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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Deadly Delays In Dallas Ebola Case?; Ebola Test Negative On Deputy; Nephew: Duncan Was Treated Unfairly; Heated Kansas Race Could Swing Senate; Is Kim Jong Un's Little Sister In Charge?

Aired October 09, 2014 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Some breaking news now in our National Lead, some good news, actually, it was a false alarm.

But it is serving as a good example of the fear and perhaps the miseducation about the horrible Ebola virus that's out there right now. Texas health officials now say that the sheriff's deputy who was hospitalized yesterday was tested negative for Ebola.

He never had any direct contact with Thomas Duncan, the first man to die of Ebola in the United States in this outbreak. Meanwhile, Duncan's family is mourning and left with a lot of questions. Such as, why did Duncan die when every other Ebola patient treated in the United States so far has survived?

Our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, is live at the hospital in Dallas for us. Elizabeth, Mr. Duncan's nephew just issued a statement. What did he have to say?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the first time we've heard from him and he was very involved in his uncle's care, the first time we've heard from him since his uncle passed away.

Josephus Weeks said in the statement, "It is suspicious to us that all of the white patients survived and this one black patient passed away" and he noted that it took eight days to get him his medicine.

Assuming he's referring to that experimental medicine that other patients got immediately, but it took a little less than a week to get that medicine to his uncle.

TAPPER: Elizabeth, obviously the hospital has a response to these accusations. What did they have to say?

COHEN: They remained silent for a while, but just now they issued a response and they said that as soon as his positions determined that his condition warranted it, he got that experimental medication.

Now I will say that I've spoken to many experts on this and they say get the medication as soon as you can so it's not clear why was it a good thing for Mr. Duncan to wait about a week for his medication?

I don't know why that's the case. But you know, each patient different and we don't know the particulars of his case. The hospital also said -- addressed a question about a blood donation. Several Ebola patients have received blood donated by a survivor to help boost their antibodies.

And they said that the blood type - that Mr. Duncan's blood type was not compatible with the blood donors. We don't know how thorough of a job they did. I've reached out to ask the hospital that question and haven't heard back yet.

TAPPER: Obviously, Elizabeth, there are a lot of differences between Duncan's case and some of the other cases. It's also -- it seem obvious to me that one of the differences is that that Texas hospital where he was treated is not one of the four hospitals -- the hospitals being in Georgia, Washington, D.C., or outside Washington, D.C., Nebraska and Montana that are set up to deal with an outbreak like this. Could that possibly be one of the reasons?

COHEN: You know, not all hospitals are good at everything. Some hospitals are better than other hospitals at certain things. So those four hospitals, which includes Emory in Nebraska, which have taken cared of Ebola patients, they are sort of more invested in this area.

Both sort of psychically and financially, so yes, that could have made a difference. You know, the basics of treating Ebola are not that complicated. You really just need to keep someone hydrated and in fancy medical terms, it's called fluid management.

But the extras, getting them that experimental medication, going to the FDA to get that, getting them a blood donor, that's more complicated and in some hospitals might be better than others at handling those details and handling them in an aggressive way.

TAPPER: And Elizabeth, some good news if it can be called that in this Ebola story is that sheriff's deputy who we covered yesterday, who was worried about having contracted Ebola, it turns out that his test came back negative.

COHEN: Right. His test came back negative because as a federal official said, you know, of course, he didn't have an exposure to Ebola and so he is not going to contract Ebola. He was not exposed to Mr. Duncan and he never had a fever. So those were, you know, sort of tell-tell clients that this test was going to be negative.

TAPPER: Elizabeth Cohen in Dallas, thank you so much.

For Thomas Duncan's fiancee, Louise, of course, this is no good story. It's a horrific story and she has a double dose of despair. She is not only mourning the loss of the love of her life, she is also burdened by concerns over whether she or her son or her nephews contracted the virus during Duncan's stay at her apartment.

They, of course, are all quarantined now and joining me now to discuss at all is Pastor George Mason of the Wilshire Baptist Church in Dallas. He has been counseling Louise and her family through this horrific ordeal.

Pastor Mason, thank you for joining us. How is Louise? How are her family members holding up?

PASTOR GEORGE MASON, WILSHIRE BAPTISH CHURCH: Well, Louise and the three boys that are with her in quarantine are managing day to day. In fact, I would say they are managing minute to minute because as you can imagine, they are tested twice a day to see if they become symptomatic.

And so every single day is about sort of holding their breath and getting themselves ready for the next test to see that they are OK so far so good, and they are trying to manage their grief at the very same time.

TAPPER: That must be very, very trying. You've told us that the conditions where they are staying are much improved than when they were stuck in that apartment and moved about a week ago.

In addition to their grief, in addition to going through these medical tests, they must be very nervous about whether or not they contracted Ebola.

MASON: Well, they really are, but I mean, they are also getting good information about the fact that every day there is a better chance that they don't have Ebola and there's no guarantee that just because they were exposed that they are actually going to become symptomatic.

So we try to keep that balance in their expectation. But, yes, you can just imagine if you were in that position, that they are terribly nervous day-by-day.

TAPPER: Pastor, we just received that strongly worded statement from Duncan's nephew, Josephus Weeks, where he essentially accuses the hospital of treating his uncle unfairly because he was black.

Obviously, there are many questions about the treatment that Mr. Duncan received, whether more could have been done. I read that the Texas Department of State Health Services is considering launching an independent investigation to get some answers.

Has the family been in touch with that agency and what questions do they want answered?

MASON: Let's distinguish between the families now. Josephus is part of Duncan's family of origin and Louise Trowe, of course, is his fiancee and the mother of his son who is here in Texas. So this is the family with whom I am dealing.

And in their case, they have tremendous regret and questions about his care as well and how the decisions were made about it. But rather than making accusations, they are letting the investigative process play out.

They wonder themselves some of the same things like any of us who go through grief, they are asking all of the what if questions and that has to do with themselves, with Mr. Duncan, with the hospital, with all of those who have been in authority. But I will say that they have been assured that there will be an investigation that will take place.

TAPPER: So they have been in touch with authorities who say that there will be an investigation?

MASON: They have been, yes, but that's not happening right now and what we are trying to do is help them focus on the future and on their own condition.

It's best in these circumstances because of their particular vulnerability for them to focus on their own health and on the future because these are things that they control. Not something they can't control.

TAPPER: Texas State Health Department officials announced today and this is a bit of an uncomfortable question for me to ask even, but they announced that Duncan will be cremated. Obviously not every religion believes in cremation. How does Louise feel about that decision from authorities?

MASON: Louise is a nurse assistant and so she has an understanding of the medical necessity of that. She regrets it and she and her son both would have preferred that it not be the case. But she accepts that that's the way it is.

And I would make a distinction between religious tradition and cultural tradition. There is nothing in her religious tradition, which actually happens to be mine because she is a member of our church that says that this couldn't happen.

But the Liberian culture is much more used to having a body to bury and so she definitely regrets that that will not be the case.

TAPPER: Pastor, George Mason, thank you. God bless you. Please tell the family that we are all thinking of them and praying for them.

MASON: I surely will. Thank you.

TAPPER: Coming up, it could all come down to this. Kansas, home of the hottest Senate race in the country, is a little known independent candidate, the Democrats only hope of keeping the Republicans from grabbing the Senate?

Plus, Kim Jong-Un's mysterious disappearance. Is he sick? Is someone else running the country? Today we could get the answer as a special anniversary celebration in North Korea. Will Kim Jong-Un show up?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to The Lead. The Politics Lead now, in less than a month, the control of the U.S. Senate could flip into Republicans' hands, could.

That would allow the GOP to set the legislative agenda throughout the final two years of the Obama presidency and position itself for the presidential election in 2016. But in this midterm election, reality is sometimes proving stranger than fiction especially one specific plot twist that would undoubtedly upset Frank Underwood from "House of Cards."

But surprises abound, Mr. Underwood, especially in Kansas, which scandals Olivia Pope would no doubt find frustrating.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't do my job. I can't run your campaign.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The news cycle will change. They'll find something else to chew on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: With Democrats facing near impossible terrain and some bad math, it may be time for them all to take Vice President Celina Meyer's advice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't tell me how to panic. I know how to freak out, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A main reason for these surprises and freak outs this week on both sides of the aisle, control of the Senate could come down to a mystery man, an independent millionaire and a relative unknown named Greg Orman.

A new CNN/ORC poll shows he's in a dead heat with long-term Republican Senator Pat Roberts after Democrats dropped their candidate to basically make room for Orman. But no one knows how he would vote, really, if he makes it to Washington.

CNN chief congressional correspondent, Dana Bash, is just back from the sun flower state. Dana, it's amazing that this race with a long- term Republican incumbent in a deep red state like Kansas could be so competitive.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is so amazing. You love political trivia. Fact for you, it's been more than 80 years since there has been anything other than a Republican representing Kansas in the Senate.

But it is Orman taking advantage of sky-high anti-Washington feeling and anti-politician sentiment and the fact that the long-time GOP senator is on the ropes for losing touch with voters back home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BASH (voice-over): Republican Pat Roberts is fighting his unexpectedly tough fight for re-election with a blunt reality. Who controls the Senate could ride on his whim. SENATOR PAT ROBERTS (R), KANSAS: A vote for Pat Roberts is a vote for a Republican majority. A vote for Greg Orman is a vote to continue the Barack Obama and Harry Reid agenda.

BASH: Businessman, Greg Orman, was registered as a Democrat in the past, but is now an independent, who has donated to and voted for candidates in both parties. The Democratic candidate dropped out of this race.

GREG ORMAN (I), KANSAS SENATE CANDIDATE: I've tried both parties and like a lot of Kansans, I have been disappointed.

BASH: To win in ruby red, Kansas, Roberts is trying to paint Orman as a Democrat in hiding pounding that repeatedly at this debate.

ROBERTS: This man is a liberal Democrat. I don't know why you can't come clean and be proud of it and say I'm a liberal Democrat.

ORMAN: If I win, I'm not going to support either Harry Reid or Mitch McConnell for majority leader. The senator can say that over and over again, but it doesn't make it so.

BASH: Perhaps the biggest news is that Orman was even here at a scheduled public event. He hasn't had many lately. He tweets after the fact photos of his campaign stops without press there to ask him questions.

Strategy in this final stretch is to keep the focus on the incumbent and do no harm to himself, mostly on the airwaves with ads like this.

ORMAN: I'm a businessman who solves problems every day.

BASH: Orman did talk to reporters post-debate where we try to clear up the key question. Who will he caucus with if the Senate is split 50-49, and he determines control, no dice?

(on camera): Don't you owe the voters of Kansas an answer on who you are going to be with because it's possible that if you win, could hold the balance of power in your hands.

ORMAN: Well, I sort of reject the premise of that question. I think it's a great thing for Kansas. I think it's a great opportunity for Kansas to define the agenda in the United States Senate.

BASH (voice-over): As for Roberts, he's trying to shed his out-of- touch image that got him into political trouble in the first place.

(on camera): Why are you having such a fight? What does this say about you because you are the incumbent?

ROBERTS: I am going to win campaign. We will win this race and we will because we're having every leader from the Republican Party.

BASH (voice-over): The GOP cavalry is coming from all corners. He's already had appearances with Jeb Bush, Sarah Palin, and John McCain. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are coming, too. ROBERTS: They know me and they know my record and they understand me and they trust me. So the road to a Republican majority runs right through Kansas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BASH: Now, Republican groups from all corners are reluctantly starting to pour money into that red state. I'm told that the Kansas big based Koch brothers who have so far mostly sat out of the race are poised to step up their efforts to help Roberts and others, including the Chamber of Commerce, Jake, told me that they are going to go big soon.

TAPPER: Fascinating race. Another race that is fascinating in South Dakota where Democrats thought it was gone. Even Harry Reid said something about that race. The Democratic senatorial campaign committee now talking about spending a million dollars to make sure the Republican doesn't win. Is that real?

BASH: It is real because they figure, why not? South Dakota is not an expensive state to advertise in. They are going to put about $1 million in, they say. We'll see if they get to that point.

But in any even that's a lot of money in a chief state and the dynamic is that you have three pretty strong candidates, a Democrat, a Republican, and an independent who was a long-time member of Congress, Larry Pressler.

So what the Democrats are doing is they are trying to shake up the race. They are throwing the money in. Democratic sources I've talked to insist that they have always planned, if it was a three-way tie, if you will, at this point to do this in the last three weeks to try to take down the Republican.

Again, it could be a Kansas kind of situation because Larry Pressler, it's possible that he's the independent that he could if he wins caucus with the Democrats.

TAPPER: Right, former Republican senator who announced the support for President Obama not long ago.

BASH: Exactly.

TAPPER: Dana Bash, thank you so much. Wolf Blitzer is here with a preview of "THE SITUATION ROOM." What have you got?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": We have a lot on ISIS. Coming up, the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, the chairman, Ed Royce is going to be joining us.

We are going to talk about what's going on and a lot on the Ebola crisis, not only in the United States, but around the world. Mike Rawlings, the mayor of Dallas. We got Anthony Fauci, the head of the Infectious Diseases Program at NIH and our own Sanjay Gupta. So we got a lot of news coming up.

TAPPER: Sounds great, look forward to it. Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much.

Coming up, is he hurt? Did he flip on the mob? Is it the belly ache heard around the world? With the sun about to rise in North Korea, could a national holiday finally be the day that Kim Jong-Un comes out of hiding?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. In the Buried Lead now, to the candid, there are really so many bizarre things about North Korean leader, Kim Jong-Un, it's difficult to rank them.

But his absence from public view is starting to creep up the list. Where has he been? The rumors have ranged from troubling to hilarious. Does he have gout? Did his ankles crack? Is he freebasing Swiss cheese?

Is his little sister really in charge? So imagine how crazy the headlines will get if the dear leader does not show up in the next few hours to mark a major national holiday in that country.

Joining us now is Jamie Metzl, senior fellow on the Atlantic Council who served on President Clinton's National Security Council. He is the author of "Genesis Code."

Jamie, thanks for joining us. Do we really know what if anything is wrong with Kim Jong-Un?

JAMIE METZL, FORMER CLINTON ADMINISTRATION NSC OFFICIAL: We don't know. We know about five weeks ago there was an image of him limping so that's why people say maybe his ankle is hurt.

We know that he's big and getting bigger and fatter and fatter the longer he's been in power so there could be gout or other things and then there are rumors going around that it could be some kind of coup.

So we really don't have a lot of information and what we're left doing is the kind of criminology that you, Jake, were referencing. People looking at pictures, will he or won't he show up at this event? He's already missed some major events so we don't have a huge amount of information.

TAPPER: And what's the speculation about his little sister and whether she might be pulling some of the strings? What do we know about her?

METZL: We know that it's his younger sister. She's spent some time in Switzerland, but like everybody else in this family. We don't know a great deal. She's been showing up in different photographs, different images.

And again, like the old Soviet days, where somebody stands in relation to the leader is often seen as important. But there have been reports over these last weeks that in his absence, whatever that means, she's signing off on some types of documents and other things.

TAPPER: Interesting. Of course, Kim Jong-Un had his powerful uncle executed a year ago.

METZL: Right.

TAPPER: A possible move to cement his power. But is it -- in some way, could that have backfired on him?

METZL: Well, it could be. There's an organization called the Organization and Guidance Department that was created by Kim Jong-Un's father.

That's a very, very powerful organization. There have been rumors and all these are rumors that maybe some people in that organization are moving against Kim Jong-Un.

The key thing is, we just really don't know. I mean, there are reports all over. There have been reports earlier in the year that he had had his ex-girlfriend executed and then she showed up and then the uncle was executed.

There were reports that he was fed to the dogs, which looked like they are probably not true. So there's a lot of misinformation. We'll see what happens at the party anniversary, which is just coming up.

But even if he doesn't show up, that is still not determinative. But having said that, a lot of weird things have happened over the last couple of weeks, there were these high ranking party members came and showed up in Seoul for the Asian games.

In Pyongyang there had been restrictions even greater restrictions on mobility. The North Koreans told the Europeans, they wanted to have a dialogue on human rights and then China has been criticising the North Koreans uncharacteristically calling them flip floppers.

And so there is a lot of issues that are at play now and we'll see what happens, but it certainly as always very interesting.

TAPPER: Very interesting and bizarre, and of course, North Korea, a horribly repressive country with nukes. So the power vacuum could be very troubling. Jamie Metzl, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Make sure to follow me on Twitter @jaketapper and also @theleadcnn. That's for THE LEAD today. I'm Jake Tapper. I now turn you over to one Mr. Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM" right next door -- Mr. Blitzer.