U.S. through countries where we have relationships.

The FBI also uses the no-fly list, where they have identified somebody that they believe is associated with a terrorist group, may have exhibited jihadi rhetoric, and they will actually put them on a no-fly list, so that they can't get on an airplane.

And in other cases, there might not be enough to actually take somebody off of the plane and when they come here, there's certainly enough concern to monitor their activities. Remember, Jake, there is a balance between civil liberties, civil rights and safety. And the FBI and law enforcement has to constantly balance that. We don't want to err on the wrong side where people are killed, but we have to maintain the civil liberties of people here in the U.S.

TAPPER: But knowing what you know from your time with the FBI, if James Comey, the director of the FBI, knows 12 Americans who are currently fighting -- I assume he meant specifically with ISIS, not just any of terrorist groups, al-Nusra, whatever -- but knows them, are those people's homes right now being staked out, or is the FBI keeping an eye on where they might return?

HENRY: Well, I can't speak specifically about what Director Comey was talking about, but I can tell you that the FBI will leave no stone unturned.

If there's some indication that somebody is training abroad and somebody is looking to do harm to American citizens, the FBI will use al little resources in its power, lawfully, judiciously, with its partners at the JTTF to pursue that and ensure that Americans aren't harmed.

It's a very, very difficult, resource-intensive process. It takes a lot of time and a lot of effort. But the American public requires it. We all require it as citizens. We need to step up and do this.

TAPPER: It's very disturbing. Shawn Henry, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Our world lead, ISIS gaining ground despite the constant barrage from the U.S.-led bombing campaign, the terrorist group just hours ago raising its flag over a key city on the Syrian-Turkish border while other ISIS fighters take aim at Baghdad, Iraq. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

Turning now to our world lead, the American-led coalition dominates the skies over Syria and Iraq. But despite two weeks of steady bombing, ISIS terrorist forces are advancing on the ground. In the south, ISIS mortar fire landed in Baghdad today, while in the north, the terrorist group raised its flag over sections of Kobani on the border with Turkey.

And ISIS is allegedly doing this with weapons originally meant for American allies to use. An E.U.-funded group named Conflict Armament Research says that ISIS often focuses its attacks on ammunition storage facilities and then ISIS uses the weaponry it captures for its own assaults.

So ISIS is often firing American bullets at America's allies.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is following the fight and he joins us live from Beirut -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, as you mentioned, it seems though in the search for Kalashnikov rounds for AK-47s, yes, ISIS are targeting Iraqi army facilities, but of course those are facilities supplied by that massive American effort to build the Iraqi army up not so long ago.

But this is one small, more historical perhaps part of the many problems appearing now three weeks in to the United States' more concerted effort against ISIS in Syria, where we're seeing many cracks already appearing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH (voice-over): It was never about perfect options. But after the world waited so long for U.S. action against ISIS, and in Syria, there's a lot of imperfect to go around here. Airstrikes without ground troops were a bomber's only option domestically.

But after nearly as many airstrikes as during the entire Pakistan drone campaign, things are going the wrong way on the ground. ISIS raised their flag in part of Kobani Monday, pressing against a vital part of Syria's border with Turkey.

In Iraq, they're pushing into the city of Ramadi. That brings them closer to the capital where Secretary Kerry's excitement to the new prime minister hasn't translated yet into Iraqi security forces taking back their towns from ISIS. In fact, one armed control group said over the weekend a lot of the bullets fired by ISIS used to belong to Iraqi security forces who are probably overwhelmed. And even diplomatically, the good news has soured.

A delicate coalition of Sunni Arab countries joined U.S. aircraft against ISIS. But Vice President Joe Biden offended many of them in this Harvard speech.

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our allies in the region were our largest problem in Syria. They poured hundreds of millions of dollars and tens -- thousands of tons of weapons into anyone who would fight against Assad. Except that the people who were being supplied were al Nusra and al Qaeda and the extremist elements of jihadists coming from other parts of the world.

WALSH: Vital ally Turkey whose troops are now at the border near Kobani and the Emirates were publicly outraged. And Biden's weekend was spent in damage control.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALSH: Jake, there's another issue, too. There's unfortunately, one of the side effects of this bombing campaign, particularly given some of it's focused on al Nusra's front, I think to al Qaeda, yes, but in the eyes of many Syrians, the most effective Syrian rebel force fighting the Syrian regime, well, that's made many sympathize with Nusra and in turn Nusra sympathizing potentially with ISIS. We're seeing Washington's attempt to change the battlefield ground in Syria actually making some Syrians, a small number, but some Syrians sympathize more with those who a few months ago they had deep enmity towards -- Jake.

TAPPER: Nick Paton Walsh, thank you so much.

It is nearly the sixth year of the Obama administration and the memoirs are piling up on bed stands across Washington, D.C. and the country.

The latest comes from former CIA chief and defense secretary, Leon Panetta. His book, "Worthy Fight: A Memoir of Leadership and Peace", will be available tomorrow. Panetta in the book is sharply critical of President Obama, writing that some of the president's decisions have made the situation in Iraq worse.

Another person with his own memoir is Ambassador Christopher Hill, who joins us now. He spent 33 years with the U.S. State Department. His book "Outpost: Life on the Frontlines of American Diplomacy." Hill's final posting was as ambassador to Iraq.

Ambassador, thank you so much for joining us.

I should say I read the book over the weekend. I enjoyed it very much. I am going to focus on the last few chapters about your posting in Iraq but people should read it because it is a very interesting life you have lead.

Ambassador, Leon Panetta told "USA Today" about the Islamist threat. Quote, "I think we're looking at kind of a 30-year war."

Do you agree?

CHRISTOPHER HILL, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO IRAQ: Well, I don't know if we're looking at a 30-year war, but we're certainly looking at something that's not going to be over in a couple of months. I mean, this is a long time in brewing.

I think we've really had some troubles dealing with it. After all, we go into Iraq in 2003 and for many countries in the region, what we did was to flip a Sunni-led country into a Shia-led country. And it's still, I think, a very open proposition where the Sunni world, and the Sunni world and the Arab world is every other country besides Iraq, basically. And the real question is whether they will accept a Shia- led Iraq.

So, certainly, this is a long-term proposition and I think the administration has its hands full.

TAPPER: In your book you write throughout about attempts of the United States to do something and it doesn't necessarily work out according to plan. You talk about that specifically in the Iraq posting when it comes to whether or not the U.S. should back Maliki or not. Now, we hear -- you just heard how sentiment on the ground, a small group of Syrians and Iraqis are finding sentiment and finding favor with al Nusra, the leaders of the Pakistani-Taliban, a group that includes roughly 100 jihadi organizations. Now, they say they're supporting ISIS.

Did you think when the American-led air strikes began that they would have this affect that we're starting to see of uniting all these Islamist groups that had been fighting until now?

HILL: Yes. I think some of this may be the reason why the vice president kind of undiplomatically -- if I can use that term -- spoke about some of the problems in the region. Clearly, the Obama administration was concerned about this. And that's why they made Maliki sort of a linchpin of the whole problem, going after the situation in Baghdad. Part of that was to assure the Sunnis in the region that we were onto the fact that Maliki was not God's gift to Iraq.

So, we tried to do that. But I think as this latest headline suggests, we have some problems convincing the Sunnis that they need to do something about their own Sunnis. And that has been a huge problem ever since this civil war erupted in Syria. I think in the United States, there was much too much of this notion

that somehow you have on the one hand this evil dictator and on the other hand, you have these wonderful people interested in democracy -- when in fact to a great extent, to a great extent, what we've seen in Syria is a sectarian knife fight and it has been a knife fight for some time.

TAPPER: Speaking of what Joe Biden had to say, the vice president, he faulted Turkey, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, for letting fighters go into Iraq and Syria, especially into Syria. I guess first of all, is what we said true? And second of all, how big a diplomatic problem did he create?

HILL: Well, on the latter point, I think as your piece suggested, he has some damage control to do.

How true it is, how central it is, that's another question. Certainly, we'd like to see more from all of these countries in terms of dealing with this ISIS threat.

And yet, they've all been very reticent. They all have their reasons for being careful about it. But I think really an important element of our diplomacy needs to be to get these countries on board.

But often when you sort of call out countries in public, I'm not sure that's probably the best way to do that.

TAPPER: But I'm kind of reading between the lines here of what you said, that it wasn't necessarily wrong what he said in terms of just -- as a factual matter?

HILL: I think you can read between the lines quite correctly there. It wasn't necessarily wrong. But we need to do something about it. And the question is whether calling them out publicly is the best way to do something about it.

TAPPER: All right. Ambassador Chris Hill, thank you. And good luck with your book. It's a good read.

Ahead on THE LEAD: a nurse testing positive for Ebola in Spain after treating an infected priest. How many health care workers in the U.S. are similarly at risk?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

We have some fresh sound right now. President Obama spoke just minutes ago with health officials about the threat of Ebola to this country. Let's take a listen to that sound.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All right. Good afternoon, everybody. I just had an opportunity to get a full briefing from my entire team across administrations -- across agencies, on the aggressive steps we are taking to fight the Ebola epidemic, to stop the epidemic at its source in West Africa, but also to make sure that we can do everything we can to prevent an outbreak here in the United States.

As I've said from the start of this outbreak, I consider this (AUDIO GAP) essentially a public health infrastructure in many of these areas that haven't had it before. And that requires enormous amount of effort. I'm very grateful for the people who are on the front lines making this work.

It's a reminder once again of American leadership but even with all the dedicated effort that our American personnel are putting in, they're going to be -- they need to be joined by professionals from other countries who are putting up similar effort and similar resources.

So, I hope they're going to be paying attention over the next several weeks so we can get on top of this.

All right? Thank you very much, everybody.

(CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: Well, I just explained to them that the nature of this disease, the good news is that it's not an airborne disease. We are familiar with the protocols that are needed to isolate and greatly reduce the risks of anybody catching this disease.

But it requires us to follow those protocols strictly. And that's exactly what we are in the process of doing. And the CDC is familiar with dealing with infectious diseases and viruses like this. We know what has to be done and we've got the medical infrastructure to do it. But this is an extraordinarily virulent disease when you don't follow the protocols.

And so, the key here is just to make sure that each step along the way, whether it's a hospital admissions desk, whether it is the doctors, the nurses, public health officials, that everybody has the right information. If they have the right information and they are following those protocols, then this is something that we're going to be able to make sure does not have the kind of impact here in the United States that a lot of people are worried about. But that requires everybody to make sure that they stay informed, most particularly we've got to make sure that our health workers are informed. You know, we're also going to be working on protocols to do additional passenger screening, both at the source and here in the United States.

All of these things make me confident that here in the United States, at least, we've -- the chances of an outbreak -- of an epidemic here are extraordinarily low. But let's keep in mind that as we speak, there are children on the streets dying of this disease, thousands of them. And so, obviously, my first job is we're taking care of the American people. (END VIDEO CLIP)