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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Turkey Allows Kurdish Fighters Into Syria; Candidate Under Fire Over Wages; Interview with Eric Holder
Aired October 20, 2014 - 16:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: From one grim story to another, a harrowing turn in the heartland where police say they may have stumbled upon a serial killer. Police in Hammond, Indiana, arrested Darren Vann for the death of a 19-year-old woman Afrikka Hardy at a Motel 6. Authorities say Vann, who is a registered sex offender in Texas, then led them to six more bodies in nearby Gary, Indiana, all of the women, their corpses littered across abandoned buildings and decaying houses.
And here with more details, CNN correspondent Miguel Marquez.
Miguel, it's clear police had no indication that they had apprehended a possible serial killer. How did they catch him?
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they were in part lucky. It was also the woman that you referenced in the intro there, Afrikka Hardy, he met her through the Web site Backpage.com. She -- it's not clear whether she was a prostitute or others were. There is a lot of reporting and indication that one or all of them were.
He met her through Backpage.com. They arranged a meeting and during their meeting in that Motel 6, somebody who helped arrange that meeting between the two started to receive strange text messages from Ms. Hardy. She became concerned about her. The text messages stopped. That's when she sent a friend over, a male over to the hotel. That's when they found Ms. Hardy and very quickly then police were able to recover the phone, get a phone number off of it and trace Mr. Vann to an address in Gary. Once they picked him up, he began to sing and told them these horrible stories and was able to leave with three people and then another three. Horrible. Jake.
TAPPER: So, we are told, Miguel, that not all of the victims have even been identified yet by the late county coroner's office in Indiana. What do we know about the victims right now, the ones that have been identified?
MARQUEZ: It's tough. From what we understand, these are people who were living on the margins of society. They were not -- these were not wealthy people, these were not very established people. It does sound that some, if not all of them, were advertising on backpage.com, sort of a craigslist, that catch-all. But there a lot of - there is a lot of prostitution done through backpage.com. And it is possible that some of these individuals came into crossed them through that way. We did speak to the ex-boyfriend of Afrika Hardy who said this was an incredibly kind woman. He's in Aurora, Colorado. She was trying to get her life together. She was originally from Chicago. It was - and there is also reporting that Ms. Hardy may have been pregnant at the time that she was strangled and killed. Jake?
TAPPER: Miguel Marquez, thank you. It was a tragic story in Indiana.
New details on the shooting that unleashed fury in the streets of Ferguson, Ferguson. What happened in the moments just before Michael Brown was killed? Will it determine whether police officer Darren Wilson gets indicted? The attorney general of the United States weighs in. Next.
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TAPPER: Welcome back to "THE LEAD." I'm Jake Tapper. And other national news, there were violent clashes with police, fires set upon personal property. At one point things got so bad, police officers used teargas to disperse the crowd. But this didn't take place at a protest over a police shooting or about social injustice. This was the booze-fueled scene at a pumpkin festival in Keene, New Hampshire.
The rioters were, mostly out-of-control college students from Keene State College. Some threw glass bottles at police. Others set fires and tore down street signs.
In a news conference just moments ago, police announced dozens of arrests, and they say more could come as their investigation continues. And while the event has been characterized by some media outlets as rowdy kids just letting off a little steam, others say they see a clear double standard in how Keene rioters -- mainly white college students -- are being cast, compared to the rioters in Ferguson, Missouri, who were predominantly African-American.
The contrast was instantly mocked on Twitter. One user posted this photo with words that have been used to describe protesters in Ferguson who rioted after the shooting of an unarmed teenager. Side by side with words used to describe the riots in Keene. Thugs versus rowdy. "Washington Post" reporter Wesley Lowery, who was arrested while covering the Ferguson protests, tweeted, "don't these people have jobs? Where are the white fathers? What will end this corrosive culture of violence?" He then linked to a "Boston Globe" article about the festival.
Now, while those criticisms of the media portrayals may or may not be fair depending on your point of view, what is clear is that the wounds of Ferguson are still very much open. Perhaps even more so with the revelation about forensic evidence in the case. A source tells CNN the evidence shows Michael Brown's blood was found on the gun, on the uniform and in the police cruiser of Officer Darren Wilson, who fatally shot the unarmed teen two months ago. That evidence seems to back up some of Wilson's account, perhaps. He claimed that he and Brown struggled over his gun in the back of his police car and that he feared for his life. Joining me now, CNN justice reporter Evan Perez. Evan, you managed to get some of the details on the evidence. What can you tell us and does it necessarily back one version of the story versus the other?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, it does seem to back up at least one part of this officer's account, which is that there was a confrontation, that he felt perhaps that he was in danger, and that he had a right to use deadly force.
What it doesn't explain is everything that happened outside of the cruiser. It doesn't explain when he starts shooting, and the fatal shot that occurs that takes Michael Brown's life.
TAPPER: And you also today had an exclusive interview with U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder. You asked him about a wide range of issues, including the federal investigation into the Michael Brown shootings. What did he say?
PEREZ: Jake, he was basically trying to manage expectations here. People on the streets in Ferguson want to see an indictment. He was basically trying to manage the expectations of these people to say, look, we're going to do an independent investigation. But we're not assured of the outcome. And here's some more of what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: My hope would be that people will understand that certainly with regard to the federal government, that we looked at the facts, looked at the law, had to deal with that high standard and came to an appropriate conclusion. When we do that.
PEREZ: If there isn't an indictment against this officer, would you feel that it was the right decision?
HOLDER: I think what we'll have to do as we always do in civil rights investigations from the federal perspective is look at what the state has done and then make a determination as to whether or not the state investigation was adequate.
PEREZ: Turning to national security for a bit, can you give me your sense of where we are in trying to make sure that we can get an early read on American jihadists before they go and do something?
HOLDER: Our estimate now is that there are probably about 12 people or about a dozen people or so who are in the Syria/Iraq area. We have dozens of investigations that are under way about other people who have either gone or are planning to go. This is something that is a priority for us at the Justice Department, and at the FBI, working in conjunction with our U.S. attorneys, where we're trying to engage in preventive activities as well.
PEREZ: You're one of the longest-serving members of the Obama administration, of the cabinet. There was some really strong criticism recently from Leon Panetta, who led the CIA and the Pentagon. He called into question the president's ability to make decisions, especially on Syria. You were in some of those meetings. Did you see an indecisive president? How do you feel about the criticism that's been made?
HOLDER: I have to really disagree with his characterization of the president. The president is a deliberate person in an appropriate way. But he's also resolute once he makes up his mind. So I think that what Leon said in the book is unfortunate, and frankly I don't think it's something that a former cabinet member should do while the president you served is still in office. That's not something that I would even consider doing.
PEREZ: Would you give me a sense of what you think your biggest failure has been during your time here?
HOLDER: I think the inability to pass reasonable gun safety laws after the Newtown massacre is, for me, something that I take personally as a failure and something that I think we as a society should take as a failure.
PEREZ: In the same vein, what would you consider your biggest success during your time here?
HOLDER: I'm happy with where we are with regard to our criminal justice reform issues, the stands that we've taken against voter suppression efforts, the attempts to include the LGBT community in ways that it has not been before and to knock down those final vestiges of discrimination. It's a whole variety of things I'm really proud of the people of this Justice Department and the way they've done them over the past six years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PEREZ: Jake, what you're hearing there is the attorney general trying to make sure that people remember his legacy as he sees it, not whatever comes later after he leaves, including perhaps on the streets of Ferguson.
TAPPER: He is one of the closest to the president of all the members of the cabinet, and sometimes when he is criticized (ph), people see him as the alter ego of the president, whether talking about race or whether talking about Leon Panetta. But what does he see as his larger legacy? Is it the criminal justice reform?
PEREZ: Yeah, he definitely sees himself as the guy who helped reinvigorate the Justice Department's Civil Rights Division, which as you know, was the scene of a lot of controversy during the Bush administration. That is one of the first things he said when he walked into that building in 2009, and I think that's what you see from him as he's looking back on his six years.
TAPPER: Interesting. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
The president is still insisting there will be no troops on the ground. No U.S. troops on the ground in the war against ISIS. But the U.S. does have weapons on the ground, air-dropped to our allies. Will they be enough to beat back ISIS? We'll go live to the frontlines next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. Our World Lead now, ISIS terrorists are attacking at least 15 sites in northern Iraq, a coordinated strike that included a suicide bombing attack on Mosul's Dam.
On a different front though, ISIS maybe on the defensive. The United States is trying to turn up the heat on ISIS in Kobani, northern Syria. A new round of American attacks and aid from the air may help roll ISIS back. That's the hope anyway.
CNN's senior international correspondent, Nick Paton Walsh is on the Turkish side of the border. Nick, what is the U.S. military and the coalition, what are they delivering to the Kurds in Kobani?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Twenty seven pallets overnight on three C-130 aircrafts. Iraqi Kurdish aid we're told that included AK-47 weapons, rounds for those guns and a ton of medical aid.
A doctor inside the city rejoicing frankly that they could finally treat patients he hadn't been able to look after. One of those pallets fell off course and one of the six airstrikes around Kobani the coalition executed was used to destroy it to make sure it didn't fall into ISIS hands.
But today, the Kurds finally answered by Washington directly bypassing Turkish concerns and delivering what was needed -- Jake.
TAPPER: The lack of serious participation in this coalition by Turkey, which is right on the border there, obviously, you're in Turkey right now, has bewildered many individuals, many academics and many running this policy. President Obama called Turkey's leader before the air drop. Are the Turks changing their policy at all?
WALSH: I think they're manipulating it slightly to allow less room for criticism. Turkey has dealt with the Syrian civil war for three years, accepted over 1 million refugees. This town where I am standing is swimming with refugees trying to find a new life.
And of course, they consider those Syrian Kurds fighting in Kobani to be allied with terrorists. Today, they said strangely they never wanted Kobani to fall. That's not what people have been seeing really where their tanks sat on the hill watching the fight and ISIS almost kicked the Kurds out of Kobani a week ago.
But did say they would allow into Kobani, Iraqi Kurdish Peshmerga fighters from Iraq to go through Turkish territory and enter that city. That's a huge move on their part. That's Turkey basically saying they'll allow Kurds they consider to be terrorists -- that could open a new front against ISIS.
Remember Washington always complaining they don't have the ground forces to back up whatever they do with the airstrikes. They might have that now inside Syria if the Syrian Kurds and the Peshmerga unify effectively and can take the fight to ISIS rather than being on the defensive -- Jake.
TAPPER: Nick, a few weeks ago, it seemed as though Kobani was about to fall. The last we heard, 80 percent of Kobani had been reclaimed by the Kurdish fighters. What's the situation on the ground right now in Kobani?
WALSH: The latest we heard from a senior Kurd inside Kobani was about 70 percent was held by the Kurds. We've seen a remarkable turnaround, Jake, in the U.S. policy. Remember a week ago, they were kind of briefing that really Kobani wasn't that strategically significant.
We should brace ourselves for its fall then a massive wave of airpower, 60 airstrikes in four days, 135 in total. I think many see -- the U.S. saw an easy potential win to seize an opportunity out of a crisis.
Rather than let Kobani fall, they piled in the airpower and perhaps gave the Kurds what they needed to hold the city and perhaps boost for any thinking that ISIS simply cannot be stopped.
TAPPER: All right, Nick Paton Walsh, thank you, my friend, be safe, please. Wolf Blitzer is now here with a preview of "THE SITUATION ROOM." We just heard Nick Paton Walsh telling us what's happening on the ground in the war against ISIS.
You're going to have President Obama's deputy national security adviser for strategic communication, Benjamin Rhodes on your show to talk about U.S. needs to do, wants to do to win this war.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Yes, we have a lot of good questions for him because this potentially could be some sort of turning point. We'll see what's going on from the U.S. perspective. We'll get a little different perspective from Congressman Ed Royce. He is the chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. He's going to be joining us as well.
I want to get an appreciation of, are they happy or not happy, for example, with the NATO ally, Turkey? Is Turkey doing the right thing? Are they still stalling? As you know, there's no great love between the Turks and the Kurds. There's a big problem right there.
We'll see what the Turks are up to from the U.S. perspective. Of course, we'll take a closer look at the latest on the Ebola scare that's continuing even as we speak.
TAPPER: All right, Wolf Blitzer with a preview of "THE SITUATION ROOM." that's coming up in 9 minutes. We'll watch it, of course. Wolf Blitzer, thank you so much.
Republicans are dishing up some meaty claims against the Democratic challenger for Kentucky's Senate seat. One issue involve her family's restaurant. I'll explain next.
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TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD. In our Politics Lead now, as you can see by our set, it's just over two weeks until Election Day. Today, we're going to follow one of the most bitter, hard-fought Senate races in the country, Kentucky Senate race.
The secretary of state there, Alison Lundergan Grimes, is trying to unseat the Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, the man who may find himself running the Senate if he can survive her challenge. The race though may not hinge on such major issues instead it might come down to in some ways a flap over burgers and wages. CNN investigative reporter, Chris Frates traveled to the blue grass state for this report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS FRATES, CNN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER (voice-over): In her race to defeat Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell, Alison Lundergan Grimes, has barnstormed Kentucky, talking up her support for raising the minimum wage.
ALISON LUNDERGAN GRIMES (D), KENTUCKY SENATE CANDIDATE: I'm fighting for all Kentuckians, all working Americans across this nation. I don't believe $7.25 an hour raises a family of four above the poverty level.
FRATES: So you might be surprised to find out that Grimes' family business pays some tipped employees only minimum wage. Here in Kentucky, servers at Hugh Jass Burgers making just $2.13 an hour. That's the minimum wage for tipped employees and it hasn't budged since the '90s.
The minimum wage for workers who aren't making tips is $7.25 an hour, a figure that last increased five years ago. So what gives? We went to Kentucky to find out.
GRIMES: For me, it's about making sure that hardworking Kentuckians have a bright future and that future includes having not just a minimum wage but a living wage.
FRATES: And that the restaurant owned by Grimes' family, a living wage includes one that depends on tips.
GRIMES: My family is not in this race. I'm on the ballot.
FRATES: What Grimes doesn't mention is that while she doesn't own the restaurant, she did do some of its legal work, signing the business incorporation documents and representing the restaurant in a lawsuit.
The minimum wage isn't the only issue where the restaurant doesn't practice what Grimes preaches. On the campaign trail, she's been an advocate for women's issues. Her camp even accused Republicans of sexism.
GRIMES: I am the Kentucky woman, who my Republican colleagues here in this state refer to as an empty dress.
FRATES: But check out what's on the menu at Hugh Jass Burgers.
(on camera): Charlottes rack, short to be votes biggest rack, ribs named after her mom and Abby's huge ass, a burger named after her sister. And they sell souvenir items like this "check out my buns" apron.
(voice-over): When we tried to ask Grimes about her family's use of the phrases, she walked away surrounded by a security, leaving us holding the greasy burger bag.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRATES: With two weeks to go, the race remains tight. But national Democrats have started putting their money elsewhere, not a great sign for Grimes -- Jake.
TAPPER: Chris Frates, thank you so much. This programming note, it's one of the hottest and tightest governors' races in the country. Tomorrow, CNN will bring you "Debate Night in America" live from Jacksonville, Florida. I'll be moderating the final debate between Florida's current governor, Rick Scott, a Republican, and former Governor Charlie Crist, the Democrat. Please join us tomorrow, 7:00 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.
Make sure to follow me on Twitter @jaketapper. Check out our show page at cnn.com/thelead for videos, blogs, extras. That's it for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper. I turn you now over to Wolf Blitzer. He is right next door in "THE SITUATION ROOM" -- Wolf.
