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The Lead with Jake Tapper

National Protests; Magazine Apologizes for Rape Story; Chokehold Victim's Daughter Speaks

Aired December 05, 2014 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Another series of protests are already under way, the third night in a row from coast to coast.

I'm Jake Tapper. This is THE LEAD.

The national lead. He died at the hands of the NYPD. Now, as more people crowd the streets protesting the death of Eric Garner, we will ask his daughter to tell us about her dad.

And it's their job to try to help people who need their help. But when paramedics arrived on the scene in Staten Island July 17, they left Eric Garner there motionless, lying on the pavement. So whatever happened to those EMTs who maybe missed a chance to save Eric Garner's life? We looked into it for you.

Plus, a huge reversal. In a shocking magazine story, a University of Virginia first-year student said she was drugged and gang-raped. But now "Rolling Stone" magazine apologizing. What led to this remarkable turnaround?

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We are going to begin today with our national lead and what seems to be a possible tipping point in race relations in this country. It might be too soon to call it a movement. But the second night of protests over Eric Garner's death were big bigger, larger crowds. More cities saw demonstrations. More streets and highways were shut down.

More and more Americans were railing against a justice system that they seem to think is tipped against minorities. Even the last Republican president, George W. Bush, expressed confusion in an interview with Candy Crowley over how a grand jury did not indict the police officer who put Eric Garner in a chokehold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The verdict was hard to understand. But I haven't seen all the details. But it's sad that race continues to play such a kind of emotional, divisive part of life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You're looking right now at live pictures out of Chicago, where protesters are already starting to come together for this third night of demonstrations.

If you were working late in Manhattan last night and looked down the street, chances are you saw swarms of protesters tangled among the headlights. Take away the neon buzz of the billboards and the glare of iPhones in the dark and the sit-ins, die-ins, chanting, mock coffins. All conjured images of the past, Selma, Birmingham, Montgomery.

The NYPD says it arrested 219 people, most on violations such as disorderly conduct. NYC officials have promised a sweeping array of reforms to try to fix any problems, changes that include police retraining and body cams on officers fanned throughout the city.

Some are being tested today. But New York is hardly the only metropolis being met with protests.

Jason Carroll's been following demonstrations around the country.

Jason, I see a gathering behind you now. But what are authorities and protesters expecting tonight? Is this going to get even bigger?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We will have to wait and see.

I can tell you that demonstrators are using social media. They are much more organized. They are planning to be in downtown. They're planning to be right here in Times Square, Jake, as the city gets ready for another night of protests.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (voice-over): Anger over the grand jury decision to not prosecute officer Daniel Pantaleo unleashing fury from coast to coast, as protesters marched Thursday night.

Standoffs, but no serious violence in Dallas, Boston, Chicago and New York, protesters screaming for justice, demanding change in how law enforcement deals with people of color.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's happening in every city, every town. It's happening here in Pittsburgh.

CARROLL: In New York, the Brooklyn Bridge shut down by protesters and they brought Times Square to a standstill. Hours of peaceful protests there escalating, eventually reaching a tipping point, the NYPD cracking down, 219 arrested overnight, including several after a massive scuffle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was all pretty violent and they were just laying people down on the ground against the cars.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were very much overly aggressive. What a surprise. When has NYPD not been overly aggressive to us?

CARROLL: Elsewhere in New York City, demonstrators staged a so-called die-in in Brooklyn lying in the middle of Atlantic Avenue. An eerie silence descended as protesters who had cardboard coffins stopped chanting.

In Washington, D.C., protesters flooding the streets, at one point blocking the busy 14th Street Bridge. In Boston, the annual downtown Christmas tree lighting turned into a protest, while, in Chicago, they swarmed Lake Shore Drive. More demonstrations planned for tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And, again, Jake, most of the demonstrations last night were peaceful, but that does not mean these protesters are not angry. It does not mean that they are not frustrated, they say. They will keep marching -- Jake.

TAPPER: Jason Carroll, thank you so much.

We have seen over and over that cell phone video where Eric Garner is put in a chokehold by officer Pantaleo. But the piece of tape that's been getting less attention shows emergency workers from Richmond University Hospital arriving on the scene. It is minutes before they check his pulse and the EMTs appear to do little else to try and save Garner.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to help, all right? We're here to help you. We're getting the stretcher. All right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Those four EMS workers were initially suspended without pay immediately after the incident.

We have learned that they are all back on the job. Two of them are restricted to -- quote -- "nondirect patient care assignment" within the hospital.

Melissa Mark-Viverito is speaker of the New York City Council and joins me live.

Madam Speaker, thank you for joining me.

I want to talk about police in a second. But when you look at the second tape and the actions or inactions of the emergency medical workers, what are your thoughts?

MELISSA MARK-VIVERITO, SPEAKER, NEW YORK CITY COUNCIL: It is disturbing, clearly, the images of Eric Garner dying and being killed before our eyes.

This is -- again, we are getting the information. We have to understand what this review process was about. It's all about accountability. The same way we expect accountability of our police department, we have to expect accountability of our EMS workers, who basically do have the lives of individuals in their hands.

And what is the training that is happening here? The fact that absolutely nothing was being done for Eric Garner, as you can see in that image, all the time that it was before us, is disturbing. They are supposed to be administering some level of care. Even unions that represent the EMS workers were saying the same thing, that there should have been some level of service, right, being administered to him at that time.

So this is disturbing. We're going to definitely monitor it and look into it further, and understand what this review process was about that has allowed these individuals to be back on the streets.

TAPPER: That's right and earning salaries from your taxpayers.

You said flat-out the grand jury got it wrong. You said the decision left you -- quote -- "frustrated and exasperated." But I want to ask you, the medical examiner ruled this a homicide, not only because of the chokehold administered by officer Pantaleo, but also because of the pressure on his chest by the other officers who were given immunity.

As a New Yorker, do you feel comfortable with all of these officers still on the job?

MARK-VIVERITO: We have to -- again, this is part of the issue. Right?

It's not just about Pantaleo, although I know that in terms of this grand jury, all these other officers were granted immunity. So that's of concern as well. But the issue of the fact that nobody did anything, you see this for the minutes you're watching and all this pressure is being put on an individual that was absolutely doing very much nothing.

And nothing was being done. Nobody was trying to pull officers off, nobody was trying to have a level head at this moment. It just seemed to escalate and escalate. And obviously in a situation like this, which is such a minor issue, there should have been de-escalation going on, not escalation.

So, this is the part the conversations that we're having and the pressure that the city council is putting about, what is the level of training? I know there was a rollout and there has been a rollout of training that officers will receive. We want to know more details about that. The training has to happen expeditiously, has to happen immediately.

We want to see that being implemented. There's a lot of work that we have to do. And the manifestations that we see out on the street, people expressing that anger in a peaceful way by going to the streets, I think, is important. And I welcome that very much, as someone who understands that it is through this organizing and through the pressure that we're going to achieve change.

TAPPER: All right, but I'm not sure what retraining there needs to be. The NYPD patrol guide said and has said since 1993, don't use chokeholds.

MARK-VIVERITO: Yes, on the issue of chokeholds, I agree with you completely.

And actually, as a legislative body, we are looking at options. And there are colleagues that have put forth legislation that would deal specifically with these issues. And those are things that we are going to look at.

But we have oversight power. We have been extremely involved over the years in having oversight of the NYPD and demanding change. And the police-community relations, we know communities of color feel that they're not being respected. And that clearly is part of the work that we have to do.

And as a Latina, as someone who represents a community that's been impacted by aggressive policing, we will continue to put pressure in collaboration. We know the majority of cops are good cops. But we definitely need to make an example of those that are not good because a message needs to be sent that that will not be tolerated.

TAPPER: All right, Melissa Mark-Viverito, speaker of the New York City Council, thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it.

MARK-VIVERITO: Thank you.

TAPPER: Eric Garner's family continues to grieve his death. Will an internal investigation by the New York City Police Department bring that family any closure? Will they ever forgive officer Pantaleo?

I'll ask Eric Garner's daughter. She will join me next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

Continuing with our national lead right now, more protests already under way in downtown Chicago and Cleveland and Detroit, setting the stage for another night of demonstrations coast to coast, part of the growing outrage over the death of Eric Garner and the New York City grand jury's decision to not indict the police officer who put him in a fatal chokehold.

Live in New York, I want to go to Eric Garner's daughter, Erica Snipes Garner, and Benjamin Lawton, Eric Garner's cousin.

Thank you both so much for being here.

First of all, I'm so sorry for your loss. This is just such a horrific tragedy.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Setting the stage for another night of demonstrations, coast to coast, part of the growing outrage over the death of Eric Garner and a New York City grand jury's decision to not indict the police officer who put him in a fatal chokehold.

Live in New York, I want to go to Eric Garner's daughter, Erica Snipes Garner, and Benjamin Lawton, Eric Garner's cousin.

Thank you both so much for being here.

First of all, I'm so sorry for you loss. This is just such a horrific tragedy.

ERICA SNIPES GARNER, ERIC GARNER'S DAUGHTER: Thank you.

BENJAMIN LAWTON, ERIC GARNER'S COUSIN: Thank you.

GARNER: Thank you for having us.

TAPPER: Erica, beyond the incident and beyond the grand jury decision, Eric Garner was your dad. What do you want people to know about him?

GARNER: I just want them to know that his family loves him dearly and he was a family man. He wasn't a violent man. And, you know, we loved him. I love him. He was everything. You know, he was a great grandfather, a great uncle, a great cousin, a great everything -- he was everything -- you know?

So, it just -- I just want them to know that he want -- he won't want -- he wouldn't have wanted to die in vain. He wouldn't have wanted for people to go out and be angry and break stuff. He would want to promote peace and just get the word out like this got to end.

LAWTON: He would definitely want them to continue in a nonviolent approach to this protest. He would want justice to be served, but he would not want it to be done in a violent manner.

He wasn't a violent guy. He was a gentle bear. Everybody called him "Big E" and they called him that because he was a big guy. They never equated violence with my cousin. And he was -- he was a humble guy, always looking to help people.

For him to go and die this way and then for this grand jury not to indict this officer -- actually, I think all of the officers should have been indicted that was handling the situation. And I also --

TAPPER: Erica, also -- Erica, the Justice Department and the NYPD are looking into what happened. What do you want? You want him -- you want him fired? You want the officers brought up on civil rights charges? What would be justice to you?

GARNER: Justice to me is basically doing what's right. I mean, I want to be happy with him just losing his job or being suspended or still getting paid -- I would want him to face time in jail. All the officers and even the EMS workers, because those are the people that we depend on for our health for safety, for, you know, anything -- anything. And I have asthma. And I'm scared if I go -- if I call the ambulance and they just know who I am and just because they're mad or, you know, they're white race or whatever, they wouldn't want to help me.

I mean, it's very scary to have asthma and can't breathe.

TAPPER: Yes.

GARNER: I mean, you can talk, you can try to talk when you're aspirating and losing your breath, but it's just like -- you know, to lose your breath, somebody take your breath away from you is so horrible, terrible.

(CROSSTALK)

GARNER: And you're crying out for help, using your last, last, last breath. You're fighting for it. You're fighting for it. And nobody's helping -- nobody's around to help you breathe or --

LAWTON: And at that point, that's all you're trying to do. You're not struggling on any other count. You're trying to breathe.

GARNER: You're trying to breathe. And asthma -- me having asthma, I know when you're having an asthma attack, you're supposed to sit up. You're not supposed to be laying down because that makes it even worse. So, like, come on, come on --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I want to get to the EMS workers in a second, Erica. But just to make sure I understand, you want those officers and EMS workers to lose their jobs and go to jail, all of them?

GARNER: You just said that I --

TAPPER: I'm just asking --

(CROSSTALK)

GARNER: I didn't hear you.

TAPPER: I'm just trying to clarify. You think that the officers involved should all lose their jobs and all go to jail and -- is that right? Is that what you're saying?

GARNER: I didn't say all of them. But most of them -- like the ones that contributed to his death, the ones that was on his back -- I mean, yes, they should go to jail. They should testify and be able to tell me why -- give us something, something.

LAWTON: Be accountable for some reason.

GARNER: This court proceeding or the secret grand jury -- I'm not a lawyer, I'm not any of that. But I think -- I deserve to know what this grand jury heard.

LAWTON: Yes.

GARNER: What kind of evidence? LAWTON: What kind of evidence do you need?

GARNER: I mean, when the initial report came out for my father, it said he wasn't in distress. It was a false report. So if the grand jury seen it, what happened? Why?

And, why would you put that on a paper? So basically you had your story before getting in trouble. And you didn't even get in trouble because you knew you wasn't getting in trouble. It's just like these police officers and police -- you know, it's getting out of hand. It's getting out of hand. They need to stop.

TAPPER: Yes.

LAWTON: It's like they feel that they can just do whatever they want and they know that the government is going to circle the wagons for them and that they'll just go out, do their job, and when they get an opportunity to kill somebody and mostly black, they're going to get away with it. They don't have no fear that they have to be accountable for their actions on the street.

And this is what needs to change. They need to change the fact that officers are not being held accountable for wrongdoings.

So, yes, they're doing their job and it's a lot of stress and I respect that. They've got a dangerous job.

TAPPER: Right.

LAWTON: But they've got to have some accountability if they overstep their boundaries, because there are clear-cut boundaries of being a police officer. You can't just go out and harass people. You can't just go out and blatantly hurt people. And this is what they did. They killed my cousin, they murdered him.

GARNER: And then walked away like nothing happened.

LAWTON: Exactly, like nothing happened.

GARNER: And then even in the video, in the first video, the man waved his hand like, hi, I'm on video. Like, then you want to tell me that you're sorry? You want to tell my family that you were distraught? No, you weren't. In that video, you looked very happy.

LAWTON: You showed that you had --

GARNER: You looked very happy.

TAPPER: Yes.

GARNER: You had a smile on your face. And people who just went through something so traumatic and didn't mean to do anything, why are you smiling?

LAWTON: And you know what else? I've got a video of officer in the police car throwing his two fingers up when he heard the verdict, saying -- that's clear-cut saying, I'm glad this guy didn't have to pay. Because that means I can do the same thing he did and I will not have to pay. This is the message you're sending to all police officers across the country, not just New York City.

TAPPER: Yes.

LAWTON: That's wrong. We fear the police now. We should be --

GARNER: Yes.

LAWTON: -- wanting to call the police when we need help. But now, we're afraid to call the police when we need help --

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: Let me interrupt for one second. I want to continue this conversation. I have to take a quick break. We're going to come back with both of you.

LAWTON: OK.

TAPPER: The daughter and cousin of Eric Garner.

Stay with us. We'll be right back.

GARNER: OK.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to THE LEAD.

We're going to continue with our conversation with Erica Garner's -- Eric Garner's daughter, Erica Snipes Garner, and Benjamin Lawton, Eric Garner's cousin.

Thank you both for sticking around.

So, I want to talk about that video you were referring to, Erica, the second video that shows the EMS workers not really doing much of anything while your father lay on the ground. Now, we called to find out what happened to those EMTs. We were told all of them have returned to work, two are restricted --

LAWTON: Huh? Are you kidding me?

GARNER: I knew that. I've been following the blogs and looking online. And, yes, I knew they went back -- that's why I was asking, you know, what happened to them?

TAPPER: Yes.

GARNER: Why did you get your job back?

LAWTON: Yes.

TAPPER: And two of them are restricted to, quote, "non-direct" patient care assignments within the hospital. But all four have returned to work. And, obviously, they're being paid by the city --

GARNER: They're still getting paid. Doesn't matter what type of profession that you're doing right now, you could be at a computer desk right now. But you're still wrong, you still have a job and you're still getting paid and you killed somebody.

TAPPER: Have you heard at all from the police department or from emergency medical workers about what happened in July? Have any of them reached out to you or your family at all?

LAWTON: Really?

GARNER: No.

TAPPER: No one has?

GARNER: I can't really speak on my mother and grandmother -- but as far as me, no.

TAPPER: You said this is not about black and white, Erica. I wanted to ask, because your father's cousin pointed out that in his view, a lot of the victims of this police violence -- unnecessary police violence in his view are black. But I want to make sure I clarify the comment, because you said this yesterday on CNN, I think, that this isn't about black and white.

You don't think there's a racial dimension to this? Is that what you're saying?

GARNER: I think -- if we're going on racial things have been going on for decades, years. And for this to say, oh, this was a racially motivated or whatever -- it's been going on for years. They got this down (INAUDIBLE) and they was raised on this, these white people or these white officers or whatever. So saying directly that race this and race that, no. It's about the police and the brutality, about the stuff that they're doing to people. They keep on --

LAWTON: Civilians.

GARNER: They keep on killing black people, black people, and getting away with it, just getting away with it. And --

LAWTON: And it's about the police against anybody who's not a cop.

GARNER: It doesn't have to do with race. But when I say that it doesn't have -- nothing to -- it's not a black or white issue, it's about right and wrong.

LAWTON: Yes.

GARNER: It's a right and wrong issue. Black people been fighting for civil rights for decades, for decades. And every time they kill a cop -- I mean, anytime they kill a civilian, we're supposed to say, oh, it was racially motivated? Yes, in a sense, but it's just got to do with the way they was trained, the way the atmosphere in the police department. I read a quote today that something said about the cops, you know, go through training, go through, you know, the manuals or whatever, be trained.